# Roulette Forum

## Roulette Forum => Roulette Strategy Discussion => Topic started by: Reyth on December 22, 2016, 03:12:36 AM

Title: Talos_Dump
Post by: Reyth on December 22, 2016, 03:12:36 AM
Code: [Select]
`Just to let you know, the system do exist.  And, to be honest, I think there are more than one. The only problem is that you can't find a winning system on sale, for easy to understandable reasons.  I worked on mine for more than 25 years. I had lost a lot of money during the process, and I studied a lot of math. Roulette is not a probabilties game (you play too few shots for the rules of chances to be involved). It is just math, plain and simple.  So to avoid any further question, I will not explain the system (why I should?) and I will not sell it (I gain enough to have no need of selling it), so my meaning here is to push you all to keep your studies and your efforts straight towards the desired Eden. I repeat, it is real.  I had read a lot of interesting posts here. Some people look at the tree missing the forest, while other have a very "hippies" approach (magical relationship between numbers, power of the dealer, this sort of craps), so I encourage you to go back in matemathics and forget "hot" and "cold" numbers, or sectors, and handle just the money you got as a bankroll. That is the key. After all "Martingale" is a winnng system, if it wasn't for the table limit and the need of a huge bankroll to win a very small amount of money. I guess I already said too much.  Good work to all, and thank you for keeping this forum so amusing.(I am not an English mothertongue, so forgive my mistakes)I don't care if you believe it or not. You don't know me and I don't know you, so I cannot see the meaning of patting myself on the back with people that are completely strangers to me.  I wrote it for the good guys among you that are trying and sometime feels sad because they crash on a wall of bricks when their system fail, and they read, in places like this, they are chasing a unicorn. I would like to remember them that even human flight was impossible till someone did it. In the world there are two kinds of people, the ones who thinks impossible is just another word to say hard, and the ones who say 'I don't believe it' because they cannot stand they are wrong.  I will not explain my system because I can't understand why someone has to have for nothing what I spent a life to achieve. I do have enough curious during my game sessions, "discreetely" walking behind me in order to understand why I am not losing at the roulette, to ask for more.  My system gains 0,25 a shot on average, the bankroll needed is a lot less then 1000 units, and the longest game has been around 90 spins (I do my calculation without writing down outcomes, so cannot be accurate on that). The average game lasts five spins.I repeat, I don't care about your opinion. What I do care is to encourage someone in this chase. I am sure that anyone with a very good system doesn't share it. I played in Europe, in USA and in Australia, on boats and on land, and sometimes I saw people play with a system that looks like a winning one, and they had a confidence that I recognized (never a sign of impatience, not an eyebrown rised when a strange situation occurred on the wheel, like the same number six times in a row, and so on and so forth), so I am quite sure I am not the only one.  I studied Pointcarè, Riemann, and many more, then I found a well known system that was a good one. I worked hard to perfect it, and I did. End of story.  Now, because haters gonna hate, I will be amused by the next replies...You are the one that spit sentences on everyone else, I see.   I said, on average I gain 0.25 per spin, that means that in 4 spins I gain one unit. Who said 25 unit per spin? I play an average of two days a week (you know, I have a family and I love to spend time with them) and I stay at the casino for 8/10 hours each day. I eat, go to the bathroom, walk, grab a coffee... So playing time is around seven hours.  I play with machines (roulette tables are too slow) so I see 200 spin an hour, that means fifty units. Moltiply by 7 are 350 units. Machines allows 1, 2, or 5\$ units, so I think you can do the rest of the math.  I will became rich? I don't care. I have enough, now. If I'd found this in my twenties, probably I would move inside the casino, with a tent, but I am a lot older, so I am happy with this amount.The title of my post say everything: "A word of encouragment".  You have no clue about me lying or not. Your prejudice decided that I am a liar, an attention's grabber. This prejudice is because of your "knowledge" (I should write lack of knowledge).   A better attitude would be "because I don't know, I don't jugde", but it is too much to ask, I guess.  Your Prejudice is built on the fact that you never heard of a winning system, but is like believe that the earth is flat because is the common belief, and was the situation few centuries ago, despite the fact that some people already pointed out the truth (Eratostenus, like 2 millenia before).  Hard to believe, I know, but Dr Talos is not my real name. So what kind of pleasure I would have claiming something like that? I want to sell something? Nope. So?  If you have a winning system, a real one, would you give it away so easily, just to read compliments and clap of hands on a monitor? I don't think so, especially if you did work hard to find it. Sure, I could stay quiet, like I am sure many do, but I think a true seeker in a moment of despair can find some energy in my statement, and keep working.  I will no longer reply, I will not explain it, and I let people find what they want from this thread. I met a lot of people in my life so stupid to believe that what is between their ears is all that exists. So be it.   RouletteMan, you are medicine for me.   Are they behind the scam also called Roulette Physics? The people who sell a wonderful machine for several dozen thousands dollars, machine able to understand that the ball will drop in the wheel, in a sector with a number on top, that can be red or black or green, 100% sure?  Everything is clear, a blue sky, thank you. I was so pissed today, but now I can sleep with a smile.How much should be paid a real winning method? Let's say I will ask what I gain in two months, is this enough?   But you are right, if someone decide to sell it, there is nothing wrong. I think that nobody will do because you have to ask for a lot of cash. Sometimes you see people sell 100% winning systems for 10\$. They claim they get from the system the same amount in 3 minutes, so how can anyone fall in that trap?   I do use a progression, not as painful and aggressive like Martingale, but not everytime one hit close the game.As I said, "Martingale" is a winning system that defeats the house edge. Unfortunately, is unplayable... So, the task is to create a playable Martingale. Many tried: we have Reverse Martingale, Fibonacci, and so on. This is the path.   For my experience, any system that tries to predict outcome of future spins is not working, so you have to consider only math.You are funny.  Allows me to introduce you to a concept important: what you need is a practical solution, not a perfect solution. This way, theoretically unsolvable problem can be solved.Real, you keep saying I wanna sell something. I don't. I do not want to sell it no matter how much money you, or anyone else, can offer. And, If I do not sell, what make you think I will give it for free?  I don't ask for applause either. I want to give people some hope, based on my experience. My system won't last? Fine, that means that I will lose few thousand dollars. In the last for years (little less) thanks to it, I moved to US with my family, got an Investor Visa (you need 1M\$ for that, don't know if you are aware), and I think I can handle the math god fury on me...    I think you are missing the point. Mathematically, the same number can hit 10 times in a row. A very small chance, still could. Never happened, because is not a probability game, as I said in the first place. My approach to progression is quite unique, for what I see, and it works. Because I am not the most intelligent man in the world (wasting time with you is quite a demonstration of that) I think other did, in their very own way. So, for the seekers in this forum, my advise to keep trying is, I think, useful.   Roulette is a simple game with a small (compared to other games) house edge. We all know that. Is not the only game where you can beat the casino, and you can understand that just checking in which game you have limits and boundaries (blackjack and roulette). They (casinos) already found flaws, and in decades they fixed that. If my way of play became "popular" (selling to one person, just one, will be the end of it, you understand it, right?), they will change something to cut my system out.  Did I use enough logic to you?  Never underestimate reasons of others just because you are not in the position to handle their specific tasks. Being a consistent winner creates a whole new set of problems with casinos.To RouletteGhost AKA Sherlock Holmes.  A) scam artist who has nothing to sell? Like open a store with empty shelves.  B) this is the only forum I am in, and I did just few days ago after reading posts for quite few weeks, and found them amusing.  C) a rise? By who and for what? Did I ask for something? I keep saying "try harder and find your system". Is something so unacceptable for you, to look for hidden meaning and planned strategy?  I feel so sorry for you guys. How can you handle all this anger?   I hope you can take this seriously people believing in a God in the sky, or who votes Republicans. They are victims of a scam. Unless you are one of them, of course, if this is the case, everything is already explained.  Have a wonderful night.I see you all are looking for ideas, so here my little help.  This is a system very effective that I used some years ago. The reason I left it is simple: I cannot accept a system with a stop-loss criteria.  A perfect system must have some qualities in its structure, like easy to manage, no deep calculation needed, a reasonable bankroll, and a general good gameplay, with no choices to be made during the game.  So here the system, and the good and flaws of it, in my opinion. Feel free to use it, test it or improve it.The system tries to get advantage on repetitions. As you all know, in a full cycle (37 spins, or 38 in an american wheel) on average 2/3 of the numbers will be out, and 1/3 will not. We don’t know which numbers will be repeated, and how many times, but they will.  The system is played on straight numbers, and I’ll show you an actual play that took place in Atlantic City a three years ago, more or less.  This was the situation when I approached the table. A list of the last sorted numbers, from the oldest to the last one.24112535324      So I started playing with a single chip on all numbers from the one following the repeated one. The total is 5 numbers, or five chips, as I should say. Then the next one was21 play 6, balance -113 I hit, easily. Profit 25       Now the game is a single chip on 3 numbers (24-21-3)262321 so, with just three shots, another hit (is not always so easy… I included it to let you handle the idea before getting serious). I played a total of 12 chips for a profit of 24. Now still three numbers to play (26-23-21)14 (+4 chips played = balance -7)4 (+5 = -12)5 (+6 = -18)28 (+7 = -25)8 (+8 = -33)23 Profit 3. New start, I played 7 chips (21-14-4-5-28-8-23)16 (+8 = -15)21 Profit 21. New start, play 8 numbers)1 (+9 = -17)20 (+10 = -27)5 (-38)30 (-50)35 (-63)31 (-77)23 (I won 36, so my balance at this point is -41) My selection for the next bet is the same as before (numbers from 16 down to 23, for a total of 9 numbers) adding 1 to my bet, so I put 2 chips on every number. The total played is 18 chips, for a total balance of -59)0 (+20 = -79)31 Still not in positive, I am -7. New selection with just three numbers (23-0-31) with 3 chips on each. Total bet is 9 and the balance is now -16.31 straight repetition. I won 92 chips. The total for this session is 165.  Ok, is not always so good, as you can see for yourself. You can reach a multiplier of 25+ and a need for a huge bankroll (more than 1000 chips) so you are forced to a stop-loss.  This system taught me a great lesson: if a system let you gain a lot, it will cost you a lot. Every system who promises you to get more than the mere nominal chip is always a mirage. Sooner or later will put you upside down.  Sure, this method can let you have hundreds in minutes, but it is risky. It easy to track because every roulette table nowadays has the last sorted numbers visible on a screen, and there is no need of calculation, really. I had to remember just the total balance I have at the beginning of the game (I play on automatic wheels, because real tables are too slow) and that’s it.  I think it can be improved, sure I tried, then I jumped in something better and I left it. I hope you will enjoy it. As always, forgive me for my clumsy English.This is so true, Real. Human mind needs to see a pattern where there is not. I always say that there is no  reason in selecting numbers to play, or special combination that works as triggers (wait three blacks, then...) this is nonsense. If a system works, must do it with any random number you chose to bet.Previous outcomes has not business in future outcomes. You know that. You have only one road to follow in order to win: betting amount. The "perfect system" is the martingale, but unfortunately is impossible to play. Once you create a suitable martingale, you have your Holy Grail.Has never occurred more than 22 times the same single chance hit in a row. If you wait for it, you could consider the 23rd a sure winning. Is not. The possibility to be red or black, manque or pass is exactly as before. The only thing different is that after the outcome, they will correct the record.This is exactly why I no longer use it. Grants very huge winning, and some painful losses. Now, I completely abandoned selections of numbers to play, and I worked just with Progression.  This system can be used selecting twins or streets instead of straight numbers, works quite in the same way.I did, dobbelsteen, but I didn't get any of it. I do not understand the system and the idea behind it. I would love to understand it better, if you could help me...  So, if you are looking for my opinion, I have noneYou need a system that not relays on a magical winning combination. If you need your number to be hit, you are wandering in a deep dark wood. What I meant is that your system (in order to be HG) must win no matter the sequence of numbers the wheel sorts out. This is why I wrote that the recovery sometimes can be a relatively slow process, but overall the system end up winning (one unit).  You are not paying attention, I guess.   A single number can disappear for a long time, but who said I play a single number?  I guess you agree with me if I tell you that a simple chance can disappear for a less considerable amount of time, or a dozen can sleep for more than that but less than a straight number, and so on and so forth.  The trick is a "playable Martingale". I keep saying that, I know I am boring.  Let me clarify for you one more time. Suppose I am playing red with my progression. I win. Then, with the same outcomes, same list of numbers, I play black. The system must win as well, otherwise is not trustfully. That my point.You Reyth found what I discovered a long ago: fewer numbers your selection is, easiest your recovery, longer your game. The other side of the coin, is that your profit costs you long hours at the table. Overall, is a good rule, but brings you in a dead alley. If I have to invest big bankroll and huge amount of time to gain pennies, is better for me to find a job! ;]  A single number can be played with a slow progression that covers 153 spins with a total bankroll of 1510 units, and if you play the oldest number out (already late for more than 100 spin) you can win quite easily. Is it bullettproff? Is not, unfortunately, and your losses will be more than your winnings, so the nature of this games.How can you be covered for 920 spins? I guess one hit will not be enough.   The system you are talking about is "bullseye"?At the end of the first progressiom (92) you are negative 700, or so. How many hits do you need at level 2 and 3 to  recover? Seems, from your explanation, just once per level, and this cannot be. Please clarify to me.There is a point when the system is too far gone to consider a stop loss? And how much will it be? I ask this because from my point of view the bankroll is quite huge, and I saw numbers hit once in 300 spins and sleep again for a couple hundreds more spins. At that point will your progression be just too heavy?I give you my 2 cents of advice.  One of the flaws of this is that you put all your eggs in one basket. A single number can forget to hit for a long time, and mathematically speaking, nothing say that after the first hit your number must come more often than usual. For what I saw, can sit out for other 400 spins without problems.   Second, the recovery schedule is too fluctuant. Sometimes when hit you get a lot of profit, and sometimes just zero, or little more.   Third, you need a huge amount of money in order to play. When a system crave for more than 1000 units bankroll, my soul cries... Even if you won so far, it is herthbreaking put like 200/300 dollars in a single spin of a wheel.  Probably you can improve it a little, for example looking for the latecomer. And switch everytime you hit.  You can choose a less aggressive progression (the easiest one goes for 120 spins with a total negative balance of 493, and a max bet of 14).  I don't think this will change the substance of "bullseye", It will ever be a very risky system.I wrote all this in admiration of your efforts and your attitude. I love the enthusiasm you have when you approach a new idea, your discipline in testing and reporting, and I learned to know when you leave an idea to something new, like now with this one.how is mathematically speaking odds of a single number to miss for 249 spins?No, real, question is another. If your sistem gains 1 unit a game, and you can aspect that once in 918 you lose, if the system costs you like, so to speak, 356 units to cover that 249 spins, seems to me you have something in your hands. Am I wrong?Sorry for you. I respect the democracy of opinions but the tiranny of facts say to me that in the last 18 months I cashed an average of 22/25 thousand \$ a month with my system, so I respectfully don't care a bit what you Sapiens believe or know.  My question was because Reyth system (bullseye) make me work on the idea of a single number progression, so I just asked, politely.  As I sayd, I appreciated the answer.Thank you bluangel. I do not look for a new system. As I said, I was amused by the challenge to find a better solution than the one proposed by Reyth. I figure out a progression that last equivalent of 249 spins with a need for a single hit to be victorious, and the bankroll required of 355 units.   As each and every system I like, gains merely one unit a game, but the majority of games last few spins, so I asked For some math. If the system takes a loss every 900 games, grossly, means that I have a positive balance of 555 units.   If this is the true, it will be the second system in my personal portfolio (not really, because I didn't test this for more than a couple thousands spins, so so far it is just theoretical for me).  Any system that requires more than 1000 units as bankroll, will be discharged by me immediatly. Sorry for that.`
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: Reyth on December 22, 2016, 04:01:54 AM
Code: [Select]
`Ok real, some facts: I go to casinos for three/four days a week. I play around 8 hours a day, and I see grossly 600 spins, gaining around 1500/1800 \$ a day. My systems total bankroll is 950 units (never been close to that. The worst game touched a 590 units). For my basic bet, 3000\$.  You say that something that has never happen in the last 18 months (grossly my last 200 visits to casinos) will happen tomorrow, making me lose 3000\$. And, moreover, from tomorrow it will be a rule, and I will lose 3000\$ a day for the next year.  Are you joking?   I have no idea why you keep reading posts here and trying to put everyone down with your "unbeatable math". I don't care (already said that). You can believe what you want. If you are sure, let's make a bet. Bring in a casino 25000\$. I will do the same. I play my system for any reasonable amount of time you want. You fix the limits. If I win, I take your 25000\$ (without explaining you the system). If I bust, you take my money.  Deal?To blueangel:  Do you know how many things are against you in a casino? How many players try to understand the way you play, have many interruptions, technical difficulties, machines out of order for some time and such? If you are out for about 5000 units and they ask you to leave for changing tickets dispenser, or general maintenance, or cleaning, what you do with your system?  And about calculation, you really think to bring paper and pens? (many people does that. One brought even a laptop, once). Is not my way. I don't want to get noticed, for easily understandable reasons. I play enough to change money with a machine instead of a cashier, and always below 10000 so I will not sign any paper. I do my simple math in my mind, and I use a clicker to keep track of the number of spins occurred.   I had been throw out of a small casino in Slovenjia, once, a couple years ago. I will never do the same mistake again.I change often my target, so I need to stay away from home 3/4 days a week. I love Las Vegas for obvious reasons, and I do not trust online casinos (two reasons for this, you can easily guess both).I post here because many are really trying to beat the wheel. I was in the same situation not so long time ago. So I try to give inputs, suggestions. I will not give my system to anyone, free or for money. I wrote my fourth in a post called simple system, the top threes are with me, and written for my family, if something happens to me (my oldest son is 19, can take my place). What I wrote can give you the wrong idea. Two fully tested systems are written, the third, the one I am developing right now, is still only in my pads.  The system, profitable, that I do not use, has a need of a big bankroll, and sometimes the game can be too long for a marginal profit. The other, you can call HG is, well, Holy Grail, and is exactly what I dreamt of for something like 30 years.  Hope this clarifies a bit my position here.Yeah, Real, you did a very good job spotting me. You are such a laugh... I hope for you you do not play poker, with this "ability" you have.   What a loser.  Blueangel. No, they have nothing against paper and pen, it is me.   Perla is a very big casino in Slovenjia. The biggest, to say it all. I was playing in a small one called Diamond Club. And I choose that because was one of the few with an airball machine. For me, a winning session is: I insert 1000\$ in a machine (or change in chips at a table) and hours later I take 1500\$. And not occasionaly, but steadily and repeatously.   But now I know few things.  1) it is easy to win. Pick 18 number you easy get 130 hit out of 200. (Please show me that!)  2) even if you win a million dollar over a twenty years time frame, you should consider yourself a loser, because you will die and death will come in your grave with a roulette wheel making you lose for the eternity, just to balance odds.  Seems I wasted my time here. This will not happen again. I am heading to a casino, where I will be in the next four days, facing my destiny as a loser and crying when I cash my illusional winnings.  So long, guys.I will not answer to this post to any stupid rant as I get in other threads. This is just a cumulative answer for all the private messages I get these days.  Heres my thought on this game, and how I achieved my results, hoping you all can treasure it and get some good.In this game you see two possible roads to follow: predict numbers outcome and betting strategy.  Has been clear to me, after first ten years, that there is no way to predict anything. Numerology, wizardry, statistic are not helpful. I have seen a number hit 5 times in a row, and another one disappear for 478 spins. Red hit for 28 spins to get interrupted by a 0 then hit for more 14 spins... So, my first decision has been take out all this BS.  I worked on progressions. I guess I am too dumb and ignorant for deep math, but I also thought that some math geniouses (well, probably not as good as some people in here, though) approached the wheel and they surrended, so a full mathematical approach seems unlogical to pursue.I easy get emotional, so I couldn't accept a system too demanding in terms of high betting or huge bankroll. I couldn't see myself putting like 300 units on a spin wheel. I get no confort thinking that I have 90% of  chance to hit... So my systems always started with an expected balance of 2/300. I knew that developing the system I will find a need to multiply that. If I start higher, I will end near the impractical.I tried to be creative, putting ideas on the table and trying without prejudices whatsoever. Even if system would fail, some of it could be good.  After many years, putting toghether all this crumbs of experience, I figure out a way to manage progression in a bizarre way (by the way, a last advice. Because so many work and worked to find HG, a system too easy to plan, like betting the last sector, or add 1 when you hit, must be discarded right away. Other already tried that!).If your system win big, will lose big. If your system win one unit, you just have to figure out a way to recover from a very small amount in the bad streak. This is important.  In my opinion is not good to relay on a single event in order to to win. This single event could not happen for a very long time.  Hope this will help someone.Sorry Jefra I do not speak that language. I can say Hvala, dobre Jutro (I am not sure is even right this) and few more words.  I do not play even chances.Makes no sense.    If roulette is a random game, what's the meaning of changing a random element of it accordingly to the people playing.  If the wheel is biased, and the outcome already determined by the overall betting, what's the meaning of this change you are talking about?  I wonder what kind of answer you whould have give if someone stated what you wrote in your last post.I respect your "knowledge" of math and the game, I absolutely do not like your attitude, and your way to consider a fool everyone is not on your side.  Remember me of Aristoteles, who said that women had fewer teeth than men, as natural proof of being lesser individuals, and despite he has been married twice, never asked to one of them to open the mouth to allow him to count their teeth...So...  Checking outcomes to identify a biased or fallacious wheel, then look at the ball spinning around the wheel to identify a sector where it will most likely end its run, it is called science.  On the other hand, waiting for a situation to occur, a situation that statistically happens one time every two spins, and studying a progression that allows you to wait 20 spins to hit, it is called luck.Real, your logic makes no sense. I understand you have something to sell, but your way to repeat your mantra (gambler's fallacy and such) is quite annoying.  If someone has a system that will eventually fail, I guess he will find out by himself.   Every thread here starts with an idea, then you jump in with your mantra, repeating over and over your point of view. We got it. I assure you. We are dreamers and you are a scientist, please proceed.  What's your purpose? Raising yourself downgrading others? If you could just spend your time collecting money, as you should do as a Professional Gambler, it will be great. Let people play and try their way, they are big enough, and you are making a fool of yourself.  If you can not build something, at least avoid to destroy other people work. Be respectful, be tolerant, be wiser. Your way is not the only way, just one of many. You and your friends are bad weed in a wonderful garden. It is so frustrating your negative attitude, I cannot even word it.  Do you know how many impossible things has been done while other were screaming "cannot be done!"? And, finally, the sentence about the inutility to expect a different result from similar starting point is absurd. In science, you always pursue a different result from a single starting point, with small variations. People here do experiments trying to find a result, working with numbers, progressions, deduction and such. More are closer than they think, actually, but the last step is the hardest, it is said.Forgive me for this illiterate rant, i'd love to be able to write a better English.so, explain me why one of my post his no more visible.  Several days ago, I said that the effort Real put throwing s*** to anyone made me suspicious. I said he have somehing to sell, and wants everyone to fail just to sell his system/machine/whatever.  Real said no, obviously. He is in a sacred mission of save all of us from our mistakes.  Then, today, he reavealed himself promoting a site where they sell machines to beat the Wheel. I put a reply calling him good as a two dollar bill. My reply is no more there!  So, I hope this thread will last, so anyone get to know what his game is.  I don't know if he handle this forum, or else. I keep saying to all of you: go with your effort to beat the wheel, and ignore this "person".If there is someone who puts negativity in here is Real! He lied, and I just pointed it out.  He accused me of lying, of scam, and he said I was a fake profile of someone else. I didn't saw you putting shields to cover me.  I respect your work here, and your attitude, but this guy and his friends crossed the river many times, and just because they have to sell their junk (if wasn't so, junk I mean, they will spend time getting money from casinos, not from people).  Mine is a winning system, and I will never sell, and never reveal outside my family. People here works together to figure out a system or at least a strategy that works. This is good, and everyone should encourage this. What is the meaning of get annoyed by Real or his friends?  If you see what has happen lately, you will see less posts and less idea, because I thnk people is getting sick of been treated like fools or idiots, and quit working at open air, sharing ideas. It was supposed to be so? I don't think so.  Anyway, I said mine. Forgive me for this rant. I will out for 4 days (my weekly casino trip) so I will not be able to follow this forum or just occasionally. I am curious to see what people think.Sorry blueangel you are wrong.  I don't wait for any sleepers or missing numbers. I start playing without any observation whatsoever, as soon as I reach the casino. I don't think someone can predict outcomes, so I work just with progression.  I play with 1\$ chips, because hypothetically this system can go high as little more than 1000 units (if this happens when you play with 5\$ chips you have to collect more than 7000\$, and this bring employees to register your name for receiving payment, something I do not want.  97% of games ends in the first 14 spins, and almost 70% in first fives. Usually I do not need to put more than 300\$ dollar for every session, and after two/three hours I take a break.  For my system to work, I need that I hit a number every 60 numbers played (means I don't have the same amount of numbers to play at every spin). I have 256 spins to pursue that average. When the ratio 1/60 his reached, my system is in profit.  Hope this helps.As I said, I found it, and I will never explain to anyone.  I wrote it down for my daughter, so if something happens to me, she could have it when she will be old enough (now she is 5). No one of my friends or relatives will have.  I tried once to explain it to my wife, but after a couple of minutes she watched me confused and said: "Are you kidding? I don't understand a thing of what you are saying", so now stays with me.  In the last years, I lost some games, or for malfunction of the roulette (airball machines) that closed down while I was in a game, and once because I had the urgency to go to the bathroom. The system, as itself, never failed.  I started with .25\$ chips, and now I play 3\$. My next step is 5\$ then 10\$. No more than that, there is no use and could be dangerous in a variety of ways.  Once a guy at the casino offered me 20.000\$ to explain my system (I played for a week there, and every day he kept an eye on me). A mistake I will never do again. Maximus is two days in a row.  I play 8 hrs a day, 2/3 days a week. I do not work, because I do not need to.  The worst part of a winning system is the boredom. Stays there hours doing basically nothing is boring. Deadly boring. And around you there are a lot of distractions. So you have to build your discipline, and stick to it playing at roulette no matter what. At the end, you can use your winnings (part of them) to enjoy yourself. I did in my prime, now I walk away as soon as I cash my ticket.  My daily goal is 1000\$, sometime I quit a little before when I am tired. Mostly, I stick to it. My final goal is 3000\$ a day for two days a week. Not enough to became rich, but I am not in that kind of mind setting.  By the way, I don't care if you believe it or not. I post here with open hearth and no second meaning whatsoever.Kav, he implied I am a liar, I implied he is an idiot.  I have no problems. Every time I pocket my money, I think of people like him, unable to accept what they cannot understand or have. They protect themselves saying is not possible because they cannot stand that they aren't able to get it.  In the last 2 years and a half I got more than 400.000\$, do you think his opinion is somehow relevant to me. He can keeps is opinion while I keep my money and my system. Win-win...  The fact is that I am playing right now, and I get bored, so this is a distraction.   Anyway, because of the question in this thread, I gave my answer. Simple and straightforward. Some users of this site asked me privately and politely informations about my system, and they get some. Not enough to solve the riddle (unless they are smart, devoted and analyze every hint I gave them) but something to work with.   I have no intention to sell my system, and sure I will not reveal it for free (25 years of work cannot be wasted). I think there is more than 1 winning system, and I am sure who is in the same position as me decided to do the same: keep it secret without exceptions. Probably I am the dumbest of them all, wasting my time in a forum like this one, with people so shortminded.  Bebediktus, my dream should be a big one, because allowed me to move to US, grant a Visa, live in in a big house (rented, not enough credit history to start a mortgage). Well, after all has been said that if you work hard on your dreams they became reality. Yeah, I know, even these words of wisdom are fool's gold.I guess is OT, but because you asked, I reply. I am here to encourage you all to keep trying in your search of the HG. This was in fact my first post here, and I believe in it since.   So many people keeps saying the roulette cannot be beaten, I say the opposite. If they are legit, I am too.`
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: Reyth on December 22, 2016, 04:04:56 AM
Code: [Select]
` How much bankroll do you need? In theory, 1400 units. In my experience never gone even close to that. My record is around 450. But It is good to have some margins.How many numbers you bet? Depends. Changes during the game.Did the game ends with the first hit? Only if hits in the firsts spins. Sometimes I need 2 hits, sometimes five…What the average profit? Each and every game ends with a profit from 1 to 9 units. The average profit, because games can last 1 spin while other 30 or so, is around .30Do you need a “magical” combination in order to win? Not at all. All is needed is that I hit an average of 1 every 60 numbers played (or better). As soon as this threshold is reached, the game is won. Has happen I had to wait more than 180 numbers played before the first hit, then in the next 15 spins or so, with three more hit, the game was over.How you choose numbers to play? I use a system to avoid any mistake, and to fasten the game. There is no a better pattern or a best or worst choice, the important is the total numbers played, in the way the system asks for.How many spins your system stands? It can go almost 260 spins. The longest game I experienced is 73 spins, and the second worst around 50. The average game last 4 spins. During the day 80% of games are from 1 spins to 12.Do you sell it? No, I don’t.Why? Because I don’t want to. I make enough money with it to be satisfied, and if I had to put a price tag, that should be quite high.Are calculations complicated? Not really. In the vast majority of games I can compute mentally, using a clicker to keep track of spins. When the game becomes longer, let say more than 20 spins, you should keep track of balance, but is not complicated at all.Do you cheat the wheel? No, in any way. I use math.So, what’s the philosophy of the system? I think progression is the key. I don’t think there is a way to predict what numbers will be next, or sector or street or… Past spins have no influence, the dealer have not, the cabalistic aspect of numbers… BS. Even statistic has no matter in few spins, because it works on large amount of numbers.How you found it? I tried and tried tons of systems, changing approach every time that I felt stuck and cannot improve further what I had. I guess I have been lucky finding an unusual way to build a progression. As a matter of fact, I never seen a progression even close as the one I use.Why you are not rich? In an average day, you can play 8/10 hours, with frequent stops. Most of all, because looking at a wheel is boring (I usually browse the internet meanwhile, because you don’t need much attention in the first 10 spins, or chatting or using Facebook etc. etc.). The airball machine, that is faster than live roulette (close to 1 spin every fifty seconds) allows me to profit 30/40 units hr. I play with 3\$ chips, so my day ends when I get 1000\$. That goes two/three days a week. With a 3\$ unit chip, for 1400 bankroll needed, I bring with me 4500\$. My plan is move to 5\$ then 10\$, so to reach a profit of 3000\$ a day, or 6000\$ a week, or 24000\$ a month, “working” only two days a week. Last year, for example, I played for long sessions of 12 and 14 days in a row, in Atlantic City and Las Vegas. Not a pleasureful experience, except for money. Back to math. To became rich you should play something like 4 days a week, with a 20\$ units, so you have to bring 30000\$ cash in the casino (go figure) and maybe redeem 10000\$ over and over… You get noticed, not only by casino’s employees: thieves, gold diggers, people in needs, other gamblers… I don’t want that!Are you the only winner? I don’t think so. I played in hundreds places, from US to Australia, from Norway to Spain, on cruise ships and so on, and I met at least other two guys that seemed to have a good system. You can say this because they didn’t celebrate huge winnings, they were very focused on the game, and I “recognized” my same behaviors (no rewards cards, no chatting with others, no emotional display of any sort).Did you ever lost? Three times. Once I had to go to the bathroom because of oysters… yeah, enjoy the buffet, they say. Another was because they had to clean the area where the roulette was located. They gave me a warning of three spins then they closed the machine. I was out of like 20 units, so not a big deal. Third, and most painful, in the middle of a long game, I was out around 150 units, and my sister called me at the phone. My mother was no more, and I left without caring of the systems or the money.Do you play online? No. I think it is too easy to rig results, and secondarily I don’t want to be noticed. I change often casinos, and I cannot stick to an online one.Did you ever told someone the system. I wrote the system for my family, if something happens to me. Unfortunately my daughter is too young to learn it, and my wife cannot grab it. I had sometimes the temptation, for vanity or because someone needed so badly, but I refrained myself. I thought to teach it to my brother, so he could protect my family if something unexpected happens to me. This is my biggest concern. I am not in a good relationship with him, and I do not trust him 100%, and I don’t think he got the right attitude to play the system at the casino, because lacks of discipline.Something more to add? I’m just a nickname on a monitor, and people reading it are nicknames too. I don’t want to impress females just to bring them to me, so there is no use to fake something. I don’t care if people believes it or not. I have been called liar and attention seeker, dreamer or scammer. I get sad reading these statements, because they do not understand my position, and moreover they reveal their short sight. Unfortunately my English is not good enough to express myself completely, and I am sure I made a lot of mistakes here, but I hope someone will be encouraged to find his own way to his HG.Jake, consider that I was living in Europe till few years ago, and my English was nothing back then. I never heard of the website you are talking to.  I made my progression entirely from scratch.   I didn't figure it out in a blast, though. The initial draft was different, then I adjusted it practicing and playing, when my mind figure out a way to improve it. Not all improvements has been for the better, so sometimes you have to go back to basic, but what I have now is untouched since 2014.  Ever attempt I made to improve it further has been unsuccessful, so I guess I reached the top of it.I think the first year has been just recovery, for all the money I spent previously, in systems and strategies that didn't work.   In almost thirty years of attempts, I had my share of desperation and anger. Many times I thrown away pads and notes, with thousands and thousand of outcomes on which I tested systems that lasted less than 2 hours in a real play.  Is not easy to win even with a winning system. As I said, boredom is a potent killer. You need discipline and self control. These are characteristics my brother doesn't have. I understand is quite sad as a statement, but this is it.   He is an honest man, but is not a player in any sense, and the system for him is just a waste. The defeat is, primarily, on the player.I will not share. Let's say you want to start a business, a solid and established franchising. You have to pay a quote, and initial setup, and a slice of your profit, or a monthly fee. I thought of it for some time. Put together a bunch of people and sweep casinos, getting a share of their work and all of mine. I thought asking like 50000\$, give some training, and when the player is able to walk by itself, start with a new one (I guess it takes less then 30 minutes to learn it, and maybe a day or two to handle at the casino).  My problem was how to control that. I know how much the system profit, but I cannot keep the system with the initial team. They can spread it all over the world, and make it worthless.  Honestly, I don't think the casino can stop it. I don't reach limits, I don't cheat, I don't use any device, is just simple math, but the accessibility to a casino floor is always discretional, so they can kick you out without reasons. So I decided to keep it to me exclusively.  As you can see, there are issues. I thought to keep with me and just my wife, or my brother, as a safety net, but I don't have the right person close to me. Anyway, I wrote it down as a legacy for my family, and they will have it if something will happen to me. I am confident that someone will be able to use it. I am not even 50, so I hope I got some time :]With the future money, I will do some investment. For now, I spend most of the winning moving to US, buy a small business to get a Visa, and I just recently moved to a new bigger house. As I said, I am not really interested in becoming rich. Never been a dream of mine. I like money, I don't like to be ruled by greed.Sorry, your guess is wrong. As I said, I play different amounts of numbers as the game progress. Playing one number? I have been already dead for boredom...  I moved recently from 1\$ chips to 3\$ chips because I reached one of my planned benchmarks (100.000 real spins). When I will cross the 150.000, I will move to 5\$, and crossed 200.000 spins played, I will land on a 10\$ chips, my final goal.   When, I said when, not if, my system will fall, I will lose less than 0.1% of what I get so far. I don't think I will lose often though. Moreover, I said that vast majority of games ends in few spins, and this cannot be with a single number bet.  You are not paying attention...I can't see the point of warning me on a system I am using since 2014, pocketing a lot of money since thenI have a way to select what to bet, in order to avoid confusion or indecision. If system tell me to play a couple of dozens (for example, is not the way how it works...) I have a pattern to chose which dozens are to use. What you choose doesn't affect the final result, as long as you bet two dozens!  This "pattern" helped me testing the system without tweaking results. I tried different patterns with the same spin outcomes, and worked exactly the same.  A winning system must work in every situation, or is not a winning system. If you need to check late, hot, or lucky numbers, is not a winning system, it is a strategy.  Is good, though, after many months after my last visit, see that someone is still working on my clues. That's exactly what I hoped for, telling you that is possible to win, consistently. I understand that is not easy to connect all the dots, but is worthwhile.Jerome, read with more attention my Q&A. My system can hold for more than 260 spins, and I never play a single number. At spin number 20 I have already played almost 200 numbers. Important is the ratio of the hit (1 out of 60) I get.Jerome, At spin number 10 I already played 228 numbers, for an outstanding balance of 93 pieces. Yes, I need several hit to recover and be in profit, but as you can understand with the number I show is not so difficult to get, or too costly.  For example at spin number 10 I know I need 4 hits in a short period, or five in a longer one. I assure you it is quite rare reach spin number 10 without any hit!  When you hit, you play less numbers, and when you don't, the total numbers played tend to increase. The apparent contradiction is easy to explain. I have been asked how many number without hitting I can sustain, and I showed that. In the vast majority of games I hit something, and this will change completely the total sum of number played, as my outstanding balance at that moment. If you read carefully you can see it quite easily from my basic explanation posted earlier.  Impossible to recover? I need four hits, and several spin to obtain that, and after every hit I reduce my total bet so gaining more "time" to fill my 1/60 ratio.  About what I select, I already wrote that I have a pattern that I follow, so to not be confused or distracted. My preferred pattern is following the last number, sometimes I use another pattern, because at the end it doesn't matter, as I already explained.  Important is how many numbers following a fixed progression bet. That progression is the important part, or "the trap" as Jerome says...  What I want you to understand is my simple advice: You can not predict what number we will come out. Your only weapon against roulette is the money you put in and the way you do it, because is completely up to you. Cold numbers, hot numbers, closer to this or that, magical combinations are all stupid things, in my opinion.  My progression is unique, and takes advantage of the only weakness the wheel has.  Now I remember why I didn't checked this forum in a while...Zero is a number with the exact possibility to be hit as the others, so if you plan to include it in your pattern of bets it is ok.  I do not play more and more numbers if I don't finish the game in the firsts spins. It is true, though, that the total numbers played TEND to increase when I miss and TEND to decrease when I hit. My system is a combination of bet selection and progression. I pay no attention of what to play.  I had very bad sequences (the longest I remember was first hit at 16th spin, with the profit at spin 27). I had shorter wait on first spin but an overall longest game to reach the profit, so really doesn't change. I do not want to go through my books to find the exact sequence, probably I already written it somewhere or to someone.   The game is usually short, because of the large amount of numbers involved. Despite that, sometimes I play a considerable low amount of numbers, and if I hit in a strict sequence (let's say three in a row) my profit is quite large.There is no situation that can me bet more than 24 numbers in a single spin.  And yes, I guess it is very hard to catch the system without comprehending what's the source idea of it. You must be think in a original way how to recover your outstanding balance.  I will not explain the system, but I say to you there is one. For a smart, dedicated mind this is all that is needed.Wow, is my English that bad? "at spin 10 I already played 228 numbers (with no hits whatsoever)""(usually, with some hits meanwhile) at spin 20 I already played almost 200 numbers"I never play more than 24 numbers in a spin (24*10= 240, means that I play at maximum 24 numbers, so in ten spins I played 228 that brings easily the total below the maximum possible that I posted)No wonder you can't find it, never in a million years.I also said the my system can go as long as 260+ spins, not that I need to play that number of spins to reach my goal. Any game, as soon as it reaches the ratio 1 hit every 60 numbers played (roughly!) it is over with a profit.  This profit is 1 piece or more, depends when I get the ratio.  I count units, not dollars.And I am done for now. Three days and you remembered me to avoid this forum. Jerome, your post is exactly what I was hoping for, when I started post in here: make people work pursuing my HG. You are wrong, here and there, but really doesn't matter, you will find your way, eventually.  The only advice I can give you is find the core idea of the system, the "revolutionary" one, otherwise other already should have found it. My system has a particular progression that allows me to win, and to find that progression your brain must have a click, and find what's really important.  No matter how many indications and numbers I give you, or hints: without that you will not succeed. Keep trying, and be a-linear in your thinking. Try a never attempted road, be original.  My best wishes.Scepticus, you should read with more attentions. I said my system can sustain itself for more than 260 spins, but I also said that that never occured, not even close.  The profit for each game is minimum of 1 piece. So, it is usually more. Is another information I gave previously. The vast majority of my game last very few spins, as any system with a quite large selection of numbers. The trick is recover when the game becomes longer.  Jerome, I said that doesn't matter what number you choose, if the total number played is correct. Sure, if you want to keep your bankroll low, you need to play chances, dozens and so on and so forth.  I play american roulette, with double zero (I now live in US), it is a little harder, but not really.Jerome: I am from Italy, and I moved to US because I want my daughter to study here. She was very young when we moved, and Italy was in a very economical disaster.  As I said, playing the european wheel changes a little but you don't really notice in an average game. I had a trace in my first two years or so, then I found it no more relevant. I know my progression, there is not much calculus to do, and so I stopped. I play on machine, so I just remember the count when I start the game. When I reach a bigger number, I know I am in profit (cannot be easier). I usually start with 300 units, so I just keep tracking of that (you get it, right? when the counter show 302, I start a new game). When reach 500 or so, I go eat or do something else, and then start again at 300.  I have been scared at the beginning, because you always think the casinos have rigged games. Now time proved was a unjustified fear. When you have 8 people play at the same time, it is very hard find a number that make everyone lose. On the other hand, one day I had a guy close to me that was playing just number 14, with splits and street, and was playing big. He got the 14 hitting like 4 times in 7 spins, and walked away with 14000 dollars...I don't play with \$1 chips, as already said in other posts. I started with quarters, and took me time to have bankroll and confidence to go for more. I usually get 200 units a session, and I go for 2 or three session a day. Do the math.Blue angel, you can call me Filippo, is my name. What is so special about my progression, or my system, is that is a winning one. My progression is nuclear science because I am the only one in this forum that got a bulletproof system. You can believe me or not, I don't care.  I enjoy seeing your perspective on my situation, but I love much more mine! I don't chase losses since 2011, when I created this system. I lost and won before, with other systems I created, and a lot before any kind of system crossed my life.   I don't need much hit to recover. My system allow me to play less numbers when I am close to profit, and more when I am moving away from it. That's the geniality of it. The average hit ratio is really on machine favor (1/60), so I don't need a very specific combination or luck to win.  I have many spins, many possible combinations, an adjustable progression (I mean adaptable) to reach my goal. Your warnings, as I said before, were already old 4 years ago...Almost forgot. I wrote posts about it only here. Any other forum or users with similar content are not me. And sometimes I regret even to have started this one...`
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: Reyth on December 22, 2016, 04:05:46 AM
Code: [Select]
`No, dear Scepticus, is not a variation. As I stated in the post: "That is a system I used few years ago".   In fact, I used the simple system for a short while, after that I managed to have a slightly better idea and the I had My HG.  Maybe I already said that, but the HG didn't come to me complete. The original idea has been tweaked to reach his actual shape. I admit that at the beginning was hard to manage, because of the notes and calculus I had to perform while playing, then I was able to simplify it.  Jerome, be careful endorsing me. People here will start to think we are the same person supporting each other (for undisclosed reason, by the way).I encourage people to find a way to their own HG, not to mimic mine. I don't think anyone can have exactly the same as the one I use, for many many reasons (and I don't give enough hints to grab it, but maybe someone can, who knows?). I just wished to tell people that who claims "HG doesn't exist" is plain wrong. Visual Ballistic, Statistics, Math geniuses, all scammers and liars that claim that, and try to sell you their system or method or "super advanced technology"... I am not one of them. I sell nothing, I am not interested (but I admit I was tempted some years ago, as I already said).   I wish people double their efforts to find the HG knowing that someone has it (I am sure I am not the only one, I have meet people I believe they have a winning one in their hands... I guess already said that too).  Jerome, hard to believe but your English is worst than mine, and sometimes I have hard time understanding you. Still, I hope you will find what you are looking for. It will not come to you in a full, complete, detailed scheme, but in bits and pieces. You will work on it till it reaches is complete form, and then you will know if is good or just not enough good. If the latter, start again with a new idea.  I still try to improve mine (without success in the last 18 months or so, I think), to reduce bankroll or shorter games, and I will ever try no matter how good is now, and just because I cannot do otherwise.  I don't know if this is helping you or not, but I felt I want to tell you all of this.when I say selection is not important, I exactly mean that no matter what is your pattern, your way to choose the right number/area/color/section has no influence in the final outcome.  When I started, I took 2000 spins I witnessed in a casino. I selected a pattern and I used my system (for a better understanding, let's say a used the number 1 as a pivotal point of my system). It worked. then I used a different pattern, and then another (let's say number 2, and then number 3... finally 36). In every occasion worked, even when a number, a split or a street skipped for two hundreds spins! Sometimes I profited more some other less, naturally, but at the end I was winning no matter what.  I understand 2000 is not a huge number, but was the beginning and gave me enough confidence to try the system at a real casino. After that I had days, then weeks, then months and years of winnings, so every mathematicians speculations are meaningless to me (Einstein had a better project to work with, he didn't committed to the study of roulette, so he is not a very good reference...).   I do not chase my losses, increasing my betting. My progression is unique, as I already said a dozen time, is not aggressive or mild, so your assumption that exist only two kind of progressions is really naive...  Now I am portrayed like a sociopath... Well, it's amusing.  About the quote, I was clearly talking about the Simple system, and everyone less blind than Scepticus can easily read that.  Jerome, for me a game end with a profit or is not over.If I tell you my first two bets on my system I will not reveal anything, because the difference is the way I bet after not hitting in the first two spins. I will not give hints about the idea behind the progression (but some ideas in this forum are not that far to mine, though) and I don't care getting your approval. I really hope Jerome will work hard to find his way to it, and I will not gain anything from that, and he will have noone to thanks. That's how it works. Haters, shortminded, blamers will have all the time of their life to say and write whatever make them comfortable.No, Jerome, what you wrote is not the only solution...As I already said, the selection is not important. If with a pattern of bets I would have win at the fifth spin, with another would have been at 7th.  The average hit/number played is what I rely upon. 1/60 can be seen not enough, in a short term, but I play a lot of numbers for a lot of spins, so sooner or later I will get it, because "mathematically" the average will tend to be 1/38, am I wrong?I can see that you all can't believe progression is enough  to be a winner, that's why you are not (relatively speaking, I don't want to offend anyone). Is like when people could not believe that the earth was round just because was beyond their experience.  I don't see my system go down the drain shortly, because I never been in years at a point in my progression that can be close to that. My system can hold for 260+, and never once I reached spin 80. In my past experience I saw systems go close to go broke and be saved at the very last moment, and that was just a premiere for the inevitable, that eventually came.  With my system, at spin 60 I can be down less than twenty units, with a bunch of numbers to play, so no panic, no pain if something go wrong, like a broken machine... This is the difference.  You immagine my system going up up up and me forced to put thousands of dollar on the table. Doesn't work this way. I do not rely on a single magical hit, a turn of luck. More spins, more closer to the average I will be. If I am on 1/75, how much units I have to recoup? Not many, I tell you.  I am absolutely agree with BlueAngel, play 6 splits instead of a dozen makes no difference, except that you can use 1 unit instead of six...For example playing 18 numbers in the first and second spin, then 24 from the 3rd to the 10th...Jerome, glad you are still working on it!  As I always stated, the progression is the real HG. And yes, is quite hard to get. It took me two decades, and I crashed in it I should say casually. I was frustrated by the fact that every progression goes higher and higher till they get unplayable, unsustainable.   I realized the there is no point in thinking in a strict mathematical terms. Many Maths geniuses in the last centuries did try to face the problem, and they ditched the game as unbeatable. Many people here say the same. Mathematically speaking they are right, probably, but there is no need to limit oneself to any boundary, no matter how logic and consequential it is.  I mean, it is normal if you think that your approach is the only that exists, find no answer to unresolved dilemmas in that area. Still, you have options to think in a different way, no matter which field you are working in.   You need to find a new perspective, a new point of view, to that dilemma. I know what other thinks, that is exactly why they loose. Everything is impossible till someone prove it possible, after that moment for every one is crystal clear, "how could I be so blind?"  As I said, I forgot about selection, I kept aside outcome. Statistically speaking, I should hit one number every 37 played (38 on American Wheel). Let's consider variance, because statistic works on big numbers, and I tried if I could sustain 1 hit every 40 numbers played, then 45, then 50... I stretched the idea till the maximum I could manage, and I find myself in the ratio 1/60, that is quite good, in my opinion.  Probably I could stretch it a little more, but the game is already too slow sometimes that I can't really handle the boredom.   Probably I repeat myself, please be patient. If I play 370 numbers, adding several spins of course, I should have an average of 10 hits. It won't happen, we all know that. I don't need to hit 10 of them in order to gain a profit, just 6, and with not a huge bankroll.  And with every hit I find myself in a better position, with less bankroll to recover.  If you select a number, you can select just the one that will not show itself for 300 spins. It is hard but can happen. Will be a lot more unusual that after that the second number you select will go for other 300, and after that the third you play, and the forth, and so on and so forth. Mathematically can happen, but in your lifetime it won't. Some of them you will hit in the first three/four spins.  So, my idea is just rely on that consideration, keeping my outstanding balance low enough to not get crazy, and playing for enough spins to let the variance work a little in my favor. If the table close or broke (happens in the soft air wheels) I play in another table as I was keep playing in the previous one, because nothing really changes (remember, I don't care about numbers).  The few times I had to stop playing I didn't follow this rule but I started a game as a new one, keeping track of "what if", and all the time I recovered from the previous situation ending in a profit.  Why I didn't? I don't know, exactly. I always preferred to take that loss and start with a fresh game, probably as an habit, and probably because the loss wasn't that high.  I am an emotive player, I know that and I know myself. I don't want to make mistakes because I am nervous.  Sometimes it happens, sometimes you bet the wrong numbers, and that mistake 90% of the time has no consequences. Sometimes it helps you, because you wrongly play the 33 instead of 36, and you hit. Sometimes is all the way around. In the latter case I consider that as a no-hit and I keep playing, game became a little longer and that's it.`
This is a dump of all of Dr. Talos' posts; The Talos_Canon, if you will.  From reading his posts I know that he is very much like a criminal (no offense intended) who subconsciously wishes to get caught; i.e. he actually wishes that someone will discover his system but is unwilling to simply "give up", that is, disclose it directly.  The reason for this is quite noble, he wishes to protect his family from the casinos.  You can watch him starting out slow and very general but by the end he is throwing massive clue bombs for us to pick up.

In order to satisfy his subconscious longing, we need to discover his system from the clues he has left us.  There is quite a bit of data to sort through and many direct conclusions can be made.  I will post what I discover below.
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: Reyth on December 22, 2016, 04:59:45 AM

CANON 1

I studied a lot of math. Roulette is not a probabilties game
(you play too few shots for the rules of chances to be involved).
It is just math, plain and simple.

I encourage you to go back in matemathics and forget "hot" and "cold" numbers, or sectors,
and handle just the money you got as a bankroll. That is the key.

CANON 2

My system gains 0,25 a shot on average [I said, on average I gain 0.25 per spin, that means that in 4 spins I gain one unit.], the bankroll needed is a lot less then 1000 units, and the longest game has been around 90 spins (I do my calculation without writing down outcomes, so cannot be accurate on that). The average game lasts five spins.

CANON 3

I do use a progression, not as painful and aggressive like Martingale, but not everytime one hit close the game.

CANON 4

As I said, "Martingale" is a winning system that defeats the house edge. Unfortunately, is unplayable...
So, the task is to create a playable Martingale. Many tried: we have Reverse Martingale, Fibonacci, and so on.
This is the path.

CANON 5

Allows me to introduce you to a concept important: what you need is a practical solution, not a perfect solution. This way, theoretically unsolvable problem can be solved.

CANON 6

I cannot accept a system with a stop-loss criteria.  A perfect system must have some qualities in its structure, like easy to manage, no deep calculation needed, a reasonable bankroll, and a general good gameplay, with no choices to be made during the game.

CANON 7

Every system who promises you to get more than the mere nominal chip is always a mirage. Sooner or later will put you
upside down.

CANON 8

I always say that there is no  reason in selecting numbers to play, or special combination that works as
triggers (wait three blacks, then...) this is nonsense. If a system works, must do it with any random number
you chose to bet.

CANON 9

Previous outcomes has not business in future outcomes. You know that. You have only one road to follow in order to win: betting amount. The "perfect system" is the martingale, but unfortunately is impossible to play. Once you create a suitable martingale, you have your Holy Grail.  The trick is a "playable Martingale". I keep saying that, I know I am boring.

CANON 10

Now, I completely abandoned selections of numbers to play, and I worked just with Progression.
This system can be used selecting twins or streets instead of straight numbers, works quite in the same way.

CANON 11

You need a system that not relays on a magical winning combination.
If you need your number to be hit, you are wandering in a deep dark wood.
What I meant is that your system (in order to be HG) must win no matter the sequence of
numbers the wheel sorts out.  Let me clarify for you one more time. Suppose I am playing
red with my progression. I win. Then, with the same outcomes, same list of numbers,
I play black. The system must win as well, otherwise is not trustfully. That my point.

CANON 12

This is why I wrote that the recovery sometimes can be a relatively slow process, but overall the system end up winning (one unit).

CANON 13

I figure out a progression that last equivalent of 249 spins with a need for a single hit to be victorious, and the bankroll required of 355 units.   As each and every system I like, gains merely one unit a game, but the majority of games last few spins, so I asked For some math. [NOTE THIS IS TALOS APPLYING HIS UNIQUE PROGRESSION TO A NEW SYSTEM]

This the the first quarter of the full Talos Canon.
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: Reyth on December 22, 2016, 06:10:13 AM
CANON 14

I see grossly 600 spins, gaining around 1500/1800 \$ a day. My systems total bankroll
is 950 units (never been close to that. The worst game touched a 590 units).

CANON 15

I do my simple math in my mind, and I use a clicker to keep track of the number of spins occurred.

CANON 16

In this game you see two possible roads to follow: predict numbers outcome and betting strategy.
Has been clear to me, after first ten years, that there is no way to predict anything. Numerology, wizardry, statistic are not helpful. I have seen a number hit 5 times in a row, and another one disappear for 478 spins. Red hit for 28 spins to get interrupted by a 0 then hit for more 14 spins... So, my first decision has been take out all this BS.

CANON 17

Some math geniouses (well, probably not as good as some people in here, though) approached the wheel and they surrended, so a full mathematical approach seems unlogical to pursue.

CANON 18

I easy get emotional, so I couldn't accept a system too demanding in terms of high betting or huge bankroll. I couldn't see myself putting like 300 units on a spin wheel. I get no confort thinking that I have 90% of  chance to hit... So my systems always started with an expected balance of 2/300. I knew that developing the system I will find a need to multiply that. If I start higher, I will end near the impractical.

CANON 17

After many years, putting toghether all this crumbs of experience, I figure out a way to manage progression in a bizarre way (by the way, a last advice. Because so many work and worked to find HG, a system too easy to plan, like betting the last sector, or add 1 when you hit, must be discarded right away. Other already tried that!).

CANON 18

If your system win big, will lose big. If your system win one unit, you just have to figure out a way to recover from a very small amount in the bad streak. This is important.

CANON 19

In my opinion is not good to relay on a single event in order to to win. This single event could not happen for a very long time.

CANON 20

I do not play even chances.

CANON 21

So...
Checking outcomes to identify a biased or fallacious wheel, then look at the ball spinning around the wheel to identify a sector where it will most likely end its run, it is called science.
On the other hand, waiting for a situation to occur, a situation that statistically happens one time every two spins, and studying a progression that allows you to wait 20 spins to hit, it is called luck.

CANON 22

People here do experiments trying to find a result, working with numbers, progressions, deduction and such. More are closer than they think, actually, but the last step is the hardest, it is said.

CANON 23

I don't wait for any sleepers or missing numbers. I start playing without any observation whatsoever, as soon as I reach the casino. I don't think someone can predict outcomes, so I work just with progression.

CANON 24

97% of games ends in the first 14 spins, and almost 70% in first fives. Usually I do not need to put more than 300\$ dollar for every session.

CANON 25

For my system to work, I need that I hit a number every 60 numbers played (means I don't have the same amount of numbers to play at every spin). I have 256 spins to pursue that average. When the ratio 1/60 his reached, my system is in profit.

CANON 26

Some users of this site asked me privately and politely informations about my system, and they get some. Not enough to solve the riddle (unless they are smart, devoted and analyze every hint I gave them) but something to work with.

This is the second quarter of the full Talos Canon.
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: Reyth on December 22, 2016, 06:16:03 AM
CANON 27 -- THE TALOS FAQ

How much bankroll do you need?
In theory, 1400 units. In my experience never gone even close to that. My record is around 450. But It is good to have some margins.

How many numbers you bet?
Depends. Changes during the game.

Did the game ends with the first hit?
Only if hits in the firsts spins. Sometimes I need 2 hits, sometimes five…

What the average profit?
Each and every game ends with a profit from 1 to 9 units. The average profit, because games can last 1 spin while other 30 or so, is around .30

Do you need a “magical” combination in order to win?
Not at all. All is needed is that I hit an average of 1 every 60 numbers played (or better). As soon as this threshold is reached, the game is won. Has happen I had to wait more than 180 numbers played before the first hit, then in the next 15 spins or so, with three more hit, the game was over.

How you choose numbers to play?
I use a system to avoid any mistake, and to fasten the game. There is no a better pattern or a best or worst choice, the important is the total numbers played, in the way the system asks for.

How many spins your system stands?
It can go almost 260 spins. The longest game I experienced is 73 spins, and the second worst around 50. The average game last 4 spins. During the day 80% of games are from 1 spins to 12.

Do you sell it?
No, I don’t.

Why?
Because I don’t want to. I make enough money with it to be satisfied, and if I had to put a price tag, that should be quite high.

Are calculations complicated?
Not really. In the vast majority of games I can compute mentally, using a clicker to keep track of spins. When the game becomes longer, let say more than 20 spins, you should keep track of balance, but is not complicated at all.

Do you cheat the wheel?
No, in any way. I use math.

So, what’s the philosophy of the system?
I think progression is the key. I don’t think there is a way to predict what numbers will be next, or sector or street or… Past spins have no influence, the dealer have not, the cabalistic aspect of numbers… BS. Even statistic has no matter in few spins, because it works on large amount of numbers.

How you found it?
I tried and tried tons of systems, changing approach every time that I felt stuck and cannot improve further what I had. I guess I have been lucky finding an unusual way to build a progression. As a matter of fact, I never seen a progression even close as the one I use.

Why you are not rich?
In an average day, you can play 8/10 hours, with frequent stops. Most of all, because looking at a wheel is boring (I usually browse the internet meanwhile, because you don’t need much attention in the first 10 spins, or chatting or using Facebook etc. etc.). The airball machine, that is faster than live roulette (close to 1 spin every fifty seconds) allows me to profit 30/40 units hr. I play with 3\$ chips, so my day ends when I get 1000\$. That goes two/three days a week.
With a 3\$ unit chip, for 1400 bankroll needed, I bring with me 4500\$.
My plan is move to 5\$ then 10\$, so to reach a profit of 3000\$ a day, or 6000\$ a week, or 24000\$ a month, “working” only two days a week.
Last year, for example, I played for long sessions of 12 and 14 days in a row, in Atlantic City and Las Vegas. Not a pleasureful experience, except for money.
Back to math. To became rich you should play something like 4 days a week, with a 20\$ units, so you have to bring 30000\$ cash in the casino (go figure) and maybe redeem 10000\$ over and over… You get noticed, not only by casino’s employees: thieves, gold diggers, people in needs, other gamblers… I don’t want that!

Are you the only winner?
I don’t think so. I played in hundreds places, from US to Australia, from Norway to Spain, on cruise ships and so on, and I met at least other two guys that seemed to have a good system. You can say this because they didn’t celebrate huge winnings, they were very focused on the game, and I “recognized” my same behaviors (no rewards cards, no chatting with others, no emotional display of any sort).

Did you ever lost?
Three times. Once I had to go to the bathroom because of oysters… yeah, enjoy the buffet, they say. Another was because they had to clean the area where the roulette was located. They gave me a warning of three spins then they closed the machine. I was out of like 20 units, so not a big deal. Third, and most painful, in the middle of a long game, I was out around 150 units, and my sister called me at the phone. My mother was no more, and I left without caring of the systems or the money.

Do you play online?
No. I think it is too easy to rig results, and secondarily I don’t want to be noticed. I change often casinos, and I cannot stick to an online one.

Did you ever told someone the system.
I wrote the system for my family, if something happens to me. Unfortunately my daughter is too young to learn it, and my wife cannot grab it. I had sometimes the temptation, for vanity or because someone needed so badly, but I refrained myself.
I thought to teach it to my brother, so he could protect my family if something unexpected happens to me. This is my biggest concern. I am not in a good relationship with him, and I do not trust him 100%, and I don’t think he got the right attitude to play the system at the casino, because lacks of discipline.

I’m just a nickname on a monitor, and people reading it are nicknames too. I don’t want to impress females just to bring them to me, so there is no use to fake something. I don’t care if people believes it or not. I have been called liar and attention seeker, dreamer or scammer. I get sad reading these statements, because they do not understand my position, and moreover they reveal their short sight. Unfortunately my English is not good enough to express myself completely, and I am sure I made a lot of mistakes here, but I hope someone will be encouraged to find his own way to his HG.

BANKROLL REQUIREMENT: 1400 units
BET SELECTION: Variable (amount of numbers) & random (no specific numbers required)
RECOVERY LENGTH: At least 5 wins (maximum)
PROFIT: 1 minimum, 9 maximum
PROFIT REQUIREMENT: An average of 1 win in 60 numbers played (profit guaranteed)
CONSECUTIVE LOSSES: Capacity of 250+ spins (less than 260), practically 90-95 (maxmimum expected).  Max expected numbers played without a win is 180-190.

Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: Reyth on December 22, 2016, 07:30:00 AM
CANON 28

I play different amounts of numbers as the game progress. Playing one number? I have been already dead for boredom...  Moreover, I said that vast majority of games ends in few spins, and this cannot be with a single number bet.

CANON 29

I moved recently from 1\$ chips to 3\$ chips because I reached one of my planned benchmarks (100.000 real spins).

CANON 30

I have a way to select what to bet, in order to avoid confusion or indecision. If system tell me to play a couple of dozens (for example, is not the way how it works...) I have a pattern to chose which dozens are to use. What you choose doesn't affect the final result, as long as you bet two dozens!
This "pattern" helped me testing the system without tweaking results. I tried different patterns with the same spin outcomes, and worked exactly the same.
A winning system must work in every situation, or is not a winning system. If you need to check late, hot, or lucky numbers, is not a winning system, it is a strategy.

CANON 31

My system can hold for more than 260 spins, and I never play a single number. At spin number 20 I have already played almost 200 numbers (usually, with some hits meanwhile). Important is the ratio of the hit (1 out of 60) I get.

CANON 32

At spin number 10 I already played 228 numbers (with no hits whatsoever), for an outstanding balance of 93 pieces. Yes, I need several hit to recover and be in profit, but as you can understand with the number I show is not so difficult to get, or too costly.
For example at spin number 10 I know I need 4 hits in a short period, or five in a longer one. I assure you it is quite rare reach spin number 10 without any hit!
When you hit, you play less numbers, and when you don't, the total numbers played tend to increase.

CANON 33

I have been asked how many number without hitting I can sustain, and I showed that. In the vast majority of games I hit something, and this will change completely the total sum of number played, as my outstanding balance at that moment.

CANON 34

Impossible to recover? I need four hits, and several spin to obtain that, and after every hit I reduce my total bet so gaining more "time" to fill my 1/60 ratio.

CANON 35

About what I select, I already wrote that I have a pattern that I follow, so to not be confused or distracted. My preferred pattern is following the last number, sometimes I use another pattern, because at the end it doesn't matter, as I already explained.
Important is how many numbers following a fixed progression bet. That progression is the important part, or "the trap" as Jerome says...

CANON 36

What I want you to understand is my simple advice: You can not predict what number we will come out. Your only weapon against roulette is the money you put in and the way you do it, because is completely up to you. Cold numbers, hot numbers, closer to this or that, magical combinations are all stupid things, in my opinion.
My progression is unique, and takes advantage of the only weakness the wheel has.

CANON 37

I do not play more and more numbers if I don't finish the game in the firsts spins. It is true, though, that the total numbers played TEND to increase when I miss and TEND to decrease when I hit. My system is a combination of bet selection and progression. I pay no attention of what to play.

CANON 38

I had very bad sequences (the longest I remember was first hit at 16th spin, with the profit at spin 27). I had shorter wait on first spin but an overall longest game to reach the profit, so really doesn't change.

CANON 39

The game is usually short, because of the large amount of numbers involved. Despite that, sometimes I play a considerable low amount of numbers, and if I hit in a strict sequence (let's say three in a row) my profit is quite large.

CANON 40

There is no situation that can me bet more than 24 numbers in a single spin. And yes, I guess it is very hard to catch the system without comprehending what's the source idea of it. You must be think in a original way how to recover your outstanding balance.

CANON 41

I never play more than 24 numbers in a spin (24*10= 240, means that I play at maximum 24 numbers, so in ten spins I played 228 that brings easily the total below the maximum possible that I posted)

CANON 42

I also said the my system can go as long as 260+ spins, not that I need to play that number of spins to reach my goal. Any game, as soon as it reaches the ratio 1 hit every 60 numbers played (roughly!) it is over with a profit.
This profit is 1 piece or more, depends when I get the ratio.
I count units, not dollars.

CANON 43

The only advice I can give you is find the core idea of the system, the "revolutionary" one, otherwise other already should have found it. My system has a particular progression that allows me to win, and to find that progression your brain must have a click, and find what's really important.
No matter how many indications and numbers I give you, or hints: without that you will not succeed. Keep trying, and be a-linear in your thinking. Try a never attempted road, be original.

CANON 44

The vast majority of my game last very few spins, as any system with a quite large selection of numbers. The trick is recover when the game becomes longer.
Jerome, I said that doesn't matter what number you choose, if the total number played is correct.

CANON 45

I usually start with 300 units, so I just keep tracking of that (you get it, right? when the counter show 302, I start a new game).

CANON 46

I don't need much hit to recover. My system allow me to play less numbers when I am close to profit, and more when I am moving away from it. That's the geniality of it. The average hit ratio is really on machine favor (1/60), so I don't need a very specific combination or luck to win.
I have many spins, many possible combinations, an adjustable progression (I mean adaptable) to reach my goal.

This is the 3rd quarter of the Talos Canon.
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: kav on December 22, 2016, 07:39:17 AM
Wow! my friend Reyth
And i was wondering where have you been and what were you doing... Not anymore :-)
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: Reyth on December 22, 2016, 07:52:03 AM
CANON 47

Maybe I already said that, but the HG didn't come to me complete. The original idea has been tweaked to reach his actual shape. I admit that at the beginning was hard to manage, because of the notes and calculus I had to perform while playing, then I was able to simplify it.

CANON 48

When I started, I took 2000 spins I witnessed in a casino. I selected a pattern and I used my system (for a better understanding, let's say a used the number 1 as a pivotal point of my system). It worked. then I used a different pattern, and then another (let's say number 2, and then number 3... finally 36). In every occasion worked, even when a number, a split or a street skipped for two hundreds spins! Sometimes I profited more some other less, naturally, but at the end I was winning no matter what.

CANON 49

I do not chase my losses, increasing my betting. My progression is unique, as I already said a dozen time, is not aggressive or mild

CANON 50

Jerome, for me a game end with a profit or is not over.

CANON 51

If I tell you my first two bets on my system I will not reveal anything, because the difference is the way I bet after not hitting in the first two spins. I will not give hints about the idea behind the progression (but some ideas in this forum are not that far to mine, though)

CANON 52

As I already said, the selection is not important. If with a pattern of bets I would have win at the fifth spin, with another would have been at 7th.
The average hit/number played is what I rely upon. 1/60 can be seen not enough, in a short term, but I play a lot of numbers for a lot of spins, so sooner or later I will get it, because "mathematically" the average will tend to be 1/38, am I wrong?

CANON 53

My system can hold for 260+, and never once I reached spin 80.
With my system, at spin 60 I can be down less than twenty units, with a bunch of numbers to play, so no panic, no pain if something go wrong, like a broken machine...   You immagine my system going up up up and me forced to put thousands of dollar on the table. Doesn't work this way. I do not rely on a single magical hit, a turn of luck. More spins, more closer to the average I will be. If I am on 1/75, how much units I have to recoup? Not many, I tell you.

CANON 54

For example playing 18 numbers in the first and second spin, then 24 from the 3rd to the 10th...

CANON 55

As I always stated, the progression is the real HG. And yes, is quite hard to get. It took me two decades, and I crashed in it I should say casually. I was frustrated by the fact that every progression goes higher and higher till they get unplayable, unsustainable.

CANON 56

I realized the there is no point in thinking in a strict mathematical terms. Many Maths geniuses in the last centuries did try to face the problem, and they ditched the game as unbeatable. Many people here say the same. Mathematically speaking they are right, probably, but there is no need to limit oneself to any boundary, no matter how logic and consequential it is.  You need to find a new perspective, a new point of view, to that dilemma. I know what other thinks, that is exactly why they lose.

CANON 57

As I said, I forgot about selection, I kept aside outcome. Statistically speaking, I should hit one number every 37 played (38 on American Wheel). Let's consider variance, because statistic works on big numbers, and I tried if I could sustain 1 hit every 40 numbers played, then 45, then 50... I stretched the idea till the maximum I could manage, and I find myself in the ratio 1/60, that is quite good, in my opinion.

CANON 58

Probably I repeat myself, please be patient. If I play 370 numbers, adding several spins of course, I should have an average of 10 hits. It won't happen, we all know that. I don't need to hit 10 of them in order to gain a profit, just 6, and with not a huge bankroll.
And with every hit I find myself in a better position, with less bankroll to recover.

CANON 59

If you select a number, you can select just the one that will not show itself for 300 spins. It is hard but can happen. Will be a lot more unusual that after that the second number you select will go for other 300, and after that the third you play, and the forth, and so on and so forth. Mathematically can happen, but in your lifetime it won't. Some of them you will hit in the first three/four spins.
So, my idea is just rely on that consideration, keeping my outstanding balance low enough to not get crazy, and playing for enough spins to let the variance work a little in my favor. If the table close or broke (happens in the soft air wheels) I play in another table as I was keep playing in the previous one, because nothing really changes (remember, I don't care about numbers).

This is the 4th and final quarter of the Talos Canon.
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: Reyth on December 22, 2016, 07:52:41 AM
Wow! my friend Reyth
And i was wondering where have you been and what were you doing... Not anymore :-)

Ya got close to sick and took the day off work. :D
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: december on December 22, 2016, 09:06:23 AM
Busy as a bee, Reyth...

Thanks
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: Reyth on December 22, 2016, 09:01:38 PM

CANON 25

For my system to work, I need that I hit a number every 60 numbers played (means I don't have the same amount of numbers to play at every spin). I have 256 spins to pursue that average. When the ratio 1/60 his reached, my system is in profit.

CANON 31

My system can hold for more than 260 spins, and I never play a single number. At spin number 20 I have already played almost 200 numbers (usually, with some hits meanwhile). Important is the ratio of the hit (1 out of 60) I get.

CANON 32

At spin number 10 I already played 228 numbers (with no hits whatsoever), for an outstanding balance of 93 pieces. Yes, I need several hit to recover and be in profit, but as you can understand with the number I show is not so difficult to get, or too costly.
For example at spin number 10 I know I need 4 hits in a short period, or five in a longer one. I assure you it is quite rare reach spin number 10 without any hit!
When you hit, you play less numbers, and when you don't, the total numbers played tend to increase.

CANON 33

I have been asked how many number without hitting I can sustain, and I showed that. In the vast majority of games I hit something, and this will change completely the total sum of number played, as my outstanding balance at that moment.

CANON 34

Impossible to recover? I need four hits, and several spin to obtain that, and after every hit I reduce my total bet so gaining more "time" to fill my 1/60 ratio.

CANON 35

About what I select, I already wrote that I have a pattern that I follow, so to not be confused or distracted. My preferred pattern is following the last number, sometimes I use another pattern, because at the end it doesn't matter, as I already explained.
Important is how many numbers following a fixed progression bet. That progression is the important part, or "the trap" as Jerome says...

CANON 37

I do not play more and more numbers if I don't finish the game in the firsts spins. It is true, though, that the total numbers played TEND to increase when I miss and TEND to decrease when I hit. My system is a combination of bet selection [TOTAL NUMBER OF BETS MADE S/U] and progression. I pay no attention of what to play.

CANON 38

I had very bad sequences (the longest I remember was first hit at 16th spin, with the profit at spin 27). I had shorter wait on first spin but an overall longest game to reach the profit, so really doesn't change.

CANON 39

The game is usually short, because of the large amount of numbers involved. Despite that, sometimes I play a considerable low amount of numbers, and if I hit in a strict sequence (let's say three in a row) my profit is quite large.

CANON 40

There is no situation that can me bet more than 24 numbers in a single spin. And yes, I guess it is very hard to catch the system without comprehending what's the source idea of it. You must be think in a original way how to recover your outstanding balance.

CANON 41

I never play more than 24 numbers in a spin (24*10= 240, means that I play at maximum 24 numbers, so in ten spins I played 228 that brings easily the total below the maximum possible that I posted)

CANON 43

The only advice I can give you is find the core idea of the system, the "revolutionary" one, otherwise other already should have found it. My system has a particular progression that allows me to win, and to find that progression your brain must have a click, and find what's really important.
No matter how many indications and numbers I give you, or hints: without that you will not succeed. Keep trying, and be a-linear in your thinking. Try a never attempted road, be original.

CANON 44

The vast majority of my game last very few spins, as any system with a quite large selection of numbers. The trick is recover when the game becomes longer.
Jerome, I said that doesn't matter what number you choose, if the total number played is correct.

CANON 45

I usually start with 300 units, so I just keep tracking of that (you get it, right? when the counter show 302, I start a new game).

CANON 46

I don't need much hit to recover. My system allow me to play less numbers when I am close to profit, and more when I am moving away from it. That's the geniality of it. The average hit ratio is really on machine favor (1/60), so I don't need a very specific combination or luck to win.
I have many spins, many possible combinations, an adjustable progression (I mean adaptable) to reach my goal.

CANON 47

Maybe I already said that, but the HG didn't come to me complete. The original idea has been tweaked to reach his actual shape. I admit that at the beginning was hard to manage, because of the notes and calculus I had to perform while playing, then I was able to simplify it.

CANON 51

If I tell you my first two bets on my system I will not reveal anything, because the difference is the way I bet after not hitting in the first two spins. I will not give hints about the idea behind the progression (but some ideas in this forum are not that far to mine, though)
CANON 52

As I already said, the selection is not important. If with a pattern of bets I would have win at the fifth spin, with another would have been at 7th.
The average hit/number played is what I rely upon. 1/60 can be seen not enough, in a short term, but I play a lot of numbers for a lot of spins, so sooner or later I will get it, because "mathematically" the average will tend to be 1/38, am I wrong?

CANON 53

My system can hold for 260+, and never once I reached spin 80.
With my system, at spin 60 I can be down less than twenty units, with a bunch of numbers to play, so no panic, no pain if something go wrong, like a broken machine...   You immagine my system going up up up and me forced to put thousands of dollar on the table. Doesn't work this way. I do not rely on a single magical hit, a turn of luck. More spins, more closer to the average I will be. If I am on 1/75, how much units I have to recoup? Not many, I tell you.

CANON 54

For example playing 18 numbers in the first and second spin, then 24 from the 3rd to the 10th...

CANON 55

As I always stated, the progression is the real HG. And yes, is quite hard to get. It took me two decades, and I crashed in it I should say casually. I was frustrated by the fact that every progression goes higher and higher till they get unplayable, unsustainable.

CANON 58

Probably I repeat myself, please be patient. If I play 370 numbers, adding several spins of course, I should have an average of 10 hits. It won't happen, we all know that. I don't need to hit 10 of them in order to gain a profit, just 6, and with not a huge bankroll.
And with every hit I find myself in a better position, with less bankroll to recover.

Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: Reyth on December 22, 2016, 09:17:14 PM
7 7 0:7
7 14 0:14
7 21 0:21
7 28 0:28
7 35 0:35

======

7 7 0:7
7 14 0:14
14 28 0:28
36 64 0:46
36 99 0:64

======

7 7 0:7
7 14 0:14
10 24 0:24
10 34 0:34
26 60 0:60

======

3 3 0:3
3 6 0:6
4 10 0:10
5 15 0:15
6 21 0:21
7 28 0:28
8 36 0:36
18 45 0:45
18 63 0:54
18 81 0:63
30 111 0:73
44 155 0:84
60 215 0:96
91 306 0:111

======

Min: 2 wins
Max: 5 wins

Calculate 1,2,3,4,5 (range) to ratio goal & display for raise/lower; RANGE/RATIO

======

12
12
13
14
14
15
16
16
17
18
18
19
20
20
21
22
22
23
24
24
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: slpcorner on December 22, 2016, 11:11:28 PM
7 7 0:7
7 14 0:14
7 21 0:21
7 28 0:28
7 35 0:35

======

7 7 0:7
7 14 0:14
14 28 0:28
36 64 0:46
36 99 0:64

======

7 7 0:7
7 14 0:14
10 24 0:24
10 34 0:34
26 60 0:60

What's this?
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: Reyth on December 23, 2016, 01:00:00 AM
I'm just doing some figuring based on some of the things Talos mentioned. :D

That post will be updated as I figure out and try new things.

I think I may have it figured out.

If I am correct, I understand why he says that failure is due to the player; the calculations are meticulous (ranges & ratios) to continuously maxmimize the advantage.

If I am correct, he has created a way to simplify the calculations through the number of bets he makes so it can be easily done mentally by just tracking the number of spins.

If I am correct, his system is based on the fact that increasing the number of bets creates a higher success/payout rate than simply raising with the bet selection remaining static.

Also, if I am correct, he utilizes a unique skill of REDUCING his bets and numbers selected when he wins which ALSO requires meticulous calculation (ranges & ratios).  If I am correct, I think this hidden method of "negotiation" recovery is the true genius of his system.

Also, if I am correct, I think he is basing his figure of 260 spins & 1400 bank balance required on the fact that he MUST get some guaranteed hits along the way and that he simply is facing successive streaks of prolonged losses in between the guaranteed wins.  After 100,000 recorded spins he has never faced anything close to this but he admits that it is possible and when it should happen he will only lose 1400 after having gained many hundreds of thousands.

I need to play around some more with it and hopefully I can simply make a softwares that will do all the maths for me.

This betting method kind of reminds me of this jellyfish:

(https://forum.roulette30.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.gifmania.co.uk%2FAnimals-Animated-Gifs%2FAnimated-Marine-Animals%2FJellyfish%2FJellyfish-Black-74247.gif&hash=7831e67fcff288fae14de51f150b6bc8)

Knowing the "jellyfish method" alone is not enough, we need to always calculate the ranges & ratios in order to survive the very tough times that do come.

Because like he says in the first CANON:

I encourage you to go back in matemathics and forget "hot" and "cold" numbers, or sectors,
and handle just the money you got as a bankroll. That is the key.
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: jerome26b on December 24, 2016, 11:44:44 AM
Hello Reyth,

i'm quite happy you started this topic and you're interrested as well to solve the DrTalos mystery,

i agree with your last post and sure the trick is the progression involved in the recovery part. Like i said i think for the whole part of the games his system is quite simple and like a grind just following a pattern, in fact it's a kind of bet selection right ? But anyway it's another discussion.

The fact his system can sustain 260 spins with 1400 bank is surely including a certain hit ratio he calculates from the worse scenario, we can imagine it's impossible to play 24 numbers in 50 consecutive spins with no hits. I really don't know how he calculates the 260 spins value but it's quite clear it includes "guaranteed hits" as you called them.

So the grind part is easy and the equation to solve is the recovering system including a unique progression when we don't hit in the first spins. I already tried many simulations including decreasing/increasing number of numbers after hits/no hits. I figured out when doing that you come in a situation where the game is never finishing, and if you play more numbers the net win will be less and is necessary involving you have to increase the bet in order to finish the game quite quickly. But if you do that the progression can go too high in some bad situations.
If you hit and play less numbers after every hit you can go to a situation that the game will never finish as well. So i was going to a conclusion that he's never playing less than 12 numbers.
I was able to create a kind of recover progression based on the fact that after the first hit we reduce the number played but if we miss we stayed at this level and not increasing the numbers played again. And you can sustain the 1/60 hit ratio under this scheme. But the one i was working on failed at a moment, so i needed to include a stop loss.
So now i'm trying to find another original way about recovering when the game is becoming longer. It's very difficult when the game is becoming longer to finish on a win with reducing numbers bet on a win and increasing numbers/bets on a loss, but he never said that he's increasing/decreasing after each hit/no hit, he just said the numbers played TEND to increase or decrease.
if you do the math with the total of numbers played spin after spin you will see it's not so easy to keep the 1/60 ratio in special long games. And if at a moment after no hit you increase the number played you are going out of the 1/60 ratio, or you have to increase your bet too much to finish the game under that ratio.
In any case to sustain the 1/60 hit ratio in bad sequences there's no choice you have to go to a progression, if you don't want to go too high in this progression you can reduce the number played to hope for the magical hit, but like i already said if you reduce the number played too much the game will never finish and he would have worse than 80 spin sequences. That's the "unsolvable" part of the equation for me, and the way probably he said we have to think in a different way to solve this part.

