### Author Topic: If Roulette Table Layout Different, Would There be an Advantage  (Read 562 times)

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#### Scarface

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##### If Roulette Table Layout Different, Would There be an Advantage
« on: March 11, 2018, 12:02:54 AM »
If the roulette betting table were different, could there be an advantage for the player?  The wheel is designed where there is basically an alternating chance of red/back, high/low, and odd/even.  Does this really matter??  Let's say the betting table was the same layout, but 1-18 we're all red numbers, and 19-36 we're all black.  That means you could bet dozen 3, and 2/3 of the black numbers would all be there.

What do you guys think.  Does layout matter?

Seems like the table is carefully designed to have an equal number of even bets on each half, as well as each dozen.  But columns are a different story.  One column of 12 numbers have 8 reds and 4 blacks...so 44.4% of reds are in a column that's pays 3 to 1.  This is either a flaw in design that could provide an Advantage, or it doesn't make a difference

#### scepticus

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##### Re: If Roulette Table Layout Different, Would There be an Advantage
« Reply #1 on: March 11, 2018, 12:47:48 AM »
The table reflects the numbers on the wheel. It is in it's current format to make it easier for the Bettor to find the numbers he wishes to bet . The colours of the numbers on the layout merely reflect the colour of the number on the wheel.The same goes for H/L and O/E .
Can you imagine the confusion that would ensue if the table was in the shape of the wheel and you were trying to place your bets ?
It is the numbers on the wheel that are cleverly designed to cause us difficulty.

#### heatmap

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##### Re: If Roulette Table Layout Different, Would There be an Advantage
« Reply #2 on: March 11, 2018, 01:04:59 AM »
I used to be a "hopper" hopping from table to table and the tables would have alternating layouts (I'm drunk So getting an explaination is not going to happen) and the tables next or close to each other would have a different layout and when you drink it's confusing.

#### mr j

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##### Re: If Roulette Table Layout Different, Would There be an Advantage
« Reply #3 on: March 11, 2018, 01:13:03 AM »
@heatmap >> Different layout means, one table the ball is spinning CW & the other table, the ball is spinning CWW.

Its not different per say, but the 1st and 3rd columns will be on different sides. Its funny when the relief person goes from one to the other table. Even they get confused.

Ken
« Last Edit: March 11, 2018, 01:31:35 AM by mr j »

#### Scarface

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##### Re: If Roulette Table Layout Different, Would There be an Advantage
« Reply #4 on: March 11, 2018, 01:19:01 AM »
But what if the wheel were the same, and the tables numbers 1-18 we're all red, and 19-36 all black.

#### MrPerfect.

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##### Re: If Roulette Table Layout Different, Would There be an Advantage
« Reply #5 on: March 11, 2018, 01:34:20 AM »
Only change that would be beneficial is terminal with togch screen for every player on the table. Would be nice to have " favourite bets" as well, more options for unit size...  like 1,2,3,4...till max. Balls with different colors for different material... and size printed on the ball would not be a bad idea as well.

#### scepticus

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##### Re: If Roulette Table Layout Different, Would There be an Advantage
« Reply #6 on: March 11, 2018, 01:58:20 AM »
Scarface
Then the casino would alter their odds.

#### Scarface

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##### Re: If Roulette Table Layout Different, Would There be an Advantage
« Reply #7 on: March 11, 2018, 03:05:25 AM »
Scarface
Then the casino would alter their odds.

Why would they need to alter the odds?  If numbers 1-18 we're all red, and 19-36 we're all black that's still 50/50.  But if this were true, then now 1-18 would be both low and red...and 19-36 would be both high and black.

Mathematically, making these changes shouldn't matter...the casino still has the edge.  But why is the wheel and the table designed so each half has a balance of 18 even/odd, high/low, red/black?

BUT, if it does make a difference, then couldn't there be a way to take advantage of the column bet?  The column bet is the only unbalanced bet on the table....8 reds and 4 blacks instead of 6 and 6.

