Author Topic: Building a system on finals.  (Read 2946 times)

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MickyP

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Re: Building a system on finals.
« Reply #15 on: January 08, 2018, 01:31:50 PM »
You've lost me Jesper. I really have no idea what your win 1 statement is about or your question on advantage. Will you please clarify so I can answer you properly. Thanks

dobbelsteen

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Re: Building a system on finals.
« Reply #16 on: January 08, 2018, 02:04:34 PM »
The finals 0 to 6 are 4 number bets and the finals7/8/9 are three number bets. The features of a 4 number bet are universal for all kinds of 4 number bets. Sleepers for more than 50 spin are not rare. This makes the final bets very risky. The DTOP for the finals is very large. Results are unpredictable.

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Horsewill

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Re: Building a system on finals.
« Reply #17 on: January 08, 2018, 06:25:12 PM »
Thanks to Palestis and MickyP for sharing their finals strategies.  I like to play the finals and find particularly interesting recently the strategy that Palestis posted that involved waiting for 2 of the same final to appear in 4 spins and then bet that final for 8 spins only. Because there are gaps in play where there are no bets, I started to test playing for a repeat of the last final that shows during those gaps only. When I play on a crowded table or alone in B & M casinos the dealers don't like it if I skip 4 or 5 or more spins. Below is a random session from a test of downloaded spins that illustrates the power that finals can have. Please note that whenever 2 finals occur within 4 spins I no longer play for a repeat, so generally you are only playing 4 numbers, seldom 8 numbers, very very rarely 12 numbers (3 finals) could occur, but I haven't seen it. Note that I missed a repeat of the "5s" five spins down because I was already betting the "4s." You can see in this particular 36 spin session I was able to catch 4 repeats, more typical is 1 or 2 repeats.

This is definitely not a HG, there are losing sessions, and profit more typically, (if there is such a thing), would be 30-50 units.

Palestis and MickyP, have you ever tested a similar strategy?

28
6
24
14 win 36
15
25
0
35 win 36
1
4 win 36
6
16 win 36
30
4
6 win 36
22
6
35
14
4 win 36
18
19
3
34 win 36
22
32 win 36
12 win 36
26
0
25
36
23
26 win 36
12
3
16 -12                win 360 - 164  196  units won

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MickyP

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Re: Building a system on finals.
« Reply #18 on: January 08, 2018, 06:30:03 PM »
Thanks for the input Dobbelsteen.

I noticed how long finals can go to sleep and the risk you refer to is with reference to playing one final at a time. This is why the active play is restricted to 9 spins and with only one final flat betting is possible.

I have sought to reduce the risk by playing two finals at a time, also for a limited number of spins (9). So far in the tests I have conducted the hit rate has been very good and the inspiration to continue developing the system remains.

Palestis method of tracking 38 spins then playing the least hit finals works. Tracking 38 spins at a live casino table is a long process and it is not always possible to join the table at the right time.

I'm looking at a system that you can get in and play for short periods at any time. The finals do create patterns but trying to find a worthy trigger or entry point to play is a daunting task. Playing two finals produces more frequent hits and thus allows an open entry point to the game.

Some triggers do actually work like Palestis xxy trigger but most trigger types are simply windows dressing for an approach. I have no trigger incorporated and at this point the game entry point is blind.

I agree that the results are unpredictable and that is the nemesis of all types of systems and strategies. We can not hide from the fact that finals tend to flock together for short bursts and sometimes for a long stretch. This trait can be exploited if approached correctly. Two finals in play is manageable both on the table and the bankroll you carry. The more finals you play simultaneously the faster the hits. I've noticed that there are always one or two finals that sleep for 18 plus spins. So we are potentially looking at two finals out of eight finals that need one appearance in 9 spins. I don't think the odds are too bad.

MickyP

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Re: Building a system on finals.
« Reply #19 on: January 08, 2018, 07:23:50 PM »
Hi Horsewill, welcome to the forum and thanks for posting.

This is my first attempt at creating a system from the finals and it's a work in progress at this stage.
Palestis has some amazing systems that are posted on the forum.

Your method of play is interesting but I could not follow your example very well.your first win is on final 4 and it's first appearance is the previous spin. When did you start betting on final 4? Will you repost the play example and indicate where you start betting?

As stated this is a work in progress so feel free to contribute or question any inclusions or changes made. Thanks again.