Jérôme
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: jerome26b on December 24, 2016, 01:26:20 PM
I would like to add one more thing that he never explained in fact, he said he's not selecting numbers but uses a pattern to avoid mistakes. But we don't know if he stayed in this pattern spin after spin or if the selected numbers are random spin after spin. Even more we are quite sure he's playing simple chances cause otherwise the bankroll needed would be too high.
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: Reyth on December 24, 2016, 02:44:34 PM
I think the solution is his range of 2-5 wins for recovery, we must remain within a 5 win window so that on the 5th win we will achieve 1:60.

I for one will always stay with the selected numbers and don't mind following his main pattern which is following the last number (I modify that slightly and bet 1 back from the last).

I don't know what you mean by "simple chances" but its really nice speaking with someone that has figured out his secrets too! :D
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: december on December 24, 2016, 03:57:41 PM

I don't know what you mean by "simple chances"...

Simple chances = EC
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: jerome26b on December 24, 2016, 05:58:08 PM
yes it's what i mean. strange anyway cause he said he never play even chances. it seems anyway that his first 2 bets are EC....
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: Reyth on December 24, 2016, 07:33:08 PM
I don't believe that red herring; you obviously refer to CANON 54.

It is my sincere opinion that he made this post not to be taken literally via amounts (I can prove this from other canons) but as an example of how the number of bets placed can rise using his system and that they DO rise/change during play.  I think this is in complete accordance with CANON 20.

I believe he starts using 4 or slightly more bets because of CANON 31 & 32; at the end of 10 spins he is down 93 units and at the same time he must have achieved 1:60 if he had won.  I think he is showing us this 10 spin benchmark for when recovery begins although I also have a contrary opinion that recovery begins earlier, maybe on spin 7...?

I think CANONS 31 & 32 can be further clarified...
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: jerome26b on December 24, 2016, 09:46:51 PM
my assumption is this one :

main "progression" until one hit :
------------------------------------------

 1 E -1 1 18 2 E -3 2 36 8 2D -11 3 60 10 2D -21 4 84 12 2D -33 5 108 12 2D -45 6 132 12 2D -57 7 156 12 2D -69 8 180 12 2D -81 9 204 12 2D -93 10 228
at spin number ten 228 numbers are played and we are -93, the first column is the bet by spin (without hitting)
So if a hit on the first 3 spins it's direct gain, end of turn. Otherwise we start then the recovery process and it's there where things are becoming more difficult. Last column is total numbers played.
If i made the assumption we hit only at spin number 11, playing last 2 dozens for example always with 12 unit in total waiting for the first hit then after this first hit we just play 12 numbers we are still in the game :

spin 11 2 dozens (6 each) hit -> -87 total number played 252 then we reduce numbers played to 12 only :

 -87 D 12 -63 264 12 -39 276 12 -15 288 12 9 300 5
so with 4 hits succesfully we have played in total 300 numbers and are in plus reaching the ratio 1/60.
Of course it's very rare to reach spin 11 without any hit playing 24 numbers... i made several more simulations where things are getting worse like first hit at spin 13 then one hit and losing 10 more time on the 12 numbers and at a moment it's very difficult to manage the progression so i think it's working differently somewhere...
i tried to simulate more numbers after miss and less after hitting but it's even worse, interminable to recover.

Jérôme
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: Reyth on December 24, 2016, 09:59:26 PM
Very interesting.  My simulation begins with 3 and goes up by one until it hits 8 and then raises by 1 for 9 and continues to raise by 1 and increase the number of bets by 1 until the 1:60 ratio requires a larger raise (5 wins max requirement to hit 1:60).  Obviously we would stop adding bets once we hit 24 numbers.

On reduction we should always remember the 2-5 recovery window in light of the 1:60 ratio to indicate our reduction.  The 5 max win requirement should keep us safe.

Interesting how you literally interpreted his large gap from CANON 54.  I chose to ignore it based on a single phrase in CANON 35:

My preferred pattern is following the last number,

Notice he says NUMBER singular; this indicates to me that he raises by 1 number at a time.  Again, I am supposing that CANON 54 is a complete red herring, only being used to show us that the number of his bets increases during play.

What are you using to simulate numbers?  I am using FREE mode on a casino; and yes I have been hammered so many times in this FREE mode I can't even tell you.

Btw, we should also remember this sentiment (which didn't make it into the official Canon):

I encourage people to find a way to their own HG, not to mimic mine. I don't think anyone can have exactly the same as the one I use, for many many reasons (and I don't give enough hints to grab it, but maybe someone can, who knows?).

So its not absolutely required that we be 100% exactly to the last unit, IF we get the overall concept and play rules [ranges & ratios] correct. ;)
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: jerome26b on December 24, 2016, 10:23:49 PM
i've a file of 4000 real live spins i recorder from immersive latvian roulette. it's really helping me now to not play real money with bs systems ;-)
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: Reyth on December 24, 2016, 10:39:44 PM
LOL.  Ya, I get you.  I still have to work out exactly how to perform the calculations; he is correct when he says they are very complex.  Once I have done this I am pretty sure I can discover his "guestimation" method to simplify the whole thing. :D
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: jerome26b on December 25, 2016, 09:30:15 AM
Very interesting.  My simulation begins with 3 and goes up by one until it hits 8 and then raises by 1 for 9 and continues to raise by 1 and increase the number of bets by 1 until the 1:60 ratio requires a larger raise (5 wins max requirement to hit 1:60).  Obviously we would stop adding bets once we hit 24 numbers.

how do you achieve the -93 at spin 10 with 228 numbers played so ?

There's no many solutions for this :

- either 12 numbers first spin then 9 spins 24 numbers (he never play more than 24 numbers)
- either 18 numbers first 2 then 8 times 24 like he suggested but he said before he didn't play even chances so maybe this canon was just to give an example of a possible other solution.
- last solution is to play like 5 streets then 7 streets second spins, but i never really focused on this one.

if we take last solution we can imagine a system based on streets addind and removing some streets after hitting/missing.

- there's another way i never tried yet it's to play with corners. We can imagine play 24 numbers with 6 corners. And a combination of corners for the first 2 spins.

- But anyway all of this is bet selection and he said it's not important, so the most important part of the work is just to find a progression than can achieve the 1/60 in long series (in short it's not so difficult i already did it) with solving the equation on playing more numbers when miss and less when win. The problem with that is to find a way to finish the game at a moment and not going to an infinite up and down. It's there when it seems it's not possible mathematically speaking to achieve it, so when he said we have to find an original way to build a progression it's the path maybe...

Jérôme
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: Reyth on December 25, 2016, 03:33:38 PM
My progression right now is at 0:63 at 10 numbers but I don't hit 228 numbers until bet number 13.  You are right, I should probably try starting at 4 numbers and see how much it gets closer.

I really believe he raises by 1 number at a time and so I wonder how many numbers I need to start at in order to get to 228 by bet 10 and while raising one number at a time...

I guess in the beginning you are closer than I am at the moment starting with 18 S/U numbers.  Its very interesting in fact becase he mentions this!!

Check CANON 21:

So...
Checking outcomes to identify a biased or fallacious wheel, then look at the ball spinning around the wheel to identify a sector where it will most likely end its run, it is called science.
On the other hand, waiting for a situation to occur, a situation that statistically happens one time every two spins, and studying a progression that allows you to wait 20 spins to hit, it is called luck.

It is interesting that he is indicating here a progression that provides 10x expectation for the number of bets.  I wonder if this is to be a perpetual constant...  It is playing 360 numbers in 20 spins.

So, what he is indicating here is 20 consecutive misses of an EC!  The odds of this are:

(https://forum.roulette30.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi63.tinypic.com%2Fwirccm.jpg&hash=184a9388ba350d8c988b99515eb22d53)

Which is:

0.00013732910156

Check out the last entry here:

https://forum.roulette30.com/index.php?topic=1252.msg18008#msg18008

It adds up to 360!!!!  NO FREAKING WAY, RIGHT?!

This brings up CANON 58 which again seems to indicate our 5 wins limit...

Again, I think the key is to calculate 1 hit 1:60, 2 hits 2:120, 3 hits 3:180, 4 hits 4:240 & 5 hits 5:300; this will give us a list of choices for possible raises/lowerings to choose from.

Our progression when reducing and raising, can never allow a situation to occur that will be worse than achieving 5:300 from the 1st spin of the raise/lowering to the 5th spin of that sequence.  THAT IS A COMPLEX CALCULATION but it will keep us safe because it will tell us (Talos?) the bare minimum our raise must be to "stay in the game".  Have you done this yet?  I haven't worked out the algorithim to accomplish it yet, still kind of wrapping my brain around it...

You are familiar with CANON 32?
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: jerome26b on December 25, 2016, 06:53:22 PM
in fact my progression based on recovery with only 12 numbers works with the ratio 1:60 until at least 360 even more. the problem arise when we go to longer game and it's not finishing quickly then at a moment when there's an alternate of loss win loss loss loss at a moment i've to bet *2 the twelve numbers to respect the ratio and finish for example at 10 hits for 600 numbers. the problem is i can be -550 at that moment and it becomes long and crazy to recover. raising again the number played will not really solve the issue cause the game will be even longer. and reducing the numbers played will just count of luck for a magical hit so i don't have any solution now for longer games like >25-30 spins. it occurs once every 1000 spins in my file.

jerome.
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: jerome26b on December 25, 2016, 06:58:16 PM
one more thing Reyth,

the system he plays must be payable easily. he said once he was surfing the net while playing so even if he's using airball with repeat button i don't think it's easy to play numbers and add / remove one number between spins. you ca repeat the last bet but not removing a bet so it's quite unplayable i think. i really don't think he's playing numbers, maybe not even chances but maybe block of streets or double streets or corners or dozens. it's more practical to play. and the calculations should be simple as well don't forget he said at the end it's simple math ...

jerome.
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: Reyth on December 25, 2016, 07:32:07 PM
What he said was that the first 10 spins are easy and require no mental work, not the entire system.  This must be because it is a rote progression up to that point and its very likely to get a hit so there will never be any thinking involved.

Here is a problem:

Quote
CANON 31:

At spin number 20 I have already played almost 200 numbers (usually, with some hits meanwhile).

Quote
CANON 32:

At spin number 10 I already played 228 numbers (with no hits whatsoever), for an outstanding balance of 93 pieces.

Obviously these both can't be true.

Also, to finish quickly, we need to always make sure that we will reach 1:60 within 5 wins.  We MUST reduce the numbers bet after a win to "give us more time to achieve our 1:60 in 260 spins".  The very key to this system is NOT having a static bet selection because it is constantly tending to grow and shrink depending on THE BANK BALANCE.

The idea is to keep surfing until it gives us hits close in a row.  Because we always maintain at least 5 wins to a 60:1 ratio to end the game, we can surf as long as it takes to achieve it.  Like he said, sometimes recovery can be a slow and arduous process but eventually, at the end,  we win at least a unit.

The majority of the time though, we win within the first 5 spins.
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: jerome26b on December 25, 2016, 09:34:19 PM
You're right I always had a problem with these canon 31 and 32. It should means if both are true that he restrict drastically the numbers played after hitting. If I'm focusing on canon 31 to be right by experience it's common to have a hit at spin 5-6, in 2000 real spins I never saw more than 8 I think. So at spin 5 108 numbers are already played and we got a hit. It left around 92 numbers to play in 15 spins so something like playing a double street or 6 numbers 15 times maybe ?

Jerome.

Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: Reyth on December 25, 2016, 10:01:22 PM
When I finally get "un lazy" I will make the softwares calculate the bets needed for 1 win (current), 2 wins (current + reduced), 3 wins (current + reduced twice), 4 wins (current + reduced 3 times) & 5 wins (current + reduced 4 times) where reduction after a win is essential and increasing after a loss is close to required.
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: DrTalos on December 27, 2016, 02:27:31 AM
I am impressed. I am clapping my hands for your efforts, and the conclusion you reached so far. I will not say if you are far or close, but I will correct some assumption that I think can help you go through it (I keep my idea that you will never reach the exact one, so my system is not in danger, and probably you will end with one of your own).
Canon 31 and 3e are both true, sorry for that. (I love that definition).
When I used the word number is exactly what it is, but your implication can be wrong. Let's assume that I relate each number with a sequence of numbers, like the closer in the wheel, or a series of streets in the table, so for my using a number as a reference point can be bring to the table a whole bunch of numbers instead of a single one, am I right?
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: jerome26b on December 27, 2016, 08:51:26 AM
I am impressed. I am clapping my hands for your efforts, and the conclusion you reached so far. I will not say if you are far or close, but I will correct some assumption that I think can help you go through it (I keep my idea that you will never reach the exact one, so my system is not in danger, and probably you will end with one of your own).
Canon 31 and 3e are both true, sorry for that. (I love that definition).
When I used the word number is exactly what it is, but your implication can be wrong. Let's assume that I relate each number with a sequence of numbers, like the closer in the wheel, or a series of streets in the table, so for my using a number as a reference point can be bring to the table a whole bunch of numbers instead of a single one, am I right?

Yes sure MrTalos,

i always understood it in that sense (a number as a reference point or a pivot i mean), thanks for clarifying the canon 31 & 32 anyway. But not more material to work with now.
In fact the dump of Reyth i got already everything in my head for a while cause i did a compilation and took notes of the importing posts of all that you wrote about your system so nothing really new for me just the fact somebody else now is working on it which can bring new ideas.

There's still a lot of work to do but i was doing some mindstorming yesterday about original ideas for progression and there's one i will try to simulate today.
The key is to keep the outstanding balance as low as possible waiting for the first hit in my opinion.
You said you build your progression from scratch so you think  you are the only one in the world to use this progression i suppose ?

have a good day !

Jérôme
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: DrTalos on December 27, 2016, 02:22:46 PM
Well, I have no idea if I am the only one or not. I think there are several ways and approach to beat the wheel, some of them more efficiently than others.
A guy once told me that if you spend a year playing and the balance at the end is 0, you can consider yourself a winner because you had one year of fun for free!
Is not my opinion though. I started this adventure to get a profit, to gain a living, and a winning method that allows losing streaks or loss stop point wasn't good for me. I wanted to be a consistent winner, I wanted to relay on an additional income, and I found what in the end has become my only income.
I am sorry I will not give more clues of it. You all get the idea and I guess you have the tools to find your way to it. I will point out once again the most important question of them all, and is the most important because if you solve this dilemma you will have the key to the system: How can I keep the balance low so to wait till the numbers come in my favor?
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: jerome26b on December 27, 2016, 04:45:59 PM
Well, I have no idea if I am the only one or not. I think there are several ways and approach to beat the wheel, some of them more efficiently than others.
A guy once told me that if you spend a year playing and the balance at the end is 0, you can consider yourself a winner because you had one year of fun for free!
Is not my opinion though. I started this adventure to get a profit, to gain a living, and a winning method that allows losing streaks or loss stop point wasn't good for me. I wanted to be a consistent winner, I wanted to relay on an additional income, and I found what in the end has become my only income.
I am sorry I will not give more clues of it. You all get the idea and I guess you have the tools to find your way to it. I will point out once again the most important question of them all, and is the most important because if you solve this dilemma you will have the key to the system: How can I keep the balance low so to wait till the numbers come in my favor?

It seems mathematicaly this dilemma is impossible to solve but apparently your progression is beyond mathematic logic, well well well... but at the end you said your system is simple maths.
Let's resume some points, we can keep the balance low by 3 ways :

- lowering the beting numbers.
- lowering the bets.
- not betting at all, this way we enter the virtual bets and it's gamblers fallacy we all know about that.

now let's analyze the first 2 points and their pros and cons :

- if we lower the numbers we bet we have less chance to hit so it will increase the variance between hits.
- if we lower the bets it will take more time to recover and maybe we will not achieve the 1/60 ratio we need.

now about the combination of both :

- if we lower the numbers we bet after first hit but let the same amount of bet we are waiting for the magical selection to hit but we enter in pure luck system.
- if we lower the numbers we bet after first hit but reduce the bet we are going to infinite and uncoverable balance.

i did many simulations of all these combinations and they all fail at a moment; so i suppose you use something else.

if the solution is not mathematical what the hell it can be ?

there's another topic on the forum about parachute system, maybe it's the solution to the trick...

Jérôme
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: Reyth on December 27, 2016, 05:06:26 PM
A key way that his system lowers the cost is by increasing the chances of getting a hit.  I think the key concept is that raising the total size of the bet selection produces better results than simply raising on a static bet selection.

A second way is to understand how wide our window can be and let the wheel play out to that width before raising the bets.

Since we are talking about "hitting in our favor" which in recovery means a cluster of hits in a row, then another way to keep the costs down is to decrease the size & total of the bet selection after a hit.

I think its important to realize that "less numbers" does not mean "failure to succeed" BECAUSE the one thing that is static in this system is THE ACTUAL NUMBERS BET and so the longer we stay on those numbers, the greater the chance of them hitting for us.  Every hit gives us a MASSIVE advantage and especially when the bet selection has been lowered; i.e. the lower the bet selection, the greater the advantage when we hit.

These are the core principles of his system and I think we cannot stray from them in our approach.  I think the key to this approach is the ratios (1:60 will yield a profit) & ranges (must obtain a profit in 5 wins) in both increasing and decreasing the selection.

Man its tough to figure out a formula to do this.  I think the first thing I need to do is just calculate the ratio of how many hits TO how many numbers played and just learn to track that.  Obviously if we are under 60 numbers played, we must obtain a profit from each bet.  Things start to get interesting after 60 numbers played...

Hmmm, I think I have figured something out.  If our ratio is less than 2:120 then we divide the debt by 2 (2 wins), less than 3:180 divide by 3 (3 wins), less than 4:240 divide by 4 (4 wins) & divide everything else by 5 (5 wins).  This kind of seems like a "divisor point" approach to our bet sizing.

The divisor point approach agrees perfectly with CANON 1 & CANON 33:

Quote
I encourage you to go back in matemathics and forget "hot" and "cold" numbers, or sectors,
and handle just the money you got as a bankroll. That is the key.

Quote
I have been asked how many number without hitting I can sustain, and I showed that. In the vast majority of games I hit something, and this will change completely the total sum of number played, as my outstanding balance at that moment.

Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: jerome26b on December 27, 2016, 06:32:37 PM
i think you have to do simulations to see yourself that reducing numbers you bet will not give a solution. let's say to take an example we play until spin 10 and missed so 228 numbers played and we are down -93 units. we have a hit now and play less numbers, it will not means we will have the statistics go to our advantage cause we are not staying in our selection. imagine we are suddenly playing 12 numbers do you really think we will have more hits in this 12 numbers just because we were missing the 228 before ? what about if the hits are in the zone of the 12 we are not playing. it's nonsense ...
and if we miss and play more numbers we have to raise the bets otherwise the game will never finish. it's a real challenge to keep your outstanding balance low on a bad streak situation. i didn't tried the Lanky divisor yet, i was thinking about that since the beginning but i this system is not reducing the numbers we bet so i was not using it to simulate. i encourage you to do some simulations with real spins and you will see how it's difficult to solve the 'dilemma' that drtalos is talking about. i really think now either there's no solution or the solution is completely beyond all logical/mathematical sense. maybe we have to look to chaos theory to solve the trick ?

jerome
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: jerome26b on December 27, 2016, 06:42:33 PM
i don't know if there's a canon for that but i remember he said we have to take advantage of the only weakness the wheel has. maybe he means the bankrol and money we involve in the table to take advantage, i already understood it in that sense.
that's funny cause in the introduction of your topic you talked about a murderer that would like to be catched so what's the best way to use ? in my opinion it's to work like a profiler so it's trying to be in the mind of the murderer, it's what i'm trying to do with all drtalos posts trying to be in his head to find his system if there's one. it's not just taking all the posts separate but trying to find an all together evidence. i'm still convinced i can find the solution but the solution will not come mathematically i'm quite sure now. he said his progression is particular and your brain must have a click to find it so it's beyond all usual kind of progression we currently know.

jerome.
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: jerome26b on December 27, 2016, 07:27:25 PM
i've another thought sudenly i remember he told that even if he will give the first two bets he will not say anything about the system cause the difference is the way he's betting after the first two bets. i'm now convinced by the proof about simulations that the solution is not with a linear progression. i'm now on the way to find a differential progression to solve the trick. the progression is the key but it's not a linear progression on numbers. maybe a differential progression on some part of selection can push the balance on our side statistically in the long term.

jerome.
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: Reyth on December 27, 2016, 08:21:11 PM
We should remember this is counter-intuitive, it won't make sense to us which is why only a few have discovered it; it is unique.

let's say to take an example we play until spin 10 and missed so 228 numbers played and we are down -93 units. we have a hit now and play less numbers, it will not means we will have the statistics go to our advantage cause we are not staying in our selection.

We ARE staying with our selection.  We are keeping X numbers that we have been betting from the beginning.  We should not be discouraged with shrinking our bet selection but embrace it as the unique method that wins.

Quote
imagine we are suddenly playing 12 numbers do you really think we will have more hits in this 12 numbers just because we were missing the 228 before ? what about if the hits are in the zone of the 12 we are not playing. it's nonsense ...

Dr. Talos addresses this with CANON 59:

Quote
If you select a number, you can select just the one that will not show itself for 300 spins. It is hard but can happen. Will be a lot more unusual that after that the second number you select will go for other 300, and after that the third you play, and the forth, and so on and so forth. Mathematically can happen, but in your lifetime it won't. Some of them you will hit in the first three/four spins.  So, my idea is just rely on that consideration, keeping my outstanding balance low enough to not get crazy, and playing for enough spins to let the variance work a little in my favor. If the table close or broke (happens in the soft air wheels) I play in another table as I was keep playing in the previous one, because nothing really changes (remember, I don't care about numbers).

The green bolded is THE ONLY WEAKNESS THE WHEEL HAS.

Our solution should lie in keeping the 5 win limit at all times & working with derivations of 1:60.  If we use both the range and ratios together it should work.  I believe this is the "unique" progression and especially when you factor in the reductions as well as raises.  As long as we stay within 1400 units, all is well.

So far in my simulations I am running the first 60 numbers, starting with 5 and increasing by 1 until I hit 12.  Then I start calculating the debt and using the divisor -- the divisor is the key to prolonging our progression -- then when you add reductions on a hit we can spin like forever (like the jellyfish), simply waiting for the wheel's weakness to cluster us some wins.  Because we always stay within 5 wins, we will eventually get the cluster that puts us at 1:60 and profit.
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: jerome26b on December 27, 2016, 08:43:11 PM
i'm glad you took this last reply cause it was the proof he's using a bet selection even if he always said he doesn't care. it's a vast topic to discuss but the only way to avoid a kind of bet selection is to let a robot select the numbers for you, or having a complete fix way to bet until the profit. at a moment i was working on the concept about how the player can be influenced by the last outcome and you are always if you see the ball entering in the spot and you have to bet the next spin. it's a very interresting topic psychologically speaking. so to come back to drtalos grail if we shrink the shrink will not have to be too hard otherwise lets go just to play one number or maybe 4 to expect a profit ? i'm not sure it can work anyway. if we reduce the numbers we play we are more expecting a magical hit than being on statistical considerations.

jerome
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: Reyth on December 27, 2016, 08:47:07 PM
Dr. Talos says that it isn't magical if it works regardless of the numbers you select.

Its not the PARTICULAR numbers its ANY set of numbers bet IN THE WAY that exploits THE ONLY WEAKNESS THE WHEEL HAS.

Quote from: CANON 27 -- The Talos FAQ
How you choose numbers to play?
I use a system to avoid any mistake, and to fasten the game. There is no a better pattern or a best or worst choice, the important is the total numbers played, in the way the system asks for.

That WAY is to have an increasing set of numbers until we get a hit AND a steady set of numbers (static) after we get a hit SO THAT we will always be addressing THE ONLY WEAKNESS THE WHEEL HAS.

The counter-intuitve reason it works is because of the general principle that betting with an increasing number of selections provides better results than simply raising a static selection.

Calculating the proper reduction is hard but I think it would be again based on the ratio:

Quote
Hmmm, I think I have figured something out.  If our ratio is less than 2:120 then we divide the debt by 2 (2 wins), less than 3:180 divide by 3 (3 wins), less than 4:240 divide by 4 (4 wins) & divide everything else by 5 (5 wins).  This kind of seems like a "divisor point" approach to our bet sizing.

I still haven't figured out quite how to do it yet...  I've been thinking, like with the 6 Point Plan, we "return" to the bet selection that corresponds to the ratio; i.e. go back to the bet selection sizing where we were that would be the same thing as the ratio.

For instance if we are 1:128 that is the same as 0:64 (128/2) and so we simply identify what our selection was when we were at 0:64 and use it which will also determine our bet sizing (a window [and thus a divisor] of 2); so our profit should cut the debt in half if we win.

This recalls CANON 5:

Quote
Allows me to introduce you to a concept important: what you need is a practical solution, not a perfect solution. This way, theoretically unsolvable problem can be solved.

And CANON 34:

Quote
Impossible to recover? I need four hits, and several spin to obtain that, and after every hit I reduce my total bet so gaining more "time" to fill my 1/60 ratio.

We are doing the "jellyfish dance" :D

(https://forum.roulette30.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.gifmania.co.uk%2FAnimals-Animated-Gifs%2FAnimated-Marine-Animals%2FJellyfish%2FJellyfish-Black-74247.gif&hash=7831e67fcff288fae14de51f150b6bc8)

We have to turn the jellyfish on its side to really get how it works but I can't do that without losing the animation...
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: jerome26b on December 27, 2016, 08:50:30 PM
Well, I have no idea if I am the only one or not. I think there are several ways and approach to beat the wheel, some of them more efficiently than others.
A guy once told me that if you spend a year playing and the balance at the end is 0, you can consider yourself a winner because you had one year of fun for free!
Is not my opinion though. I started this adventure to get a profit, to gain a living, and a winning method that allows losing streaks or loss stop point wasn't good for me. I wanted to be a consistent winner, I wanted to relay on an additional income, and I found what in the end has become my only income.
I am sorry I will not give more clues of it. You all get the idea and I guess you have the tools to find your way to it. I will point out once again the most important question of them all, and is the most important because if you solve this dilemma you will have the key to the system: How can I keep the balance low so to wait till the numbers come in my favor?
i think differential betting could be the solution playing a winning progression that we expect to win at the end and another progression that will just keep the balance low enough to gain time and units for the first progression to win.

jerome.
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: jerome26b on December 27, 2016, 08:58:22 PM
Dr. Talos says that it isn't magical if it works regardless of the numbers you select.

Its not the PARTICULAR numbers its ANY set of numbers bet IN THE WAY that exploits THE ONLY WEAKNESS THE WHEEL HAS.

That WAY is to have an increasing set of numbers until we get a hit AND a steady set of numbers (static) after we get a hit SO THAT we will always be addressing THE ONLY WEAKNESS THE WHEEL HAS.

Calculating the proper reduction is hard but I think it would be again based on the ratio:

Quote
Hmmm, I think I have figured something out.  If our ratio is less than 2:120 then we divide the debt by 2 (2 wins), less than 3:180 divide by 3 (3 wins), less than 4:240 divide by 4 (4 wins) & divide everything else by 5 (5 wins).  This kind of seems like a "divisor point" approach to our bet sizing.

I still haven't figured out quite how to do it yet...

i agree completely with that and it's the results of some simulations i did increasing until the first hit then stay to a static numbers played just playing with the bankroll to have the statistics in our favour but ... even like that it can fail or go too high or unrecoverable. just try yourself with a sample of spins from a physical roulette...
but i never put yet the lanky divisor on the game so maybe it can help i will simulate it tonight in the rare problematic long streaks of my file.

jerome
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: DrTalos on December 27, 2016, 10:32:01 PM
REYTH. YOU. ARE. AWESOME!
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: Jesper on December 27, 2016, 10:43:13 PM
There are many methods which do not care of which number to bet, just the method.  Some are nothing but a progression.

One method I know which is called "The Roman Cohort" is played exactly the same every time. It is allways the same numbers, and the same progression. The bets are all straight ups.  They use to handle a lot of chips, and are difficult to play on BM, for many reasons. We can never be sure we got the time betting, We can have problem using larger chips, as the numbers needed is a lot more than we want to risk.

I use some of this methods, as I do not think it is possible to know which order the numbers hit anyhow.
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: kav on December 27, 2016, 11:26:35 PM
REYTH. YOU. ARE. AWESOME!
Indeed he is :-)
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: Reyth on December 28, 2016, 02:22:09 AM
i never put yet the lanky divisor on the game so maybe it can help i will simulate it tonight in the rare problematic long streaks of my file.

Awesome!  I think when we flow up and down without concern for how long it might take and just keep in mind the ratio & range, the wheel will eventually favor us without us getting out of control. :)

UPDATE:  I came up with something VERY interesting and counter-intuitive.

I played the following progression:

1 1 1 1 1 2 3 4

Here we reach 0:68 so I used the 5 divisor and came up with the following:

2(!) 2 2 3

WOW!  And with that last bet we got our first hit and so I continued:

2 2

And we achieved our second hit:

4

And our third:

3 4 6

And we win!

I played the following amount of numbers straight up:

5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15
12 13 14
11 11
12 13

Notice the static bet selection of 11 numbers.

So the incredible and novel thing was LOWERING our bet after we lost to the point to where we exceeded 0:60!

1 1 1 1 1 2 3 4 2 2 2 3 2 2 4 3 4 6 <=== Does this look like a playable Martingale?

We started with 5 numbers and our debt maxed out at only -210 where 13 numbers had been played and we started getting hits #2, #3 & #4 subsequent to that with a max of 14 numbers in play at any one time.

The goal is to simply "wait around" for the wheel to cluster hit us so we win.  I simply monitor the balance to see what my debt is and minimize my exposure by using a 5 divisor until a hit is achieved.

Once a hit is achieved, I can get a little more aggressive on the debt because the ratio is lowered again; using a 2 divisor for instance.  After a win, I choose the divisor and the size of the bet selection based on the ratio.

I was able to recover with only a total of 4 hits.  Prior to that I had gained 68 units in winnings, so not bad!

Here is another session:

13....0:81........2....DEBT -136/5=27.2
10....1:81........2....DEBT -90/2=45
11....1:91........3....DEBT -110/2=55
12....1:102......3....DEBT -143/2=71.5
13....1:114......4....DEBT -179/2=89.5
10....2:127......3....DEBT -87
11....2:137......5....DEBT -117
12....2:148......7....DEBT -172

Here I recovered in 3 hits with the progression of:

1 1 1 1 1 2 3 4 2 2 3 3 4 3 5 7

And numbers played:

5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 10 11 12 13 10 11 12

Here we have a static selection of 10 numbers.
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: slpcorner on December 28, 2016, 10:02:40 AM
I've been following the Talos Saga for a good while and reading everyday with building excitement ---- but the last post lost me. I'll backtrack to see if I can make sense of it.

Still cheering you on!
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: Reyth on December 28, 2016, 02:43:29 PM
Sorry about that.  Me and Jerome are just stumbling about here trying to decipher everything and implement the best of what we can comprehend as the Talos method.

To the best of my understanding, there are several components to the method:

1) Bet selection -- how many straight up numbers are bet (maximum of 24 numbers).
2) Bet sizing -- we start out with 1 unit but we must also maintain a ratio & range and so light raises are required.
3) Ratio -- this is the total numbers played (cumulative even if its the same 10 bet selection spun twice, it counts as 20 numbers) VS. the total hits gained (if we play 60 numbers without a hit, the ratio is 0:60).  The Talos method requires that if we reach a ratio of 1:60 we must be in profit.
4) Range -- this is the total number of wins required to achieve profit and must be between 1 and 5.  The way I implement this is by using a divisor, where I divide the debt into the desired range and raise the bet to achieve that target amount should we get a hit.

Here is a session where I went 12 spins without a hit and down 0:126:

5....0:5......1....+31
6....0:11....1....+25
7....0:18....1....+18
8....0:26....1....+10
9....0:35....1....+1

10....0:45....2....+17
11....0:56....3....+17
12....0:68....4....+6

13....0:81....2....DEBT -136/5=27.2
14 ....0:95...2....DEBT -162/5=32.4
15....0:110..2....DEBT -190/5=38
16....0:126..3....DEBT -252/5=50.4

12....1:126..4....DEBT -160/2=80
11....2:138..3....DEBT -64
12....2:150..4....DEBT -97
13....2:163..6....DEBT -145

We can see a static bet selection of 11 numbers, a recovery in 3 hits and the following progression:

1 1 1 1 1 2 3 4 2 2 2 3 4 3 4 6

The bet selection went as follows with a high of 16 S/U bets placed:

5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 12 11 12 13

Prior to this recovery event I had racked up 459 units and recovery only went to -252 units!

This corresponds to CANON 24:

Quote
97% of games ends in the first 14 spins, and almost 70% in first fives. Usually I do not need to put more than 300\$ dollar for every session.

I am starting to feel like Talos in CANON 34:

Quote
Impossible to recover? I need four hits, and several spin to obtain that, and after every hit I reduce my total bet so gaining more "time" to fill my 1/60 ratio.

However, I still haven't hit the MONSTER session he indicates:

Quote
CANON 2

My system gains 0,25 a shot on average [I said, on average I gain 0.25 per spin, that means that in 4 spins I gain one unit.], the bankroll needed is a lot less then 1000 units, and the longest game has been around 90 spins (I do my calculation without writing down outcomes, so cannot be accurate on that). The average game lasts five spins.

CANON 14

I see grossly 600 spins, gaining around 1500/1800 \$ a day. My systems total bankroll
is 950 units (never been close to that. The worst game touched a 590 units).

Here is a short recovery session with recovery in only 2 hits and a pre-existing profit of 65 units:

5....0:5......1....+31
6....0:11....1....+25
7....0:18....1....+18
8....0:26....1....+10
9....0:35....1....+1

10....0:45....2...+17
11....0:56....3...+17
12....0:68....4...+6

13....0:81....2....DEBT -136/5=27.2

10....1:81....4....DEBT -90
11....1:91....6....DEBT -130
12....1:102..8....DEBT -196

1 1 1 1 1 2 3 4 2 4 6 8

5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 10 11 12

Its very interesting!  I just figured out that its not only the bet selection that is like a jellyfish but its the progression too!  Boy it sure has that "unique" feel and like I have never seen anything like it before...

Regarding the "jellyfish" progression:

Quote
CANON 55

As I always stated, the progression is the real HG. And yes, is quite hard to get. It took me two decades, and I crashed in it I should say casually. I was frustrated by the fact that every progression goes higher and higher till they get unplayable, unsustainable.

Just simple logic really, but if a progression is not getting higher and higher it must be getting lower! :D

(https://forum.roulette30.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.gifmania.co.uk%2FAnimals-Animated-Gifs%2FAnimated-Marine-Animals%2FJellyfish%2FJellyfish-Black-74247.gif&hash=7831e67fcff288fae14de51f150b6bc8)

Wow.  So here is the worst session I have seen so far and I got it on video:

https://youtu.be/OWRFoKFtDHU (https://youtu.be/OWRFoKFtDHU)

Sorry its so long with gaps because I am calculating.

5....0:5....1..+31
6....0:11..1..+25
7....0:18..1..+18
8....0:26..1..+10
9....0:35..1..+1

10....0:45..2..+17
11....0:56..3..+17
12....0:68..4..+6

13....0:81..2..DEBT -136/5=27.2
14....0:95..2..DEBT -162/5=32.4
15....0:110..2..DEBT -190/5=38
16....0:126..3..DEBT -252/5=50.4
17....0:133..3..DEBT -268/5=53.6
18....0:151..4..DEBT -319/5=63.8

13....1:151..6..DEBT -247/2=123.5
14....1:164..8..DEBT -325/2=162.5
12....2:178..7..DEBT -149
13....2:190..5..DEBT -233/2=116.5
14....2:203..7..DEBT -298/149
11....3:217..6..DEBT -144
12....3:228..9..DEBT -210

13....3:240..7..DEBT -318/2=159
11....4:253..7..DEBT -157
12....4:264..10..DEBT -234

13....4:276..16..DEBT -354

It starts off with 14 spins without a hit and repeatedly denies my attempts to close the session (red bolded) for a total of 5 wins & 25 spins.  Even so, the debt maxed at only -354.

Interesting to note the bolded where I twice had to "retreat" when I was denied end of session and I was thus forced to use a divisor of 2.

Its also interesting to note that after my first hit (which came late) I was unable to directly attack the debt but had to start with a divisor of 2.

All of these "debt negotiation" moves go a long way to moderating our losses while our chances to hit increase.

5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 13 14 12 13 14 11 12 13 11 12 13

1 1 1 1 1 2 3 4 2 2 2 3 3 4 6 8 7 5 7 6 9 7 7 10 16

Also VERY AMAZING to notice is that even though our progression bets go up our debt is rising at a slower rate!!!  This shows the power of ratios & ranges!  This is quite impossible for me to even imagine "seeing" this in my mind as a technique and I can understand why Talos would say:

Quote from: Dr. Talos
As I always stated, the progression is the real HG. And yes, is quite hard to get. It took me two decades, and I crashed in it I should say casually.

This method creates an environment to more "safely" attack the debt, doing so strategically by using existing profit to "soften" the blow if we miss.  The ratio prevents us from raising our bets too high, forcing us to segment the debt if too many misses occur.

Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: jerome26b on December 29, 2016, 12:01:34 PM
Reyth,

i was out last 24 hours but i'm following again your investigations, in fact i think you're right the key is to include a divisor in the progression. But so your forgot completely about the canon 32 ?
If that's the case it means your system is not the same as MrTalos, but probably on the good way with this progression.

kind regards,

Jérôme
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: Reyth on December 29, 2016, 04:10:53 PM
Yes you are right. :'(

Because I simply don't understand what you guys are talking about with #31 & #32, I basically chucked the whole idea.  The only thing that makes sense to me with it is the 93 pieces in 10 spins and clearly I am not following that.

This is very good that you bring this up because it is a sign that my initial progression is too harsh, which to me indicates that I am starting with too many numbers.  I am reaching 0:60 on spin #8 which is raising the debt too high by spin #10.

Right, the divisor is simply another way of saying that we are betting in a winning range of 2 to 5 but I think another key which I recently discovered is lowering the progression and the bet selection both; maybe you already knew about that, for me it was a revelation and quite counter-intuitive.
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: Ainz on December 29, 2016, 05:14:22 PM
I think you can resolve CANON 32 with CANON 54 and 51. Spin 1 and 2 are both with 18 numbers (18+18=36). Then from spin 3 to 10 with 24 (24*7 = 168) and 168+36 = 228. "the difference is the way I bet after not hitting in the first two spins".

Additionally you have CANON 21 "waiting for a situation to occur, a situation that statistically happens one time every two spins", 18 numbers = even chances.

As he says, in CANON 39 "The game is usually short, because of the large amount of numbers involved."
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: jerome26b on December 29, 2016, 05:22:50 PM
Yes you are right. :'(

Beause I simply don't understand what you guys are talking about with #31 & #32, I basically chucked the whole idea.  The only thing that makes sense to me with it is the 93 pieces in 10 spins and clearly I am not following that.

This is very good that you bring this up because it is a sign that my initial progression is too harsh, which to me indicates that I am starting with too many numbers.  I am reaching 0:60 on spin #8 which is raising the debt too high by spin #10.

Right, the divisor is simply another way of saying that we are betting in a winning range of 2 to 5 but I think another key which I recently discovered is lowering the progression and the bet selection both; maybe you already knew about that, for me it was a revelation and quite counter-intuitive.

i don't agree completely with that idea lowering both to a certain point and you will never recover your balance. so where is the 'breaking point' of no recovery. it's the reason i was thinking about playing at least a minimum good amount of number otherwise the long term /HE will kill you softly ;-). the quicker we finish the less we are exposed to the HE. so for me it's a key to accelerate the game and make it as fast as possible.

jerome.
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: jerome26b on December 29, 2016, 05:24:17 PM
REYTH. YOU. ARE. AWESOME!

MrTalos i think it's your shortest reply on this forum. i hope it's not sarcasm but admiration 😜

jerome
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: Reyth on December 29, 2016, 05:38:41 PM
1) I do not like the fact that we hit a 24 bet selection so unnaturally and so soon.  I believe this defeats the core principle of the system where we have an increasing bet selection upon losses.

2) Also, his post can represent playing a total of 360 numbers in 20 spins which is an average of 18.  Upon investigating this arrangement, I find it quite harsh, being out a minimum of 147 units in 10 spins and using the following core 20 step progression:

12 12 13 14 14 15 16 16 17 18 18 19 20 20 21 22 22 23 24 24

3) The key to lowering one's bet selection and bet sizing is the RANGE of 2-5 which is governed by the RATIO of 1:60 - 5:300.  The game CANNOT lose wildingly and interminably because of the RANGES & RATIOS which guarantee always being AT LEAST 5 wins away from recovery.  This system of ratios/ranges keeps our debt balance as low as possible while waiting for a small cluster of hits (even spread apart by 2-3 spins).

Traditional progressions "push the envelope" trying to force wins on every spin.  Talos rejected that idea and instead proposes a new "envelope" of being relatively close to a 0 debt balance and awaiting some profit to work with before trying to force a win.
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: jerome26b on December 29, 2016, 06:10:45 PM
ok Reyth but he confirmed lately both canons were true. if we assume like me he was always saying right things and not fuzzying the clues there's not so many other ways. i agree that the key is to maintain the progression as low as possible. it's true he was always saying the game is finished in one win sometimes 5 but he never talked about more so even on his longest game of 80-90 spins he was able to finish it with only 5 wins. but 5 wins is under :300 ration so we are going to an average of 3-4 numbers by spin played. On my way i was exploring beyond the 2-5 range in fact but maybe that's why i experienced the unfinished game... even more explain me how his system can go as long as 260 spins with a 5 hits only. he said he never played only one number.

jerome
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: Jesper on December 29, 2016, 06:18:48 PM
WooW red light is on! Soon may be blue! Who got the secret? Will be reboiled at next revision of the game!
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: Reyth on December 29, 2016, 06:19:46 PM
Games can have over 5 wins (spread apart by large amounts of misses) but the key is to always be AT MOST 5 wins away from ending the session with a winning balance, on every spin.

I take this from CANON 27 (The Talos FAQ):

Quote
Did the game ends with the first hit? Only if hits in the firsts spins. Sometimes I need 2 hits, sometimes five…

5 wins can be under :300 but 5:300 is exactly 1:60.  Ya 260 spins should be cleared with 5 wins because of the 1:60 requirement.
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: jerome26b on December 29, 2016, 06:25:46 PM
i found the answer in his last posts he said if he's 370 numbers and 10 spins late he doesn't need 10 hits but 6 so it confirm he can go beyond 5 hits only
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: jerome26b on December 29, 2016, 06:28:25 PM
Reyth,

if we can solve the dilemma of canon 31 & 32 i'm sure we will have the key to his system.

jerome
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: Reyth on December 29, 2016, 06:32:30 PM
For me, I find it impossible and regardless of what he said, I can't figure it out.

I don't feel motivated to pursue that angle.

Let me know what you figure out.
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: jerome26b on December 29, 2016, 06:37:44 PM
For me, I find it impossible and regardless of what he said, I can't figure it out.

I don't feel motivated to pursue that angle.

Let me know what you figure out.

it's probably the reason he's thinking his system is not in danger. i will work anyway to try to solve this dilemma in fact the same dilemma as the one enclosing his whole system like he said clearly. the important thing in my opinion is to just recover in the rare situations we are not grinding. i already got something that is in + in fact in that way but with a stop loss.

jerome.
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: jerome26b on December 29, 2016, 06:43:18 PM
something else do you have an idea what's the use of his clicker ? so there should be a relation of spin number to a fixed progression ?!?
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: Reyth on December 29, 2016, 06:51:05 PM
Ya he said he simplified the system and before that he was (like I am) spending alot of time doing calculations.  I am pretty sure he is mentally counting the wins as well but what really gets me is how he is also able to mentally count the total numbers bet for the ratio.

There is something bizarre about this whole thing where the total numbers bet have become easy for him to track and thus he is running ratios in his head.
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: jerome26b on December 29, 2016, 07:42:35 PM
i'm staying in the idea (maybe wrong) that his system is not doing up and down when hitting and missing it would be impractical to play. imagine already how it's hard at home and in a casino with all distractions and only a clicker to keep your focus... my idea is that it tend to play more number as we miss (canon 31) but when we hit we stay at that level never increasing again the amount of numbers played.

don't forget he's not checking the balance of his current game but just the overall. he said he's putting 300 and when he's 301 or 302 he knows he's in profit. and every game the same so it's not deep calculation every separate game ....

jerome.
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: Reyth on December 29, 2016, 08:22:40 PM
[This was initially posted in Best progression for 4 numbers bet (https://forum.roulette30.com/index.php?topic=1273.0) ]

I will try to suggest what I think I understand to be the Talos method which I call the Jellyfish Method):

1) Bet 4 numbers S/U, on a miss add 1 number until at least 60 numbers have been spun without a hit
1a) If the resulting win will not bring a profit, be sure to raise the chips so that profit will be guaranteed

2) Once beyond 0:60 without a hit, divide the debt by 5 and raise/lower the betting amount to guarantee achieving the divided debt, increasing the size of the selection by 1 until a hit is gained

3) Calculate the debt & calculate the ratio of hits to total cumulative numbers bet.  Set up the bet selection according to the following table:

RATIO...RANGE
-0:60.......1
-0:120.....2
-0:180.....3
-0:240.....4
-0:300.....5

3a) Divide the debt by the range, decrease the size of the selection to match the current ratio and raise the bets to hit at least the divided debt figure.  Repeat step 3 until in profit.

Sorry I can't make it clearer, my brain is hurting. :'(
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: kav on December 29, 2016, 08:38:11 PM
I admit I'm confused. Some questions.

1) Bet 4 numbers S/U, on a miss add 1 number until at least 60 numbers have been spun without a hit
1a) If the resulting win will not bring a profit, be sure to raise the chips so that profit will be guaranteed
We bet 4 random number from the 1st spin?
And on every miss we randomly add more numbers? This means that after 5 lost spins we are betting 9 numbers?

2) Once beyond 0:60 without a hit, divide the debt by 5 and raise/lower the betting amount to guarantee achieving the divided debt, increasing the size of the selection by 1 until a hit is gained

What does "increasing the size of the selection by 1" means? We add more numbers to our bet selection?

RATIO...RANGE
-1:60....1
-1:120...2
-1:180...3
-1:240...4
-1:300...5
3) Calculate the debt & calculate the ratio of hits to total cumulative numbers bet.  Set up the bet selection according to the following table:
But in nr.2 you say "Once beyond 0:60 without a hit, divide the debt by 5". Now I see after 60 the ratio is 1?

Thanks for your effort and patience my friend Reyth.
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: Reyth on December 29, 2016, 08:48:01 PM
I admit I'm confused. Some questions.

1) Bet 4 numbers S/U, on a miss add 1 number until at least 60 numbers have been spun without a hit
1a) If the resulting win will not bring a profit, be sure to raise the chips so that profit will be guaranteed
We bet 4 random number from the 1st spin?
And on every miss we randomly add more numbers? This means that after 5 lost spins we are betting 9 numbers?

1) Yes, bet any 4 numbers you wish.  What numbers you bet doesn't matter.  The only thing that matters is that once you have bet certain numbers, you need to stay on them for as long as possible; at certain times selections must be removed and we should strive to keep the oldest numbers in place imo because this addresses the weakness of the random flow.

2) Yes.  The maximum numbers bet are 24.

Quote
2) Once beyond 0:60 without a hit, divide the debt by 5 and raise/lower the betting amount to guarantee achieving the divided debt, increasing the size of the selection by 1 until a hit is gained

What does "increasing the size of the selection by 1" means? We add more numbers to our bet selection?

Yes.  If we miss on a spin the size of the bet selection automatically increases by 1.  This will provide better results than simply raising the current selection because the probability of achieving a hit is substantially greater when a number is added versus simply raising an existing selection.  Its counter-intuitive which is why we haven't seen anyone betting like this.

Quote
RATIO...RANGE
-1:60....1
-1:120...2
-1:180...3
-1:240...4
-1:300...5
3) Calculate the debt & calculate the ratio of hits to total cumulative numbers bet.  Set up the bet selection according to the following table:
But in nr.2 you say "Once beyond 0:60 without a hit, divide the debt by 5". Now I see after 60 the ratio is 1?

Sigh.  Yes you are holding my feet to the fire here.  This is hard to express properly.  Maybe you can help me.

Lets say for the first example we get a hit after 75 numbers spun.  This represents a ratio of 1:75.  The equivalent ratio is actually 0:38; i.e. we reduce the ratio to its lowest common denominator, zero.  This is less than 0:60 and so we will attack the debt directly, attempting to get full profit in one hit.

We will also configure the size of our bet selection to match that ratio in the betting history; i.e. how many nunmbers were we betting when our ratio was 0:38?

Now lets say that we get our first hit after 150 numbers spun.  This is a ratio of 1:150 and bringing it to its lowest common denominator, 0:75.  So here we see the range is 2 and we will be dividing the debt by 2 (one half), expecting to obtain profit in 2 wins.

This method creates a "jellyfish-like" cycle of extending/shrinking bet sizing and selection which strongly mitigates the effect of the losses until we get a small cluster of hits within a few spins of each other and profit is restored.
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: Reyth on December 29, 2016, 11:36:33 PM
Ok another worst session ever!  The good news is the system held up fine, the bad news is my ratio/range formula is too aggressive!  So like Dr. Talos says, we won't get it right at first but to keep trying and we will.

Here is the 27 spin session, with the worst ratio of 1:226:

5...0:5...1...+31
6...0:11...1...+25
7...0:18...1...+18
8...0:26...1...+10
9...0:35...1...+1

10...0:45...2...+17
11...0:56...3...+17
12...0:68...4...+6

13...0:81...2...DEBT -136/5=27.2

10...1:81...4...DEBT -90
11...1:91...6...DEBT -130
12...1:102...9...DEBT -196
13...1:114...14...DEBT -304
14...1:127...11...DEBT -486/2=-243
15...1:141...14...DEBT -607/2=-303.5
16...1:156...20...DEBT -775/2=-387.5
17...1:172...28...DEBT -1035/2=-517.5
18...1:189...27...DEBT -1427/3=-475
19...1:207...36...DEBT -1832/3=-610.6
20...1:226...36...DEBT -2408/4=-602

14...2:246...27...DEBT -1724/3=-574.67
15...2:260...35...DEBT -2102/3=700.67
16...2:275...44...DEBT -2627/3=875.67
14...3:291...27...DEBT -1747/3=582.34
12...4:306...24...DEBT -1153/2=576.5
13...4:318...32...DEBT -1441/2=720.5
11...5:331...29...DEBT -705

5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 14 15 16 14 12 13 11

1 1 1 1 1 2 3 4 2 4 6 9 14 11 14 20 28 27 36 36 27 35 44 27 24 32 29

The red bolded is where I am too aggressive.  I will take single shots at the debt as long as the equivalent ratio is less than 0:60 (so in this case, less than 1:120).

The crisis came in with the bolded where there was 10 spins in a row with no hits.

The purple shows where I switched divisors.

The first solution that I am going to implement is to reduce the total numbers I start with to 3 in the core progression.  That should have a profound effect in the deeper part of the session.

So now the core progression (the progression before our first hit) is as follows:

3...---...-3.....1.....+33
4...0:3...-7.....1.....+29
5...0:7...-12.....1.....+24
6...0:12...-18.....1.....+18
7...0:18...-25.....1.....+11
8...0:25...-33.....1.....+3

9...0:33...-51.....2.....+29
10...0:42...-71.....2.....+10

11...0:52...-104.....3.....+4

12...0:63...-116.....1.....DEBT -104/5=20.8
13...0:75...-142.....2.....DEBT -116/5=23.2
14...0:88...-170.....2.....DEBT -142/5=28.4
15...0:102...-200.....2.....DEBT -170/5=34
16...0:117...-248.....3.....DEBT -200/5=40
17...0:133...-299.....3.....DEBT -248/5=49.6
18...0:150...-317.....4.....DEBT -299/5=59.8

Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: DrTalos on December 30, 2016, 01:00:05 AM
Ok, here a little help.
First of all, I suggest you to consider all my words true. There is no real advantage in thinking that I messing things deliberately to make difficult to you all understand my system. I think you will not find it, but in the meanwhile you can have a solution that differs from mine but still remain effective. That was my original purpose, if you check my posts.
Second, I do not count mentally the balance and the ratio, I just check the counter on the monitor or the total of my chips if I play on a table (that is a very rare situation). When I have more chips than the beginning of the session, I consider the game over. My experience and my calculation, in advance and after a game, found me the needed ratio to be a winner, but is not my way to know when the game is in profit.
I understand you are trying to find the solution empirically, or with a sort of a reverse engineering. Can work, but I had first the "philosophical" idea and then I originated the system. The question is always the same.
I don't play at the beginning straight numbers, I play groups (can be dozens, even chances, double streets...) so to have few chips on the board (remember, we need the balance to stay low).

My sentence on Reyth was serious. I admire his efforts. I guess my original post is almost a year old, and took a lot of time to see people starting taking it seriously and start working, but at the end someone did it and I am happy for this.
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: Reyth on December 30, 2016, 01:22:48 AM
Wow Jerome you were right!  Congratulations!!

You can just tell from the way Talos is speaking that he is the creator and originator of this system; all I can say is that I have heard this sort of talk before and it has the distinct ring of truth. :)

Well, before I go back to the drawing board, here is a short session with the new progression:

3....---....-3....1....+33
4....0:3....-7....1....+29
5....0:7....-12....1....+24
6....0:12....-18....1....+18
7....0:18....-25....1....+11
8....0:25....-33....1....+3

9....0:33....-51....2....+29
10....0:42....-71....2....+10

11....0:52....-104....3....+4

12....0:63....-116....1....DEBT -104/5=20.8

10....1:75....4....DEBT -80
11....1:85....5....DEBT -120

3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 10 11

1 1 1 1 1 1 2 2 3 1 4 5

Now I must accustom my mind to thinking in a manner that begins by using group bets and try and decide when to switch over to straight up bets...

Ok Jerome, now I see what you meant by pivot...

My personal choice would be to use double streets because they pay the best...

If EC's are to be used, they must be HIGH/LOW...

The problem with the pivot on an EC or even a Dozen is that it requires a great deal of felt coverage to make it effective over the long term; it requires 18 or 12 S/U bets to keep those areas covered.

Ok, I have come up with a very unique way to reach 0:60 with group betting:

1) Bet any 1 of the 3 dozens as the pivot for 2 spins 1 unit.
2) Bet the 2 double streets of that dozen 1 unit
3) Bet 3 of that dozen SU 1 unit, 1 street of that dozen 1 unit & 1 DS of that dozen, 2 units

4) Bet 1 DS of that dozen 4 units and 6 numbers of that dozen SU

This will yield exactly 60 numbers bet with a total deficit of 20 units; compare that with my progression which is slightly over 100 units and there is an obvious and massive improvement.

5) Bet all 12 of that dozen SU 1 units each
(recovery begins)
6) Walk out single bets of 1 unit each spin until 16 numbers are covered (spin #10)

This yields a deficit of 90 units and a ratio of 0:130 in 10 spins.

So the following core progression is below:

DOZ........................................-1....0:12...............32.44%
DOZ........................................-2....0:24...............54.35%
DS(2)....................................-4....0:36.................69.15%
DS(1*2)/STR/SU(3).......-10....0:48.................79.16%
DS(1*4)/SU(6)   .............-20....0:60.................85.92%

SU(12)..................................-32/5=6.4.....0:72.....90.48%
SU(13)..................................-45/5=9.0.....0:85.....93.57%
SU(14)..................................-59/5=11.8.....0:99...95.66%
SU(15)..................................-74/5=14.8.....0:114..97.07%
SU(16)..................................-90/5=18.0.....0:130..98.02%

SU(17*2)..............................-124/5=24.8.....0:147..98.67%
SU(18*2)..............................-160/5=32.0.....0:165..99.10%
SU(19*2)..............................-198/5=39.6.....0:184..99.39% <=== Dr. Talos 100K spins
SU(20*3)..............................-258/5=51.6.....0:204..99.58%
SU(21*3)..............................-321/5=64.2.....0:225..99.72%
[22]
[23]
[24]
[1]
[2]
[3]
[4]
[5]
[6]
[7] <=== practically guaranteed hit on spin 25 which is 1:462

The chances of hitting for immediate profit (no recovery required) is 90.48%; all percentages below that are the chances for the original 12 to hit.

Btw the chances of getting to 24 numbers bet is 787 out of 16M which is 0.0000491875 or 1 in 20,330.  Once there, the max expected consecutive loss is 6.

Ok so here is the first session with the new method and it is SIGNIFICANTLY easier on the bankroll which is thrilling me immensely:

DOZ.................................-1................0:12
DOZ.................................-2................0:24
DS(2)...............................-4................0:36
DS(1*2)/STR/SU(3)........-10..............0:48
DS(1*4)/SU(6)..............-20..............0:60

SU(12)........................-32/5=6.4.....0:72
SU(13)........................-45/5=9........0:85
SU(14)........................-59/5=11.8....0:99
SU(15)........................-74/5=14.8....0:114

12...1:114...2...DEBT -38
13...1:127...2...DEBT -62/2=31
14...1:140...2...DEBT -88/2=44
15...1:154...3...DEBT -116/2=58
12...2:169...3...DEBT -53

1 1 1 1 2 2 2 3 3

12 12 12 12 12 12 13 14 15 12 13 14 15 12

Prior to this recovery event I was up 253 units and my recovery debt capped at only 116 units.

I could never produce something this smooth with my original method; I can't help it I am just a dunce when it comes to being creatively imaginative... >.<

(https://forum.roulette30.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi63.tinypic.com%2F2mfewwj.jpg&hash=da1d25a834ddf51e553be77077f94b5b)

DOZ........................................-1....0:12...............32.44%
DOZ........................................-2....0:24...............54.35%
DS(2)....................................-4....0:36.................69.15%
DS(1*2)/STR/SU(3).......-10....0:48.................79.16%
DS(1*4)/SU(6)   .............-20....0:60.................85.92%

SU(12)..................................-32/5=6.4.....0:72.....90.48%
SU(13)..................................-45/5=9.0.....0:85.....93.57%
SU(14)..................................-59/5=11.8.....0:99...95.66%
SU(15)..................................-74/5=14.8.....0:114..97.07%

12...1:114...2...DEBT -58
13...1:126...2...DEBT -67/2=33.5
14...1:139...3...DEBT -93/2=46.5
12...2:153...2...DEBT -27

1 1 1 1 2 2 3 2

12 12 12 12 12 12 13 14 15 12 13 14 12

=====

DOZ........................................-1....0:12...............32.44%
DOZ........................................-2....0:24...............54.35%
DS(2)....................................-4....0:36.................69.15%
DS(1*2)/STR/SU(3).......-10....0:48.................79.16%
DS(1*4)/SU(6)   .............-20....0:60.................85.92%

SU(12)..................................-32/5=6.4.....0:72.....90.48%
SU(13)..................................-45/5=9.0.....0:85.....93.57%
SU(14)..................................-59/5=11.8.....0:99...95.66%
SU(15)..................................-74/5=14.8.....0:114..97.07%
SU(16)..................................-90/5=18.0.....0:130..98.02%

SU(17*2)..............................-124/5=24.8.....0:147..98.67%

12   1:147   2   DEBT -52/2=26
13   1:159   2   DEBT -76/2=38
12   2:172   2   DEBT -30
13   2:184   2   DEBT -54/2=27
12   3:197   1   DEBT -8
13   3:209   1   DEBT -20

1 1 1 1 1 2 2 2 2 1 1

12 12 12 12 12 12 13 14 15 16 17 12 13 12 13 12 13

=====

DOZ........................................-1....0:12...............32.44%
DOZ........................................-2....0:24...............54.35%
DS(2)....................................-4....0:36.................69.15%
DS(1*2)/STR/SU(3).......-10....0:48.................79.16%
DS(1*4)/SU(6)   .............-20....0:60.................85.92%

SU(12)..................................-32/5=6.4.....0:72.....90.48%
SU(13)..................................-45/5=9.0.....0:85.....93.57%
SU(14)..................................-59/5=11.8.....0:99...95.66%

12   1:99     2   DEBT -41

1 1 1 2

12 12 12 12 12 13 14 12

=====

Got this next recovery on video:

https://youtu.be/FydDljRNThQ (https://youtu.be/FydDljRNThQ)

DOZ........................................-1....0:12...............32.44%
DOZ........................................-2....0:24...............54.35%
DS(2)....................................-4....0:36.................69.15%
DS(1*2)/STR/SU(3).......-10....0:48.................79.16%
DS(1*4)/SU(6)   .............-20....0:60.................85.92%

SU(12)..................................-32/5=6.4.....0:72.....90.48%
SU(13)..................................-45/5=9.0.....0:85.....93.57%

12....1:85....1....DEBT -9
13....1:97....1....DEBT -21
14....1:110...2...DEBT -34
15....1:124...2....DEBT -62/2=31
12....2:139...1....DEBT -20
13....2:151...2....DEBT -32

1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 2 2 1 2

12 12 12 12 12 13 12 13 14 15 12 13

=====

DOZ........................................-1....0:12...............32.44%
DOZ........................................-2....0:24...............54.35%
DS(2)....................................-4....0:36.................69.15%
DS(1*2)/STR/SU(3).......-10....0:48.................79.16%
DS(1*4)/SU(6)   .............-20....0:60.................85.92%

SU(12)..................................-32/5=6.4.....0:72.....90.48%
SU(13)..................................-45/5=9.0.....0:85.....93.57%
SU(14)..................................-59/5=11.8.....0:99...95.66%

12   1:99...2   DEBT -37

=====

Now I would like to do 4 things:

1) Replay the very worst sequence from my old progression with my new progression
2) Conduct an experiment to see what would happen if the bet selection were allowed to extend beyond 24 chips; not that it is practical but what the effect would be of adding bets VS. just betting 24 repeatedly 7 times.
3) Simulate Talos Daystm in an attempt to double my table bank
4) Point out an interesting statistical fact about the Talos method

I will start with #4.  It is very interesting to note that betting an EC 200 times is actually 3600 numbers and applying the Talos ratio to those 3600 numbers will yield 60 hits!  Yes that's right, its less than the famous 65 hits in 200 spins!!  Just thought I would point that out since its kind of amazing, don't you think?

Regarding #2, I have found there is no difference to the max loss between extending the bet selection and leaving it at 24 bets; i.e. the max extension is 30 bets which is the same as 24+6.

Now for replaying, lets check the data points:

1:81

DOZ........................................-1....0:12...............32.44%
DOZ........................................-2....0:24...............54.35%
DS(2)....................................-4....0:36.................69.15%
DS(1*2)/STR/SU(3).......-10....0:48.................79.16%
DS(1*4)/SU(6)   .............-20....0:60.................85.92%

SU(12)..................................-32/5=6.4.....0:72.....90.48%
SU(13)..................................-45/5=9.0.....0:85.....93.57%

12 1:85  1 DEBT -11

2:246

13 1:98 2 DEBT -23
14 1:112 3 DEBT -49
15 1:126 3 DEBT -91/2=45.5
16 1:141 4 DEBT -136/2=68
17 1:157 6 DEBT -200/2=100
18 1:174 6 DEBT -302/3=100.67
19 1:193 8 DEBT -410/3=136.67
20 1:212 12 DEBT -562/3=187.33
21 1:232 18 DEBT -802/3=267.33

3:291

13 2:253 12 DEBT -532/2=266
14 2:266 16 DEBT -688/2=344
15 2:280 22 DEBT -912/2=456

4:306

13 3:295 10 DEBT -450/2=225

5:331

12 4:308 5 DEBT -220/2=110
13 4:320 7 DEBT -280/2=140

6:342

12 5:333 5 DEBT -119

1 1 1 2 3 3 4 6 6 8 12 18 12 16 22 10 5 7 5

12 12 12 12 12 12 13 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 13 14 15 13 12 13 12

Well, at least here we remain within the 1400 units and cap out at -912 and this is quite obviously a vast improvement over my progression which had a max debt of -2627.

I feel a bit unsettled though about letting the progression get as high as it did; I allowed it because the ratio allowed it and didn't call for the next level of divisor.  The divisor (range of 2-5) maintains the integrity of the system where 1:60 will equal profit, so if I mess with that, advancing it too soon, I will mess with the final result of 1:60.

One alternative that I just thought of is Ahcoln's banking system where we simply say, cut the debt in half, putting one half in Bank 1 and playing the other half.

Talos keeps harping on how can we keep our expenses as low as possible and one way that is not necessarily apparent is by playing as many numbers as possible for the least amount of money possible.  Right now I have 60 numbers for 20 units, can I do better than that?

I could simply bet a dozen 5 times with 1 1 2 3 4 for only 11 units which is a 45% savings.  I could also "invest" in 12 more numbers and play for an additional spin (1 1 2 3 4 6) and still save 3 units.  I think I will try this way, play 1 Doz for 1 1 2 3 4 6, I think it provides a greater defense for variance to have to climb over.

=====

WHOOPS!  This just went "click" in my head:

Quote
CANON 54

For example playing 18 numbers in the first and second spin, then 24 from the 3rd to the 10th...

Wouldn't you know it?  18 + 18 +[24*8]=228 exactly.  We know he is down 93 pieces exactly, but I can't figure out what it would take to get that figure...

Checking Jerome's method...

=====

Regarding simulation of Talos Daystm, I have the following data:

Quote
CANON 14

I see grossly 600 spins, gaining around 1500/1800 \$ a day. My systems total bankroll
is 950 units (never been close to that. The worst game touched a 590 units).

Why you are not rich?
In an average day, you can play 8/10 hours, with frequent stops. Most of all, because looking at a wheel is boring (I usually browse the internet meanwhile, because you don’t need much attention in the first 10 spins, or chatting or using Facebook etc. etc.). The airball machine, that is faster than live roulette (close to 1 spin every fifty seconds) allows me to profit 30/40 units hr. I play with 3\$ chips, so my day ends when I get 1000\$. That goes two/three days a week.
With a 3\$ unit chip, for 1400 bankroll needed, I bring with me 4500\$.

So we see he will call it a "day" when he gains \$1000-\$1800; which is 334-600 units.

This is very nice as he is doubling his table bank every 3-4 days!

So, my goal then is to double my table bank in 2 "days" and double my stakes in a "week" which is 7 "days".  This equates to 700 units a "day":

Week 1

Day 1: 700 units; 10 sessions of 70 units
Day 2: 700 units; 10 sessions of 70 units
Day 3: 700 units; 10 sessions of 70 units
Day 4: 700 units; 10 sessions of 70 units
Day 5: 700 units; 10 sessions of 70 units
Day 6: 700 units; 10 sessions of 70 units
Day 7: 700 units; 10 sessions of 70 units
Total : 4900 units

From the 3rd day on, even if I lose my entire table bank, I won't be down any money.

On Week 2 I will double my stakes, using 100% of the casino's money.

So let's get spinning...

Here is a game that brought me halfway through my first session of the day:

DZ...........-1.......0:12
DZ...........-2.......0:24
DZ(2).......-4.......0:36
DZ(3).......-7.......0:48
DZ(4).......-11.......0:60
DZ(6).......-17.......0:72

SU(12).......-29.......0:84
SU(13).......-42.......0:97
SU(14).......-56.......0:111

12.......1:111.......1.......DEBT -20
13.......1:123.......1.......DEBT -32/2=16
14.......1:136.......1.......DEBT -45/2=22.5
15.......1:150.......2.......DEBT -59/2=29.5
16.......1:165.......3.......DEBT -89/2=44.5
17.......1:181.......3.......DEBT -137/3=45.67
18.......1:199.......4.......DEBT -188/3=62.67
12.......2:217.......3.......DEBT -116/2=58
13.......2:229.......4.......DEBT -152/2=76
12.......3:242.......2.......DEBT -60/2=30
13.......3:254.......2.......DEBT -84/2=42
12.......4:267.......1.......DEBT -38
13.......4:279.......3.......DEBT -62
14.......4:292.......3.......DEBT -101/2=50.5
12.......5:306.......2.......DEBT -35
13.......5:318.......3.......DEBT -59

1 1 1 1 1 1 2 3 3 4 3 4 2 2 1 3 3 2 3

12 12 12 12 12 12 12 13 14 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 12 13 12 13 12 13 14 12 13

We can see it was a bit of a struggle with 25 spins but everything remained under control with the max debt at only -188 units and the wheel's only weakness simply just paid us off.
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: Reyth on December 30, 2016, 08:43:14 PM
@Jerome:  I do not envy your position.  Having maxed out all possible betting selections (24 total bets) you are at a ratio of 0:228 which is not necessarily bad because its still in the range of 4 wins.

We need to take the debt of 93 units and divide by 4 which is 23.25.  Ok, so whatever bet selection we configure, it needs to generate a profit of 24 units in order to maintain the ratio integrity of the system.

Lets say that we start at 12 and steadily increase from there (although on the 11th spin my system will place 16 total bets). if we raise 2 units that will generate a base win amount of 70 minus (11*2=22)=48 so were good.

I would do something like this:

12(2)
13(2)
14(3)
15
16 etc.

Your advantage is in the very high numbers already played.  Watch the ratio because if you go equal or over 240 numbers bet, you must increase your divisor of the debt to 5.

You actually have nothing to worry about.  You aren't in trouble or anything, your debt is quite reasonable (how in the heck is it even possible to lose 0:228 anyway?!  Actually I have seen it but only once and it hit instead of going 0:228).  Just simply wait until you get a win and take a strong shot at bringing the debt solidly down.

We need to have faith in the Wheel's Only Weaknesstm and confidence in our ratio-range support system if things should go south.

Anyway, I am trying out 10 spins for 0:126 and a debt of 71 units.  You actually seem to have the stronger position its just that it is so ugly having to decrease from 24 total bets placed... >.<

Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: jerome26b on December 30, 2016, 09:34:01 PM
Ok, here a little help.
First of all, I suggest you to consider all my words true. There is no real advantage in thinking that I messing things deliberately to make difficult to you all understand my system. I think you will not find it, but in the meanwhile you can have a solution that differs from mine but still remain effective. That was my original purpose, if you check my posts.
Second, I do not count mentally the balance and the ratio, I just check the counter on the monitor or the total of my chips if I play on a table (that is a very rare situation). When I have more chips than the beginning of the session, I consider the game over. My experience and my calculation, in advance and after a game, found me the needed ratio to be a winner, but is not my way to know when the game is in profit.
I understand you are trying to find the solution empirically, or with a sort of a reverse engineering. Can work, but I had first the "philosophical" idea and then I originated the system. The question is always the same.
I don't play at the beginning straight numbers, I play groups (can be dozens, even chances, double streets...) so to have few chips on the board (remember, we need the balance to stay low).

My sentence on Reyth was serious. I admire his efforts. I guess my original post is almost a year old, and took a lot of time to see people starting taking it seriously and start working, but at the end someone did it and I am happy for this.
It tooks you 2 decades we are not in a hurry specially with all the clues you gave here. But I know it can be even more difficult with the clues cause we can be blind about the philosophical idea you're talking about. I don't know if your progression is inspired from any other progression, if it's a mix, adaptation or maybe two combined progressions.
It's crazy when you check on all Internet forums to see how many progressions/money management systems people where already tried. Finally your progression is probably more a money management method in fact. Like I said before it could even be a staking plan. Yesterday evening I started to change the main progression I was using cause it didn't make sense for me finally to keep the same amount to bet from spin 4 to 10 and only wining 6 on the first hit. I know your are playing chances and not numbers, numbers are not practical to play at all in a casino. I played à numbers system once in an online casino after hours it makes you crazy and it's easy to do a simple mistake and I was often short on the betting time to place all my bets. I'm trying now to find a progression when you just got direct profit at the first 2 hits, it gave me a problem to accept that cause it means the 3 rd spin if it's a hit we are just in the ratio 1:60 but we will not be in profit but I was supposing maybe your ratio is for the recovery and maybe not at the beginning.
I'm still convinced like I said few posts ago that to find your system we have to act more like a profiler to find your philosophical stone :-)
It's funny cause I saw a documentary this afternoon about some criminals that commits hold ups in france. They were called the 'mice gang' or le gang des souris in french. They stole many protected case full of money from transporters. And nobody know how they can use it cause the system was supposed to be 100% safe with the ink will color the notes with an intrusion. But finally they just got used a simple system to open slightly the box before the ink is released and inject oil inside. The oil was protecting the notes of the ink that was delivered and they simple washed all the notes in a washing machine and dried them one by one. It's out of topic but it means just seeing things on other angle and we can find a solution to impossible problems. Impossible things is a limitation on our mind and like in this case the solution was so simple but genious.

Jerome
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: jerome26b on December 30, 2016, 10:54:46 PM
Wow Jerome you were right!  Congratulations!!

You can just tell from the way Talos is speaking that he is the creator and originator of this system; all I can say is that I have heard this sort of talk before and it has the distinct ring of

WHOOPS!  This just went "click" in my head:

Quote
CANON 54

For example playing 18 numbers in the first and second spin, then 24 from the 3rd to the 10th...

Wouldn't you know it?  18 + 18 +[24*8]=228 exactly.  We know he is down 93 pieces exactly, but I can't figure out what it would take to get that figure...

Checking Jerome's method...

=====

Reyth,

I'm'surprised you just see that now about the 228 numbers like I said there's not so many solutions and all include playing 24 numbers from spin 3 to spin 10. In fact I solved the 1:60 game when it's short meaning until maybe 600 numbers played. The only issue is I got a bad série that will go too high to be recoverable with the way I was playing the system...but I tell you until 600 numbers I need 10 hits but the situation arise I was not able to have these 10 hits even playing big amount of number (minimum of 12 every spin)

Jerome.
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: Reyth on December 30, 2016, 11:09:47 PM
Ya the statement struck me as so "obvious in your face I am giving this away" that I read it as "fake" or "metaphorical" and just now looked at it literally.

Obviously you don't mean 0:600 because we will all die and not ever see  that.

The best thing we can do regarding bad sequences is, EXPOSE THEM TO THE LIGHT so we can analyze them from the beginning.

Do you keep your bets in line with your bank balance, reflecting always a bet amount that is proportional to the current ratio?  Are you raising the total number of your bets upon a loss to increase your odds of getting a massively advantageous hit?

If you do this, I do not see how it could really get out of control; I mean 1400 units is actually somewhat tame for a bank balance and even if we don't double it, we could literally write off half the debt any time and put it in a numbered bank...

I am sure this sequence is a rare one and you are likely to double your table bank before you see it again.
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: jerome26b on December 30, 2016, 11:18:16 PM
Of course it's not 0:600. It can never happen cause it would mean like having same dozen hitting maybe 25 spins in a row I don't know the record but the most I saw from now is 9 times only so it would mean going to spin 11 in the worst scenario. If I play a static numbers after first hit it's not so difficult to keep a track even mentally. And I know at a moment I.be to double my bet to keep the 1/60 ratio. When I hit in a row it's always good and will achieve the ratio the problem is when i miss and hit then the things are going more complicated to calculate and at the end to achieve without going down. The canon 32 is giving me a lot of trouble anyway ;-) for me having a system that is failing once when you statically always win two time more I will consider it as an HG

Jerome
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: Reyth on December 30, 2016, 11:31:17 PM
Well I am more of an analyst myself and so I calculate the ranges and ratios with every spin and will be programming the comp to do it for me.  One VERY powerful aspect of the divisor point betting method is that it profits from chop but since we are betting straight up and usually less than 18 numbers, that doesn't apply as much here...

Pardon me saying so but it sounds like you are maybe betting impulsively (maybe your ratio is too far out of whack and you need a hit quickly) hoping for a cluster but get crushed when it eludes you?

I haven't missed a 1:60 ratio yet because I meticulously size my bets according to the ratio.  Talos only became able to "shoot from the hip" with his calculations after long study and perfecting of the ratio-range system.

Notice he says so here:

Quote from: Talos_Canon
CANON 47

Maybe I already said that, but the HG didn't come to me complete. The original idea has been tweaked to reach his actual shape. I admit that at the beginning was hard to manage, because of the notes and calculus I had to perform while playing, then I was able to simplify it.

Note that we are in the "performing calculations" stage of this process that he went through.

If you maintain the calculation and bet sizing discipline, I don't see how your game will get out of control.

On the other hand, if we let our impulses be our guide, we simply get frustrated and burn out when our failures overtake us.  I know you have failed alot in roulette like I have and so you know how dangerous of a game it is.

Only discipline will protect us, its a Player's Edge, "performing according to the rules of our system perfectly".
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: jerome26b on December 30, 2016, 11:50:45 PM

Pardon me saying so but it sounds like you are maybe betting impulsively (maybe your ratio is too far out of whack and you need a hit quickly) hoping for a cluster but get crushed when it eludes you?

you got a good point here but i will correct you in fact yes i'm hopping for a cluster but if i have to raise my bet it's just to try to achieve the 1:60 ratio in fact, at some moments i'm just in situation where i see if i don't raise i will not achieve it, as simple as that. When i hit and i'm close from profit i can reduce my bet again, it's the easiest situation in fact. The only problem is when i'm going too away from profit, at a moment if you don't raise it's impossible to recover completely (or games that will stay forever like i told before) so progression have to bepart of the game at a moment when you are going away from profit.
What i'm not able to put all together yet is playing more number when we miss, playing more numbers ill generate less profit so i go to the same step as game that will never finish, there's a point i can't understand there.... and it's in CANON 32 probably...

Jérôme
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: Reyth on December 30, 2016, 11:58:41 PM
So far I have not yet encountered any ratio greater than 0:240 (or its equivalent) which means that every bet of my game is within 5 hits of a WIN.  As long as my bet sizing remains within 5 hits of a WIN, my game is not out of control.

All I have to do is properly size & number my bets and the the Wheel's Only Weaknesstm does the rest.  I am in no hurry except to be 100% accurate the best I can with every spin.

The ratio ALWAYS tells me EXACTLY how much to bet and I always increase the total number of my bets after a loss (except in the first 7 bets) to increase my odds of getting a hit and to further address the only weakness the wheel has.

I also always lower my bets after a win (rarely I will remain at the minimum of 12 bets at the tail end of a game) to give myself "more time to hit my 1:60 ratio", trusting that the Wheel's Only Weaknesstm will pay me off like it must because it is indebted to equal chances, 37 times in a row.
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: Reyth on December 31, 2016, 01:54:19 AM
What i'm not able to put all together yet is playing more number when we miss, playing more numbers ill generate less profit so i go to the same step as game that will never finish, there's a point i can't understand there....

Ok this is also counter-intuitive and a core principle of the Talos system.

Yes its true that at first, adding a single number after a loss is so negligible that the profit it loses when you get your hit isn't worth doing it.

But this is like throwing the baby out with the bath water (babies grow you know!?).

Let's look at an example of 10 spins from our core 12:

#0.....12.....32.43%
#1.....13.....54.35%/2.7%
#2.....14.....69.15%/5.33%/2.7%
#3.....15.....79.16%/7.89%/5.33%/2.7%
#4.....16.....85.91%/10.38%/7.89%/5.31%/2.7% <==== EXPECTATION NOW FIGHTING FOR US
#5.....17.....90.48%/12.8%/10.38%/7.89%/5.31%/2.7%  vvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvv
#6.....18.....93.57%/15.17%/12.8%/10.38%/7.89%/5.31%/2.7%
#7.....19.....95.66%/17.46%/15.17%/12.8%/10.28%/7.89%/5.31%/2.7%
#8.....20.....97.07%/19.7%/17.46%/15.17%/12.8%/10.28%/7.89%/5.31%/2.7%
#9.....21.....98.02%/21.85%/19.7%/17.46%/15.17%/12.8%/10.28%/7.89%/5.31%/2.7%
#10...22.....98.67%/23.94%/21.85%/19.7%/17.46%/15.17%/12.8%/10.28%/7.89%/5.31%/2.7%

^^^^^^^^^DOUBLE EXPECTATION^^^^^^^^^
(https://diaspora.hzsogood.net/camo/dd58cb1c3c8553fbf47fe1c7d2a4fc9c8f651233/68747470733a2f2f34392e6d656469612e74756d626c722e636f6d2f31646137326437633139343236353466626164343634313239356432313430342f74756d626c725f6e72327976327268324b31726936316c306f315f3430302e676966)

Starting at only the 4th spin, we have in excess of a combined 100% expectation of a hit; now we start to eat away at variance itself and not just probability.

