Superior

Author Topic: Intelligent Progression  (Read 3854 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Reyth

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4393
  • Thanked: 1615 times
Intelligent Progression
« on: February 27, 2018, 07:03:13 AM »


This progression is designed for EC's.  This diagram shows how to easily use Black and Red.  We start at the white "0" that is in the upper left.  When a Red hits we move downward one space, when a Black hits we move right one space.  The color shows our bet selection, and the numbers are how much we bet. 

This is guaranteed to win 20 units or bust out at 100; compare that to a Martingale where you will win 1 unit or bust out at -1023.  The chances of achieving this +20 unit win is 83.89%.

With the above instructions, this is a stand-alone system but we have the freedom to operate as we wish.  For instance, I just had a game where I rec'd 4 black hits in a row, using the progression 2,3,4,5.  The next bet calls for 4 units but instead of continuing, I just halted all betting and started over with a profit of +5 units.

Furthermore, the LOGIC behind this progression is truly deep and amazing.  If we can understand it, we can use it for any bet selection.  I guess this can be called a dynamic-progressive progression; i.e. a mixture of up as you lose AND down as you lose AND up as you win AND down as you win.

The 2 men that created this system were mathematicians and considered this progression to be optimized, as stated.  For some reason they felt that taking existing profit and risking it over a series of 10 mandatory bets to always achieve a +20 unit win, was optimal -- even if it resulted in a loss of 100 units in the attempt.

Commonly, we will encounter bets where we have have existing profits that are less than 20 units and the system pushes us onwards to risk that profit because we must achieve a 10 bet total to achieve a completed game, that being the only way to obtain the +20 units.  If this risk is early in the betting, I feel inclined to take the risk but as we come nearer to the 10th bet, I am not inclined to risk any profit at all.  Also, when the bet amount remains the same or lower (while in profit) I feel like I should quit.  I wonder if this will achieve better results than just pushing onward all the time...

Here is what I am trying right now.  When we first start, our bankroll is the "zero point".  Anytime we achieve our "zero point" OR any profit, we raise the "zero point" to the new profit (or keep it the same) and start over in the chart.  We can keep surfing this way as long as we want or just quit at +20 units.  THE RISK: If we achieve our "zero point" in the second column or row, instead of starting over on the chart, we can "go for it" and attempt to win dynamic profit.

What I have discovered is that there is no need to "suicide it"/all-or-nothing to gain the +20 units.  We can modify our risk by taking profit in multiple chunks. :)



Does anyone speak fluent Italian?  The reason is because all of the secrets of this method are written in that language.  This system is not a fixed progression as shown here but is really a series of dynamic ratios that then create the progression: number of bets, win goal, stop loss.  I would like to know what these ratios are so I can calculate them.  Can anyone at least point me to the site in Italian where these are revealed?

Qualcuno parla fluentemente italiano? Il motivo è perché tutti i segreti di questo metodo sono scritti in quella lingua. Questo è il sistema non è una progressione fissa come mostrato qui, ma è in realtà una serie di rapporti dinamici che poi creano la progressione: numero di scommesse, obiettivo di vittoria, obiettivo di perdita. Mi piacerebbe sapere quali sono questi rapporti in modo da poterli calcolare. Qualcuno può almeno indicarmi il sito in italiano dove questi vengono rivelati?



It may be possible to create a dynamic application of these ratios to always achieve a desired win amount in [X] # of bets, where the ratios are re-calculated as our session progresses and we always keep the 84% chance of success.

Combine the above with the ability to use other bet selections besides the EC's and we could easily have an HG like Dr. Talos. :)



Here is something I wrote years back about this system:

Well the progression is not separate from the betting system, I get the feeling that the bet amount is ALWAYS calculated with the number of bets remaining and their structure in mind.  It is very clear that the system will win by doing the following:

A) Initially finding a streak and betting very heavily and successively into it, using the profits to create a favorable betting millieu which increases the odds of success

OR

B) Successively retreating bet after bet until a streak is found and performing A

OR

C) Simply cornering the wheel with a single bet after having failed 9 times in a row with A & B

Basically, A & B is a combined system that takes 9 successive shots at finding a streak.  I heard someone say that the chances of bets lining up in bunches is greater than choppy bets but I have no idea how that even makes any sense, so instead, I think the key here is NINE SUCCESSIVE ATTEMPTS which means the odds must line up with 9 failures in a row which is where the 83.89% comes in. 

Looking at 18 stations and checking the percentage of hitting within the 9th bet is 99.75%.  C appears to be a last ditch effort to save everything in a single shot which is obviously used as a backup when things have gone wrong.