MickyP

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Re: Building a system on finals.
« Reply #20 on: January 08, 2018, 08:51:09 PM »
Palestis, I was reading the posts on this thread and the penny dropped on using quads, single streets and splits with finals bets that you suggested. I feel like such a dunce...lol

This is actually a vital piece of information when playing three plus finals at the same time. It's a game changer. Wow! I have work to do. You can look forward to an interesting post when I'm done crunching numbers.

Horsewill

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Re: Building a system on finals.
« Reply #21 on: January 08, 2018, 09:05:05 PM »
Hi MickyP

In response to your question, when I was testing, I treated every 36 spin session separately. So, to start the session, there aren't any series of 4 spins with 2 of the same finals, so  I am betting the finals of the last number that came up, when the 14 shows I was betting the "4s" because the 24 had previously appeared.

However, I was not betting the "5s" when the 25 appeared after the 15, because I am already betting the "4s" because the 14 & 24 had shown within 4 spins and I don't bet the finals of the last number spun when I am already betting a final based on "Palestis same 2 finals occurring  in 4 consecutive numbers". I attempt to bet as few numbers as possible. If you have any more questions or suggestions, let me know.

28  Loss
6   Loss
24  Loss
14 win 36
15  Loss
25  Loss
0   Loss
35 win 36
1   Loss
4 win 36

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sam41

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Re: Building a system on finals.
« Reply #22 on: January 08, 2018, 09:10:39 PM »
One of the systems I got from Carrie Woodfalk (as referenced in the Pattern Zero thread I started) was similar to this but I thought right away it was BS. Basically suggesting that numbers with the same digits would cluster. So I read this thread and am still confused - these are simply pockets on a wheel with numbers stuck to them. The wheel doesn't care or know that a certain digit should appear several times. The only way I can see why this works is because of where the numbers are on the wheel in relation to each other, but even that doesn't really work as groups of numbers are not known to trend together (which was the basis of the Pattern Zero theory which people here quickly rubbished).

It just feels like betting on random numbers to me...

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MickyP

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Re: Building a system on finals.
« Reply #23 on: January 08, 2018, 10:10:35 PM »
Sam41, I'm not familiar with Carrie Woodfalk. What I learnt about the finals comes mostly from this forum. Like everything, I ran a sequence of numbers and identified the finals then I researched a bit more and ran some more numbers just to identify the stated facts about the finals. I saw potential in creating a system based on the finals and this is the bundu bashing I'm doing right now. So far so good and I'm hoping for continued positive results.

If you consider it BS based on a system that maybe failed you; I'd suggest you do some homework to understand why you feel the way you do. Unfortunately the numbers don't lie but I have to agree with you that "random" is always at play.

Why this group of numbers and not any other groups of numbers? This specific group of numbers is easy to identify and play but most importantly they do tend to cluster and repeat within a short amount of spins. As I said, the numbers don't lie. Please test this fact from any reputable live spin data. Don't take my word for it; check and test it for yourself.

The randomness you refer to exists and I wouldn't  risk playing one set of finals due to this, even if it's flat betting. I have been testing two sets of finals and have had positive results thus far (6 to 8 numbers bet for 9 spins). I initially had it at 12 spins but 9 spins works just fine. I'm not into wanting to know why a number falls when it does or why a certain group of numbers will not appear for 40 spins. That is the nature of the game. The wheel has a degree of consistency to it. The numbers are always in the same place and the ball will always land in one of them. It's a closed circuit.

I will find out through due diligence and perseverance whether I'm barking up the wrong tree. If anything I am broadening my knowledge of the game at no cost.

palestis

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Re: Building a system on finals.
« Reply #24 on: January 09, 2018, 12:27:51 AM »
Palestis, I was reading the posts on this thread and the penny dropped on using quads, single streets and splits with finals bets that you suggested. I feel like such a dunce...lol

This is actually a vital piece of information when playing three plus finals at the same time. It's a game changer. Wow! I have work to do. You can look forward to an interesting post when I'm done crunching numbers.

That's the way I have been testing the finals for the  last 10 years.
I started by checking the 16 numbers that fit on the score board trying to find 4 missing finals.
Then I realized 16 numbers were too many as it was hard to find 4 missing finals.
Then I scaled it down to the last 12-13 numbers and then  I was looking for 3 missing final  that along with another final,  that was on the score board already,  were forming 2 quads.
And when that happens those finals automatically are combined in splits.
This worked out much better as there were many more betting opportunities. Because most of the  time the objective is achieved more frequently compared to many wasted winning opportunities.
However, a big red flag to this way of playing is if 2 or more finals keep on repeating,  creating 5 or more missing finals in 13+ spins.
This is a red flag. If you see 5 or more missing finals and it is obvious that 2 of them keep on repeating strop playing. it is very likely that either those abundant  finals will keep on repeating, or one or two already there will take their turn to keep on repeating. Leaving the missing finals still AWOL.
Though this is the biggest red flag, it will turn into a golden opportunity if you have a little patience.
Once the missing start repeating  2 times each, 2-3 of them will  saturate the score board with back to back appearances. There you can make a killing.
« Last Edit: January 09, 2018, 12:49:47 AM by palestis »