At the end of 10 complete spins our single selection of 12 still has almost 1.5% chance of not hitting and it will never be 100% of itself (remember Talos said not to rely on a single event).  I would much rather look to the right and see a whole line of soldiers ready to fight for me with every spin than to be left out in the cold all by myself!

And we haven't even addressed the fact of the massive setup that is available with those added numbers after we get our hits; we can keep them in the game too so our next cycle is even stronger!!

This is why we see the pattern again and again of clusters of hits in recovery for a win!

This is the power of the Talos system and it is a graphical depiction of the only weakness the wheel has.

Getting a hit is EVERYTHING.  Its the only thing that matters (as long as we are keeping our expenses as low as we possibly can)!  Getting a single hit is what wins games!!  Profit that we may hurl at the monster of a roulette wheel!!!

(https://forum.roulette30.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F2.bp.blogspot.com%2F-TYXAaOfd_rI%2FU3khaLJKAgI%2FAAAAAAAABhg%2FmFS1WgtcMNE%2Fs1600%2F5zawdmihw131ubpljyzpfo74i.320x240x49.gif&hash=6858f1e8eb6da8d8c4c29a21ddc18546)

This is why I fully embrace the Talos doctrine of raising the total number of my bets after a loss. :)
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: Reyth on December 31, 2016, 10:42:25 AM
@Jerome:  Ok I finally hit the session you are talking about.  Yes, it went to 16:958 <=== no that is not a typo

Very tired atm.  Posting the data points.

My first instinct is to want to quote the Canon about how he had around 90 spins once.

I will deal with this when I wake up.

DZ         -1            0:12
DZ         -2            0:24
DZ(2)      -4            0:36
DZ(3)      -7            0:48
DZ(4)      -11            0:60
DZ(6)      -17            0:72

SU(12)      -29            0:84
SU(13)      -42            0:97
SU(14)      -56            0:111
SU(15)      -71            0:126
SU(16)      -87/5=17.4      0:142

SU(17*2)   -121/5=24.2      0:160

12   1:160
13   1:172

12   2:185
13   2:198
14   2:211
15   2:225
16   2:240
17   2:256
18   2:273

12   3:291
13   3:303
14   3:316
15   3:330
16   3:345
17   3:361
18   3:378

14   4:396
15   4:410
16   4:425

13   5:441
14   5:445
15   5:459
16   5:474

12   6:490
13   6:502

12   7:515
13   7:527
14   7:540
15   7:554
16   7:569
17   7:585

12   8:602
13   8:614
14   8:627
15   8:641
16   8:657

12   9:673

12   10:685
13   10:697
14   10:711
15   10:726

12   11:741
13   11:753
14   11:766
15   11:780
16   11:795

12    12:811
13   12:823

12   13:836
13   13:848
14   13:861

12   14:875
13   14:887
14   14:900
15   14:914
16   14:930

12   15:946

Just shy of 70 spins.

What my experience is telling me is that the only way to withstand something like this is to either go virtual betting or lower the bets enough to be safe.

The divisor bet has a safety brake where you can raise it over and over during periods of successive losses.

He keeps telling us the question:

How can you keep your costs down until the wheel comes back in our favor?

The only answer I have is the safety brake because he obviously isn't indicating virtual betting here.

The safety brake is described in this post:

https://forum.roulette30.com/index.php?topic=1016.msg17601#msg17601

And more completely here:

http://www.grandstand.com.au/retirementstakingplan/

If we work really hard at this staking plan we can withstand these 70-90 spin sequences but it is going to take alot of work and study.
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: jerome26b on December 31, 2016, 12:15:36 PM
Reyth,

yes it's the reason it really help to have always a file of real spins to test any system/method extensively. 2000 spins is already a very good basis cause many systems (i would say 99,99%) are crashing under this sample.

virtual betting are you serious about that ? the virtual betting concept is pure gambler fallacy, think about it when you're not tired  ;D it's a way i will never accept in any serious system.

kind regards,

Jérôme
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: Reyth on December 31, 2016, 07:00:13 PM
Ya the point is that he had games with 50, 70 & even 90 spins and HE DIDN'T LOSE.  He has to be lowering his bet sizing.

In fact, his bank balance never even hit 1000 units.  He says that "usually" he doesn't need more than 300 units.  I think that if our debt balance hits 300+ we need to apply the brake and start being even more incredibly careful than usual about our bet sizing.

The way I see it is we have 5 possible divisors connected to 5 ratios, where the divisor is normally from 1-5 but there will be times where we need to increase that divisor even further or we will be crushed by successive losses.

The Divisor Safety Brake has a built in recovery method and so once we hit -300 in debt, we need to forego the ratios (or we will die) and focus on the bank balance alone, using -300 as our single goal to achieve.

I think maybe once we recover to a debt balance of less than 300, then we can reset the ratio of hits:spins to (some acceptable figure).

But this also makes me think that my concept of applying the divisors is flawed!!!!

AHA I GOT IT!

(https://forum.roulette30.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fppt.wz51z.com%2FEC3%2FCD8%2Fanimations%2Fscience%2Fenergy%2Flight_bulb_eureka_hc.gif&hash=c34784e682c1bfabaf7c2724260342f6)

Like the dunce that I am, I sit through the WORST possible variance with a divisor of 2 (or maybe 3 at the very worst!).  I hunker down with a divisor of 5 if we START the game with no hits but after that I REFUSE to deviate from the literal ratio!!!  WHAT AN IDIOT I AM!!!

Here is spins 11 & 12 from the worst sequence above, where the LITERAL ratio is 3:1 but my IMPLEMENTED ratio is 5:1:

SPIN 11: SU(16)      -87/5=17.4      0:142 <=== 3:1

SPIN 12: SU(17*2)   -121/5=24.2      0:160 <=== 3:1

12   1:160 <===

Here I get a hit and the bank balance becomes -67 with an  equivalent ratio of 0:80 and so my divisor here becomes 2, with a target profit of 34 units and therefore I raise my chips 2.

ITS THIS MOVE THAT IS THE KEY TO SUCCESS!  HUNKER DOWN-RESURFACE-ATTACK-HUNKER DOWN LIKE A SUBMARINE (WW II)!

There is nothing wrong with embracing a ratio of 5!  Its not even outside the system!!

THE NORMAL RATIO WILL STILL BE THERE WHEN I WANT TO ADDRESS IT!!!!!

The key is just finding the right method/timing of doing this...

My experience tells me that a particular betting method will work very well.  I call it a "loss trigger" and some people use it to go virtual betting until they get a win and then they start betting again; avoiding successive loss streaks.  Often times things like "2 losses in a row" will trigger the virtual betting.

In our case, we just want to minimize our losses (keep our expenses low) "until the wheel comes back into our favor".  We don't want to be virtual when the win hits because we need to use it to recover, we just want to keep our expenses as low as possible until we finally get the Talos Winning Clustertm

Even the Talos Ratiotm has to bow to the wheel from time to time...

This also recalls to mind the following CANON:

Quote
CANON 42

I also said the my system can go as long as 260+ spins, not that I need to play that number of spins to reach my goal. Any game, as soon as it reaches the ratio 1 hit every 60 numbers played (roughly!) it is over with a profit.
This profit is 1 piece or more, depends when I get the ratio.
I count units, not dollars.

Somehow he has calculated his lowest acceptable bet levels against the longest possible sequence of losses and 1400 units is exhausted (in the worst case) at around 260 spins; i.e. if the worst were to continue successively, which he has never yet seen in over 100000 spins.

This means he definitely has seen AND CONQUERED the sequences that we are whining about.

Quote from: the ether
The best thing we can do regarding bad sequences is, EXPOSE THEM TO THE LIGHT so we can analyze them from the beginning.

So that's what I need to do now, is attack AND CONQUER this bad sequence.

Stay tuned.
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: Sheridan44 on December 31, 2016, 11:09:42 PM
Reyth is da' MAN!
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: Sheridan44 on January 01, 2017, 12:04:23 AM
"The best thing we can do regarding bad sequences is, EXPOSE THEM TO THE LIGHT so we can analyze them from the beginning....... "

And Happy New Years To All !
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: Reyth on January 01, 2017, 05:04:21 AM

SU(16)      -87/5=17.4      0:142 <=== 3:1

SU(17*2)   -121/5=24.2      0:160 <=== 3:1

12   1:160   2   DEBT -67/2=34
13   1:172   3   DEBT -91/2=45.5

12   2:185   1   DEBT -33/2=16.5
13   2:198   2   DEBT -45/2=22.5
14   2:211   2   DEBT -71/2=35.5
15   2:225   3   DEBT -99/2=49.5
16   2:240   4   DEBT -145/2=72
17   2:256   6   DEBT -209/2=104

*********************************
*                        *
* 18 2:273   4   DEBT -311/2=63     *  RATIO 0:91
*                        *
*********************************

12   3:291   6    DEBT -239/2=120

*********************************
* 13 3:303   3 DEBT -311/5=63         *
* 14 3:316   4 DEBT -350/5=70         *
* 15 3:330  4 DEBT -406/5=81              * RATIO    0:76
* 16 3:345  5 DEBT -466/5=93              *
* 17 3:361  6 DEBT -546/5=109            *
* 18 3:378   8 DEBT -648/5=129        *
*********************************

*********************************
* 14 4:396  5 DEBT -504/5=101            *
* 15 4:410   6 DEBT -574/5=114        * RATIO 0:80
* 16 4:425   7 DEBT -664/5=132        *
*********************************

*********************************
*13   5:441   5 DEBT -524/5=105        *
*14   5:445   6 DEBT -589/5=117        * RATIO    0:74
*15   5:459   7 DEBT -673/5=134        *
*16   5:474   8 DEBT -778/5=155        *
*********************************

*********************************
*12   6:490   6 DEBT -618/5=124        * RATIO 0:70
*13   6:502   7 DEBT -690/5=138        *
*********************************

*********************************
*12   7:515   5 DEBT -529/5=106        *
*13   7:527   6 DEBT -589/5=117        *
*14   7:540   7 DEBT -667/5=133        * RATIO 0:65
*15   7:554   8 DEBT -765/5=153        *
*16   7:569   9 DEBT -885/5=177        *
*17   7:585   11 DEBT -1029/5=205    *
*********************************

*********************************
*12   8:602   7 DEBT -820/5=165        *
*13   8:614   8 DEBT -904/5=180        *
*14   8:627   10 DEBT -1008/5=201    * RATIO    0:67
*15   8:641   11 DEBT -1148/5=229    *
*16   8:657   14 DEBT -1313/5=262    *
*********************************

*********************************
*12   9:673   9 DEBT 1033/5=207       * RATIO    0:68
*********************************

*********************************
*12   10:685   7 DEBT 817/5=164         *
*13   10:697  8 DEBT 901/5=180           * RATIO    0:63
*14   10:711   10 DEBT 1005/5=201     *
*15   10:726   15 DEBT 1145/5=229     *
*********************************

*********************************
*12   11:741   7 DEBT 830/5=167         *
*13   11:753   8 DEBT 914/5=182         *
*14   11:766   10 DEBT 1018/5=203     * RATIO 0:62
*15   11:780   12 DEBT 1158/5=231     *
*16   11:795   14 DEBT 1338/5=267     *
*********************************

*********************************
*12  12:811   9 DEBT 1058/5=212       * RATIO 0:63
*13   12:823   11 DEBT 1166/5=233     *
*********************************

12   13:836   39 DEBT   -913                   RATIO 0:60

*********************************
*13   13:848   13   DEBT -1381/5=277 * RATIO 0:61
*14   13:861   15 DEBT   -1550/5=310   *
*********************************

12   14:875   51 DEBT -1221 RATIO 0:59
13   14:887   16 DEBT -1833                         RATIO 0:60
19 DEBT -2041/5=408             RATIO 0:60

**********************************
*15   14:914   22 DEBT -2307/5=461      * RATIO 0:61
*16   14:930   27 DEBT -2637/5=527      *
**********************************

12   15:946   82 DEBT -1948 RATIO 0:60
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: Reyth on January 01, 2017, 01:22:58 PM
Now, obviously the above is quite ugly (and the last few bets are incorrect in the debt amounts) but before I go down the dark road of using a more aggressive safety brake, I have been thinking to myself the following thoughts:

1) What if the reason for my troubles is that I am not playing enough numbers?

1a) Furthermore, what if playing more numbers more quickly, reduces the effect of the variance?; i.e. our debt doesn't climb as high?

2) What if I were to combine two types of betting methods together; i.e. the Talos method & the Dream Catcher bet?

I tried the method below which kept the expenses amazingly low and focuses on taking SU shots when at the edge of the 0:60 ratio:

2DZ            0:24   -2
1DZ/1DS         0:42   -4
1DZ(3)/1STR      0:57   -8
1DZ(5)/SPL(1) 0:71.....-14/5=2.8

1DZ(2)/SU(1)   0:84.....-17/5=3.4
1DZ(3)/SU(2)   0:98.....-20/5=4
1DZ(4)/SU(3)   0:113....-27/5=5.4
1DZ(5)/SU(4)   0:129....-36/5=7.2 <=== vs. [0:97 -42] in my "normal" progression.

=======

1DZ(4)/SU(3)   1:129   -21/5=4.2 <=== Here I decided to "return" to the
1DZ(4)/SU(3)   1:144   -28/5=5.6 <=== equivalent bet in the core progression

11SU         2:159   -23/5=4.6
18SU(2)         2:170   -34/5=6.8
<=== RATIOS 0:53 & 0:57

1DZ(10)/SU(4*2)   2:188   -52/5=10.4 <=== ooops bet slightly too small on the DZ, called for 14

16SU(3)         3:204   -58/5=14.5 <=== RATIO 0:51

WIN +2

This is in such a rough form but I like how the controlling DZ bet reduces expenses, clocks a full 12 numbers spun & allows for a small gain in the debt, while waiting for our SU numbers to hit.

I am trying to bet "as many SU numbers as I can afford, to generate profit" when its time to take a shot.  At that time I drop the DZ bet (because it isn't there as an earner but to keep expenses low, while remaining not too far from profit).

I have no idea if this even makes any sense since I thought of it while going to sleep and waking up and so it is what it is.

I am not trying to copy Talos here but instead trying to apply the principles I have learned in a unique way.

=====

This method is also quite ugly with the "shots" getting out of hand.

So the question is:

Can the 1DZ "controller" be combined with my current method?

=====

While messing around with this, I realized that the bet with the best ratio is of course an EC with 18 numbers for only 1 unit.  It is also the bet with the least flexibility but at least it simplifies everything.

My version of the Talos progression will bet through 25 successive losses and always remain with 5 wins of profit; it is simply a 5 point divisor applied after 1 2 4 8 (which is where we pass 0:60):

1 2 4 8(15)
3(18) 0:90
4(22)  0:108
5(27) 0:126
6(34) 0:144
7(41) 0:162
9(50) 0:180
10(60) 0:198
12(72) 0:216
15(87) 0:234
18(105) 0:252
21(126) 0:270
26(152) 0:288
31(183) 0:306
37(220) 0:324
44(264) 0:342
53(317) 0:360
64(381) 0:378
77(458) 0:396
92(550) 0:414
110(660) 0:432
132(792) 0:450 <=== 25 EC in a row
159(951) 0:468

At this point I am simply betting this progression and when I get a win (outside of the first 4 bets), I calculate the ratio.

If it will be less than 1:60 on a win (numbers played [spins*18] divided by [wins+1]) then I simply bet the debt+1.  If I lose that bet then I enter the progression at the closest debt represented in the progression chart (without going under) and start betting the progression again.

If, after a win, the ratio will be outside of 1:60 with a win, I simply move back in the progression to the closest debt represented in the progression chart (without going under) and bet from there.

I wrote an app that tracks wins vs. spins and automatically displays the current and projected ratio (with a win).

This is helping me to understand exactly how I see the Talos method and its principles; sort of an interesting way to meditate on the continual Talos Questiontm:

How can we keep our expenses as low as possible while we wait for the wheel to come back in our favor?
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: jerome26b on January 01, 2017, 03:57:06 PM
i think i solved the dilemma of CANON 31 & 32 with another CANON in fact but... it doesn't make sense to have a working system like that. I'm checking on my simulations if i can do something that work this way...
but in fact it's bringing me to another conclusion, it's the fact that the vast majority of games are short (less that 12 spins) and less that 4 spins for the vast majority but when a game is long it's quite longer than i was expecting before and takes time for recovering but what's wrong in fact if it's recovering at the end. I think my progression and numbers i played was too agressive and it's the reason it was growing too much at a moment.
If the longest was 70 and the second worst one was around 50 the majority of recovery games is maybe around 30-40 even between 40-45 (in fact i'm taking the worst sequences with my pattern in my file for analysis...).

Jérôme
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: DrTalos on January 01, 2017, 08:32:30 PM
The long games are very rare. And when they get long, the balance is always low, so to allow me to decide to quit and accept the very small loss (as I stated, occurred me sometimes for very special reason). The game stays all the time in a very limited balance.
I never play straight numbers. The more you can group your bets the lower your balance will be. The reason is very simple, double a bet in 9 numbers will bring you to bet 18 units, then adding one unit at each spin will make you bet 27, then 36... But, if you use three streets, you go from 3 to 6 to 9... I know that you already understood that!
The moment you try to force my method in your old "knowledge" you will be trapped in the previous limitation that you already know. Keep looking for the idea behind it.

My system has several boundaries. Once I cross one level, it will have to redesign itself to be effective. If the games is getting longer, and cross another boundary, a new redesign occurs. Let me try to make an example, unrelated to my system.
If I play EC, adding one at every spin, I know that at the third spin I play just to go even. So, at spin number three I start betting on dozens with two units so to be a winner if hits. This change of pattern is what I am talking about. The system in itself doesn't change, but it bends as the game goes.
I do not add numbers continuously, I do not reduce when hit all the time. As I said its flexibility is important. This flexibility is tightly planned, and there is no room for improvisation.

I suggest you to keep thinking in counter intuitive way. I found my system ignoring all the things I thought was true before, simply considering that all my previous reasoning didn't brought me to a winning system.

Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: jerome26b on January 01, 2017, 10:12:59 PM
My system has several boundaries. Once I cross one level, it will have to redesign itself to be effective. If the games is getting longer, and cross another boundary, a new redesign occurs. Let me try to make an example, unrelated to my system.
If I play EC, adding one at every spin, I know that at the third spin I play just to go even. So, at spin number three I start betting on dozens with two units so to be a winner if hits. This change of pattern is what I am talking about. The system in itself doesn't change, but it bends as the game goes.
I do not add numbers continuously, I do not reduce when hit all the time. As I said its flexibility is important. This flexibility is tightly planned, and there is no room for improvisation.

I suggest you to keep thinking in counter intuitive way. I found my system ignoring all the things I thought was true before, simply considering that all my previous reasoning didn't brought me to a winning system.

i understand about that and i did many tests this afternoon in that sense in fact, the only problem at this moment in some occurences the amount of numbers played is too low (in my simulation!) and we can encounter a "sleepers" scenario; i had it with for example a double street not hittting 49 times in a row.
A fixed double street, random DS, 2 streets, 2 randome streets or 6 random or fixed numbers are the same according to your system, cause only the number bets is importants, so this make me think that at a moment yes the system has to redisign itself in some way to avoid this situation and after playing x times x amount of number if we miss (for example after reaching a ratio) you raise the number again to force the statistics to bring some hits (maybe just by adding another simple chance to the total), then maybe stay at this level x until a certain trigger then lower again. The only problem is this kind of progression can take many spins to recover, but you confirmed now the long games are very rare so i'm little confused in this scheme. Maybe i have to go futher into counter intuitive ways of playing and probably i wrongly interpreted the canon 32 with almost 200 numbers played at spin 20, maybe it just meaning you got a hit very early like at spin 3 or 4 (but we already played 60 or 84 numbers in this scenario so the numbers are quite limited for the remaining spins to play). There's some situations i'm very close to proffit (like -3 or -5 units), in this situation i'm more encline to play more numbers just to finish the game quickly than playing less and take the risk for the game to continue for an eternity.

Jérôme
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: Reyth on January 01, 2017, 10:47:17 PM
He says the numbers played don't matter -- any numbers will work--but its:

1) The total number we bet
2) Keeping our expenses at the lowest possible

I for one looked at this Pivot/Parachute and it beats any bet selection I can come up with for cost:numbers played.  It even beats an EC (although the first 3 steps between the two are equal (play pivot 3 spins, EC 2 spins is both 0:36 for 3 units).

Hmmm.... this gets me thinking if I can beat the 0:228 for 93 pieces with the Pivot...

The Pivot is 0:98 for 35 pieces.

0:98 is 2.33 of 0:228
35 pieces is 2.66 of 93

So if we go through the Pivot twice we will be at:

0:196 for 70 pieces and I need to play 32 more numbers...

YUP!  I did it!! 0:244 for 72 pieces.

Of course the problem is going to be the bank when it hits and this was flat betting the whole way even after a completely lost session.

I guess it comes down to:

Can we beat 0:98 for 35 pieces? <=== this would be the core progression winning on every one of the 35 spins.  I am pretty sure that is the best core progression available for cost:numbers played.

If your method beats that then well boy howdy I don't think that can be beat in any way...

Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: jerome26b on January 01, 2017, 11:12:04 PM
He says the numbers played don't matter -- any numbers will work--but its:

1) The total number we bet
2) Keeping our expenses at the lowest possible

Yes but :

the total numbers bet any spin should be ideal to respect 3 conditions :

- make the game "finishable".
- keep the balance as low as possible.
- be enough good/adaptive to avoid any long sleepers scenarios (but respecting the first two points)

At this moment i'm founding myself in a "snake biting his tail" scenario, probably the solution is under the "core" idea behind the system, the couter intuitive one, the philosophical one...

Jérôme
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: Reyth on January 01, 2017, 11:27:12 PM
Well one thing is certain, the better we begin, the better we end.

He has some kind of secret to keeping the expenses down and it sounds like it relates to groups of numbers (Doz,DS,Quad, etc.).

How many units are you down after playing 0:98?  Because I want to start with that if I can't beat it with something else.

Btw, the Parachute should have a 93.38% chance of hitting.

Oh hey, one more thing, I was just thinking that I am pretty sure he has mapped out an entire 260 spin progression for 1400 units.  I was trying to figure out a way to reverse engineer that but I can't because its based on what bets he plays.

Round 1: 0:98.....-35 93%
Round 2: 0:196...-90 99.5%
Round 3: 0:294...-196 99.97% <=== Talos MAX 100K spins
Round 4: 0:392...-419 99.998%
Round 5: 0:490...-858 <=== max successive miss expected in this round

The above is 175 spins.

12   1:160
ST(1)@3 = 2:161 DEBT -33

12   2:185
DZ(1)@17=3:191

+3 UNITS
GAME OVER!!!

12   3:29114   4:39613   5:44112   6:49012   7:51512   8:60212   9:67312   10:68512   11:7411212:81112   13:83612   14:87512   15:946

And wow!  That's the power of GROUPS!  And brings up a new concept of PROFIT RANGE!

(https://forum.roulette30.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi64.tinypic.com%2Fa2u3yv.jpg&hash=836ec784d98ec036cd0be3d6d2e11dc2)

1:275 -333 <=== ZOMGOSH! O_o    Worse than Talos ever saw!
2:293 -222
3:311 -111
3:329 -166
4:341 -83
4:349 -125
4:361 -157
4:379 -205
4:391 -244
4:400 -280
4:412 -328
5:438 -213
6:456 -106
7:474 -53
7:492 -106
7:504 -133
7:522 -175
8:530 -98
8:548 -196
9:560 -99
9:578 -198
9:590 -298
10:602 -250
11:620 +1 unit

But after that the odds finally made sense again and the hits came in regularly but I must say that after 1:275 its a little tough getting the ratios back in your favor...
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: jerome26b on January 02, 2017, 08:30:27 AM
i've the feeling there's an important concept that MrTalos doesn't say (and i can understand the reason no problem) and it's the reason we don't find the trick in a strict "old" way as he's saying. I'm exploring others paths now to catch the idea behind the system cause otherwise we will never solve the entire equation.

Jérôme
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: Reyth on January 02, 2017, 05:15:09 PM
I am assuming the answer is that he is "keeping expenses as low as possible until the wheel comes back in our favor" by using "groups of numbers" because "you get a while bunch more numbers for less money".

I am assuming what he ISN'T saying is that he uses a divisor to keep his bets down but within range of a win.

The Parachute/Pivot can beat 0:228 -93 pieces with 0:244 -73 pieces.  What is your balance at 0:98?

Its my latest opinion that the key is forcing as many numbers into the ratio as quickly as possible for the least amount of money.

Its kind of a perspective change where I used to look all the time at spins, spins, spins and bet selection, bet selection, bet selection.

Now I see that all that matters is Ratio:Cost -- its not spins, its numbers spun.
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: jerome26b on January 02, 2017, 09:02:49 PM
Reyth,

in the last version of my progression i'm -23 after 108 numbers played (with no hits yet)

jerome
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: Reyth on January 02, 2017, 09:10:31 PM
Wow 0:108 -23.  That is truly amazing.  The thing is though that if I get a hit anywhere in 0:98 I will be in profit...

EDIT: But ya, after 0:98 I start following 0:60 to a T; its just that I have no need to recover until I hit 0:98, I am flat betting the whole way, 1 unit.
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: jerome26b on January 02, 2017, 09:13:51 PM
i'm not in profit at that step i need a second hit according to Drtalos concept of 1hit/60, in my first progression i was -33 at that step then i decided to build another one more soft at the beginning 😄but if i hit at that stage i'm -11 and the recovery can be quite easy. the more you're close from recovery the more options you got (it's adaptive in fact) and the more you can play numbers. the only problem is when you are getting far from recovery...
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: jerome26b on January 02, 2017, 09:24:40 PM
and i found a scenario that recoup canon 32. first hit at 4th spin another hit later the at 20th spin 196th with playing less then again more numbers after x miss. so it make sense at the end and i have no more dilemma anymore with these both canons ;-)
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: Reyth on January 02, 2017, 09:55:02 PM
(https://khakiliterature.files.wordpress.com/2013/03/bolitho_combat.jpg?w=918)

0:98 -35
0:116 -84
1:134 -47
2:152 -23
2:170 -46
2:182 -70
2:300 -91
3:304 -43
3:322 -65
3:334 -82
4:352 -55 <===
4:370 -83 <=== THE
5:382 -41 <=== GOOD
5:400 -62 <===
6:412 -30 <===
6:430 -61
6:442 -77
7:448 -37
7:466 -75
7:478 -113 <=== THE UGLY
8:490 -21
9:508 +1

(https://forum.roulette30.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.apisteuta.com%2Fnews_data%2F744%2F22.jpg&hash=5e2d1ccc5f4dc3431a29818a649d1527)

0:98 -35
0:116 -53
1:128 -25
2:146 -12
3:164 +1

Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: jerome26b on January 02, 2017, 10:49:55 PM
The moment you try to force my method in your old "knowledge" you will be trapped in the previous limitation that you already know. Keep looking for the idea behind.

I suggest you to keep thinking in counter intuitive way. I found my system ignoring all the things I thought was true before, simply considering that all my previous reasoning didn't brought me to a winning system.

i don't really know what you are trying to pass as a message about all the philosophical aspects of your system, the fact it's unique etc... cause at the end even if it's unique you pretend you said it's quite strict in some ways and follow mathematics. i've no certainties about some old knowledge, many are bs not to say 99% , my prefered one is virtual bet that i discard completely and the bet selection systems that are all losing at the end i'm sorry to say that. i'm searching a system based on maths, random and stochastichs, paragon, mix and differential progression ideas that get more interest to me.

jerome

Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: Reyth on January 03, 2017, 01:37:49 AM
0:98 -35
0:116 -53
0:128 -67
1:146 -48
1:164 -73
1:176 -92
1:194 -122
1:206 -146
1:215 -???
1:227 -209
1:245 -263
1:263 -351
1:275 -410
1:293 -494
1:305 -557
1:317 -623
2:319 -419
2:337 -629
2:349 -787
2:367 -1182
2:379 -1332
2:388 -1455
2:400 -1629
2:418 -1917
2:436 -2556
2:448 -2982
2:466 -3579
2:478 -4029
2:487 -4398
2:499 -4920
2:517 -5766
2:535 *@%#\$!!!

How do you keep your expenses low until the wheel comes back in our favor?

1) Virtual bet
2) Continuously lower your bet amount in relation to the debt; i.e. increasingly underbet
2) Bet only a split; since he doesn't bet a single number SU
3) Strategically bank the debt only addressing "acceptable" sections at a time

Of course in general, his answer will be to increase the payout of your bets as much as possible to keep your raises at a minimum.

So, back to the drawing board...

Tier 1 EC 1:1
Tier 2 DZ 2:1
Tier 3 DS 5:1
Tier 4 QD 8:1
Tier 4 ST 11:1
Tier 5 SP 17:1
Tier 6 SU 35:1

So my thoughts are to advance down the tier list as the ratio increases (0:###), raising lightly as necessary in each tier and starting each tier fresh.

This should have the combination effect of keeping my raises to a minimum and increasing my ratio at a maximum rate.

=====

Funny thing, I am still playing around with the Parachute/Pivot because it is such a strong progression with ratio:cost and after the first 35 bets for 0:98 I have it mapped out to bet 175 with a 5 point divisor; there is no reason for us to expect it ever to go straight through to that 175th bet.

What is very interesting is that the 5 point divisor allows us to move back in the progression because it generates some profit.  This reminds me of Talos when he said "a hit gives me more time to reach my 1:60"...

What if Talos has a mapped out core progression that he is using and he is simply stepping forward and backward in that progression?

With the Parachute/Pivot I can actually "lock in" profit after gaining a hit by going back in the progression to the point to where the debt is greater than the profit earned.  What if Talos is using this same method for his system?

There is a problem that I forsee with this method (and Talos' method whatever it may be).  First off, we can asume that the wheel will never send us out to a full 0:490 from beginning to end BUT once a hit is gained, there is no reason that it can't deliver its expected maximum, which is around 0:450 and in fact it can deliver that at any time.  The problem is we can never go to the equivalent ratio in a progression because our debt will always be greater than the progression is designed for.

Talos admits he can lose all 1400 so maybe he is saying that it is sufficiently rare as not likely to be seen by us?

So far this "debt locking" in combination with the 5 point divisor (guaranteeing to always be withn 5 hits of a win) method is working quite well...

I have designed a tiny app with the parachute bet to track the entire recovery progression and will be testing this out...

I've made a video of this here:

https://youtu.be/_Jwh0qL2bvo
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: jerome26b on January 03, 2017, 08:46:50 AM
i see some problems if we apply the parachute going to play until splits we will be exposed to sleepers at a moment no chance to avoid that situation with only two numbers. another problem is the fact that if we are playing 24 numbers and reach the ration 0:218 and go one hit. then several misses and we will be for instance 1:350 why the wheel has to go in our favor (specially if we don't play the same amount of numbers). Even more he said he can move to another table in case of a broken machine and continue his progression but mathematicaly it doesn't make sense it's like starting again at 0:0. there's something non sense in fact around that... so i really wonder what's behind the DrTalos philosophical idea (if there is one) cause we are going nowhere currently and if we take his system purely mathematicaly it's not working sorry.

jerome
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: Reyth on January 03, 2017, 11:52:19 AM
I think his point is that the numbers we select don't matter so the idea of "hot", "cold" or "sleepers" don't matter; just the ratios of numbers spun to hits.

I don't understand your point about playing 24 numbers because the Pivot doesn't play 24 numbers but only a maximum of 18 (the one EC bet).

On moving to another table he is talking about "personal permanence" and I suppose he could be correct but even he, like us, has been tempted to (and has done) starting the count over if he changes wheels.

For me, the Pivot fits what I understand his playing principles to be (playing groups of numbers to lower costs).  Obviously he doesn't use the Pivot but from what he has said, he may very well have a core progression that is similar to it.

As far as "keeping your expenses low while waiting for the wheel to come back in our favor", the Pivot does this quite well IF I don't push things but flow with the wheel, raising and lowering my divisor as I win and lose.

Finally, a point that has been going through my head recently, is that the 1:60 ratio is not what his system is based around but instead it is a result OF his system.  I think we might be killing ourselves trying to make a system around 1:60 instead...
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: jerome26b on January 03, 2017, 12:24:36 PM
i agree with that point but anyway there's an inconsistency. if numbers we select or selection doesn't matter we can if we want or not be face of some sleepers. like he said playing 6 random, 2 streets or a Line doesn't make a difference at the moment you play the 6 numbers (it's just an example) but we know that a ds can sleep for more than 40 spins so what are we doing if we are in this situation betting this particular ds. if it happens with a ds it can happen for 2 streets or 6 random numbers. the fact we select every spin different 6 numbers doesnt protect us against that. So what are our weapons to protect against this it's to raise again the numbers we played to force a hit when the system is going too far with little amount of numbers without a hit. so the system has necessary boundaries like he said with up and down depending of the ratio we are and how deep the ratio is to avoid a non recoverable situation.
about the fact i'm talking about 24 numbers it's because he's playing 24 numbers in his system (maximum).

jerome
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: Reyth on January 03, 2017, 04:27:51 PM
Interesting.  It makes a person wonder if the least expensive way to play 24 numbers will change as the debt becomes larger?

For instance, even though EC's have the best ratio 0:18 for only 1 unit, their ratio value decreases as the debt rises; after 2 bets, it becomes a better value to bet 2 chips on a Dozen and 1 chip on a DS for a total cost of 3 chips which would only break even on the EC but now those same 3 chips will also pay +1 if the dozen hits and we cover the same 18 numbers.

I think Talos has figured these "ratio values" out to a very high degree in his method and I am pretty sure these differences in value become more pronounced as the debt becomes larger.
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: jerome26b on January 03, 2017, 08:23:03 PM
there's something else i want to add and another possibility it's the fact MrTalos is using all of us to find a system he never found based on some research he did about an ideal system for him. i hope he will not be angry about this fact but it's something we have to take into consideration as well cause it's a possible solution and maybe we are all searching for something that doesn't exist in fact.
so Mrtalos don't be angry about this statement but it's an analysis and something important if we don't want to be blind in the process.
but i'm still in the part of the believers i've to admit, and i've found today new material to work on it.

jerome
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: Reyth on January 03, 2017, 09:55:16 PM
Meh.  The only reason we are tempted to think that he has no method is because he must veil it to avoid jeopardizing his secret.  I have heard too many "ring of truth" things that he has said to believe he doesn't have what he says he does.
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: jerome26b on January 03, 2017, 10:31:03 PM

Meh.  The only reason we are tempted to think that he has no method is because he must veil it to avoid jeopardizing his secret.  I have heard too many "ring of truth" things that he has said to believe he doesn't have what he says he does.

In fact there's some mathematical aspects I have more and more difficult to agree in his progression. Just the fact that the ratio will come back in our favor cause we are 0:228 it's not true. We know every events are indépendant and we don't have more chance we will approach to the equilibrium after that than if we start a fresh game or in another fresh wheel (when the wheel is broken as he said). And if we reduce thé number so played its even different it's like playing suddenly another game. All of this makes nonsense. Furthermore I found some other things he said that are very difficult to admit if we take them litteraly for example this one in his q&a :

Not at all. All is needed is that I hit an average of 1 every 60 numbers played (or better). As soon as this threshold is reached, the game is won. Has happen I had to wait more than 180 numbers played before the first hit, then in the next 15 spins or so, with three more hit, the game was over.

If we take it literally it means that he plays a corner for 15 spins and expect to hit it 3 times (good luck) cause we are 1:180 15 spins more respecting the 1:60 ratio and 3 hits we will be 4:240 so the game is over with 4*15 exactly the delta. Is it really serious to expect 3 hits in 15 spins playing 4 numbers ?

Another one that is strange :

I don't play at the beginning straight numbers, I play groups (can be dozens, even chances, double streets...) so to have few chips on the board (remember, we need the balance to stay low).
Then you say :

I never play straight numbers. The more you can group your bets the lower your balance will be. The reason is very simple, double a bet in 9 numbers will bring you to bet 18 units, then adding one unit at each spin will make you bet 27, then 36... But, if you use three streets, you go from 3 to 6 to 9... I know that you already understood that!

First you say you don't play straight numbers at the beginning then you said you don't play straight at all and it's the same for even chances.

Otherwise I will fisnish by proove by your clues that your system is just a fallacy...

Furthermore all this discussion about the philosophical aspects of his progression, the bulletproof, the nuclear science, the fact he's the only one to got it. He even admit he found his progression based on a popular one and adjust it (it was one of his first posts).

Well well I'm starting to have my own conviction ....

Jerome
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: Reyth on January 03, 2017, 11:07:03 PM
Look the max ratio we can expect to see is around 0:450 regardless of how you slice it.  Reducing the numbers or increasing them affects the speed at which they accrue and the cost to make them accrue.  Changing these doesn't relate to whether the system is valid or not.

0:180 he is probably at around -70 which is an average of 24 units a hit.  I don't see how this relates to him playing a single corner per se.  He could play any betting combination.

On straight numbers  I could understand that he would only play them late when maybe the ratios would justify them and it would be the only way left to keep the costs down but that before that it would be too expensive compared to other solutions.

Since this has not been found by the public in general, it has to be something that is highly out of the ordinary and thus pilosophical sorts of statements are quite appropriate.

Its easy at times to think that roulette is so limited but then we see something new that we have never seen before or even thought of.  The problem is our habits of thought and play, just like he says.
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: jerome26b on January 03, 2017, 11:37:16 PM
Reyth,

he said he got his first hit at 180 numbers so 1:180 right then he said he needs 3 more hits in the next 15 spins to finish what does it mean ? it means he's playing on average 4 hits for 15 spins and he will be just on 4:240 needed ratio. ok i can admit he will play more at the beginning like 12 or 10 or 8 but it doesn't explain really how we can achieve 3 hits in 15 spins playing less than 60 numbers cause it's the limit of the 1/60 ratio to be respected. do you catch my reasoning ?

jerome.
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: Reyth on January 03, 2017, 11:46:58 PM
The actual ratio is somewhere greater than 1:180 but less than 1:190.  You can be at 1:60.01 for your last spin and bet 24 numbers.

He stumbled into a couple of "lucky" wins close together while he was trying to keep his costs down and then hit large on his last spin.

I am only saying what could be possible because I have no idea what he did.
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: jerome26b on January 03, 2017, 11:57:37 PM
The actual ratio is somewhere greater than 1:180 but less than 1:190.  You can be at 1:60.01 for your last spin and bet 24 numbers.

He stumbled into a couple of "lucky" wins close together while he was trying to keep his costs down and then hit large on his last spin.

I am only saying what could be possible because I have no idea what he did.

so yes you catch it his system is just expecting at a moment a very lucky streak ;-)

jerome
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: Reyth on January 04, 2017, 12:03:57 AM
The reason I put "lucky" in quotes is because 0:180 represents some SD and thus must be limited.  This is why keeping our costs down is so important.

In fact, I am beginning to believe that keeping our costs to the very minimum IS the system!

In other words, he is not able to win at roulette by maintaining a 1:60 win ratio he is able to keep a 1:60 win ratio by keeping his costs to the very minimum while betting to win; i.e. his secret method.
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: jerome26b on January 04, 2017, 12:18:52 AM
so when we are very far from the ratio we bet the minimum and the less numbers to expect a magical hit? maybe for x spins but if we don't hit we need to increase the numbers played again otherwise we are going to the wall or the game will never finish. it means the system is a combination of money management and luck ?

jerome.
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: Reyth on January 04, 2017, 12:23:00 AM
Luck becomes a strategic winning method when you stand it on its head enough.

I know for a fact he is using groups of numbers to maxmimize his ratio as quickly as possible and for the least amount of monetary outlay as possible and this IS his system.

Like the example I quoted above, instead of using 4 chips on an EC to cover a debt of 3 units, we can use 2 units on a DZ and 1 unit on a DS and save a unit.  This is an example of the type of thinking that I know goes into every bet of his system.

He asks himself, "What is the very best way possible for me to minimize my costs with my next bet while still betting to win?".  The answer to that question IS his system.

The "while still betting to win" part is how his system doesn't spiral out of control into a perpetual unwinnable state.
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: jerome26b on January 04, 2017, 08:56:53 AM
So his system has always to stay at a low recovery level, but what's happening when it's going -200 units, i think he said his record was -450 so in 4 years of playing it's "acceptable" ; and the 1400 bankroll is pure theorical so but quite impossible to recover if he's going that far i suppose( same as 260 spins).
The fact he's counting on luck at a moment (and less numbers) to recover from the standard deviation is maybe the counter intuitive way he was talking about. Let's just try to find a way now to achieve the 1/60 ratio with all these elements. The canon 32 and the fact he said after first hit after 180 numbers played he needs 3 more hits in the next fifteen spins to be in plus implied he's necessary playing very low amount of numbers when he's waiting long for the first hit to happen. At 1:180 he should be somewhere like around -38 units in my simulations.

What seems to be quite clear now is the fact that if we go down it's at the begining and the more we are progressiong in spins the less we are negative cause he said the very long games he's never very negative. So it implies that the more "risks" are probably to force the first hits to reduce the recovery to the lowest possible amount, then after hitting he can maybe afford to play a very low amount of number cause finally if you are only =10 it's maybe better to play 6 numbers that risking to play 12 or 18 and you have more time to recover. I don't know if it's optimal when i'm near from profit i will be more encline to try a final bet of more numbers to finish the game quickly. This up and down about numbers played is a real part of his strategy for sure, and the fact is computing all of this mentally means it can't be a very complicated scheme. Probably a trigger at x spin if still negative he know he hit the boundary and cahnge a little bit his betting process.

At the end the real secret is in the progression itself as well, we are applying quite common progressions here in our plan but you can find hundreds just checking on internet forums, some are quite rare and counter intuitive or even quite crazy. Don't forget it's the system so the progression that is telling him how many numbers he has to bet every spin.

Kind regards,

Jérôme
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: Reyth on January 04, 2017, 04:53:01 PM
Yes awesome thinking.  It makes my brain hurt trying to figure out where these methods and limits are.

If we were to analyze it like a chess computer, at every bet we would examine every possibly reasonable bet combination that is available to us to find the ONE bet that is the best for cost:ratio; COST = lowest possible, RATIO = greatest possible, AGAINST THE CURRENT DEBT.

Is it realiable to divide the ratio by the cost and find the bet that has the highet result?

With a debt of 3 units:

18/4=4.5
12/2=6
12/2 + 6/1 = 12/2= 6

Ok so this formula is lacking the payout aspect...

So how do we make a formula that includes: cost, ratio & payout?

So how about the cost/ratio : payout?

18/4=4.5:4
12/2=6:2
12/2+6/1=12/2=6:3

Meh I am not math inclined but what we are looking to do mathematically is make a formula that shows the HIGHEST COVERAGE & THE LOWEST COST & THE HIGHEST PAYOUT.

Selection..........Coverage.....Cost.....Payout
EC(1)..............18..............4.........4
DZ(1)..............12..............2.........4
DZ(2) DS(1)......18..............3.........3

LOL I just figured out my DZ/DS example is wrong >.<  I told you I am stupid!

Anyway, if we can come up with a formula we can figure out his system and like you say it includes differential betting!

Kav is an expert at differential betting and it makes my brain hurt even moar!

I know he says that his games go in stages, so he definitely has pre-planned goals based on how the game goes.

I think his strategy is not "less numbers" but "the most numbers for the least money that pays the most".

I have given up on the ratio and just focused on ussing the progression that keeps the bets the lowest at all times because when I try to maintain the ratio I end up making crazy bets that stack up. :shrug:
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: jerome26b on January 04, 2017, 05:09:46 PM
that's an issue and a real one yes, at a noment in some series the ratio can be unsustainable; i really wonder how he can sustain the ratio in the long term in fact. There should be a trick somewhere, cause at some moments we are in a situation if we got a hit we must finish the game, if we are too low it's very difficult to achive without betting considerable amounts. So the secret seems to not let the progression go at a "too low level" of our balance. Of course at the begining if we got our first hit at 1:180 we can decouple and we know we have 3 hits to achieve the game, so i have a feeling we have to get the first hits the sooner to be sure not going deep in the balance and in the ratio. There's something to work on there, i will do some simulations tonight with my excell file ;-)

Jérôme
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: Reyth on January 04, 2017, 05:26:42 PM
There should be a trick somewhere, cause at some moments we are in a situation if we got a hit we must finish the game, if we are too low it's very difficult to achive without betting considerable amounts.

Right, because THE RATIO IS A SYMPTOM OF THE SYSTEM.

Quote
So the secret seems to not let the progression go at a "too low level" of our balance.

The secret is to continuously bet "the greatest coverage for the least money & the highest payout reasonably required" so we will not have to pay too much when we are 0:61.

Quote
Of course at the begining if we got our first hit at 1:180 we can decouple and we know we have 3 hits to achieve the game, so i have a feeling we have to get the first hits the sooner to be sure not going deep in the balance and in the ratio. There's something to work on there, i will do some simulations tonight with my excell file ;-)

KEWL! :D

Here is a concrete example.  Let's assume that he actually does bet an EC twice for a total debt of -3 units.  THE REASON HE SWITCHES is because he has found a better bet  for COST/COVERAGE/PAYOUT.

Now, if I recall you jump to a 8 unit 2DZ bet for a payout of 4 units; the problem I am finding at the moment with this is that you could put 4 units on an EC & then 2 units on a double street and get superior results in COST [6 units instead of 8], so imo this is NOT the bet selection he uses...

An interesting thought, 2 units on a Dozen is equal to 4 units on an EC because we can follow it up with 2 units on a DS; this kind of thinking, dividing the numbers of units spent into future spins...

What is the bet that is better for COST/COVERAGE/PAYOUT even if it includes differential betting?

Some questions:

1) Can we cover 18 numbers (or more) for 3 units and earn 4 units profit?
2) Can we cover more than 18 numbers for 4 units to earn 4 units profit?
3) What are all the ways that we can earn 4 units for a cost of 4 units or below?

I think "less numbers" CAN fit into the possibilities (to make my brain hurt moar) if the COST & PAYOUT are superior...

INTERESTING OMGOSH OMGOSH IDEA!  What if he sees that his debt is too high to comfortably support the next bet for 0:61 and so he LOWERS HIS BET SELECTION to make 0:61 TWO SPINS AWAY instead of only 1!?

This way, he never forces himself to finish the game unless the 0:61 bet is "within acceptable parameters"!

Eventually this "two-step" strategy will pay off on the lower selection!! :D
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: jerome26b on January 04, 2017, 05:49:36 PM
yes i think we are in a good path now, for the progression you're talking about it was my first one but i changed it to not bet 8 units. in fact i did it to respect some canons and achieve the 1/60 ratio but i was thinking maybe the ratio is not important at the very beginning (a kind of exception to the rule). after all he said 'roughly' and not exactly 1/60 ...
but i'm still respecting the -93 balance at the spin 10 without hitting.
i think yes the trick is that when we wait for the first hit we play a lot of numbers to achieve this first hit with maximum chances (and less cost). and if after the first hit we are still quite down we continue to play many numbers to force the second hit and the standard deviation to come back on our favour. the only condition we play less numbers is when we are close to profit. i'm right in my reasoning ?
jerome.
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: jerome26b on January 04, 2017, 05:54:43 PM
and yes one question that is important when we just had our first hit and we are 1:180 what 's the best bet to achieve taking all into account ? more numbers ? more money ? i'm talking at 1:180 if we are 1:120 the situation is completely different. and then again when we are at 2:180 what's the best bet ?

jerome.
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: jerome26b on January 04, 2017, 06:04:22 PM
one last réflexion after reading your last edited post you talked about differential betting i had the idea it could be à part of his system but not so sure and like you i'm a novice on this topic. i did some search on other forums but i'm not completely confident with that option. The fact he can ovoid sleepers is just because when he's playing low amount of numbers he's not far from profit and if he met the criteria of a boundary he play again more numbers to force a hit. That's the geniality of the system ! Talos tm lol
so if we take this into account he will never encounter for very long a sleepers situation. one of my last idea was that maybe he can play several smal chances together like a corner + a street for example or many other options. this way it's very rare all will sleep together ... but at the end it's just a question of numbers and increasing numbers. chances corner , streets, ds are just numbers in fact. when you see it in that sense you realize it's quite stupid to stay on the same missing street or line or corner cause at the end it's just mathematics and chance to hit x numbers.

jerome
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: Reyth on January 04, 2017, 06:32:38 PM
Right!  Like he said, less numbers towards profit (he needs to get the dam debt down for his finale!) and moar numbers away from profit (he needs to get a dam hit!).  Excellent idea!

Remember he was obsessed by the ratio going 1:30 to 1:45 and finally to 1:60 and he had to do so much calculation but THEN he found a way to simplify it.

I THINK THIS IS HOW HE DID IT:  Now he looks at 1) The number of spins & 2) Approximately his debt; this yields a ratio (simple math) that will suggest what his bet selection should be, higher, lower, same BECAUSE HE KNOWS WHAT HE NEEDS HIS DAM DEBT TO BE IN ORDER TO HAVE HIS FINALE!

So the missing link is THE AMOUNT OF DEBT that he makes his final bet; it has never been about the ratio, it has always been about the DEBT IN RELATION TO THE RATIO (the missing piece).
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: jerome26b on January 04, 2017, 06:42:18 PM
yes that's the key !

and to add a last thing from now we have to think about the chances (even,line, dozen,corner) just as a powerful tool to achieve small betting the more numbers but not as chances we try to hit necessary (cause we all know as experienced players it's a failing strategy) so we have to discard this concept of trying to hit a dozen , a column a corner. we just want to hit the selection of numbers the system is asking to play. the chances are just there to make our life easier. To conclude maybe the only 'weakness the wheel has' is referring to that ?

jerome.
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: Reyth on January 04, 2017, 06:49:15 PM
Right, our actions are serving the higher purpose of the META RATIOtm, DEBT:SPINS

We are lowering our selection for that reason (because it is too expensive to end the game yet) and raising our selection because there are too many spins without a hit.

So he is like surfing between these two limitations regarding debt & spins; this is why he holds the clicker.

The wheel is going to have to pay us as the hit:spin ratio grows, we just want to make sure when it does that our debt is at an acceptable level so we are not forced to bet so large, instead we force the wheel to pay us enough to exit comfortably.

So somehow he knows that if he keeps the META RATIO within certain limits he can go for 260 spins with 1400 units; "I have plenty of numbers to play, no reason for panic".

1400/260=5.38

Hahah 1400:260 <=== DEBT:SPINS

DEBT:SPINS...META RATIO...SELECTION...HIT RATIO
1:1 = 1..........EC(1).....0:18
3:2 = 1.5.......EC(2).....0:36
5:3 = 1.67.....DZ(2).....0:48
7:4 = 1.75.....DS(2).....0:54
etc...

Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: kav on January 04, 2017, 06:53:02 PM
I feel like you three (and especially Reyth) are doing all the hard work and then we will all profit from it :-)
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: jerome26b on January 04, 2017, 07:01:17 PM
Right, our actions are serving the higher purpose of the META RATIOtm, DEBT:SPINS

We are lowering our selection for that reason (because it is too expensive to end the game yet) and raising our selection because there are too many spins without a hit.  So he is like surfing between these two limitations regarding debt & spins; this is why he holds the clicker.

The wheel is going to have to pay us as the hit:spin ratio grows, we just want to make sure when it does that our debt is at an acceptable level so we are not forced to bet so large, instead we force the wheel to pay us enough to exit comfortably.

So somehow he knows that if he keeps the META RATIO within certain limits he can go for 260 spins with 1400 units; "I have plenty of numbers to play, no reason for panic".

1400/260=5.38

Hahah 1400:260 <=== DEBT:SPINS

1:1 = 1..........EC(1).....0:18
3:2 = 1.5.......EC(2).....0:36
5:3 = 1.67.....DZ(2).....0:48
7:4 = 1.75.....DS(2).....0:54
etc...

yes at spin 240 he can be eventually at -5 units playing few numbers no reasons to panic. i think the -1400 is not related to the 260th spin it's related at a fail at the beginning but it will quite never happens with the so high numbers he's playing.

jerome
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: jerome26b on January 04, 2017, 07:02:59 PM
I feel like you three (and especially Reyth) are doing all the hard work and then we will all profit from it :-)

not so sure we are just exchanging more ideas, put them in practice is another story. at the end we don't even know if it's sustainable and if all the story is true ... still a lot of work to do :-)
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: Reyth on January 04, 2017, 07:05:13 PM
I feel like you three (and especially Reyth) are doing all the hard work and then we will all profit from it :-)
'

Ya without Jerry to keep me sane I couldn't keep going! :D
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: Reyth on January 04, 2017, 07:08:11 PM
Right, our actions are serving the higher purpose of the META RATIOtm, DEBT:SPINS

We are lowering our selection for that reason (because it is too expensive to end the game yet) and raising our selection because there are too many spins without a hit.  So he is like surfing between these two limitations regarding debt & spins; this is why he holds the clicker.

The wheel is going to have to pay us as the hit:spin ratio grows, we just want to make sure when it does that our debt is at an acceptable level so we are not forced to bet so large, instead we force the wheel to pay us enough to exit comfortably.

So somehow he knows that if he keeps the META RATIO within certain limits he can go for 260 spins with 1400 units; "I have plenty of numbers to play, no reason for panic".

1400/260=5.38

Hahah 1400:260 <=== DEBT:SPINS

1:1 = 1..........EC(1).....0:18
3:2 = 1.5.......EC(2).....0:36
5:3 = 1.67.....DZ(2).....0:48
7:4 = 1.75.....DS(2).....0:54
etc...

yes at spin 240 he can be eventually at -5 units playing few numbers no reasons to panic. i think the -1400 is not related to the 260th spin it's related at a fail at the beginning but it will quite never happens with the so high numbers he's playing.

What if 5.38 was the governing ratio that he knows is the upper limit; if he passes that its time to raise the selection to bring up the debt faster, if he is too far below it then its time to lower the selection because he is getting hits too quickly before his bankroll is ready.

Because he is looking at his chips and the clicker; debt:spins.

Like what if meta ratio of 3 and below was too low and meta ratio of over 5 is too high?

Here is another idea.  What if the equivalent EC bet is the governing rule for the bet selection?  For instance:

1:1 = 1..........EC(1).....0:18
3:2 = 1.5.......EC(2).....0:36
5:3 = 1.67.....DZ(2).....0:48
7:4 = 1.75.....DS(2).....0:54
etc...

Here our debt is 7 and so the equivalent bet selection is 8 on an EC.  Therefore we have 8 units to find a superior selection on the felt; 8:18:8 -- UNITS:COVERAGE:PAYOUT.

DZ(4) DS(3) SP(1) = 8:21:8,11,10 > 8:18:8

Here we clearly have a superior selection in PAYOUT & COVERAGE with equal COST.

If we govern all our bets by an EC we can be sure to always do better than 1:18:1 <=== OMGOSH!!!!

18:1 <=== remember an event that hits once every 2 spins!!!

As the debt grows, the opportunity to maxmimize our COST:PAYOUT:COVERAGE ratios becomes more pronounced and I KNOW that he is doing this with every bet!
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: jerome26b on January 04, 2017, 07:25:17 PM
he said he got at the worse his first hit at the 16th spin if my memory is good and the profit at spin 27th. so even in this situation he got many hits in 11 spins to reduce the debt that was probably quite high at the fiser hit (i would say around -200 maybe).

jerome
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: Reyth on January 04, 2017, 07:32:22 PM
So like 16 spins and 228 numbers spun?
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: jerome26b on January 04, 2017, 07:33:55 PM
it's necessary more at 16th spin without a hit like around 320-340
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: Reyth on January 04, 2017, 07:38:42 PM
Well then someting is not right because we have another 31 & 32 issue...
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: Reyth on January 04, 2017, 07:42:41 PM
Quote
1:1 = 1..........EC(1).....0:18
3:2 = 1.5.......EC(2).....0:36
5:3 = 1.67.....DZ(2).....0:48
7:4 = 1.75.....DS(2).....0:54
etc...

Here our debt is 7 and so the equivalent bet selection is 8 on an EC.  Therefore we have 8 units to find a superior selection on the felt; 8:18:8 -- UNITS:COVERAGE:PAYOUT.

DZ(4) DS(3) SP(1) = 8:21:8,11,10 > 8:18:8

Here we clearly have a superior selection in PAYOUT & COVERAGE with equal COST.

If we govern all our bets by an EC we can be sure to always do better than 1:18:1 <=== OMGOSH!!!!

18:1 <=== remember an event that hits once every 2 spins!!!

Dang this might be the secrect to his selection method...

Quote
CANON 21

So...
Checking outcomes to identify a biased or fallacious wheel, then look at the ball spinning around the wheel to identify a sector where it will most likely end its run, it is called science.
On the other hand, waiting for a situation to occur, a situation that statistically happens one time every two spins, and studying a progression that allows you to wait 20 spins to hit, it is called luck.

He is talking about getting his first hit here which we already know has only a 1:20,000 chance of missing.

Isn't it true that if we keep our COST:COVERAGE:PAYOUT ratios at 1:18:1 or better we will always be in that 2 spin expectation?

So for smaller selections it must be equal, like 1:9:2, 1:3:6, etc.

So lets say we want to bet 9 numbers instead of 18 and our debt is the same at 7 units, the equivalent on an EC is again 8 units so we are looking for 8:9:16 or better.

DS(4) ST(2) SP(2) is 8:11:16,16,28 > 8:9:16

If we spin it twice and it hits the second time we will have a debt of 16 and a profit of 32 which is maintaining the 2:1 ratio required for payout to coverage since the selection is 1/2 the coverage of an EC.

My brain is starting to hurt again...

I think the goal is not to be equal on cost but to be AS LOW ON COST as is possible because as the debt rises, it gets easier and easier to lower the cost.  The previous example would be:

DS(4) ST(2)= 6:9:18 <=== clearly a COST decrease & PAYOUT increase for the equivalent coverage

COST:COVERAGE:PAYOUT
6:9:18 > 8:9:16
and therefore
6:9:18 > 8:18:8

And this is his secret to keeping the costs down as low as possible.

Meh this is so screwed up because actually 12:18:12 = 8:18:8 but I am leaving all this crap up here to help me think moar...

Quote
DZ(4) DS(3) SP(1) = 8:21:8,11,10 > 8:18:8

Here we clearly have a superior selection in PAYOUT & COVERAGE with equal COST.

All is not lost because this concept still holds...

What we need is to figure out how it might be possible to LOWER the coverage and still yield same or better payouts with same or better costs...

I think the key will be multiples of 3 numbers: 3,6,9,12 and especially 3,6,9 because they all go evenly into 18.

For instance, 6 numbers doesn't have to be a DS it can be a QD + SP like:

QD(3) SP(1) = 4:6:14

Spun 3 times = 12:18:6 which fails to 8:18:8.

SP(1) SU(1) = 2:3:16

Spun 6 times = 12:18:6 = FAIL.

Its easy when we hold at least equal coverage [DZ(4) DS(3) SP(1) = 8:20:8,11,10 > 8:18:8] because it only requires one spin but when we require more than one spin it seems impossible...

Its really amazing that we CAN bet better than an EC when the debt rises.  That is something I never knew before...

OH CRAP I DID IT AGAIN!  DZ(4) does not pay enough with DS(3) SP(1) >.<

DZ(5) DS(2) = 7:18:8,5 FAILS

Is decreasing our costs by using number groupings just a myth?  It sure seems like it...

Meh I have to stop for awhile...
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: jerome26b on January 04, 2017, 08:16:28 PM
no no no we have really to go to 24 numbers played to get this first hit otherwise it makes non sense with all the clues he gave. we know for sure he's playing 24 numbers in a no hit situation. so yes maybe we can elaborate another plan but if we want to mimic, find the talos system we have to consider he's playing at a moment 24 numbers no choice. take a rest like me i was boiling yesterday out of my mind but today i wake up with quite clear ideas. when i will come with them at the table it will be another story like always 😜

jerome.
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: jerome26b on January 04, 2017, 08:19:34 PM
but playing 4 ds i agree ;-)
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: Reyth on January 04, 2017, 11:35:37 PM
Ya ur right it makes sense to jam the 24 to get that hit.  Funny how he said he missed 16 times once which is about the practical limit on 24 numbers...

But 4 DS?  That's 4:24:2.

Well with only 4 units to work with I guess it will be impossible to beat 4 DS...

DS (1) DS(1) DS(1) QD(1) SP(1)

QD(1) QD(1) QD(1) QD(1) QD(1) QD(1) = 6:24:3 is pretty much the same thing...
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: jerome26b on January 04, 2017, 11:44:28 PM
Ya ur right it makes sense to jam the 24 to get that hit.  Funny how he said he missed 16 times once which is about the practical limit on 24 numbers...

But 4 DS?  That's 4:24:2.

Well with only 4 units to work with I guess it will be impossible to beat 4 DS...

DS (1) DS(1) DS(1) QD(1) SP(1)

QD(1) QD(1) QD(1) QD(1) QD(1) QD(1) = 6:24:3 is pretty much the same thing...

they are just numbers. we have just to consider the chances as a practical way to play the most numbers at the less cost in my opinion.

jerome.
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: Reyth on January 05, 2017, 12:37:05 AM
Ok well since you mentioned being practical, why not play 2 units on high/low and 1 unit on a DS on the opposite side of the board?

Sure the EC only plays 1 unit (Talos likes that) but the DS 1/3rd of the way makes up for that by paying 3 units AND our cost goes down by a unit with the same coverage?

When we start raising, that will put us in better shape since the gains on our risk is cut in half?
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: DrTalos on January 05, 2017, 01:15:08 AM
No, Jerome, I am not angry. You made me smile, actually, because you reminded me of a old tale, about a fox and a grape.
My first "words of encouragment" was meant to give hope to developers and players to pursue the search of the HG, and I do not remember to encourage them to publish their consideration so to take advantage on their work, to fix an idea I could not develop by myself. On the other hand, if I don't have already a working system in my hands, how can I guide you through yours, with all the informations I gave?

When I say the idea must come before the operational system is because you have a weakness on the game and you need a way to address it and conquer it. Without an idea first you risk to get drowned in numbers.
I still believe you all will not achieve my system, not because you are stupid or something like that, but because you will find your own way to it, and it will differ from mine.
Nowadays, roulette tables and roulette machines are in their farewell trip. Casinos offer the most lucrative and less expensive slots, so the area of real table or air roulette is shrinking. My fear is that if many players can get a profit from a winning system, well, the last nail on roulette's coffin is in. So, as you can see, I am fighting a personal struggle with the desire to help you (I have been there, chasing my system) and the necessity to keep it as secret as possible. I found a compromise with my posts and my little advises.

Back to work: I do not relay on luck. Never! I never play few numbers, and some of your considerations are wrong, Jerome (I don't go back in your posts to point that out, but you said something like that I need 3 or 4 hits in next few spins... This is not real. If you want, I will go back and check it precisely). I think Reyth had brought some wonderful ideas, and you have plenty of possibilities to explore. Probably someone else following this thread has opinions that he should share, to help you out. I hope this happens. I follow your efforts with pleasure and pushing for you, and not because you will provide a system to me. Believe me, Jerome, I have it already!
My first two bets are:
1 Low or High with 1 unit
2 Low or High with 2 units
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: slpcorner on January 05, 2017, 01:23:19 AM
"Probably someone else following this thread has opinions that he should share,

... I would consider this a clue... I think he's seen someone else post something that may hold a key.
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: Reyth on January 05, 2017, 01:31:26 AM
LH(1).............-1...0:18
LH(2).............-3...0:36
----------------------
LH(6) DS(2)....-11...0:60      <===> profit boundary
================= <===> recovery begins
DZ(3) DZ(3).......-17..0:84
LH(6) DS(2).......-25..0:108
DZ(5) DZ(5).......-35..0:132
DZ(7) DZ(7).......-49..0:156
DZ(10) DZ(10)....-69..0:180
LH(21) DS(7)......-97..0:204

It seems this progression fails to make the grade, hitting 97 pieces on spin 9; its actually only off by one spin; I used a 5 point divisor the whole way; wouldn't it be funny if he ended up using the actual 6 point divisor?

LOL.

DZ(2) DZ(2) -15
DZ(3) DZ(3) -21
DZ(4) DZ(4)   -29
DZ(5) DZ(5) -39
DZ(7) DZ(7) -53
DZ(9) DZ(9) -71
DZ(12) DZ(12) -93 <==== BINGO!!!!!

WE DISCOVERED HIS BETTING PATTERN. :D

The fact we know he uses a divisor is huge!

Quote
For example at spin number 10 I know I need 4 hits in a short period, or five in a longer one. I assure you it is quite rare reach spin number 10 without any hit!

I misinterpreted that to mean he had a range of 5 but what he was really saying was HE ALREADY HAD 1 OF HIS 6 HITS!

Dang this is quite the gift he has given us.  The basic foundation of his system.

<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>

The fact that he has chosen Low/High shows that he is geographically oriented regarding the felt and imo it also means he is staking out his territory for "the wheel's weakness" which as he has already stated is:

Quote
If you select a number, you can select just the one that will not show itself for 300 spins. It is hard but can happen. Will be a lot more unusual that after that the second number you select will go for other 300, and after that the third you play, and the forth, and so on and so forth. Mathematically can happen, but in your lifetime it won't. Some of them you will hit in the first three/four spins.  So, my idea is just rely on that consideration, keeping my outstanding balance low enough to not get crazy, and playing for enough spins to let the variance work a little in my favor. If the table close or broke (happens in the soft air wheels) I play in another table as I was keep playing in the previous one, because nothing really changes (remember, I don't care about numbers).

Obviously he cares about making sure we stay on the same numbers otherwise he wouldn't say "will go for" in the future tense regarding all selections.  He is clearly instructing us on how to address the wheel's only weakness by selecting more numbers and primarily on the side of the board he has selected.

I wonder if he might never play less than 18 numbers actually...
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: Reyth on January 05, 2017, 03:09:24 AM
"Probably someone else following this thread has opinions that he should share,

... I would consider this a clue... I think he's seen someone else post something that may hold a key.

There is this guy:

Quote from: Ainz
I think you can resolve CANON 32 with CANON 54 and 51. Spin 1 and 2 are both with 18 numbers (18+18=36). Then from spin 3 to 10 with 24 (24*7 = 168) and 168+36 = 228. "the difference is the way I bet after not hitting in the first two spins".

Additionally you have CANON 21 "waiting for a situation to occur, a situation that statistically happens one time every two spins", 18 numbers = even chances.

As he says, in CANON 39 "The game is usually short, because of the large amount of numbers involved."

Its clearly impossible that all these numbers should line up perfectly, especially 0:60 (spin #3) and then the remaining 7 spins (0:228 and -93).

@Jerome: So now you KNOW you have to use the divisor right?
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: Sheridan44 on January 05, 2017, 04:54:03 AM
Reyth and Jerome are doing great work with this, but by all means they are not going it alone. I,(and I assume) others are working on this too. I've been tinkering every day with this information...but I haven't posted much of anything because it all still seems somewhat murky to me at this point. Until I get a basic grasp on the important stuff (fundamentals, progression, bankroll, etc)....and other variables....I'll keep burning some midnight oil. It's tedious - but fun. I have faith that we're on to something. We've got a lot of sharp cookies in here, and if nothing else, it should broaden our insights - and who knows, it might trigger some new ideas on possible methods unrelated to the Talos. There should be some good information to salvage and use. Keep on truckin' guys!  :)
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: jerome26b on January 05, 2017, 09:58:40 AM
LH(1).............-1...0:18
LH(2).............-3...0:36
----------------------
LH(6) DS(2)....-11...0:60      <===> profit boundary
================= <===> recovery begins
DZ(3) DZ(3).......-17..0:84
LH(6) DS(2).......-25..0:108
DZ(5) DZ(5).......-35..0:132
DZ(7) DZ(7).......-49..0:156
DZ(10) DZ(10)....-69..0:180
LH(21) DS(7)......-97..0:204

It seems this progression fails to make the grade, hitting 97 pieces on spin 9; its actually only off by one spin; I used a 5 point divisor the whole way; wouldn't it be funny if he ended up using the actual 6 point divisor?

LOL.

DZ(2) DZ(2) -15
DZ(3) DZ(3) -21
DZ(4) DZ(4)   -29
DZ(5) DZ(5) -39
DZ(7) DZ(7) -53
DZ(9) DZ(9) -71
DZ(12) DZ(12) -93 <==== BINGO!!!!!

WE DISCOVERED HIS BETTING PATTERN. :D

The fact we know he uses a divisor is huge!

Quote
For example at spin number 10 I know I need 4 hits in a short period, or five in a longer one. I assure you it is quite rare reach spin number 10 without any hit!

I misinterpreted that to mean he had a range of 5 but what he was really saying was HE ALREADY HAD 1 OF HIS 6 HITS!

Dang this is quite the gift he has given us.  The basic foundation of his system.

<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>

The fact that he has chosen Low/High shows that he is geographically oriented regarding the felt and imo it also means he is staking out his territory for "the wheel's weakness" which as he has already stated is:

Quote
If you select a number, you can select just the one that will not show itself for 300 spins. It is hard but can happen. Will be a lot more unusual that after that the second number you select will go for other 300, and after that the third you play, and the forth, and so on and so forth. Mathematically can happen, but in your lifetime it won't. Some of them you will hit in the first three/four spins.  So, my idea is just rely on that consideration, keeping my outstanding balance low enough to not get crazy, and playing for enough spins to let the variance work a little in my favor. If the table close or broke (happens in the soft air wheels) I play in another table as I was keep playing in the previous one, because nothing really changes (remember, I don't care about numbers).

Obviously he cares about making sure we stay on the same numbers otherwise he wouldn't say "will go for" in the future tense regarding all selections.  He is clearly instructing us on how to address the wheel's only weakness by selecting more numbers and primarily on the side of the board he has selected.

I wonder if he might never play less than 18 numbers actually...

Reyth,

it's not very far from the second progression i used just the fact that you made the mix of my first and second one to achieve the -93 at the tenth spin, and respect the profit 1/60 at the very beginning great work !
So the first three bets are the same as i was using in the progression i elaborate few monts ago already.
1-2-8 (EC/EC/2DZ)
So now that MrTalos gave us the first 2 bets, i got it already but i was playing more RED/BLACK scenario,
i don't really know if it's important in his scenario to select more an EC than another, maybe for his pattern to "avoid mistakes" like he said.

in one of his first posts he said that he was finding a well known progression that was good for him and he perfected it so for sure the basis is somewhere "public" already. maybe it's based on the very good Victor and Lanky work who knows ...
In fact the use of a divisor is quite inate or intuitive at a moment you're working with a ratio to achieve.

have a good day !

Jérôme
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: jerome26b on January 05, 2017, 10:17:27 AM
Reyth and Jerome are doing great work with this, but by all means they are not going it alone. I,(and I assume) others are working on this too. I've been tinkering every day with this information...but I haven't posted much of anything because it all still seems somewhat murky to me at this point. Until I get a basic grasp on the important stuff (fundamentals, progression, bankroll, etc)....and other variables....I'll keep burning some midnight oil. It's tedious - but fun. I have faith that we're on to something. We've got a lot of sharp cookies in here, and if nothing else, it should broaden our insights - and who knows, it might trigger some new ideas on possible methods unrelated to the Talos. There should be some good information to salvage and use. Keep on truckin' guys!  :)

Sheridan,

good to have other people thinking about it, in fact at the very beginning i was reading all the MrTalos posts and search for a moment before i decided to post the first time here, just because at a moment i worked already a lot and i wanted to have a reaction of the system creator about my researchs and my blocking points, and some needs of clarifications as well.
Don't hesitate to post your ideas specially the crazy ones you can have and we don't think about, like these two ones :

- any kind of progression that is not so common but can be maybe used.
- the core, philosophical aspect idea behind the system.

kind regards,

Jérôme
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: jerome26b on January 05, 2017, 10:42:58 AM
No, Jerome, I am not angry. You made me smile, actually, because you reminded me of a old tale, about a fox and a grape.
My first "words of encouragment" was meant to give hope to developers and players to pursue the search of the HG, and I do not remember to encourage them to publish their consideration so to take advantage on their work, to fix an idea I could not develop by myself. On the other hand, if I don't have already a working system in my hands, how can I guide you through yours, with all the informations I gave?

When I say the idea must come before the operational system is because you have a weakness on the game and you need a way to address it and conquer it. Without an idea first you risk to get drowned in numbers.
I still believe you all will not achieve my system, not because you are stupid or something like that, but because you will find your own way to it, and it will differ from mine.
Nowadays, roulette tables and roulette machines are in their farewell trip. Casinos offer the most lucrative and less expensive slots, so the area of real table or air roulette is shrinking. My fear is that if many players can get a profit from a winning system, well, the last nail on roulette's coffin is in. So, as you can see, I am fighting a personal struggle with the desire to help you (I have been there, chasing my system) and the necessity to keep it as secret as possible. I found a compromise with my posts and my little advises.

Back to work: I do not relay on luck. Never! I never play few numbers, and some of your considerations are wrong, Jerome (I don't go back in your posts to point that out, but you said something like that I need 3 or 4 hits in next few spins... This is not real. If you want, I will go back and check it precisely). I think Reyth had brought some wonderful ideas, and you have plenty of possibilities to explore. Probably someone else following this thread has opinions that he should share, to help you out. I hope this happens. I follow your efforts with pleasure and pushing for you, and not because you will provide a system to me. Believe me, Jerome, I have it already!
My first two bets are:
1 Low or High with 1 unit
2 Low or High with 2 units
Hello MrTalos

first of all i will explain the problem or incomprehension, it's in you Q&A:

Do you need a “magical” combination in order to win?
Not at all. All is needed is that I hit an average of 1 every 60 numbers played (or better). As soon as this threshold is reached, the game is won. Has happen I had to wait more than 180 numbers played before the first hit, then in the next 15 spins or so, with three more hit, the game was over.

so here's my analysis and correct me if i'm wrong :
first hit after 180 numbers we are 1:180, if we need 3 hits only to finish the game it means necessarily we need to have these 3 more hits in the next 60 numbers played right ? Otherwise we will be more than x:240 and one more hit will be required. So to have 3 hits with 60 numbers max played in the next 15 spins means necessary we drastically reduced the number played, am i missing something ? OR maybe it's another solution when you talk about hitting it can have a different meanings that i didn't checked before... hmmm interresting.
and on the same problematic i can add the CANON 31.

Something else i'm surprised you're scared about the end of roulette in the casinos in LA, you noticed a difference within last few years ? Maybe the reason is with the growing market of online casinos... and specially the live wheels online, they are growing up in market in Belgium for example. I can really tell you it's growing up here last 2 years, many popular internet sites do many live broadcast on TV now and it seems to be a juicy market. So maybe the real live roulette is dying a little bit but many casinos already switched to the new market having the real and the broadcast at the same time like dublinbet for example just to give one. It's my two cents about this but i don't think the roulette is dead but the market is moving to another direction adapting to new technologies.
The only problem with online if you got a winning system you can be banned as well but there's some techniques to prevent that that are very strong if you are a serious winner... but it's another topic we have to be consistent winner first.

kind regards.

Jérôme
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: jerome26b on January 05, 2017, 04:32:13 PM
Ya ur right it makes sense to jam the 24 to get that hit.  Funny how he said he missed 16 times once which is about the practical limit on 24 numbers...

But 4 DS?  That's 4:24:2.

Well with only 4 units to work with I guess it will be impossible to beat 4 DS...

DS (1) DS(1) DS(1) QD(1) SP(1)

QD(1) QD(1) QD(1) QD(1) QD(1) QD(1) = 6:24:3 is pretty much the same thing...

yes first hit at the 16th spins is very very exceptionnal situation, it's missing the first 2 EC bets then missing 13 times a 24 numbers bets... at this moment i only witnesses a dozen repeating 9 times for the most but i suppose the record is quite higher.

Jérôme
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: jerome26b on January 05, 2017, 04:59:51 PM
wow my brain got suddenly something new about the possible "revolutionnary" progression he's using and yes it's quite bizzare... but logical with all we got already i've to leave now to an exhibition cause i'm living at european time and i finished my working day but i will think a little bit more about that... you are all living in USA in this forum ? I've the feeling i'm the only one active during the European daytime  ;D
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: chuckpapa on January 05, 2017, 06:22:34 PM
Jerome - I am in UK even though I only lurk (I am pretty new to Roulette coming from a few years of AP in Blackjack and feel that my contribution is not much valuable at this point!)
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: scepticus on January 05, 2017, 06:39:15 PM
Jerome - I am in UK even though I only lurk (I am pretty new to Roulette coming from a few years of AP in Blackjack and feel that my contribution is not much valuable at this point!)

Yes.chuckpapa there are quite a few members here who live in the UK and I think that, overall, there are more  Europeans than Yanks. Perhaps Yanks are more vociferous than Europeans ?
I like Dr. Palos' approach. Ideas come first and that  Methods  members win with should not be shared because the casinos WOULD take action- even if only banning them. Hints - Yes - but not the total method.
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: chuckpapa on January 05, 2017, 07:10:38 PM
Jerome - I am in UK even though I only lurk (I am pretty new to Roulette coming from a few years of AP in Blackjack and feel that my contribution is not much valuable at this point!)

Yes.chuckpapa there are quite a few members here who live in the UK and I think that, overall, there are more  Europeans than Yanks. Perhaps Yanks are more vociferous than Europeans ?
I like Dr. Palos' approach. Ideas come first and that  Methods  members win with should not be shared because the casinos WOULD take action- even if only banning them. Hints - Yes - but not the total method.

Totally this - Not counting the struggle, frustration and time spent developing a system that apparently works and divulging this information for free!
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: Reyth on January 05, 2017, 09:00:50 PM
Quote from: The Talos Core Progression
LH(1).............-1...0:18
LH(2).............-3...0:36
----------------------
LH(6) DS(2)....-11...0:60      <===> profit boundary
================= <===> recovery begins
DZ(2) DZ(2) -15 0:84
DZ(3) DZ(3) -21 0:108
DZ(4) DZ(4)   -29 0:132
DZ(5) DZ(5) -39 0:156
DZ(7) DZ(7) -53 0:180
DZ(9) DZ(9) -71 0:204     Bankroll=1331 Next Bet: DZ(12) DZ(12) = 24 = .018 MBA
DZ(12) DZ(12) -93 0:228 Bankroll=1307 Next Bet: DZ(16) DZ(16) = 32 = .024 MBA

So the max MBA here appears to be .02 -- if we surpass that then its time to move the bet selection inward.

We need to win 32 units (6 divisor) for a MBA of less than 2 which is a bet of 26.

What biggest group bet for 26 units that will win us 32 units?

We can bet 16 numbers below the DZ+Quad option for only 16+4=20 units.  We should do this until the MBA changes, while keeping our divisor at 6.

Quote
If its not 6 (DS), it has to be:

8 DS + Split
9 DS + Street

12 DZ
14 DZ + Split
15 DZ + Street
16 DZ + Quad <=== 16+4=20 units

18 EC

...etc. out to 24.

Quote from: The Talos FAQ
Has happen I had to wait more than 180 numbers played before the first hit, then in the next 15 spins or so, with three more hit, the game was over.

I think we should assume here that he means he is 1:204 and not 1:180!

DZ(5) DZ(5) -39 0:156
DZ(7) DZ(7) -53 0:180
DZ(9) DZ(9) -71 0:204

And therefore his debt is 53 minus 9=44 units.

So he takes 3 wins and about 15 spins to recoup a debt of 44 units.  You see, he is showing us his EXACT recovery!

He is clearly being extremely careful & I wouldn't be surprised to find that ultimately he is applying a divisor there as welll...

This is the next and very important step in the mystery that we are very close to figuring out...

An option that seems to spring to mind is to drop down to an EC and apply a divisor of 5; he might just start the progression over...

Btw, as a side note, what are the odds of going 0:228? 99.82% so ya, not bad.

Back to your regularly scheduled programming...

If I was to start the progression over, with a divisor of 6 for 44 units I would be placing a bet of 8 units on the EC...

However, 44/3=14.67 which is certainly more than 8 and less as we go.  So unless we have our figures wrong, he is NOT starting the progression over with a divisor of 6 but seemingly something more aggressive...

By his statement of "3 more hits and the game was over" COULD actually suggest a divisor of 3...  If I was starting the progression over with a divisor of 3 on 44 units, I would place a bet of 15 units on the EC.