#### Scarface

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##### Re: If Roulette Table Layout Different, Would There be an Advantage
« Reply #8 on: March 11, 2018, 03:22:16 AM »
Here's what I mean by changing the odds.  Let's say you are betting on 2 bets.  You bet Red and Column 1 (3,6,9...).  With this bet, you have 22 numbers covered

Now suppose you bet Black and Column 1.  With this bet, you have 26 numbers covered.

So, each wager is for 1 even bet, and 1 column bet...But you have a greater chance in getting a win with Black/Column 1 by 4 more numbers.

I can't think of any other bets where 2 chips can cover 26 numbers....With the exception of betting even and red which covers 28 numbers.  But betting even/red gives you only 8 chances to win, while betting black/Column 1 gives you 12 chances to win
« Last Edit: March 11, 2018, 03:41:51 AM by Scarface »

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#### dobbelsteen

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##### Re: If Roulette Table Layout Different, Would There be an Advantage
« Reply #9 on: March 11, 2018, 08:51:45 AM »

From mathematical point there is no difference how the numbers are distributed on the wheel. The table layout has also no influence on the outcomes of the roulette. The occurrence percentage for every number stay at 2,7%.Basic the roulette is a fair and honest number generator . There are wheel  and table players. The classic table does not match with the wheel. In two hundred years it is not changed.
I have designed the Dutch tables for the single and the double zero roulette.For all kind of players the Dutch tables have more possibilities and will give more pleasure. Rules and payouts are not changed and the profit for the casino is 2,7% and 5,3%.

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#### dobbelsteen

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##### Re: If Roulette Table Layout Different, Would There be an Advantage
« Reply #10 on: March 11, 2018, 08:56:13 AM »
more pictures

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#### scepticus

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##### Re: If Roulette Table Layout Different, Would There be an Advantage
« Reply #11 on: March 11, 2018, 11:12:17 AM »
scarface
If all the first 18 numbers were Red then by betting Low you would also be betting Red for free . Do you think that casinos would allow this ?
As to your other question as to how we could take advantage of a majority colour in Columns 2 and 3 . I have already suggested how this could be done. And been shot down by Real and Mike.( bad memory ? LOL ) They claimed that any 8 numbers has only an 8 in 37 chance though, strangely, they didn't explain why THEIR choice of X from 37 had a better than x from37 !

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#### scepticus

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##### Re: If Roulette Table Layout Different, Would There be an Advantage
« Reply #12 on: March 11, 2018, 11:14:07 AM »
Nice work Dobbelsteen but those of us used to the normal layout would find it a pain in the rectum .

#### Reyth

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##### Re: If Roulette Table Layout Different, Would There be an Advantage
« Reply #13 on: March 11, 2018, 01:43:49 PM »
One advantage of the wheel is that it is in the shape of a circle where the felt is not; i.e. 34 35 36 will never be in any way related with 0 like say 1 2 3 is related with 0 1 2 and 0 1 3.

Maybe this could be a advantage for the felt.  I have noticed that interrelated selections will tend to "corrupt" each other and since 34 35 36 is ONLY connected to 31 32 33, there is one less corrupting influence.

Not saying that this is objectively true but its only my observation and feeling about it.

What does "corrupting" mean?  The ideal ("pure") bet selection is one that simply has never gapped in observed history.  One by one, each selection will be observed to gap and this "corruption" process tends to happen "geographically" with interrelated selections.
« Last Edit: March 11, 2018, 01:50:34 PM by Reyth »

#### Scarface

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##### Re: If Roulette Table Layout Different, Would There be an Advantage
« Reply #14 on: March 11, 2018, 04:07:55 PM »
I agree this imbablance by design doesn't bring any mathematical advantages by itself.   But depending on what system/ progression one is playing it could help out.  If you are betting to parlay two reds back to back, 1 chip wins 4 betting red only.  But nearly 20% of back to back reds will be in column 1....so betting column 1 to parlay with 1 chip wins 9.  No mathematical advantage, but can be used with some bet selections