Author Topic: Wheel Bias Testing Reports  (Read 2467 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

heatmap

• Mature Member
• Posts: 333
• Thanked: 152 times
Wheel Bias Testing Reports
« on: June 19, 2017, 04:58:50 AM »

www.cryptome.org/roulette-problem2.pdf

PREVIEW

Roulette Wheel Testing Report on Stages 3.2 and 3.3 of NWML/GBGB Project Proposal 1. Introduction This is a report on the findings of stages 3.2 and 3.3 of the project proposal submitted by NWML to GBGB on the 24 February 2005. 2. Background A number of individuals, most notably Michael Barnett of Survtech and Mark Howe of MH Technologies, claim to have developed roulette prediction devices that will provide the user with an advantage over the casino when gambling on roulette.

http://cryptome.org/roulette-problem1.pdf

PREVIEW

1. Introduction This is a report on the findings of stage 3.1 of the project proposal submitted by NWML to GBGB on the 24 February 2005. 2. Background It is understood that a roulette wheel can become “biased”, either through wear of the rim or tilting of the wheel, so that the ball will fall towards the centre at a reasonably predictable fixed area of the stationary part of the wheel (known as the “dropzone”). Any wheel will exhibit this “bias”if sufficiently tilted, but the necessary angle of tilt to cause this is not known. As NWML already owns calibrated digital tilt measuring devices (inclinometers) the following proposal was made to test for the effects of tilt on a wheel. ? Adjust the level of the wheel until there is no “bias”(i.e. thereisnoregular“dropzone”). ? Measure the angle of tilt, if any, of the wheel in this position, to determine whether simply levelling the wheel accurately would result in a lack of bias. ? Tiltthewheelfromthisposition,inatleastfourdifferentdirections,untilregular“drop zones”areproduced. ? Consider whether a spirit level is sufficiently accurate to determine whether an installed wheel will be biased, if simply levelling is found to be sufficient.

scepticus

• Hero Member
• Posts: 2586
• Thanked: 577 times
Re: Wheel Bias Testing Reports
« Reply #1 on: June 19, 2017, 02:45:16 PM »
It is not disputed that ALL roulette wheels may be biased . The argument is whether or not the particular  wheel  has a bias sufficient to be exploited.  If anyone  thinks that a casino operated by  a corporation is going to leave The Barn Door open so that a player can exploit a biased wheel then I think they are living in Alice in Wonderland territory . Wheels are checked daily by casino staff using a spirit level to ensure that there is no bias sufficient for exploitation.
Yes, AP theory is fun to explore but I think AP members exaggerate their prowess - and results.
Bebediktus says in one post that he wins little and in another that he is a Roulette Professional while Mr. Perfect claims to use the Physics of the Wheel but in another that he uses Intuitiion. He claims that using maths is useless yet he himself uses Maths .  As for Real he is here merely to tease. I am not aware of any  Physicist or Mathematician that supports AP theory as used in this forum -  and the AP gang have produced none.
We all need to accept that future winning numbers are unknown and so we can only make educated guesses as to what they will be.

heatmap

• Mature Member
• Posts: 333
• Thanked: 152 times
Re: Wheel Bias Testing Reports
« Reply #2 on: June 19, 2017, 03:08:31 PM »
@scepticus I take this report to have no real value. I agree with what you just said. He uses a maximum of like 25 spins per section and real evaluation of bias requires 10000 or more preferably 20000 spins in order to find bias. This guy says he had to reproduce his exact spins for 25 times every test meaning he spun so many times and didn't count them and they didn't make it into this report. This is simply here on this site because I want to show you the way that they rationalize, or the path these companies took in order to "prove" a wheel could be bias, in order to redefine the term "fair" in order to introduce a way of placing a mathematical dependence on the laws of roulette in each place it's in. Being "fair" allows the casinos to enforce it's "fairness" policy and allows them to rationalize using specific forces to manipulate the ball. I have looked again at TCS John Huxley wheels and have decided it's no longer a dumb wheel with no ability to alter the balls path. Directly in a patent from them it stated air can affect the path of the ball. They explain no more about how air might affect the ball, but as I've stated to you earlier @scepticus that I believe the casinos have implementeda way to levitate the ball with sound. Not the sounds directly but the air in between the sounds that moves the ball. This of course is just my belief. No proof per se just yet but like I keep saying I'll get it for you guys. BTW @scepticus you knew what I was talking about when I made the post about acoustic levitation when you compared it to an alien abduction. I think you know I might be right but that's just another unproven theory for now

Real

• Fighting the war on absurdity one foolish idea at a time.
• Hero Member
• Posts: 1693
• Thanked: 284 times
• Gender:
Re: Wheel Bias Testing Reports
« Reply #3 on: June 20, 2017, 04:50:32 AM »

This thread's getting a bit absurd.