Or I could:

Place 8 units on a dozen
Place 4 units on a DS, [3 units on a quad]

It just seems pretty aggressive to bet 15 units, starting the progression over because if it runs the gamut, the debt would be a terrible 1395 units...

1395 units... sounds alot like 1400 but no, that couldn't be could it?

One very important thing that we must be sure not to overlook is that it took him 15 spins to achieve this win; the profit range of the core progression is only 3 spins and anything outside of 9 spins would indicate a hit farther down in the progression, hence even more debt...

Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: jerome26b on January 05, 2017, 10:47:08 PM
wow very good deduction
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: jerome26b on January 05, 2017, 10:56:42 PM
Quote from: The Talos Core Progression
LH(1).............-1...0:18
LH(2).............-3...0:36
----------------------
LH(6) DS(2)....-11...0:60      <===> profit boundary
================= <===> recovery begins
DZ(2) DZ(2) -15 0:84
DZ(3) DZ(3) -21 0:108
DZ(4) DZ(4)   -29 0:132
DZ(5) DZ(5) -39 0:156
DZ(7) DZ(7) -53 0:180
DZ(9) DZ(9) -71 0:204
DZ(12) DZ(12) -93 0:228

Quote from: The Talos FAQ
Has happen I had to wait more than 180 numbers played before the first hit, then in the next 15 spins or so, with three more hit, the game was over.

I think we should assume here that he means he is 1:204 and not 1:180!

DZ(5) DZ(5) -39 0:156
DZ(7) DZ(7) -53 0:180
DZ(9) DZ(9) -71 0:204

And therefore his debt is 53 minus 9=44 units.

So he takes 3 wins and about 15 spins to recoup a debt of 44 units.  You see, he is showing us his EXACT recovery!

He is clearly being extremely careful & I wouldn't be surprised to find that ultimately he is applying a divisor there as welll...

This is the next and very important step in the mystery that we are very close to figuring out...

An option that seems to spring to mind is to drop down to an EC and apply a divisor of 5; he might just start the progression over...

Btw, as a side note, what are the odds of going 0:228? 99.82% so ya, not bad.

Back to your regularly scheduled programming...

If I was to start the progression over, with a divisor of 6 for 44 units I would be placing a bet of 8 units on the EC...

However, 44/3=14.67 which is certainly more than 8 and less as we go.  So unless we have our figures wrong, he is NOT starting the progression over with a divisor of 6 but seemingly something more aggressive...

By his statement of "3 more hits and the game was over" COULD actually suggest a divisor of 3...  If I was starting the progression over with a divisor of 3 on 44 units, I would place a bet of 15 units on the EC.

Or I could:

Place 8 units on a dozen
Place 4 units on a DS, [3 units on a quad]

It just seems pretty aggressive to bet 15 units, starting the progression over because if it runs the gamut, the debt would be a terrible 1395 units...

1395 units... sounds alot like 1400 but no, that couldn't be could it?

One very important thing that we must be sure not to overlook is that it took him 15 spins to achieve this win; the profit range of the core progression is only 3 spins and anything outside of 9 spins would indicate a hit farther down in the progression, hence even more debt...

yes i assumed that but in any way it means drastically reducing the numbers he's betting. related to his last posts i don't believe he can bet 4 even a line the very less i can imagine is 8 numbers but i will be more in 10 or 12. just because otherwise you will be exposed in some way to sleepers. it can happen for many ways in spins with 4-6-8 numbers quite less with 10-12. simple maths no ?
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: Reyth on January 05, 2017, 11:16:48 PM
I think we should work the progression out for 15 spins with an average hit every 5 spins.  If he is starting the progression over with a divisor, I don't think its possible to win that way with each win being so spread out; if he had said "in 10 spins or so the game was over" I wouldn't have a problem with it.

I don't think he is worried about sleepers but just the speed of the growth of the ratio; i.e. stuffing as many numbers in the ratio as quickly as possible for the least amount of money, while still appropriately attacking the debt.

There is also something else that doesn't make sense.  His statement about playing 18 numbers for 20 spins?  What is that about?  Nothing in the core progression suggests that.  So I wonder if he has a different recovery progression similar to:

12 12 13 14 14 15 16 16 17 18 18 19 20 20 21 22 22 23 24 24

Equals 360 numbers in 20 spins; he could probably work something out like that using DS,QD, ST & SP.
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: kav on January 06, 2017, 12:30:17 AM
Just a thought, since you have very specific canons, would it be possible for dr. Talos to just at least point out the totally incorrect canons (assumptions)?
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: Sheridan44 on January 06, 2017, 12:37:12 AM
This is my initial take on the Talos...

From what I can gather from the fragments of the methodology, the Talos seems to have many characteristics that are similar to the "Target" method (as I call it). The "Target", and methods akin to it, are called by various names on this board.

The Target has many features that I like. The main one being that it can pursue higher payoffs as your betting continues without raising your wager. You can run a full Target (34 spins) with only flat betting. A hit at any point locks in a profit for the cycle.

The idea is to "target" a particular number, by exclusively selecting sectors of the board which contain this number, including EC's, Dozens, Double Streets, Quads, Streets, Splits, etc... in an escalating fashion.

The problem (as it relates to the Talos) is - as you progress, the odds of hitting decrease because you must select areas of the board that are continually getting smaller in coverage, until you are just betting the number itself (straight up).

The trick - as I see it - is to find different ways and/or combinations to maximize coverage with the least amount to bet.  Talos has stated that he "never plays just one number" so he seems to have found a method to solve this enigma. Perhaps by going no further than using Double Streets, Quads, Streets, or a combination thereof - and possibly proceeding with a mild betting progression.

He hints that sometimes a particular sector or sectors may not hit for many spins (sometimes up to a hundred or more), so possibly a no-show "trigger" is involved.

Nevertheless this is one of the things that jumped out at me, as I study his information.
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: DrTalos on January 06, 2017, 12:40:50 AM
Jerome, I kinda appreciate your sarcasm, but really there is no need for that.
You stated that I need 3 hits in 15 spins playing 4 numbers. Well, this statement makes no sense. My progression allows me to play a lot more numbers without breaking the bank. In the scenario, I have 15 spins to get three hits, or I could say 8 spins to get 2, or 3 to get one (I don't give the exact number this time, I just wanna give you an idea). I have partial recovery but I will always be in position to end the game positively, and playing enough numbers to have odds in my favor, or because I play more than 19 numbers, or because I have played so much numbers that at a certain point I have to hit something (I simplify so to let you get the concept).

Yes, times changes and roulette on the casino will disappear sooner or later. I will never switch to online or virtual, because I don't trust this kind of things. I am old fashion, my bad.
I played in Europe, in USA and in Australia, in Asia and on a cruise ship on international waters, always getting something back (very little in the cruise, because I had seasickness and throw up for most of the time...). This been said, I don't really care if you or anyone else believe me or not. If you can get something from my indications, you will be the one rewarded for this, not me. If Reyth find his way to his HG will not send a slice of his winning to me, for sure. And shouldn't be, because he will deserve any coin he gets from his hard work!
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: jerome26b on January 06, 2017, 10:58:52 AM
MrTalos,

i don't see where do you see the sarcasm, you told me that you can explain the problem i was facing with something you said in your Q&A and i explained my issue understanding the point, i think it's quite clear and logical.
We have first hit after 180 numbers so we are 1:180 if we want to finish under the 1/60 ratio with 3 hits it should be necessary having these 3 hits in the following 60 numbers played (before the 240 numbers limit). Maybe Reyth can explain me if i misunderstood or misinterpret something ? ok we can achieve it by hitting directly 3*20 numbers played. Othewise we are beyond 240 and we will need an extra hit according to the ratio.

At least from now i know i don't have maybe to interpret word by word all that you're saying; and it's good cause i will not be stucked by all the "CANONS" to find a system; afterwards it's your objective that we found our own way. You gave some clues and we have to face our way and destiny ;-)

To be honnest i think you gave the whole idea and i don't see how you can explain more without giving decisive piece of your system so the work now is in our hands. Of course your reactions are always appreciate to give your advise with your experience if we are going in the wall

It's good some other people now break their silence and started to give some ideas to work on, not to find your system but find maybe another good working one; or maybe (the best solution) to have everybody the sufficient pieces and exchange of knowledge to elaborate one of our own. We are conscious if we elaborate a winning system together here all the world will use it quickly and it will be useless... it's finally the problem you related with your system as well.

It's the reason i prefer to exchange ideas here but not giving all pieces i'm working on as well (it's tempting in fact sometimes).

So now that some others are working on i forgot to add an important thing last time, it's the basis where you took the idea of your system. We know that you're playing it since 4 years if i remember well and that you worked sometime around it to perfect it and so we have to find a system that was elaborated around that moment or previously. Maybe a system that is prior 2010...

Sheridan gave an idea already with the target system, i remember i was reading about this system on vls or another forum. Some people elaborate great systems and there were famous contributors on some forums. I remember a post where somebody said there was already some HG released on gambler glens forum, i don't know if it's true or not, but maybe some HG are just lost in the mass of messages and nobody is really trying them seriously...

It's the same with your system i was surprised to discover your post about your Q&A without serious reaction for months and i started to post in september; i had the feeling at that moment i was the only one taking your system seriously into consideration; and after some exchanges suddenly in december Reyth creates this topic and it gaves again some interests and dynamics. I have the feeling that people maybe worked secretely trying to find the trick without reacting on the forum.

a last word about the live roulette play, playing on airball roulette is not quite different than playing online with real dealers, in fact i don't trust these airball roulette, specially if you're alone at the table. But like you said you never played alone so the system has to choose some sumbers at a moment. But these airball roulette use variable speed rotor system in order to be impossible to take advantage for advantage players using VB, bias or dealer signature. But if you're always winning on this one you're right to play on it. Anyway i think even the modern roulette with dealers use this variable speed rotor system nowadays...

Jérôme
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: jerome26b on January 06, 2017, 11:37:55 AM

I think we should assume here that he means he is 1:204 and not 1:180!

DZ(5) DZ(5) -39 0:156
DZ(7) DZ(7) -53 0:180
DZ(9) DZ(9) -71 0:204

And therefore his debt is 53 minus 9=44 units.

So he takes 3 wins and about 15 spins to recoup a debt of 44 units.  You see, he is showing us his EXACT recovery!

He is clearly being extremely careful & I wouldn't be surprised to find that ultimately he is applying a divisor there as welll...

This is the next and very important step in the mystery that we are very close to figuring out...

Btw, as a side note, what are the odds of going 0:228? 99.82% so ya, not bad.

Reyth,

i've no issue with that, i can assume we are 1:204 and that he needs 3 more hits but to respect the ratio these 3 hits must be done before playing the total of 240 right ? otherwise according the ratio (up to 300 we need a 4th number). So to have these 3 more hits with so low numbers to play in the next 15 spins we have quite limited options. Only 36 numbers in total for catching 3 hits... i have the feeling nobody is understanding my concern about that. Sorry i'm always focused on this 1/60 ratio cause it's one important plan of his system right ? He elaborates his system around that objective so i'm always trying to work around this.

For the 0:228 yes it's a very rare situation, i didn't do the probability math about this event to happend but i think it's something like you figure out. In my 4000 real spin file it never happend once in fact so yes it's very rare situation to go to the 10 spins without a single hit, like having 8 same dozen or column in a row. I've seen it 2-3 times in my file but i was catching the win on the EC a that moment so i was not impacted by this bad streak; and it's an important point as well, you catch many small wins in the first 2-3 spins so you avoid many of the bad situations.
And because it's very rare situation, no need to be crazy with progression and put all your money in that scenario to recover your losses.

kind regards,

Jérôme
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: Reyth on January 06, 2017, 03:26:57 PM
Well I was thinking something last night.  You want to know what is rare going 0:228X2 for 0:456; that's a once in a lifetime event.

Its not that far off at only 15 spins and he said that he goes "one hit at a time, always remaining in position to end the game"; i.e. he is using a divisor for the debt which we know now for certain.

We also know something else.  His "favorite progression" that he modified?  It IS the 6 Point Divisor. :)

First lets look at a less than perfect scenario:

18...1:204...15...-44
18...1:222...30...-74 <=== no longer within 0:60
24...1:240...26...-100 <=== he reduces his divisor back to 6

I think we should assume a hit here for the sake of the example.  So now he is 2:264 which is the equivalent of 0:88 and has a debt of 61 units and so he continues with the divisor.

18...2:264...11...-72
18...2:282...22...-94
24...2:306...32...-126

We again assume a hit and he is now 3:306 with a debt of 110 units.  His ratio is the equivalent of 0:77 and so he continues with the divisor of 6.

18...3:324...19...-129
18...3:342...38...-167
24...3:366...56...-223

So his third hit with a ratio of 4:366 which is 0:74.  To end from this point in the shortest time he will need:

18...4:384...33...-172 HIT
18...5:402...24...-196 HIT (now at 0:58)
18...6:420...149..+1 HIT

So this is obviously 6 hits and only 12 spins.

I think the practical minimum is 2 spins, HIT, 2 spins HIT & like probabaly 4 spins AT MOST before the ratio escapes him and so like 8 spins.  This is why I said that 10 spins is acceptable to me because, giving the fact that he fudges the ratio by sight only, a couple extra spins in there can happen.

:shrug: I don't know what to say.  I only know he uses a divisor and he must be moving it up and down as he goes.
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: jerome26b on January 06, 2017, 03:37:21 PM
I think we should work the progression out for 15 spins with an average hit every 5 spins.  If he is starting the progression over with a divisor, I don't think its possible to win that way with each win being so spread out; if he had said "in 10 spins or so the game was over" I wouldn't have a problem with it.

I don't think he is worried about sleepers but just the speed of the growth of the ratio; i.e. stuffing as many numbers in the ratio as quickly as possible for the least amount of money, while still appropriately attacking the debt.

There is also something else that doesn't make sense.  His statement about playing 18 numbers for 20 spins?  What is that about?  Nothing in the core progression suggests that.  So I wonder if he has a different recovery progression similar to:

12 12 13 14 14 15 16 16 17 18 18 19 20 20 21 22 22 23 24 24

Equals 360 numbers in 20 spins; he could probably work something out like that using DS,QD, ST & SP.

Reyth,

i'm quite convinced now he's using a combination of chances and so it's probably the reason as well he's so sure we will not find the exact system he's playing, but i suppose he worked a lot to find an "optimum". But we can find another one... Probably the ratio 1/40, 1/45, 1/60 dictates in some ways the chances or i would say the numbers played at a moment. The more the ratio the more we can play average numbers by spin, the less the ratio , for example 1/40 the more we will reach the usual EC play 18 numbers. Like he said he was trying to extend at a moment the ratio beyond 1/60, who means probably playing maybe 27 or even 30 numbers maximum by spin, and we can imagine the games will be less risky but will be too long to recover. He chooses 1/60 but who know maybe a ratio lower like 1/50 can give good results as well ? We can play so less numbers, the bankroll will be less but we will catch hits less easily, so the games can even last longer in that case. I suppose he tried all these situations to find the optimum is 1/60.

Jérôme
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: jerome26b on January 06, 2017, 03:40:32 PM
Well I was thining something last night.  You want to know what is rare going 0:228X2 for 0:456; that's a once in a lifetime event.

Its not that far off at only 15 spins and he said that he goes "one hit at a time, always remaining in position to end the game"; i.e. he is using a divisor for the debt which we know now for certain.

We also know something else.  His "favorite progression" that he modified?  It IS the 6 Point Divisor. :)

It's quite possible Reyth, and it make sense cause it's one of the best money management method.
The funny thing if it's the one is the fact i studied a lot this method already 3-4 years ago but finally i didn't achive anything with it. I was studdying more the LW associated with the method and the progression playing only fixed selection like dozen, double dozen (or columns),

Jérôme
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: Reyth on January 06, 2017, 04:12:10 PM
It HAS to be that because his core progression IS the 6 Point Divisor PERFECTLY.

But I agree with you that we don't end games with an average of one hit every 3 spins; we SURVIVE with that average, which is required to accomodate the worst the wheel is going to bring.

All I can say is that I know he was describing this experience from memory & he doesn't keep written records.  He has already said that his mentioning 15 spins was to give a general idea, not an exact figure.
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: jerome26b on January 06, 2017, 04:35:33 PM
It HAS to be that because his core progression IS the 6 Point Divisor PERFECTLY.
ant it make sense with the numbers he bet that desserves the method perfectly.
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: Reyth on January 06, 2017, 06:44:00 PM
I think what we can take away from this is that HE USES A DIVISOR TO RECOUP 44 UNITS and its probably a divisor of 3 to get started with.

204/2=102 and so he is only 18 numbers away from that 3 divisor and so it makes sense he would be a little conservative instead of waiting that extra spin.
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: jerome26b on January 06, 2017, 08:26:44 PM
Yep the divisor is a tool that can be used with any system but it's proven to fail if it's not used correctly so it needs some adaptation. Maybe DrTalos perfect it with his system to a whole grail...

Jerome
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: juice on January 06, 2017, 09:30:35 PM
Gents, admirable work thus far. But any "close" to flat betting method requires a divisor.
The 6 point is very powerful, however, even with the safety break, can be a bit too aggressive for the ec's.
Perhaps, the Talos bet divides well with the pay off odds using the 6 point....
On a different note, I was lucky enough to have light contact with the good Dr. through P.M. that I initiated back in June 2016 and he responded late Sept. Here is what I took from our brief Q&A.....
1- As you all know...He AIN'T gonna give up the ghost!! But....he is very genuine with offering advise about how your "POTENTIAL GRAIL", compares to his. He wants you to win on your own!
2- He is an air ball player, predominantly. He will not be able to make a living on a real table, based on the speed of the game, with the exception of "chipping up", to greens or blacks, which I am sure he will do, because he already has the blueprint to complete "HIS" master plan to succeed incrementally, and air ball has a relatively low limit to play at levels higher than a dime.
3 to 17.....quite the spread I know but I took something very valuable from this cryptic spread.
(A)- I already played 13 numbers, every third # on the wheel with a divisor progression and
on a double zero wheel, removing 50% of the house edge. And we all know that we get
bunches of hits and then they go to sleep for awhile. Your progression is tailored to your
aggression, so to speak, it's not magic. I am not even a fan of this style of play, but I will pull
this tool out of the bag when trying to change up the monotony of daily play, I mean,
seriously, the ball just does not miss every third number, for any great length of time, I can
assure you. Especially if you insert virtual betting(I know sore subject to some), but easy
units made by the astute player.
(B)- His bet selection may not matter in his mind , but I feel this is not quite the case.
For example... when you play for a living, you are already a special kind of person.
Your heightened instinct and propensity for the natural desire to play is very often
overlooked by even yourself, it is kind of organically baked in....the stats and payouts and
strategies, philosophies, and so on, that bring each player to his or her roulette altar.
I have played a ton of air ball! and the one thing I can say about the games unique
characteristic, is that, it force feeds you real time data in less than a minute, and
for the novice, this is way too fast, but.... for the prepared player, what the casino would
consider a counter measure, Talos has turned to pure profit.
with a 50 count marque, you can prove to anyone who is a doubter, that the average
appearance rate of 38 positions in 36 spins is 13 to 15 numbers, give or take, this fact is
everywhere you want to look, even this forum(thanks, kav), I will not split hairs on the exact
math, because it is completely irrelevant. The point is If I were Talos, and it seems like many
players would like to be him, I would begin with playing, the last 5 numbers out, and adding on
from there. If only 13 to 15 number will come in 36 spins, it only makes sense that the
rest of the hits will be repeaters. I can personally testify that it is a rare event to not see a
number repeat(show up again) in the last 10 to 12 results. More often, you will see a
multiple number overlap. If I were Dr. Talos, I would take note of this very powerful fact,
if in fact he does not already!(wink,wink) With his personal progression, and some others, personal
progressions, this should be all the information needed.....
Don't get me wrong, some methods, including this one, can start out by making you feel
that you are trying to jump onto an already moving train, but I submit, that is a type of
"MECHANICAL" variance, for lack of a better term. This is why Talos, or anyone for that
matter, has a hard time giving you exact spin counts, even if he were willing.

I will end my post with, I am a great admirer of the mathematical mind, and the good folks on this forum are far more advanced then I can ever hope to be. But I play, I play for the rent, I play for the future, I play as if my life depends on it. Having said this, I leave you all with one piece of advice.....
BE YOUR OWN DR.TALOS!  IN EVERY WAY~
Whenever a system becomes completely defined, some damn fool discovers something that either abolishes the system or expands it beyond recognition.
--Brooke's Law

^^^^^^^^^^^^ YOU CAN'T MAKE THIS STUFF UP^^^^^^^^^^^^
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: DrTalos on January 07, 2017, 12:48:18 AM
So, Juice, that show exactly how bad mannered is my behavior! Months before answering!
As like all the people contacting me in private, you found that I never tried to sell the system, even a small portion of it, and I always had the same attitude (good or bad as it is) that I show posting in the site. I think this can mean something.

About the system, I appreciate all the contributions this thread has get since my "calling". Yes, I love the a spin/a minute ratio form the airball. The change of speed of the ball doesn't affect the result of my play. Sometimes, at a live table, you can have 6 spins in an hour!
As soon as I have some time, I will go through the CANONS to point out which are more relevant than others. Some assumptions from Reyth and others can be incorrect regarding my system, but can be correct developing a new one, so even if sometimes I find some "mistakes" in the reasoning, I think will not be useful correct them.

Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: Reyth on January 07, 2017, 12:56:45 PM
Quote from: The Full Talos Core Progression
LH(1).............-1...0:18
LH(2).............-3...0:36
----------------------
LH(6) DS(2)....-11...0:60      <===> profit boundary
================= <===> recovery begins
DZ(2) DZ(2) -15 0:84
DZ(3) DZ(3) -21 0:108
DZ(4) DZ(4)   -29 0:132
DZ(5) DZ(5) -39 0:156
DZ(7) DZ(7) -53 0:180
DZ(9) DZ(9) -71 0:204
DZ(12) DZ(12) -93 0:228
DZ(16) DZ(16) -125 0:252
DZ(21) DZ(21) -167 0:276
DZ(28) DZ(28) -223 0:300
DZ(38) DZ(38) -299 0:324
DZ(50) DZ(50) -399 0:348
DZ(67) DZ(67) -533 0:372

Quote from: Talos Canon
I had very bad sequences (the longest I remember was first hit at 16th spin, with the profit at spin 27).

We should be aware however that he also typed this:

Quote from: Talos Canon
CANON 54

For example playing 18 numbers in the first and second spin, then 24 from the 3rd to the 10th...

Even so, the deficit is well within bounds:

Quote from: Talos Canon
My systems total bankroll
is 950 units (never been close to that. The worst game touched a 590 units).
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: DrTalos on January 07, 2017, 01:53:59 PM
I think CANONS more relevant are:
4
18
20 (it means I do not play a even chances method. What I play changes during the game)
27
36 (the weakness of the wheel, the only point where all mathematicians attacked the game)
37 to 40
46
48
51
52
54 (do not take it literally though. A hit at any point changes the rest of the sequence)
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: jerome26b on January 07, 2017, 03:13:27 PM
Quote from: The Full Talos Core Progression
LH(1).............-1...0:18
LH(2).............-3...0:36
----------------------
LH(6) DS(2)....-11...0:60      <===> profit boundary
================= <===> recovery begins
DZ(2) DZ(2) -15 0:84
DZ(3) DZ(3) -21 0:108
DZ(4) DZ(4)   -29 0:132
DZ(5) DZ(5) -39 0:156
DZ(7) DZ(7) -53 0:180
DZ(9) DZ(9) -71 0:204
DZ(12) DZ(12) -93 0:228
DZ(16) DZ(16) -125 0:252
DZ(21) DZ(21) -167 0:276
DZ(28) DZ(28) -223 0:300
DZ(38) DZ(38) -299 0:324
DZ(50) DZ(50) -399 0:348
DZ(67) DZ(67) -533 0:372

Quote from: Talos Canon
I had very bad sequences (the longest I remember was first hit at 16th spin, with the profit at spin 27).

We should be aware however that he also typed this:

Quote from: Talos Canon
CANON 54

For example playing 18 numbers in the first and second spin, then 24 from the 3rd to the 10th...

Even so, the deficit is well within bounds:

Quote from: Talos Canon
My systems total bankroll
is 950 units (never been close to that. The worst game touched a 590 units).

Reyth,

how did you calculate the betting sequence ? a little mistake by the way at spin 10th its 11 on each dozen and not 12 to achieve the -93. I think the great thing is to reduce the betting at 4th spin, it let the progression to still being low specially at the beginning and we knows we hit something quite usually in the first 6-7spins, it's rare to go beyond. Going to spin 16th is an exceptionnal, i would say a lifetime event. Of course when we are at this point it's not yet done and we have to recover. I have really the feeling that at this moment his method was in a borderline situation and it was a possible loss of bankroll situation. But who cares to loose a 1000 units bankroll if you gain already more than one hundred time this amount and you know statistically it will quite never reproduce in your life. Of course it's better for your confidence and your ego (i don't mean something bad about that term) to know that your system never crashed.
Maybe the purist can say there's no HG, or yes with an unlimited br like we know the martingale is with unlimited money. In my opinion if a system is failling only once in 100000 spins i will consider it as an HG. Any system that will bring me in serious plus after a milestone i will consider it as an HG. We don't have to forget it's a boredom activity, quite easy money but a grinding process (and i'm not talking about other problems associated by this kind of life : no certainty in the future, difficult to got a mortgage etc etc...) For some people it's maybe better to find a job than playing like that, or just do a gambling activity i would say... or find a system that is bringing more money for the time invested at the table.

Jérôme.
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: juice on January 07, 2017, 04:51:03 PM
I feel that cannon 36, is all that is needed.   Perhaps a new topic that should be started is simply…… What is the only weakness  that the wheel has? I believe if you answer this correctly, that the progression will come to you . I myself have my own answer to this question.  But it would be a great topic. All human mechanical flaws already considered by the AP players excluded.
Thank you Dr., for your abridged version of what is important amongst the cannons that Reyth has so graciously taking the time to break down.
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: Reyth on January 07, 2017, 09:43:58 PM
@Jerome:  Thanks for pointing out the mistake.  After the 3rd bet I simply applied the 6 point divisor to each bet thereafter and I THOUGHT it came out perfectly at -93 but as you point out, it did not and will be off by 2 units...

The way I am playing it right now (recovery) is to take the 0:60 and under bets on the EC wagers (start the progression over when at 0:60 and better) to keep the expenses as low as possible and then use the DZ/DZ bets to get hits so we can try again.

I'm hoping that as long as we respect the 1:60 ratio it will keep us safe...?
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: Scarface on January 09, 2017, 11:14:39 PM
I think I know what Dr Talos is doing here.  I know his methodology, but not his system.  I think there are several systems that can win, not necessarily just the one Talos uses.

Progression is necessary to overcome the house edge.  Problem is, progressions can get you in deep doodoo.  A very long string of losses followed by a win followed again by a long string of losses can break the bank.

Keep your bets as low as possible to avoid long strings of losses.  After a win, you'll use a divisor to determine what to wager until the next win.  Keep doing this....variance will come back to your favor eventually, even if it's just a small cluster.  The divisor has to be very modest...don't think in terms of trying to break even in 5 spins.

I'm working on a system now that looks very promising...still more testing before I reveal.  It is a grind, but safe.  Started off with \$5 bets, and bets never got higher than \$20....had 2 or 3 very long draw downs over 200 spins but even with that the debt never got lower than \$112.  After 200 spins, up \$50.

Yes, it's definitely a grind.  Up 10 units (\$5×10).  That's only 1 unit per 20 spins.  But I think that's what it takes to have a consistant winning bet (holy grail)  :)
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: jerome26b on January 10, 2017, 08:57:22 AM
Hello,

i'm still working as well now, taking time to make simulations on my 4000 real live spin; it's a lot of work and takes many hours when having a new idea and starting again with some new considerations but it's the way to go, wrking working, when i have a new idea i try to analyze it and sometimes even give a try even if it's counter-intuitive or quite crazy and non sense mathematically speaking. It's very promising i would say, like MrTalos said the HG came note directly but in piesces, it gives me this feeling right now, sometimes i feel i'm close and suddenly when a bad streak occurs i have to reconsider everything and find another direction at a moment. I have the basis, the squeleton of the system but not yet the best progression and the best pattern, that's one of the difficulties as well having a pattern to follow strictly to test any system seriously.
Sometimes i'm tempted to add a kind of bet selection to the scheme but i'm trying to avoid that knowing no bet selection system was really working in the long term, it's another controversial topic but MrTalos was doing his HG in that direction and i was searching in that direction either from the beginning.
You have to find the good amount of numbers to bet every spin, you have to know when you have to reduce the numbers to bet to have a recoverable situation. For sure if you bet too low amount you will never, if you bet too much you will never as well; there's a kind of balance to find.

kind regards,

Jérôme
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: juice on January 10, 2017, 07:58:53 PM
Just a thought for you busy math guys (Jerome and Reyth).
The entire start to finish of this topic has now been read by many and I finally read every word, more than once, and there is some high level stuff, that I can not exactly follow when it come right down to your mathematical abilities. However, I continue to look at his clues, because that is the only way for me to try and contribute, and I see he wants us to think in a counter intuitive way and approach in a philosophical direction first...
So just a couple of things to consider......
1- Dr. T, said he needs to meet his ratios, i.e. 1:60, as soon as it is met game over(or something like that), but....I ask you, what defines a hit?, what actually does he mean?
My initial thoughts go directly to two things....
--- The weakness of the wheel, which I am not sure has been defined properly, although I see that you guys have a direction you are taking on that subject. I would look a little closer.
and...
--- a hit could be a beginning of a parlay(A SHORT ONE) that greatly reduces the recovery time and unit draw down and is combined with the divisor moving forward and in reverse.
I see no need to go any further than playing the dozens, singularly and combined, and the e.c.'s of high / low.
CONSIDER THIS....
--Once you eliminate chop( I call it the stagger) h,l,h,l,h,l,.... you are left with events that MUST occur, i.e., ....
hhl, or hhhl, or, hhhhl, hhhhhhlhhllllllhhhlllllllhlhlhlhhhhhh, you get the drift........
The wheel can not and could not avoid this if it wanted to.
Same goes for the dozen repeaters.
following the last would put you in every run longer than 2 repeats and 3's, 4's and 5's are not at all rare in distribution(short term) in fact they are absolutely necessary for the game to exist. you can count on this happening as sure as the sun will rise.
I can not be sure this direction will fit your models that the math conforms to, but I think with your abilities, you can do a few things........
come up with a way to stop loss your winning steak, i.e., take some units back off of the parlay, for the times that it does not go past the three press, and use the payouts combined with the divisor to
"fan the flames" so to speak with the power of the press!
Last thought for now.....He plays lots of numbers, and then fewer, then more, then changes, and jumps around with his "very, tight, progression". yadda, yadda,yadda.....
But, 228 numbers in ten spins, fits too nicely into the First two e.c. attempts, and a combo of dozens there after............hope this adds some new brain food to this topic, even if it crashes and burns.

Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: jerome26b on January 10, 2017, 10:35:39 PM
Hello,

Juice I have to say you are thinking in the same direction as me in fact. To be honest I think now after all my testings I've got a very strong system. sure it's not exactly the drTalos one. but in 1000 spins only 2 times I had to bet more than 100 units, I mean the balance not the bet. And it was all the time under 300 easily. The most of the time I never had to put more than 30-50 in balance and there's some flows of nearly 100 spins just grinding ...
For the weakness I have my own idea now but again about what you said you're thinking in my direction... and i think the counter intuitive way can be linked with that assertion. I will not reveal anything now cause it's the deal and i worked and thought so much and hard last 6 months to elaborate a system that I want to protect it if it's really working. What I will just say it's that it respects quite all drTalos canons I would say 95 %. the one that was my basis is the ratio that I never lost in my way to the system. Now I will try the system with more spins and with other patterns (i got other ideas about making it more effective). I'm sure the system is not complete, I'm not happy with the 2 times my system went below 100 units and the recovery, I would like to maintain my balance even lower at that moment. I can put some boundaries for that but it means my recovery will be slower. I need more experience and more spins to decide a good direction about these rare events. And it's not over I wrote many ideas in my way that can be tested.
So at the end I would like to say that MrTalos gave me the motivation to work beyond my limits on the roulette game to find something. I'm sur if i have a wining system it will be different than his system (but probably close in some ways). And I want to improve it as well.
the system I've now is achieving 0.40-0.50 units by spin (in a 1000 spins sample)

Keep working

Jerome.
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: juice on January 10, 2017, 11:18:55 PM
good going Jerome! keep up the good work! I hope you find a SUPER TALOS as a result of your effort.
I have my own "grail", that I use and it is nothing like this, but we can't shut down the minds' thirst for the search of a better mouse trap.
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: jerome26b on January 13, 2017, 08:39:47 PM
I don't yet have the definitive system, I'm still trying to improve it. It needs some perfection but its adaptive anyway. Every time I'm working on it now it's to get improvement. I took a good decision at a moment to go yes to a 'quite counter intuitive path' and it seems to work better. Still some work to do but every day I'm closer to my own holy for sure

Jerome
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: jerome26b on January 14, 2017, 04:17:19 PM
good going Jerome! keep up the good work! I hope you find a SUPER TALOS as a result of your effort.
I have my own "grail", that I use and it is nothing like this, but we can't shut down the minds' thirst for the search of a better mouse trap.

Thanks it's very very positive right now, in fact i made few simulation with slighty changing the selection, i was not satisfied cause in 2000 spins it went too high or can eventually bust. Anyway i can't accept like DrTalos a system that can put me more than one thousand unit. Unexpectedly and i have to be honnest i was not very confident but i tried something else and it passed 2000 spins so easily... going very rarely beyond -100 total balance. In fact it doesn't make more sense at this moment (it's maybe the counter intuitive way MrTalos was talking about) but it seems to work very well. The only problem is the fact it can be quite slow sometimes, i already put some "rules" or boudaries in place to speed up the game sometimes, in fact i tried both simulations and at this moment it seems win at the end the same way. I'm just worried my faster track can put my balance in a difficult position at a moment (i don't had this situation yet).
My system respect the canon 31 & 32 by the way... and all other canons in fact (i have to parse them one by one to double check, but if the system i elaborates is working it's not very important at the end) So i can believe than i have maybe now a very near system as MrTalos one or maybe another one but based on his clues... i would be amazed if it's this option in fact, or more an adapation.
I've still to continue my spin list to confirm and to elaborate a definitive plan (to fasten or not the game in some situation or keep the safest but more slow way).
Another very big advantage about my nearly definitive system now is the fact it's very easy to play, no difficult computation to bring to the table, some basic mental calculus is enough, and it's just needed in the rare situation when the game is very long, it's something i was scared about having to calculate always some ratios and the fact it could be a nightmare to play for real... What i really like now is the fact it seems very safe and yes i can imagine it can go easily to 260 spins without busting.
It's just question of few days now to have a first "draft" and to start an attempt in real money.
I don't want to be overexcited right now (i had this kind of situation in the past but never extensively testing like this anyway), and after all these months of guessing, working, trying to find new directions it would be a big and satisfying now to collect some additional income as a reward ;-)
I don't know if some others found their way to their own "DrTalos" system but i will encourage to maybe stop guessing and start working in their own way, it's something i did for ten days now and i'm very satisfied about what i found already.

Jérôme
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: juice on January 14, 2017, 08:09:20 PM
Well that's great news Jerome! I hope it brings you many years of income. I think what matters most to all players is their core belief In their own methods. No one, other than yourself, really needs to believe!   In the sage words by Napoleon Hill "what you can conceive and believe  you can  achieve", Lies the secret to all personal success! Please keep us in the loop.  I'm sure it's not just me that's rooting for you.
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: jerome26b on January 14, 2017, 08:49:33 PM
Well that's great news Jerome! I hope it brings you many years of income. I think what matters most to all players is their core belief In their own methods. No one, other than yourself, really needs to believe!   In the sage words by Napoleon Hill "what you can conceive and believe  you can  achieve", Lies the secret to all personal success! Please keep us in the loop.  I'm sure it's not just me that's rooting for you.
thanks i really like your positive and motivating attitude. i greatly appreciate that.

all the best

jerome
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: jerome26b on January 18, 2017, 08:40:27 PM
Hello,

Last days were amazing I was just not satisfied with the system I was working on, in fact i had 2 times long recovery in my 4000 spin sample and i reconsider completely the whole design. So last days I was completely focus finding new ideas and one completely opposite to the system I was elaborating. It's becoming crazy for my mind but at the same time i find a kind of pleasure exploring all the possibilities and the limits of imagination and the problem arise sometimes I have too many ideas coming and I can't stay focus only one. Sometimes I'm thinking MrTalos should smile in his corner thinking about that. I'm pursuing my profiler searching deeply and more focus than never. At the end I have to got something, I'm convinced ... it's funny game

Jerome
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: jerome26b on January 18, 2017, 08:41:59 PM
I've an important question in your system MrTalos free to you to reply or not, does the 3rd spin if a hit makes you a winner ? I don't think so in my opinion. And when you say you 're close to profit your system allow you to play less amount of numbers but in another way when you are so close to profit you don't want to fasten the game and play more numbers to be in plus quicker ? Its something I don't understand in your logic in fact

Jerome
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: chuckpapa on January 22, 2017, 06:42:33 PM
Hey Jerome out of curiosity - how are you testing your methods? Computer simulation mixed with real play?
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: jerome26b on January 23, 2017, 08:49:37 AM
Hello,

I've a 4000 spin sample that I recorded from live immersive roulette, its very useful

Jerome
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: jerome26b on January 24, 2017, 08:36:28 PM
after some testings i figured out the system i'm working on is producing between 0.4/0.5 unit a spin. if i remember well mrtalos was achieving 0.3 on average. i play european roulette probably that's make this kind of difference, and the system as well. the system is not yet fully designed , it's already powerful but i'm still adapting things. the main work i did last days is working on the way to use the weakness of the wheel to achieve a better progression. mrtalos is true that you need to get some ideas to elaborate the progression. some ideas were deducted from my various testing using different methods. i was focusing on the best way to keep my balance lowest as possible and i used my testing to take some conclusions that lead to a new progression. the system i got was working pretty well but i had 2 times in 4000 spins a very long recovery that i didn't like and i worked to solved that problem.

jerome.
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: juice on January 25, 2017, 05:02:16 AM
Thanks for the update, Jerome. keep the hammer down!
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: jerome26b on January 31, 2017, 11:54:01 PM
Hello,

So not yet an answer from MrTalos about his maybe only one contradiction about his system I put in evidence and without answering. He gave some clues he said we have to take them as true and he's not able to give clear answer about one of my question about things he exposed many times. I've my own opinion now about him and I'm quite sure now this guy is a dreamer or a lost mind that didn't achieved what he wants. I know this forum is full of believers and some will believe to the grave but I'm not like that I'm a scientist and rational mind and i need some proof at a moment.
So MrTalos please answer to the dilemma about your system I exposed to you, not complicated find my last posts but I will resume and précise to be sure you will not surround again the topic :

You said your system will win with a ratio of 1:60, it happens you have to wait 180 numbers to have your first hit then 3 hits your are in profit. So you have to be in profit in the next 60 numbers played so having 3 hits playing these 60 numbers in any combination. But you are playing many many numbers you said. I still need a clarify about that point otherwise your whole story will go to the fallacy for me.

let be clear i don't want you to give more clues about your system just clarify the contradiction of what you said or admit you gave some wrong information but you didn't and said again we have to consider all that you said to be true.

to be honnest i don't believe anymore any kind of progression even with divisor and ratio can escape a bad streak of the wheel (i think reyth prove it with all his computations and i did many more using many combinations of chances reducing/raising numbers after hit/no hit, at a moment in every scenario a bad streak will kill my progression even if i'm keeping the balance the lowest as possible in any scenario) so if you have a real working system there should be something else than just the progression. you refute to admit that you do a kind of bet selection but you use a pattern anyway. i have achieved not so bad systems based on your clues thanks for that but every of them will encounter a bad streak at a moment that will ask for a stop loss limit. so progression alone can be a winner ? i don't believe it anymore to be honnest... you must have a selection or strategy behind to make it into a winner. i know you talked about the idea and the counter intuitive way so it's not just progression there's a strategy and the progression is helping your strategy to be more effective. do you admit that ?

Its my point

Jerome
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: DrTalos on February 01, 2017, 04:12:14 PM
First of all, believe it or not I do not spend much time on the net, and reading this forum is not in my priorities. Once in a while I check, and when there is a discussion I am interested I check more often, otherwise I can stay weeks and months without reading it, so I am sorry to not be able to catch your question in the exact moment you posted, my bad...

Second, I don't understand your question completely. In the first spin it is a little easier be a winner, and as the game goes I chase my ratio (not exactly what I said, because this is something that is different of my way of thinking, but to let you understand it). I will not let you know how many numbers I play, though. You have to find out by yourself. And I don't care a bit if you do not believe my whole story. Stop pointing that finger to me. If you believe is fine, if you don't is fine as well, just stop assume I care what you think about me.

An honest question will receive an honest answer. As I said many times, you will not find mine because your approach has no creativity, still you can find your own way, and I will be glad of it, even without any compensation from you or anybody else (how could you, even wishing so? I gave no personal information and no one knows me here).
There's is no selection, let me say one more time: there is no selection. If a reverse my selection the system must work exactly the same, otherwise is just "luck". Everything can happen in the roulette table: the same number out 8 times in a row (has been recorded), or a dozen without hits for more than 46 spins. I don't believe in selection of any sort, never worked out for anybody. I refuse to admit that I am using a selection because is not true!

Please rephrase your question if I didn't get the meaning of it. And, if I may ask, be more polite.

Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: scepticus on February 01, 2017, 04:47:36 PM
Your method must be based on " something" Dr Talos  and if you have not chosen that "something" what is your method based on ? You may change that something - a dozen,column, street etc. but it is still selected. It cannot be based on "nothing" .
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: Reyth on February 01, 2017, 04:50:20 PM
Just to help the conversation along and quickly get you up to speed, his system is based on the spins:numbers covered ratio.

His main operational principle is to bet as many numbers as possible for the least amount of money.

His entire focus is on two things:

1) How to keep the costs down as low as possible
2) How to achieve a win (positive balance) when the ratio becomes 1:60 (2:120, 3:180 etc).
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: jerome26b on February 01, 2017, 05:22:12 PM
Just to help the conversation along and quickly get you up to speed, his system is based on the spins:numbers covered ratio.

His main operational principle is to bet as many numbers as possible for the least amount of money.

His entire focus is on two things:

1) How to keep the costs down as low as possible
2) How to achieve a win (positive balance) when the ratio becomes 1:60 (2:120, 3:180 etc).
Maybe Rethink but it's not giving a winning method there should be something else. Did you find a winning method based only on that ? I can tell you that I did enough simulation on real spins and it bust at a moment even if it can pass 1000 spins at a moment the inevitable will happen like always ...
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: jerome26b on February 01, 2017, 05:24:05 PM
Your method must be based on " something" Dr Talos  and if you have not chosen that "something" what is your method based on ? You may change that something - a dozen,column, street etc. but it is still selected. It cannot be based on "nothing" .
its exactly what I think even selecting less or more numbers is a bet selection or strategy maybe.
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: jerome26b on February 01, 2017, 07:09:39 PM
MRTalos,

Sorry if you felt some offense I had the feeling you avoided my question in any way and i get frustrated that maybe your were playing a kind of game with non sense stuff that you exposed the basics.
Maybe you don't want to reply clearly cause it can give an important aspect about your system that you don't want to express. So if it's that you can just tell that you don't want to give more explanation. So I repeat my question about at least two of your statement (but for the same logic) :
You said sometimes it can get 180 numbers before you get your first hit, and you said in the following 15 spins with 3 more hits you get the profit.
In your q&a you said sometimes you can have the first hit after 228 numbers played and then if you get 4 hits shortly or 5 little bit longer you will be in profit.
Like that I have no problem but when I recoup with your ratio 1/60 that will give you the profit I can't imagine how you can respect the ratio (you said you're never playing few numbers)
- so in the first situation let's say you got your first hit after 180 numbers played so at this moment your ratio will be 1:180. So if your system respect the 1/60 ratio to be in profit it involves necessary that you have the 3 hits needed in the next 60 numbers played so you will be let's say the upper extreme 4:240 so 1/60 profit.
- in the second scenario it's the same story if you need 4 hits quickly you need to catch these four hits before 300 numbers played so 4 hits in let's take the exemple 1:228 - 5:300 profit so 4 hits in 72 numbers played.
So i was considering ok so it must mean that you play very few numbers after hitting I said 4 numbers but it can be 6 as well. But you refute that saying your system allow you to play more considerable amount of numbers. So if you play more numbers you will not be able to catch the profit after 3 spins in the first scenario cause the second number of the ratio will grow too fast and you will need more hits to recover.
So in either scenario either you play quite few numbers or you need more hits otherwise it's mathematically impossible to achivee the ratio you pretend.

Maybe the problem is because  i don't think counter intuitive and not in an artistic way ... sorry its not a sarcasm.

Jerome.
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: Reyth on February 01, 2017, 07:25:03 PM
If its not 6 (DS), it has to be:

8 DS + Split
9 DS + Street

12 DZ
14 DZ + Split
15 DZ + Street

18 EC

...etc. out to 24.

He already said he uses "bet groups" because he "can bet more numbers".
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: jerome26b on February 01, 2017, 07:43:57 PM
If its not 6 (DS), it has to be:

8 DS + Split
9 DS + Street

12 DZ
14 DZ + Split
15 DZ + Street

18 EC

...etc. out to 24.

He already said he uses "bet groups" because he "can bet more numbers".
I can admit Reyth but it's not going in the scenario ...
and i doubt the method you explosed will work you already tried it ?
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: Reyth on February 01, 2017, 07:58:27 PM
I am pretty sure the raw method will die to the session from heck like 0:300 or its successive equivalent.

After I mentioned about "stalling the ratio" by playing less numbers so that the bet won't be too high when it must win for the 1:60, Talos said that "I had some nice ideas".

Maybe if the bet is too high, he pulls a stalling move and bets only a DS or DZ until he hits or things cool down?

So maybe we use a 6 Divisor and when the bet amount is too large, just stall until we can bring it down again?
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: jerome26b on February 01, 2017, 09:02:09 PM
I am pretty sure the raw method will die to the session from heck like 0:300 or its successive equivalent.

After I mentioned about "stalling the ratio" by playing less numbers so that the bet won't be too high when it must win for the 1:60, Talos said that "I had some nice ideas".

Maybe if the bet is too high, he pulls a stalling move and bets only a DS or DZ until he hits or things cool down?

So maybe we use a 6 Divisor and when the bet amount is too large, just stall until we can bring it down again?

Reyth the problem is not only if we are 0:300. it's the variance. in my simulations with real spins you can be 0:300 and recover quickly. and you can be quite near for profit with a good start but have a very very long or impossible recovery. it's always the same problem if we are going too far and play less numbers by selecting a dozen or a ds this selection can miss if you are 'unlucky' and mr talos said he never count on luck, never. so if you don't count on luck you have to bet a minimum amount of numbers or have a strategy to be able to manage the whole recovery. Playing less numbers at a time and so less money expose you less to the HE than playing on one spin the whole amount. it's proven mathematically. so maybe he found something around this thematic. i'm quite sur the divisor is not the only part or the core of his system if there is one. he insisted again on the creative part of his system after the philosophic way, the counter intuitive idea, the bizzare progression etc so there's something special that we are not catching cause we are approaching the game in a too conservative way. in another way he designed his system based on an existing one that he perfected so maybe searching some unusual systems can give us some piesces of answer for the basis but it's a difficult task.

jerome.
Title: MrPerfect.
Post by: MrPerfect. on February 01, 2017, 09:49:35 PM
Trying to call common cense here. Ratio of 1:60 is almost worst situation player can face. It translates to " win almost never". No progression,  no stalking plan will overcome it. Case is doomed, and guy definitely tolks gibberish. Im surprised someone put so much work to try and decifer it, learning basic probability require much less effort.
Resuming: no clear explanation, no graphs, no proof,  no defined method, tolk wich doesn't add up.
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: scepticus on February 02, 2017, 12:47:43 AM
I agree Mr. Perfect that it is largely a waste of time trying to decipher Dr Talos method.
A lack of information. methinks.
I agree with him ,  though, when he says " Why should I tell my winning system when it took me years to find. And you want it for free ? "
I think his 1: 60 ratio is 60 numbers bet not 1 in 60 spins . I agree with you here that if it means spins then it  is - in all probability - highly unlikely.  If he bets , say , 24 numbers each time then a 1 in 3 might suffice. I don't think that is what he actually bets because he mentions that betting a single number might win.
His wins of 1 and 9 for a bankroll of even 450 does not impress me though I am pleased that he does make a profit. So far as I am concerned ANY profit is acceptable but risking even 450 is a no-no for me.
Perhaps a task for Duncan who has recently solved   Mr. Charles' conundrum?
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: jerome26b on February 02, 2017, 11:08:25 AM
For sure he confirmed he's not using selection at all so the numbers or i would say group of numbers he's playing can be selected spin after spin completely random it can follow the last, stay fixed or random. i admit i like this idea of no selection cause it's the basis now about systems i like. but everybody knows a system like that will not work with usual betting scheme or progression. In the case of DrTalos there's both the progression sure but he probably elaborated his progression around his main creative philosophical idea he's talking about and that we will never catch cause we are thinking old fashion style. So we have a guy that can play a total random selection of numbers dictated by his system and he defeat all the mathematic laws of probabilities. if it's really the case Mrtalos i think you deserve the nobel price of roulette ! i'm kidding by the way.

cheers

Jerome.
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: scepticus on February 02, 2017, 03:38:23 PM
I think it is illogical to claim that he doesn't use a Bet Selection .
Different Bet Selections have different odds.  Dozens and Columns are, roughly, 2/1 - Streets 11/1 for example. How can you use a  " one size fits all " progression  to bets with different odds  ? Yet he changes his " targets "  to ensure a profit. I think he should explain why he thinks he doesn't use a Bet Selection.
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: jerome26b on February 02, 2017, 05:05:08 PM
I think it is illogical to claim that he doesn't use a Bet Selection .
Different Bet Selections have different odds.  Dozens and Columns are, roughly, 2/1 - Streets 11/1 for example. How can you use a  " one size fits all " progression  to bets with different odds  ? Yet he changes his " targets "  to ensure a profit. I think he should explain why he thinks he doesn't use a Bet Selection.
mrtalos has his own perception about many things i believe and maybe all the clues he gave have to be interpretated in a certain way. Since he prentend to be creative and so on i will not surprise we don't have to take all what he said on the first interpretation but think differently.
about selection he's not doing bet selection cause for him selection is to be stucked on a certain pattern or numbers but he doesn't need that it can change like he decided every spin. so the only 'selection'if you call it like that is the fact he has to respect the total numbers to play every spin in the way his system his asking for but he can select any. if he has to play a dozen or a ds or both he can choose any one he wants. that's his point and ok i can understand it's not really selection in that case cause you don't have to take into account the past spin history and to be stucked to a decision if every work.
i believe as well that his way of talking about hit can be interpreted as well. we don't even now if he's betting every spin ? who know maybe he introduced a kind of virtual bet in his system. personally i never believe about that cause for me the virtual betting is a gambler fallacy but who knows... everything is possible but for sure there's a weird things around his system.

jerome
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: Reyth on February 02, 2017, 06:22:46 PM
The ratio of 1:60 is the stabilizing factor.  How much he bets is based on that; i.e. whatever he bets on he needs to be at profit when the 1:60 ratio hits.
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: scepticus on February 02, 2017, 08:58:39 PM
I think it is illogical to claim that he doesn't use a Bet Selection .
Different Bet Selections have different odds.  Dozens and Columns are, roughly, 2/1 - Streets 11/1 for example. How can you use a  " one size fits all " progression  to bets with different odds  ? Yet he changes his " targets "  to ensure a profit. I think he should explain why he thinks he doesn't use a Bet Selection.
mrtalos has his own perception about many things i believe and maybe all the clues he gave have to be interpretated in a certain way. Since he prentend to be creative and so on i will not surprise we don't have to take all what he said on the first interpretation but think differently.
about selection he's not doing bet selection cause for him selection is to be stucked on a certain pattern or numbers but he doesn't need that it can change like he decided every spin. so the only 'selection'if you call it like that is the fact he has to respect the total numbers to play every spin in the way his system his asking for but he can select any. if he has to play a dozen or a ds or both he can choose any one he wants. that's his point and ok i can understand it's not really selection in that case cause you don't have to take into account the past spin history and to be stucked to a decision if every work.
i believe as well that his way of talking about hit can be interpreted as well. we don't even now if he's betting every spin ? who know maybe he introduced a kind of virtual bet in his system. personally i never believe about that cause for me the virtual betting is a gambler fallacy but who knows... everything is possible but for sure there's a weird things around his system.

jerome

I don't agree Jerome
.A Bet Selection need not  be constant . It can move to whatever the Bettor decides  .
He tries to recover any loss so I would guess that his first bet would be an Even-Money shot .This would give him  his claimed 1 unit win. If this is lost he then chooses a higher odds bet -  say a dozen .If this wins he has his 1 unit win. If this loses it is anyone's guess where he goes next.
Or he could even stick for a few spins at his Even Money shot and use a slight progression . We will never know because, understandably, he won't tell us.
Whatever he does he must CHOOSE what to bet and that choice is his Selection - his Bet Selection.
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: Reyth on February 02, 2017, 09:51:07 PM
You can't play roulette without betting and that obviously is not his point.  His point is that it doesn't matter WHICH numbers he plays; he wins WITH ANY AND ALL NUMBERS.  That's his point.

He is only concerned with betting as many numbers as possible while keeping the costs as low as possible.  He has discovered a secret technique to do this.
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: scepticus on February 03, 2017, 12:56:08 AM
How can that be  Reyth ?
If that were so he would NEVER lose so no need to chase loses .
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: juice on February 03, 2017, 01:48:28 AM
glad to see this topic gaining some new traction!  look folks, we are all bright players here, and all seem to share some direction in our approach to the game. I do it this way, you do it that way, he says this, they say that, blah, blah, blah......
the whole thing is being over engineered and I am enjoying the creativity, but come on.....
fact #1- he absolutely has a bet selection, he may not conform to our "definition" of the term but he has fully divulged that his first two(2) moves are on one of the e.c.'s, 1-18 or 19-36, and that is a selection. SCEPTICUS IS CORRECT!! talos also has stated that he follows a pattern of betting, to keep himself on track, although, it is NOT CRITICAL, HE NON THE LESS ACKNOWLEDGES HE HAS AWARNESS OF HIS POSITIONS. and of coarse he does, duuuuhhh...

fact #2- dr. talos fully admits, that he could NEVER, deal with a method that would allow the bet to get large. AND THERE YOU HAVE IT!!, he just gave us the most important piece of the puzzle.
THE ONLY WAY TO KEEP THE BET LOW....AND BE ABLE TO "RECOVER" HIS PAST LOSSES TO A "PLUS 1 BALANCE", IS TO EMPLOY A PARLAY! unless there is a "secret sauce", IN THE GAME, that only he knows about that everyone else on this forum does not, AND I FIND THAT TO BE IMPOSSIBLE. look at it this way.....on this site alone, exists some of the BRIGHTEST AND MOST TALENTED MATH GUYS THAT I HAVE EVER SEEN. they have figured out all his possible moves and run them through their magic programs and have spit out some really great ideas, right? but even they will admit they are unsatisfied with a little bit of this and that, driving themselves to go even further, but, it can NOT be that deep. the concentration level that would be necessary to implement their ideas would be too involved, and, MORE IMPORTANTLY, the "ORDER", in which the wins would need to come, in conjunction with the bet selection and odds pay out, would be, to say the very least, TEDIUS! and on airball, with less than a minute between spins, no way~, so at some point he has got to PRESS WITH CASINO MONEY, ALSO VERY COUNTER INTUITIVE, IF ALL YOU ARE TRYING TO DO IS GET BACK TO A LEVEL BANK, + 1 UNIT... there is no other way, when you factor in the watered down payouts that would be coming back to you after you apply the math ratio he has stated he needs to achieve.
NOW, the question is, how many times, and at what level, does he need to parlay?? that is something for the math guys to concentrate on, coupled with a divisor along the way to stay as flat as possible.

fact #3- he never plays straight up numbers, so we all know he has factored in the house edge to his math. why is this important?? because we have all found a way to make the zeros pay for themselves and in the long term pay us!! no???!! if you have not found a way to overcome paying the vig, then you best move on to another game with a considerably lower house edge.~ but last I checked the zeros are straight up positions.

fact #4- with the amount of experience on this site, we all know many, and many know all the trick plays!!! by definition, I am talking about the high percentage plays that you can attempt based on the conditions, the chip placements, the total coverage of the layout, etc. these are plays that work more times than not for a return on your money, but played too often with suck you dry.
example: 6 units each on columns 1&2 and 5 units spread covering the 36&3 straight up and the splits of 9/12, 18/21, 27/30. leaving the black numbers in column 3 and the zeros to bone you. but hedged correctly and a little more salt on that bet and you can turn it into profit. BUT THE JUICE AIN'T WORTH THE SQEEZE, RIGHT??
SOOOO...... what makes you think that there is MAGIC chip placement, with odds payout, that can hit a win rate of 100% recovery?? there is no such bet, so it has got to boil down to money management and THE ONLY FLAW THE WHEEL HAS.....which is, it can NOT, return a #39 or #42, or #57, when the ball lands. it can NEVER, break out of the normal results, EVEN WHEN IN SEVERE VARIANCE!
why is this so important?? because no matter what YOUR style of play is....you know when something is out of whack!!
-AP PLAYERS SEE WHAT THEY NEED TO~
-MATH GUYS SEE WHAT THEY NEED TO~
-TRICK PLAYERS SEE WHAT THEY NEED TO~
-SYSTEM PLAYERS SEE WHAT THEY NEED TO~
THESE THINGS WE SEE, ARE THE THINGS THAT GIVE US ALL THE CONFIDENCE NEEDED TO EMPLOY OUR OWN PARTICULAR STATAGIES!!
AND IT IS MY BELIEF THAT DR. TALOS HAS SEEN / WITNESSED A COMMON CONDITION THAT THE WHEEL PRODUCES REGULARLY ENOUGH, EVEN THROUGH TIMES OF EXTREME VARIANCE, THAT WILL CLEAR HIS DEBT AND PRODUCE A PROFIT. HE HAS JUST BEEN FORTUNATE ENOUGH TO BE ABLE TO APPLY A SMOOTH SCALABLE PROGRESSION, AND LETS THE GAME COME TO HIM~. AFTER ALL, ISN'T THAT WHAT WE ALL DO?? OR TRY TO DO?

I LEAVE YOU WITH THIS ........"STRATEGY", LEARN THE DEFINITION AND REMIND YOURSELF OF IT'S MEANING DAILY WHILE PLAYING.....

the word "strategy" came to denote "a comprehensive way to try to pursue political ends, including the threat or actual use of force, in a dialectic of wills" in a military conflict, in which both adversaries interact.[2]

Strategy is important because the resources available to achieve these goals are usually limited. Strategy generally involves setting goals, determining actions to achieve the goals, and mobilizing resources to execute the actions. A strategy describes how the ends (goals) will be achieved by the means (resources). This is generally tasked with determining strategy. Strategy can be intended or can emerge as a pattern of activity as the organization adapts to its environment or competes. It involves activities such as strategic planning and strategic thinking.[3]

Henry Mintzberg from McGill University defined strategy as a pattern in a stream of decisions to contrast with a view of strategy as planning,[4] while Max McKeown (2011) argues that "strategy is about shaping the future" and is the human attempt to get to "desirable ends with available means". Dr. Vladimir Kvint defines strategy as "a system of finding, formulating, and developing a doctrine that will ensure long-term success if followed faithfully."[5]