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palestis

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Re: Building a system on finals.
« Reply #25 on: January 09, 2018, 12:34:48 AM »
@ Horsewill
No I haven't tested it that way.
It looks like you keep on betting the same final (after it appeared twice ), even if it won already and brought a profit early in the betting.
Maybe the numbers you tested worked out well for this scenario, but if you stick with the same finals for a prolonged time, eventually they will significantly be delayed and there will be a lot wasted chips, taking away from other finals that win.
« Last Edit: January 09, 2018, 12:49:06 AM by palestis »

Jesper

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Re: Building a system on finals.
« Reply #26 on: January 09, 2018, 08:06:17 AM »
We can build the play with use of finals, in some way a fast an easy bet, on three or four numbers. What we should be aware of, it is no magic link between them they hit as any three or four number bet.  Every way we play win if the numbers we play hits, that just the simple truth.

I did some on final zero, got some hit, but the fact the bets were finals did not help, it was rather this number hit enough to go plus. If I check the numbers fallen, this was not the best choice.

MickyP

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Re: Building a system on finals.
« Reply #27 on: January 09, 2018, 08:23:45 AM »
We can build the play with use of finals, in some way a fast an easy bet, on three or four numbers. What we should be aware of, it is no magic link between them they hit as any three or four number bet.  Every way we play win if the numbers we play hits, that just the simple truth.

I did some on final zero, got some hit, but the fact the bets were finals did not help, it was rather this number hit enough to go plus. If I check the numbers fallen, this was not the best choice.

Will be interesting to learn how you made your bet selection to play with the tests you've conducted.

MickyP

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Re: Building a system on finals.
« Reply #28 on: January 09, 2018, 09:00:55 AM »
Palestis,  as always the info you provide is worth gold in my eyes. I didn't realise that you have been toying with finals for a decade already.
Contrary to what others may think I do not dispute the numbers and I would rather look for opportunities to exploit the numbers to my benefit.

I have been looking at pairing the finals for easy bet placement on splits, single streets and quads. What I'm trying to do is to reduce the finals to five groups. I will then run tests to see how many spins to a hit on average will be a viable approach.
Like most systems past spins normally dictate the bet selection but I'd like to minimise the dependency on spin history and focus rather on probability and variance. These are two big factors that drag so many systems into the mud. The ideal would be to make a bet selection based on all factors.I find the maths behind bet selection to be particularly intriguing.
The red flags you introduce in your game play help so much to curb unnecessary losses. I see them as an immediate response to changing conditions rather than using spin history to charter the way forward.
I'll carry on crunching the numbers with the guidelines you have provided. Thanks for your continued support. Much appreciated.

MickyP

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Re: Building a system on finals.
« Reply #29 on: January 09, 2018, 11:16:49 AM »
The idea of pairing finals adds a touch of randomness to a system dictated by rules. Here are the pairs I've come up with:
Note: Each pair is covered by 4 units; 1 unit on each split and where there is a single number it is covered with one unit. Bonus when it hits!

1st Pair:
0 - 10 - 20 - 30
3 - 13 - 23 - 33
4 splits covers this pairing.

2nd Pair
2 - 12 - 22 - 32
5 - 15 - 25 - 35
4 splits cover this pairing

3rd Pair
1 - 11 - 21 - 31
4 - 14 - 24 - 34
4 splits cover this pairing

4th Pair
6 - 16 - 26 - 36
9 - 19 - 29
3 splits and 1 straight up number

5th Pair
7 - 17 - 27
8 - 18 - 28
2 splits and 2 straight up numbers.

I've run a few tests playing one pairing at a time off the bat using the last spun number as an entry point and was not impressed with the results. I then tried playing two pairings as they appear on spin one and two. Because this is close to an EC bet, it faired very well with most hit coming in 4 or less spins. I'm not crazy about playing too many number due to runaway progressions. This may suit online players with small unit values.

The most I want to play is two finals at a time so I'll continue looking at all possible pairings that may arise in a game. I need to improve what I already have on the two finals method. I think the game entry point is a big factor that could make or break the play.
Suggestions are welcome.