1. The kind of biased being discussed above pertains to visual ballistics, not wheel bias related to biased numbers.
2. The bias discussed in the article pertains to a dominant ball drop.
3. Dominant ball drops occur when the wheel is off level, warped, poorly assmebled (such as certain deflectors placed to low.) Debris, and or even sticky spots/rough spots.
4. Leveling a wheel doesn't always correct a dominant ball drop.  As a matter of fact, it can make it worse.  The reason is because the level may be placed on the top of the wheel, rather than on the track.  And, the off level wheel may not be the cause of the dominant drop zone.
5. You can place the level on the track, and relevel it, but you may still make the probably worse, because you may still miss the part of the track that's still....OFF LEVEL.
6. Some casinos will level the table, assuming that it's simultaneously leveling the wheel.  Yes, there are some dumb people in maintenance and management as well.
7. After a busy weekend, many wheels become off level because of gamblers leaning on the table, and pushing the table.  It doesn't take much.
8. Self leveling wheels exist, and vb players love them.  It's because they tend to create dominant ball drops, and it helps lock them in place... because again, the leveling of the wheel bowl doesn't always level the track or the apron.
9. The apron, the spot on the track where the diamonds that deflect the ball are located also has a big effect on where the ball will drop.  It's virtually impossible to level this region of the wheel.  Any warping here has a big effect.
10. An off level wheel has no real effect on the numbers that will hit.  This urban legend is spread by people that don't much about the gaming device or the physics involved.  (People like Scepticus.)
11.  It doesn't require 10k spins to determine whether or not the computer in the article works.  As a matter of fact, the user could determine it's effectiveness in fewer than 300 spins if it utilizes a high enough edge.  The reason is because there's no longer 36 degrees of freedom being tested since there's just one predicted area of the wheel.  Therefore it takes far far fewer spins.  An extremely high and meaningful z score can be demonstrated in short order as a result.
12. Back in 1982 casino investigators were shocked to find that a visual ballistic team was successful at predicting which sector of the wheel the ball would land in almost 75% of the time.  The investigators only tested them for four spins.
14. There are some really dumb casino investigators as well.
15. Dealer's know very little about why or if a wheel is biased.  They're ordinary people, like your neighbors that merely went to dealing school.  And fyi...they don't teach biased wheels in dealer's school.  Most of them regret their job choices, and they likely dislike the casino more than you.
16. Pitbosses use to be dealer's.  They too aren't the brightest crayons in the box.  Oh..and they too usually hate their job.
17. I'm not sure as to why you guys are even debating the effectiveness of ballistic computers.  If you want to know whether or not they're effective, then all you have to do is read on the history of the wheel and various investigations.
18. Nobody is effecting the path of the ball with "sound."  It's beyond ludicrous to even suggest it.
19. There's no number thirteen, because the thread is absurd.

-Really
« Last Edit: June 20, 2017, 05:27:11 AM by Real »

The following users thanked this post: kav, thomasleor, Sheridan44, MrPerfect., All Day

MrPerfect.

• Hero Member
• Posts: 1915
• Thanked: 1026 times
Re: Wheel Bias Testing Reports
« Reply #4 on: June 20, 2017, 10:08:49 AM »
@Real, out of curiosity... did you ever vitnesed " perfect level wheel"?
I sou only ones one wheel that was demonstarting such a behavior that diamonds was hitting near equality,  but it still demonstrated 3 drop zones. Most common l see out there is 3 diamond active...

scepticus

• Hero Member
• Posts: 2586
• Thanked: 577 times
Re: Wheel Bias Testing Reports
« Reply #5 on: June 20, 2017, 02:54:30 PM »

Real
I have asked you a few times “If you are so confident in your version of  AP why don’t you post it  on a forum where Professional and Student Physicists discuss   matters dealing with Physics ?  “ I say it is because you are afraid to do so as it would reveal your ignorance of both Physics and Maths - just as you claim that forum members here are ignorant  about roulette because they don’t know about wheel manufacture . Strange as it may seem to you we don't need to know anything about wheel manufacture to bet on roulette. Your view that we do is absurd !
Why don’t you post your method in this forum so that the rest of us can have a look at it rather than send it only to those who express an interest ? After all , you may find some interest from some  who may even ask for your paid help in becoming a Roulette Professional !
As for  this thread , the authors are exploring Biased wheels and the Drop Zones these  can produce . Isn’t it obvious that this is only for the purpose of  determining a Prominent Drop Zone and  the possible section of the wheel that this favours ? Just how does a favoured section not contain numbers ?