AND OH, A BIG SHOUT OUT TO JEROME, WHO HAS BEEN GRINDING FOR MONTHS, YOU'LL GET THERE BUD, I BELIEVE IT IN MY HEART!!
~~~~AND ONE MORE THING TALOS HAS STATED.......HE FULLY ADMITS THAT HIS SYTEM WILL FAIL EVENTUALLY, ALTHOUGH IT HAS NOT DONE SO YET, BUT WHEN IT DOES, HE EXPECTS IT TO BE SO FAR AHEAD THAT IT WILL HAVE LITTLE TO NO IMPACT ON HIS BANK ROLL!!  SO DON'T BEAT YOURSELVES UP TOO BADLY WITH TESTING RESULTS!!

MAY THE LAST BET YOU PLACE TODAY, BE THE SMALLEST!  BEST REGARDS, JUICE~
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: Reyth on February 03, 2017, 02:38:13 PM
How can that be  Reyth ?
If that were so he would NEVER lose so no need to chase loses .

Obviously it is impossible to win on every spin and that is clearly not his point.  He still has to run numbers through the ratio.  His point is that no matter WHICH numbers he plays (all of them will produce the same result) he will be at profit when the 1:60 ratio occurs.
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: jerome26b on February 03, 2017, 07:34:33 PM
Juice,

it's an idea i was thinking already , the parlay bet somewhere in his system, but finally i didn't tested yet cause you raised the most important question : at which moment do the parlay ?
But now that i tried all options with progression and normal bet chances selections that are going to nowhere it's my next investigation :

- Parlay bet.
- Differential betting mixing chances.

Obviously he must play many numbers always, there's just a dilemma that i have difficult to figure out and it's in the question i asked him; i never had clear answer already so i suppose inside this question there's something important in the key of his system and i'm conviced it's the same as the dilemma of CANON 31 & 32.
I will investigate as well on the fact that maybe he can represent hits as hitting the chances he's betting and if he's betting several chances at the same spin maybe we can consider 2 hits or 3 hits in a context of only one spin ; example hitting the DZ+ hitting the DS + hitting the street... 3 hits in one spin. This option can maybe explain the dilemma ...

more work to follow, and never giving up.

Jérôme
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: scepticus on February 03, 2017, 09:04:13 PM
How can that be  Reyth ?
If that were so he would NEVER lose so no need to chase loses .

Obviously it is impossible to win on every spin and that is clearly not his point.  He still has to run numbers through the ratio.  His point is that no matter WHICH numbers he plays (all of them will produce the same result) he will be at profit when the 1:60 ratio occurs.

Reyth  Of course it is not his point .
I was referring to your claim that he wins with any numbers. You still fail to understand the point I am making here - that he bets an EC- a Doz - whatever .So he must choose an EC or dozen- whatever mustn't he ? Whatever he chooses is his choice - his selection.
Do you know what his 1:60 ratio is ? 60 spins? 60 numbers ?
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: scepticus on February 03, 2017, 09:08:09 PM
Jerome
Full marks for tenacity but I think you are on a hopeless quest. Dr Talos has made it clear that he won't tell what his method is so even if you did find it he is unlikely to say so.
Good  Luck  .  I think you will need it.
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: jerome26b on February 03, 2017, 09:19:25 PM
Scepticus,

to be honnest i don't care to grab exactly his method, if i can find another one in the process it's even better. I worked with the elements he gave and i already had some good elements to work and it's never lost for experience. I worked on progressions, on some selections, ratios and so on.
I don't want as well to find the system that will never loose. If i have to choose i prefer a system that win 600 units in 1000 spin with a failure 2 times with a stop loss at 100 units than a system that is never loosing and gaining 200 units in 1000 spins... for me the HG is not necessary the system that is never loosing but the system that will give me a repetitive and quite stable positive gain with time.

Jérôme
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: DrTalos on February 04, 2017, 03:12:28 PM
Jerome, one of the problem you have is very inside the Western way to think, that is always /or, while the Eastern way is often /and. That is because you assumed that a sentence deny all other than itself.
When I say that I need 3 hits in the next 15 spins, you read it like "I need to have exactly three hits in the next 15 spins". This is because your mind is bent in the Western way that affirming something means deny the opposite. I said, instead "In the next 15 spins, playing a large amount of number, I just need three hits at the worst scenario, so I am confident to get those. Sure, if I hit in the next spin, the game is over, but if I don't I have 14 more spins. I can get it at the second, and then I reach the target, or if don't I will have 13 more spins, and sometimes one hit will not get me to the end of the game but it will reduce my balance so it will give me 12 more spins to grab two more hits, or one if I get it right away". Sorry for the bad sentencing.
This is what I mean for /and approach.
If my first hit came after 180 numbers played (roughly the seventh spin), then the very next spin can be the last one of this game. I can wait though, because I have 15 more spin with a very low bankroll to manage, so I am calm and quiet. I don't want to be accurate on this part because I don't want to reveal too much, but I think you get the idea.

By the way, no parlay and no virtual bets. And I will be very happy if someone find his own HG. I will be more than happy to confirm that you have found it, if you claim so or produce a proof of that. Envy is not one of my flaws.
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: scepticus on February 04, 2017, 04:27:40 PM
DR Talos
1) So your 1:60 is numbers bet  ?
2 ) If you confirm that Jerome has sussed your method then you are revealing your method when you have already stated that you would never reveal your method . Envy doesn't come into it . Logic does ?
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: jerome26b on February 04, 2017, 07:46:53 PM
If my first hit came after 180 numbers played (roughly the seventh spin), then the very next spin can be the last one of this game. I can wait though, because I have 15 more spin with a very low bankroll to manage, so I am calm and quiet.

Hello Mr Talos,
wow that one is a true revelation ! So this sentence means you don't really care completely about your 1/60 ratio that you were talking in many of your messages ?
1:180 first spin then whatever you play let's say for the example you play 12 numbers you will be 2:192, so 1:96 on average ratio. So you can win even if you catch 2 hits in 192 numbers played (or one for 96 numbers played); but you always pretend that you rely about your ratio and when you got one hit / 60 numbers played you're in profit. Anyway thanks for your answer it's a very valuable piesce of information ...
but there's still something UNEXPLAINABLE if you get your first hit at 180 numbers played (8th spin), to achieve your ratio of 1/60 it means necessarily that if you have to go until 3 hits in 15 more spins that these ones must be done in the following 60 numbers played; BUT now that you 're not really rely on this ratio of course it would not means anything at all and maybe you can be at 4:300 (which is 1/75) or even 4:350 and finishing the game under this ratio. So what i conclude about that is that your ratio 1:60 is not very accurate for the numbers of hits you need to achieve proffit but more a boundary you can't go lower. So ok i got the idea now about what you do and you clarified all things.

But there's right away a reaction what's happening in a fixed number of attempts in 15 spins if at the 15th spins you don't achieve your 3 hits ? how can you be sure to get them in a chance game ? i was always thinking that your game can extend beyond the limits depending when you get some hits and to manipulate the ratio playing more/less numbers with time.
(edit) yes sure it can extend cause you can have very long game that extend to 70 spins, so the end is not very fixed in a number of spin.

So at the end all make sense...

Now let's work on the last thing to solve about the numbers you play after your first hit, it's the missing piesce and the last thing i will work this week about your system.

Jérôme
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: DrTalos on February 08, 2017, 02:29:33 PM
I said several times that the ratio was my way to make more "mathematically speaking" comprehensible my system, but was not my way of thinking. Reyth was really into it, and I think was a very good way to approach the system. Still his, not mine.
I don't think Jerome or others will get my system, and if they get they will not tell me publicly, so I am sure I will not have to make it public. If they message me proving me they had the answer to my question, they have a working system (even without revealing it. I will understand if they are lying or not) I will be happy and proud, and I will cheer their success.

If I do not have the three hits, the game will continue, in a different way if I get 0 or 1 or 2 hits. It is quite hard imagine to have no hitting (happened once), more common the situation where my hits have been few spin aparts one another, so I had to wait for more hits in the next spins (at least 2, as you can easily understand). There is not a fixed limit of spins, but an adaptable configuration total numbers played/bankroll/amount wagered. The jellyfish image Reyth used is quite accurate. Consequentially hits make my system very easy to play, while a hit followed by more than 5/6 missing make it longer and a little more tricky. What happens usually (when the game doesn't end in the first spins) is a long streak of missing (not very long, but you get the idea) is usually followed by 2/3 consecutive hits, or in a very short time.

Another hint, a new CANON if you like it: I never played less than six numbers, but if a game will go over a certain point (let's say 100 spins) I could find myself in a situation where I play fewer numbers for some spins. Hypothetically, I could "forced" to play just one number.

Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: Reyth on February 08, 2017, 08:50:33 PM
Ya, I think he is giving us 1/2 of his calculation, the 1:60 ratio and the missing half is the max bet allowed based on the bankroll.

This MBA is what determines the bet selection because as the bet selection moves inward, the amount of chips required for the bet to stay within say, 6 bets of a win, shrinks.  This is why he says he could be forced to play a single number.

The thing is that the MBA ratio never gets to the point of him needing to play a single number (or less than a DS) because he keeps obtaining hits at a DS or better.

So clearly, its the progression that is winning for him because its the progression that determines the bet selection and the hidden formula he is not telling us is the MBA; if he told us that we would 100% have his system.

So, to exactly break down the whole betting scheme:

1) All bets placed must be within 6 hits of a win
2) All bets must win to a profit of +1 or better if that win will bring the hits:total numbers bet upon ratio to 1:60 or better
3) No bet amount may rise above X ratio to the bankroll loss amount (MBA)
3a) Make the bet selection that will allow the bet to be placed without exceeding the MBA; i.e. bet 1 DZ instead of an EC because of the increased payout and thus the decreased cost to be within the 6 win bet range

If we solve the MBA, we solve his system.

Does 1% of the bankroll work as a bet amount cap?

Roulette basically comes down to "450 numbers bet upon is about the most you will see in your lifetime without obtaining a hit".  Dr. Talos has found a way to consistently bet 450 numbers and spend no more than 1500 units doing so.
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: jerome26b on February 09, 2017, 06:40:38 PM
I said several times that the ratio was my way to make more "mathematically speaking" comprehensible my system, but was not my way of thinking. Reyth was really into it, and I think was a very good way to approach the system. Still his, not mine.
I don't think Jerome or others will get my system, and if they get they will not tell me publicly, so I am sure I will not have to make it public. If they message me proving me they had the answer to my question, they have a working system (even without revealing it. I will understand if they are lying or not) I will be happy and proud, and I will cheer their success.

If I do not have the three hits, the game will continue, in a different way if I get 0 or 1 or 2 hits. It is quite hard imagine to have no hitting (happened once), more common the situation where my hits have been few spin aparts one another, so I had to wait for more hits in the next spins (at least 2, as you can easily understand). There is not a fixed limit of spins, but an adaptable configuration total numbers played/bankroll/amount wagered. The jellyfish image Reyth used is quite accurate. Consequentially hits make my system very easy to play, while a hit followed by more than 5/6 missing make it longer and a little more tricky. What happens usually (when the game doesn't end in the first spins) is a long streak of missing (not very long, but you get the idea) is usually followed by 2/3 consecutive hits, or in a very short time.

Another hint, a new CANON if you like it: I never played less than six numbers, but if a game will go over a certain point (let's say 100 spins) I could find myself in a situation where I play fewer numbers for some spins. Hypothetically, I could "forced" to play just one number.
what i realize now is that long games in your system are very very rare event right ? And when they get long they can get long to death i mean going eventually to play only one numbers means automatically your system can broke at this moment but you talked about 100+ and your system was never to that limit so it's just hypothetical. So the 260 spin is just theoritical but not practical and more desperate at a moment. who wants to recoup one unit profit playing 260 spin for 4-5 hours ? could be important but maybe better solutions or just stop at a moment. To be honnest i would never rely on luck playing 3-2-1 numbers so i assumed long ago than 6 was the below limit. So if your system can go 1500 units but you never put more than 500 in years i would think it's better to place a stop loss at this point and keept the loss than risking 1500 playing more hours one/two numbers.
The fact you play minimus 6 is not revelation from me i knew that already for many many reasons and analysis and deductions and made a lot of testing on this basis already but maybe not to the right angle so it's something i will study a little bit more.
Furthermore even if you want your balance to stay the lowest as possible i think your progression has triggers and boundaries making you sometimes betting quite aggressively with the amount of 200-300 you put in the machine. It happens regularly you have to put more to continue playing your system or you can just be quiet one week playing only with 300 units ?
I imagine if you're so confident that you were able to achieve a very personal progression that is tricky to get. The weakness of the wheel that is mentionned is probably that, your bankroll and the amount of money you bet every spin an ideal "x" amoutn of numbers, or MBA like Reyth just introduced ;-)
can i ask you something about the process you found it cause many times you said you had just an idea and worked on it. This idea came like that or it was deduction of your experiences, analysis,frustration and so on ? i mean it's interesting in my point of view to have idea of the psychological process that lead somebody to find his own HG... never give up find energy in failing and succeeding at the end. It's sometimes more a personal and life story that an isolate discovery itself.
Anyway i promise you if i get or have feeling i've got your system i will write you a personal message with an obvious clue (you remember the fox and the grape ?) In all situation it will take time cause i would have to play it for thousands spins real to be sure it's working and at the end it could be different. But what's wrong if it's working i will be grateful anyway cause you pushed me to believe i can find one (maybe not yours) but one that i can succeed and the circle will be complete. In all cases i will not die if i don't find yours or any other grail if i don't have i have many other aspects in my life to be busy and happy and at the end if i don't succeed it will just stay as a good experience for me. (edit) one more thing i would like to add it's the idea of no bet selection that  i don't believe for some time it's the reason i was attracted by your initial posting cause i'm really in that focus. and i can see lot and lot people still carry about selecting and history of the past spin who made nonesence in my opinion.
My best regards and grateful about your attitude. you're a sage man Mrtalos and get all my respect.

sorry for the mutliple edit of my messages but it happens usually i'm not at home and write the replies on the phone that is quite unpractical to post long messages.

Have all a good day and success !
jerome
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: Reyth on February 09, 2017, 11:31:15 PM
There is a very simple way to test your results if you have the winning system.  Just play the same game but change the numbers you bet until there are no numbers you haven't used for each selection.  If you win every time, you have the winning system.
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: jerome26b on February 10, 2017, 08:57:02 AM
Reyth,

you're right but you know like me that he's not playing straights but groups so we have to select numbers as "pivotal" point for his system.

Jérôme
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: Reyth on February 10, 2017, 06:37:21 PM
Well the groups have less possibilities.  EC's have 5 additional numbers to use, DZ 2 additional numbers, etc.
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: DrTalos on February 13, 2017, 02:37:34 PM
Do you know how many times I collected all my papers and outcomes and systems and throw them in the garbage bin saying "I am done!"
Frustrations? A lot. Sometimes I hoped I found sometimes, and after three days I had to face a painful loss, economically and psychologically. But, one day, during a discussion about an unrelated matter, someone told me he faced a problem in a certain way. My mind immediately thought the same approach could be used in the game, and I started working.
That idea stayed the same, the way to use it changed continuously till the final form, that I reached few years ago.
I don't need to fix a stop/loss for a situation that never occurred. I think it will never be the case, so much "advantages" I have against the wheel, with my game. As I stated many times, the system can go for 260+ spins but never get close to reach the first third of my progression. And my progression is made in a way to is virtually impossible to cross certain points.

Yes, happens at least once every couple days that I have to put more than 300 units in the game. I try not to do because the more you cash the higher your chances to get notice (at least this is my way of thinking, I am not sure it is real with all the methods they now use to check your persona while in a casino), and I do not use fidelity cards or perks or anything that can leave a trace.

Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: jerome26b on February 13, 2017, 06:42:33 PM
Very interesting story. Sometimes seeing a problem differently can give a solution. It reminds me how Turing unciphered the enigma code during the Second World War using a different approach than pure mathematical one cause pure mathematically itself it was not possible because of too many possibilities to compute at that moment.
What's interesting more me about your finding/process : do this switch in your mind made you find a totally different system from scratch or you stayed in your current studies or systems as you played before but using a different approach to solve them ?

Jerome.
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: Reyth on February 13, 2017, 06:51:47 PM

1) Fill your mind with facts, accumulated by study and experimentation
2) Don't give up
3) Wait for all of the facts to "click" at the perfect moment.

Like picking a lock.

Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: DrTalos on February 13, 2017, 08:39:05 PM
Was completely different from everything I used or studied. I was a "lover" of sectors, and I always loved play straight numbers. My system as you already know doesn't care about these factors.
The idea stroke me and left me with a urgency to follow new paths. Was in that moment that I figured out there is a weakness in the game. And I found several way to attack it (was like when you hear a new word, and then you find the new word everywhere) some with more success than others. The one who looked more promising was exploited at the maximum level, and finally became an HG.

Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: Reyth on February 13, 2017, 08:56:04 PM
If the problem hadn't been clarified in your mind from all your failed approaches, how could you have recognized the solution?
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: jerome26b on February 13, 2017, 09:44:05 PM
So with all your years in roulette your mind was really stucked on some old standard. i suppose it can be if it's 10-20 years, it's true that i see some profile so on forums always on the same hum i want to be polite but in complete fallacy for me. For example the virtual spins i can't imagine how you can stay in that for many years and not stopping that way in time.
Sure from nearly one year i'm not at all in these kind of system when i see some on forum i just switch directly, bet selection is the same. what require more attentions is original progressions, strategies and stacking plans that can give an advantage. what i mean i don't care about history of the wheel but i still think that some tendancies can be maybe exploited with avery good plan and progression (and eventually a stop loss). All other stochastics, differential betting system way (not putting all your eggs in the same basket maybe) merit an attention as well. i'm impressed that you were able to find a system just based on progression and numbers played every spin that is never failing. You said that you luckily find a system that was not bad and you perfected it so you say you got the idea from this system or it's just this system that was just the beginning and open the path to your final system. A big difference if you played straights and sectors is surely the total numbers played that is probably a big difference between all you tried before and now. Now you search to get the average and be little in profit (and small) before you wanted to catch your sectors/numbers less chances bigger profit but long losses. I don't really played yet the american wheel but i suppose with the zéro and double zéro you can have them fall 4-5 times in a row ? is not the most painful for your system ?

jerome.
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: jerome26b on February 13, 2017, 10:51:03 PM

1) Fill your mind with facts, accumulated by study and experimentation
2) Don't give up
3) Wait for all of the facts to "click" at the perfect moment.

Like picking a lock.

Does the progression is the key or the weakness of the wheel is ?

Jerome
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: Reyth on February 13, 2017, 11:52:59 PM
I am not sure what you mean here but I think "the progression is the key" relates to "the only weakness the wheel has (TOW)" because TOW is that the wheel must always be expected to provide a hit in around 450 numbers spun and therefore, a progression that can last long enough to eclipse 450 spun numbers will simply be expected to win all the time (even if it might take a larger number of spins).
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: jerome26b on February 14, 2017, 04:49:15 PM
The selection is not important but just the total numbers played but we know he's playing groups so let's limit us to the chances what they can be : ec, dozen, line , streets, corners.
In that case I don't really know if he has to follow anyway a pattern or a strategy one spin after another or in another case let's say MrTalos give us every spin the total number played and we give him our choice exemple :
- first spin high miss
- second spin high miss
- third spin he says choose 2 dozen and we choose randomly 1 and 2 miss
- fourth spin let's continue the same for the example we choose 2 and 3 hit not recovered
- fifth spin he asked us to choose one dozen we choose ourselves dozen one and we hit game over.

In the logic he explained it should work that way whatever we choose at the end (even if we hit at spin 1-2-3-4-5 or later) or maybe the pattern he is using spin after spin has some importance anyway in the process.

Jerome
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: Reyth on February 14, 2017, 05:18:21 PM
Maybe the key is to design a betting method that will spin 450 numbers with no hits and remain under 1500 total debt.  Once we have that we have the car.  Now we have to put the wheels on it which is the ability to also stay within 5-6 wins of a new high balance the whole way.
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: jerome26b on February 14, 2017, 05:54:03 PM
in my sample of 4000 real spin i never went more than spin 7 or 8 so not even at 200 numbers without any hit(using my pattern follow the last) so i believe mrtalos when he said that not having any hit after 228 numbers played is very rare (i don't think it happens once every 10000 spin, maybe it can be mathematically calculated but will not be totally accurate in the sequence of bets anyway cause of the first two bets that are EC and bring direct grinding quite often). So the majority of recovery plans are around spin 4-5 and many more on third spin when we miss that can lead to more difficult recovery than a one that hit at 7th spin in fact. And i'm wondering the fact he is using high/low as an ec among the 2 other ones has a kind of importance in his system. normally it shouldn't cause it's 18 numbers every...

jerome.
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: Reyth on February 14, 2017, 07:56:13 PM
If we can stay within 6 hits of a win no matter what the wheel brings and remain under 1400 units  total debt, we will simply win all the time.

We shouuld output our sessions that fall out of those parameters.
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: jerome26b on February 15, 2017, 10:47:45 PM
what I'm wondering is if the pattern he is using can be random (if exact numbers requested by the system are played) it should be if there's no bet selection. But I'm suspicious the pattern can have an importance cause MrTalos can change his pattern but he never said the pattern can be random. So I'm wondering at the end if there's a relation with the pattern and the system in a sense the pattern exploiting the weakness and the progression make it easier to achieve the profit in the ratio he choose.

Jerome.
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: Reyth on February 15, 2017, 10:57:58 PM
Ya, only in the sense that it is the level of group that he bets.  His point is always that it doesn't matter WHICH Dozen or DS but that IT MUST BE a Dozen or DS to keep his MBA within the proper ratio.
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: jerome26b on February 15, 2017, 11:21:52 PM
There's something else for sure. You don't think if it was just a progression (as original as it can be) and amount numbers played / wager nobody will never find it ? MrTalos is a smart guy he gave some pieces but was not giving the main idea. Put you at his place taking so much time to get a system and revealing enough on a specialized forum to have all the brain focused to solve the trick ? If it was me I will not even put a clue he gave in fact so we have to consider if he made it's in a very conservative way to not let us know. He's always confident anyway that we will not find but at the end his objective will be achieved to let us know there is a path of hope to get something. So my concern again that it's better to act as a profiler than solving the given clues(unfortunately again he's staying completely anonymous ). Last answers learned me not to take all in the first sense. The no/or/and concepts ( i work in a agile/scrum company and I know all of this ...) appeared to me as a way to mask some things by the fact he was telling too much or not enough. In all case I think it's my last post on this thread except if there's good incoming interactions cause yes I think now it's a no ending path. I have enough elements now to work on my way and maybe find something / or not (like I said not the end of the world).

Cheers

Jerome
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: jerome26b on February 16, 2017, 09:45:49 PM
i would just add that it would be easy now to have the truth about the whole story it's just question of money. it's not very fair way to go but you know everything has a price so i would just say if i'm sure mrtalos has the HG it would be quite easy for me to do money online with his pretending HG. i mean i'm playing on a site i already withdraw 35000 euros without problem and there's many more i can play.  I mean it would be in the interrest of mrtalos to make some contacts with good agreement for him to earn more good money without the need of grinding and there will be no risk at the end cause i'm in europe and not going to his market ; furthermore i will never talk about a system i've an agreement and pay so much for.  i mean if i was him i would try to do it maybe at a moment. So just let's say if i can offer a percentage or maybe a fixed price let's say one hundred thousand if the system is really HG should be a good price ? of course i will not pay that directly it would be a tacit agreement between us about results. what do you think mrtalos ... at the end it's just taking the most money as we can from the devil no ?

jerome
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: Reyth on February 16, 2017, 09:56:57 PM
You are asking him to risk his entire money making method which he has established for the benefit of his family's future on the word of some unknown person and which is manifested through the medium of little colored lights on a remote screen?

I mean as much as I would wish to join you with the same agreement of secrecy & trust, let's face it, it ain't gonna happen?

We are not that far off.  I think we have the whole betting scheme, really.  I bet if we work with a 1% bet cap, we will produce some impressive results, actually.

He has already admitted that he shrinks his bet selection to save money.

I predict that you are going to say some iteration of:

"the bets go on forever and never end"

because you are allergic to a shrinking bet selection.

Nobody said we can't go back up the ladder once we have collected some more numbers spun and the win won't take us to the 1:60 anymore.  Its just that we need to retreat because things are too hot to bring the game to a close at the moment.

We can use the same MBA ratio to signal when to increase our bet selection again.

(https://forum.roulette30.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi68.tinypic.com%2F106ekhz.jpg&hash=2cb8c1e8459a9ffbd1bd3304de12261f)

Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: jerome26b on February 16, 2017, 11:06:55 PM
reyth,

you're very  unpredictable and make me laught (on the good way thought)
what i would like to say is the fact i'm really inside new world online and can probably do more money than i can do on online casino. (i'm reverse on actual ranges  for many things). so just let's see ...

cheers

jerome
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: DrTalos on February 17, 2017, 01:21:27 AM
Thank you for your kind offer Jerome, but I am not interested.
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: BlueAngel on February 17, 2017, 10:01:37 AM
Listen carefully, all of you!
Someone was asking for free lunch but there is NOT any such thing, I've opened my eyes, why don't you open yours?!
As I call it, "Dr Talos Talisman" is like phantomas...many have heard about it but no-one can prove its existence, it's more like a wishful thinking..."how nice it would have been to have an invincible method!"...

So, like they say at my country, Dr Talos shoots blanks in order to catch full...in other words he is very good bluffer, he could be a champion in Poker, if he is not already!

There was NOTHING from the beginning but Dr Talos, or should I say [no you shouldn't], driven by his desire to get his hands around other people's ideas by motivating them, the "carrot" to run for the forum's donkeys was the pretension that he has a Holy Grail roulette system.

Come on guys, do you really believe there is such thing?!
And if there was, do you expect from someone who has nothing to do with you to share it away like this?!
By the way, I've searched on Facebook but I've found only Paola de Filippo instead of Filippo de Paola.

Come on Dr Talos, let's drop the masks, admit that you have played us all the way!
Non the less I've to admit that you played many people for long time pretty well, at least I'm giving you that.

If your HG talisman was true, I'd be the first to understand and endorse, possible slogans would be:

"Feel rich, feel invincible, feel like [who?]"       or         "Do it like Talos!"

By the way, why a person who has as much money as he wants needs an investors' visa??
Credit is for people who their wealth is insufficient, for me it's very hard to imagine someone who supposed posses the HG to need a credit card!  :o

Mod: REDACTED.  We will not tolerate personal attacks in this forum.
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: jerome26b on February 17, 2017, 10:03:33 AM
Yes and we have other paths to follow. a strange thing about roulette (and other gambling games in fact) is in all history there was never an HG published in a book or in internet forum apparently. It could be for evident reasons but it's difficult to understand that there was never something published somewhere. i mean if some HG are there and there i can imagine at least some people would be tempted at a moment to write a book and do more money than grinding in the casino. some well known authors did but we know they are all BS ... or maybe not ...

so there's 2 options for me :
- either there's no HG possible and mathematicians are rights.
- some HG should exist there and there maybe in a book or in internet forum and we have to find them.

jerome
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: jerome26b on February 17, 2017, 10:09:49 AM

BA,
you're right and i was writing just at the moment you posted your message. see my response below.
I'm impressed that you did your personal research about him; I don't ask you how you know his name but I can assume it's by personal email exchange you got with him earlier.
If you remember well I was assuming many time that MrTalos can play with all of us (he was even amused to be judged like a sociopath in one of his reply)
Its already some time I was thinking that the best argument to fall the mask will be the argument of money (and what I explained in my reply). For a smart guy like MrTalos shouldn't be stupid to follow a boredom activity (its his terms) to grind and hide his system to not be noticed or maybe have some problems if he's catched.
So it's my bluff argument and chess and mate argument now to be sure the guy was not serious. If you have the HG do you will continue to grind like him ?
yes maybe i will for a moment to take as much money I can from some casino but for sure I would like to write a book to make maximum of money and have more time to spend with my family outside the casino. that's the real question every people that believe the MrTalos story have to ask themselves.
I've understand very good stuff in the process anyway, the main one is that I'm completely 100 % convinced now that no winning system using progression can work in the long term I mean using playable progression and with continuous playing. It's the reason I was emphasize there should be something else : the philosophical idea as drTalos said but there was a kind of wizardry around that. The only solution I was thinking last moment was the fact that this idea was exploiting some physical weakness of the wheel and so MrTalos was an AP player...
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: BlueAngel on February 17, 2017, 10:44:05 AM
Jerome,
Regardless of the validity of claims, you have made an incredible research being motivated by fallacious claims, BUT it doesn't matter, all the same as long as your end result is not like empty words!

I really admire your devotion to success, such consistent efforts deserve to be rewarded with one way or the other.
Success needs to be true to yourself and what you are aiming for, success needs consistent efforts and consistent efforts need the power of will, discipline, patience, even personal sacrifice.

Nobody could ever understand the level of difficulty in all of its facets, psychologically, mentally, financially, even socially when he/she has never been in such position!
But I can, I really do...!

A friendly notice for you Jerome, in your 4000 spins file, it might NOT include the worst it COULD happen to your method.
If you help me understand your findings, how your method works, I could help you by giving you my true, unbiased recommendations  based on my big knowledge and experience around gambling.
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: BlueAngel on February 17, 2017, 10:47:55 AM
Yes and we have other paths to follow. a strange thing about roulette (and other gambling games in fact) is in all history there was never an HG published in a book or in internet forum apparently. It could be for evident reasons but it's difficult to understand that there was never something published somewhere. i mean if some HG are there and there i can imagine at least some people would be tempted at a moment to write a book and do more money than grinding in the casino. some well known authors did but we know they are all BS ... or maybe not ...

so there's 2 options for me :
- either there's no HG possible and mathematicians are rights.
- some HG should exist there and there maybe in a book or in internet forum and we have to find them.

jerome

There is a third option also; what if exists a system/method in a sense HG of gambling but it's well hidden for obvious reasons??
Probably this third option is most likely, just my 3 cents.
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: Jesper on February 17, 2017, 01:18:49 PM
How can things be hidden? if played it is recorded!
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: BlueAngel on February 17, 2017, 01:29:28 PM
How can things be hidden? if played it is recorded!

Recorded by casinos, not from us, the players, the majority.
Even the "eye in the sky" doesn't comprehend the complete picture because it's not always the same person(s)...
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: DrTalos on February 17, 2017, 01:35:25 PM
BlueAngel you made my day, ahahahah.
An investor's Visa is a legal permit to move in USA, not a credit card. Ahahahah.
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: BlueAngel on February 17, 2017, 01:41:50 PM
BlueAngel you made my day, ahahahah.
An investor's Visa is a legal permit to move in USA, not a credit card. Ahahahah.

Oups!  ;D

So you were a millionaire before you arrive at USA and discover your HG??
I remember that you have created it after your relocation at US, if I'm not mistaken it doesn't make sense to me.
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: DrTalos on February 17, 2017, 02:36:09 PM
Do I really have to chase your ghosts, BlueAngel?
I am not a millionaire, never claimed that. I get a very good living playing roulette, and I invested some money in a company in US because I decided to move to US years ago. If this doesn't fit your expectation is not a problem of mine.
To you and to all people who spend time reading this forum and this thread, I keep assume that your goal is to find a way to crack the game. If this thread, my posts, or just my encouragement did that, I am happy. If not, I guess I will be able to survive, and move over.
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: Geoffrey on February 17, 2017, 05:16:11 PM
I suggest you go talk about your pipe dream somewhere else. not all people are so gullible.

there is no such thing as a HG, never has , never will be. If your 'thing' would be a HG for real, you would be a millionaire, which you claim not to be, proof enough to me that you dont trust your own system to be a HG. there you have it, you wont sell your system, because there is nothing to sell at all.

If it were me, if i truely would find the system with the golden eggs. i would squeez it to it fullest. You clrealy dont.

You talk big, but thats about it.
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: juice on February 17, 2017, 06:08:43 PM
Dr T., I for one do not think your are full of malarkey, and defend your effort. This does not mean that I do not respect Blue Angle, quite the opposite, I try and respect all views on every forum and form my own opinion. This is a lesson we all were taught as small children, by our folks and family and the classroom! As we age we become less likely to edit ourselves and can not find tolerance when tolerance is needed most.
I know you have something to offer because I have my own Grail, and it does not win every time, but it is up to ME, to employ all the countermeasures against my own bad habits. It is not a great strategy that fails, it is us who fail it.

The best lesson learned in this type forum is there are some really BRIGHT MO FO'S on this site and you have given only crumbs, as their food for thought. It may seem to you, that you have fed the masses food for thought, with your multiple clues, but, in truth, we all know the key pieces to your success are still in your brain and I would not blame you if that is where they remain in perpetuity. A perfect example of this is, my belief that you employ a parlay. You claim you do not, but you really do, just not by typical definition. If you continue to alter your bet amount and the payout odds by positions on the felt, this is the Same thing as a parlay. I do not expect anyone to agree with my logic but it is logic just the same.
Jerome and Reyth have taken what was once yours and made it theirs, a pretty great accomplishment if you ask me, and I do not agree with all of their approaches. I see your bet as a seed and I enjoy watching it grow. I am no different than anybody else in the world, I want a shorter path to greatness, and you have been able to peak many of the interests of the players here, and I think it is great!
This will have little to no impact on this forum, but, my multiple strategies and banking methods are written down and are very decipherable . I have instructed my estate to send them directly to several individual, some on this forum, upon my direction or death. I have been a voyeur for many years on many forums, usually as a guest, completely anonymous , mostly to avoid negative morons, that feel the need to challenge you on what they will never believe and have not the ability to understand, so I feel my effort is better spent ignoring them. My entire purpose for partisipating at all is obvious  , I want to learn more! I want to be impressed by the great minds that I see. You, me, or anyone else did not invent this game, so that makes us students in the same brotherhood! I am a simple guy, with an appetite for free thought and I will continue my pursuit for knowledge and the hunt for a better mouse trap.

KEEP WINNING! AND SEE YOU IN THE TRENCHES....... The juice
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: Reyth on February 17, 2017, 07:46:25 PM
At some point I will gear up and use all of the additional data that I have obtained so I can produce something even stronger.  I know I am closer than ever.
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: jerome26b on February 17, 2017, 08:01:25 PM
Jerome,
Regardless of the validity of claims, you have made an incredible research being motivated by fallacious claims, BUT it doesn't matter, all the same as long as your end result is not like empty words!

I really admire your devotion to success, such consistent efforts deserve to be rewarded with one way or the other.
Success needs to be true to yourself and what you are aiming for, success needs consistent efforts and consistent efforts need the power of will, discipline, patience, even personal sacrifice.

Nobody could ever understand the level of difficulty in all of its facets, psychologically, mentally, financially, even socially when he/she has never been in such position!
But I can, I really do...!

A friendly notice for you Jerome, in your 4000 spins file, it might NOT include the worst it COULD happen to your method.
If you help me understand your findings, how your method works, I could help you by giving you my true, unbiased recommendations  based on my big knowledge and experience around gambling.
BA,

thanks for your kind words. it's true i was really involved and at some moment i was even away socially even with my family (i wanted to stay in my bubble sometimes to think 100% about roulette even my focus at work was borderline because of that). But last moments made me switch to something else and continue to search but not staying focus on this system in particular (hypothetical or not). i just don't want to become crazy and loose my mind about something that maybe doesn't exist. i learned a lot in the process anyway and i think i will be now in a new area for myself around the game and it's limitations. about your 4000 spins remarks thanks i know it's not enough but i can tell you this history i made was very helpful and made me avoid spending lot of money for nothing. before that i was tempted quite quickly to try a system real money after reading some forums and i lost some money in the process. now with my 4000 spin file i can see directly if a system worse something or not. Many times a system can pass 1000 spins but then it bust. no system at this moment passed 1500 spins of my file. Even the ones i did around the drtalos clues failed somewhere. the last version i did the most simple failed strangely deep far (after 1500 spins i think) and before i never had to put more than 300 units. i will explain in future posts what i found about the clues. but don't expect very big revelations cause it failed always at a moment. i will explain as well some ways i took taking into account the canons. so about my file of 4000 spins it really help but i know for sure if at a moment i have a system that pass these 4000 spins that i will have to test with some other samples (i have some others in my stock but not 4000 in a row)

jerome
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: jerome26b on February 17, 2017, 08:15:13 PM
Yes and we have other paths to follow. a strange thing about roulette (and other gambling games in fact) is in all history there was never an HG published in a book or in internet forum apparently. It could be for evident reasons but it's difficult to understand that there was never something published somewhere. i mean if some HG are there and there i can imagine at least some people would be tempted at a moment to write a book and do more money than grinding in the casino. some well known authors did but we know they are all BS ... or maybe not ...

so there's 2 options for me :
- either there's no HG possible and mathematicians are rights.
- some HG should exist there and there maybe in a book or in internet forum and we have to find them.

jerome

There is a third option also; what if exists a system/method in a sense HG of gambling but it's well hidden for obvious reasons??
Probably this third option is most likely, just my 3 cents.
if it was really the case you don't think that somebody would have make it public in some way by publishing at least an ebook at a big prize. all books are quite BS and the internet forums have more valuable informations. some people pretended that some HG were revealed on gamblersglen forum for example. Just something i remember right now is the fact that mrtalos said his system is not far from some he was reading on this forum...
i'm quite sure if something really exist i mean the HG in his pure form betting without a stop and always finishing in plus whatever the situation it should be somewhere... somebody tried the winkel GUT system ? apparently winkel said he's still winner with this one. not easy to use in real casino but it's possible online with a program doing the calculation... like i said many times for me i would consider an HG any system that have a plus at the end with quite good ratio among number spins played (otherwise better to find a job) even if it's with a stop loss. Imagine there's a system that can let us put one bet in 100 spins but this bet gave an advantage of some percents. at this moment it's just a question of amount by unit bet. if we put 1000 euros one flat bet and have advantage it's a good deal even if we have to wait 100 spins to do this bet. i have problem with that in the sense i don't believe anymore about bet history so i'm not working in that sense but maybe i'm wrong and i've still to learn on that.

jerome
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: Reyth on February 17, 2017, 08:15:46 PM
I am compiling a list of TRNG numbers and so far I have 160,000.  That still is not enough to reveal a system's true weaknesses.

I am thinking of making it in the millions and then using it as a seed and developing as many methods as possible to access the seed for maximum testing results.
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: jerome26b on February 17, 2017, 08:22:23 PM
it's a mess mrtalos is not playing online otherwise he could gave us the proof he has the HG. online all your win/losses are recorded in an history (at least on one site i play) and every spin has a timestamp with win/loss amount. so by providing some print screen for big enough sample he would be able to prove he has something without having to reveal anything. it's what i would do in fact if i got it ...
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: jerome26b on February 17, 2017, 08:33:09 PM

So, like they say at my country, Dr Talos shoots blanks in order to catch full...in other words he is very good bluffer, he could be a champion in Poker, if he is not already!

There was NOTHING from the beginning but Dr Talos, or should I say Filippo de Paola, driven by his desire to get his hands around other people's ideas by motivating them, the "carrot" to run for the forum's donkeys was the pretension that he has a Holy Grail roulette system.
i would like to rebounce on that remark. it's true that if drtalos is bluffing he deserved the nobel price and hes maybe the best one i read ever on any internet gambling forums. but here comes the second point what's his point of interrest so ? just a need to express and amplify his incredible EGO. i would say something around that about my feeling is the fact that he has an incredible EGO about his system and by some occasions he was denying people from this forum, pretending he's the smart guy and the only one that has a bulletproof system and all of us we don't have it. And by the way he's staying very quiet and not really offended by numbers of our attacks around his system. And he stayed polite and knowledgeable the whole way (except his EGO) maybe it could mean something at the end about which kind of person he his and his real objectives. i made my conviction finally not about his system but about the guy and the story around that with small personal details he gave there and there. And yes sure he's unmasked now for me, i acted as a profiler like i said and i know from now.
maybe he's writing a novel and use us as a source of inspiration by the way or ... maybe like i said some time ago he's using us to find his desesperate quest to the HG. i think the devil roulette can maybe makes people crazy after 20 years so everything is possible. maybe drtalos is writing from a psychiatric institute somewhere in  Italy :-)

jerome.
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: jerome26b on February 17, 2017, 08:57:17 PM
Dr T., I for one do not think your are full of malarkey, and defend your effort. This does not mean that I do not respect Blue Angle, quite the opposite, I try and respect all views on every forum and form my own opinion. This is a lesson we all were taught as small children, by our folks and family and the classroom! As we age we become less likely to edit ourselves and can not find tolerance when tolerance is needed most.
I know you have something to offer because I have my own Grail, and it does not win every time, but it is up to ME, to employ all the countermeasures against my own bad habits. It is not a great strategy that fails, it is us who fail it.

The best lesson learned in this type forum is there are some really BRIGHT MO FO'S on this site and you have given only crumbs, as their food for thought. It may seem to you, that you have fed the masses food for thought, with your multiple clues, but, in truth, we all know the key pieces to your success are still in your brain and I would not blame you if that is where they remain in purpatuaty. A perfect example of this is, my belief that you employ a parlay. You claim you do not, but you really do, just not by typical definition. If you continue to alter your bet amount and the payout odds by positions on the felt, this is the Same thing as a parlay. I do not expect anyone to agree with my logic but it is logic just the same.
Jerome and Reyth have taken what was once yours and made it theirs, a pretty great accomplishment if you ask me, and I do not agree with all of their approaches. I see your bet as a seed and I enjoy watching it grow. I am no different than anybody else in the world, I want a shorter path to greatness, and you have been able to peak many of the interests of the players here, and I think it is great!
This will have little to no impact on this forum, but, my multiple strategies and banking methods are written down and are very decipherable . I have instructed my estate to send them directly to several individual, some on this forum, upon my direction or death. I have been a voyeur for many years on many forums, usually as a guest, completely anonymous , mostly to avoid negative morons, that feel the need to challenge you on what they will never believe and have not the ability to understand, so I feel my effort is better spent ignoring them. My entire purpose for partisipating at all is obvious  , I want to learn more! I want to be impressed by the great minds that I see. You, me, or anyone else did not invent this game, so that makes us students in the same brotherhood! I am a simple guy, with an appetite for free thought and I will continue my pursuit for knowledge and the hunt for a better mouse trap.

KEEP WINNING! AND SEE YOU IN THE TRENCHES....... The juice
you made a good point juice at the end we have to consider in the long term flat bets/progression of any type / parlays are all giving the same result and can be interchangeable. the needs to give a name is just the human brain needs to analyze and separate some processes in a way they like the best considering their approach. it's the same for negative/positive progression in the long term result is the same ...
i would say that there's something very logical that i was not able to follow in all the drtalos stuff is the fact that the numbers have to come in your favor cause of a statistic aspect. he's expecting a ratio of 1/60 and so in 370 numbers he will need only 6 spins and not 10. i'm right until there but if you continue to bet a fixed number of numbers. if you reduce after a hit there's no sense and no logic that you will respect the statistic at the end. Play 24 numbers have one hit at spin 10 so 228 numbers played then suppose we reduce the bet to even only 21 or whatever the conditions changes cause you bet less numbers and there's no reason the long term will satisfy your new bet selection ... it's same as playing 24 numbers have the hit and play 6 numbers what the hell will explain you will get the hits under your ratio ? the initial conditions changed. in my last simulations i stayed continuously on 24 numbers bets and at the end it's what gave me the best result (1500 spins before bust)

jerome
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: jerome26b on February 17, 2017, 09:00:15 PM
I am compiling a list of TRNG numbers and so far I have 160,000.  That still is not enough to reveal a system's true weaknesses.

I am thinking of making it in the millions and then using it as a seed and developing as many methods as possible to access the seed for maximum testing results.
so you can code a system and run it against your file ?
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: jerome26b on February 17, 2017, 09:10:28 PM
so i don't have lot of time left tonight to explain everything but i will share my last investigations i did. One of the last one i was so curious about the weakness of the wheel that i investigate everything about that even the layout of the american and european wheel. i was surprised to find not so much studies where done around that and maybe i was thinking mrtalos found a flaw about number arrangement but because he's playing american one i had to focus first about american one what is difficult for me cause i don't have any knowledge and no spins about this one. i just found one interesting info that redirected me to a book of a mathematician and i was very surprised to notice that the author concludes that the american wheel is less balanced than the european one. in other terms he said the american wheel can't be really considered as giving true random outcomes based on the wheel layout. But the european one is much better balanced in random terms of distributed numbers. the author was comparing that to the actual rng roulettes that use true rng and are more perfect in the randomness. it was very interesting reading and i can found the link if somebody is interested cause it's very difficult to find ressources about this subjects except that apparently it's not exploitable in anyway. so my belief was that maybe mrtalos found a way to manage some group bet that rely to some contiguous sectors of the wheel for a good price and expect in the long term that the table layout will balance with the wheel layout in some way. i didn't investigate more on that but if the author said truth maybe there's something to work around that ...

jerome.
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: jerome26b on February 17, 2017, 09:16:49 PM
and to finish for tonight my last piesce of investigation was about differential betting not in the common sense but betting different amount in our selections example i play 3 ds i put 1 unit one one and 2 on each other's. just an example and very difficult to study cause there's so many options with so many différent outcomes and let the long term let you catch at some moment the selection where you put the most units to let you a winner. i was thinking about doing that planned or completely randomly. it was my very last thought and i didn't tested really all situations.

jerome
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: jerome26b on February 17, 2017, 09:26:54 PM
i'm an it guy and suddenly i got an idea to know at least if drtalos is located to usa or not (but he can defend himself to use a VPN but sure not). i see that my ip address is registered every time and i can see it in my post and when i fill it in this wonderful site https://www.iplocation.net i can see clearly i'm in belgium brussels the problem only the webmaster would have access to this info about mrtalos but we will see directly if he's in usa or not and it will already give us something about the honesty of the guy.

jerome.
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: Reyth on February 17, 2017, 09:42:52 PM
I am compiling a list of TRNG numbers and so far I have 160,000.  That still is not enough to reveal a system's true weaknesses.

I am thinking of making it in the millions and then using it as a seed and developing as many methods as possible to access the seed for maximum testing results.
so you can code a system and run it against your file ?

Exactly.  I already have coded systems but it is against a 16M PRNG seed; I am able to reset the seed at specific strategic times but so far have not achieved any changes by way of statistically significant results.

My results have also been corroborated in (at least) two objective real life ways:

1) Monte Carlo -- The most famous example... ...occurred in a game of roulette at the Casino de Monte-Carlo in the summer of 1913, when the ball fell in black 26 times in a row.

2) Bayes -- Has also obtained the same 25 EC in a row limit with his testing.

I am collecting TRNG results to hopefully provide a change in random results.
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: Reyth on February 17, 2017, 09:47:17 PM
i'm right until there but if you continue to bet a fixed number of numbers. if you reduce after a hit there's no sense and no logic that you will respect the statistic at the end. Play 24 numbers have one hit at spin 10 so 228 numbers played then suppose we reduce the bet to even only 21 or whatever the conditions changes cause you bet less numbers and there's no reason the long term will satisfy your new bet selection ... it's same as playing 24 numbers have the hit and play 6 numbers what the hell will explain you will get the hits under your ratio ? the initial conditions changed. in my last simulations i stayed continuously on 24 numbers bets and at the end it's what gave me the best result (1500 spins before bust)

jerome

The ONLY reason and time that we lower our bet selection is when the bet amounts would be too high of a risk to claim the 1:60 ratio and we only keep it lowered until we have a low enough bet amount to make claiming the ratio a reasonable risk.

This is governed by the MBA and I am suggesting that it might be something like 1% of the bankroll but he DEFINITELY has an MBA calculation and he DEFINITELY lowers his bet selection to save money and to stay safe when the tidal waves are raging.

Lowering the bet selection is 100% part of the solution for him to keep his costs down; he has already stated this very clearly.

All of our progress going forward MUST include lowering the bet selection to save money.  This is most assuredly part of the "counter-intuitive" and hidden way his progression functions; he has an up and down progression and an up and down bet selection -- very unique, right?

The reason it works is because we raise the bet selection when the MBA ratio allows it.

See, the bet selection functions just like the 1:60 ratio functions.  Using both together allows us to spin virtually infinitely while we wait for the "wheel's only weakness" which is providing a hit within about 450 numbers spun and then relinquishing that extreme with clusters of hits subsequent to that (eventually) -- WE ONLY NEED 5-6 HITS.

Without lowering the bet selection at strategic times, WE WILL NOT SURVIVE THE WORST THE WHEEL WILL BRING.

We have to realize that the wheel can drop a 450, provide a hit, and drop another 450 right after that.  If we cannot survive a move like that, we simply will not beat roulette, period.

Btw, on a side note, look how Harry J did against this move:

https://forum.roulette30.com/index.php?topic=530.msg6220#msg6220

Look Jerry I understand you HATE lowering your bets and you are CONVINCED it bets out to infinity BUT:

If we do not recover it is not because we lowered our bet selection IT IS BECAUSE WE DIDN'T RAISE OUR BET SELECTION WHEN THE MBA CALLED FOR IT.

This is a fact that we all must fully 100% accept or we will never capture what Dr. Talos has done.

I am deliberately being harsh and your "stubborness" is pissing me off.  I hope you understand.
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: jerome26b on February 17, 2017, 10:31:03 PM
i'm right until there but if you continue to bet a fixed number of numbers. if you reduce after a hit there's no sense and no logic that you will respect the statistic at the end. Play 24 numbers have one hit at spin 10 so 228 numbers played then suppose we reduce the bet to even only 21 or whatever the conditions changes cause you bet less numbers and there's no reason the long term will satisfy your new bet selection ... it's same as playing 24 numbers have the hit and play 6 numbers what the hell will explain you will get the hits under your ratio ? the initial conditions changed. in my last simulations i stayed continuously on 24 numbers bets and at the end it's what gave me the best result (1500 spins before bust)

jerome

The ONLY reason and time that we lower our bet selection is when the bet amounts would be too high of a risk to claim the 1:60 ratio and we only keep it lowered until we have a low enough bet amount to make claiming the ratio a reasonable risk.

This is governed by the MBA and I am suggesting that it might be something like 1% of the bankroll but he DEFINITELY has an MBA calculation and he DEFINITELY lowers his bet selection to save money and to stay safe when the tidal waves are raging.

Lowering the bet selection is 100% part of the solution for him to keep his costs down; he has already stated this very clearly.

All of our progress going forward MUST include lowering the bet selection to save money.  This is most assuredly part of the "counter-intuitive" and hidden way his progression functions; he has an up and down progression and an up and down bet selection -- very unique, right?

The reason it works is because we raise the bet selection when the MBA ratio allows it.

See, the bet selection functions just like the 1:60 ratio functions.  Using both together allows us to spin virtually infinitely while we wait for the "wheel's only weakness" which is providing a hit within about 450 numbers spun and then relinquishing that extreme with clusters of hits subsequent to that (eventually) -- WE ONLY NEED 5-6 HITS.

Without lowering the bet selection at strategic times, WE WILL NOT SURVIVE THE WORST THE WHEEL WILL BRING.

We have to realize that the wheel can drop a 450, provide a hit, and drop another 450 right after that.  If we cannot survive a move like that, we simply will not beat roulette, period.

Btw, on a side note, look how Harry J did against this move:

https://forum.roulette30.com/index.php?topic=530.msg6220#msg6220

Look Jerry I understand you HATE lowering your bets and you are CONVINCED it bets out to infinity BUT:

If we do not recover it is not because we lowered our bet selection IT IS BECAUSE WE DIDN'T RAISE OUR BET SELECTION WHEN THE MBA CALLED FOR IT.

This is a fact that we all must fully 100% accept or we will never capture what Dr. Talos has done.

I am deliberately being harsh and your "stubborness" is pissing me off.  I hope you understand.

Reyth,

i've a big problem with your reaisoning is the fact that at the end you expect some luck. the fact to reduce bets when we don't expect to hit or want to reduce when we will not hit is quite fallacy and at the end it can be close to virtual bets why betting so low if you can just don't bet at all so and do a virtual spin ?
it was in a sense my biggest problem with the drtalos system that apparently you apprehend but not me ... i can admit to think counter intuitive and stochastic way but at some moment we have minimum knowledge to not fall into wizardry right ?
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: kav on February 17, 2017, 10:39:09 PM
Talos' IP is from the US.
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: jerome26b on February 17, 2017, 10:42:55 PM
Talos' IP is from the US.
thanks Kav so the mystery stays and this discussion is not close to be over and my apologies mrtalos you're not interned in italy psychiatric center for unknown reasons ?!? derision is allowed here i suppose so :-)
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: jerome26b on February 17, 2017, 10:55:02 PM
Reyth,

you talked about lowering bet at strategic times how can you know surely the timestamp of these events is good when every time the ball is throw the game is new and indépendant ? i repeat myself but i've the feeling you fall in gambler fallacy like virtual bets. you will not place bets and avoid losses but you will not get wins as lady luck will bring you at these moments.
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: jerome26b on February 17, 2017, 10:55:56 PM
and i will push even more in the fact that mrtalos was preventing always to be away of any kind of this thinking way ...
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: Reyth on February 18, 2017, 02:39:12 AM
i've a big problem with your reaisoning is the fact that at the end you expect some luck.

Its not primarily luck, its breathing room.  I just need not to raise my bets so high for awhile because the 1:60 ratio is too demanding at my current bet selection and so I am using the bet selection to lower my bet until the ratio changes to the point to where the bet size is again acceptable.  This is the definition of MBA.

Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: Reyth on February 18, 2017, 02:44:48 AM
you talked about lowering bet at strategic times how can you know surely the timestamp of these events is good when every time the ball is throw the game is new and indépendant ?

Its the MBA.  When the bet sizing represents X of the total balance (I am recommeding 1% to start as an experiment) we move downwards in our bet selection like Talos says and that way our bet sizing is reduced so we stay safe.

Scenario #1: We get a hit early at the new bet selection (your luck), then our debt is reduced at a lower bet cost and a higher payout.

Scenario #2: We don't get a hit but NOW the ratio is 2 bets to 1:60 which gives us room to have a smaller bet sizing and a larger bet selection.