That's the only explanation I have.
« Last Edit: February 27, 2018, 10:52:08 AM by Reyth »
 
The following users thanked this post: kav, adonitimoni, Rourke, Iain, Herby, SugTips, valter, oaknshield, Optimistique

Dane

  • Mature Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 323
  • Thanked: 177 times
  • Gender: Male
Re: Intelligent Progression
« Reply #1 on: February 27, 2018, 10:27:09 AM »
Hello Reyth and thanks for sharing. For clarification: I suppose we could bet BLACK and move one space right after winning. After Red (losing) downward one space. Right?
How to move move after the green Zero? Downward?
And how is it possible to move downward from the bottom?
When we have reached the bottom to the right without hitting +20 or -100: Should we restart?
 
The following users thanked this post: Reyth, adonitimoni

Reyth

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4393
  • Thanked: 1615 times
Re: Intelligent Progression
« Reply #2 on: February 27, 2018, 10:45:55 AM »
Hello Reyth and thanks for sharing. For clarification: I suppose we could bet BLACK and move one space right after winning. After Red (losing) downward one space. Right?

Correct.  If a red appears we always move down one and if the black appears, we always move right one.

Quote
How to move move after the green Zero?

We should treat it as if "the other color" has hit and move accordingly.  This is because each appearance of the zero will eat away at the projected +20 profit.  Some have said that you can ignore it and just stay in the same place.

Quote
And how is it possible to move downward from the bottom?
When we have reached the bottom to the right without hitting +20 or -100: Should we restart?

If you move off any edge, you should be at +20 profit (or dang close!).  The reason for the imprecision is because the numbers are rounded for convenience (and practicality!) and thus the totals can be slightly off.

When we play straight through like this, it is a "fun" system that will lose on occasion.  The question is, how do we recoup that 5:1 loss?  This is why I am enjoying looking into alternate approaches which will make the chances of encountering a lost session much less.

The real secret here is the ratios that are actually used to make the progression.  If we discover those, we can make a truly great system! :D

Here is a couple of games with my modified approach where I won the +20 units but didn't have to go very deep in the progression to do it:

https://roulette-simulator.info/game/0de061ff930298eda9243fe9c909eb94

https://roulette-simulator.info/game/a796c2e10835c6e41a8084bd24ce1020

In these games my unit size is $30.
« Last Edit: February 27, 2018, 11:19:20 AM by Reyth »
 
The following users thanked this post: Dane, SugTips

Rourke

  • New
  • **
  • Posts: 115
  • Thanked: 27 times
  • Gender: Male
Re: Intelligent Progression
« Reply #3 on: February 27, 2018, 03:42:00 PM »
That's actually a pretty interesting and entertaining approach to even bets on the roulette table. Thumbs up :-)
 
The following users thanked this post: Reyth

Optimistique

  • New
  • **
  • Posts: 17
  • Thanked: 9 times
Re: Intelligent Progression
« Reply #4 on: February 27, 2018, 08:37:27 PM »