You  claim to find a  biased wheel wherever you go -in all the casinos in the East Coast of the States for example . You claim too much . You must prove that the wheel is sufficiently biased to be capable of  exploitation . You are guilty of exaggeration -  and that is putting it mildly.

The following users thanked this post: kav

MrPerfect.

• Hero Member
• Posts: 1915
• Thanked: 1026 times
Re: Wheel Bias Testing Reports
« Reply #6 on: June 20, 2017, 03:17:19 PM »
Scepticus, there are no versions of AP. You are player or you are not. For a player everything is in front of his eyes in this game. Non players look somewhere else.
There is no point to show off, these who really wanna help are being helped in this and any other forum.
I already posted his method . It's all Ower the place in posts, even required literature and step by step how to learn.

The following users thanked this post: kav

Real

• Fighting the war on absurdity one foolish idea at a time.
• Hero Member
• Posts: 1693
• Thanked: 284 times
• Gender:
Re: Wheel Bias Testing Reports
« Reply #7 on: June 20, 2017, 04:23:04 PM »
Quote
Isn’t it obvious that this is only for the purpose of  determining a Prominent Drop Zone and  the possible section of the wheel that this favours ? Just how does a favoured section not contain numbers ?

Scepticus,

Why would a drop zone favor certain numbers or a section on the wheel?
« Last Edit: June 20, 2017, 04:27:56 PM by Real »

heatmap

• Mature Member
• Posts: 333
• Thanked: 152 times
Re: Wheel Bias Testing Reports
« Reply #8 on: June 20, 2017, 06:42:19 PM »

scepticus

• Hero Member
• Posts: 2586
• Thanked: 577 times
Re: Wheel Bias Testing Reports
« Reply #9 on: June 20, 2017, 07:58:51 PM »
Because you are trying to establish THE prominent drop zone of the particular wheel being studied.
From there you calculate the distances of winning numbers from that drop zone. Why bother about drop zones if it is not to help in determining the favoured section ? And favoured sections contain numbers , don’t they ?
So stick to the point Real. Do you deny that a wheel , though biased ,  must be  SUFFICIENTLY biased to be capable of exploitation ?

scepticus

• Hero Member
• Posts: 2586
• Thanked: 577 times
Re: Wheel Bias Testing Reports
« Reply #10 on: June 20, 2017, 08:02:12 PM »
Mr. Perfect
You say that you have posted Real's method all over the place.
Could you tell me where to find it in this forum ?
And wouldn't Real have asked you NOT to  share it ?
Thanks.

MrPerfect.

• Hero Member
• Posts: 1915
• Thanked: 1026 times
Re: Wheel Bias Testing Reports
« Reply #11 on: June 20, 2017, 08:41:29 PM »
Just copy- paste all my posts, separate by thema and you got yourself a book. It will be enough to start making money. You can throw away posts where l speak about systems, altroth these could probably be interesting as well.

Real

• Fighting the war on absurdity one foolish idea at a time.
• Hero Member
• Posts: 1693
• Thanked: 284 times
• Gender:
Re: Wheel Bias Testing Reports
« Reply #12 on: June 20, 2017, 09:42:31 PM »
Quote
From there you calculate the distances of winning numbers from that drop zone. Why bother about drop zones if it is not to help in determining the favoured section ? And favoured sections contain numbers , don’t they ?

Scepticus,

Why would a drop zone create a favored section of numbers on the wheel?

scepticus

• Hero Member
• Posts: 2586
• Thanked: 577 times
Re: Wheel Bias Testing Reports
« Reply #13 on: June 20, 2017, 10:38:37 PM »

Mind games again Real.
Answering  a Question with another question. !
Do you deny that even if a wheel is biased it needs to be SUFFICIENTLY biased to be capable of exploitation ?

scepticus

• Hero Member
• Posts: 2586
• Thanked: 577 times
Re: Wheel Bias Testing Reports
« Reply #14 on: June 20, 2017, 10:41:36 PM »

Mr Perfect
Not a good enough answer Mr. Perfect.
You claimed to have posted REAL'S book - not yours. . So WHERE in this forum did you post Real's book ?