Our bet selection is dictated by the MBA.  Our bet amount is dictated by the 1:60 ratio and the maximum range of 5-6 bets away from a win.
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: BlueAngel on February 18, 2017, 02:48:26 AM
Jerome,
Regardless of the validity of claims, you have made an incredible research being motivated by fallacious claims, BUT it doesn't matter, all the same as long as your end result is not like empty words!

I really admire your devotion to success, such consistent efforts deserve to be rewarded with one way or the other.
Success needs to be true to yourself and what you are aiming for, success needs consistent efforts and consistent efforts need the power of will, discipline, patience, even personal sacrifice.

Nobody could ever understand the level of difficulty in all of its facets, psychologically, mentally, financially, even socially when he/she has never been in such position!
But I can, I really do...!

A friendly notice for you Jerome, in your 4000 spins file, it might NOT include the worst it COULD happen to your method.
If you help me understand your findings, how your method works, I could help you by giving you my true, unbiased recommendations  based on my big knowledge and experience around gambling.
BA,

thanks for your kind words. it's true i was really involved and at some moment i was even away socially even with my family (i wanted to stay in my bubble sometimes to think 100% about roulette even my focus at work was borderline because of that). But last moments made me switch to something else and continue to search but not staying focus on this system in particular (hypothetical or not). i just don't want to become crazy and loose my mind about something that maybe doesn't exist. i learned a lot in the process anyway and i think i will be now in a new area for myself around the game and it's limitations. about your 4000 spins remarks thanks i know it's not enough but i can tell you this history i made was very helpful and made me avoid spending lot of money for nothing. before that i was tempted quite quickly to try a system real money after reading some forums and i lost some money in the process. now with my 4000 spin file i can see directly if a system worse something or not. Many times a system can pass 1000 spins but then it bust. no system at this moment passed 1500 spins of my file. Even the ones i did around the drtalos clues failed somewhere. the last version i did the most simple failed strangely deep far (after 1500 spins i think) and before i never had to put more than 300 units. i will explain in future posts what i found about the clues. but don't expect very big revelations cause it failed always at a moment. i will explain as well some ways i took taking into account the canons. so about my file of 4000 spins it really help but i know for sure if at a moment i have a system that pass these 4000 spins that i will have to test with some other samples (i have some others in my stock but not 4000 in a row)

jerome

I'm very interested to test it.
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: jerome26b on February 18, 2017, 10:51:33 AM
BA,

here you go, renamed in txt (xls file), it's form immersive roulette live spins online no stopped.

Jérôme
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: jerome26b on February 18, 2017, 12:41:38 PM
you talked about lowering bet at strategic times how can you know surely the timestamp of these events is good when every time the ball is throw the game is new and indépendant ?

Its the MBA.  When the bet sizing represents X of the total balance (I am recommeding 1% to start as an experiment) we move downwards in our bet selection like Talos says and that way our bet sizing is reduced so we stay safe.

Scenario #1: We get a hit early at the new bet selection (your luck), then our debt is reduced at a lower bet cost and a higher payout.

Scenario #2: We don't get a hit but NOW the ratio is 2 bets to 1:60 which gives us room to have a smaller bet sizing and a larger bet selection.

Out bet selection is dictated by the MBA.  Our bet amount is dictated by the 1:60 ratio and the maximum range of 5-6 bets away from a win.
Reyth,

i extensively tested these both scenario, at a moment it failed i can assure you... or maybe i missed the secret formula of Talos ? It can work for 1000 spins then you will encounter an occurrence that will make this scheme going deep. I juts tried that using always a last number hit as a pattern for my bets. Tried with DS, 2 last streets hiots, mlast dozne, even last EC, all will encounter at a moment an unrecoverable situation. I will not say i experiment 100% but i did a lot to be quite sure it's not working all the time, when it work yes it seemss you grind easily until... the inevitable like every system. It's the reason i was convinced at a moment there was something else; the missing part, the philosophical idea of MrTalos and my research were in that direction last weeks. Even trying to find a weakness in the wheel layout itself like i said yesterday. Using differential/randomised betting changing selection at every hit. I will not completly give up cause i didn't tested all options but i'm close to the end of this path before maybe exploring others.

Jérôme
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: jerome26b on February 18, 2017, 01:05:30 PM
i'm right until there but if you continue to bet a fixed number of numbers. if you reduce after a hit there's no sense and no logic that you will respect the statistic at the end. Play 24 numbers have one hit at spin 10 so 228 numbers played then suppose we reduce the bet to even only 21 or whatever the conditions changes cause you bet less numbers and there's no reason the long term will satisfy your new bet selection ... it's same as playing 24 numbers have the hit and play 6 numbers what the hell will explain you will get the hits under your ratio ? the initial conditions changed. in my last simulations i stayed continuously on 24 numbers bets and at the end it's what gave me the best result (1500 spins before bust). Then the same decision after the second hit and you're still down.

jerome

The ONLY reason and time that we lower our bet selection is when the bet amounts would be too high of a risk to claim the 1:60 ratio and we only keep it lowered until we have a low enough bet amount to make claiming the ratio a reasonable risk.

This is governed by the MBA and I am suggesting that it might be something like 1% of the bankroll but he DEFINITELY has an MBA calculation and he DEFINITELY lowers his bet selection to save money and to stay safe when the tidal waves are raging.

Lowering the bet selection is 100% part of the solution for him to keep his costs down; he has already stated this very clearly.

All of our progress going forward MUST include lowering the bet selection to save money.  This is most assuredly part of the "counter-intuitive" and hidden way his progression functions; he has an up and down progression and an up and down bet selection -- very unique, right?

The reason it works is because we raise the bet selection when the MBA ratio allows it.

See, the bet selection functions just like the 1:60 ratio functions.  Using both together allows us to spin virtually infinitely while we wait for the "wheel's only weakness" which is providing a hit within about 450 numbers spun and then relinquishing that extreme with clusters of hits subsequent to that (eventually) -- WE ONLY NEED 5-6 HITS.

Without lowering the bet selection at strategic times, WE WILL NOT SURVIVE THE WORST THE WHEEL WILL BRING.

We have to realize that the wheel can drop a 450, provide a hit, and drop another 450 right after that.  If we cannot survive a move like that, we simply will not beat roulette, period.

Btw, on a side note, look how Harry J did against this move:

https://forum.roulette30.com/index.php?topic=530.msg6220#msg6220 (https://forum.roulette30.com/index.php?topic=530.msg6220#msg6220)

Look Jerry I understand you HATE lowering your bets and you are CONVINCED it bets out to infinity BUT:

If we do not recover it is not because we lowered our bet selection IT IS BECAUSE WE DIDN'T RAISE OUR BET SELECTION WHEN THE MBA CALLED FOR IT.

This is a fact that we all must fully 100% accept or we will never capture what Dr. Talos has done.

I am deliberately being harsh and your "stubborness" is pissing me off.  I hope you understand.
Reyth,

i completely agree with all you said and it was the essence of MrTalos system based on his clues, i did many test in that sense, did you tried yourself ? Like said earlier i did all my tests up/down, etc using the pattern "last number" maybe it has to be tested for another pattern (but according to MrTalos there was not a better pattern than another so i didn't waste my time trying another one). Take the file of 4000 spins i put in attachement to BA and you will see by yourself, if you can pass the 4000 spin file yo will got something, i didn't yet actually... The trick is always the same, how you will define the perfect moment to raise/down the selection ? I did many trials with many different boundaries. The problem is when you dropped the selection and you didn't get the hit then you have to raise again the selection but you can encounter outcomes where it's going deep (and the betting amount as well), of course you can reduce the bet size cause you know you will need 2/3/4 bets to recover, in fact at that moment you just instintically apply the divisor... You will always have your first hit at a moment, the tricky part si if the second or third is not comming quickly (Talos admitted that fact), and so his system is waiting to catch a streak; like many system around the same scheme. So like i explained the problem is not to catch the first hit (you will have it before 450 numbers played), and then you have another decision to take when you got your first hit, you will stay with your selection ? Change your selection ? Reduce the selection again ? LIke i said and i have to be honnest i didn't tried 100% of the cases.

Jérôme
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: DrTalos on February 18, 2017, 02:02:30 PM
I live in Central New York
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: Reyth on February 18, 2017, 02:28:58 PM
We need to share examples of win loss registries and betting histories.  By discussing these, we can figure this out.
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: BlueAngel on February 18, 2017, 03:24:22 PM
I live in Central New York

It's none of my business but if you would asked me I'd rather live at West coast, California or Nevada, the only East side state I like is Florida.
I cannot understand why so many people get attracted by cities such as NY!  ::)
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: juice on February 18, 2017, 04:34:40 PM
BA, that ain't close to the city by any stretch.  It's cow country for the most part with some cities scattered about.
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: DrTalos on February 18, 2017, 06:02:03 PM
Juice, your ability to get the point every time is astounding.
Yes, I do live in a quiet small village, because I chose to have good school for my daughter. I can go to New York City or Boston in few hours, if pleases me.
I do not understand why this is relevant for my system or me as a person. I do not understand why wasting time pretending to know my inner meanings or the secret scam I planning, or to accomplish my inflated Ego... I didn't ask to you all for anything, money or solutions. I kept pushing you to do your best reaching your goals, and sorry if I just wanted that.
Wanna blame me for your lack of comprehension? Please, do if make you feel better. My system is real, my life is real, my clues are real. If you don't get it is not my fault.
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: juice on February 18, 2017, 06:23:31 PM
Hey Doc, point the turret towards someone else! I could care less where you live. I was just participating in the conversation. I know you live in a beautiful area, just saying..............
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: Real on February 18, 2017, 07:31:55 PM
The Dr Talos scam is as squirrely and goofy as the Charles cwb scam.

Cryptic clues and the secret squirrel game should be an immediate red flag that you're dealing with a scammer who travels from place to place.

Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: jerome26b on February 19, 2017, 10:07:01 AM
I live in Central New York
Not so easy to play for a leaving in LV...
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: BlueAngel on February 19, 2017, 10:28:49 AM
@ Jerome,

@ dr Talos

One of my principles is to do what I'm saying and prove what I'm claiming, so since you decided to share your discovery/achievement with us you have to prove the validity of your claims, otherwise your words are like dust in the wind, nothing, like hot air.
I'm sorry but this is the truth, what's the point of letting us know what you've found when you are unwilling to provide further details in order we (forum members) to verify what you have find?
Why you brought that in our attention on the first place? To make us jealous?
Personally speaking, I cannot envy "ghosts", you are just a voice through the internet, shall we believe and accept everything you told us?
Does it make sense to you??
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: kav on February 19, 2017, 10:33:48 AM
Well BA,
This exact topic you are reading is inspired by Talos, with his posts he has ignited interesting roulette research by Reyth, Jerome and everyone else who contributed.
And please don't make it personal. One of the charms of our forum is that we debate about ideas, not persons. So no further personal comments will be allowed, that will side track this great thread.
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: jerome26b on February 19, 2017, 05:31:30 PM
@ Jerome,

You have to rename it in xlsx file (excel speadsheet)
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: jerome26b on February 19, 2017, 05:47:38 PM
i've a big problem with your reaisoning is the fact that at the end you expect some luck.

Its not primarily luck, its breathing room.  I just need not to raise my bets so high for awhile because the 1:60 ratio is too demanding at my current bet selection and so I am using the bet selection to lower my bet until the ratio changes to the point to where the bet size is again acceptable.  This is the definition of MBA.

Reyth,

i think i unerstand a little bit more what you're talking about, so it means you don't rely completely about the 1/60 ratio right ? In fact maybe you're right cause we know since last week that DrTalos doesn't rely completely on that (with a second win at 1:180 that can close the game), so maybe it can work on the other side as well. But i'm not completely convinced cause MrTalos always said that every time he's getting one hit every 60 numbers played he's in profit (but maybe it's an average and not a 100 % condition).
I will try some testing tonigh in that sense to see if it can bring better results than all others of my simulations.

i did already little adaptation in the series i got issues, seems promising but i've the feeling it's kind of lucky to catch the good hit at the good moment, i just tried to raise once i reach a boundary then after the hit going down again. Sure it prevent to goind to fast deep in the progression and expect to catch a hit. Only problem what's happening if you don't get your hit when you raised the progression ? Just stay at this level and reduce betting amount too ?

Jérôme
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: Reyth on February 19, 2017, 07:30:41 PM
Our actions need to be based on the 1:60 ratio combined with winning in at least 5-6 hits AND the MBA which represents a certain X bet amount figure in relation to the bankroll (I suggest 1% as an experiment).

So this means our lowering of the bet selection is done when the bet amount rises higher than the "1%" and we "move inward" only as much as necessary to bet lower than the 1%.  That same principle applies in raising the bet selection; we move "outward" as much as the 1% barrier will allow us.

Talos' point is that as long as he survives to about 450 numbers bet upon, he will obtain a hit; surviving means keeping the costs as low as possible.

So I think he starts with an EC because it is the least expensive & he moves to 2 DZ because the ratio allows him to afford it but THEN we need to choose a selection that fits the MBA criteria; what are you using?
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: jerome26b on February 19, 2017, 08:59:06 PM
Our actions need to be based on the 1:60 ratio combined with winning in at least 5-6 hits AND the MBA which represents a certain X bet amount figure in relation to the bankroll (I suggest 1% as an experiment).

So this means our lowering of the bet selection is done when the bet amount rises higher than the "1%" and we "move inward" only as much as necessary to bet lower than the 1%.  That same principle applies in raising the bet selection; we move "outward" as much as the 1% barrier will allow us.

Talos' point is that as long as he survives to about 450 numbers bet upon, he will obtain a hit; surviving means keeping the costs as low as possible.

So I think he starts with an EC because it is the least expensive & he moves to 2 DZ because the ratio allows him to afford it but THEN we need to choose a selection that fits the MBA criteria; what are you using?
Of course 2 EC then 2D (or any combination of 24 total numbers) until we get our first hit (with a slow progression), don't forget at spin 10 without no hits 228 numbers are played for a balance of 93 units. So it's 2 EC then 24 numbers (played as group) until the first hit. This part is ok since months but yes the difficult part is to know what to do after first hit, reduce directly or reduce depending of some conditions, i will expose these conditions :
Talos always affirmed he was simplified his system and wanted to fasten the game so if the hit arrise quite quickly, let's assume at spin 4 we can be after this hit at -9 even less depending of the main progression, so to fasten the game the best is to not reduce but maybe stay at 24 numbers for one more hit, many times it's passing and game is over. Otherwise you can select to reduce directly and there's the most tricky part, how many numbers playing then ? I simulate with many cases, reducing for example to 6 numbers (i even tried 3 once but rapidly gave up cause it's too long to hit and recover). I tried with 12 and even with EC, i thing good compromise can be 12 but i was more thinking that DrTalos was reducing to 6 quite quickly because of the dilema of CANON 31&32, you remember ? This dilemma can only be solved by playing  6 numbers a number of times...
Sometimes it's working well, of course 12 numbers permit to get a hit faster, and 6 numbers (one DS or 2 streets) is less costly and permit to play more spins. Sometimes you're lucky and got your hit quite quickly without investing a lot and get 9 units at best.  A conclusion i can give to you already to save hours of trials it's not working if you continue like that indefinitely like you can gess easily... If the first hit come late then you need to have the second and third hit quite quickly otherwise your progression is becomming unplayable.
So it's clear at a moment (dicated by the ratio and some "boundaries") if you get no hit you have to raise your selection again to force this second hit. And that's the tricky part, come back to 24 numbers ? to an EC, to 12 or any other combination including split, corner and so on ? Maybe that's the HG is there but i don't think it's so simple and there's a definite solution... If you don't get this second hit faster you are in big trouble (of course playing 24 numbers you will have it at a moment but at which cost). Maybe his system is using progressions into progressions like loop in loop in programmatic language. We know he can involve more than 300 units sometimes, he said once every few days so maybe once every let's say 1000/1500 spins; it means he's trying to keep his balance as low as possible but sometimes it can go quite deep as well. Anyway it's something i understand from the beginning but maybe i'm wrong, i always understand that there's a progression into a progression; there's the progression to catch the first hit playing max 24 numbers then the second progression that is not so far from the parachute in fact except the fact that he's raising the numbers played if no hit at a moment to force this hit.
All of this is theoritical, don't have any idea if it can work, at this moment i assume it work sometimes, many times until the inevitable; it can work with a stop loss but 100% of the time i'm sceptical.
Let's take the worst situation :
- first hit is coming late then we reduce
- second hit is not coming we have to raise again
- second hit is not happening with our raised selection ? what's next i suppose stay until the hit that will come sure at a moment but at which cost ?
- after second hit reduce again but we don't get the third one quickly.

Nothing to do the balance will go down and down to the unrecoverable at a moment. But we know in some situations he's not reducing or raising after hit/miss.

I redirect my last investigations into a more sophisticated pattern that will include several outside bets selection every spin (with maybe differential betting amount bet on some of them).

Jérôme
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: Reyth on February 19, 2017, 10:32:50 PM

Note: I don't think it is necessary to leave the 2 DZ until/unless the MBA demands it; i.e. our bet amount is higher than X (1?)% of the bankroll.

The key is not balloons its spun numbers; we WILL get a hit within about 450 bet numbers and eventually clusters that will aggregate to 5-6 for the full win because normal distribution is 1:37.

That is the key to the Talos system.
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: BlueAngel on February 19, 2017, 11:04:07 PM
You can go back and forth as much as you want, usually you make one step forward and one back, but sometimes one forward and two back...this situation will lead you nowhere unless you reconsider the philosophical question...

Just a hint; think in great analogies/proportions...if.......then how many......?
Imagine yourself rising above the problem like a balloon, the problem becomes smaller and smaller as you drift away higher and higher...
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: DrTalos on February 20, 2017, 01:25:17 AM
Jerome,
I have four casinos in less than an hour from my house, and three more inside a 90 minutes drive. I go in Las Vegas twice a year, and Atlantic City is a nice (not really) spot to play. I love the casinos in Connecticut (probably my favorites) and nowadays you really don't have to chase a place to play, they are building casinos all over the country.
I can see myself living near a place like that, especially for my daughter. I wanna her to grow up in a decent little town, with good school and in a safe place.

Thank you Kav. Some people just aren't able to see over their small boundaries. This thread is exactly the reason for me to coming out and saying what I said. I see players trying their best to reach a goal, I can't understand what is wrong with that.
Real's opinions are the obvious song repeated one more time.
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: jerome26b on February 20, 2017, 11:15:48 AM
DrTalos,

Ok i had really the feeling you were grinding there casino after casino not to stay more than 2-3 days on each one.
Your Max winning by game is really 9 units or can be more ? I mean you said if you hit in specific order your profit can be high. I already understand that the most win you got is one unit.

Jerome
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: BlueAngel on February 20, 2017, 08:03:00 PM
Jerome,
I have four casinos in less than an hour from my house, and three more inside a 90 minutes drive. I go in Las Vegas twice a year, and Atlantic City is a nice (not really) spot to play. I love the casinos in Connecticut (probably my favorites) and nowadays you really don't have to chase a place to play, they are building casinos all over the country.
I can see myself living near a place like that, especially for my daughter. I wanna her to grow up in a decent little town, with good school and in a safe place.

Thank you Kav. Some people just aren't able to see over their small boundaries. This thread is exactly the reason for me to coming out and saying what I said. I see players trying their best to reach a goal, I can't understand what is wrong with that.
Real's opinions are the obvious song repeated one more time.

If you are going to Connecticut you could meet Real, he is living there.
You could even learn from each other, the two of you claim that you are making a living from roulette but on the same time you are like day and night, fire and ice regarding your methods...go figure!
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: Reyth on February 20, 2017, 08:05:40 PM
Real doesn't believe in applied statistical rarity (practical statistics) & Talos does and so does his bank account.

Talos knows well that 0:450 is a once in a lifetime event and even though it is possible, he has profited greatly because of its rarity whereas Real would have us believe that since it IS possible, we will lose and so its better not to try.

If Talos had thought like Real, he would have never discovered his method, which is why Real hasn't and thinks he knows all.
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: Geoffrey on February 20, 2017, 08:23:56 PM
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: BlueAngel on February 20, 2017, 08:31:56 PM
I agree with both of you and here is what's REAL is saying:

Quote
It only takes a little logic, common sense, and math to prove that the system is silly.

1. The same number pockets remain on the wheel from one spin to the next.
2. Therefore the odds of winning does not change from one spin to the next.
3. The house payoff is short.

I'm sure you have already heard it before but sorry, this is the best I can do.
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: Reyth on February 20, 2017, 08:48:51 PM
"The HE eclipses player winnings" is such a cynical concept.  It is a veiled version of his "divide by 2 until you reach 0" troll.  It is so easy to conceptually destroy these arguments.  We have been doing it for years now.  Our arguments have grown in strength and depth whereas his remain the same old boring platitudes.  He chose to give up on roulette and declare himself all knowing and wise, we know its at least possible to beat roulette, and some of us have already done it while the rest of us refuse to give up like he did.
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: Real on February 20, 2017, 10:49:15 PM
Reyth,

I have handily proven your comments foolish and inaccurate.  In the past I have provided the math as well.

Regarding Talos...one of us is a hobby player and the other is a professional.  You can decide which one to believe.

FYI... pros don't try and win only 9 units per day. Lol.

Blue,

I don't live in Connecticut.  Right now, I'm in Gizmo/Talos/Gray's back yard.  (Nevada)(Yes, they're all Gizmo.)

Gizmo/Talos

We are getting dumped on again tonight (Weather)
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: Reyth on February 21, 2017, 10:57:57 AM

*whips out hand fan*
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: DrTalos on February 23, 2017, 02:07:50 AM
Nine units a day... Ahahahahah!
If you could win as much as I do, you would be here bragging at any posts, saying how much you are way smarter than all of us combined, oh... you already do that, without winnings...

Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: Real on February 23, 2017, 02:54:30 AM
Dr. Talos,

I'm in Reno tonight, feel free to come prove that you're not full of shist. ;)

Again, nine units isn't dirt.

I have your number, should I call?

Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: Reyth on February 24, 2017, 11:31:11 AM
Surely the important ratio is bet/Bankroll. The larger this ratio the more chance the punter has of staying in the game. The longer he stays in the game the better his chance of getting a favourable variance.

It is a mistake to accept the math attitude that every variance MUST favour the House. With a good bet selection and an adequate B/R. The unfavourable  variations can be "aborted", while those favourable are exploited.

Harry
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: Reyth on February 28, 2017, 05:29:19 PM

1) This is a professional gambling system being taught by a professional gambler.
2) The mental "click" that we are supposed to get is not a one-time event but an ongoing learning process; a "whirr", if you will.
3) The following animated gifs are REQUIRED to succeed:

(https://media.giphy.com/media/b7pUagyLHNVKM/giphy.gif)

(https://forum.roulette30.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F2.bp.blogspot.com%2F-TYXAaOfd_rI%2FU3khaLJKAgI%2FAAAAAAAABhg%2FmFS1WgtcMNE%2Fs1600%2F5zawdmihw131ubpljyzpfo74i.320x240x49.gif&hash=6858f1e8eb6da8d8c4c29a21ddc18546)

(https://forum.roulette30.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FIQOqx1X.gif&hash=8228c58bc32461d2bce7a91a5e9bfd1a)

And in that order!

4) We must learn to be simultaneously ruthless, conservative & ruthless, executing expert timing repeatedly until the wheel submits to 1:60.

5) We have to believe to our core in the power of the ratios; truly believe (under pressure) that only the total numbers bet matter.  Its like we have to become blind men that can only specify how many numbers to bet and the bet amounts.

LLLLWLLLLLLLWLWLLLWW <===1:3 W/L RATIO! (65*3=195, very close to 1:3)

Here is a short one:

12-DZ+DZ loss  29  1 : 108 / 1  54
11-EC loss  59  1 : 126 / 2  53
11-EC loss  89  1 : 144 / 2  52
11-EC loss  134  1 : 162 / 2  50
10-DZ WIN  66  2 : 174 / 1  53
10-DZ loss  99  2 : 186 / 2  52
11-EC WIN  49  3 : 204 / 1  54
11-EC loss  99  3 : 222 / 1  52
10-DZ WIN -1  4 : 234 / 0  56

LLLLLLLLWLWLW <=== 1:3 once again!

The ratio pulls upward while the MBA pulls downward; this forces us to change our bet selection; if we "can't afford it", we must bet a smaller selection.  Its kind of like having a budget.

(https://forum.roulette30.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fstream1.gifsoup.com%2Fview6%2F20150205%2F5170645%2Ftug-of-war-o.gif&hash=ff668b1739e23a1594f6599360a87fab)
Pulling money from the roulette wheel

When we get a hit, the ratio is able to pull more strongly and the longer we don't get a hit, the more strongly the MBA is able to pull.

It is very much like a Paroli except instead of trying to achieve magnified profit, we are simply trying to get +1 unit by throwing our winnings at the wheel, just like the giant stones in the Star Trek gif.  In that respect it is like Oscar's Grind but this system is adaptable in its approach to betting when both losing and winning, where Oscar's Grind does not adjust itself to betting conditions when losing and is one-dimensional in its bet sizing when winning, which is quite dangerous and why it gets overwhelmed.

I must not forget that there is a distinct possibility that the MBA might benefit from being adjustable too.  This can be investigated by taking 1400 units and running the MBA out over as many losing bets in a row will fit; if we find less than 225 bets, we need to consider how to adjust the MBA as we go.  Remember that there must be guaranteed hits along the way and although I would be tempted to set those hits at 450 (numbers bet) intervals, I think its pretty clear that Talos is using 300 spins:

Quote from: TALOS CANON 59
If you select a number, you can select just the one that will not show itself for 300 spins. It is hard but can happen. Will be a lot more unusual that after that the second number you select will go for other 300, and after that the third you play, and the forth, and so on and so forth. Mathematically can happen, but in your lifetime it won't. Some of them you will hit in the first three/four spins.
So, my idea is just rely on that consideration, keeping my outstanding balance low enough to not get crazy, and playing for enough spins to let the variance work a little in my favor.

Here is an example of a unrealistically harsh test session that I was able to take out to 61 spins before making a betting error:

11-EC loss  1  0 : 18 / 1  55
11-EC loss  3  0 : 36 / 1  55
12-DZ+DZ loss  11  0 : 60 / 2  55
12-DZ+DZ loss  15  0 : 84 / 2  55
12-DZ+DZ loss  21  0 : 108 / 2  55
12-DZ+DZ loss  29  0 : 132 / 3  54
12-DZ+DZ loss  39  0 : 156 / 3  54
12-DZ+DZ loss  53  0 : 180 / 4  53
12-DZ+DZ loss  71  0 : 204 / 4  53
12-DZ+DZ loss  95  0 : 228 / 4  52
12-DZ+DZ loss  143  0 : 252 / 5  50
11-EC loss  172  0 : 270 / 5  49
11-EC loss  207  0 : 288 / 5  47
11-EC WIN  165  1 : 306 / 5  49
11-EC loss  199  1 : 324 / 5  48
11-EC loss  239  1 : 342 / 5  46
10-DZ loss  263  1 : 354 / 5  45
10-DZ loss  289  1 : 366 / 6  44
10-DZ loss  313  1 : 378 / 6  43
10-DZ loss  339  1 : 390 / 6  42
10-DZ loss  367  1 : 402 / 6  41
10-DZ loss  398  1 : 414 / 6  40
10-DZ loss  431  1 : 426 / 7  38
10-DZ loss  467  1 : 438 / 7  37
9-DS+Quad loss  497  1 : 448 / 7  36
9-DS+Quad loss  528  1 : 458 / 7  34
9-DS+Quad loss  562  1 : 468 / 7  33
8-DS+Street loss  594  1 : 477 / 7  32
7-DS+Split loss  625  1 : 485 / 8  31
6-Quad+Split loss  646  1 : 491 / 8  30
6-Quad+Split loss  667  1 : 497 / 8  29
6-Quad+Split loss  690  1 : 503 / 8  28
6-Quad+Split loss  713  1 : 509 / 8  27
6-Quad+Split loss  737  1 : 515 / 8  26
6-Quad+Split loss  761  1 : 521 / 8  25
6-Quad+Split loss  786  1 : 527 / 8  24
4-Quad loss  802  1 : 531 / 8  23
4-Quad loss  818  1 : 535 / 8  23
4-Quad loss  835  1 : 539 / 8  22
4-Quad loss  852  1 : 543 / 9  21
4-Quad loss  869  1 : 547 / 9  21
4-Quad loss  887  1 : 551 / 9  20
4-Quad loss  905  1 : 555 / 9  19
4-Quad loss  923  1 : 559 / 9  19
4-Quad loss  942  1 : 563 / 9  18
3-Street loss  956  1 : 566 / 9  17
3-Street loss  970  1 : 569 / 9  17
3-Street loss  984  1 : 572 / 9  16
3-Street loss  999  1 : 575 / 9  16
3-Street loss  1014  1 : 578 / 9  15
3-Street loss  1029  1 : 581 / 9  14
1-Split loss  1039  1 : 583 / 9  14
1-Split loss  1049  1 : 585 / 9  14
1-Split loss  1059  1 : 587 / 9  13
1-Split loss  1069  1 : 589 / 9  13
1-Split loss  1079  1 : 591 / 9  12
1-Split loss  1089  1 : 593 / 9  12
1-Split loss  1099  1 : 595 / 9  12
1-Split loss  1109  1 : 597 / 9  11
1-Split loss  1119  1 : 599 / 9  11
1-Split WIN  932  2 : 601 / ?  ? <=== betting error

Interesting to note that the ratio actually called for a divisor of 9 (even though I didn't stop betting with a divisor of 6).

I think the last hit would not be able to repeat in a cycle of 300 numbers and thus would be forced to "artificially" hit once the MBA equalled the cost of the 6 divisor.  This would cause a loop until the bankroll was exhausted, which will be 281 units.

If I was able to take the divisor up to 9 and beyond, I could loop more hits and maybe 225 spins would be attainable?  :shrug:

Here is an actual heck session and not one that I just made up.  My faith WAS tested and I held out to the end and watched Talos win after he hunkered down to survive the worst:

81 Spins From Heck

12-DZ+DZ loss  38  1 : 132 / 2  54
11-EC loss  77  1 : 150 / 2  52
11-EC loss  116  1 : 168 / 2  51
10-DZ loss  145  1 : 180 / 3  50
11-EC WIN  96  2 : 198 / 2  52
11-EC loss  145  2 : 216 / 2  50
10-DZ loss  181  2 : 228 / 2  48
10-DZ loss  226  2 : 240 / 3  46
10-DZ loss  264  2 : 252 / 3  45
10-DZ loss  308  2 : 264 / 3  43
9-DS+Quad loss  347  2 : 274 / 3  42
8-DS+Street loss  387  2 : 283 / 3  40
7-DS+Split loss  427  2 : 291 / 3  38
6-Quad+Split loss  455  2 : 297 / 3  37
6-Quad+Split loss  485  2 : 303 / 4  36
6-Quad+Split loss  509  2 : 309 / 4  35
6-Quad+Split loss  535  2 : 315 / 4  34
6-Quad+Split loss  562  2 : 321 / 4  33
6-Quad+Split loss  590  2 : 327 / 4  32
6-Quad+Split loss  620  2 : 333 / 4  31
6-Quad+Split loss  651  2 : 339 / 4  29
4-Quad loss  671  2 : 343 / 4  29
4-Quad loss  692  2 : 347 / 4  28
4-Quad loss  713  2 : 351 / 4  27
4-Quad loss  735  2 : 355 / 4  26
4-Quad loss  758  2 : 359 / 4  25
4-Quad loss  781  2 : 363 / 5  24
4-Quad loss  800  2 : 367 / 5  24
4-Quad loss  820  2 : 371 / 5  23
4-Quad loss  840  2 : 375 / 5  22
4-Quad loss  861  2 : 379 / 5  21
4-Quad loss  882  2 : 383 / 5  20
3-Street WIN  0  3 : 386 / 4  56
7-DS+Split loss  761  3 : 394 / 4  25
4-Quad loss  784  3 : 398 / 4  24
4-Quad loss  808  3 : 402 / 4  23
3-Street loss  826  3 : 405 / 4  22
3-Street loss  844  3 : 408 / 4  22
3-Street loss  863  3 : 411 / 4  21
3-Street loss  882  3 : 414 / 4  20
3-Street loss  902  3 : 417 / 4  19
1-Split loss  915  3 : 419 / 4  19
1-Split loss  928  3 : 421 / 5  18
1-Split loss  941  3 : 423 / 5  18
1-Split loss  954  3 : 425 / 5  17
3-Street WIN  767  4 : 428 / 4  25
4-Quad WIN  575  5 : 432 / 3  33
4-Quad loss  599  5 : 436 / 3  32
4-Quad loss  624  5 : 440 / 3  31
4-Quad loss  650  5 : 444 / 3  30
4-Quad loss  677  5 : 448 / 3  28
4-Quad loss  705  5 : 452 / 3  27
3-Street loss  726  5 : 455 / 3  26
3-Street WIN  484  6 : 458 / 2  36
4-Quad loss  514  6 : 462 / 2  35
4-Quad loss  546  6 : 466 / 2  34
4-Quad loss  580  6 : 470 / 2  32
3-Street loss  606  6 : 473 / 2  31
3-Street loss  633  6 : 476 / 2  30
3-Street loss  661  6 : 479 / 2  29
2-Split+SU loss  690  6 : 482 / 3  28
4-Quad loss  718  6 : 486 / 3  27
3-Street loss  739  6 : 489 / 3  26
3-Street loss  761  6 : 492 / 3  25
3-Street loss  784  6 : 495 / 3  24
3-Street WIN  531  7 : 498 / 2  34
4-Quad loss  564  7 : 502 / 2  33
3-Street loss  589  7 : 505 / 2  32
3-Street loss  615  7 : 508 / 2  31
3-Street loss  643  7 : 511 / 2  30
3-Street loss  672  7 : 514 / 2  29
1-Split loss  691  7 : 516 / 2  28
1-Split loss  711  7 : 518 / 2  27
1-Split loss  731  7 : 520 / 2  26
1-Split WIN  374  8 : 522 / 1  41
3-Street loss  408  8 : 525 / 1  39
3-Street loss  445  8 : 528 / 1  38
1-Split loss  471  8 : 530 / 1  37
1-Split loss  498  8 : 532 / 1  36
1-Split loss  527  8 : 534 / 1  34
1-Split loss  558  8 : 536 / 1  33

LLLLLWLLLLWLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLWLLLLLLLLLLLLWWLLLLLLWLLLLLLLLLLLWLLLLLLLLWLLLLLLW

Dr. Talos survived 72 losses and only 9 wins (9:538)!!!  Not at any time was he more than 5 wins away from profit!!!  The debt never even reached 1000 units.

(https://a.fastcompany.net/multisite_files/codesign/imagecache/inline-large/post-inline/tumblr_lex3s2CgQN1qe0eclo1_r9_500.gif)

(https://forum.roulette30.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi67.tinypic.com%2F2zzm3cp.jpg&hash=c3f69a2c7ef4eb4897c532767cdf19f2)
37:150 (vs. worst expected 25:150)

We can see the culprit here in the 1st Dozen but as Talos is trying to teach us, it doesn't matter which numbers we play, the wheel is going to hit our bets within the ratios

When I saw the 1st Dozen take several hits in a short period, I switched out to the rest of the board and got the rest of my hits.  Does it mean I was wrong for doing this?  No, we can still use any selection method we want, as long is its the right bet selection TYPE.

Now do I think I have everything perfect and I am HG?  No, I think there is some tweaking left to do but it is pretty clear that I finally now got the mechanics in place at least.

In order to make the final tweak(s), I am going to have to dig really deep and try and understand exactly how the hit:bet numbers (HBN) and Max Bet Allowed (MBA) ratios really work so that I can optimize them; maybe even harmonize them so they work better based on conditions.

One thing I am pretty sure of is that I am betting more aggresively than Talos in the beginning of the game because I deliberately exceed the bet called for by the ratio and instead bet the largest amount the MBA will allow to cancel the debt in 1 spin; I calm down as soon as the ratio calls for 2 bets and I cannot find any 1 spin options that the MBA will let me afford.

I am pretty sure that Talos adheres to the ratio even in the beginning, which means he is willing to accept a segmenting of the debt into 2 pieces.

This also means that I hit the "bottom of the barrel" sooner than Talos does because the bankroll balance (which the MBA is based on) is reduced farther sooner and so it pulls us down faster in the face of extended loss streaks like we saw in that last game.

So maybe one easy thing I can do is just accept the debt segmenting when the ratio calls for it even though I can "afford" a single debt closure bet under the MBA.

See, its easy to think: "Its better to bet large in the more high percentage bets to prevent loss streaks from developing" but on second thought, it seems apparent that: "Its better to save your bankroll IN CASE you have an extended loss streak so that the MBA doesn't pull you down too far too fast; because you actually get more percentage "bang for your buck" if you let the ratios proceed more slowly.

Here is a couple of games where I slow down the initial betting & let Talos teach me how its done:

12-DZ+DZ WIN  8  2 : 156 / 1  55
12-DZ+DZ loss  26  2 : 180 / 2  54
12-DZ+DZ WIN  12  3 : 204 / 1  55 <=== refrain from betting for the whole debt
12-DZ+DZ WIN -1  4 : 228 / 0  56  <=== let 2 DZ do its job

12-DZ+DZ loss  50  1 : 180 / 3  54
12-DZ+DZ WIN  33  2 : 204 / 2  54 <=== accept the power of 2 DZ
12-DZ+DZ WIN  16  3 : 228 / 1  55 <=== segment the debt
12-DZ+DZ WIN -1  4 : 252 / 1  56   <=== into 3 sections

Here is a nice mid-size recovery:

12-DZ+DZ loss  35  1 : 156 / 2  54
12-DZ+DZ loss  71  1 : 180 / 3  53
12-DZ+DZ WIN  47  2 : 204 / 2  54 <=== segmenting the debt
12-DZ+DZ WIN  23  3 : 228 / 1  55 <=== into 3 sections
12-DZ+DZ loss  71  3 : 252 / 2  53  <=== instead of closing the session
11-EC loss  107  3 : 270 / 2  51
10-DZ loss  134  3 : 282 / 2  50
10-DZ loss  168  3 : 294 / 2  49
10-DZ loss  210  3 : 306 / 3  47
10-DZ WIN  140  4 : 318 / 2  50
10-DZ loss  175  4 : 330 / 2  49
10-DZ loss  219  4 : 342 / 2  47
9-DS+Quad loss  261  4 : 352 / 2  45
8-DS+Street WIN  116  5 : 361 / 2  51 <=== late hit failed to improve the ratio
10-DZ loss  145  5 : 373 / 2  50
10-DZ loss  181  5 : 385 / 2  48
10-DZ loss  226  5 : 397 / 2  46
9-DS+Quad loss  270  5 : 407 / 2  45
7-DS+Split loss  312  5 : 415 / 2  43
6-Quad+Split loss  343  5 : 421 / 3  42 <=== lost our momentum
8-DS+Street loss  382  5 : 430 / 3  40
7-DS+Split WIN  230  6 : 438 / 2  46
9-DS+Quad WIN  131  7 : 448 / 1  50 <=== FINISH HIM!
8-DS+Street loss  177  7 : 457 / 1  48  <===
6-Quad+Split loss  213  7 : 463 / 1  47 <===
6-Quad+Split loss  256  7 : 469 / 1  45  <===
4-Quad loss  288  7 : 473 / 1  44  <=== our bankroll is used
4-Quad loss  324  7 : 477 / 1  43  <=== as leverage
4-Quad WIN -1  8 : 481 / 1  56  <=== we don't need much to end it with a Quad

LLWWLLLLLWLLLWLLLLLLLWWLLLLLW 7:22 <=== AGAIN 1:3!!!

This is more of a "normal" recovery picture and is a great demonstration of continually betting a certain piece of felt until it comes in (the Quad); this is the Pivot technique with the proper bet sizing & selection.  We don't lose those sections of the felt that we keep betting, even though we shrink the selection, and of course we never lose the HNB ratio, no matter what we bet.

A very important point about how I have this configured is that Talos' MBA has yet to ever require him to bet less than 6 numbers but yet even with his worst session, his debt never climbed above 600 units.

This may mean I need to bump the MBA up a notch; the very counter-intuitive thing about it is that it might actually be costing me more bankroll to "over-shrink" the selection as opposed to allowing a larger bet sizing to accomodate larger bet selections and thus higher percentages to hit.

2-DZ+DZ loss  29  1 : 108 / 1  54
11-EC loss  59  1 : 126 / 2  53
11-EC loss  89  1 : 144 / 2  52
11-EC loss  134  1 : 162 / 2  50
10-DZ loss  168  1 : 174 / 2  49
10-DZ loss  210  1 : 186 / 3  47
10-DZ loss  245  1 : 198 / 3  46
10-DZ loss  286  1 : 210 / 3  44
9-DS+Quad loss  323  1 : 220 / 3  43
9-DS+Quad loss  365  1 : 230 / 3  41
7-DS+Split loss  402  1 : 238 / 3  39
6-Quad+Split loss  429  1 : 244 / 4  38
8-DS+Street loss  466  1 : 253 / 4  37
7-DS+Split loss  502  1 : 261 / 4  35
6-Quad+Split loss  527  1 : 267 / 4  34
6-Quad+Split loss  553  1 : 273 / 4  33
6-Quad+Split loss  580  1 : 279 / 4  32
6-Quad+Split loss  609  1 : 285 / 4  31
6-Quad+Split loss  639  1 : 291 / 4  30
4-Quad loss  659  1 : 295 / 4  29 <=== woah what a loss streak!
9-DS+Quad WIN  528  2 : 325 / 4  34  <=== very
6-Quad+Split WIN  411  3 : 331 / 3  39 <=== nice cluster
7-DS+Split loss  438  3 : 339 / 3  38
6-Quad+Split WIN  279  4 : 345 / 2  44 <=== of wins
7-DS+Split loss  322  4 : 353 / 2  43
6-Quad+Split loss  355  4 : 359 / 2  41
6-Quad+Split loss  391  4 : 365 / 3  40 <=== tight leash runs out
7-DS+Split loss  431  4 : 373 / 3  38
6-Quad+Split WIN  298  5 : 379 / 2  44
6-Quad+Split loss  328  5 : 385 / 2  42
6-Quad+Split loss  361  5 : 391 / 2  41
6-Quad+Split WIN  172  6 : 397 / 1  49 <=== go for the kill!
6-Quad+Split loss  206  6 : 403 / 1  47
6-Quad+Split loss  247  6 : 409 / 1  46
4-Quad loss  278  6 : 413 / 1  44
4-Quad loss  312  6 : 417 / 1  43
4-Quad loss  351  6 : 421 / 2  41 <=== doesn't make it
6-Quad+Split WIN  162  7 : 427 / 1  49  <=== 2nd try!
6-Quad+Split loss  195  7 : 433 / 1  48
6-Quad+Split loss  235  7 : 439 / 1  46
4-Quad loss  264  7 : 443 / 1  45
4-Quad loss  297  7 : 447 / 1  44
4-Quad loss  334  7 : 451 / 1  42
4-Quad loss  375  7 : 455 / 1  41
3-Street loss  409  7 : 458 / 1  39
3-Street WIN -1  8 : 461 / 0  56 <=== HA!

LLLLWLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLWWLWLLLLWLLWLLLLLWLLLLLLLW 8:43

Its amazing sitting on a quad or street knowing that you have so much money in the bankroll and 1 hit will immediately end the game with at least +1; it just feels amazing.

11-EC loss  59  1 : 126 / 2  53 <=== Chop
11-EC WIN  29  2 : 144 / 1  54 <=== EC BET
11-EC loss  59  2 : 162 / 1  53  <=== 30 units
10-DZ loss  89  2 : 174 / 1  52
10-DZ loss  134  2 : 186 / 2  50
10-DZ loss  168  2 : 198 / 2  49
10-DZ loss  210  2 : 210 / 2  47
9-DS+Quad loss  251  2 : 220 / 2  45 <=== shrinking the selection
8-DS+Street loss  294  2 : 229 / 2  44 <=== to maximize the time
6-Quad+Split WIN  162  3 : 235 / 1  49 <=== that we maintain 2 wins to victory
7-DS+Split loss  211  3 : 243 / 2  47  <=== extremely short leash due to late hit
9-DS+Quad loss  252  3 : 253 / 2  45
8-DS+Street WIN  109  4 : 262 / 1  51
10-DZ WIN -1 <=== large DZ bet to end it on an aggressive note

Attacking the debt relentlessly at specific times and at specific levels.
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: Real on February 28, 2017, 06:39:34 PM
Quote
1) This is a professional gambling system being taught by a professional gambler.

Talos is not a professional gambler.
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: Reyth on February 28, 2017, 06:59:08 PM

*whips out hand fan*
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: BlueAngel on February 28, 2017, 07:06:52 PM
I'd like to offer my ''two cents'' and perhaps some they could turn them into a ''quarter'' or even more.

How about making the 1/60 ratio into 1/72 ?
How about aiming for a single win for every 72 numbers bet, the point is not only to extend the length but also to add variety on our betting selections.

Therefore 8 different sets/levels of 72 numbers }

2 dozens or columns, 1 win out of 3 trials (24 numbers x 3 trials = 72 numbers) when lose move to the next level.

An EC, 2 wins out of 4 trials (18 numbers x 4 trials = 72 numbers) when lose move to the next level.

A dozen or a column, 3 wins out of 6 trials (12 numbers x 6 trials = 72 numbers) when lose move to the next level.

A line, 4 wins out of 12 trials (6 numbers x 12 trials = 72 numbers) when lose move to the next level.

A corner, 5 wins out of 18 trials (4 numbers x 18 trials = 72 numbers) when lose move to the next level.

A street, 6 wins out of 24 trials (3 numbers x 24 trials = 72 numbers) when lose move to the next level.

A split, 7 wins out of 36 trials (2 numbers x 36 trials = 72 numbers) when lose move to the next level.

A number, 8 wins out of 72 trials (1 number x 72 trials = 72 numbers)

That's a total of 175 trials in order to reach a net profit at any point during those 175 bets.
You are not betting necessarily all, but up to a maximum of 175, the count of trials doesn't stop, the only thing which changes is the amount you have to bet.

To calculate accurately how much is going to be your next wager divide your negative balance (if any) by the payout of your current bet selection and divide it again by the total wins according your current level.
I'm leaving the selection of which bet sections up to you.

There is also another variation but needs more time and money }

30 numbers for 12 spins (30 x 12 = 360) 30 numbers might be 5 lines or H/L and 1st/3rd dozen.
24 numbers for 15 spins (24 x 15 = 360)
18 numbers for 20 spins (18 x 20 = 360)
12 numbers for 30 spins (12 x 30 = 360)
6 numbers for 60 spins (6 x 60 = 360)
4 numbers for 90 spins (4 x 90 = 360)
3 numbers for 120 spins (3 x 120 = 360)
2 numbers for 180 spins (2 x 180 = 360)
1 number for 360 spins (1 x 360 = 360)

Since 360 is 5 times 72, we aim for 5 wins per 360 level, fail to achieve these 5 wins then transfer the ''due'' wins to the next level.

Let that be the initiation and inspiration to craft our HG without the need for anyone telling us what's he doing (or not...)
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: Reyth on February 28, 2017, 07:17:04 PM
(https://media.giphy.com/media/10xZU9b7JBx14s/giphy.gif)

Awesome post Blue!  It makes me think about the mechanics behind Talos' method more deeply.  It does seem to me like a very special kind of Pivot bet which I think you have recognized too.
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: BlueAngel on February 28, 2017, 07:33:01 PM
(https://media.giphy.com/media/10xZU9b7JBx14s/giphy.gif)

Awesome post Blue!  It makes me think about the mechanics behind Talos' method more deeply.  It does seem to me like a very special kind of Pivot bet which I think you have recognized too.

It's like a pivot magnifier!:-)
It could be the base for a long term winning method, you may call it ''ROULETTE 360''.

I would like you to know that my brain has been set automatically to invent systems anytime of the day, any given day of the week, even when I'm sitting on the toilet.
If I was to share each and every single one of them I would need a forum of my own, with exclusive writing rights.
You might laugh but I don't...!
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: scepticus on February 28, 2017, 08:11:13 PM
So you are multi-tasking Blue ? You can sit on the toilet AND work out new systems at the same time  !
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: BlueAngel on February 28, 2017, 08:16:38 PM
So you are multi-tasking Blue ? You can sit on the toilet AND work out new systems at the same time  !

Can't help it, cant turn off the systems switcher!
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: Reyth on March 02, 2017, 05:02:43 PM
(https://media.giphy.com/media/P726XW1pK3Luo/giphy.gif)

1) What if to employ the "guestimate method" we just dropped the 1:60 ratio and only used the MBA to find the best bet selection and used a short cut to determine how many times we split the debt?

2) The ratios also include a payout ratio (bet selection).  So its HNB, MBA & PR.  All of these combine to basically determine the unit sizing so that the bankroll is split the minimum number of times in order to gain profit.  The bet selection is nothing more than a payout ratio (PR), not felted numbers.  Its the HNB that pays out not the felted numbers.

These thoughts lead to my thinking about making a "new" game that doesn't have a bet selection but only payout ratios; its a game of pure math.  Now I just have to figure out a way to display all these figures to show the flow of how everything works.  By making this "new" game, I will understand how the ratios work much better & I will be better able to see how to create the shortcuts to calculation that eventually lead to "eyeballing & guestimating" the 1:60 ratio; the bet selection on the felt just confuses my perception of and obscures, the mechanics.  When I try to figure it all out now, my brain just hurts.

Kind of interesting, makes me think of roulette like its horse racing instead; we're just backing horses with names like "Quad Runner" or "Straight Up" (a long shot).

The formula to calculate the bet amount is:

((debt/divisor)+1)/payout

The formula to calculate the divisor is:

((numbers bet/60)+1)-hits obtained

All decimals are rounded down.

The MBA is a static percentage multiplied against the current balance where the cap to that balance is assumed to be 1400 units (profit does not increase our bet sizing).  No bet amounts may exceed the MBA figure; i.e. decrease the bet selection (PR) cost, until it is less than or equal to the MBA.

The payout is known and clear for the following bet selections:

A short one:

12-DZ+DZ WIN  21  2 : 204 / 2  55
12-DZ+DZ loss  43  2 : 228 / 2  54
12-DZ+DZ loss  87  2 : 252 / 3  52
11-EC WIN  57  3 : 270 / 2  53
11-EC loss  86  3 : 288 / 2  52  <=== EC chop
11-EC loss  130  3 : 306 / 3  50  <===
11-EC WIN  86  4 : 324 / 2  52  <===
11-EC loss  130  4 : 342 / 2  50  <===
10-DZ WIN  64  5 : 354 / 1  53  <=== MBA reduces bet selection
10-DZ loss  96  5 : 366 / 2  52
11-EC loss  145  5 : 384 / 2  50
10-DZ WIN  73  6 : 396 / 1  53
10-DZ WIN -1

12-DZ+DZ loss  29  1 : 108 / 1  54
11-EC loss  59  1 : 126 / 2  53
11-EC WIN  29  2 : 144 / 1  54
11-EC loss  59  2 : 162 / 1  53
10-DZ loss  89  2 : 174 / 1  52
10-DZ loss  134  2 : 186 / 2  50
10-DZ WIN  66  3 : 198 / 1  53
12-DZ+DZ loss  99  3 : 222 / 1  52 <=== nice bet selection increase
10-DZ loss  149  3 : 234 / 1  50
7-DS+Split WIN  33  4 : 242 / 1  54
11-EC loss  67  4 : 260 / 1  53 <=== bet selection increase
10-DZ loss  101  4 : 272 / 1  51
10-DZ WIN -1

12-DZ+DZ loss  29  1 : 108 / 1  54
11-EC loss  59  1 : 126 / 2  53
11-EC loss  89  1 : 144 / 2  52
11-EC loss  134  1 : 162 / 2  50
10-DZ loss  168  1 : 174 / 2  49
10-DZ loss  210  1 : 186 / 3  47
10-DZ loss  245  1 : 198 / 3  46
10-DZ WIN  163  2 : 210 / 2  49
10-DZ loss  204  2 : 222 / 2  47
9-DS+Quad loss  243  2 : 232 / 2  46
8-DS+Street loss  285  2 : 241 / 3  44
9-DS+Quad loss  322  2 : 251 / 3  43
9-DS+Quad loss  364  2 : 261 / 3  41
7-DS+Split WIN  275  3 : 269 / 2  45
7-DS+Split loss  317  3 : 277 / 2  43
6-Quad+Split loss  348  3 : 283 / 2  42
6-Quad+Split loss  383  3 : 289 / 2  40
6-Quad+Split WIN  179  4 : 295 / 1  48

Even though I know my ratios are not in synch with Talos, I am really enjoying how this system recovers, again and again without fail (so far).

I JUST DOUBLED MY BANK!

(https://m.popkey.co/4e9a88/bgwjr.gif)

Granted, this is not necessarily cause for celebration yet, as I have done this with four different systems (Simple Street, Turbo Genius, SSB, 12x7) already but it does show that there is some solidity to the current method as badly flawed methods will tend to fail before being able to double.

I would consider doubling three times as something indicative of more than just relative safety.

I completed the equivalent of 20 sessions of 70 units profit each, for a total of 1452 units profit, one unit at a time (with the exception of some recovery coups that must exceed the single unit due to the ratios).
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: Sheridan44 on March 02, 2017, 06:42:56 PM
Have always agreed that anything like a 'progression' should be in the payout, not the bet amount....working within the confines of expectancy.
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: Reyth on March 03, 2017, 05:07:56 PM
(https://forum.roulette30.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fguides.gamepressure.com%2Fdeusexmankinddivided%2Fgfx%2Fword%2F107176056.jpg&hash=c485bdd6448f709fc09b8621d06e383c)

Quote from: Dr. Talos
At first I concentrated primarily on the ways augmentation technology could improve the lives of the impoverished and downtrodden, but already in those relatively early days prejudice was spreading, and so my duties soon expanded to include campaigning for lower Neuropozyne costs and raising awareness of anti-Aug discrimination.

Can he remain free from the masters that hide in the shadows!?  If he is not careful Real may poison him!
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: BlueAngel on March 03, 2017, 06:55:28 PM
(https://forum.roulette30.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fguides.gamepressure.com%2Fdeusexmankinddivided%2Fgfx%2Fword%2F107176056.jpg&hash=c485bdd6448f709fc09b8621d06e383c)

Quote from: Dr. Talos
At first I concentrated primarily on the ways augmentation technology could improve the lives of the impoverished and downtrodden, but already in those relatively early days prejudice was spreading, and so my duties soon expanded to include campaigning for lower Neuropozyne costs and raising awareness of anti-Aug discrimination.

Can he remain free from the masters that hide in the shadows!?  If he is not careful Real may poison him!

Amounts without selection are power without direction...
What is the power of the sword without the hand which wields it...?

You are like blind who wonders in the dark, while trying to catch someone within your reach, this someone most likely is not next to you because the space around you is much greater than what your hands could reach, but this is what a blind man could do.
First you have to locate your target before you reach it.

The best snipers don't waste bullets, they aim for high accuracy instead of spitting out a load of bullets hoping that one of those would hit their target.

By the way, the figure in the picture looks like the actor Liam Neeson but the message and the quote below don't make any sense to me.
I think you need 90 degrees turn, just my opinion.
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: Sheridan44 on March 03, 2017, 07:04:32 PM
I look at Real as sort of the "circuit breaker" of the forum. In a sense perhaps that is helpful...that we not get too swept away with our emotional "fantasies". As far as the "crude" ways he communicates this.......C'mon guys....Real is Real...should we expect anything different? LOL
I for one look forward to his posts.....they may be this or that....but seldom are they dull....LOL.

Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: BlueAngel on March 03, 2017, 07:31:33 PM
I look at Real as sort of the "circuit breaker" of the forum. In a sense perhaps that is helpful...that we not get too swept away with our emotional "fantasies". As far as the "crude" ways he communicates this.......C'mon guys....Real is Real...should we expect anything different? LOL
I for one look forward to his posts.....they may be this or that....but seldom are they dull....LOL.

I agree, he's good counterbalance and as a bonus, sometimes even funny!:-)

Competition and necessity awakes motivation and this leads to progress in all fields of life.
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: Reyth on March 03, 2017, 08:25:21 PM
12-DZ+DZ loss  29  1 : 108 / 1  54
11-EC loss  59  1 : 126 / 2  53
11-EC loss  89  1 : 144 / 2  52
11-EC loss  134  1 : 162 / 2  50
10-DZ loss  168  1 : 174 / 2  49
10-DZ loss  210  1 : 186 / 3  47
10-DZ loss  245  1 : 198 / 3  46
10-DZ loss  286  1 : 210 / 3  44
9-DS+Quad loss  323  1 : 220 / 3  43
9-DS+Quad loss  365  1 : 230 / 3  41 <=== 0:115
7-DS+Split WIN  276  2 : 238 / 2  44
7-DS+Split WIN  114  3 : 246 / 2  51
10-DZ WIN  56  4 : 258 / 1  53
10-DZ loss  84  4 : 270 / 1  52  <=== multiple shots at glory
10-DZ loss  126  4 : 282 / 1  50  <=== make up for the
9-DS+Quad loss  175  4 : 292 / 1  49 <=== reduction in bets
6-Quad+Split loss  211  4 : 298 / 1  47 <=== This is Talos!
6-Quad+Split loss  254  4 : 304 / 2  45
8-DS+Street loss  298  4 : 313 / 2  44
6-Quad+Split loss  328  4 : 319 / 2  42
6-Quad+Split WIN  181  5 : 325 / 1  48 <=== relentless
6-Quad+Split loss  218  5 : 331 / 1  47  <=== assault
6-Quad+Split loss  262  5 : 337 / 1  45 <=== take no
4-Quad loss  294  5 : 341 / 1  44 <=== prisoners
4-Quad loss  330  5 : 345 / 1  42  <=== fly or die!

Quote from: Reyth
...we have to become blind men that can only specify how many numbers to bet and the bet amounts.
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: BlueAngel on March 03, 2017, 08:59:00 PM
12-DZ+DZ loss  29  1 : 108 / 1  54
11-EC loss  59  1 : 126 / 2  53
11-EC loss  89  1 : 144 / 2  52
11-EC loss  134  1 : 162 / 2  50
10-DZ loss  168  1 : 174 / 2  49
10-DZ loss  210  1 : 186 / 3  47
10-DZ loss  245  1 : 198 / 3  46
10-DZ loss  286  1 : 210 / 3  44
9-DS+Quad loss  323  1 : 220 / 3  43
9-DS+Quad loss  365  1 : 230 / 3  41 <=== 0:115
7-DS+Split WIN  276  2 : 238 / 2  44
7-DS+Split WIN  114  3 : 246 / 2  51
10-DZ WIN  56  4 : 258 / 1  53
10-DZ loss  84  4 : 270 / 1  52  <=== multiple shots at glory
10-DZ loss  126  4 : 282 / 1  50  <=== make up for the
9-DS+Quad loss  175  4 : 292 / 1  49 <=== reduction in bets
6-Quad+Split loss  211  4 : 298 / 1  47 <=== This is Talos!
6-Quad+Split loss  254  4 : 304 / 2  45
8-DS+Street loss  298  4 : 313 / 2  44
6-Quad+Split loss  328  4 : 319 / 2  42
6-Quad+Split WIN  181  5 : 325 / 1  48 <=== relentless
6-Quad+Split loss  218  5 : 331 / 1  47  <=== assault
6-Quad+Split loss  262  5 : 337 / 1  45 <=== take no
4-Quad loss  294  5 : 341 / 1  44 <=== prisoners
4-Quad loss  330  5 : 345 / 1  42  <=== fly or die!

Quote from: Reyth
...we have to become blind men that can only specify how many numbers to bet and the bet amounts.

Sorry but this proves nothing, you've just used a progression for 26 results and you won 5 times, can you imagine how much harsher sequence you could encounter?

You have no idea, since your reasoning is to beat EVERY possible sequence with ANY bet selection, may God be with you because luck won't.
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: jerome26b on March 03, 2017, 09:41:47 PM
Hello,

I have to rebound in this topic now,
I completely agree with BA now did you already tried my 4000 real spins with any drTalos like system ? I recommend you to do it. It's going to nowhere. Believe me I did hundreds of simulations with many scheme you are exposing in your last posts. It can work as long as 1500 spins then encounter a failing sequence so not a HG for sure. just be logical in some way it's quite instinctive a system that is reducing at a moment to expect winning in the long term can't work. I can admit staying static with 24 numbers but the fact reducing can lead you to win at the end ? It's beyond not only mathematic but in logical elementary sense at the end. I had always problems in the drTalos stuff following that...
anyway all my last posts bring me to the idea I strongly believe now MrTalos is an imposter in some way, I don't care in any way about his reactions or not now. There's so many contradictions about what he said in the past and I think some other systems can give pretty more wins than The supposed HG he was pretending (doesn't and will never exist anyway)

Jerome
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: Reyth on March 03, 2017, 09:46:17 PM
12-DZ+DZ loss  38  1 : 132 / 2  54
12-DZ+DZ loss  78  1 : 156 / 2  52
11-EC loss  118  1 : 174 / 2  51
10-DZ loss  148  1 : 186 / 3  50
11-EC loss  198  1 : 204 / 3  48 <=== 0:102
10-DZ WIN  132  2 : 216 / 2  50 <=== slow
10-DZ loss  165  2 : 228 / 2  49 <=== &
10-DZ WIN  83  3 : 240 / 2  52  <=== steady
11-EC WIN  41  4 : 258 / 1  54  <=== selection increase
11-EC WIN -1  <=== 1:60 thank you & goodnight

Quote from: Dr. Talos
CANON 11
You need a system that not relays on a magical winning combination.
If you need your number to be hit, you are wandering in a deep dark wood.
What I meant is that your system (in order to be HG) must win no matter the sequence of
numbers the wheel sorts out.  Let me clarify for you one more time. Suppose I am playing
red with my progression. I win. Then, with the same outcomes, same list of numbers,
I play black. The system must win as well, otherwise is not trustfully. That my point.
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: jerome26b on March 03, 2017, 10:00:11 PM
Do your simulations reyth with real spins then come back with the results, its just what I recommend now.

Jerome
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: BlueAngel on March 03, 2017, 10:05:26 PM
Let's face it, it's impossible to beat every possible sequence of results, BUT this doesn't mean that one could not be long term winner.
I've read on other forums too a bunch of nonsense such as that a money management or progression can win regardless of the bet selection and the outcomes.

What's a money management? Another way to say progression, what's a progression?
Isn't the increasing and/or decreasing of amounts after one or more results?

Since you don't know exactly when a win or a loss is going to happen, what's the point?
Actually if we knew, then we wouldn't need progressions at all.

Even if there was a progression which NEVER loses a session and wins 10 unit every session,it still could win less profit from a method which averages 50 units net every second or 100 units net per three sessions.
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: jerome26b on March 03, 2017, 10:25:46 PM
I can't agree more facing your last 2 posts BA you look like a smart and very high knowledgeable man. What I'm figuring out now it's the way you quickly saw the drTalos fallacy stuff at the moment I was not able to see it. means a lot to me and bring me some experience in some way figuring out my way how I was so foul ? I think at this moment nobody sense can still believe the talos story yes ? Just the fact he was refusing my deal was an ultimate check and mate for him. If he's coming again I have many more argument to make him down.

I'm becoming like real, really ?!?
All talos stuff is BS at least the way he explains it here

Jerome.
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: BlueAngel on March 03, 2017, 10:37:09 PM
jerome

Sometimes I agree with Real, I'm wondering how he didn't pop up here already!:-)
Real is like the evil eye which never sleeps, he is always lurking around and intrude, sorry I meant introduce himself to the audience!

Afterall it's all about common sense, let me repeat it once more, there is no progression which wins every possible sequence of results regardless of the bet selection!
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: jerome26b on March 03, 2017, 10:51:53 PM

Afterall it's all about common sense, let me repeat it once more, there is no progression which wins every possible sequence of results regardless of the bet selection!

I agree 100% and by experimenting ...

What I would like now is reth proving with a real spin round that the talos modified scheme he figured out (cause it's not the talos one whatever talos fallacy) can work in real spin series.
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: jerome26b on March 03, 2017, 11:01:39 PM
Sometimes I agree with Real, I'm wondering how he didn't pop up here already!:-)
Real is like the evil eye which never sleeps, he is always lurking around and intrude, sorry I meant introduce himself to the audience!

Afterall it's all about common sense, let me repeat it once more, there is no progression which wins every possible sequence of results regardless of the bet selection!

The talos fallacy was proven by the same way he wanted to prove us his system is winning.
The fact the guy is grinding with an HG wtf ? Nobody will do that and will take the max benefit of it writting a book or using other medias right ? I think I put down talos the day I asked him for a deal and at that point I understand there was nothing than BS.. I used my way but I'm convinced now and I'm moving to other direction. Talos stuff is going to nowhere but it can take time to go to this conclusion. The absence of talos last 10 days on this thread means something for me specially when you are really in focus. Of course I know he will come back one day with good words putting everybody again in some fumes specially reyth (feel no offense but really think about it twice) to believe he's a knowledgeable guy.

Jerome
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: jerome26b on March 03, 2017, 11:16:08 PM
Dr. Talos,

I'm in Reno tonight, feel free to come prove that you're not full of shist. ;)

Again, nine units isn't dirt.

I have your number, should I call?
What happen'ed you saw the HG ? 😜
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: BlueAngel on March 03, 2017, 11:16:54 PM

The ''grinding'' systems have a common characteristic, they are prawn to long and ''dry'' sequences...
Just because are aiming to win every possible sequence, those which are harder force them to bet more and more money for many spins.
Even if they come out on top after 20,54,82,111...spins they have just won 1 unit or so which they were chasing for so many spins by risking unproportional units to what finally got.

Where is the balance between risk and reward?!

Probably unknown meaning for them!
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: Reyth on March 04, 2017, 02:33:05 AM
12-DZ+DZ loss  20  1 : 108 / 1  55
12-DZ+DZ loss  89  1 : 132 / 2  52
11-EC WIN  44  2 : 150 / 1  54
11-EC loss  89  2 : 168 / 1  52
10-DZ loss  134  2 : 180 / 2  50
10-DZ loss  168  2 : 192 / 2  49
10-DZ loss  210  2 : 204 / 2  47
9-DS+Quad WIN  95  3 : 214 / 1  52
10-DZ WIN -1

(https://forum.roulette30.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F68.media.tumblr.com%2F2db9a681085d9aab418d9719fe7b2a09%2Ftumblr_ns7z13NULc1qcy62fo6_250.gif&hash=542b5f6c9f7740b169368ac971750c36)
Quote from: Dr. Talos
I don't care if you believe it or not. You don't know me and I don't know you, so I cannot see the meaning of patting myself on the back with people that are completely strangers to me.
I wrote it for the good guys among you that are trying and sometime feels sad because they crash on a wall of bricks when their system fail, and they read, in places like this, they are chasing a unicorn. I would like to remember them that even human flight was impossible till someone did it. In the world there are two kinds of people, the ones who thinks impossible is just another word to say hard, and the ones who say 'I don't believe it' because they cannot stand they are wrong.