@Reyth

I found this from the Italian site.
Maybe it would help too

"PROGRESSION [/size]. [size=78%][/size][/color][/size]- A [size=78%][/size][/color][/size]lgebra[size=78%][/size][/color][/size] . - In the algebraic analysis we call [size=78%][/size][/color][/size]progression[size=78%][/size][/color][/size] a succession of a finite or infinite number of terms, which is constructed by means of a given law.[size=78%][/size][/color][/size]Arithmetic and geometric progressions are especially used .[size=78%][/size][/color]
[/size]Arithmetic progression . - It is called arithmetic progression or by difference a sequence:[size=78%][/size][/color]
[/size]of numbers such that the difference between a number and the one immediately preceding it is a constant date d , which is called the difference or also the reason of the progression. In other words we have:[size=78%][/size][/color]
[/size]Examples of arithmetic progressions can be easily constructed and are known in mathematics from the earliest antiquity. It is certain that in the Pythagorean school (about 500 BC) it was already observed that the vibration frequencies of a homogeneous string, stretched and fixed in two points, form an arithmetic progression.[size=78%][/size][/color]
[/size]The simplest case of such a progression is in fact offered by the natural series of numbers:[size=78%][/size][/color]
[/size]which constitutes an arithmetic (unlimited) progression of reason 1. A limited progression is instead formed that, for example, from the first 5 integers 1, 2, ..., 5. Likewise is an arithmetic progression the series:[size=78%][/size][/color]
[/size]of the even numbers and in general the series of successive multiples of a given number n . Numerous other examples could be given, since, as we have seen from the cases cited, it is enough to change the reason to obtain, starting from the same number, a new progression.[size=78%][/size][/color]
[/size]Arithmetic progressions enjoy some simple properties.[size=78%][/size][/color]
[/size]First of all: the n - th term of such a progression is obtained from the first, adding to it n - 1 times the reason. In symbols:[size=78%][/size][/color]
[/size]This relationship makes it possible to determine any of the four quantities a [size=78%][/size][/color][/size]1 , a n , n , dwhen three are given.An application of this relation is in the problem of the insertion of k medî arithmetic between two numbers a and b . This problem consists of inserting between two numbers a , b ( a < b) k numbers x 1 , x 2 , ..., x k so that:they form an arithmetic progression.The unknown reason must satisfy the equation b = a + ( k + 1) d , and then we have:It follows:Moreover: For a limited arithmetic progression, the sum of two terms whatever equidistant from the extremes is equal to the sum of the extremes themselves.From here follows the theorem easily: The sum of the first n terms in an arithmetic progression is given by the semisomma of the first and of the n -st term, multiplied by n .Geometric progression . - It is called geometric progression or by quotient a sequence:of numbers such that the quotient between a number and the one immediately preceding it is a constant number q , which is called the reason of the progression.Geometric progressions were known to Greek geometers, and indeed it can almost certainly be said that they were not even unknown to the fact that, in certain circumstances, the sum of an infinite number of quantities in geometric progression can give rise to a finite result. In fact, the well-known paradox of Zeno, consisting in the statement that it is impossible to pass from A to B , without passing through the middle point C of AB and then to the midpoint of the CB segment and so to infinity, leads directly to seek the sum of the infinite numbers (see series ):which constitute a geometric progression of reason = ?. Similarly, Democritus leads the calculation of the pyramid's volume to the sum:In modern mathematics the writing of a fraction in the form of a periodic decimal number is precisely to express it as the sum of infinite numbers constituting a geometric progression. Thus, for example, the numberyou can write:and this is equivalent to saying that it is:The properties of geometric progression are analogous to those of arithmetic progression. So we have the propositions:The term n- th of a geometric progression is equal to the product of the first term for the ( n - 1) -thest power of reason.In a limited geometric progression the product of two terms equidistant from extremes is equal to the product of extremes.Moreover: the product of the first n numbers of a geometric progression is given by the square root of the product of the first and the last term raised to the exponent n .For the sum s n of the first n terms we have instead, calling with a 1 the first term and with q the reason:formula in which if - 1 < q <1 can be made to stretch n to infinity, obtaining as the sum of all the terms of the geometric progression the quantity:The relationships between geometric progression and the arithmetic progression remain heightened by the following proposition (v. Logarithm ): Given a geometric progression whose first term is to 1 and whose reason is q , the sequence of numbers that is obtained by taking the logarithms of terms of it, constitutes an arithmetic progression, whose first term is given by log a 1 and whose reason is log q .In the particular case of geometric progression:taking the logarithms (in base 10) we obtain the arithmetic progression:Other types of progressions . - In the algebraic analysis we often consider, next to the arithmetic and geometric progressions , the harmonic progression , which is defined by the property that the inverse of its terms are in arithmetic progression.A generalization of the arithmetic progression occurs then in the arithmetic progressions of a higher order. It is said that a succession of numbers forms a second-order progression, if the second differences are constant for it, that is, if the differences in the differences between a term and its immediate precedent are constant.A simple example of the progression of the second order occurs in the succession of the squares of the integers:for which the series of raw differences is given by successive odd numbers:while the second differences have the constant value 2.The arithmetic progressions of higher order have some application in the calculation of finite differences and can be, for example, used to construct, by means of summing operations, the tables of the squares, of the cubes, ..., of the n -three powers of whole numbers."[size=78%]
« Last Edit: February 27, 2018, 09:00:04 PM by Optimistique »
 
The following users thanked this post: Reyth

mr j

  • Hero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 1039
  • Thanked: 329 times
  • Gender: Male
Re: Intelligent Progression
« Reply #5 on: February 27, 2018, 09:04:41 PM »
I cannot put intelligent AND progression in the same sentence. Sorry, dont ban me.

Ken
 
The following users thanked this post: Reyth

Reyth

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4393
  • Thanked: 1615 times
Re: Intelligent Progression
« Reply #6 on: February 28, 2018, 01:14:43 AM »
This progression though is definitely on a genius level.  In alot of ways it fits what Talos wants as a "workable Martingale" where very little is risked to achieve profit within a fixed number of bets.

Quote
I guess this can be called a dynamic-progressive progression; i.e. a mixture of up as you lose AND down as you lose AND up as you win AND down as you win.

I actually found someone that is selling this system and they have found a way to play on Dozens/Columns and Splits.  I have applied an untested version on Streets that performed very well; the only way I would lose is if I encountered a streak of 20 EC in a row, with a required bankroll of 1200 units.

