Dealer's signature

[Reyth]

Aha.  Thank you!

[GameNeverOver]

But it is reasonable when the roulette device sellers are claiming that it's not illegal to use it because it doesn't affect the outcome.
What do you think?
But what really matters is not what I or you might think,but how the casinos are considering those devices.
If the legal or not depends from the manipulation (or not) of the outcomes,then someone who can roll the dice the way he/she wants (most of the times) he/she is a cheater and someone who is using a roulette computer he/she is not cheater because he/she is not influencing the results.
THIS IS QUITE A PARADOX,that's why there are minor and major "holes" inside the law.

I believe in what I see not what is written in the law books.

Ex. If pissing in public is prohibited with law but I see with my own eyes that everyone is pissing wherever they want (even in front of cops eyes) then i know that the law is actually bulls*** and not prohibiting pissing in public.
There are lots of examples like this one.

What I want to say is that I don't care what the judge said, but what I see on daily basis because on the streets the justice is different from that in the courts.

And from what I see I know that there is no casino in this world that will allow you to sit on the roulette table and use device in plain sight because they know that this thing might cost them thousands of dollars per spin that can easily get into millions per hour. See the bigger picture now?

[scepticus]

OOPS  !
Made a mistake  about the USA judgement . Ken Uston won the judgement but lost it on  an appeal .
I think though, there was one in Canada . As GNO says judgements and laws  are of little use if  people don't obey them. A pity Governments don't think about this before making any more laws .   

[Reyth]

Ya even if it was judged legal to break casino rules by using an electronic device, I would still disagree with that judgment simply because it is an unfair advantage that is generated artificially and that is not open to everyone.

[BlueAngel]

As GNO says judgements and laws  are of little use if  people don't obey them. A pity Governments don't think about this before making any more laws .   

There are only 2 ways to follow rules and regulations:

1) By force, make people fear the punishment.

2) Willingly because they respect the law.Why someone to respect it? Because he/she has ethics, moral values and principles.

Since not all of the world is the same, some fall into the first category ,while the rest on the second.
If the desire of someone is greater than his/her principles,ethics and moral values,then they could attempt to do anything as long as they could get away with it.
This leads to the conclusion that there are actually 2 criteria;

1) What it COULD be done

2) What it SHOULD be done

[Reyth]

Nice post!

I notice that casinos seem to be really good and finding the "what could be done" category of people...

[scepticus]

Why DO people break the law ?Blue Angel  .Largely , it is because they don't agree with it - for whatever reason.   In the UK the prisons are bursting to overflow   - they hold more prisoners than other comparable European nations . Are we Brits more into lawbreaking than other nations or is it that our laws are more illiberal than other nations ?  One thing is clear - you cannot impose your notion of morality on others - persuasion  is necessary . The problems of betting roulette is a cakewalk compared to the minefield of lawmaking- and lawbreaking. Let's stick to roulette  !

[Bebediktus]

I dunno.  Videos like this impress me.
Maybe that's not dealer signature but there is definitely something to what he is doing there...

Here is some answer to many things,- are for who do impression such videos, but are also theese, who do that or similar, everyday in casinos.
What you see in this video is not dealer signature, here is some trick.

But anyway - who do such trick must be enough experienced in all that....

[Ringmaster]

  Good Morning Esteemed Ambassadors, Colonels, Captains, Majors, Principals, Graduates, Cadets and Colleagues,
Well, if you are not there, you must be more important than I am, but I always understood my limitations.
So, As I spent some time as a chirpy chippy and cadet croupier in an underground, (in more ways than one) salon prive, in London, in the mid seventies I can tell you from learning, trying and bitter experience, that no croupier can spin, influence or conjure up a result within a chosen HALF of a roulette wheel on purpose or on command, not then, not now,not ever.
Forget about croupiers shooting pre-designated sectors.
God or the Devil, could not guarantee a win at roulette, and remember Einstein, (short chap, scratched his head about stuff, bit of a whiz at numbers?
He said “The only way to win at Roulette, was to steal chips off the table”
Let's look at that other thing you keep on about, DS/
That is entirely possible, with one proviso, it is an unconscious regularity that the dealer may produce in waves and troughs (on an post analyzed chart).
IMO the smart way to 'discover' a potential DS, would be to chart the CW spins as one signature chart, and the CCW spins as a separate chart.
Again, IMO the best hunting ground for potential signposts for DS would be a Rapid Roulette table where a 'live' dealer spins a mid weight teflon ball, with the punters arranged at individual terminals.
The regularity of the timed wager-spin-wager-spin cycle leads to repeat rhythm being maintained.
The inherent bonus is that the croupier does not have to think about or engage in payout arithmetic, chip buy-in, buy-out, and is already in a pressure-free constant frame of mind. Not looking for glamor or pizazz, here just DS please.
Later........Ringmaster.

 

[scepticus]

I have said before, Ringmaster that DS is BS ! So I agree with you that  a dealer cannot spin the winning number
any time of his choosing. 
In controlled conditions he MIGHT with a s-l-o-w wheel but not under real casino conditions. - just as a magician does but does anyone really believe that a magician does magical things ?
What some call DS is just random at work and , as I have said before, random can make fools of us all.
By the way The Wizard of Odds and Ed.Thorp , he of Blackjack fame , agree with us on this.( even if on nothing else ! ) ]Incidentally , there is no record in his writings of Einstein using" HIS" famous phrase though no probably he would agree with it.

[Real]

It's generally beyond the comprehension of the casual players.

Unless you guys have your own wheel and have a better understanding of the physics involved, dominant ball distribution, etc..., then you're simply not going to grasp how it's possible.

[scepticus]

It's generally beyond the comprehension of the casual players.

Unless you guys have your own wheel and have a better understanding of the physics involved, dominant ball distribution, etc..., then you're simply not going to grasp how it's possible.

I can understand how it would be POSSIBLE Real, I just don't believe it is possible without the use of an electronic device. Having your own wheel can help you practice but the casino doesn't allow you to spin their wheel does  it ? Hypothesis / theory is one thing but actually applying it for real is a different ball game altogether.( no pun intended )
 I have read quite a bit about AP and it's different approaches - online and by reading at least one book by an AP.so your continued sniping doesn't wash with me. Nor does your simplistic understanding about Probability Theory. I  have no qualifications in maths but that does not mean I cannot understand  maths  as it relates to gambling.
Your knowledge of wheels comes from your occupation and your knowledge of AP from your interest in it but ,apart from that, your knowledge of the maths is basic and so doesn't afford you the luxury of lecturing  method players .
I have asked you before to put your version in a Physics Forum for discussion there .You still have not done so .Why not if you claim that you actually profit from doing so . You don't even post what variant of AP you use.
So stop your silly posturing . I ,  for one, am not impressed.

[kav]

Just want to link two relevant topics to the thread:

• My view on playing roulette and dealers signature
• Can the Spinner control the Ball?
• speaking with a dealer

[kav]

I think this is a very interesting and useful video with practical advise on the subject of dealer's signature:

[MrPerfect.]

Nice video, Kav. If you add wheel/ball study to this information and control of timings ( ball, wheel speed adjustment) , you arrive to simplest method of play ever. 
   Player playing this way will realise when he should be playing , when to stop , when press hard.. ets.
    Sometimes it can have accuracy comparable or even better then vb.