I will not explain my system because I can't understand why someone has to have for nothing what I spent a life to achieve. I do have enough curious during my game sessions, "discreetely" walking behind me in order to understand why I am not losing at the roulette, to ask for more.

12-DZ+DZ loss  29  1 : 108 / 1  54
11-EC loss  59  1 : 126 / 2  53
11-EC loss  89  1 : 144 / 2  52
11-EC WIN  44  2 : 162 / 1  54
11-EC loss  89  2 : 180 / 2  52
11-EC WIN  44  3 : 198 / 1  54
11-EC WIN -1

(https://forum.roulette30.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F68.media.tumblr.com%2F3b97815f18d806530909963c897a7191%2Ftumblr_nrasibbHQr1uzf1ano4_250.gif&hash=4fe64dc110b85ba887ab40ab2696502f)

Quote from: Dr. Talos
CANON 4
As I said, "Martingale" is a winning system that defeats the house edge. Unfortunately, is unplayable...
So, the task is to create a playable Martingale. Many tried: we have Reverse Martingale, Fibonacci, and so on.
This is the path.

12-DZ+DZ loss  20  1 : 108 / 1  55
11-EC loss  50  1 : 126 / 2  54
12-DZ+DZ WIN  24  2 : 150 / 1  55
12-DZ+DZ loss  74  2 : 174 / 1  53
10-DZ loss  111  2 : 186 / 2  51
10-DZ loss  139  2 : 198 / 2  50
10-DZ WIN  69  3 : 210 / 1  53 <=== barely missed the win
10-DZ loss  104  3 : 222 / 1  51
9-DS+Quad loss  145  3 : 232 / 1  50
8-DS+Street WIN  27  4 : 241 / 1  54 <=== formula betting error
11-EC loss  55  4 : 259 / 1  53
10-DZ loss  83  4 : 271 / 1  52
10-DZ loss  125  4 : 283 / 1  51
9-DS+Quad loss  174  4 : 293 / 1  49
6-Quad+Split loss  209  4 : 299 / 1  47
6-Quad+Split loss  252  4 : 305 / 2  45
8-DS+Street loss  295  4 : 314 / 2  44
6-Quad+Split loss  325  4 : 320 / 2  43
6-Quad+Split loss  358  4 : 326 / 2  41
6-Quad+Split WIN  196  5 : 332 / 1  48 <=== and we are back to the well again
6-Quad+Split loss  236  5 : 338 / 1  46
4-Quad loss  265  5 : 342 / 1  45
4-Quad loss  298  5 : 346 / 1  44
4-Quad loss  335  5 : 350 / 1  42
4-Quad loss  377  5 : 354 / 1  40
3-Street loss  411  5 : 357 / 1  39
3-Street WIN -1  <=== won twice anyway!!

(https://forum.roulette30.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F68.media.tumblr.com%2F1684b6afc9d29e37b8300a9b44d5808b%2Ftumblr_ns7z13NULc1qcy62fo8_250.gif&hash=58f78e6894a4d0cf808bc0e041573e6e)

Quote from: Dr. Talos
CANON 9
Previous outcomes has not business in future outcomes. You know that. You have only one road to follow in order to win: betting amount. The "perfect system" is the martingale, but unfortunately is impossible to play. Once you create a suitable martingale, you have your Holy Grail.  The trick is a "playable Martingale". I keep saying that, I know I am boring.
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: DrTalos on March 04, 2017, 02:17:08 PM
The "deal" you offered was to make you get dollars using my system, with the advantage on my side os using my system to make money I am already making. Sorry for not taking this wonderful opportunity.
Is like you offer me to allow me to drive my car, while you are not using it.

Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: Jesper on March 04, 2017, 02:42:43 PM
The opposite is more common," I have a system invest your money!" As some new religions, "The world is going at an end, give all money to me, and I will save you!"

By the way you have been lucky, and had a "system" which of course will break some times in the future,
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: jerome26b on March 04, 2017, 02:50:28 PM

"There's is no selection, let me say one more time: there is no selection. If a reverse my selection the system must work exactly the same, otherwise is just "luck". Everything can happen in the roulette table: the same number out 8 times in a row (has been recorded), or a dozen without hits for more than 46 spins. I don't believe in selection of any sort, never worked out for anybody. I refuse to admit that I am using a selection because is not true!"

a little bit earlier in september :

"My system is a combination of bet selection and progression"

So again you will say that i'm thinking in the Western way maybe ?

Let's be clear maybe you got something and have a system that is not working bad for you but be honnest to admit you tell us some wrong information about your system; but you admitted again and again that all you said has to be taken as true. I still don't know what way you were pursuing but it's a little bit pervert !

That's the problem when you lie after a moment you will unfortunately be confused there and there...

it seems only Reyth is still believing now, until he will open his eyes at the end.

Jérôme
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: Jesper on March 04, 2017, 02:57:45 PM
Why is the longest threads about the impossible? Why any take it serious somebody is vague in telling but bold in expose him self as a person in possession of the impossible.

I have won now 120 sessions in a row, but I have some kind of telling it, and admit it is a luck I did not hit the worst.
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: jekhb76 on March 04, 2017, 04:40:51 PM
Every decent system can work for a long time comin' it is a combination of a good money management, and i don't mean any progression, because i believe that that isn't money management but to know when to stop and to go home. Every time when you go home with no loss you have won the day and the casino has lost. Always set your targets low. better to ear 10 dollar a day then to loose 100 dollar a week later. 7x10 dollar is 70 dollar a week, 280 dollar in 4 weeks. Always take care of one thing. Make sure the casino is playing against you and you don't fight the casino.
Remeber. if you do things right and have the patients, you can stop working in a year from now. and that is when i'm now starting with a good system and plan to make 10 dollar a day. when you're bankroll has doubled after a few weeks, you then can raise your starting unit by one and your target by 2. now you are making 20 dollar a day. is 140 dollar a week, is 560 dollar a mont. this on and on and on and on. within a year from now you are at 100-200 dollar a day. and you don't have to work anymore. but the only reason we can't do this is to be patient all the time and stick to the rules. and the most important thing of all. LUCK.
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: BlueAngel on March 04, 2017, 04:50:11 PM
No matter what you choose to bet, regardless of the results, if you make a long progression by increasing gradually betting amounts you'll come always on top.
So the only thing one needs is a progression with a long list of amounts which are increasing gradually after every loss.

In short this is his philosophy, not mine.
If you believe that you cannot do any better than this approach, then you may follow his example.
Please be my guest and don't pay attention to my rants!
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: BlueAngel on March 04, 2017, 04:59:38 PM
Always take care of one thing. Make sure the casino is playing against you and you don't fight the casino.

Hi, can you explain what exactly do you mean?
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: jerome26b on March 04, 2017, 05:56:29 PM
Every decent system can work for a long time comin' it is a combination of a good money management, and i don't mean any progression, because i believe that that isn't money management but to know when to stop and to go home. Every time when you go home with no loss you have won the day and the casino has lost. Always set your targets low. better to ear 10 dollar a day then to loose 100 dollar a week later. 7x10 dollar is 70 dollar a week, 280 dollar in 4 weeks. Always take care of one thing. Make sure the casino is playing against you and you don't fight the casino.
Remeber. if you do things right and have the patients, you can stop working in a year from now. and that is when i'm now starting with a good system and plan to make 10 dollar a day. when you're bankroll has doubled after a few weeks, you then can raise your starting unit by one and your target by 2. now you are making 20 dollar a day. is 140 dollar a week, is 560 dollar a mont. this on and on and on and on. within a year from now you are at 100-200 dollar a day. and you don't have to work anymore. but the only reason we can't do this is to be patient all the time and stick to the rules. and the most important thing of all. LUCK.
i have to admit that i like this approach based on units. making only few units a day maybe just 10 for example but being able to manage it with a very small 'unit bankroll' that allow us to raise the unit size after some threshold. it can lead to a more convenient system to play not too boring and time consuming. i think it could be the trick to play roulette for a leaving. With a very small progression or just flat betting. the total units involved in a system is important and if we can have something that is winning more than losing with a total bank of 50 units it can bring some good money every day just raising the unit size without grinding all day long

jerome
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: BlueAngel on March 04, 2017, 06:32:51 PM
Reyth,

I would not be surprised if someone copied and used the exact Talos progression and within a week lose...

Reyth I can see and understand your calculations in order to find out how much to bet on the next spin, I would like to remind you that your admiration idol doesn't gamble online, neither on RNG's.
He prefers airball roulettes which spit out balls from 50 to 90 seconds intervals, also those terminals have issues with their screens because sensitivity on the surface of the touch-screen needs to be calibrated often.

I've witnessed with my own eyes persons who were trying to place or remove bets but the screen was unresponsive, also if your finger moves half centimeter away your bet could be placed not where you wanted.
Do you think that the 50 to 90 seconds is sufficient time to do calculations and place/remove different bet amounts from/to different bet sections properly??

Don't you think that there are more than one inconsistencies to say the least to those cannon-statements??
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: DrTalos on March 04, 2017, 06:42:19 PM
Oh my god, you got me, now I am lost, I have to send back all the money you guys send me for my winning system... let me do some math... Oh, right, just about 0.00.

You can say I say BS, You can say that the HG doesn't exist, you can do whatever you want, I don't care. I keep my winnings and my system, and what you say about it doesn't change a comma.
If someone can get something from my clues good, if this doesn't happen, no one will be poorer or richer. Pardon me if I give you hints, and tried to push you in a good directions for your search.
Excuse me If I wished you luck, and to succeed, with nothing to gain.
Excuse me if I made people think, and experiment, and find new way to conquer this game.

I am so guilty of this horrible behavior that I will stay in my little cave forever, without annoying anyone else.

Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: BlueAngel on March 04, 2017, 07:22:36 PM
I've learned that there is no value in claims which cannot be proved, everyone could claim anything, especially online.
Since we haven't and most likely won't meet in person, the consequences of misleading information is from tiny to none.
I still believe in the existence of the ''holy grail'', every action we do at the tables is an act of faith (to ourselves and what we do), those who have little but share everything are the true believers in life.
I still believe in ''paradise'', it's not a place where you go but how you feel for a moment in your life.

God bless you!
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: rouletteman on March 04, 2017, 07:31:43 PM
DrTalos,

Thanks for the entertaining posts and for all the tips you have given.

Not matter your method of play,  Your most sound advise is a slow progression that can handle losses.

Something intriguing is the expansion of the bet on 2Ls.  Think of it this way.  A L twice of 3DS (even chance) goes to 4DS (24 numbers) on a W back to 3DS.  Just an example. 18 numbers goes to 24 numbers.  Playing more than 24 is not recommended by me. Bet levels need not go up with every increase in numbers.  Think about it.

RouletteMan
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: jekhb76 on March 04, 2017, 08:31:49 PM
Always take care of one thing. Make sure the casino is playing against you and you don't fight the casino.

Hi, can you explain what exactly do you mean?
With this i ment that the first thing you should always do when you are using a system is to make sure that you have doubled your bankroll before anything else. that way you are playing your system with casino money, instead of your own.
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: Reyth on March 05, 2017, 02:58:18 AM
Quote from: Dr. Talos
My system has several boundaries. Once I cross one level, it will have to redesign itself to be effective. If the games is getting longer, and cross another boundary, a new redesign occurs. Let me try to make an example, unrelated to my system.
If I play EC, adding one at every spin, I know that at the third spin I play just to go even. So, at spin number three I start betting on dozens with two units so to be a winner if hits. This change of pattern is what I am talking about. The system in itself doesn't change, but it bends as the game goes.

I propose:

============================
Level 1 -- Core progression (80.64% to win)
Level 2 -- Core recovery progression
============================
Level 3 -- Basic recovery
Level 4 -- Intermediate recovery
============================

The vast majority of games end within Levels 1-3Level 2 has 7 "exit points" and the vast majority of those exits will end in the very first bet of Level 3; those initial exit point bets are easily memorized and no calculation is therefore required even though they follow the systerm's calculation principles.

If Level 2 should fail (so far this hasn't happened in over 1500 successful coups), Level 3 is bypassed and we begin immediately with Level 4.

Level 3 involves the highest percentage bets (DZ+DZ, EC, DZ) and usually ends the game quickly.

Level 4 requires more compromise in the bet selections (DS + ##) and is a way to "stay in the game" while not increasing the bets very much or even lowering them.  Immediate recovery is very close to this stage.

Level 5 is deep recovery.  These are the worst sequences we can possibly see.  Typically, with my current ratios, 1/2 of the bankroll balance is exhausted here; Talos reaches this level with more than 1/2 of the bankroll intact.  The costs are kept to the very minimum while always remaining within 5 wins to profit.  Talos has not seen this level fail in over 100K spins with his optimized ratios; I have not seen it fail yet in around 1750+ coups but my ratios are more aggressive (because I don't yet know how to duplicate his specific results).

The HNB ratio fluxuates within these different levels as well but it seems more reliable to classify the levels based on the bet selection which is more of a constant feature of each level.

Its important to be cognizant of these levels because it is very likely he is altering the ratios based on which level we are on, as static ratios don't seem to match his results.

Here is an example of a game that ended very early on Level 4:

12-DZ+DZ loss  29  1 : 108 / 1  54 <=== Level 3
11-EC loss  59  1 : 126 / 2  53
10-DZ WIN -3  2 : 138 / 1  56
12-DZ+DZ loss  29  1 : 108 / 1  54
11-EC loss  59  1 : 126 / 2  53
11-EC loss  90  1 : 144 / 2  52
11-EC WIN  43  2 : 162 / 1  54
11-EC loss  88  2 : 180 / 2  52  <=== Late hit splits the debt
11-EC loss  134  2 : 198 / 2  50
10-DZ loss  169  2 : 210 / 2  49
10-DZ loss  212  2 : 222 / 2  47
9-DS+Quad WIN  ?.?.?  3 : 232 / 1  55 <=== Level 4 immediate win
12-DZ+DZ WIN -1

There was a betting error in this game but it is posted to show the levels more than the function of the ratios; regardless of the error, 2 wins ends the game at that point.

Here is a nice game that reached the highest portions of Level 5:

12-DZ+DZ loss  29  1 : 108 / 1  54 <=== Level 3
11-EC loss  59  1 : 126 / 2  53
11-EC loss  90  1 : 144 / 2  52
11-EC loss  137  1 : 162 / 2  50
10-DZ loss  172  1 : 174 / 2  49
10-DZ loss  216  1 : 186 / 3  47
10-DZ loss  253  1 : 198 / 3  45
10-DZ loss  296  1 : 210 / 3  44
9-DS+Quad loss  336  1 : 220 / 3  42 <=== Level 4
8-DS+Street loss  377  1 : 229 / 3  40
7-DS+Split loss  417  1 : 237 / 3  39
6-Quad+Split loss  447  1 : 243 / 4  38
7-DS+Split loss  484  1 : 251 / 4  36  <=== selection increase
6-Quad+Split loss  510  1 : 257 / 4  35 <===Level 5
6-Quad+Split loss  538  1 : 263 / 4  34
6-Quad+Split loss  567  1 : 269 / 4  33  <=== 0:135
6-Quad+Split WIN  408  2 : 275 / 3  39
6-Quad+Split loss  437  2 : 281 / 3  38
7-DS+Split loss  484  2 : 289 / 3  36  <=== Level 4, selection increase
6-Quad+Split loss  519  2 : 295 / 3  35  <=== Level 5
5-DS loss  554  2 : 301 / 4  33
6-Quad+Split loss  583  2 : 307 / 4  32
6-Quad+Split WIN  425  3 : 313 / 3  39
6-Quad+Split WIN  266  4 : 319 / 2  45
7-DS+Split loss  309  4 : 327 / 2  43 <=== Level 4, selection increase
6-Quad+Split loss  342  4 : 333 / 2  42 <=== Level 5
6-Quad+Split WIN  153  5 : 339 / 1  49
7-DS+Split WIN -1  <=== selection increase

LLLWLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLWLLLLLWWLLWW 6:32

Tremendous earning power is being leveraged at the deepest recovery levels while the costs are being minimized.

Quote from: Dr. Talos
CANON 39

The game is usually short, because of the large amount of numbers involved. Despite that, sometimes I play a considerable low amount of numbers, and if I hit in a strict sequence (let's say three in a row) my profit is quite large.

For information's sake:

1-18: 67 (43.51%)
19-36: 82 (53.25%)

The culprit is clearly Low coming in well under expectation (67:149) and our debt never even came close to 1/2 of the bankroll.

12-DZ+DZ loss  38  1 : 132 / 2  54 <=== Level 3
12-DZ+DZ loss  78  1 : 156 / 2  52
11-EC WIN  37  2 : 174 / 1  54 <=== chop
11-EC loss  75  2 : 192 / 2  53  <===
11-EC WIN  36  3 : 210 / 1  54  <===
11-EC loss  74  3 : 228 / 1  53  <=== chop
10-DZ loss  112  3 : 240 / 2  51
10-DZ WIN  54  4 : 252 / 1  53
10-DZ loss  82  4 : 264 / 1  52
10-DZ loss  124  4 : 276 / 1  51
9-DS+Quad loss  174  4 : 286 / 1  49
6-Quad+Split loss  211  4 : 292 / 1  47  <=== Level 4 (aggressive profit ploy)
5-DS WIN -1 <=== continued aggression

This game shows the power of the ratios to maximize our ability to land a single winning coup by keeping the cost:profit ratio as low as possible; this is not wild betting, this is precisely controlled risk-taking.
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: jerome26b on March 05, 2017, 09:05:20 AM
Good work Reyth,

i was not going so far using combination of quads and splits, i limited myself to DS and S in my simulations. I will have a look in the worst sequences i got and see if using this combination can bring something. When you hit something you change the pattern or stay always to the same selection ? And when you miss ?
Maybe the fact Talos said he used a pattern to avoid confusion was the proof he's using sometimes this kind of selection quads, splits as well; cause in that case it requires more attention about what to play for example if you are playing the "following the last". There's something sure his progression is not so shy and he's using the power of his units to achieve the win quickly. The fact he's saying every few days he has to put more than his initial 300 is the proof; so we can consider playing airball one spin a minute and let's say 500 spins a day that is already good amount every 1000/1500 spins he has to play with an amount more than his initial 300 units. But he's able to come back usually below 500 total. If i remember well he was never putting more than 600 or 700.
In the simulations i did the worse happened around once in 1000 spins, so it's in this case that the final recovery must be efficient. In some way it's frustrating cause it's quite grinding and efficient all the time except these rare events (but it's the problem with every system by the way); if we can have a way to limit or "detect" these rare event before going to the worse we have a partial solution... i was thinking about implementing a stop loss as well. I still believe in the potential of a stop loss, the problem in this case is that at the end even if you generate some benefits it's very low in 1000 spins. Even the Talos one is generating poor rate and is a grinding and maybe other systems can be more effective in that case. The strong point of the Talos system is to be able to always recover (from now).
The fact he can be forced to play even one number if the game is too long is the proof he refused to put hundreds of units on one spin, i felt many times he doesn't like at all put a big amount of numbers in one spin so he prefer to lower the selection and play less units than playing more and going deep. The only problem we face when we reduce considerably the selection is the fact at a moment we count on "lady luck" to bring a win.... so it's not a solution to lower and lower undefinitely. It's the reason 6 is the lowest he's playing, but even a ds can miss more than 30 times in a row easily and it's not taking 3 splits, a quad and a split that will change something at the end, 6 numbers stays 6 numbers...

Jérôme
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: Reyth on March 05, 2017, 09:55:40 AM
Good work Reyth,

i was not going so far using combination of quads and splits, i limited myself to DS and S in my simulations.

Actually, I have discovered that Quad + Split is the same thing as DS, except DS is slightly less expensive (if not the same cost).  I just now removed that bet selection from the list.

Quote
I will have a look in the worst sequences i got and see if using this combination can bring something. When you hit something you change the pattern or stay always to the same selection ?And when you miss ?

Everything is always a calculation.  On a hit, the HNB ratio will usually tend to decrease (rarely it will remain the same), the MBA is what controls the selection; check the MBA for the cost of your current selection to match the HNB ratio -- if it is "too expensive", move down the list until you can "afford" a selection.

Quote
Maybe the fact Talos said he used a pattern to avoid confusion was the proof he's using sometimes this kind of selection quads, splits as well

I believe that he uses quads & splits, theoretically but he has the ratios optimized so much that the worst sequences never actually call for anything lower than a DS.  But yes, I believe he bets DS+Quad, DS+ Street & DS+Split regularly.

Quote
cause in that case it requires more attention about what to play for example if you are playing the "following the last".

I always play "opposite of last" and "farthest back" to determine my selections; even though this doesn't matter ultimately; we can pick random selections if we want.  I think the only thing that would be stupid is if we randomly re-select the selection with every spin; I mean I believe in attempting to use as much of a particular piece of felt that we can afford (like the Pivot/Parachute).

Quote
There's something sure his progression is not so shy and he's using the power of his units to achieve the win quickly.

This is one of the things I believe he is teaching too -- if his ratios are in line, he is not afraid to drop 40 or 50 units in a single bet.

About the ratios, I believe he has them all mapped out which is how he was able to optimize them.  I haven't yet "sat down" and mapped them all out to see what is what and how to lengthen the number of bets versus the 1400 bankroll, etc.

Quote
If i remember well he was never putting more than 600.

Yup.  This is because he has optimized the ratios for maximum recovery in the least amount of bets.

Quote
In the simulations i did the worse happened around once in 1000 spins, so it's in this case that the final recovery must be efficient.

This is a very interesting point you make.  I think much of your problems revolved around not having faith in the MBA to lower and raise your selections.  Even with the MBA though, my ratios are going way too deep for what Talos has discovered is optimal.  This is probably very dangerous and is why we need to map this thing out to the "225 spins" like he has.

I think the mapping formula should be something like:

1:229 from 0:228 debt: 95
+ Bet selection =
[NEW RATIO] debt: ###
+Bet selection =
[NEW RATIO] debt: ### etc.

and we can call it the "Loss Canon" and try to optimize it.  The real problem is not the Loss Canon because I can run that out to maybe 90 spins before exhausting the bankroll, but its the assumed frequency of wins -- I don't think we will be able to figure out what he used there.

I think the only evidence we have is his debt level 600 and his number of spins like 70-90, I forget and have to leave...

Quote
In some way it's frustrating cause it's quite grinding and efficient all the time except these rare events (but it's the problem with every system by the way); if we can have a way to limit or "detect" these rare event before going to the worse we have a partial solution...

The HNB ratio is the powerful force in roulette that gives us hits.  If we optimize the MBA, we should be able to handle any sequence; I believe this because Talos himself has done it.

Of course he admits the wheel can go beyond 225 spins, its just that he is a genius type and knows how rare it is -- he has proven it by not ever seeing anything even half as close in over 100K spins.

Quote
The strong point of the Talos system is to be able to always recover (from now).

Yes it is amazing how many losses we can have in a row and its like it hardly affects us because in a couple of wins we are almost back at profit.

Quote
The fact he can be forced to play even one number if the game is too long is the proof he refused to put hundreds of units on one spin, i felt many times he doesn't like at all put a big amount of numbers in one spin so he prefer to lower the selection and play less units than playing more and going deep.

Yes, exactly.  This is the MBA at work.  He mapped out all bets and optimized the MBA so that it provides the maximum number of possible bets without a loss WHILE not calling for a bet lower than a DS.

See, Talos is the kind of guy that will sit down and meticulous grind on paper every possible sequence to determine the optimal results -- its something we simply aren't going to find by "shooting from the hip" and taking simplistic shortcuts; the shortcuts work but for optimal results we need to be meticulous and map everything out.

Quote
The only problem we face when we reduce considerably the selection is the fact at a moment we count on "lady luck" to bring a win.... so it's not a solution to lower and lower undefinitely.

Meh.  Every bet is luck.  Its the HNB ratio that makes the hits, we just try and help it out by selecting intelligently and keeping our costs as low as possible.  Remember he said he did all his ratio work away from the felt.

Quote
It's the reason 6 is the lowest he's playing, but even a ds can miss more than 30 times in a row easily and it's not taking 3 splits, a quad and a split that will change something at the end, 6 numbers stays 6 numbers...

I agree of course.  The mental trap is over simplifying the problem just like our "AP friends" do -- we should raise our eyebrow when we say that a DS can go missing for 84 spins because its not likely we will ever see it in our lifetimes; it requires a ratio of 0:498!  We should also remember that before we are reduced to that DS, we are likely to have placed many bets on larger pieces of the felt that includes that DS.

Lets map a DS:

Talos uses 225 spins in his progression.  So the minimum number of appearances of a DS in the 225 spins is 15, which is 15:1350 which is 1:90, so we can't get that.

Notice how bad this feels psychologically?  We can NEVER get 1:90, its so FAR from 1:60!

But to get a ratio of 1:60 we need a hit in 60 spins which the chances of that are:

.999976

Which means  we will miss in only 0.000024 (24 times in 1 million) or 1 in 41,667 COUP ATTEMPTS.

Sounds alot better doesn't it?  We only need 1400 successful coup attempts to be profitable.

Besides, how easy is it to switch to a Quad for another 20 spins at a certain point and throw another 500 units on the table bank?

Our problem is not a DS going missing for 84 times; our problem is simply surviving for the ratio of 1:60 with a bankroll of 1400 units; its a much easier problem to deal with. ;)

Talos has mapped these ratios out over every possible bet selection and I think when he did this, he may have discovered that the HNB ratio is more powerful than we realize from viewing it independently of mapped results.

How can Talos say, "I worked and worked to stretch see how far I could go with the ratio and I finally arrived at 1:60"?  He sat down and mapped it out.

Btw trivia, 65:200 =  65:3600 which is 1:56 (this the ratio that governs High/Low)!!

PS If you want to throw me a worst sequence, I can try and knock it down.  Like Talos says, every bet is governed by the maths, there is no choice.  I start with Low, I bet opposite of last and if I get to DZ bets, I bet farthest back.  I try and select where I put smaller selections by the farthest back DZ as well.  I am about 8 sessions away from doubling my bank again! :D
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: juice on March 05, 2017, 01:59:03 PM
Nice work Reyth~
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: Reyth on March 05, 2017, 05:45:39 PM
11-DZ+DZ loss  38  1 : 132 / 2  54
11-DZ+DZ loss  78  1 : 156 / 2  52
10-EC loss  119  1 : 174 / 2  51
9-DZ loss  150  1 : 186 / 3  50
9-DZ loss  176  1 : 198 / 3  48
9-DZ WIN  116  2 : 210 / 2  51
9-DZ loss  146  2 : 222 / 2  50
9-DZ loss  184  2 : 234 / 2  48
9-DZ loss  231  2 : 246 / 3  46
9-DZ loss  271  2 : 258 / 3  45
8-DS+Quad loss  298  2 : 268 / 3  44
8-DS+Quad loss  339  2 : 278 / 3  42
7-DS+Street WIN  206  3 : 287 / 2  47
8-DS+Quad WIN  113  4 : 297 / 1  51 <=== bet increase
8-DS+Quad loss  159  4 : 307 / 2  49
9-DZ WIN  77  5 : 319 / 1  52 <=== bet increase
9-DZ loss  117  5 : 331 / 1  51
8-DS+Quad loss  164  5 : 341 / 1  49
5-DS loss  198  5 : 347 / 1  48
5-DS loss  238  5 : 353 / 1  46
4-Quad loss  268  5 : 357 / 1  45
4-Quad loss  302  5 : 361 / 2  43
5-DS loss  333  5 : 367 / 2  42
5-DS loss  367  5 : 373 / 2  41
5-DS loss  404  5 : 379 / 2  39
4-Quad loss  430  5 : 383 / 2  38
4-Quad loss  458  5 : 387 / 2  37
4-Quad loss  487  5 : 397 / 2  36
4-Quad loss  518  5 : 401 / 2  35
4-Quad loss  551  5 : 405 / 2  33
3-Street loss  577  5 : 408 / 2  32
3-Street loss  604  5 : 411 / 2  31
3-Street loss  632  5 : 414 / 2  30
3-Street loss  661  5 : 417 / 2  29
1-Split loss  681  5 : 419 / 2  28
1-Split loss  702  5 : 421 / 3  27
3-Street loss  724  5 : 424 / 3  27
3-Street loss  747  5 : 427 / 3  26
3-Street WIN  494  6 : 430 / 2  36
4-Quad loss  526  6 : 434 / 2  34 <=== bet increase
4-Quad WIN  254  7 : 438 / 1  45
4-Quad loss  286  7 : 442 / 1  44
4-Quad loss  322  7 : 446 / 1  43
4-Quad loss  363  7 : 450 / 1  41
3-Street loss  397  7 : 453 / 1  40
3-Street loss  434  7 : 456 / 1  38
1-Split loss  460  7 : 458 / 1  37
1-Split loss  488  7 : 460 / 1  36
1-Split loss  517  7 : 462 / 1  35
1-Split loss  548  7 : 464 / 1  34
1-Split loss  581  7 : 466 / 1  32
0-S/U  598  7 : 467 / 1  32
0-S/U WIN -1

LLLLWLLLLLWLLLLLLWWLWLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLWLWLLLLLLLLLLLW 8:52

Wow.  This isn't the longest session I have had, nor is it the hardest to hit the bankroll, nor the worst ratio but in a particular way, it is the worst session I have had.  I was actually forced to bet a S/U number to obtain the win (34 Red :D).

Regardless, it did admirably well in maintaining "relevancy" despite the worst losing streak on record and recovered strongly.

This is obviously a rare event but because it has happened, I think an adjustment of the MBA is in order, raising it 1 percentage point to .05 .  This should slow the shrinking of the bet selection and from all sessions played so far, it appears the bankroll can afford it.
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: BlueAngel on March 05, 2017, 07:43:10 PM

I'd be very glad to be proved wrong!

Make no mistake, we'll kill the world if we pass this test...
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: Reyth on March 05, 2017, 08:49:45 PM
11-DZ+DZ WIN  7  2 : 156 / 1  69
11-DZ+DZ loss  23  2 : 180 / 2  68
11-DZ+DZ loss  73  2 : 204 / 2  66
10-EC loss  111  2 : 222 / 2  64
10-EC WIN  54  3 : 240 / 2  67
11-DZ+DZ WIN  25  4 : 264 / 1  68
11-DZ+DZ loss  77  4 : 288 / 1  66
9-DZ loss  117  4 : 300 / 2  64
10-EC loss  177  4 : 318 / 2  61
9-DZ loss  222  4 : 330 / 2  58
9-DZ WIN  108  5 : 342 / 1  64
9-DZ loss  163  5 : 354 / 1  61
7-DS+Street loss  222  5 : 363 / 2  58 <=== last ditch effort for the win
9-DZ loss  279  5 : 375 / 2  56 <=== bet increase
7-DS+Street loss  330  5 : 384 / 2  53
6-DS+Split loss  383  5 : 392 / 2  50
5-DS WIN  188  6 : 398 / 1  60
6-DS+Split loss  248  6 : 406 / 1  57 <=== bet increase
5-DS loss  298  6 : 412 / 1  55
4-Quad loss  336  6 : 416 / 1  53

LLLLLWLLLWWLLLLWLLLLLWLLLW 6:26

I am a bit confused if the MBA upgrade has had its intended effect or not.  It is quite clear that the bet amounts are now higher in the game, in fact a bit scary it seems to me to where I am thinking about a 1/2 percent decrease.

The question is if it has slowed down the shrinking of the bets and it doesn't appear so at all, we are at Quads pretty fast and in the presence of multiple wins; I think this has had an OPPOSITE effect! O_o

Ok, I will try .035 and see where that takes us...

Here is a short sample game at .035 MBA:

11-DZ+DZ loss  29  1 : 108 / 1  47
10-EC loss  59  1 : 126 / 2  46
10-EC loss  90  1 : 144 / 2  45
9-DZ loss  114  1 : 156 / 2  45
9-DZ WIN  54  2 : 168 / 1  47
9-DZ WIN -1

Seems ok for a short entry; it was the only major conflict in my session.

Here is another short one:

11-DZ+DZ loss  38  1 : 132 / 2  47
11-DZ+DZ loss  78  1 : 156 / 2  46
10-EC loss  119  1 : 174 / 2  44
9-DZ WIN  57  2 : 186 / 2  47 <=== rare immobile ratio due to late hit
10-EC WIN  27  3 : 204 / 1  48
10-EC loss  56  3 : 222 / 1  47
9-DZ loss  85  3 : 234 / 1  46
9-DZ WIN -1 <=== One Dozen becomes strong when you combine it into a series

So far I like how .035 is working.

11-DZ+DZ loss  29  1 : 108 / 1  47 <=== Level 3
10-EC loss  59  1 : 126 / 2  46
10-EC loss  90  1 : 144 / 2  45
9-DZ loss  114  1 : 156 / 2  45
9-DZ loss  144  1 : 168 / 2  43
9-DZ loss  181  1 : 180 / 3  42
9-DZ loss  212  1 : 192 / 3  41
9-DZ WIN  140  2 : 204 / 2  44
9-DZ loss  176  2 : 216 / 2  42
8-DS+Quad loss  212  2 : 226 / 2  41 <=== Level 4
7-DS+Street loss  250  2 : 235 / 2  40
6-DS+Split loss  290  2 : 243 / 3  38
7-DS+Street loss  325  2 : 252 / 3  37  <=== bet increase
6-DS+Split loss  360  2 : 260 / 3  36
5-DS loss  385  2 : 266 / 3  35  <=== Level 5
5-DS loss  411  2 : 272 / 3  34
5-DS loss  439  2 : 278 / 3  33
5-DS loss  469  2 : 284 / 3  32
5-DS loss  501  2 : 290 / 3  31
4-Quad WIN  325  3 : 294 / 2  37
5-DS loss  358  3 : 300 / 3  36
5-DS loss  383  3 : 306 / 3  35
5-DS loss  409  3 : 312 / 3  34
5-DS loss  437  3 : 318 / 3  33
5-DS WIN  287  4 : 324 / 2  38
6-DS+Split loss  325  4 : 332 / 2  37 <=== Level 4, bet increase
5-DS loss  370  4 : 362 / 3  36  <=== Level 5
5-DS WIN  245  5 : 368 / 2  40
6-DS+Split WIN  98  6 : 376 / 1  45 <=== Level 4, bet increase
8-DS+Quad loss  138  6 : 386 / 1  44  <=== bet increase
6-DS+Split loss  182  6 : 394 / 1  42
5-DS loss  219  6 : 400 / 1  41 <=== Level 5
4-Quad loss  247  6 : 404 / 1  40 <=== massively
4-Quad loss  279  6 : 408 / 1  39 <=== aggressive
4-Quad loss  315  6 : 412 / 1  37 <=== assault
3-Street WIN -1 <=== FOR THE WIN!

(https://media.giphy.com/media/eCkzKWhR2vRL2/giphy.gif)

LLLLWLLLLLLLWLLLLLLLLLLLWLLLLWLLWWLLLLLLW 7:41

Definitely stronger.  The Double Streets showed themselves strong.  Obviously still not synched with Talos' method but effective nonetheless, clearly demonstrating the power of Level 5 leveraging to recover profit.

Maybe we should reduce the MBA to .03?

Interesting thought about the Carsch Star.  Its very strong because it relentlessly attacks the debt and ignores chop but eventually it is overwhelmed because it doesn't know how to back off; I call it a semi-intelligent progression.

Hang tight, our next broadcast will be a video of us doubling our bank for the second time!

(https://m.popkey.co/fa9898/rMvM_f-maxage-0.gif)

11-DZ+DZ loss  29  1 : 108 / 1  47
10-EC loss  59  1 : 126 / 2  46
10-EC loss  90  1 : 144 / 2  45
9-DZ loss  114  1 : 156 / 2  45
9-DZ WIN  54  2 : 168 / 1  47
9-DZ loss  82  2 : 180 / 2  46
10-EC loss  125  2 : 198 / 2  44
9-DZ loss  157  2 : 210 / 2  43
9-DZ WIN  77  3 : 222 / 1  46
9-DZ loss  117  3 : 234 / 1  44
7-DS+Street loss  159  3 : 243 / 2  43
9-DZ loss  200  3 : 255 / 2  42
8-DS+Quad loss  241  3 : 265 / 2  40
6-DS+Split loss  280  3 : 273 / 2  39
5-DS loss  309  3 : 279 / 2  38
5-DS WIN  149  4 : 285 / 1  43
5-DS loss  180  4 : 291 / 1  42
<=== no bet selection increase??
5-DS loss  217  4 : 297 / 1  41
4-Quad loss  245  4 : 301 / 2  40
6-DS+Split loss  284  4 : 309 / 2  39
5-DS loss  313  4 : 315 / 2  38
5-DS loss  345  4 : 321 / 2  36
5-DS loss  380  4 : 327 / 2  35
4-Quad loss  404  4 : 331 / 2  34
4-Quad loss  430  4 : 335 / 2  33
4-Quad loss  458  4 : 339 / 2  32
4-Quad loss  487  4 : 343 / 2  31
4-Quad WIN  239  5 : 347 / 1  40
4-Quad loss  270  5 : 351 / 1  39
<=== no bet selection increase??
4-Quad loss  304  5 : 355 / 1  38
3-Street loss  332  5 : 358 / 1  37
3-Street loss  363  5 : 361 / 2  36
5-DS loss  399  5 : 367 / 2  35
4-Quad loss  425  5 : 371 / 2  34
4-Quad loss  452  5 : 375 / 2  33
4-Quad loss  481  5 : 379 / 2  32
4-Quad loss  512  5 : 383 / 2  31
3-Street loss  536  5 : 386 / 2  30
3-Street loss  561  5 : 389 / 2  29
3-Street loss  587  5 : 392 / 2  28
3-Street loss  614  5 : 395 / 2  27
1-Split loss  633  5 : 397 / 2  26
1-Split loss  652  5 : 399 / 2  26
1-Split loss  672  5 : 401 / 2  25
1-Split loss  692  5 : 403 / 2  24
1-Split loss  713  5 : 405 / 2  24
1-Split loss  735  5 : 407 / 2  23
1-Split loss  757  5 : 409 / 2  22
1-Split loss  768  5 : 411 / 2  22
1-Split loss  779  5 : 413 / 2  21
1-Split loss  791  5 : 415 / 2  21
1-Split loss  803  5 : 417 / 2  20
1-Split loss  815  5 : 419 / 2  20
1-Split loss  827  5 : 421 / 3  20
1-Split loss  844  5 : 423 / 3  19
1-Split loss  861  5 : 425 / 3  18
1-Split loss  878  5 : 427 / 3  18
1-Split loss  896  5 : 429 / 3  17
1-Split loss  905  5 : 431 / 3  17
1-Split loss  914  5 : 433 / 3  17
1-Split loss  923  5 : 435 / 3  16
1-Split loss  932  5 : 437 / 3  16
1-Split loss  941  5 : 439 / 3  16
1-Split loss  950  5 : 441 / 3  15
1-Split loss  960  5 : 443 / 3  15
1-Split loss  970  5 : 445 / 3  15
1-Split loss  980  5 : 447 / 3  14
1-Split loss  990  5 : 449 / 3  14
1-Split loss  1000  5 : 451 / 3  14
1-Split loss  1010  5 : 453 / 3  13
1-Split loss  1020  5 : 455 / 3  13
1-Split loss  1030  5 : 457 / 3  12
1-Split loss  1040  5 : 459 / 3  12
1-Split loss  1050  5 : 461 / 3  12
1-Split loss  1061  5 : 463 / 3  11
1-Split loss  1072  5 : 465 / 3  11
1-Split loss  1083  5 : 467 / 3  11
1-Split loss  1094  5 : 469 / 3  10
1-Split loss  1104  5 : 471 / 3  10
1-Split loss  1114  5 : 473 / 3  10
1-Split loss  1124  5 : 475 / 3  9
1-Split loss  1133  5 : 477 / 3  9
1-Split loss  1142  5 : 479 / 3  9
1-Split loss  1151  5 : 481 / 4  8
1-Split loss  1188  5 : 483 / 4  7
1-Split loss  1195  5 : 485 / 4  7
1-Split WIN  874  6 : 487 / 3  18
1-Split loss  892  6 : 489 / 3  17
1-Split loss  901  6 : 491 / 3  17
1-Split WIN  586  7 : 493 / 2  28
3-Street loss  613  7 : 496 / 2  27
1-Split loss  632  7 : 498 / 2  26
1-Split loss  651  7 : 500 / 2  26
1-Split loss  671  7 : 502 / 2  25
1-Split loss  691  7 : 504 / 2  24
1-Split loss  712  7 : 506 / 2  24
1-Split loss  734  7 : 508 / 2  23
1-Split loss  756  7 : 510 / 2  22
1-Split loss  767  7 : 512 / 2  22
1-Split loss  778  7 : 514 / 2  21
1-Split WIN  358  8 : 516 / 1  36
3-Street loss  391  8 : 519 / 1  35
1-Split loss  415  8 : 521 / 1  34
1-Split loss  440  8 : 523 / 1  33
1-Split loss  466  8 : 525 / 1  32
1-Split loss  494  8 : 527 / 1  31
1-Split loss  524  8 : 529 / 1  30
1-Split loss  539  8 : 531 / 1  30
1-Split loss  554  8 : 533 / 1  29
1-Split loss  569  8 : 535 / 1  29
1-Split loss  585  8 : 537 / 1  28
1-Split loss  601  8 : 539 / 1  27
1-Split loss  619  8 : 541 / 2  27
1-Split loss  638  8 : 543 / 2  26
1-Split loss  657  8 : 545 / 2  26
1-Split loss  677  8 : 547 / 2  25
1-Split loss  697  8 : 549 / 2  24
1-Split loss  718  8 : 551 / 2  23
1-Split loss  740  8 : 553 / 2  23
1-Split loss  762  8 : 555 / 2  22
1-Split loss  773  8 : 557 / 2  21
1-Split loss  784  8 : 559 / 2  21
1-Split loss  796  8 : 561 / 2  21
1-Split loss  808  8 : 563 / 2  20
1-Split loss  820  8 : 565 / 2  20
1-Split loss  832  8 : 567 / 2  19
1-Split loss  844  8 : 569 / 2  19
1-Split loss  857  8 : 571 / 2  19
1-Split loss  870  8 : 573 / 2  18
1-Split loss  883  8 : 575 / 2  18
1-Split loss  896  8 : 577 / 2  17
1-Split loss  909  8 : 579 / 2  17
1-Split loss  922  8 : 581 / 2  16
1-Split loss  936  8 : 583 / 2  16
1-Split loss  950  8 : 585 / 2  15
1-Split loss  964  8 : 587 / 2  15
1-Split loss  978  8 : 589 / 2  14
1-Split loss  992  8 : 591 / 2  14
1-Split WIN  467  9 : 593 / 1  32
1-Split loss  495  9 : 595 / 1  31
1-Split loss  525  9 : 597 / 1  30
1-Split loss  541  9 : 599 / 1  30
1-Split loss  557  9 : 601 / 2  29
3-Street loss  583  9 : 604 / 2  28
3-Street loss  610  9 : 607 / 2  27
1-Split loss  629  9 : 609 / 2  26
1-Split loss  648  9 : 611 / 2  26
1-Split loss  668  9 : 613 / 2  25
1-Split loss  688  9 : 615 / 2  24
1-Split loss  709  9 : 617 / 2  24
1-Split loss  730  9 : 619 / 2  23
1-Split loss  752  9 : 621 / 2  22
1-Split WIN  367  10 : 623 / 1  36
3-Street loss  401  10 : 626 / 1  34
1-Split loss  425  10 : 628 / 1  34
1-Split loss  451  10 : 630 / 1  33
1-Split loss  478  10 : 632 / 1  32
1-Split loss  507  10 : 634 / 1  31
1-Split loss  537  10 : 636 / 1  30
1-Split loss  553  10 : 638 / 1  29
1-Split loss  569  10 : 640 / 1  29
1-Split loss  586  10 : 642 / 1  28
1-Split loss  603  10 : 644 / 1  27
1-Split loss  621  10 : 646 / 1  27
1-Split loss  639  10 : 648 / 1  26
1-Split loss  657  10 : 650 / 1  26
1-Split WIN -8  11 : 652 / 0  49

FAQ

Did this session recover?

Yes.

Does this show the vailidity of the Talos system principles?

Yes.

Is the system broken?

Yes.

How can it be fixed?

Why do you ask so many questions!?

The video crashed about 3/4 of the way through.  Many of those "Split" bets are S/U bets as I have not implemented S/U bets in the system yet.  Going to lower the MBA to .025

We talk about how aggressive Talos is to end the game and this may be generally correct but I think we ultimately have the wrong picture; I think he is aggressively conservative.  I mean how do you bet 70+ times and only have a debt of 500+ units?

Some thoughts.  Level 3 will often not provide a bet selection increase after a win and it doesn't seem so bad because the debt is low and the bet selection is high anyway but on Level 5 it is a different story because we are only betting a DS or Quad for instance.

The reason why there is no bet selection increase is because the extra profit is being 100% used to fund the decrease in the ratio.  This has caused me to come up with a new thought!

What if we were to use HALF numbers in the HNB ratio?

Like instead of just /2 or /3, /2 /2.5 /3 /3.5 etc?  Using the extra half would be like "borrowing" to fund a bet selection increase?

5-DS WIN  149  4 : 285 / 1  43 <=== so here we would use .5 instead of 1

The problem is that eventually we would have the session where we would rack up misses at a higher amount, so this doesn't address the Talos QuestionTM:

How do you make your bets as low as possible while still fostering recovery?

This has created a new idea!  Coup Deferment.

Like this poem:

Quote from: Harry J. Elliot
Macavity's a Mystery Cat, he's called the Hidden Paw.
For he's a master criminal who can defy the law.
He's the bafflement of Scotland Yard, the Flying Squads despair,
For when they reach the scene of crime- Macavity's not there!

Lets say that we are at a debt of 827 and a ratio of 5 : 421 / 3 and we are betting a DS.  This requires us to split the debt into 3 sections.  The standard way of doing it is to divide 827/3 in preparation for 3 equal bets of 276 units/5= 56 units.

However, those two second bets are never actually placed because the debt & ratio is recalculated (meaningfully) when the next win is obtained.

So instead of the usual way of 56 56 56, what if we deferred say, 1/2 of the first bet to the other bets so it would be 28 70 70!?

So let's say we get our hit at 28.  Now the debt is reduced to 689 units and the ratio is 6:427/2 betting a DS for the sake of this example.  Well, once again we can defer the first 1/2 of the first bet since the second bet is actually never placed anyway and we have two bets of 35 86.

So we get our next hit and the debt is reduced to 514 and the ratio is 7:433/1 which requires a single bet to win.  Well, now our debt is only 514 units instead of the original 827 units...

The problem is, I don't see how we can leverage this to our advantage without still further shrinking our bet selecion for the final bet because even at the DS we would be betting over 100 units at one shot.

Truthfully though, we could afford even a single bet of 313 units because it would only bring us back to our original debt figure.  So, we could bet a DZ here for 258 units and have an advantage?

A further advantage is that loss streaks are heavily mitigated because we are not betting the full amount that we normally would.  :shrug:

Further Thoughts

We don't have to defer 1/2 of the bet amounts.  We could defer only the amount that is required to achieve a bet increase that we desire; I call this:

Coup Deferment to borrow a bet selection increase.

I think this is how Talos is BOTH keeping his bets low AND fostering recovery at the same time!  I think it is also how he is able to not ever bet lower than a DS.

I think this can also be called Ratio SurfingTM

Surfing Goals

After a win, attempt to both:

a) either achieve or improve a bet selection increase
b) defer addtional funds to future bets (discount the bet amount)

Even though this was ugly, I did manage to double my bank twice and so now its time to do it three times which will be the first for me with any system.

(https://i.memecaptain.com/gend_images/Bt0NqQ.jpg)

10-DZ+DZ loss  29  1 : 108 / 1  34
9-EC loss  59  1 : 126 / 2  33
9-EC loss  90  1 : 144 / 2  32
8-DZ loss  114  1 : 155 / 2  32
8-DZ loss  144  1 : 166 / 2  31
7-DS+Quad loss  174  1 : 176 / 2  30
5-DS+Split loss  203  1 : 184 / 3  29
7-DS+Quad WIN  141  2 : 194 / 2  31 <=== Surf's up!

DS+Quad: 7 / 4 ( 6 ) 8 / 5 ( 5 ) 10 / 6 ( 4 ) 13 / 7 ( 3 ) 18 / 11 ( 2 ) 36 / 21 ( 1 )
DZ: 13 ( 6 ) 15 ( 5 ) 19 ( 4 ) 25 ( 3 ) 36 ( 2 ) 72 ( 1 )
EC: 25 ( 6 ) 30 ( 5 ) 37 ( 4 ) 49 ( 3 ) 72 ( 2 ) 143 ( 1 )

So, we see here that we have a debt of 141 units, a ratio of 2 and an MBA of 31.  We can also see that the bet selection called for here is a repeat of DS+Quad because the ratio of (2) divisor has a bet amount of 18+11=29 units, which is less than the MBA.

However, I chose to surf this bet and decided to borrow a selection increase to a Dozen.  I also chose to discount the bet amount to 25 units which is the amount called for if our ratio was (3).

8-DZ WIN  91  3 : 205 / 1  32

Ok, so we hit immediately and now the ratio is 1.  I feel "forced" to take the bet selection that the MBA will allow which is DS+Split; I just don't feel its "right" to bet more than the MBA limit.

5-DS+Split loss  121  3 : 213 / 1  31
4-DS loss  146  3 : 219 / 1  31
4-DS WIN -1

I continue to follow the MBA guidelines and win on a DS.  Should I surpass the MBA limit when the ratio is 1?  Is it better to follow the MBA guidelines and allow the series of bets to win as the ratio of 1 is prolonged?

Can I discount & selection surf even though I have lost a bet?

A new technique has surfaced: "Down 1, Left 1"

This automatically will choose a bet selection that is "one better" than the current one & for a bet amount that is "one less" than the current ratio would call for.  This may be Talos' secret or a way to approximate his secret for keeping his bets & debt so low.

This is a description of the bet method I used in the previous example but it can also be used on every bet regardless if it is a win or not.

A hit on the felt is worth two stored in a progression? :shrug:
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: DrTalos on March 07, 2017, 02:05:43 AM
Reyth, I really admire your efforts and some of the conclusions you reached. I think you have a very mathematical mind, and your commitment to find my system is remarkable.
Many of the things that you write here are not easy to understand for me. I'd say my system is way more simple than yours, and way more easy to manage at the table.
What you still miss is the "revolutionary" idea beneath my system, but is ok because otherwise I never would be comfortable to talk about it. As you may remember, my goal was to push people toward the result of their own HG, not giving mine (I know this is unforgivable, my true and darkest sin). Took decades for me to arrange my system (yes, you are right, I wrote a lot in order to find out the best way to proceed), I don't think you or anybody else will get in a couple months. People get angry and delusional for this makes me laugh. If you could know how much money I have lost at the table before finding my HG...

I saw your video, and sure you get the boring part of my system. About the recovery, I tell you I never play quads.
I am not a very aggressive player. I am a guy easy to get emotional and I don't want to see too much units on the table. So, I try to find a way to keep my balance always under control, and the bet always surprisingly low.

Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: BlueAngel on March 07, 2017, 02:51:16 AM
Quote
I think it is also how he is able to not ever bet lower than a DS.

Who ever said he doesn't...?

Try not to be impulsive and reverse your analysis to fundamental basis...

I know that regardless of what I'm saying you'll continue repeating the same but I'm saying it anyway, perhaps after 5 years from now you would find this thread and read again what I'm saying and at that time you'd realise everything differently...

PS: The name is LINE, NOT double street or DS, it's like calling a woman ''man without dick''.
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: kav on March 07, 2017, 04:17:53 AM
BA,

See this:
How do you call it: Double-street, Line or Lane? (https://forum.roulette30.com/index.php?topic=1292.0)

Most members prefer to call it double-street
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: BlueAngel on March 07, 2017, 04:24:25 AM

What the majority thinks/does is something to be avoided, otherwise the majority would be winners and the casinos losers.
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: kav on March 07, 2017, 04:59:03 AM
BA,

Communication (words) is not something personal, it is by definition about the majority.

Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: Rinad on March 07, 2017, 05:03:29 AM

Remember Guys, Dr Talos is speaking about revolutionary concepts.
it goes beyond just playing and jumping from one serie of bets to another. nothing different about this way of playing.
he mention the fact that finding a solution to a problem just needs to be that. maybe it does not have to be so precise to the cent at all time.
when you run in deficit in your bankroll, sometime playing 2 or 3 outs within a double street can save you, and that can be repeated at different level without having to increase your main bet so much.
example. I am playing a double street right now because I need 200 \$. so i can put only a 10 \$ bet on it, which will only give me about half of what i really need, but at the same time, within that street, place a split bet,and also a straight up bet within that same street. I take a long shot on those, but because I am running towards winning this cycle, it is a pretty good bet for me to take. low risk/high reward type bet.
just a thought. great job Guys for all this work.
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: BlueAngel on March 07, 2017, 05:12:19 AM
Dr Talos, I've a question for you; Are you a vampire?
I'm asking because you have a progression which never dies, so you might as well defy death...so...?
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: Reyth on March 07, 2017, 06:19:11 AM
I'd say my system is way more simple than yours, and way more easy to manage at the table.

I will worry about simple, after I find the ultimate technique; you said you used to do alot of calculus, right?  Before you found a way to simplify it?

Quote
I am not a very aggressive player. I am a guy easy to get emotional and I don't want to see too much units on the table. So, I try to find a way to keep my balance always under control, and the bet always surprisingly low.

To my mind this idea must revolve around betting the lowest bet selection possible at all times; that's where the bet amount is always "suprisingly low".

Split: 2 ( 6 ) 2 ( 5 ) 3 ( 4 ) 3 ( 3 ) 5 ( 2 ) 9 ( 1 )
Street: 3 ( 6 ) 3 ( 5 ) 4 ( 4 ) 5 ( 3 ) 7 ( 2 ) 13 ( 1 )
Quad: 4 ( 6 ) 4 ( 5 ) 5 ( 4 ) 7 ( 3 ) 9 ( 2 ) 18 ( 1 )
DS: 5 ( 6 ) 6 ( 5 ) 8 ( 4 ) 10 ( 3 ) 15 ( 2 ) 29 ( 1 )
DS+Split: 7 / 2 ( 6 ) 8 / 2 ( 5 ) 10 / 3 ( 4 ) 13 / 4 ( 3 ) 18 / 5 ( 2 ) 36 / 9 ( 1 )
DS+Street: 7 / 3 ( 6 ) 8 / 3 ( 5 ) 10 / 4 ( 4 ) 13 / 5 ( 3 ) 18 / 8 ( 2 ) 36 / 15 ( 1 )
DS+Quad: 7 / 4 ( 6 ) 8 / 5 ( 5 ) 10 / 6 ( 4 ) 13 / 7 ( 3 ) 18 / 11 ( 2 ) 36 / 21 ( 1 )
DZ: 13 ( 6 ) 15 ( 5 ) 19 ( 4 ) 25 ( 3 ) 36 ( 2 ) 72 ( 1 )
EC: 25 ( 6 ) 30 ( 5 ) 37 ( 4 ) 49 ( 3 ) 72 ( 2 ) 143 ( 1 )
DZ+DZ 25 / 25 ( 6 ) 30 / 30 ( 5 ) 37 / 37 ( 4 ) 49 / 49 ( 3 ) 72 / 72 ( 2 ) 143 / 143 ( 1 )

Notice the difference in the bolded.  These are the bet amounts required to resolve the same debt of 141 units in 6-1 (6,5,4,3,2,1) bets for a Split vs. an EC.

Jerome and I have always been going at this from the bottom up, with the largest selection first and moving toward the smaller selections to save money; this is in itself a revolutionary idea that is unique but it also has the problem of requiring more bets to resolve a session as the debt grows higher.

So the "revolutionary" way of approaching this would be starting from a DS.  In this case the ratio is 2 and so instead of placing a bet for 29 units on a DS+Quad, the "revolutionary bet" is 15 units on a DS; this is over half the amount and definitely is suprisingly low.

So with this "revolutionary" and "counter-intuitive" method, recovery would always start with a DS and progress down the list towards the DZ+DZ bets.  This would allow for an increase in percentage chance of hitting while the debt increases, rather than a decrease in percentage chance.

So it would be like playing the Pivot backwards, starting with a straight up bet and moving up towards an EC bet.

The major problem is that there is no way to know how often (when) to increase the bet selection; a possible solution is to move up the list every time the ratio changes, which affords a "discount" in betting amount...
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: dobbelsteen on March 07, 2017, 10:39:09 AM
I also do not understand this table. On this forum, images and tables without an explanation are publiced very often.
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: Sheridan44 on March 07, 2017, 11:54:53 AM
A straight up flat bet in the beginning stages costs no more than an EC or a Dozen. And it gives you a slight chance to get way ahead at the start. I've envisioned a scheme something like first 3 bets on SU, next 2 bets on Double Street, next 5 bets on Single Streets, next 5 bets on Splits, last 10 bets on SU..... total out 25 units (all 1 unit bets). After a win at any stage you revert back to the beginning (the initial 3 shots at a SU win). You start (and restart) the "progression" each time with a possible 35-1 win.
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: Reyth on March 07, 2017, 12:30:42 PM
I also do not understand this table. On this forum, images and tables without an explanation are publiced very often.

Split: 2 ( 6 ) 2 ( 5 ) 3 ( 4 ) 3 ( 3 ) 5 ( 2 ) 9 ( 1 )
Street: 3 ( 6 ) 3 ( 5 ) 4 ( 4 ) 5 ( 3 ) 7 ( 2 ) 13 ( 1 )
Quad: 4 ( 6 ) 4 ( 5 ) 5 ( 4 ) 7 ( 3 ) 9 ( 2 ) 18 ( 1 )
DS: 5 ( 6 ) 6 ( 5 ) 8 ( 4 ) 10 ( 3 ) 15 ( 2 ) 29 ( 1 )
DS+Split: 7 / 2 ( 6 ) 8 / 2 ( 5 ) 10 / 3 ( 4 ) 13 / 4 ( 3 ) 18 / 5 ( 2 ) 36 / 9 ( 1 )
DS+Street: 7 / 3 ( 6 ) 8 / 3 ( 5 ) 10 / 4 ( 4 ) 13 / 5 ( 3 ) 18 / 8 ( 2 ) 36 / 15 ( 1 )
DS+Quad: 7 / 4 ( 6 ) 8 / 5 ( 5 ) 10 / 6 ( 4 ) 13 / 7 ( 3 ) 18 / 11 ( 2 ) 36 / 21 ( 1 )
DZ: 13 ( 6 ) 15 ( 5 ) 19 ( 4 ) 25 ( 3 ) 36 ( 2 ) 72 ( 1 )
EC: 25 ( 6 ) 30 ( 5 ) 37 ( 4 ) 49 ( 3 ) 72 ( 2 ) 143 ( 1 )
DZ+DZ 25 / 25 ( 6 ) 30 / 30 ( 5 ) 37 / 37 ( 4 ) 49 / 49 ( 3 ) 72 / 72 ( 2 ) 143 / 143 ( 1 )

Notice the difference in the bolded.  These are the bet amounts required to resolve the same debt of 141 units in 6-1 (6,5,4,3,2,1) bets for a Split vs. an EC.
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: Reyth on March 07, 2017, 12:33:55 PM
A straight up flat bet in the beginning stages costs no more than an EC or a Dozen. And it gives you a slight chance to get way ahead at the start. I've envisioned a scheme something like first 3 bets on SU, next 2 bets on Double Street, next 5 bets on Single Streets, next 5 bets on Splits, last 10 bets on SU..... total out 25 units (all 1 unit bets). After a win at any stage you revert back to the beginning (the initial 3 shots at a SU win). You start (and restart) the "progression" each time with a possible 35-1 win.

Excellent ideas.  So to apply this kind of thinking to the Talos system, we should start from where we know we have bet the same which is 0:228 and -95 units of debt.  This looks like so:

Split: 1 ( 6 ) 2 ( 5 ) 2 ( 4 ) 2 ( 3 ) 3 ( 2 ) 6 ( 1 )
Street: 2 ( 6 ) 2 ( 5 ) 3 ( 4 ) 3 ( 3 ) 5 ( 2 ) 9 ( 1 )
Quad: 3 ( 6 ) 3 ( 5 ) 4 ( 4 ) 5 ( 3 ) 7 ( 2 ) 13 ( 1 )
DS: 4 ( 6 ) 5 ( 5 ) 5 ( 4 ) 7 ( 3 ) 10 ( 2 ) 20 ( 1 )
DS+Split: 5 / 2 ( 6 ) 6 / 2 ( 5 ) 7 / 2 ( 4 ) 9 / 3 ( 3 ) 13 / 4 ( 2 ) 25 / 7 ( 1 )
DS+Street: 5 / 2 ( 6 ) 6 / 3 ( 5 ) 7 / 3 ( 4 ) 9 / 4 ( 3 ) 13 / 5 ( 2 ) 25 / 10 ( 1 )
DS+Quad: 5 / 3 ( 6 ) 6 / 3 ( 5 ) 7 / 4 ( 4 ) 9 / 5 ( 3 ) 13 / 7 ( 2 ) 25 / 14 ( 1 )
DZ: 9 ( 6 ) 11 ( 5 ) 13 ( 4 ) 17 ( 3 ) 25 ( 2 ) 49 ( 1 )
EC: 17 ( 6 ) 21 ( 5 ) 25 ( 4 ) 33 ( 3 ) 49 ( 2 ) 97 ( 1 )
DZ+DZ 17 / 17 ( 6 ) 21 / 21 ( 5 ) 25 / 25 ( 4 ) 33 / 33 ( 3 ) 49 / 49 ( 2 ) 97 / 97 ( 1 )

The ratio is 4 & the MBA is 33.  The "normal" system as Jerome & I would understand it, would call for a bet of 25 units on an EC.  If we look to the DS, we can see that the same bet can be placed for only 5 units; so let's place that bet right now.

4-DS loss  100  0 : 234 / 4  32
5-DS loss  106  0 : 240 / 5  32

Split: 2 ( 6 ) 2 ( 5 ) 2 ( 4 ) 3 ( 3 ) 4 ( 2 ) 7 ( 1 )
Street: 2 ( 6 ) 3 ( 5 ) 3 ( 4 ) 4 ( 3 ) 5 ( 2 ) 10 ( 1 )
Quad: 3 ( 6 ) 3 ( 5 ) 4 ( 4 ) 5 ( 3 ) 7 ( 2 ) 14 ( 1 )
DS: 4 ( 6 ) 5 ( 5 ) 6 ( 4 ) 8 ( 3 ) 11 ( 2 ) 22 ( 1 )
DS+Split: 5 / 2 ( 6 ) 6 / 2 ( 5 ) 7 / 2 ( 4 ) 10 / 3 ( 3 ) 14 / 4 ( 2 ) 27 / 7 ( 1 )
DS+Street: 5 / 2 ( 6 ) 6 / 3 ( 5 ) 7 / 3 ( 4 ) 10 / 4 ( 3 ) 14 / 6 ( 2 ) 27 / 11 ( 1 )
DS+Quad: 5 / 3 ( 6 ) 6 / 4 ( 5 ) 7 / 4 ( 4 ) 10 / 6 ( 3 ) 14 / 8 ( 2 ) 27 / 16 ( 1 )
DZ: 10 ( 6 ) 12 ( 5 ) 14 ( 4 ) 19 ( 3 ) 28 ( 2 ) 54 ( 1 )
EC: 19 ( 6 ) 23 ( 5 ) 28 ( 4 ) 37 ( 3 ) 55 ( 2 ) 108 ( 1 )
DZ+DZ 19 / 19 ( 6 ) 23 / 23 ( 5 ) 28 / 28 ( 4 ) 37 / 37 ( 3 ) 55 / 55 ( 2 ) 108 / 108 ( 1 )

So after 2 losses we see that ratio has changed to 5 from 4.  I think this should be a "signal" to raise our bet selection AND THIS IS AMAZING BUT we can use the 6 divisor to tell us when to raise our bets!  Keeping our bets "as low as possible" means betting the least we can AS LONG AS we stay within 6 bets of a win at all times!  Gosh its so simple, its stupid why we haven't thought of it!

EDIT: Despite my errant rant the next bet following the original logic is DS+Split for 8 units.

Ok so does anyone think he really starts with the DS and moves his way upward?  I sure don't.  But what we CAN do is always start from a divisor of 6 in our bets and I bet you that we will never reach farther downward in bets than a DS at any time!

Proof of this concept is how Level 2 functions (the Core Recovery Progression) -- it is nothing but the 6 divisor applied to DZ+DZ on every bet!

For whatever bizarre reason, we jusut assumed he did this just to keep the costs as low as possible to get a first hit; but that's how he bets the whole time!

So lets just say that with hit obtained he moves the divisor up a notch from 6 to 5 on the first hit etc.  The major difference is that we aren't betting the "literal" ratio anymore but literally 6 actual hits to debt recovery.  The divisor will also go down a notch with successive misses.

So believe it or not (with a slight fudge) that first bet from 0:228 could actually be DZ+DZ for 34 units!  More conservatively though, we would bet an EC for only 17 units and we stay at a divisor of 6 until we get our first hit and move to a divisor of 5.

Well I guess I will just mess around with this for a bit and see what happens...

10-DZ+DZ loss  20  1 : 132 / 2  34
10-DZ+DZ WIN  14  2 : 156 / 1  34
10-DZ+DZ loss  24  2 : 180 / 2  34
10-DZ+DZ WIN  16  3 : 204 / 1  34
10-DZ+DZ loss  30  3 : 228 / 1  34
10-DZ+DZ loss  54  3 : 252 / 2  33
9-EC loss  74  3 : 270 / 2  33
9-EC WIN  48  4 : 288 / 1  33
9-EC WIN  22  5 : 306 / 1  34
8-DZ loss  34  5 : 317 / 1  34
8-DZ loss  52  5 : 328 / 1  33
8-DZ loss  79  5 : 339 / 1  33
7-DS+Quad loss  112  5 : 349 / 1  32
4-DS loss  135  5 : 355 / 1  31
4-DS loss  163  5 : 361 / 2  30
6-DS+Street loss  193  5 : 370 / 2  30
4-DS WIN  93  6 : 376 / 1  32
6-DS+Street loss  123  6 : 385 / 1  31
4-DS loss  148  6 : 391 / 1  31
4-DS loss  178  6 : 397 / 1  30
4-DS loss  214  6 : 403 / 1  29
4-DS loss  258  6 : 409 / 1  28
4-DS loss  310  6 : 415 / 1  27
4-DS loss  373  6 : 421 / 2  25
4-DS loss  411  6 : 427 / 2  24
4-DS loss  453  6 : 433 / 2  23
4-DS loss  499  6 : 439 / 2  22
4-DS loss  550  6 : 445 / 2  21
4-DS loss  606  6 : 451 / 2  19
4-DS loss  667  6 : 457 / 2  18
4-DS loss  734  6 : 463 / 2  16
4-DS WIN  364  7 : 469 / 1  25
4-DS WIN -1

Ok, first of all I want to apologize for un-intentionally calling Jerome stupid as I am sure that he had already tried this in great frustration like I have just experienced.

Our gambling instincts tell us that you don't play with fire, you extinguish it as quickly as it is safe to do so, otherwise it will burn out of control.

In the end, when it burns out of control, it turns into a glorified 6-point divisor on a DS which I am sure is not the system Talos uses as we can see here the debt all too easily spiraled out of control.

For me, I have doubled my bank twice applying my instincts to the Talos principles and I am on the edge of a new enhancement to this method and I am going to simply return to where I was.

Someone else can try and pick up this thread which I am now abandoning.

And a final parting shot on this, by way of contrast:

10-DZ+DZ loss  38  1 : 132 / 2  34
10-DZ+DZ loss  78  1 : 156 / 2  33
8-DZ WIN  36  2 : 167 / 1  34
8-DZ loss  55  2 : 178 / 1  33
8-DZ WIN -1

This is how you extinguish a fire without getting burned.
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: Bayes on March 07, 2017, 12:43:00 PM
I've envisioned a scheme something like first 3 bets on SU, next 2 bets on Double Street, next 5 bets on Single Streets, next 5 bets on Splits, last 10 bets on SU..... total out 25 units (all 1 unit bets). After a win at any stage you revert back to the beginning (the initial 3 shots at a SU win). You start (and restart) the "progression" each time with a possible 35-1 win.

Hi Sheridan, the chance of a win using this sequence is 1-(36/37)13 * (31/37)2 * (34/37)5 * (35/37)5 = 75.6% which is the same as a bet on 5 double streets. In the event of loss you're down 25 units, and assuming you want to progress after losses, you have to take into account that a DS can hit several times (4, 5, or even 6), meaning that the bet could fail this many times (this is slight underestimate because it doesn't take account of the zero). I haven't worked out the details of the progression though, or how much you would be down after several losses.

I haven't really been following this thread; what size bankroll does DrTalos need, or hasn't he said?
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: Reyth on March 07, 2017, 01:54:45 PM
Remember Guys, Dr Talos is speaking about revolutionary concepts.
it goes beyond just playing and jumping from one serie of bets to another. nothing different about this way of playing.
he mention the fact that finding a solution to a problem just needs to be that. maybe it does not have to be so precise to the cent at all time.
when you run in deficit in your bankroll, sometime playing 2 or 3 outs within a double street can save you, and that can be repeated at different level without having to increase your main bet so much.
example. I am playing a double street right now because I need 200 \$. so i can put only a 10 \$ bet on it, which will only give me about half of what i really need, but at the same time, within that street, place a split bet,and also a straight up bet within that same street. I take a long shot on those, but because I am running towards winning this cycle, it is a pretty good bet for me to take. low risk/high reward type bet.
just a thought. great job Guys for all this work.

This is very interesting.  Applying the Talos principles to a DS bet, we would start with a Quad within that bet and then reduce down to a Street and then a Split & finally a S/U number to reduce costs.

On a larger scale, we could start with with a Dozen & DS.

I like the "misdirection" principle, like in my "Dream Chaser" or in "Math-U-Lette"
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: Reyth on March 07, 2017, 01:59:14 PM
@Bayes: 1400 units and the wins are 1 unit at a time & so doubling my bank twice is pretty solid.

(https://forum.roulette30.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F2.bp.blogspot.com%2F-xCfQ3rBENpk%2FUj4IdRVXg1I%2FAAAAAAAAEQA%2ForunJRgznNE%2Fs1600%2Fdst.gif&hash=4a341fb3d14f570bbb079e075c92d837)

10-DZ+DZ loss  29  1 : 108 / 1  34
9-EC loss  59  1 : 126 / 2  33
9-EC loss  90  1 : 144 / 2  32
8-DZ loss  114  1 : 155 / 2  32
8-DZ loss  144  1 : 166 / 2  31

Split: 2 ( 6 ) 2 ( 5 ) 3 ( 4 ) 3 ( 3 ) 5 ( 2 ) 9 ( 1 )
Street: 3 ( 6 ) 3 ( 5 ) 4 ( 4 ) 5 ( 3 ) 7 ( 2 ) 14 ( 1 )
Quad: 4 ( 6 ) 4 ( 5 ) 5 ( 4 ) 7 ( 3 ) 10 ( 2 ) 19 ( 1 )
DS: 6 ( 6 ) 6 ( 5 ) 8 ( 4 ) 10 ( 3 ) 15 ( 2 ) 30 ( 1 )
DS+Split: 7 / 2 ( 6 ) 8 / 2 ( 5 ) 10 / 3 ( 4 ) 13 / 4 ( 3 ) 19 / 5 ( 2 ) 37 / 10 ( 1 )
DS+Street: 7 / 3 ( 6 ) 8 / 3 ( 5 ) 10 / 4 ( 4 ) 13 / 5 ( 3 ) 19 / 8 ( 2 ) 37 / 15 ( 1 )
DS+Quad: 7 / 4 ( 6 ) 8 / 5 ( 5 ) 10 / 6 ( 4 ) 13 / 8 ( 3 ) 19 / 11 ( 2 ) 37 / 21 ( 1 )
DZ: 13 ( 6 ) 15 ( 5 ) 19 ( 4 ) 25 ( 3 ) 37 ( 2 ) 73 ( 1 )
EC: 26 ( 6 ) 30 ( 5 ) 38 ( 4 ) 50 ( 3 ) 74 ( 2 ) 146 ( 1 )
DZ+DZ 26 / 26 ( 6 ) 30 / 30 ( 5 ) 38 / 38 ( 4 ) 50 / 50 ( 3 ) 74 / 74 ( 2 ) 146 / 146 ( 1 )

Normally the bet selection called for is DS+Quad for 30 units but I decided to surf "1 Down, 1 Left" for a DZ for 25 units; for a bet amount reduction AND a bet selection increase.

8-DZ WIN  94  2 : 177 / 1  32 <=== surfing method won
6-DS+Street loss  128  2 : 186 / 2  31 <=== now its time to pay the piper, lost

Split: 2 ( 6 ) 2 ( 5 ) 2 ( 4 ) 3 ( 3 ) 4 ( 2 ) 8 ( 1 )
Street: 3 ( 6 ) 3 ( 5 ) 4 ( 4 ) 4 ( 3 ) 6 ( 2 ) 12 ( 1 )
Quad: 3 ( 6 ) 4 ( 5 ) 5 ( 4 ) 6 ( 3 ) 9 ( 2 ) 17 ( 1 )
DS: 5 ( 6 ) 6 ( 5 ) 7 ( 4 ) 9 ( 3 ) 14 ( 2 ) 26 ( 1 )
DS+Split: 6 / 2 ( 6 ) 7 / 2 ( 5 ) 9 / 3 ( 4 ) 11 / 3 ( 3 ) 17 / 5 ( 2 ) 33 / 9 ( 1 )
DS+Street: 6 / 3 ( 6 ) 7 / 3 ( 5 ) 9 / 4 ( 4 ) 11 / 5 ( 3 ) 17 / 7 ( 2 ) 33 / 13 ( 1 )
DS+Quad: 6 / 4 ( 6 ) 7 / 4 ( 5 ) 9 / 5 ( 4 ) 11 / 7 ( 3 ) 17 / 10 ( 2 ) 33 / 19 ( 1 )
DZ: 12 ( 6 ) 14 ( 5 ) 17 ( 4 ) 22 ( 3 ) 33 ( 2 ) 65 ( 1 )
EC: 23 ( 6 ) 27 ( 5 ) 34 ( 4 ) 44 ( 3 ) 66 ( 2 ) 130 ( 1 )
DZ+DZ 23 / 23 ( 6 ) 27 / 27 ( 5 ) 34 / 34 ( 4 ) 44 / 44 ( 3 ) 66 / 66 ( 2 ) 130 / 130 ( 1 )

So the ratio has changed back to 2 and the surf is up!  Normally we are called to bet DS+Quad for 27 units but we surf a DZ for 22 units.

8-DZ loss  150  2 : 197 / 2  31 <=== loss
8-DZ WIN  98  3 : 208 / 1  32 <=== we continue the same surf ratio and WIN!
5-DS+Split loss  130  3 : 216 / 1  31 <=== paying
4-DS loss  157  3 : 222 / 1  31 <=== ...
3-Quad loss  177  3 : 226 / 1  30 <==== the
3-Quad loss  200  3 : 230 / 1  30 <=== ...
3-Quad loss  226  3 : 234 / 1  29 <=== piper
3-Quad loss  255  3 : 238 / 1  28 <=== ...
2-Street loss  279  3 : 241 / 2  28 <=== Surf is up!

Split: 3 ( 6 ) 4 ( 5 ) 5 ( 4 ) 6 ( 3 ) 9 ( 2 ) 17 ( 1 )
Street: 5 ( 6 ) 6 ( 5 ) 7 ( 4 ) 9 ( 3 ) 13 ( 2 ) 26 ( 1 )
Quad: 6 ( 6 ) 8 ( 5 ) 9 ( 4 ) 12 ( 3 ) 18 ( 2 ) 36 ( 1 )
DS: 10 ( 6 ) 12 ( 5 ) 15 ( 4 ) 19 ( 3 ) 29 ( 2 ) 57 ( 1 )
DS+Split: 12 / 3 ( 6 ) 15 / 4 ( 5 ) 18 / 5 ( 4 ) 24 / 6 ( 3 ) 36 / 9 ( 2 ) 71 / 18 ( 1 )
DS+Street: 12 / 5 ( 6 ) 15 / 6 ( 5 ) 18 / 8 ( 4 ) 24 / 10 ( 3 ) 36 / 15 ( 2 ) 71 / 29 ( 1 )
DS+Quad: 12 / 7 ( 6 ) 15 / 9 ( 5 ) 18 / 11 ( 4 ) 24 / 14 ( 3 ) 36 / 21 ( 2 ) 71 / 41 ( 1 )
DZ: 24 ( 6 ) 29 ( 5 ) 36 ( 4 ) 48 ( 3 ) 71 ( 2 ) 141 ( 1 )
EC: 48 ( 6 ) 57 ( 5 ) 71 ( 4 ) 95 ( 3 ) 141 ( 2 ) 281 ( 1 )
DZ+DZ 48 / 48 ( 6 ) 57 / 57 ( 5 ) 71 / 71 ( 4 ) 95 / 95 ( 3 ) 141 / 141 ( 2 ) 281 / 281 ( 1 )

Normally we are called to bet a Quad for 18 units but we surf a DS for 19 units; so a slight increase in bet cost for an extra 2/37 chance to hit.

4-DS loss  298  3 : 247 / 2  27 <=== continue (2x37)*1
4-DS loss  319  3 : 253 / 2  27 <=== the surfing (2x37)*2
4-DS loss  341  3 : 259 / 2  26 <=== ratio (2x37)*3
4-DS WIN  226  4 : 265 / 1  29 <=== and WIN!
3-Quad loss  255  4 : 269 / 1  28 <=== pay the piper
2-Street WIN -1 <=== and WIN!

I am finding this surfing method to be quite scary because it borrows against our future and the debt mounts for each successive attempt to end the game and thus a smaller and smaller bet selection is required; i.e. there is nothing left to borrow against when the HNB calls for the game to end (1 ratio).

The hopes for this surfing method is that it will allow us to loop over and over while keeping the bets as low as possible on higher bet selections than normally would be possible; kind of like constantly using credit to fund a business in its day to day transactions that allows it to access a higher quality clientele.