When I tested it on Streets, I played 6 streets but for some reason this fellow played 10 splits instead of 9; if it was me I would only play 9 splits.

These two geniuses have found a way to apply the principles in Optimisque's post to create the ratios; I definitely need to find those.  Without knowing the specific calculations for each bet, I cannot design a custom progression that will win.

I found a site that is offering a free system and spreadsheet and I really like this quote:

Quote
And, among other things, the parameters of the Masaniello can be modified in the race, that is changing the prediction of the correct number of predictions, for example, from 7/10 to 9/12 and thus lengthening the progression (avoiding premature depletion of the box ).

Sports bookies have banned Italian players from using this method.

So I have found objective information about this progression that shows it can be adapted to the Talos methodology.

Here is a game I started out trying to play a single Dozen but quickly realized that the potential losses are too great and then switched to DS:

https://roulette-simulator.info/game/8c05df54569c9d8a1f7b0589afd9914f

In order to play a single Dozen I would need to customize the ratios.
« Last Edit: February 28, 2018, 03:29:15 AM by Reyth »
 
The following users thanked this post: mr j, adonitimoni, GIAJJENNO, Optimistique

Iain

  • New
  • **
  • Posts: 20
  • Thanked: 49 times
Re: Intelligent Progression
« Reply #7 on: February 28, 2018, 03:42:12 AM »
Here is a spreadsheet I put together to keep track of the progression.

I hope someone finds it useful.

Thanks Iain
 
The following users thanked this post: Reyth, Herby, Optimistique, bacalhauhost

Reyth

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4393
  • Thanked: 1615 times
Re: Intelligent Progression
« Reply #8 on: February 28, 2018, 03:56:25 AM »
It doesn't actually calculate, right?  I mean it just follows the progression in the OP, right?

I don't own a paid version of Office so I can't open it.

If anyone else has this issue, here is a manual spreadsheet where you simply move the cursor from cell to cell and click the top of the spreadsheet to see the last position of the cursor.
« Last Edit: February 28, 2018, 03:59:26 AM by Reyth »
 

Iain

  • New
  • **
  • Posts: 20
  • Thanked: 49 times
Re: Intelligent Progression
« Reply #9 on: February 28, 2018, 04:49:43 AM »
Reyth,

You aren't missing much. It does just follow the progression in the OP and highlights where you are. As far as I can see there is nothing to calculate. The numbers in the layout tells you how much to stake. Clicking a button for red/black is less prone to error, but doing it manually should be OK once you are used to it.

Thanks Iain
 
The following users thanked this post: Reyth

Rourke

  • New
  • **
  • Posts: 115
  • Thanked: 27 times
  • Gender: Male
Re: Intelligent Progression
« Reply #10 on: February 28, 2018, 06:38:10 AM »
Quote
In order to play a single Dozen I would need to customize the ratios.

Please keep us updated on this, Reyth :-)
 

Reyth

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4393
  • Thanked: 1615 times
Re: Intelligent Progression
« Reply #11 on: February 28, 2018, 06:46:24 AM »
Well so far, I don't know where to find the actual ratios but I can say that they are very valuable for what they are able to accomplish. :)
 

Mike

  • Great Contributor
  • *****
  • Posts: 910
  • Thanked: 187 times
Re: Intelligent Progression
« Reply #12 on: February 28, 2018, 07:54:14 AM »
I cannot put intelligent AND progression in the same sentence. Sorry, dont ban me.

But doesn't Turbo say you must use a progression to win using his hot number method?

And what about the Kelly progression? It's the mathematical optimum progression and beats flat betting hands down.
 

Reyth

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4393
  • Thanked: 1615 times
Re: Intelligent Progression
« Reply #13 on: February 28, 2018, 08:25:43 AM »
Hey thanks Mike for bringing up the Kelly, I was trying to remember that name because the Masaniello is alot like it but it is more conservative and entertains 5 options for each bet with the formula depending on the circumstances.  If I could just find those ratios, I know I could customize it for roulette.  Everything about it is in Italian! >.<
« Last Edit: February 28, 2018, 08:27:20 AM by Reyth »
 

kav

  • www.Roulette30.com
  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2236
  • Thanked: 1177 times
  • Gender: Male
Re: Intelligent Progression
« Reply #14 on: February 28, 2018, 08:30:04 AM »
Optimistique, thanks for your post.
Can you please re-post with better formatting?
Here is how:
https://forum.roulette30.com/index.php?topic=1441.0
https://forum.roulette30.com/index.php?topic=2040.0
 
The following users thanked this post: Optimistique