Its is probably "leaving a blood trail in the water" and when the bottom falls out of both recovery stages, there will be nothing left but half a surfboard with a big bite out of it.

(https://forum.roulette30.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ftreasuregurus.com%2Febay%2FSN%2FTN%2FSN-TN0SURFBOARD.jpg&hash=798851d3e809be17a88bb19c485a6080)

Does the gain in hit percentage and usually smaller bet sizing outweigh the decreased profit & increased misses from the smaller bet selections when the HNB ratio is reduced to 1?

The major goals that spawned the surfing method are:

1) Reduce the running debt by reducing the bet costs of the initial bets in the recovery series

2) Increase the chances of ending a loss streak by consistently betting higher bet selections than would normally be called for

10-DZ+DZ loss  29  1 : 108 / 1  34
9-EC loss  59  1 : 126 / 2  33
9-EC loss  90  1 : 144 / 2  32
8-DZ loss  114  1 : 155 / 2  32
8-DZ loss  144  1 : 166 / 2  31

Split: 2 ( 6 ) 2 ( 5 ) 3 ( 4 ) 3 ( 3 ) 5 ( 2 ) 9 ( 1 )
Street: 3 ( 6 ) 3 ( 5 ) 4 ( 4 ) 5 ( 3 ) 7 ( 2 ) 14 ( 1 )
Quad: 4 ( 6 ) 4 ( 5 ) 5 ( 4 ) 7 ( 3 ) 10 ( 2 ) 19 ( 1 )
DS: 6 ( 6 ) 6 ( 5 ) 8 ( 4 ) 10 ( 3 ) 15 ( 2 ) 30 ( 1 )
DS+Split: 7 / 2 ( 6 ) 8 / 2 ( 5 ) 10 / 3 ( 4 ) 13 / 4 ( 3 ) 19 / 5 ( 2 ) 37 / 10 ( 1 )
DS+Street: 7 / 3 ( 6 ) 8 / 3 ( 5 ) 10 / 4 ( 4 ) 13 / 5 ( 3 ) 19 / 8 ( 2 ) 37 / 15 ( 1 )
DS+Quad: 7 / 4 ( 6 ) 8 / 5 ( 5 ) 10 / 6 ( 4 ) 13 / 8 ( 3 ) 19 / 11 ( 2 ) 37 / 21 ( 1 )
DZ: 13 ( 6 ) 15 ( 5 ) 19 ( 4 ) 25 ( 3 ) 37 ( 2 ) 73 ( 1 )
EC: 26 ( 6 ) 30 ( 5 ) 38 ( 4 ) 50 ( 3 ) 74 ( 2 ) 146 ( 1 )
DZ+DZ 26 / 26 ( 6 ) 30 / 30 ( 5 ) 38 / 38 ( 4 ) 50 / 50 ( 3 ) 74 / 74 ( 2 ) 146 / 146 ( 1 )

I don't feel like betting less than a DZ just yet and so surf "down and left" to DZ for 25 units.

8-DZ loss  169  1 : 177 / 2  30
8-DZ loss  198  1 : 188 / 3  30

Split: 3 ( 6 ) 3 ( 5 ) 3 ( 4 ) 4 ( 3 ) 6 ( 2 ) 12 ( 1 )
Street: 4 ( 6 ) 4 ( 5 ) 5 ( 4 ) 7 ( 3 ) 10 ( 2 ) 19 ( 1 )
Quad: 5 ( 6 ) 6 ( 5 ) 7 ( 4 ) 9 ( 3 ) 13 ( 2 ) 25 ( 1 )
DS: 7 ( 6 ) 9 ( 5 ) 11 ( 4 ) 14 ( 3 ) 21 ( 2 ) 40 ( 1 )
DS+Split: 9 / 3 ( 6 ) 11 / 3 ( 5 ) 13 / 4 ( 4 ) 17 / 5 ( 3 ) 26 / 7 ( 2 ) 50 / 13 ( 1 )
DS+Street: 9 / 4 ( 6 ) 11 / 5 ( 5 ) 13 / 6 ( 4 ) 17 / 7 ( 3 ) 26 / 11 ( 2 ) 50 / 20 ( 1 )
DS+Quad: 9 / 5 ( 6 ) 11 / 6 ( 5 ) 13 / 8 ( 4 ) 17 / 10 ( 3 ) 26 / 15 ( 2 ) 50 / 29 ( 1 )
DZ: 18 ( 6 ) 21 ( 5 ) 26 ( 4 ) 34 ( 3 ) 51 ( 2 ) 100 ( 1 )
EC: 35 ( 6 ) 41 ( 5 ) 51 ( 4 ) 68 ( 3 ) 101 ( 2 ) 200 ( 1 )
DZ+DZ 35 / 35 ( 6 ) 41 / 41 ( 5 ) 51 / 51 ( 4 ) 68 / 68 ( 3 ) 101 / 101 ( 2 ) 200 / 200 ( 1 )

Since the ratio is now 3, I simply repeat the maneuver but now for "1 more left" which is 26 units.

8-DZ loss  224  1 : 199 / 3  29
8-DZ WIN  166  2 : 210 / 2  30
<=== 0:100 and surf is up!

Split: 2 ( 6 ) 3 ( 5 ) 3 ( 4 ) 4 ( 3 ) 5 ( 2 ) 10 ( 1 )
Street: 3 ( 6 ) 4 ( 5 ) 4 ( 4 ) 6 ( 3 ) 8 ( 2 ) 16 ( 1 )
Quad: 4 ( 6 ) 5 ( 5 ) 6 ( 4 ) 8 ( 3 ) 11 ( 2 ) 21 ( 1 )
DS: 6 ( 6 ) 7 ( 5 ) 9 ( 4 ) 12 ( 3 ) 17 ( 2 ) 34 ( 1 )
DS+Split: 8 / 2 ( 6 ) 9 / 3 ( 5 ) 11 / 3 ( 4 ) 15 / 4 ( 3 ) 22 / 6 ( 2 ) 42 / 11 ( 1 )
DS+Street: 8 / 3 ( 6 ) 9 / 4 ( 5 ) 11 / 5 ( 4 ) 15 / 6 ( 3 ) 22 / 9 ( 2 ) 42 / 17 ( 1 )
DS+Quad: 8 / 5 ( 6 ) 9 / 5 ( 5 ) 11 / 7 ( 4 ) 15 / 9 ( 3 ) 22 / 13 ( 2 ) 42 / 24 ( 1 )
DZ: 15 ( 6 ) 18 ( 5 ) 22 ( 4 ) 29 ( 3 ) 43 ( 2 ) 84 ( 1 )
EC: 29 ( 6 ) 35 ( 5 ) 43 ( 4 ) 57 ( 3 ) 85 ( 2 ) 168 ( 1 )
DZ+DZ 29 / 29 ( 6 ) 35 / 35 ( 5 ) 43 / 43 ( 4 ) 57 / 57 ( 3 ) 85 / 85 ( 2 ) 168 / 168 ( 1 )

I surf to DZ for 29 units.

8-DZ loss  195  2 : 221 / 2  30

Split: 2 ( 6 ) 3 ( 5 ) 3 ( 4 ) 4 ( 3 ) 6 ( 2 ) 12 ( 1 )
Street: 4 ( 6 ) 4 ( 5 ) 5 ( 4 ) 7 ( 3 ) 9 ( 2 ) 18 ( 1 )
Quad: 5 ( 6 ) 6 ( 5 ) 7 ( 4 ) 9 ( 3 ) 13 ( 2 ) 25 ( 1 )
DS: 7 ( 6 ) 9 ( 5 ) 10 ( 4 ) 14 ( 3 ) 20 ( 2 ) 40 ( 1 )
DS+Split: 9 / 3 ( 6 ) 11 / 3 ( 5 ) 13 / 4 ( 4 ) 17 / 5 ( 3 ) 25 / 7 ( 2 ) 50 / 13 ( 1 )
DS+Street: 9 / 4 ( 6 ) 11 / 5 ( 5 ) 13 / 5 ( 4 ) 17 / 7 ( 3 ) 25 / 10 ( 2 ) 50 / 20 ( 1 )
DS+Quad: 9 / 5 ( 6 ) 11 / 6 ( 5 ) 13 / 8 ( 4 ) 17 / 10 ( 3 ) 25 / 15 ( 2 ) 50 / 29 ( 1 )
DZ: 17 ( 6 ) 21 ( 5 ) 25 ( 4 ) 34 ( 3 ) 50 ( 2 ) 99 ( 1 )
EC: 34 ( 6 ) 41 ( 5 ) 50 ( 4 ) 67 ( 3 ) 99 ( 2 ) 197 ( 1 )
DZ+DZ 34 / 34 ( 6 ) 41 / 41 ( 5 ) 50 / 50 ( 4 ) 67 / 67 ( 3 ) 99 / 99 ( 2 ) 197 / 197 ( 1 )

With a ratio of 2 and a MBA of 30, the bet called for is a DS for 20 units but I surf instead.

7-DS+Quad WIN  132  3 : 231 / 1  31
4-DS loss  159  3 : 237 / 1  31 <=== paying
3-Quad loss  180  3 : 241 / 2  30 <=== the piper; last ditch effort for the win

Split: 2 ( 6 ) 3 ( 5 ) 3 ( 4 ) 4 ( 3 ) 6 ( 2 ) 11 ( 1 )
Street: 3 ( 6 ) 4 ( 5 ) 5 ( 4 ) 6 ( 3 ) 9 ( 2 ) 17 ( 1 )
Quad: 4 ( 6 ) 5 ( 5 ) 6 ( 4 ) 8 ( 3 ) 12 ( 2 ) 23 ( 1 )
DS: 7 ( 6 ) 8 ( 5 ) 10 ( 4 ) 13 ( 3 ) 19 ( 2 ) 37 ( 1 )
DS+Split: 8 / 2 ( 6 ) 10 / 3 ( 5 ) 12 / 3 ( 4 ) 16 / 4 ( 3 ) 23 / 6 ( 2 ) 46 / 12 ( 1 )
DS+Street: 8 / 4 ( 6 ) 10 / 4 ( 5 ) 12 / 5 ( 4 ) 16 / 7 ( 3 ) 23 / 10 ( 2 ) 46 / 19 ( 1 )
DS+Quad: 8 / 5 ( 6 ) 10 / 6 ( 5 ) 12 / 7 ( 4 ) 16 / 9 ( 3 ) 23 / 14 ( 2 ) 46 / 26 ( 1 )
DZ: 16 ( 6 ) 19 ( 5 ) 24 ( 4 ) 31 ( 3 ) 46 ( 2 ) 91 ( 1 )
EC: 32 ( 6 ) 38 ( 5 ) 47 ( 4 ) 62 ( 3 ) 92 ( 2 ) 182 ( 1 )
DZ+DZ 32 / 32 ( 6 ) 38 / 38 ( 5 ) 47 / 47 ( 4 ) 62 / 62 ( 3 ) 92 / 92 ( 2 ) 182 / 182 ( 1 )

DS+Split for 29 units is called for but I surf to DS+Street instead for 23 units.

6-DS+Street loss  203  3 : 250 / 2  29 <=== continue
6-DS+Street WIN  120  4 : 259 / 1  32 <=== the surf ratio
4-DS loss  145  4 : 265 / 1  31 <=== follow
4-DS loss  175  4 : 271 / 1  30 <=== the MBA
3-Quad WIN -1  <=== for the win!

LLLWLLLLLLLLWLWLLLWLLW 5:22

At least I have some flexibility to fight the MBA's constant pull downward on the bet selection.  I let the MBA have its way as long as the ratio is 1 for the immediate win, otherwise I fight it every step of the way and I ended up never betting less than a DS+Street.

(https://forum.roulette30.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi66.tinypic.com%2F15fi108.jpg&hash=2635386a8b120cc7fda6401c1f89025d)

The HNB (Hit Numbers Bet ratio) governs how much is bet on each spin but will overwhelm the balance during the worst variance.  The MBA (Max Bet Allowed) was introduced to limit the pull of the HNB by putting a cap on how much can be bet on a single spin.  Because of its ability to limit the amount that can be bet, the MBA also forces the bet selection to shrink in order to accomodate the shrinking budget.  Ratio Surfing was introduced to mitigate the MBA's direct pull on the HNB during times of debt recovery so that the largest possible bet selection can be had at the least possible cost.  All three "take turns" leading the pull depending on game conditions; the HNB leads until its demands exceed the limits set by the MBA which then pulls the bet selection downward.  Ratio Surfing is applied to limit the downward pull of the MBA during recovery.  All 3 pull in their own unique way to minimize betting amounts.

10-DZ+DZ loss  38  1 : 132 / 2  34
9-EC loss  59  1 : 150 / 2  33
9-EC WIN  28  2 : 168 / 1  34
9-EC loss  57  2 : 186 / 2  33
9-EC loss  87  2 : 204 / 2  32

Split: 1 ( 6 ) 2 ( 5 ) 2 ( 4 ) 2 ( 3 ) 3 ( 2 ) 6 ( 1 )
Street: 2 ( 6 ) 2 ( 5 ) 3 ( 4 ) 3 ( 3 ) 5 ( 2 ) 9 ( 1 )
Quad: 2 ( 6 ) 3 ( 5 ) 3 ( 4 ) 4 ( 3 ) 6 ( 2 ) 12 ( 1 )
DS: 4 ( 6 ) 4 ( 5 ) 5 ( 4 ) 7 ( 3 ) 9 ( 2 ) 18 ( 1 )
DS+Split: 4 / 1 ( 6 ) 5 / 2 ( 5 ) 6 / 2 ( 4 ) 8 / 2 ( 3 ) 12 / 3 ( 2 ) 23 / 6 ( 1 )
DS+Street: 4 / 2 ( 6 ) 5 / 2 ( 5 ) 6 / 3 ( 4 ) 8 / 4 ( 3 ) 12 / 5 ( 2 ) 23 / 9 ( 1 )
DS+Quad: 4 / 3 ( 6 ) 5 / 3 ( 5 ) 6 / 4 ( 4 ) 8 / 5 ( 3 ) 12 / 7 ( 2 ) 23 / 13 ( 1 )
DZ: 8 ( 6 ) 10 ( 5 ) 12 ( 4 ) 16 ( 3 ) 23 ( 2 ) 45 ( 1 )
EC: 16 ( 6 ) 19 ( 5 ) 23 ( 4 ) 31 ( 3 ) 45 ( 2 ) 89 ( 1 )
DZ+DZ 16 / 16 ( 6 ) 19 / 19 ( 5 ) 23 / 23 ( 4 ) 31 / 31 ( 3 ) 45 / 45 ( 2 ) 89 / 89 ( 1 )

With a ratio of 2 and an MBA of 32, DZ for 23 units is called for but I surf "down and left" to EC for 31 units.

9-EC loss  118  2 : 222 / 2  32
8-DZ loss  149  2 : 233 / 2  31
<=== EC is too expensive to surf

Split: 2 ( 6 ) 2 ( 5 ) 3 ( 4 ) 3 ( 3 ) 5 ( 2 ) 9 ( 1 )
Street: 3 ( 6 ) 3 ( 5 ) 4 ( 4 ) 5 ( 3 ) 7 ( 2 ) 14 ( 1 )
Quad: 4 ( 6 ) 4 ( 5 ) 5 ( 4 ) 7 ( 3 ) 10 ( 2 ) 19 ( 1 )
DS: 6 ( 6 ) 7 ( 5 ) 8 ( 4 ) 11 ( 3 ) 16 ( 2 ) 31 ( 1 )
DS+Split: 7 / 2 ( 6 ) 8 / 2 ( 5 ) 10 / 3 ( 4 ) 13 / 4 ( 3 ) 19 / 5 ( 2 ) 38 / 10 ( 1 )
DS+Street: 7 / 3 ( 6 ) 8 / 4 ( 5 ) 10 / 4 ( 4 ) 13 / 6 ( 3 ) 19 / 8 ( 2 ) 38 / 16 ( 1 )
DS+Quad: 7 / 4 ( 6 ) 8 / 5 ( 5 ) 10 / 6 ( 4 ) 13 / 8 ( 3 ) 19 / 11 ( 2 ) 38 / 22 ( 1 )
DZ: 13 ( 6 ) 16 ( 5 ) 20 ( 4 ) 26 ( 3 ) 38 ( 2 ) 76 ( 1 )
EC: 26 ( 6 ) 31 ( 5 ) 39 ( 4 ) 51 ( 3 ) 76 ( 2 ) 151 ( 1 )
DZ+DZ 26 / 26 ( 6 ) 31 / 31 ( 5 ) 39 / 39 ( 4 ) 51 / 51 ( 3 ) 76 / 76 ( 2 ) 151 / 151 ( 1 )

DS+Quad for 30 units is called for but I surf to DZ for 26 units.

8-DZ loss  175  2 : 244 / 3  30
8-DZ WIN  115  3 : 255 / 2  32
<=== continue surf ratio

Split: 2 ( 6 ) 2 ( 5 ) 2 ( 4 ) 3 ( 3 ) 4 ( 2 ) 7 ( 1 )
Street: 2 ( 6 ) 3 ( 5 ) 3 ( 4 ) 4 ( 3 ) 6 ( 2 ) 11 ( 1 )
Quad: 3 ( 6 ) 4 ( 5 ) 4 ( 4 ) 5 ( 3 ) 8 ( 2 ) 15 ( 1 )
DS: 5 ( 6 ) 5 ( 5 ) 6 ( 4 ) 8 ( 3 ) 12 ( 2 ) 24 ( 1 )
DS+Split: 6 / 2 ( 6 ) 7 / 2 ( 5 ) 8 / 2 ( 4 ) 10 / 3 ( 3 ) 15 / 4 ( 2 ) 30 / 8 ( 1 )
DS+Street: 6 / 3 ( 6 ) 7 / 3 ( 5 ) 8 / 3 ( 4 ) 10 / 4 ( 3 ) 15 / 6 ( 2 ) 30 / 12 ( 1 )
DS+Quad: 6 / 3 ( 6 ) 7 / 4 ( 5 ) 8 / 5 ( 4 ) 10 / 6 ( 3 ) 15 / 9 ( 2 ) 30 / 17 ( 1 )
DZ: 11 ( 6 ) 13 ( 5 ) 15 ( 4 ) 20 ( 3 ) 30 ( 2 ) 59 ( 1 )
EC: 21 ( 6 ) 25 ( 5 ) 30 ( 4 ) 40 ( 3 ) 59 ( 2 ) 117 ( 1 )
DZ+DZ 21 / 21 ( 6 ) 25 / 25 ( 5 ) 30 / 30 ( 4 ) 40 / 40 ( 3 ) 59 / 59 ( 2 ) 117 / 117 ( 1 )

I cannot surf here because the EC is too expensive for 40 units.  The natural DZ for 30 units is just fine.

8-DZ WIN  55  4 : 266 / 1  33
8-DZ loss  83  4 : 277 / 1  32
<=== Following the MBA at ratio of 1
6-DS+Street loss  114  4 : 286 / 1  32 <===
4-DS loss  138  4 : 292 / 1  31 <===
4-DS loss  166  4 : 298 / 1  30 <===
3-Quad loss  187  4 : 302 / 2  30 <=== final ditch effort for profit

Split: 2 ( 6 ) 3 ( 5 ) 3 ( 4 ) 4 ( 3 ) 6 ( 2 ) 12 ( 1 )
Street: 3 ( 6 ) 4 ( 5 ) 5 ( 4 ) 6 ( 3 ) 9 ( 2 ) 18 ( 1 )
Quad: 5 ( 6 ) 5 ( 5 ) 6 ( 4 ) 8 ( 3 ) 12 ( 2 ) 24 ( 1 )
DS: 7 ( 6 ) 8 ( 5 ) 10 ( 4 ) 13 ( 3 ) 19 ( 2 ) 38 ( 1 )
DS+Split: 9 / 3 ( 6 ) 10 / 3 ( 5 ) 12 / 3 ( 4 ) 16 / 4 ( 3 ) 24 / 6 ( 2 ) 48 / 12 ( 1 )
DS+Street: 9 / 4 ( 6 ) 10 / 4 ( 5 ) 12 / 5 ( 4 ) 16 / 7 ( 3 ) 24 / 10 ( 2 ) 48 / 19 ( 1 )
DS+Quad: 9 / 5 ( 6 ) 10 / 6 ( 5 ) 12 / 7 ( 4 ) 16 / 10 ( 3 ) 24 / 14 ( 2 ) 48 / 27 ( 1 )
DZ: 17 ( 6 ) 20 ( 5 ) 24 ( 4 ) 32 ( 3 ) 48 ( 2 ) 95 ( 1 )
EC: 33 ( 6 ) 39 ( 5 ) 48 ( 4 ) 64 ( 3 ) 95 ( 2 ) 189 ( 1 )
DZ+DZ 33 / 33 ( 6 ) 39 / 39 ( 5 ) 48 / 48 ( 4 ) 64 / 64 ( 3 ) 95 / 95 ( 2 ) 189 / 189 ( 1 )

DS+Split is called for at 30 units but I surf to DS+Street for 23 units.

6-DS+Street WIN  126  5 : 311 / 1  31
4-DS loss  152  5 : 317 / 1  31
4-DS loss  183  5 : 323 / 1  30 <=== ratio of 1
3-Quad WIN  -1 <=== for the win

10-DZ+DZ WIN  28  2 : 228 / 2  34 <=== 0:180
10-DZ+DZ loss  60  2 : 252 / 3  33
9-EC loss  82  2 : 270 / 3  32
9-EC loss  111  2 : 288 / 3  32

Split: 2 ( 6 ) 2 ( 5 ) 2 ( 4 ) 3 ( 3 ) 4 ( 2 ) 7 ( 1 )
Street: 2 ( 6 ) 3 ( 5 ) 3 ( 4 ) 4 ( 3 ) 6 ( 2 ) 11 ( 1 )
Quad: 3 ( 6 ) 3 ( 5 ) 4 ( 4 ) 5 ( 3 ) 8 ( 2 ) 15 ( 1 )
DS: 4 ( 6 ) 5 ( 5 ) 6 ( 4 ) 8 ( 3 ) 12 ( 2 ) 23 ( 1 )
DS+Split: 5 / 2 ( 6 ) 6 / 2 ( 5 ) 8 / 2 ( 4 ) 10 / 3 ( 3 ) 15 / 4 ( 2 ) 29 / 8 ( 1 )
DS+Street: 5 / 2 ( 6 ) 6 / 3 ( 5 ) 8 / 3 ( 4 ) 10 / 4 ( 3 ) 15 / 6 ( 2 ) 29 / 12 ( 1 )
DS+Quad: 5 / 3 ( 6 ) 6 / 4 ( 5 ) 8 / 5 ( 4 ) 10 / 6 ( 3 ) 15 / 9 ( 2 ) 29 / 17 ( 1 )
DZ: 10 ( 6 ) 12 ( 5 ) 15 ( 4 ) 20 ( 3 ) 29 ( 2 ) 57 ( 1 )
EC: 20 ( 6 ) 24 ( 5 ) 29 ( 4 ) 39 ( 3 ) 57 ( 2 ) 113 ( 1 )
DZ+DZ 20 / 20 ( 6 ) 24 / 24 ( 5 ) 29 / 29 ( 4 ) 39 / 39 ( 3 ) 57 / 57 ( 2 ) 113 / 113 ( 1 )

9-EC WIN  82  3 : 306 / 3  32
9-EC WIN  53  4 : 324 / 2  33
9-EC loss  81  4 : 342 / 2  32

Split: 1 ( 6 ) 2 ( 5 ) 2 ( 4 ) 2 ( 3 ) 3 ( 2 ) 5 ( 1 )
Street: 2 ( 6 ) 2 ( 5 ) 2 ( 4 ) 3 ( 3 ) 4 ( 2 ) 8 ( 1 )
Quad: 2 ( 6 ) 3 ( 5 ) 3 ( 4 ) 4 ( 3 ) 6 ( 2 ) 11 ( 1 )
DS: 3 ( 6 ) 4 ( 5 ) 5 ( 4 ) 6 ( 3 ) 9 ( 2 ) 17 ( 1 )
DS+Split: 4 / 1 ( 6 ) 5 / 2 ( 5 ) 6 / 2 ( 4 ) 8 / 2 ( 3 ) 11 / 3 ( 2 ) 21 / 6 ( 1 )
DS+Street: 4 / 2 ( 6 ) 5 / 2 ( 5 ) 6 / 3 ( 4 ) 8 / 3 ( 3 ) 11 / 5 ( 2 ) 21 / 9 ( 1 )
DS+Quad: 4 / 3 ( 6 ) 5 / 3 ( 5 ) 6 / 4 ( 4 ) 8 / 5 ( 3 ) 11 / 6 ( 2 ) 21 / 12 ( 1 )
DZ: 8 ( 6 ) 9 ( 5 ) 11 ( 4 ) 15 ( 3 ) 21 ( 2 ) 42 ( 1 )
EC: 15 ( 6 ) 18 ( 5 ) 22 ( 4 ) 29 ( 3 ) 42 ( 2 ) 83 ( 1 )
DZ+DZ 15 / 15 ( 6 ) 18 / 18 ( 5 ) 22 / 22 ( 4 ) 29 / 29 ( 3 ) 42 / 42 ( 2 ) 83 / 83 ( 1 )

9-EC WIN  52  5 : 360 / 2  33
9-EC loss  80  5 : 378 / 2  33

Split: 1 ( 6 ) 2 ( 5 ) 2 ( 4 ) 2 ( 3 ) 3 ( 2 ) 5 ( 1 )
Street: 2 ( 6 ) 2 ( 5 ) 2 ( 4 ) 3 ( 3 ) 4 ( 2 ) 8 ( 1 )
Quad: 2 ( 6 ) 3 ( 5 ) 3 ( 4 ) 4 ( 3 ) 6 ( 2 ) 11 ( 1 )
DS: 3 ( 6 ) 4 ( 5 ) 5 ( 4 ) 6 ( 3 ) 9 ( 2 ) 17 ( 1 )
DS+Split: 4 / 1 ( 6 ) 5 / 2 ( 5 ) 6 / 2 ( 4 ) 7 / 2 ( 3 ) 11 / 3 ( 2 ) 21 / 6 ( 1 )
DS+Street: 4 / 2 ( 6 ) 5 / 2 ( 5 ) 6 / 3 ( 4 ) 7 / 3 ( 3 ) 11 / 5 ( 2 ) 21 / 9 ( 1 )
DS+Quad: 4 / 3 ( 6 ) 5 / 3 ( 5 ) 6 / 4 ( 4 ) 7 / 4 ( 3 ) 11 / 6 ( 2 ) 21 / 12 ( 1 )
DZ: 8 ( 6 ) 9 ( 5 ) 11 ( 4 ) 14 ( 3 ) 21 ( 2 ) 41 ( 1 )
EC: 15 ( 6 ) 18 ( 5 ) 22 ( 4 ) 28 ( 3 ) 42 ( 2 ) 82 ( 1 )
DZ+DZ 15 / 15 ( 6 ) 18 / 18 ( 5 ) 22 / 22 ( 4 ) 28 / 28 ( 3 ) 42 / 42 ( 2 ) 82 / 82 ( 1 )

9-EC loss  108  5 : 396 / 2  32
8-DZ loss  136  5 : 407 / 2  31 <== EC too expensive to surf

Split: 2 ( 6 ) 2 ( 5 ) 3 ( 4 ) 3 ( 3 ) 5 ( 2 ) 9 ( 1 )
Street: 3 ( 6 ) 3 ( 5 ) 4 ( 4 ) 5 ( 3 ) 7 ( 2 ) 13 ( 1 )
Quad: 3 ( 6 ) 4 ( 5 ) 5 ( 4 ) 6 ( 3 ) 9 ( 2 ) 18 ( 1 )
DS: 5 ( 6 ) 6 ( 5 ) 8 ( 4 ) 10 ( 3 ) 14 ( 2 ) 28 ( 1 )
DS+Split: 6 / 2 ( 6 ) 8 / 2 ( 5 ) 9 / 3 ( 4 ) 12 / 3 ( 3 ) 18 / 5 ( 2 ) 35 / 9 ( 1 )
DS+Street: 6 / 3 ( 6 ) 8 / 3 ( 5 ) 9 / 4 ( 4 ) 12 / 5 ( 3 ) 18 / 7 ( 2 ) 35 / 14 ( 1 )
DS+Quad: 6 / 4 ( 6 ) 8 / 5 ( 5 ) 9 / 6 ( 4 ) 12 / 7 ( 3 ) 18 / 10 ( 2 ) 35 / 20 ( 1 )
DZ: 12 ( 6 ) 15 ( 5 ) 18 ( 4 ) 24 ( 3 ) 35 ( 2 ) 69 ( 1 )
EC: 24 ( 6 ) 29 ( 5 ) 36 ( 4 ) 47 ( 3 ) 70 ( 2 ) 138 ( 1 )
DZ+DZ 24 / 24 ( 6 ) 29 / 29 ( 5 ) 36 / 36 ( 4 ) 47 / 47 ( 3 ) 70 / 70 ( 2 ) 138 / 138 ( 1 )

8-DZ WIN  88  6 : 418 / 1  32
6-DS+Street loss  120  6 : 427 / 2  32 <=== follow the MBA ratio 1
8-DZ loss  151  6 : 438 / 2  31 <=== ratio change brought natural DZ

Split: 2 ( 6 ) 2 ( 5 ) 3 ( 4 ) 4 ( 3 ) 5 ( 2 ) 9 ( 1 )
Street: 3 ( 6 ) 3 ( 5 ) 4 ( 4 ) 5 ( 3 ) 7 ( 2 ) 14 ( 1 )
Quad: 4 ( 6 ) 4 ( 5 ) 5 ( 4 ) 7 ( 3 ) 10 ( 2 ) 20 ( 1 )
DS: 6 ( 6 ) 7 ( 5 ) 8 ( 4 ) 11 ( 3 ) 16 ( 2 ) 31 ( 1 )
DS+Split: 7 / 2 ( 6 ) 8 / 2 ( 5 ) 10 / 3 ( 4 ) 13 / 4 ( 3 ) 20 / 5 ( 2 ) 39 / 10 ( 1 )
DS+Street: 7 / 3 ( 6 ) 8 / 4 ( 5 ) 10 / 4 ( 4 ) 13 / 6 ( 3 ) 20 / 8 ( 2 ) 39 / 16 ( 1 )
DS+Quad: 7 / 4 ( 6 ) 8 / 5 ( 5 ) 10 / 6 ( 4 ) 13 / 8 ( 3 ) 20 / 11 ( 2 ) 39 / 22 ( 1 )
DZ: 14 ( 6 ) 16 ( 5 ) 20 ( 4 ) 26 ( 3 ) 39 ( 2 ) 77 ( 1 )
EC: 27 ( 6 ) 32 ( 5 ) 39 ( 4 ) 52 ( 3 ) 77 ( 2 ) 153 ( 1 )
DZ+DZ 27 / 27 ( 6 ) 32 / 32 ( 5 ) 39 / 39 ( 4 ) 52 / 52 ( 3 ) 77 / 77 ( 2 ) 153 / 153 ( 1 )

8-DZ WIN  99  7 : 449 / 1  32
4-DS loss  120  7 : 455 / 1  32 <=== Follow the MBA ratio 1
4-DS loss  145  7 : 461 / 1  31 <===
4-DS loss  175  7 : 467 / 1  30 <===
3-Quad loss  198  7 : 471 / 1  30 <===
3-Quad loss  223  7 : 475 / 1  29 <===
3-Quad WIN -1 <=== 30 total numbers bet
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: jerome26b on March 07, 2017, 09:53:18 PM
"my goal was to push people toward the result of their own HG, not giving mine (I know this is unforgivable, my true and darkest sin). Took decades for me to arrange my system (yes, you are right, I wrote a lot in order to find out the best way to proceed), I don't think you or anybody else will get in a couple months. People get angry and delusional for this makes me laugh. If you could know how much money I have lost at the table before finding my HG..."

Let's be clear MrTalos I like the way your "hypothetical" system is, i admit the clues you gave met a big embracement from me cause I was really in focus once with what someone says on a forum. It's the reason I tried to pursue your system given your clues. I still respect you in some ways for many reasons even if I'm not sure you're an imposteur or not... but not the most important right now and at the end. What I don't really like it's the last sentence I'm answering that is relying about lot of frustrations, you always beg that you will not explain because and because and because and at the end you are so smart that you deserve it cause you worked so hard for it and then and then .. . It's your right but stop telling again and again the same story that prove you're so smart that nobody will find your system. I had the feeling that you sometimes elected this forum to just show you muscles and then deny it.

So that was my last remark about that I'm more interrested now about your still supposed system and the way Reyth is working on it. At this moment I will take some honor for myself but I already undertstood some conclusions before Reyth had them (probably cause I worked more myself on your clues with real spins). and about your last post all things ar clear for me except of course the last one About your 'revolutionnary' idea about the progression you use.

I know it's the key and playing with numbers the way Reyth is playing will not give the solution shortly. So sometimes I like to do brainstorming around that concept maybe I will find and idea different that you and revolutionary too who knows ?

Still good you react on this topic anyway despite all criticism I did and others, proof you're someway openmind . I respect that in someway and I'm always aware about future interractions.

Jerome
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: Reyth on March 07, 2017, 10:04:14 PM
10-DZ+DZ loss  37  1 : 156 / 2  34
9-EC WIN  17  2 : 174 / 1  34
9-EC loss  36  2 : 192 / 2  34

Split: 1 ( 6 ) 1 ( 5 ) 1 ( 4 ) 1 ( 3 ) 2 ( 2 ) 3 ( 1 )
Street: 1 ( 6 ) 1 ( 5 ) 1 ( 4 ) 2 ( 3 ) 2 ( 2 ) 4 ( 1 )
Quad: 1 ( 6 ) 2 ( 5 ) 2 ( 4 ) 2 ( 3 ) 3 ( 2 ) 5 ( 1 )
DS: 2 ( 6 ) 2 ( 5 ) 3 ( 4 ) 3 ( 3 ) 4 ( 2 ) 8 ( 1 )
DS+Split: 2 / 1 ( 6 ) 3 / 1 ( 5 ) 3 / 1 ( 4 ) 4 / 1 ( 3 ) 5 / 2 ( 2 ) 10 / 3 ( 1 )
DS+Street: 2 / 1 ( 6 ) 3 / 1 ( 5 ) 3 / 2 ( 4 ) 4 / 2 ( 3 ) 5 / 2 ( 2 ) 10 / 4 ( 1 )
DS+Quad: 2 / 2 ( 6 ) 3 / 2 ( 5 ) 3 / 2 ( 4 ) 4 / 2 ( 3 ) 5 / 3 ( 2 ) 10 / 6 ( 1 )
DZ: 4 ( 6 ) 5 ( 5 ) 6 ( 4 ) 7 ( 3 ) 10 ( 2 ) 19 ( 1 )
EC: 8 ( 6 ) 9 ( 5 ) 11 ( 4 ) 14 ( 3 ) 20 ( 2 ) 38 ( 1 )
DZ+DZ 8 / 8 ( 6 ) 9 / 9 ( 5 ) 11 / 11 ( 4 ) 14 / 14 ( 3 ) 20 / 20 ( 2 ) 38 / 38 ( 1 )

10-DZ+DZ loss  64  2 : 216 / 2  33 <=== Surfed for the DZ+DZ!

Split: 1 ( 6 ) 1 ( 5 ) 2 ( 4 ) 2 ( 3 ) 2 ( 2 ) 4 ( 1 )
Street: 2 ( 6 ) 2 ( 5 ) 2 ( 4 ) 3 ( 3 ) 4 ( 2 ) 6 ( 1 )
Quad: 2 ( 6 ) 2 ( 5 ) 3 ( 4 ) 3 ( 3 ) 5 ( 2 ) 9 ( 1 )
DS: 3 ( 6 ) 3 ( 5 ) 4 ( 4 ) 5 ( 3 ) 7 ( 2 ) 14 ( 1 )
DS+Split: 3 / 1 ( 6 ) 4 / 1 ( 5 ) 5 / 2 ( 4 ) 6 / 2 ( 3 ) 9 / 3 ( 2 ) 17 / 5 ( 1 )
DS+Street: 3 / 2 ( 6 ) 4 / 2 ( 5 ) 5 / 2 ( 4 ) 6 / 3 ( 3 ) 9 / 4 ( 2 ) 17 / 7 ( 1 )
DS+Quad: 3 / 2 ( 6 ) 4 / 2 ( 5 ) 5 / 3 ( 4 ) 6 / 4 ( 3 ) 9 / 5 ( 2 ) 17 / 10 ( 1 )
DZ: 6 ( 6 ) 7 ( 5 ) 9 ( 4 ) 12 ( 3 ) 17 ( 2 ) 33 ( 1 )
EC: 12 ( 6 ) 14 ( 5 ) 18 ( 4 ) 23 ( 3 ) 34 ( 2 ) 66 ( 1 )
DZ+DZ 12 / 12 ( 6 ) 14 / 14 ( 5 ) 18 / 18 ( 4 ) 23 / 23 ( 3 ) 34 / 34 ( 2 ) 66 / 66 ( 1 )

9-EC WIN  41  3 : 234 / 1  33
8-DZ loss  63  3 : 245 / 2  33 <=== EC too expensive to surf
9-EC WIN  30  4 : 263 / 1  34 <=== ratio change brought natural EC
9-EC WIN -1

10-DZ+DZ loss  29  1 : 108 / 1  34
9-EC loss  59  1 : 126 / 2  33
9-EC WIN  28  2 : 144 / 1  34
9-EC loss  57  2 : 162 / 1  33
8-DZ loss  87  2 : 173 / 1  32 <=== EC too expensive to surf
6-DS+Street loss  119  2 : 182 / 2  32 <=== last ditch effort at profit
8-DZ loss  150  2 : 193 / 2  31  <=== natural DZ

Split: 2 ( 6 ) 2 ( 5 ) 3 ( 4 ) 4 ( 3 ) 5 ( 2 ) 9 ( 1 )
Street: 3 ( 6 ) 3 ( 5 ) 4 ( 4 ) 5 ( 3 ) 7 ( 2 ) 14 ( 1 )
Quad: 4 ( 6 ) 4 ( 5 ) 5 ( 4 ) 7 ( 3 ) 10 ( 2 ) 19 ( 1 )
DS: 6 ( 6 ) 7 ( 5 ) 8 ( 4 ) 11 ( 3 ) 16 ( 2 ) 31 ( 1 )
DS+Split: 7 / 2 ( 6 ) 8 / 2 ( 5 ) 10 / 3 ( 4 ) 13 / 4 ( 3 ) 20 / 5 ( 2 ) 38 / 10 ( 1 )
DS+Street: 7 / 3 ( 6 ) 8 / 4 ( 5 ) 10 / 4 ( 4 ) 13 / 6 ( 3 ) 20 / 8 ( 2 ) 38 / 16 ( 1 )
DS+Quad: 7 / 4 ( 6 ) 8 / 5 ( 5 ) 10 / 6 ( 4 ) 13 / 8 ( 3 ) 20 / 11 ( 2 ) 38 / 22 ( 1 )
DZ: 14 ( 6 ) 16 ( 5 ) 20 ( 4 ) 26 ( 3 ) 39 ( 2 ) 76 ( 1 )
EC: 27 ( 6 ) 32 ( 5 ) 39 ( 4 ) 52 ( 3 ) 77 ( 2 ) 152 ( 1 )
DZ+DZ 27 / 27 ( 6 ) 32 / 32 ( 5 ) 39 / 39 ( 4 ) 52 / 52 ( 3 ) 77 / 77 ( 2 ) 152 / 152 ( 1 )

8-DZ WIN  98  3 : 204 / 1  32
5-DS+Split loss  130  3 : 212 / 1  31 <=== Follow MBA ratio 1
4-DS loss  157  3 : 218 / 1  31 <===
3-Quad loss  177  3 : 222 / 1  30 <===
3-Quad loss  200  3 : 226 / 1  30 <===
3-Quad loss  226  3 : 230 / 1  29 <===
3-Quad loss  255  3 : 234 / 1  28 <===
2-Street loss  279  3 : 237 / 1  28 <===
2-Street loss  305  3 : 240 / 2  27 <=== 36 total numbers bet

Split: 4 ( 6 ) 4 ( 5 ) 5 ( 4 ) 7 ( 3 ) 10 ( 2 ) 19 ( 1 )
Street: 5 ( 6 ) 6 ( 5 ) 8 ( 4 ) 10 ( 3 ) 14 ( 2 ) 28 ( 1 )
Quad: 7 ( 6 ) 8 ( 5 ) 10 ( 4 ) 13 ( 3 ) 20 ( 2 ) 39 ( 1 )
DS: 11 ( 6 ) 13 ( 5 ) 16 ( 4 ) 21 ( 3 ) 31 ( 2 ) 62 ( 1 )
DS+Split: 13 / 4 ( 6 ) 16 / 4 ( 5 ) 20 / 5 ( 4 ) 26 / 7 ( 3 ) 39 / 10 ( 2 ) 77 / 20 ( 1 )
DS+Street: 13 / 6 ( 6 ) 16 / 7 ( 5 ) 20 / 8 ( 4 ) 26 / 11 ( 3 ) 39 / 16 ( 2 ) 77 / 31 ( 1 )
DS+Quad: 13 / 8 ( 6 ) 16 / 9 ( 5 ) 20 / 12 ( 4 ) 26 / 15 ( 3 ) 39 / 22 ( 2 ) 77 / 44 ( 1 )
DZ: 26 ( 6 ) 32 ( 5 ) 39 ( 4 ) 52 ( 3 ) 77 ( 2 ) 154 ( 1 )
EC: 52 ( 6 ) 63 ( 5 ) 78 ( 4 ) 103 ( 3 ) 154 ( 2 ) 307 ( 1 )
DZ+DZ 52 / 52 ( 6 ) 63 / 63 ( 5 ) 78 / 78 ( 4 ) 103 / 103 ( 3 ) 154 / 154 ( 2 ) 307 / 307 ( 1 )

4-DS loss  326  3 : 246 / 2  26 <=== surfing gives me more control
4-DS WIN  216  4 : 252 / 1  29
3-Quad loss  244  4 : 256 / 1  28 <=== follow MBA ratio 1
2-Street loss  267  4 : 259 / 1  28 <===
2-Street WIN -1 <===

I finally feel more "safe" and in control because I am able to alter the force of the MBA like a nozzle on a hose; letting it flow when we are betting for direct profit & restricting its downward flow when we are trying to recover.

10-DZ+DZ loss  37  1 : 156 / 2  34

Split: 1 ( 6 ) 1 ( 5 ) 1 ( 4 ) 1 ( 3 ) 2 ( 2 ) 3 ( 1 )
Street: 1 ( 6 ) 1 ( 5 ) 1 ( 4 ) 2 ( 3 ) 2 ( 2 ) 4 ( 1 )
Quad: 1 ( 6 ) 2 ( 5 ) 2 ( 4 ) 2 ( 3 ) 3 ( 2 ) 5 ( 1 )
DS: 2 ( 6 ) 2 ( 5 ) 3 ( 4 ) 3 ( 3 ) 4 ( 2 ) 8 ( 1 )
DS+Split: 2 / 1 ( 6 ) 3 / 1 ( 5 ) 3 / 1 ( 4 ) 4 / 1 ( 3 ) 5 / 2 ( 2 ) 10 / 3 ( 1 )
DS+Street: 2 / 1 ( 6 ) 3 / 1 ( 5 ) 3 / 2 ( 4 ) 4 / 2 ( 3 ) 5 / 2 ( 2 ) 10 / 4 ( 1 )
DS+Quad: 2 / 2 ( 6 ) 3 / 2 ( 5 ) 3 / 2 ( 4 ) 4 / 2 ( 3 ) 5 / 3 ( 2 ) 10 / 6 ( 1 )
DZ: 4 ( 6 ) 5 ( 5 ) 6 ( 4 ) 7 ( 3 ) 10 ( 2 ) 20 ( 1 )
EC: 8 ( 6 ) 9 ( 5 ) 11 ( 4 ) 14 ( 3 ) 20 ( 2 ) 39 ( 1 )
DZ+DZ 8 / 8 ( 6 ) 9 / 9 ( 5 ) 11 / 11 ( 4 ) 14 / 14 ( 3 ) 20 / 20 ( 2 ) 39 / 39 ( 1 )

10-DZ+DZ WIN  23  2 : 180 / 2  34 <=== surfed for the win!
10-DZ+DZ loss  49  2 : 204 / 2  33
9-EC loss  75  2 : 222 / 2  33 <=== DZ+DZ too expensive to surf

Split: 1 ( 6 ) 1 ( 5 ) 2 ( 4 ) 2 ( 3 ) 3 ( 2 ) 5 ( 1 )
Street: 2 ( 6 ) 2 ( 5 ) 2 ( 4 ) 3 ( 3 ) 4 ( 2 ) 7 ( 1 )
Quad: 2 ( 6 ) 3 ( 5 ) 3 ( 4 ) 4 ( 3 ) 5 ( 2 ) 10 ( 1 )
DS: 3 ( 6 ) 4 ( 5 ) 4 ( 4 ) 6 ( 3 ) 8 ( 2 ) 16 ( 1 )
DS+Split: 4 / 1 ( 6 ) 5 / 2 ( 5 ) 5 / 2 ( 4 ) 7 / 2 ( 3 ) 10 / 3 ( 2 ) 20 / 5 ( 1 )
DS+Street: 4 / 2 ( 6 ) 5 / 2 ( 5 ) 5 / 2 ( 4 ) 7 / 3 ( 3 ) 10 / 4 ( 2 ) 20 / 8 ( 1 )
DS+Quad: 4 / 2 ( 6 ) 5 / 3 ( 5 ) 5 / 3 ( 4 ) 7 / 4 ( 3 ) 10 / 6 ( 2 ) 20 / 11 ( 1 )
DZ: 7 ( 6 ) 9 ( 5 ) 10 ( 4 ) 14 ( 3 ) 20 ( 2 ) 39 ( 1 )
EC: 14 ( 6 ) 17 ( 5 ) 20 ( 4 ) 27 ( 3 ) 39 ( 2 ) 77 ( 1 )
DZ+DZ 14 / 14 ( 6 ) 17 / 17 ( 5 ) 20 / 20 ( 4 ) 27 / 27 ( 3 ) 39 / 39 ( 2 ) 77 / 77 ( 1 )

9-EC WIN  48  3 : 240 / 2  33 <=== surfed for the win!
9-EC loss  74  3 : 258 / 2  33

Split: 1 ( 6 ) 1 ( 5 ) 2 ( 4 ) 2 ( 3 ) 3 ( 2 ) 5 ( 1 )
Street: 2 ( 6 ) 2 ( 5 ) 2 ( 4 ) 3 ( 3 ) 4 ( 2 ) 7 ( 1 )
Quad: 2 ( 6 ) 2 ( 5 ) 3 ( 4 ) 4 ( 3 ) 5 ( 2 ) 10 ( 1 )
DS: 3 ( 6 ) 4 ( 5 ) 4 ( 4 ) 6 ( 3 ) 8 ( 2 ) 16 ( 1 )
DS+Split: 4 / 1 ( 6 ) 4 / 1 ( 5 ) 5 / 2 ( 4 ) 7 / 2 ( 3 ) 10 / 3 ( 2 ) 19 / 5 ( 1 )
DS+Street: 4 / 2 ( 6 ) 4 / 2 ( 5 ) 5 / 2 ( 4 ) 7 / 3 ( 3 ) 10 / 4 ( 2 ) 19 / 8 ( 1 )
DS+Quad: 4 / 2 ( 6 ) 4 / 3 ( 5 ) 5 / 3 ( 4 ) 7 / 4 ( 3 ) 10 / 6 ( 2 ) 19 / 11 ( 1 )
DZ: 7 ( 6 ) 8 ( 5 ) 10 ( 4 ) 13 ( 3 ) 20 ( 2 ) 38 ( 1 )
EC: 14 ( 6 ) 16 ( 5 ) 20 ( 4 ) 26 ( 3 ) 39 ( 2 ) 76 ( 1 )
DZ+DZ 14 / 14 ( 6 ) 16 / 16 ( 5 ) 20 / 20 ( 4 ) 26 / 26 ( 3 ) 39 / 39 ( 2 ) 76 / 76 ( 1 )

9-EC WIN  48  4 : 276 / 1  33 <=== surfed for the win!
8-DZ WIN -1 <=== follow the MBA ratio 1 for the win!

(https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/0e/3c/d7/0e3cd728d766ce8d9fc5f6445294f924.jpg)

There is hidden power in series of bets, that can be tapped to increase our hit rate!

The HNB automatically segments and stores sections of bankroll based on theoretical necessity in the future but those sections are never actually spent because new sections are re-created every spin, which means those sections of bankroll can be tapped for use in the present!

Obviously we don't want to tap them directly by raising our bets because that defeats the purpose but we can tap them indirectly by reducing our bets and increasing our bet selection!

10-DZ+DZ loss  29  1 : 108 / 1  34
9-EC loss  59  1 : 126 / 2  33
9-EC WIN  28  2 : 144 / 1  34
9-EC loss  58  2 : 162 / 1  33
8-DZ loss  88  2 : 173 / 1  32
6-DS+Street loss  120  2 : 182 / 2  32
8-DZ loss  151  2 : 193 / 2  31

Split: 2 ( 6 ) 2 ( 5 ) 3 ( 4 ) 4 ( 3 ) 5 ( 2 ) 9 ( 1 )
Street: 3 ( 6 ) 3 ( 5 ) 4 ( 4 ) 5 ( 3 ) 7 ( 2 ) 14 ( 1 )
Quad: 4 ( 6 ) 4 ( 5 ) 5 ( 4 ) 7 ( 3 ) 10 ( 2 ) 20 ( 1 )
DS: 6 ( 6 ) 7 ( 5 ) 8 ( 4 ) 11 ( 3 ) 16 ( 2 ) 31 ( 1 )
DS+Split: 7 / 2 ( 6 ) 8 / 2 ( 5 ) 10 / 3 ( 4 ) 13 / 4 ( 3 ) 20 / 5 ( 2 ) 39 / 10 ( 1 )
DS+Street: 7 / 3 ( 6 ) 8 / 4 ( 5 ) 10 / 4 ( 4 ) 13 / 6 ( 3 ) 20 / 8 ( 2 ) 39 / 16 ( 1 )
DS+Quad: 7 / 4 ( 6 ) 8 / 5 ( 5 ) 10 / 6 ( 4 ) 13 / 8 ( 3 ) 20 / 11 ( 2 ) 39 / 22 ( 1 )
DZ: 14 ( 6 ) 16 ( 5 ) 20 ( 4 ) 26 ( 3 ) 39 ( 2 ) 77 ( 1 )
EC: 27 ( 6 ) 32 ( 5 ) 39 ( 4 ) 52 ( 3 ) 77 ( 2 ) 153 ( 1 )
DZ+DZ 27 / 27 ( 6 ) 32 / 32 ( 5 ) 39 / 39 ( 4 ) 52 / 52 ( 3 ) 77 / 77 ( 2 ) 153 / 153 ( 1 )

8-DZ loss  177  2 : 204 / 2  30

Split: 2 ( 6 ) 3 ( 5 ) 3 ( 4 ) 4 ( 3 ) 6 ( 2 ) 11 ( 1 )
Street: 3 ( 6 ) 4 ( 5 ) 5 ( 4 ) 6 ( 3 ) 9 ( 2 ) 17 ( 1 )
Quad: 4 ( 6 ) 5 ( 5 ) 6 ( 4 ) 8 ( 3 ) 12 ( 2 ) 23 ( 1 )
DS: 7 ( 6 ) 8 ( 5 ) 10 ( 4 ) 13 ( 3 ) 18 ( 2 ) 36 ( 1 )
DS+Split: 8 / 2 ( 6 ) 10 / 3 ( 5 ) 12 / 3 ( 4 ) 16 / 4 ( 3 ) 23 / 6 ( 2 ) 45 / 12 ( 1 )
DS+Street: 8 / 4 ( 6 ) 10 / 4 ( 5 ) 12 / 5 ( 4 ) 16 / 7 ( 3 ) 23 / 9 ( 2 ) 45 / 18 ( 1 )
DS+Quad: 8 / 5 ( 6 ) 10 / 6 ( 5 ) 12 / 7 ( 4 ) 16 / 9 ( 3 ) 23 / 13 ( 2 ) 45 / 26 ( 1 )
DZ: 16 ( 6 ) 19 ( 5 ) 23 ( 4 ) 31 ( 3 ) 45 ( 2 ) 90 ( 1 )
EC: 31 ( 6 ) 37 ( 5 ) 46 ( 4 ) 61 ( 3 ) 90 ( 2 ) 179 ( 1 )
DZ+DZ 31 / 31 ( 6 ) 37 / 37 ( 5 ) 46 / 46 ( 4 ) 61 / 61 ( 3 ) 90 / 90 ( 2 ) 179 / 179 ( 1 )

7-DS+Quad loss  202  2 : 214 / 2  29 <== fight the MBA

Split: 3 ( 6 ) 3 ( 5 ) 4 ( 4 ) 5 ( 3 ) 7 ( 2 ) 12 ( 1 )
Street: 4 ( 6 ) 4 ( 5 ) 5 ( 4 ) 7 ( 3 ) 10 ( 2 ) 19 ( 1 )
Quad: 5 ( 6 ) 6 ( 5 ) 7 ( 4 ) 9 ( 3 ) 13 ( 2 ) 26 ( 1 )
DS: 7 ( 6 ) 9 ( 5 ) 11 ( 4 ) 14 ( 3 ) 21 ( 2 ) 41 ( 1 )
DS+Split: 9 / 3 ( 6 ) 11 / 3 ( 5 ) 13 / 4 ( 4 ) 18 / 5 ( 3 ) 26 / 7 ( 2 ) 51 / 13 ( 1 )
DS+Street: 9 / 4 ( 6 ) 11 / 5 ( 5 ) 13 / 6 ( 4 ) 18 / 7 ( 3 ) 26 / 11 ( 2 ) 51 / 21 ( 1 )
DS+Quad: 9 / 5 ( 6 ) 11 / 6 ( 5 ) 13 / 8 ( 4 ) 18 / 10 ( 3 ) 26 / 15 ( 2 ) 51 / 30 ( 1 )
DZ: 18 ( 6 ) 21 ( 5 ) 26 ( 4 ) 35 ( 3 ) 52 ( 2 ) 102 ( 1 )
EC: 35 ( 6 ) 42 ( 5 ) 52 ( 4 ) 69 ( 3 ) 103 ( 2 ) 204 ( 1 )
DZ+DZ 35 / 35 ( 6 ) 42 / 42 ( 5 ) 52 / 52 ( 4 ) 69 / 69 ( 3 ) 103 / 103 ( 2 ) 204 / 204 ( 1 )

7-DS+Quad loss  230  2 : 224 / 2  29 <=== every step of the way

Split: 3 ( 6 ) 3 ( 5 ) 4 ( 4 ) 5 ( 3 ) 7 ( 2 ) 14 ( 1 )
Street: 4 ( 6 ) 5 ( 5 ) 6 ( 4 ) 8 ( 3 ) 11 ( 2 ) 22 ( 1 )
Quad: 5 ( 6 ) 6 ( 5 ) 8 ( 4 ) 10 ( 3 ) 15 ( 2 ) 29 ( 1 )
DS: 8 ( 6 ) 10 ( 5 ) 12 ( 4 ) 16 ( 3 ) 24 ( 2 ) 47 ( 1 )
DS+Split: 10 / 3 ( 6 ) 12 / 3 ( 5 ) 15 / 4 ( 4 ) 20 / 5 ( 3 ) 30 / 8 ( 2 ) 58 / 15 ( 1 )
DS+Street: 10 / 4 ( 6 ) 12 / 5 ( 5 ) 15 / 6 ( 4 ) 20 / 8 ( 3 ) 30 / 12 ( 2 ) 58 / 24 ( 1 )
DS+Quad: 10 / 6 ( 6 ) 12 / 7 ( 5 ) 15 / 9 ( 4 ) 20 / 12 ( 3 ) 30 / 17 ( 2 ) 58 / 34 ( 1 )
DZ: 20 ( 6 ) 24 ( 5 ) 30 ( 4 ) 39 ( 3 ) 59 ( 2 ) 116 ( 1 )
EC: 40 ( 6 ) 48 ( 5 ) 59 ( 4 ) 78 ( 3 ) 117 ( 2 ) 232 ( 1 )
DZ+DZ 40 / 40 ( 6 ) 48 / 48 ( 5 ) 59 / 59 ( 4 ) 78 / 78 ( 3 ) 117 / 117 ( 2 ) 232 / 232 ( 1 )

6-DS+Street WIN  162  3 : 233 / 1  30 <=== surf win!
3-Quad loss  183  3 : 237 / 1  30 <=== follow the MBA ratio 1
3-Quad loss  207  3 : 241 / 2  29 <=== last ditch effort for profit

Split: 3 ( 6 ) 3 ( 5 ) 4 ( 4 ) 5 ( 3 ) 7 ( 2 ) 13 ( 1 )
Street: 4 ( 6 ) 4 ( 5 ) 5 ( 4 ) 7 ( 3 ) 10 ( 2 ) 19 ( 1 )
Quad: 5 ( 6 ) 6 ( 5 ) 7 ( 4 ) 9 ( 3 ) 14 ( 2 ) 27 ( 1 )
DS: 8 ( 6 ) 9 ( 5 ) 11 ( 4 ) 15 ( 3 ) 21 ( 2 ) 42 ( 1 )
DS+Split: 9 / 3 ( 6 ) 11 / 3 ( 5 ) 14 / 4 ( 4 ) 18 / 5 ( 3 ) 27 / 7 ( 2 ) 53 / 14 ( 1 )
DS+Street: 9 / 4 ( 6 ) 11 / 5 ( 5 ) 14 / 6 ( 4 ) 18 / 8 ( 3 ) 27 / 11 ( 2 ) 53 / 21 ( 1 )
DS+Quad: 9 / 6 ( 6 ) 11 / 7 ( 5 ) 14 / 8 ( 4 ) 18 / 11 ( 3 ) 27 / 15 ( 2 ) 53 / 30 ( 1 )
DZ: 18 ( 6 ) 22 ( 5 ) 27 ( 4 ) 36 ( 3 ) 53 ( 2 ) 105 ( 1 )
EC: 36 ( 6 ) 43 ( 5 ) 53 ( 4 ) 71 ( 3 ) 105 ( 2 ) 209 ( 1 )
DZ+DZ 36 / 36 ( 6 ) 43 / 43 ( 5 ) 53 / 53 ( 4 ) 71 / 71 ( 3 ) 105 / 105 ( 2 ) 209 / 209 ( 1 )

5-DS+Split loss  230  3 : 249 / 2  29 <=== surf 2 powa
5-DS+Split loss  255  3 : 257 / 2  28 <=== follow the
5-DS+Split WIN  151  4 : 265 / 1  31 <=== surfing ratio
4-DS WIN -1 <=== follow the MBA ratio 1 for the win!

(https://media.giphy.com/media/zkrgXgFV9SA1O/giphy.gif)

10-DZ+DZ loss  38  1 : 132 / 2  34

Split: 1 ( 6 ) 1 ( 5 ) 1 ( 4 ) 1 ( 3 ) 2 ( 2 ) 3 ( 1 )
Street: 1 ( 6 ) 1 ( 5 ) 1 ( 4 ) 2 ( 3 ) 2 ( 2 ) 4 ( 1 )
Quad: 1 ( 6 ) 2 ( 5 ) 2 ( 4 ) 2 ( 3 ) 3 ( 2 ) 5 ( 1 )
DS: 2 ( 6 ) 2 ( 5 ) 3 ( 4 ) 3 ( 3 ) 5 ( 2 ) 8 ( 1 )
DS+Split: 2 / 1 ( 6 ) 3 / 1 ( 5 ) 3 / 1 ( 4 ) 4 / 1 ( 3 ) 6 / 2 ( 2 ) 10 / 3 ( 1 )
DS+Street: 2 / 1 ( 6 ) 3 / 1 ( 5 ) 3 / 2 ( 4 ) 4 / 2 ( 3 ) 6 / 3 ( 2 ) 10 / 4 ( 1 )
DS+Quad: 2 / 2 ( 6 ) 3 / 2 ( 5 ) 3 / 2 ( 4 ) 4 / 2 ( 3 ) 6 / 3 ( 2 ) 10 / 6 ( 1 )
DZ: 4 ( 6 ) 5 ( 5 ) 6 ( 4 ) 7 ( 3 ) 11 ( 2 ) 20 ( 1 )
EC: 8 ( 6 ) 9 ( 5 ) 11 ( 4 ) 14 ( 3 ) 21 ( 2 ) 40 ( 1 )
DZ+DZ 8 / 8 ( 6 ) 9 / 9 ( 5 ) 11 / 11 ( 4 ) 14 / 14 ( 3 ) 21 / 21 ( 2 ) 40 / 40 ( 1 )

10-DZ+DZ WIN  24  2 : 156 / 1  34 <=== surf that win!
9-EC loss  49  2 : 174 / 1  33
8-DZ loss  75  2 : 185 / 2  33

Split: 1 ( 6 ) 1 ( 5 ) 2 ( 4 ) 2 ( 3 ) 3 ( 2 ) 5 ( 1 )
Street: 2 ( 6 ) 2 ( 5 ) 2 ( 4 ) 3 ( 3 ) 4 ( 2 ) 7 ( 1 )
Quad: 2 ( 6 ) 3 ( 5 ) 3 ( 4 ) 4 ( 3 ) 5 ( 2 ) 10 ( 1 )
DS: 3 ( 6 ) 4 ( 5 ) 4 ( 4 ) 6 ( 3 ) 8 ( 2 ) 16 ( 1 )
DS+Split: 4 / 1 ( 6 ) 5 / 2 ( 5 ) 5 / 2 ( 4 ) 7 / 2 ( 3 ) 10 / 3 ( 2 ) 20 / 5 ( 1 )
DS+Street: 4 / 2 ( 6 ) 5 / 2 ( 5 ) 5 / 2 ( 4 ) 7 / 3 ( 3 ) 10 / 4 ( 2 ) 20 / 8 ( 1 )
DS+Quad: 4 / 2 ( 6 ) 5 / 3 ( 5 ) 5 / 3 ( 4 ) 7 / 4 ( 3 ) 10 / 6 ( 2 ) 20 / 11 ( 1 )
DZ: 7 ( 6 ) 9 ( 5 ) 10 ( 4 ) 14 ( 3 ) 20 ( 2 ) 39 ( 1 )
EC: 14 ( 6 ) 17 ( 5 ) 20 ( 4 ) 27 ( 3 ) 39 ( 2 ) 77 ( 1 )
DZ+DZ 14 / 14 ( 6 ) 17 / 17 ( 5 ) 20 / 20 ( 4 ) 27 / 27 ( 3 ) 39 / 39 ( 2 ) 77 / 77 ( 1 )

9-EC loss  102  2 : 203 / 2  32
8-DZ loss  129  2 : 214 / 2  31 <=== EC to expensive to surf

Split: 2 ( 6 ) 2 ( 5 ) 2 ( 4 ) 3 ( 3 ) 4 ( 2 ) 8 ( 1 )
Street: 3 ( 6 ) 3 ( 5 ) 4 ( 4 ) 5 ( 3 ) 6 ( 2 ) 12 ( 1 )
Quad: 3 ( 6 ) 4 ( 5 ) 5 ( 4 ) 6 ( 3 ) 9 ( 2 ) 17 ( 1 )
DS: 5 ( 6 ) 6 ( 5 ) 7 ( 4 ) 9 ( 3 ) 14 ( 2 ) 27 ( 1 )
DS+Split: 6 / 2 ( 6 ) 7 / 2 ( 5 ) 9 / 3 ( 4 ) 12 / 3 ( 3 ) 17 / 5 ( 2 ) 33 / 9 ( 1 )
DS+Street: 6 / 3 ( 6 ) 7 / 3 ( 5 ) 9 / 4 ( 4 ) 12 / 5 ( 3 ) 17 / 7 ( 2 ) 33 / 14 ( 1 )
DS+Quad: 6 / 4 ( 6 ) 7 / 4 ( 5 ) 9 / 5 ( 4 ) 12 / 7 ( 3 ) 17 / 10 ( 2 ) 33 / 19 ( 1 )
DZ: 12 ( 6 ) 14 ( 5 ) 17 ( 4 ) 23 ( 3 ) 33 ( 2 ) 66 ( 1 )
EC: 23 ( 6 ) 27 ( 5 ) 34 ( 4 ) 45 ( 3 ) 66 ( 2 ) 131 ( 1 )
DZ+DZ 23 / 23 ( 6 ) 27 / 27 ( 5 ) 34 / 34 ( 4 ) 45 / 45 ( 3 ) 66 / 66 ( 2 ) 131 / 131 ( 1 )

8-DZ loss  152  2 : 225 / 2  31

Split: 2 ( 6 ) 2 ( 5 ) 3 ( 4 ) 4 ( 3 ) 5 ( 2 ) 10 ( 1 )
Street: 3 ( 6 ) 3 ( 5 ) 4 ( 4 ) 5 ( 3 ) 8 ( 2 ) 14 ( 1 )
Quad: 4 ( 6 ) 4 ( 5 ) 5 ( 4 ) 7 ( 3 ) 10 ( 2 ) 20 ( 1 )
DS: 6 ( 6 ) 7 ( 5 ) 8 ( 4 ) 11 ( 3 ) 16 ( 2 ) 31 ( 1 )
DS+Split: 7 / 2 ( 6 ) 8 / 2 ( 5 ) 10 / 3 ( 4 ) 13 / 4 ( 3 ) 20 / 5 ( 2 ) 39 / 10 ( 1 )
DS+Street: 7 / 3 ( 6 ) 8 / 4 ( 5 ) 10 / 4 ( 4 ) 13 / 6 ( 3 ) 20 / 8 ( 2 ) 39 / 16 ( 1 )
DS+Quad: 7 / 4 ( 6 ) 8 / 5 ( 5 ) 10 / 6 ( 4 ) 13 / 8 ( 3 ) 20 / 12 ( 2 ) 39 / 22 ( 1 )
DZ: 14 ( 6 ) 16 ( 5 ) 20 ( 4 ) 26 ( 3 ) 39 ( 2 ) 77 ( 1 )
EC: 27 ( 6 ) 32 ( 5 ) 40 ( 4 ) 52 ( 3 ) 78 ( 2 ) 154 ( 1 )
DZ+DZ 27 / 27 ( 6 ) 32 / 32 ( 5 ) 40 / 40 ( 4 ) 52 / 52 ( 3 ) 78 / 78 ( 2 ) 154 / 154 ( 1 )

8-DZ loss  178  2 : 236 / 2  30

Split: 2 ( 6 ) 3 ( 5 ) 3 ( 4 ) 4 ( 3 ) 6 ( 2 ) 11 ( 1 )
Street: 3 ( 6 ) 4 ( 5 ) 5 ( 4 ) 6 ( 3 ) 9 ( 2 ) 17 ( 1 )
Quad: 4 ( 6 ) 5 ( 5 ) 6 ( 4 ) 8 ( 3 ) 12 ( 2 ) 23 ( 1 )
DS: 7 ( 6 ) 8 ( 5 ) 10 ( 4 ) 13 ( 3 ) 19 ( 2 ) 36 ( 1 )
DS+Split: 8 / 2 ( 6 ) 10 / 3 ( 5 ) 12 / 3 ( 4 ) 16 / 4 ( 3 ) 23 / 6 ( 2 ) 45 / 12 ( 1 )
DS+Street: 8 / 4 ( 6 ) 10 / 4 ( 5 ) 12 / 5 ( 4 ) 16 / 7 ( 3 ) 23 / 10 ( 2 ) 45 / 18 ( 1 )
DS+Quad: 8 / 5 ( 6 ) 10 / 6 ( 5 ) 12 / 7 ( 4 ) 16 / 9 ( 3 ) 23 / 13 ( 2 ) 45 / 26 ( 1 )
DZ: 16 ( 6 ) 19 ( 5 ) 23 ( 4 ) 31 ( 3 ) 46 ( 2 ) 90 ( 1 )
EC: 31 ( 6 ) 37 ( 5 ) 46 ( 4 ) 61 ( 3 ) 91 ( 2 ) 180 ( 1 )
DZ+DZ 31 / 31 ( 6 ) 37 / 37 ( 5 ) 46 / 46 ( 4 ) 61 / 61 ( 3 ) 91 / 91 ( 2 ) 180 / 180 ( 1 )

7-DS+Quad loss  203  2 : 246 / 3  29

Split: 3 ( 6 ) 3 ( 5 ) 4 ( 4 ) 5 ( 3 ) 7 ( 2 ) 13 ( 1 )
Street: 4 ( 6 ) 4 ( 5 ) 5 ( 4 ) 7 ( 3 ) 10 ( 2 ) 19 ( 1 )
Quad: 5 ( 6 ) 6 ( 5 ) 7 ( 4 ) 9 ( 3 ) 13 ( 2 ) 26 ( 1 )
DS: 7 ( 6 ) 9 ( 5 ) 11 ( 4 ) 14 ( 3 ) 21 ( 2 ) 41 ( 1 )
DS+Split: 9 / 3 ( 6 ) 11 / 3 ( 5 ) 13 / 4 ( 4 ) 18 / 5 ( 3 ) 26 / 7 ( 2 ) 52 / 13 ( 1 )
DS+Street: 9 / 4 ( 6 ) 11 / 5 ( 5 ) 13 / 6 ( 4 ) 18 / 7 ( 3 ) 26 / 11 ( 2 ) 52 / 21 ( 1 )
DS+Quad: 9 / 5 ( 6 ) 11 / 6 ( 5 ) 13 / 8 ( 4 ) 18 / 10 ( 3 ) 26 / 15 ( 2 ) 52 / 30 ( 1 )
DZ: 18 ( 6 ) 21 ( 5 ) 26 ( 4 ) 35 ( 3 ) 52 ( 2 ) 103 ( 1 )
EC: 35 ( 6 ) 42 ( 5 ) 52 ( 4 ) 69 ( 3 ) 103 ( 2 ) 205 ( 1 )
DZ+DZ 35 / 35 ( 6 ) 42 / 42 ( 5 ) 52 / 52 ( 4 ) 69 / 69 ( 3 ) 103 / 103 ( 2 ) 205 / 205 ( 1 )

8-DZ WIN  151  3 : 257 / 2  31 <=== ratio change increased surf power

Split: 2 ( 6 ) 2 ( 5 ) 3 ( 4 ) 4 ( 3 ) 5 ( 2 ) 9 ( 1 )
Street: 3 ( 6 ) 3 ( 5 ) 4 ( 4 ) 5 ( 3 ) 7 ( 2 ) 14 ( 1 )
Quad: 4 ( 6 ) 4 ( 5 ) 5 ( 4 ) 7 ( 3 ) 10 ( 2 ) 20 ( 1 )
DS: 6 ( 6 ) 7 ( 5 ) 8 ( 4 ) 11 ( 3 ) 16 ( 2 ) 31 ( 1 )
DS+Split: 7 / 2 ( 6 ) 8 / 2 ( 5 ) 10 / 3 ( 4 ) 13 / 4 ( 3 ) 20 / 5 ( 2 ) 39 / 10 ( 1 )
DS+Street: 7 / 3 ( 6 ) 8 / 4 ( 5 ) 10 / 4 ( 4 ) 13 / 6 ( 3 ) 20 / 8 ( 2 ) 39 / 16 ( 1 )
DS+Quad: 7 / 4 ( 6 ) 8 / 5 ( 5 ) 10 / 6 ( 4 ) 13 / 8 ( 3 ) 20 / 11 ( 2 ) 39 / 22 ( 1 )
DZ: 14 ( 6 ) 16 ( 5 ) 20 ( 4 ) 26 ( 3 ) 39 ( 2 ) 77 ( 1 )
EC: 27 ( 6 ) 32 ( 5 ) 39 ( 4 ) 52 ( 3 ) 77 ( 2 ) 153 ( 1 )
DZ+DZ 27 / 27 ( 6 ) 32 / 32 ( 5 ) 39 / 39 ( 4 ) 52 / 52 ( 3 ) 77 / 77 ( 2 ) 153 / 153 ( 1 )

8-DZ loss  177  3 : 268 / 2  30
7-DS+Quad loss  202  3 : 278 / 2  29 <=== DZ too expensive to surf
7-DS+Quad loss  230  3 : 288 / 2  29 <=== continue the same ratio

Split: 3 ( 6 ) 3 ( 5 ) 4 ( 4 ) 5 ( 3 ) 7 ( 2 ) 14 ( 1 )
Street: 4 ( 6 ) 5 ( 5 ) 6 ( 4 ) 8 ( 3 ) 11 ( 2 ) 22 ( 1 )
Quad: 5 ( 6 ) 6 ( 5 ) 8 ( 4 ) 10 ( 3 ) 15 ( 2 ) 29 ( 1 )
DS: 8 ( 6 ) 10 ( 5 ) 12 ( 4 ) 16 ( 3 ) 24 ( 2 ) 47 ( 1 )
DS+Split: 10 / 3 ( 6 ) 12 / 3 ( 5 ) 15 / 4 ( 4 ) 20 / 5 ( 3 ) 30 / 8 ( 2 ) 58 / 15 ( 1 )
DS+Street: 10 / 4 ( 6 ) 12 / 5 ( 5 ) 15 / 6 ( 4 ) 20 / 8 ( 3 ) 30 / 12 ( 2 ) 58 / 24 ( 1 )
DS+Quad: 10 / 6 ( 6 ) 12 / 7 ( 5 ) 15 / 9 ( 4 ) 20 / 12 ( 3 ) 30 / 17 ( 2 ) 58 / 34 ( 1 )
DZ: 20 ( 6 ) 24 ( 5 ) 30 ( 4 ) 39 ( 3 ) 59 ( 2 ) 116 ( 1 )
EC: 40 ( 6 ) 48 ( 5 ) 59 ( 4 ) 78 ( 3 ) 117 ( 2 ) 232 ( 1 )
DZ+DZ 40 / 40 ( 6 ) 48 / 48 ( 5 ) 59 / 59 ( 4 ) 78 / 78 ( 3 ) 117 / 117 ( 2 ) 232 / 232 ( 1 )

6-DS+Street WIN  138  4 : 297 / 1  31 <=== surf for the win!
4-DS WIN -1 <=== follow the MBA ratio 1 for the win!!
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: Reyth on March 07, 2017, 11:01:25 PM
At this moment I will take some honor for myself but I already undertstood some conclusions before Reyth had them (probably cause I worked more myself on your clues with real spins).

Yes it was your hard research that paved the way for me to confirm that you discovered the true Talos Core Progression.  This progression might be a teaching key to the overall system where he performs a (small hit)/(knockout blow) or (small hit)/(large hit)/(knockout blow) etc. where each of the 7 exit points is one of 7 patterns that will always apply to the game at large.

The (small hits) could be the key to keeping his balance low because it absorbs the loss streaks?

Maybe there is a key in looking to always duplicate 24 numbers either directly (DZ+DZ) or in a series (DZ(1), DZ(2); EC(1), DS(2) etc.)?

Quote
I know it's the key and playing with numbers the way Reyth is playing will not give the solution shortly.

Yes, I do not have his revolutionary method of reducing his bet amounts but I have discovered my own which is inspired by his philosophy.  If the only ideas I have on how to progress are my own, then I have no choice but to pursue them or pursue nothing.

Quote
So sometimes I like to do brainstorming around that concept maybe I will find and idea different that you and revolutionary too who knows ?

I believe in his philosophy of roulette but I must view it through my own perceptual lenses as:

1) Attack Progression -- only a rare pattern will beat us, otherwise we keep "taking the casino's Franc pieces"; i.e. similar to the Wrangler system.

2) Recovery System -- a hybrid & modified combination of the Pivot & 6-Point Divisor to maximize the effectiveness of the bankroll.  This is meant to be a "fly or die" recovery system where profit is restored or the bankroll is exhausted.
Title: Re: Talos_Dumpito
Post by: jerome26b on March 07, 2017, 11:44:14 PM
that's good reyth you were continiug your own way when i was pursuing talos clues in the stronger wfixed ways. tomorrow i will try to take time to underlay the delta between us. i'm convinced now you can have hundreds simulations and not find the trick. i'm even sure of that... the solution is not completely there but underway from the wheel. like talos saying your work is good but there's no creativity. think about differential betting think about differential progression (i mean not linear) that's the way i think...

jerome
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: DrTalos on March 08, 2017, 12:08:31 AM
Jerome, I never said I am smart. Many times I said I cannot understand what other people here says, because my mathematical skill is quite lame. So, quite the opposite. Many many years writing numbers to find empirically what Reyth can figure out in two minutes, because of his knowledge.
If I keep repeating that point is because I want you to push yourself in an unknown territory, because in the "standard" way it is very hard (at least has been for me) to beat the wheel.
The concept of divisor, for example, is on point and accurate. I use a divisor. But is not this one the winning key, it is just an helping tool.

I don't know how tell this in a different way, to make me clear: I don't care about other people appreciation, I don't want statues or money, I am just a nickname in a forum, so what's the point?
I keep telling people that the land they dream of, where the HG is kept, do exits, despite many people here and all over the world say otherwise.
Real here takes pride of fighting absurdities, and from his point of view the HG doesn't exist. I keep say out loud that do exist and I don't gain anything if you believe it or not, because you are the only one the get advantage of it if you can reach it.
I climbed an awesome mountain, a mountain everybody says couldn't be climbed. I push you to do the same, and to look at the wonderful view from his top. I keep saying you I am not the only one, I strongly believe that, but if I am wrong about how many people did the impossible, still there is me.

I was called a scammer, a liar, to write from a cave in Italy or use several nicknames in different forum claiming the same (for whatever reason is not to be known), and when you traced my words you found I told the truth (Yes, I keep not telling my system, so this cannot be checked).

Please keep working, and I don't want to know your results, your secrets, your HG. When you will find it, if it is written to happen, please just open a thread saying you find one, and give hope to others still struggling.
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: Reyth on March 08, 2017, 12:41:04 AM
Jerome, I never said I am smart. Many times I said I cannot understand what other people here says, because my mathematical skill is quite lame. So, quite the opposite. Many many years writing numbers to find empirically what Reyth can figure out in two minutes, because of his knowledge.

I don't know where people keep getting the idea I am mathematically gifted or something but I suck at math!  I am the lamest maths guy you will ever know!  I however, DO know how to program and make the computer do simple maths for me and by struggling with these things, the end result would seem to maybe look impressive but its not my genius its more like me as a baby pushing around ABC blocks until they have structure; not actually impressive; most of the time I guess at a formula several times before it works properly and even then I only guessed until it finally made sense.  ;)

Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: Jake007 on March 08, 2017, 04:42:34 AM
.
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: Reyth on March 08, 2017, 10:07:31 AM
(PART I)

10-DZ+DZ loss  29  1 : 108 / 1  34
9-EC loss  59  1 : 126 / 2  33
9-EC loss  90  1 : 144 / 2  32

Split: 1 ( 6 ) 2 ( 5 ) 2 ( 4 ) 2 ( 3 ) 3 ( 2 ) 6 ( 1 )
Street: 2 ( 6 ) 2 ( 5 ) 3 ( 4 ) 3 ( 3 ) 5 ( 2 ) 9 ( 1 )
Quad: 3 ( 6 ) 3 ( 5 ) 3 ( 4 ) 4 ( 3 ) 6 ( 2 ) 12 ( 1 )
DS: 4 ( 6 ) 4 ( 5 ) 5 ( 4 ) 7 ( 3 ) 10 ( 2 ) 19 ( 1 )
DS+Split: 5 / 2 ( 6 ) 5 / 2 ( 5 ) 6 / 2 ( 4 ) 8 / 2 ( 3 ) 12 / 3 ( 2 ) 23 / 6 ( 1 )
DS+Street: 5 / 2 ( 6 ) 5 / 2 ( 5 ) 6 / 3 ( 4 ) 8 / 4 ( 3 ) 12 / 5 ( 2 ) 23 / 10 ( 1 )
DS+Quad: 5 / 3 ( 6 ) 5 / 3 ( 5 ) 6 / 4 ( 4 ) 8 / 5 ( 3 ) 12 / 7 ( 2 ) 23 / 14 ( 1 )
DZ: 9 ( 6 ) 10 ( 5 ) 12 ( 4 ) 16 ( 3 ) 24 ( 2 ) 46 ( 1 )
EC: 17 ( 6 ) 20 ( 5 ) 24 ( 4 ) 32 ( 3 ) 47 ( 2 ) 92 ( 1 )
DZ+DZ 17 / 17 ( 6 ) 20 / 20 ( 5 ) 24 / 24 ( 4 ) 32 / 32 ( 3 ) 47 / 47 ( 2 ) 92 / 92 ( 1 )

9-EC loss  122  1 : 162 / 2  31

Split: 2 ( 6 ) 2 ( 5 ) 2 ( 4 ) 3 ( 3 ) 4 ( 2 ) 8 ( 1 )
Street: 2 ( 6 ) 3 ( 5 ) 3 ( 4 ) 4 ( 3 ) 6 ( 2 ) 12 ( 1 )
Quad: 3 ( 6 ) 4 ( 5 ) 4 ( 4 ) 6 ( 3 ) 8 ( 2 ) 16 ( 1 )
DS: 5 ( 6 ) 6 ( 5 ) 7 ( 4 ) 9 ( 3 ) 13 ( 2 ) 25 ( 1 )
DS+Split: 6 / 2 ( 6 ) 7 / 2 ( 5 ) 8 / 2 ( 4 ) 11 / 3 ( 3 ) 16 / 4 ( 2 ) 31 / 8 ( 1 )
DS+Street: 6 / 3 ( 6 ) 7 / 3 ( 5 ) 8 / 4 ( 4 ) 11 / 5 ( 3 ) 16 / 7 ( 2 ) 31 / 13 ( 1 )
DS+Quad: 6 / 4 ( 6 ) 7 / 4 ( 5 ) 8 / 5 ( 4 ) 11 / 6 ( 3 ) 16 / 9 ( 2 ) 31 / 18 ( 1 )
DZ: 11 ( 6 ) 13 ( 5 ) 16 ( 4 ) 21 ( 3 ) 32 ( 2 ) 62 ( 1 )
EC: 22 ( 6 ) 26 ( 5 ) 32 ( 4 ) 42 ( 3 ) 63 ( 2 ) 124 ( 1 )
DZ+DZ 22 / 22 ( 6 ) 26 / 26 ( 5 ) 32 / 32 ( 4 ) 42 / 42 ( 3 ) 63 / 63 ( 2 ) 124 / 124 ( 1 )

8-DZ WIN  80  2 : 173 / 1  33
7-DS+Quad loss  113  2 : 183 / 2  32
8-DZ loss  142  2 : 194 / 2  31

Split: 2 ( 6 ) 2 ( 5 ) 3 ( 4 ) 3 ( 3 ) 5 ( 2 ) 9 ( 1 )
Street: 3 ( 6 ) 3 ( 5 ) 4 ( 4 ) 5 ( 3 ) 7 ( 2 ) 14 ( 1 )
Quad: 4 ( 6 ) 4 ( 5 ) 5 ( 4 ) 7 ( 3 ) 10 ( 2 ) 18 ( 1 )
DS: 5 ( 6 ) 6 ( 5 ) 8 ( 4 ) 10 ( 3 ) 15 ( 2 ) 29 ( 1 )
DS+Split: 7 / 2 ( 6 ) 8 / 2 ( 5 ) 10 / 3 ( 4 ) 13 / 4 ( 3 ) 19 / 5 ( 2 ) 36 / 9 ( 1 )
DS+Street: 7 / 3 ( 6 ) 8 / 3 ( 5 ) 10 / 4 ( 4 ) 13 / 5 ( 3 ) 19 / 8 ( 2 ) 36 / 15 ( 1 )
DS+Quad: 7 / 4 ( 6 ) 8 / 5 ( 5 ) 10 / 6 ( 4 ) 13 / 7 ( 3 ) 19 / 11 ( 2 ) 36 / 21 ( 1 )
DZ: 13 ( 6 ) 15 ( 5 ) 19 ( 4 ) 25 ( 3 ) 37 ( 2 ) 72 ( 1 )
EC: 25 ( 6 ) 30 ( 5 ) 37 ( 4 ) 49 ( 3 ) 73 ( 2 ) 144 ( 1 )
DZ+DZ 25 / 25 ( 6 ) 30 / 30 ( 5 ) 37 / 37 ( 4 ) 49 / 49 ( 3 ) 73 / 73 ( 2 ) 144 / 144 ( 1 )

8-DZ loss  167  2 : 205 / 2  30

Split: 2 ( 6 ) 3 ( 5 ) 3 ( 4 ) 4 ( 3 ) 5 ( 2 ) 10 ( 1 )
Street: 3 ( 6 ) 4 ( 5 ) 4 ( 4 ) 6 ( 3 ) 8 ( 2 ) 16 ( 1 )
Quad: 4 ( 6 ) 5 ( 5 ) 6 ( 4 ) 8 ( 3 ) 11 ( 2 ) 22 ( 1 )
DS: 6 ( 6 ) 7 ( 5 ) 9 ( 4 ) 12 ( 3 ) 17 ( 2 ) 34 ( 1 )
DS+Split: 8 / 2 ( 6 ) 9 / 3 ( 5 ) 11 / 3 ( 4 ) 15 / 4 ( 3 ) 22 / 6 ( 2 ) 43 / 11 ( 1 )
DS+Street: 8 / 3 ( 6 ) 9 / 4 ( 5 ) 11 / 5 ( 4 ) 15 / 6 ( 3 ) 22 / 9 ( 2 ) 43 / 17 ( 1 )
DS+Quad: 8 / 5 ( 6 ) 9 / 5 ( 5 ) 11 / 7 ( 4 ) 15 / 9 ( 3 ) 22 / 13 ( 2 ) 43 / 25 ( 1 )
DZ: 15 ( 6 ) 18 ( 5 ) 22 ( 4 ) 29 ( 3 ) 43 ( 2 ) 85 ( 1 )
EC: 29 ( 6 ) 35 ( 5 ) 43 ( 4 ) 57 ( 3 ) 85 ( 2 ) 169 ( 1 )
DZ+DZ 29 / 29 ( 6 ) 35 / 35 ( 5 ) 43 / 43 ( 4 ) 57 / 57 ( 3 ) 85 / 85 ( 2 ) 169 / 169 ( 1 )

8-DZ loss  196  2 : 216 / 2  30

Split: 2 ( 6 ) 3 ( 5 ) 3 ( 4 ) 4 ( 3 ) 6 ( 2 ) 12 ( 1 )
Street: 4 ( 6 ) 4 ( 5 ) 5 ( 4 ) 7 ( 3 ) 10 ( 2 ) 18 ( 1 )
Quad: 5 ( 6 ) 6 ( 5 ) 7 ( 4 ) 9 ( 3 ) 13 ( 2 ) 25 ( 1 )
DS: 7 ( 6 ) 9 ( 5 ) 11 ( 4 ) 14 ( 3 ) 20 ( 2 ) 40 ( 1 )
DS+Split: 9 / 3 ( 6 ) 11 / 3 ( 5 ) 13 / 4 ( 4 ) 17 / 5 ( 3 ) 25 / 7 ( 2 ) 50 / 13 ( 1 )
DS+Street: 9 / 4 ( 6 ) 11 / 5 ( 5 ) 13 / 6 ( 4 ) 17 / 7 ( 3 ) 25 / 10 ( 2 ) 50 / 20 ( 1 )
DS+Quad: 9 / 5 ( 6 ) 11 / 6 ( 5 ) 13 / 8 ( 4 ) 17 / 10 ( 3 ) 25 / 15 ( 2 ) 50 / 29 ( 1 )
DZ: 17 ( 6 ) 21 ( 5 ) 26 ( 4 ) 34 ( 3 ) 50 ( 2 ) 99 ( 1 )
EC: 34 ( 6 ) 41 ( 5 ) 51 ( 4 ) 67 ( 3 ) 100 ( 2 ) 198 ( 1 )
DZ+DZ 34 / 34 ( 6 ) 41 / 41 ( 5 ) 51 / 51 ( 4 ) 67 / 67 ( 3 ) 100 / 100 ( 2 ) 198 / 198 ( 1 )

7-DS+Quad loss  223  2 : 226 / 2  29

Split: 3 ( 6 ) 3 ( 5 ) 4 ( 4 ) 5 ( 3 ) 7 ( 2 ) 14 ( 1 )
Street: 4 ( 6 ) 5 ( 5 ) 6 ( 4 ) 7 ( 3 ) 11 ( 2 ) 21 ( 1 )
Quad: 5 ( 6 ) 6 ( 5 ) 8 ( 4 ) 10 ( 3 ) 15 ( 2 ) 29 ( 1 )
DS: 8 ( 6 ) 10 ( 5 ) 12 ( 4 ) 16 ( 3 ) 23 ( 2 ) 45 ( 1 )
DS+Split: 10 / 3 ( 6 ) 12 / 3 ( 5 ) 15 / 4 ( 4 ) 19 / 5 ( 3 ) 29 / 8 ( 2 ) 57 / 15 ( 1 )
DS+Street: 10 / 4 ( 6 ) 12 / 5 ( 5 ) 15 / 6 ( 4 ) 19 / 8 ( 3 ) 29 / 12 ( 2 ) 57 / 23 ( 1 )
DS+Quad: 10 / 6 ( 6 ) 12 / 7 ( 5 ) 15 / 9 ( 4 ) 19 / 11 ( 3 ) 29 / 17 ( 2 ) 57 / 33 ( 1 )
DZ: 20 ( 6 ) 23 ( 5 ) 29 ( 4 ) 38 ( 3 ) 57 ( 2 ) 113 ( 1 )
EC: 39 ( 6 ) 46 ( 5 ) 57 ( 4 ) 76 ( 3 ) 113 ( 2 ) 225 ( 1 )
DZ+DZ 39 / 39 ( 6 ) 46 / 46 ( 5 ) 57 / 57 ( 4 ) 76 / 76 ( 3 ) 113 / 113 ( 2 ) 225 / 225 ( 1 )

6-DS+Street loss  250  2 : 235 / 2  28

Split: 3 ( 6 ) 4 ( 5 ) 4 ( 4 ) 5 ( 3 ) 8 ( 2 ) 15 ( 1 )
Street: 4 ( 6 ) 5 ( 5 ) 6 ( 4 ) 8 ( 3 ) 12 ( 2 ) 23 ( 1 )
Quad: 6 ( 6 ) 7 ( 5 ) 8 ( 4 ) 11 ( 3 ) 16 ( 2 ) 32 ( 1 )
DS: 9 ( 6 ) 11 ( 5 ) 13 ( 4 ) 17 ( 3 ) 26 ( 2 ) 51 ( 1 )
DS+Split: 11 / 3 ( 6 ) 13 / 4 ( 5 ) 16 / 4 ( 4 ) 22 / 6 ( 3 ) 32 / 8 ( 2 ) 63 / 16 ( 1 )
DS+Street: 11 / 5 ( 6 ) 13 / 6 ( 5 ) 16 / 7 ( 4 ) 22 / 9 ( 3 ) 32 / 13 ( 2 ) 63 / 26 ( 1 )
DS+Quad: 11 / 7 ( 6 ) 13 / 8 ( 5 ) 16 / 10 ( 4 ) 22 / 13 ( 3 ) 32 / 19 ( 2 ) 63 / 36 ( 1 )
DZ: 22 ( 6 ) 26 ( 5 ) 32 ( 4 ) 43 ( 3 ) 64 ( 2 ) 126 ( 1 )
EC: 43 ( 6 ) 52 ( 5 ) 64 ( 4 ) 85 ( 3 ) 127 ( 2 ) 252 ( 1 )
DZ+DZ 43 / 43 ( 6 ) 52 / 52 ( 5 ) 64 / 64 ( 4 ) 85 / 85 ( 3 ) 127 / 127 ( 2 ) 252 / 252 ( 1 )

5-DS+Split loss  278  2 : 243 / 3  28

Split: 3 ( 6 ) 4 ( 5 ) 5 ( 4 ) 6 ( 3 ) 9 ( 2 ) 17 ( 1 )
Street: 5 ( 6 ) 6 ( 5 ) 7 ( 4 ) 9 ( 3 ) 13 ( 2 ) 26 ( 1 )
Quad: 6 ( 6 ) 8 ( 5 ) 9 ( 4 ) 12 ( 3 ) 18 ( 2 ) 35 ( 1 )
DS: 10 ( 6 ) 12 ( 5 ) 15 ( 4 ) 19 ( 3 ) 29 ( 2 ) 56 ( 1 )
DS+Split: 12 / 3 ( 6 ) 15 / 4 ( 5 ) 18 / 5 ( 4 ) 24 / 6 ( 3 ) 36 / 9 ( 2 ) 70 / 18 ( 1 )
DS+Street: 12 / 5 ( 6 ) 15 / 6 ( 5 ) 18 / 8 ( 4 ) 24 / 10 ( 3 ) 36 / 15 ( 2 ) 70 / 28 ( 1 )
DS+Quad: 12 / 7 ( 6 ) 15 / 9 ( 5 ) 18 / 11 ( 4 ) 24 / 14 ( 3 ) 36 / 21 ( 2 ) 70 / 40 ( 1 )
DZ: 24 ( 6 ) 29 ( 5 ) 36 ( 4 ) 47 ( 3 ) 71 ( 2 ) 140 ( 1 )
EC: 48 ( 6 ) 57 ( 5 ) 71 ( 4 ) 94 ( 3 ) 141 ( 2 ) 280 ( 1 )
DZ+DZ 48 / 48 ( 6 ) 57 / 57 ( 5 ) 71 / 71 ( 4 ) 94 / 94 ( 3 ) 141 / 141 ( 2 ) 280 / 280 ( 1 )

6-DS+Street loss  304  2 : 252 / 3  27

Split: 4 ( 6 ) 4 ( 5 ) 5 ( 4 ) 7 ( 3 ) 10 ( 2 ) 18 ( 1 )
Street: 5 ( 6 ) 6 ( 5 ) 8 ( 4 ) 10 ( 3 ) 14 ( 2 ) 28 ( 1 )
Quad: 7 ( 6 ) 8 ( 5 ) 10 ( 4 ) 13 ( 3 ) 20 ( 2 ) 39 ( 1 )
DS: 11 ( 6 ) 13 ( 5 ) 16 ( 4 ) 21 ( 3 ) 31 ( 2 ) 62 ( 1 )
DS+Split: 13 / 4 ( 6 ) 16 / 4 ( 5 ) 20 / 5 ( 4 ) 26 / 7 ( 3 ) 39 / 10 ( 2 ) 77 / 20 ( 1 )
DS+Street: 13 / 6 ( 6 ) 16 / 7 ( 5 ) 20 / 8 ( 4 ) 26 / 11 ( 3 ) 39 / 16 ( 2 ) 77 / 31 ( 1 )
DS+Quad: 13 / 8 ( 6 ) 16 / 9 ( 5 ) 20 / 12 ( 4 ) 26 / 15 ( 3 ) 39 / 22 ( 2 ) 77 / 44 ( 1 )
DZ: 26 ( 6 ) 31 ( 5 ) 39 ( 4 ) 52 ( 3 ) 77 ( 2 ) 153 ( 1 )
EC: 52 ( 6 ) 62 ( 5 ) 78 ( 4 ) 103 ( 3 ) 154 ( 2 ) 306 ( 1 )
DZ+DZ 52 / 52 ( 6 ) 62 / 62 ( 5 ) 78 / 78 ( 4 ) 103 / 103 ( 3 ) 154 / 154 ( 2 ) 306 / 306 ( 1 )

5-DS+Split loss  329  2 : 260 / 3  26
4-DS loss  352  2 : 266 / 3  26
4-DS loss  376  2 : 272 / 3  25

Split: 4 ( 6 ) 5 ( 5 ) 6 ( 4 ) 8 ( 3 ) 12 ( 2 ) 23 ( 1 )
Street: 6 ( 6 ) 7 ( 5 ) 9 ( 4 ) 12 ( 3 ) 18 ( 2 ) 35 ( 1 )
Quad: 8 ( 6 ) 10 ( 5 ) 12 ( 4 ) 16 ( 3 ) 24 ( 2 ) 48 ( 1 )
DS: 13 ( 6 ) 16 ( 5 ) 20 ( 4 ) 26 ( 3 ) 38 ( 2 ) 76 ( 1 )
DS+Split: 16 / 4 ( 6 ) 20 / 5 ( 5 ) 24 / 6 ( 4 ) 32 / 8 ( 3 ) 48 / 12 ( 2 ) 95 / 24 ( 1 )
DS+Street: 16 / 7 ( 6 ) 20 / 8 ( 5 ) 24 / 10 ( 4 ) 32 / 13 ( 3 ) 48 / 19 ( 2 ) 95 / 38 ( 1 )
DS+Quad: 16 / 10 ( 6 ) 20 / 11 ( 5 ) 24 / 14 ( 4 ) 32 / 19 ( 3 ) 48 / 28 ( 2 ) 95 / 54 ( 1 )
DZ: 32 ( 6 ) 39 ( 5 ) 48 ( 4 ) 64 ( 3 ) 95 ( 2 ) 189 ( 1 )
EC: 64 ( 6 ) 77 ( 5 ) 96 ( 4 ) 127 ( 3 ) 190 ( 2 ) 378 ( 1 )
DZ+DZ 64 / 64 ( 6 ) 77 / 77 ( 5 ) 96 / 96 ( 4 ) 127 / 127 ( 3 ) 190 / 190 ( 2 ) 378 / 378 ( 1 )

4-DS loss  396  2 : 278 / 3  25
4-DS loss  417  2 : 284 / 3  24
4-DS loss  439  2 : 290 / 3  24
4-DS loss  462  2 : 296 / 3  23
3-Quad loss  482  2 : 300 / 4  22

Split: 5 ( 6 ) 6 ( 5 ) 8 ( 4 ) 10 ( 3 ) 15 ( 2 ) 29 ( 1 )
Street: 8 ( 6 ) 9 ( 5 ) 12 ( 4 ) 15 ( 3 ) 23 ( 2 ) 44 ( 1 )
Quad: 11 ( 6 ) 13 ( 5 ) 16 ( 4 ) 21 ( 3 ) 31 ( 2 ) 61 ( 1 )
DS: 17 ( 6 ) 20 ( 5 ) 25 ( 4 ) 33 ( 3 ) 49 ( 2 ) 97 ( 1 )
DS+Split: 21 / 6 ( 6 ) 25 / 7 ( 5 ) 31 / 8 ( 4 ) 41 / 11 ( 3 ) 61 / 16 ( 2 ) 121 / 31 ( 1 )
DS+Street: 21 / 9 ( 6 ) 25 / 10 ( 5 ) 31 / 13 ( 4 ) 41 / 17 ( 3 ) 61 / 25 ( 2 ) 121 / 49 ( 1 )
DS+Quad: 21 / 12 ( 6 ) 25 / 14 ( 5 ) 31 / 18 ( 4 ) 41 / 24 ( 3 ) 61 / 35 ( 2 ) 121 / 70 ( 1 )
DZ: 41 ( 6 ) 49 ( 5 ) 61 ( 4 ) 81 ( 3 ) 122 ( 2 ) 242 ( 1 )
EC: 82 ( 6 ) 98 ( 5 ) 122 ( 4 ) 162 ( 3 ) 243 ( 2 ) 484 ( 1 )
DZ+DZ 82 / 82 ( 6 ) 98 / 98 ( 5 ) 122 / 122 ( 4 ) 162 / 162 ( 3 ) 243 / 243 ( 2 ) 484 / 484 ( 1 )

4-DS loss  502  2 : 306 / 4  22
4-DS loss  523  2 : 312 / 4  21
3-Quad loss  540  2 : 316 / 4  21
3-Quad loss  558  2 : 320 / 4  21
3-Quad loss  576  2 : 324 / 4  20
3-Quad loss  595  2 : 328 / 4  20 <=== 0:109
3-Quad WIN  443  3 : 332 / 3  23

Split: 5 ( 6 ) 6 ( 5 ) 7 ( 4 ) 9 ( 3 ) 14 ( 2 ) 27 ( 1 )
Street: 7 ( 6 ) 9 ( 5 ) 11 ( 4 ) 14 ( 3 ) 21 ( 2 ) 41 ( 1 )
Quad: 10 ( 6 ) 12 ( 5 ) 14 ( 4 ) 19 ( 3 ) 28 ( 2 ) 56 ( 1 )
DS: 15 ( 6 ) 18 ( 5 ) 23 ( 4 ) 30 ( 3 ) 45 ( 2 ) 89 ( 1 )
DS+Split: 19 / 5 ( 6 ) 23 / 6 ( 5 ) 28 / 7 ( 4 ) 38 / 10 ( 3 ) 56 / 14 ( 2 ) 112 / 28 ( 1 )
DS+Street: 19 / 8 ( 6 ) 23 / 9 ( 5 ) 28 / 12 ( 4 ) 38 / 15 ( 3 ) 56 / 23 ( 2 ) 112 / 45 ( 1 )
DS+Quad: 19 / 11 ( 6 ) 23 / 13 ( 5 ) 28 / 16 ( 4 ) 38 / 22 ( 3 ) 56 / 32 ( 2 ) 112 / 64 ( 1 )
DZ: 38 ( 6 ) 45 ( 5 ) 56 ( 4 ) 75 ( 3 ) 112 ( 2 ) 223 ( 1 )
EC: 75 ( 6 ) 90 ( 5 ) 112 ( 4 ) 149 ( 3 ) 223 ( 2 ) 445 ( 1 )
DZ+DZ 75 / 75 ( 6 ) 90 / 90 ( 5 ) 112 / 112 ( 4 ) 149 / 149 ( 3 ) 223 / 223 ( 2 ) 445 / 445 ( 1 )

4-DS loss  466  3 : 338 / 3  23
3-Quad loss  486  3 : 342 / 3  22
3-Quad loss  507  3 : 346 / 3  22
3-Quad loss  529  3 : 350 / 3  21

Split: 6 ( 6 ) 7 ( 5 ) 8 ( 4 ) 11 ( 3 ) 16 ( 2 ) 32 ( 1 )
Street: 9 ( 6 ) 10 ( 5 ) 13 ( 4 ) 17 ( 3 ) 25 ( 2 ) 49 ( 1 )
Quad: 12 ( 6 ) 14 ( 5 ) 17 ( 4 ) 23 ( 3 ) 34 ( 2 ) 67 ( 1 )
DS: 18 ( 6 ) 22 ( 5 ) 27 ( 4 ) 36 ( 3 ) 54 ( 2 ) 107 ( 1 )
DS+Split: 23 / 6 ( 6 ) 27 / 7 ( 5 ) 34 / 9 ( 4 ) 45 / 12 ( 3 ) 67 / 17 ( 2 ) 133 / 34 ( 1 )
DS+Street: 23 / 9 ( 6 ) 27 / 11 ( 5 ) 34 / 14 ( 4 ) 45 / 18 ( 3 ) 67 / 27 ( 2 ) 133 / 54 ( 1 )
DS+Quad: 23 / 13 ( 6 ) 27 / 16 ( 5 ) 34 / 20 ( 4 ) 45 / 26 ( 3 ) 67 / 38 ( 2 ) 133 / 76 ( 1 )
DZ: 45 ( 6 ) 54 ( 5 ) 67 ( 4 ) 89 ( 3 ) 133 ( 2 ) 266 ( 1 )
EC: 90 ( 6 ) 107 ( 5 ) 134 ( 4 ) 178 ( 3 ) 266 ( 2 ) 531 ( 1 )
DZ+DZ 90 / 90 ( 6 ) 107 / 107 ( 5 ) 134 / 134 ( 4 ) 178 / 178 ( 3 ) 266 / 266 ( 2 ) 531 / 531 ( 1 )

3-Quad loss  546  3 : 354 / 3  21
3-Quad loss  564  3 : 358 / 3  20
3-Quad loss  582  3 : 362 / 4  20
3-Quad loss  601  3 : 366 / 4  19
3-Quad loss  620  3 : 370 / 4  19

Split: 7 ( 6 ) 8 ( 5 ) 10 ( 4 ) 13 ( 3 ) 19 ( 2 ) 37 ( 1 )
Street: 10 ( 6 ) 12 ( 5 ) 15 ( 4 ) 19 ( 3 ) 29 ( 2 ) 57 ( 1 )
Quad: 14 ( 6 ) 16 ( 5 ) 20 ( 4 ) 26 ( 3 ) 39 ( 2 ) 78 ( 1 )
DS: 21 ( 6 ) 26 ( 5 ) 32 ( 4 ) 42 ( 3 ) 63 ( 2 ) 125 ( 1 )
DS+Split: 27 / 7 ( 6 ) 32 / 8 ( 5 ) 40 / 10 ( 4 ) 52 / 13 ( 3 ) 78 / 20 ( 2 ) 156 / 39 ( 1 )
DS+Street: 27 / 11 ( 6 ) 32 / 13 ( 5 ) 40 / 16 ( 4 ) 52 / 21 ( 3 ) 78 / 32 ( 2 ) 156 / 63 ( 1 )
DS+Quad: 27 / 15 ( 6 ) 32 / 18 ( 5 ) 40 / 23 ( 4 ) 52 / 30 ( 3 ) 78 / 45 ( 2 ) 156 / 89 ( 1 )
DZ: 53 ( 6 ) 63 ( 5 ) 79 ( 4 ) 104 ( 3 ) 156 ( 2 ) 311 ( 1 )
EC: 105 ( 6 ) 126 ( 5 ) 157 ( 4 ) 208 ( 3 ) 312 ( 2 ) 622 ( 1 )
DZ+DZ 105 / 105 ( 6 ) 126 / 126 ( 5 ) 157 / 157 ( 4 ) 208 / 208 ( 3 ) 312 / 312 ( 2 ) 622 / 622 ( 1 )

3-Quad loss  636  3 : 374 / 4  19
3-Quad WIN  500  4 : 378 / 3  22
3-Quad loss  521  4 : 382 / 3  21

Split: 6 ( 6 ) 7 ( 5 ) 8 ( 4 ) 11 ( 3 ) 16 ( 2 ) 31 ( 1 )
Street: 8 ( 6 ) 10 ( 5 ) 12 ( 4 ) 16 ( 3 ) 24 ( 2 ) 48 ( 1 )
Quad: 11 ( 6 ) 14 ( 5 ) 17 ( 4 ) 22 ( 3 ) 33 ( 2 ) 66 ( 1 )
DS: 18 ( 6 ) 22 ( 5 ) 27 ( 4 ) 35 ( 3 ) 53 ( 2 ) 105 ( 1 )
DS+Split: 22 / 6 ( 6 ) 27 / 7 ( 5 ) 33 / 9 ( 4 ) 44 / 11 ( 3 ) 66 / 17 ( 2 ) 131 / 33 ( 1 )
DS+Street: 22 / 9 ( 6 ) 27 / 11 ( 5 ) 33 / 14 ( 4 ) 44 / 18 ( 3 ) 66 / 27 ( 2 ) 131 / 53 ( 1 )
DS+Quad: 22 / 13 ( 6 ) 27 / 16 ( 5 ) 33 / 19 ( 4 ) 44 / 25 ( 3 ) 66 / 38 ( 2 ) 131 / 75 ( 1 )
DZ: 44 ( 6 ) 53 ( 5 ) 66 ( 4 ) 88 ( 3 ) 131 ( 2 ) 262 ( 1 )
EC: 88 ( 6 ) 106 ( 5 ) 132 ( 4 ) 175 ( 3 ) 262 ( 2 ) 523 ( 1 )
DZ+DZ 88 / 88 ( 6 ) 106 / 106 ( 5 ) 132 / 132 ( 4 ) 175 / 175 ( 3 ) 262 / 262 ( 2 ) 523 / 523 ( 1 )

3-Quad loss  538  4 : 386 / 3  21
3-Quad loss  555  4 : 390 / 3  21
3-Quad loss  573  4 : 394 / 3  20
3-Quad loss  592  4 : 398 / 3  20
3-Quad loss  611  4 : 402 / 3  19
2-Street loss  630  4 : 405 / 3  19

Split: 7 ( 6 ) 8 ( 5 ) 10 ( 4 ) 13 ( 3 ) 19 ( 2 ) 38 ( 1 )
Street: 10 ( 6 ) 12 ( 5 ) 15 ( 4 ) 20 ( 3 ) 29 ( 2 ) 58 ( 1 )
Quad: 14 ( 6 ) 16 ( 5 ) 20 ( 4 ) 27 ( 3 ) 40 ( 2 ) 79 ( 1 )
DS: 22 ( 6 ) 26 ( 5 ) 32 ( 4 ) 43 ( 3 ) 64 ( 2 ) 127 ( 1 )
DS+Split: 27 / 7 ( 6 ) 32 / 8 ( 5 ) 40 / 10 ( 4 ) 53 / 14 ( 3 ) 80 / 20 ( 2 ) 158 / 40 ( 1 )
DS+Street: 27 / 11 ( 6 ) 32 / 13 ( 5 ) 40 / 16 ( 4 ) 53 / 22 ( 3 ) 80 / 32 ( 2 ) 158 / 64 ( 1 )
DS+Quad: 27 / 16 ( 6 ) 32 / 19 ( 5 ) 40 / 23 ( 4 ) 53 / 31 ( 3 ) 80 / 46 ( 2 ) 158 / 91 ( 1 )
DZ: 54 ( 6 ) 64 ( 5 ) 80 ( 4 ) 106 ( 3 ) 159 ( 2 ) 316 ( 1 )
EC: 107 ( 6 ) 128 ( 5 ) 159 ( 4 ) 212 ( 3 ) 317 ( 2 ) 632 ( 1 )
DZ+DZ 107 / 107 ( 6 ) 128 / 128 ( 5 ) 159 / 159 ( 4 ) 212 / 212 ( 3 ) 317 / 317 ( 2 ) 632 / 632 ( 1 )

2-Street loss  645  4 : 408 / 3  18
2-Street loss  660  4 : 411 / 3  18
2-Street loss  676  4 : 414 / 3  18
2-Street loss  692  4 : 417 / 3  17
2-Street loss  708  4 : 420 / 4  17
2-Street loss  725  4 : 423 / 4  16

Split: 8 ( 6 ) 9 ( 5 ) 11 ( 4 ) 15 ( 3 ) 22 ( 2 ) 43 ( 1 )
Street: 12 ( 6 ) 14 ( 5 ) 17 ( 4 ) 23 ( 3 ) 34 ( 2 ) 67 ( 1 )
Quad: 16 ( 6 ) 19 ( 5 ) 23 ( 4 ) 31 ( 3 ) 46 ( 2 ) 91 ( 1 )
DS: 25 ( 6 ) 30 ( 5 ) 37 ( 4 ) 49 ( 3 ) 73 ( 2 ) 146 ( 1 )
DS+Split: 31 / 8 ( 6 ) 37 / 10 ( 5 ) 46 / 12 ( 4 ) 61 / 16 ( 3 ) 91 / 23 ( 2 ) 182 / 46 ( 1 )
DS+Street: 31 / 13 ( 6 ) 37 / 15 ( 5 ) 46 / 19 ( 4 ) 61 / 25 ( 3 ) 91 / 37 ( 2 ) 182 / 73 ( 1 )
DS+Quad: 31 / 18 ( 6 ) 37 / 21 ( 5 ) 46 / 27 ( 4 ) 61 / 35 ( 3 ) 91 / 52 ( 2 ) 182 / 104 ( 1 )
DZ: 61 ( 6 ) 74 ( 5 ) 92 ( 4 ) 122 ( 3 ) 182 ( 2 ) 364 ( 1 )
EC: 122 ( 6 ) 147 ( 5 ) 183 ( 4 ) 243 ( 3 ) 364 ( 2 ) 727 ( 1 )
DZ+DZ 122 / 122 ( 6 ) 147 / 147 ( 5 ) 183 / 183 ( 4 ) 243 / 243 ( 3 ) 364 / 364 ( 2 ) 727 / 727 ( 1 )

2-Street loss  739  4 : 426 / 4  16
2-Street loss  753  4 : 429 / 4  16
2-Street loss  767  4 : 432 / 4  15
2-Street loss  782  4 : 435 / 4  15
2-Street loss  797  4 : 438 / 4  15
2-Street loss  812  4 : 441 / 4  14
1-Split loss  825  4 : 443 / 4  14
1-Split loss  838  4 : 445 / 4  14
1-Split loss  851  4 : 447 / 4  13
1-Split loss  864  4 : 449 / 4  13
1-Split loss  877  4 : 451 / 4  13
1-Split loss  890  4 : 453 / 4  12

Split: 9 ( 6 ) 11 ( 5 ) 14 ( 4 ) 18 ( 3 ) 27 ( 2 ) 53 ( 1 )
Street: 14 ( 6 ) 17 ( 5 ) 21 ( 4 ) 28 ( 3 ) 41 ( 2 ) 82 ( 1 )
Quad: 19 ( 6 ) 23 ( 5 ) 28 ( 4 ) 38 ( 3 ) 56 ( 2 ) 112 ( 1 )
DS: 30 ( 6 ) 36 ( 5 ) 45 ( 4 ) 60 ( 3 ) 90 ( 2 ) 179 ( 1 )
DS+Split: 38 / 10 ( 6 ) 45 / 12 ( 5 ) 56 / 14 ( 4 ) 75 / 19 ( 3 ) 112 / 28 ( 2 ) 223 / 56 ( 1 )
DS+Street: 38 / 15 ( 6 ) 45 / 18 ( 5 ) 56 / 23 ( 4 ) 75 / 30 ( 3 ) 112 / 45 ( 2 ) 223 / 90 ( 1 )
DS+Quad: 38 / 22 ( 6 ) 45 / 26 ( 5 ) 56 / 32 ( 4 ) 75 / 43 ( 3 ) 112 / 64 ( 2 ) 223 / 128 ( 1 )
DZ: 75 ( 6 ) 90 ( 5 ) 112 ( 4 ) 149 ( 3 ) 224 ( 2 ) 446 ( 1 )
EC: 150 ( 6 ) 180 ( 5 ) 224 ( 4 ) 298 ( 3 ) 447 ( 2 ) 892 ( 1 )
DZ+DZ 150 / 150 ( 6 ) 180 / 180 ( 5 ) 224 / 224 ( 4 ) 298 / 298 ( 3 ) 447 / 447 ( 2 ) 892 / 892 ( 1 )

1-Split loss  901  4 : 455 / 4  12
1-Split loss  912  4 : 457 / 4  12
1-Split WIN  725  5 : 459 / 3  16
1-Split loss  740  5 : 461 / 3  16
1-Split loss  755  5 : 463 / 3  16
1-Split loss  770  5 : 465 / 3  15

Split: 8 ( 6 ) 10 ( 5 ) 12 ( 4 ) 16 ( 3 ) 23 ( 2 ) 46 ( 1 )
Street: 12 ( 6 ) 15 ( 5 ) 18 ( 4 ) 24 ( 3 ) 36 ( 2 ) 71 ( 1 )
Quad: 17 ( 6 ) 20 ( 5 ) 25 ( 4 ) 33 ( 3 ) 49 ( 2 ) 97 ( 1 )
DS: 26 ( 6 ) 32 ( 5 ) 39 ( 4 ) 52 ( 3 ) 78 ( 2 ) 155 ( 1 )
DS+Split: 33 / 9 ( 6 ) 39 / 10 ( 5 ) 49 / 13 ( 4 ) 65 / 17 ( 3 ) 97 / 25 ( 2 ) 193 / 49 ( 1 )
DS+Street: 33 / 13 ( 6 ) 39 / 16 ( 5 ) 49 / 20 ( 4 ) 65 / 26 ( 3 ) 97 / 39 ( 2 ) 193 / 78 ( 1 )
DS+Quad: 33 / 19 ( 6 ) 39 / 23 ( 5 ) 49 / 28 ( 4 ) 65 / 37 ( 3 ) 97 / 56 ( 2 ) 193 / 111 ( 1 )
DZ: 65 ( 6 ) 78 ( 5 ) 97 ( 4 ) 129 ( 3 ) 194 ( 2 ) 386 ( 1 )
EC: 130 ( 6 ) 156 ( 5 ) 194 ( 4 ) 258 ( 3 ) 387 ( 2 ) 772 ( 1 )
DZ+DZ 130 / 130 ( 6 ) 156 / 156 ( 5 ) 194 / 194 ( 4 ) 258 / 258 ( 3 ) 387 / 387 ( 2 ) 772 / 772 ( 1 )

1-Split WIN  566  6 : 467 / 2  20

Split: 6 ( 6 ) 7 ( 5 ) 9 ( 4 ) 12 ( 3 ) 17 ( 2 ) 34 ( 1 )
Street: 9 ( 6 ) 11 ( 5 ) 13 ( 4 ) 18 ( 3 ) 26 ( 2 ) 52 ( 1 )
Quad: 12 ( 6 ) 15 ( 5 ) 18 ( 4 ) 24 ( 3 ) 36 ( 2 ) 71 ( 1 )
DS: 20 ( 6 ) 23 ( 5 ) 29 ( 4 ) 38 ( 3 ) 57 ( 2 ) 114 ( 1 )
DS+Split: 24 / 6 ( 6 ) 29 / 8 ( 5 ) 36 / 9 ( 4 ) 48 / 12 ( 3 ) 72 / 18 ( 2 ) 142 / 36 ( 1 )
DS+Street: 24 / 10 ( 6 ) 29 / 12 ( 5 ) 36 / 15 ( 4 ) 48 / 19 ( 3 ) 72 / 29 ( 2 ) 142 / 57 ( 1 )
DS+Quad: 24 / 14 ( 6 ) 29 / 17 ( 5 ) 36 / 21 ( 4 ) 48 / 28 ( 3 ) 72 / 41 ( 2 ) 142 / 82 ( 1 )
DZ: 48 ( 6 ) 58 ( 5 ) 72 ( 4 ) 95 ( 3 ) 143 ( 2 ) 284 ( 1 )
EC: 96 ( 6 ) 115 ( 5 ) 143 ( 4 ) 190 ( 3 ) 285 ( 2 ) 568 ( 1 )
DZ+DZ 96 / 96 ( 6 ) 115 / 115 ( 5 ) 143 / 143 ( 4 ) 190 / 190 ( 3 ) 285 / 285 ( 2 ) 568 / 568 ( 1 )

2-Street loss  584  6 : 470 / 2  20
2-Street loss  602  6 : 473 / 2  19
2-Street loss  621  6 : 476 / 2  19
2-Street loss  640  6 : 479 / 2  19
1-Split loss  659  6 : 481 / 3  18

Split: 7 ( 6 ) 8 ( 5 ) 10 ( 4 ) 13 ( 3 ) 20 ( 2 ) 39 ( 1 )
Street: 11 ( 6 ) 13 ( 5 ) 16 ( 4 ) 21 ( 3 ) 31 ( 2 ) 61 ( 1 )
Quad: 14 ( 6 ) 17 ( 5 ) 21 ( 4 ) 28 ( 3 ) 42 ( 2 ) 83 ( 1 )
DS: 23 ( 6 ) 27 ( 5 ) 34 ( 4 ) 45 ( 3 ) 67 ( 2 ) 133 ( 1 )
DS+Split: 28 / 7 ( 6 ) 34 / 9 ( 5 ) 42 / 11 ( 4 ) 56 / 14 ( 3 ) 83 / 21 ( 2 ) 166 / 42 ( 1 )
DS+Street: 28 / 12 ( 6 ) 34 / 14 ( 5 ) 42 / 17 ( 4 ) 56 / 23 ( 3 ) 83 / 34 ( 2 ) 166 / 67 ( 1 )
DS+Quad: 28 / 16 ( 6 ) 34 / 19 ( 5 ) 42 / 24 ( 4 ) 56 / 32 ( 3 ) 83 / 48 ( 2 ) 166 / 95 ( 1 )
DZ: 56 ( 6 ) 67 ( 5 ) 83 ( 4 ) 111 ( 3 ) 166 ( 2 ) 331 ( 1 )
EC: 111 ( 6 ) 133 ( 5 ) 166 ( 4 ) 221 ( 3 ) 331 ( 2 ) 661 ( 1 )
DZ+DZ 111 / 111 ( 6 ) 133 / 133 ( 5 ) 166 / 166 ( 4 ) 221 / 221 ( 3 ) 331 / 331 ( 2 ) 661 / 661 ( 1 )

2-Street WIN  483  7 : 484 / 2  22

(PART II, cont. below)
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: Reyth on March 08, 2017, 10:11:54 AM
(PART II)

Split: 5 ( 6 ) 6 ( 5 ) 8 ( 4 ) 10 ( 3 ) 15 ( 2 ) 29 ( 1 )
Street: 8 ( 6 ) 9 ( 5 ) 12 ( 4 ) 15 ( 3 ) 23 ( 2 ) 45 ( 1 )
Quad: 11 ( 6 ) 13 ( 5 ) 16 ( 4 ) 21 ( 3 ) 31 ( 2 ) 61 ( 1 )
DS: 17 ( 6 ) 20 ( 5 ) 25 ( 4 ) 33 ( 3 ) 49 ( 2 ) 97 ( 1 )
DS+Split: 21 / 6 ( 6 ) 25 / 7 ( 5 ) 31 / 8 ( 4 ) 41 / 11 ( 3 ) 61 / 16 ( 2 ) 122 / 31 ( 1 )
DS+Street: 21 / 9 ( 6 ) 25 / 10 ( 5 ) 31 / 13 ( 4 ) 41 / 17 ( 3 ) 61 / 25 ( 2 ) 122 / 49 ( 1 )
DS+Quad: 21 / 12 ( 6 ) 25 / 14 ( 5 ) 31 / 18 ( 4 ) 41 / 24 ( 3 ) 61 / 35 ( 2 ) 122 / 70 ( 1 )
DZ: 41 ( 6 ) 49 ( 5 ) 61 ( 4 ) 82 ( 3 ) 122 ( 2 ) 243 ( 1 )
EC: 82 ( 6 ) 98 ( 5 ) 122 ( 4 ) 163 ( 3 ) 243 ( 2 ) 485 ( 1 )
DZ+DZ 82 / 82 ( 6 ) 98 / 98 ( 5 ) 122 / 122 ( 4 ) 163 / 163 ( 3 ) 243 / 243 ( 2 ) 485 / 485 ( 1 )

3-Quad loss  504  7 : 488 / 2  22
3-Quad WIN  328  8 : 492 / 1  26
1-Split loss  348  8 : 494 / 1  26
1-Split loss  369  8 : 496 / 1  25
1-Split loss  391  8 : 498 / 1  25
1-Split loss  415  8 : 500 / 1  24

Split: 5 ( 6 ) 5 ( 5 ) 7 ( 4 ) 9 ( 3 ) 13 ( 2 ) 25 ( 1 )
Street: 7 ( 6 ) 8 ( 5 ) 10 ( 4 ) 13 ( 3 ) 19 ( 2 ) 38 ( 1 )
Quad: 9 ( 6 ) 11 ( 5 ) 14 ( 4 ) 18 ( 3 ) 27 ( 2 ) 53 ( 1 )
DS: 15 ( 6 ) 17 ( 5 ) 21 ( 4 ) 28 ( 3 ) 42 ( 2 ) 84 ( 1 )
DS+Split: 18 / 5 ( 6 ) 22 / 6 ( 5 ) 27 / 7 ( 4 ) 35 / 9 ( 3 ) 53 / 14 ( 2 ) 105 / 27 ( 1 )
DS+Street: 18 / 8 ( 6 ) 22 / 9 ( 5 ) 27 / 11 ( 4 ) 35 / 14 ( 3 ) 53 / 21 ( 2 ) 105 / 42 ( 1 )
DS+Quad: 18 / 11 ( 6 ) 22 / 13 ( 5 ) 27 / 15 ( 4 ) 35 / 20 ( 3 ) 53 / 30 ( 2 ) 105 / 60 ( 1 )
DZ: 36 ( 6 ) 43 ( 5 ) 53 ( 4 ) 70 ( 3 ) 105 ( 2 ) 209 ( 1 )
EC: 71 ( 6 ) 85 ( 5 ) 105 ( 4 ) 140 ( 3 ) 209 ( 2 ) 417 ( 1 )
DZ+DZ 71 / 71 ( 6 ) 85 / 85 ( 5 ) 105 / 105 ( 4 ) 140 / 140 ( 3 ) 209 / 209 ( 2 ) 417 / 417 ( 1 )

1-Split loss  428  8 : 502 / 1  24
1-Split loss  441  8 : 504 / 1  23
1-Split loss  454  8 : 506 / 1  23
1-Split loss  467  8 : 508 / 1  23
1-Split loss  481  8 : 510 / 1  22
1-Split loss  495  8 : 512 / 1  22
1-Split loss  509  8 : 514 / 1  22
1-Split loss  524  8 : 516 / 1  21
1-Split loss  539  8 : 518 / 1  21
1-Split loss  555  8 : 520 / 1  21
1-Split loss  571  8 : 522 / 1  20
1-Split loss  588  8 : 524 / 1  20
1-Split loss  605  8 : 526 / 1  19
1-Split loss  623  8 : 528 / 1  19
1-Split loss  641  8 : 530 / 1  18
1-Split loss  660  8 : 532 / 1  18
1-Split loss  679  8 : 534 / 1  18
1-Split loss  699  8 : 536 / 1  17
1-Split loss  719  8 : 538 / 1  17
1-Split loss  740  8 : 540 / 2  16

Split: 8 ( 6 ) 9 ( 5 ) 11 ( 4 ) 15 ( 3 ) 22 ( 2 ) 44 ( 1 )
Street: 12 ( 6 ) 14 ( 5 ) 17 ( 4 ) 23 ( 3 ) 34 ( 2 ) 68 ( 1 )
Quad: 16 ( 6 ) 19 ( 5 ) 24 ( 4 ) 31 ( 3 ) 47 ( 2 ) 93 ( 1 )
DS: 25 ( 6 ) 30 ( 5 ) 38 ( 4 ) 50 ( 3 ) 75 ( 2 ) 149 ( 1 )
DS+Split: 32 / 8 ( 6 ) 38 / 10 ( 5 ) 47 / 12 ( 4 ) 62 / 16 ( 3 ) 93 / 24 ( 2 ) 186 / 47 ( 1 )
DS+Street: 32 / 13 ( 6 ) 38 / 15 ( 5 ) 47 / 19 ( 4 ) 62 / 25 ( 3 ) 93 / 38 ( 2 ) 186 / 75 ( 1 )
DS+Quad: 32 / 18 ( 6 ) 38 / 22 ( 5 ) 47 / 27 ( 4 ) 62 / 36 ( 3 ) 93 / 54 ( 2 ) 186 / 106 ( 1 )
DZ: 63 ( 6 ) 75 ( 5 ) 94 ( 4 ) 124 ( 3 ) 186 ( 2 ) 371 ( 1 )
EC: 125 ( 6 ) 150 ( 5 ) 187 ( 4 ) 248 ( 3 ) 372 ( 2 ) 742 ( 1 )
DZ+DZ 125 / 125 ( 6 ) 150 / 150 ( 5 ) 187 / 187 ( 4 ) 248 / 248 ( 3 ) 372 / 372 ( 2 ) 742 / 742 ( 1 )

1-Split loss  755  8 : 542 / 2  16
1-Split loss  770  8 : 544 / 2  15
1-Split loss  781  8 : 546 / 2  15
1-Split loss  792  8 : 548 / 2  15
1-Split loss  803  8 : 550 / 2  14
1-Split loss  815  8 : 552 / 2  14
1-Split loss  827  8 : 554 / 2  14
1-Split loss  839  8 : 556 / 2  14
1-Split loss  851  8 : 558 / 2  13
1-Split loss  864  8 : 560 / 2  13
1-Split loss  877  8 : 562 / 2  13
1-Split loss  890  8 : 564 / 2  12
1-Split loss  903  8 : 566 / 2  12
1-Split loss  916  8 : 568 / 2  12
1-Split loss  930  8 : 570 / 2  11
1-Split loss  944  8 : 572 / 2  11
1-Split loss  958  8 : 574 / 2  11
1-Split loss  972  8 : 576 / 2  10
1-Split loss  986  8 : 578 / 2  10
1-Split loss  1001  8 : 580 / 2  9
1-Split loss  1016  8 : 582 / 2  9
1-Split loss  1031  8 : 584 / 2  9
1-Split loss  1046  8 : 586 / 2  8
1-Split loss  1061  8 : 588 / 2  8
1-Split loss  1077  8 : 590 / 2  8
1-Split loss  1093  8 : 592 / 2  7
1-Split loss  1109  8 : 594 / 2  7
1-Split loss  1125  8 : 596 / 2  6
1-Split loss  1142  8 : 598 / 2  6
1-Split loss  1159  8 : 600 / 3  6
1-Split WIN  739  9 : 602 / 2  16

Split: 8 ( 6 ) 9 ( 5 ) 11 ( 4 ) 15 ( 3 ) 22 ( 2 ) 44 ( 1 )
Street: 12 ( 6 ) 14 ( 5 ) 17 ( 4 ) 23 ( 3 ) 34 ( 2 ) 68 ( 1 )
Quad: 16 ( 6 ) 19 ( 5 ) 24 ( 4 ) 31 ( 3 ) 47 ( 2 ) 93 ( 1 )
DS: 25 ( 6 ) 30 ( 5 ) 38 ( 4 ) 50 ( 3 ) 75 ( 2 ) 149 ( 1 )
DS+Split: 32 / 8 ( 6 ) 38 / 10 ( 5 ) 47 / 12 ( 4 ) 62 / 16 ( 3 ) 93 / 24 ( 2 ) 186 / 47 ( 1 )
DS+Street: 32 / 13 ( 6 ) 38 / 15 ( 5 ) 47 / 19 ( 4 ) 62 / 25 ( 3 ) 93 / 38 ( 2 ) 186 / 75 ( 1 )
DS+Quad: 32 / 18 ( 6 ) 38 / 22 ( 5 ) 47 / 27 ( 4 ) 62 / 36 ( 3 ) 93 / 53 ( 2 ) 186 / 106 ( 1 )
DZ: 63 ( 6 ) 75 ( 5 ) 93 ( 4 ) 124 ( 3 ) 186 ( 2 ) 371 ( 1 )
EC: 125 ( 6 ) 149 ( 5 ) 186 ( 4 ) 248 ( 3 ) 371 ( 2 ) 741 ( 1 )
DZ+DZ 125 / 125 ( 6 ) 149 / 149 ( 5 ) 186 / 186 ( 4 ) 248 / 248 ( 3 ) 371 / 371 ( 2 ) 741 / 741 ( 1 )

1-Split loss  754  9 : 604 / 2  16
1-Split loss  769  9 : 606 / 2  15
1-Split loss  780  9 : 608 / 2  15
1-Split loss  792  9 : 610 / 2  15
1-Split loss  804  9 : 612 / 2  14
1-Split loss  816  9 : 614 / 2  14
1-Split loss  828  9 : 616 / 2  14
1-Split loss  840  9 : 618 / 2  14
1-Split loss  853  9 : 620 / 2  13
1-Split loss  866  9 : 622 / 2  13
1-Split loss  879  9 : 624 / 2  13
1-Split loss  892  9 : 626 / 2  12
1-Split loss  905  9 : 628 / 2  12
1-Split loss  918  9 : 630 / 2  12
1-Split loss  932  9 : 632 / 2  11
1-Split loss  946  9 : 634 / 2  11
1-Split WIN  456  10 : 636 / 1  23

Split: 5 ( 6 ) 6 ( 5 ) 7 ( 4 ) 10 ( 3 ) 14 ( 2 ) 27 ( 1 )
Street: 8 ( 6 ) 9 ( 5 ) 11 ( 4 ) 14 ( 3 ) 21 ( 2 ) 42 ( 1 )
Quad: 10 ( 6 ) 12 ( 5 ) 15 ( 4 ) 20 ( 3 ) 29 ( 2 ) 58 ( 1 )
DS: 16 ( 6 ) 19 ( 5 ) 24 ( 4 ) 31 ( 3 ) 46 ( 2 ) 92 ( 1 )
DS+Split: 20 / 5 ( 6 ) 24 / 6 ( 5 ) 29 / 8 ( 4 ) 39 / 10 ( 3 ) 58 / 15 ( 2 ) 115 / 29 ( 1 )
DS+Street: 20 / 8 ( 6 ) 24 / 10 ( 5 ) 29 / 12 ( 4 ) 39 / 16 ( 3 ) 58 / 23 ( 2 ) 115 / 46 ( 1 )
DS+Quad: 20 / 12 ( 6 ) 24 / 14 ( 5 ) 29 / 17 ( 4 ) 39 / 22 ( 3 ) 58 / 33 ( 2 ) 115 / 66 ( 1 )
DZ: 39 ( 6 ) 47 ( 5 ) 58 ( 4 ) 77 ( 3 ) 115 ( 2 ) 229 ( 1 )
EC: 78 ( 6 ) 93 ( 5 ) 116 ( 4 ) 154 ( 3 ) 230 ( 2 ) 458 ( 1 )
DZ+DZ 78 / 78 ( 6 ) 93 / 93 ( 5 ) 116 / 116 ( 4 ) 154 / 154 ( 3 ) 230 / 230 ( 2 ) 458 / 458 ( 1 )

1-Split loss  470  10 : 638 / 1  23
1-Split loss  484  10 : 640 / 1  22
1-Split loss  498  10 : 642 / 1  22
1-Split loss  513  10 : 644 / 1  22
1-Split loss  528  10 : 646 / 1  21
1-Split loss  544  10 : 648 / 1  21
1-Split loss  560  10 : 650 / 1  21
1-Split loss  577  10 : 652 / 1  20
1-Split loss  594  10 : 654 / 1  20
1-Split loss  611  10 : 656 / 1  19
1-Split loss  629  10 : 658 / 1  19
1-Split loss  647  10 : 660 / 2  18
1-Split loss  666  10 : 662 / 2  18

Split: 7 ( 6 ) 8 ( 5 ) 10 ( 4 ) 14 ( 3 ) 20 ( 2 ) 40 ( 1 )
Street: 11 ( 6 ) 13 ( 5 ) 16 ( 4 ) 21 ( 3 ) 31 ( 2 ) 61 ( 1 )
Quad: 15 ( 6 ) 17 ( 5 ) 21 ( 4 ) 28 ( 3 ) 42 ( 2 ) 84 ( 1 )
DS: 23 ( 6 ) 27 ( 5 ) 34 ( 4 ) 45 ( 3 ) 67 ( 2 ) 134 ( 1 )
DS+Split: 29 / 8 ( 6 ) 34 / 9 ( 5 ) 42 / 11 ( 4 ) 56 / 14 ( 3 ) 84 / 21 ( 2 ) 167 / 42 ( 1 )
DS+Street: 29 / 12 ( 6 ) 34 / 14 ( 5 ) 42 / 17 ( 4 ) 56 / 23 ( 3 ) 84 / 34 ( 2 ) 167 / 67 ( 1 )
DS+Quad: 29 / 17 ( 6 ) 34 / 20 ( 5 ) 42 / 24 ( 4 ) 56 / 32 ( 3 ) 84 / 48 ( 2 ) 167 / 96 ( 1 )
DZ: 57 ( 6 ) 68 ( 5 ) 84 ( 4 ) 112 ( 3 ) 168 ( 2 ) 334 ( 1 )
EC: 113 ( 6 ) 135 ( 5 ) 168 ( 4 ) 224 ( 3 ) 335 ( 2 ) 668 ( 1 )
DZ+DZ 113 / 113 ( 6 ) 135 / 135 ( 5 ) 168 / 168 ( 4 ) 224 / 224 ( 3 ) 335 / 335 ( 2 ) 668 / 668 ( 1 )

1-Split loss  680  10 : 664 / 2  18
1-Split loss  694  10 : 666 / 2  17
1-Split loss  708  10 : 668 / 2  17
1-Split loss  722  10 : 670 / 2  16
1-Split loss  737  10 : 672 / 2  16
1-Split loss  752  10 : 674 / 2  16
1-Split loss  767  10 : 676 / 2  15
1-Split WIN  382  11 : 678 / 1  25
1-Split loss  405  11 : 680 / 1  24
1-Split loss  429  11 : 682 / 1  24
1-Split loss  442  11 : 684 / 1  23
1-Split loss  455  11 : 686 / 1  23
1-Split loss  469  11 : 688 / 1  23
1-Split loss  483  11 : 690 / 1  22
1-Split loss  497  11 : 692 / 1  22
1-Split loss  512  11 : 694 / 1  22
1-Split loss  527  11 : 696 / 1  21
1-Split loss  543  11 : 698 / 1  21
1-Split loss  559  11 : 700 / 1  21
1-Split loss  575  11 : 702 / 1  20
1-Split loss  592  11 : 704 / 1  20
1-Split loss  609  11 : 706 / 1  19
1-Split loss  627  11 : 708 / 1  19
1-Split loss  645  11 : 710 / 1  18
1-Split loss  664  11 : 712 / 1  18
1-Split loss  683  11 : 714 / 1  17
1-Split loss  703  11 : 716 / 1  17
1-Split loss  723  11 : 718 / 1  16
1-Split loss  744  11 : 720 / 2  16
1-Split loss  755  11 : 722 / 2  16
1-Split loss  766  11 : 724 / 2  15
1-Split WIN  381  12 : 726 / 1  25
1-Split loss  404  12 : 728 / 1  24
1-Split loss  428  12 : 730 / 1  24
1-Split loss  441  12 : 732 / 1  23
1-Split loss  454  12 : 734 / 1  23
1-Split loss  467  12 : 736 / 1  23
1-Split loss  481  12 : 738 / 1  22
1-Split loss  495  12 : 740 / 1  22
1-Split loss  509  12 : 742 / 1  22
1-Split loss  524  12 : 744 / 1  21
1-Split loss  539  12 : 746 / 1  21
1-Split loss  555  12 : 748 / 1  21
1-Split loss  571  12 : 750 / 1  20
1-Split loss  588  12 : 752 / 1  20
1-Split loss  605  12 : 754 / 1  19
1-Split loss  623  12 : 756 / 1  19
1-Split WIN -1

Definitely on par with the worst session on record.  I will reduce the MBA to .015 .

How can I take the surfing concept to the next level?  Somehow Talos is running large numbers through the ratio that allows him to get hits and still preserve his balance and not go below a DS...

Anyway, too tired to think right now.  Need more sleep.  2 sessions away from doubling my bank a third time! :D

Ok, I figured out how we can fight the MBA even harder:

Down, Left 2

If that ends up being too harsh, then we implement 1/2 levels and go Left 1.5 .

10-DZ+DZ WIN  10  2 : 180 / 2  20
10-DZ+DZ loss  24  2 : 204 / 2  20
10-DZ+DZ WIN  14  3 : 228 / 1  20
9-EC loss  29  3 : 246 / 2  20
10-DZ+DZ loss  47  3 : 270 / 2  20

Split: 1 ( 6 ) 1 ( 5 ) 1 ( 4 ) 1 ( 3 ) 2 ( 2 ) 3 ( 1 )
Street: 1 ( 6 ) 1 ( 5 ) 2 ( 4 ) 2 ( 3 ) 3 ( 2 ) 5 ( 1 )
Quad: 2 ( 6 ) 2 ( 5 ) 2 ( 4 ) 3 ( 3 ) 4 ( 2 ) 7 ( 1 )
DS: 2 ( 6 ) 3 ( 5 ) 3 ( 4 ) 4 ( 3 ) 5 ( 2 ) 10 ( 1 )
DS+Split: 3 / 1 ( 6 ) 3 / 1 ( 5 ) 4 / 1 ( 4 ) 5 / 2 ( 3 ) 7 / 2 ( 2 ) 13 / 4 ( 1 )
DS+Street: 3 / 1 ( 6 ) 3 / 2 ( 5 ) 4 / 2 ( 4 ) 5 / 2 ( 3 ) 7 / 3 ( 2 ) 13 / 5 ( 1 )
DS+Quad: 3 / 2 ( 6 ) 3 / 2 ( 5 ) 4 / 2 ( 4 ) 5 / 3 ( 3 ) 7 / 4 ( 2 ) 13 / 7 ( 1 )
DZ: 5 ( 6 ) 6 ( 5 ) 7 ( 4 ) 9 ( 3 ) 13 ( 2 ) 25 ( 1 )
EC: 9 ( 6 ) 11 ( 5 ) 13 ( 4 ) 17 ( 3 ) 25 ( 2 ) 49 ( 1 )
DZ+DZ 9 / 9 ( 6 ) 11 / 11 ( 5 ) 13 / 13 ( 4 ) 17 / 17 ( 3 ) 25 / 25 ( 2 ) 49 / 49 ( 1 )

9-EC loss  64  3 : 288 / 2  20

Split: 1 ( 6 ) 1 ( 5 ) 2 ( 4 ) 2 ( 3 ) 2 ( 2 ) 4 ( 1 )
Street: 2 ( 6 ) 2 ( 5 ) 2 ( 4 ) 3 ( 3 ) 4 ( 2 ) 6 ( 1 )
Quad: 2 ( 6 ) 2 ( 5 ) 3 ( 4 ) 3 ( 3 ) 5 ( 2 ) 9 ( 1 )
DS: 3 ( 6 ) 3 ( 5 ) 4 ( 4 ) 5 ( 3 ) 7 ( 2 ) 14 ( 1 )
DS+Split: 3 / 1 ( 6 ) 4 / 1 ( 5 ) 5 / 2 ( 4 ) 6 / 2 ( 3 ) 9 / 3 ( 2 ) 17 / 5 ( 1 )
DS+Street: 3 / 2 ( 6 ) 4 / 2 ( 5 ) 5 / 2 ( 4 ) 6 / 3 ( 3 ) 9 / 4 ( 2 ) 17 / 7 ( 1 )
DS+Quad: 3 / 2 ( 6 ) 4 / 2 ( 5 ) 5 / 3 ( 4 ) 6 / 4 ( 3 ) 9 / 5 ( 2 ) 17 / 10 ( 1 )
DZ: 6 ( 6 ) 7 ( 5 ) 9 ( 4 ) 12 ( 3 ) 17 ( 2 ) 33 ( 1 )
EC: 12 ( 6 ) 14 ( 5 ) 18 ( 4 ) 23 ( 3 ) 34 ( 2 ) 66 ( 1 )
DZ+DZ 12 / 12 ( 6 ) 14 / 14 ( 5 ) 18 / 18 ( 4 ) 23 / 23 ( 3 ) 34 / 34 ( 2 ) 66 / 66 ( 1 )

9-EC loss  82  3 : 306 / 3  19
9-EC WIN  64  4 : 324 / 2  20
9-EC loss  82  4 : 342 / 2  19

Split: 1 ( 6 ) 2 ( 5 ) 2 ( 4 ) 2 ( 3 ) 3 ( 2 ) 5 ( 1 )
Street: 2 ( 6 ) 2 ( 5 ) 2 ( 4 ) 3 ( 3 ) 4 ( 2 ) 8 ( 1 )
Quad: 2 ( 6 ) 3 ( 5 ) 3 ( 4 ) 4 ( 3 ) 6 ( 2 ) 11 ( 1 )
DS: 3 ( 6 ) 4 ( 5 ) 5 ( 4 ) 6 ( 3 ) 9 ( 2 ) 17 ( 1 )
DS+Split: 4 / 1 ( 6 ) 5 / 2 ( 5 ) 6 / 2 ( 4 ) 8 / 2 ( 3 ) 11 / 3 ( 2 ) 21 / 6 ( 1 )
DS+Street: 4 / 2 ( 6 ) 5 / 2 ( 5 ) 6 / 3 ( 4 ) 8 / 3 ( 3 ) 11 / 5 ( 2 ) 21 / 9 ( 1 )
DS+Quad: 4 / 3 ( 6 ) 5 / 3 ( 5 ) 6 / 4 ( 4 ) 8 / 5 ( 3 ) 11 / 7 ( 2 ) 21 / 12 ( 1 )
DZ: 8 ( 6 ) 9 ( 5 ) 11 ( 4 ) 15 ( 3 ) 22 ( 2 ) 42 ( 1 )
EC: 15 ( 6 ) 18 ( 5 ) 22 ( 4 ) 29 ( 3 ) 43 ( 2 ) 84 ( 1 )
DZ+DZ 15 / 15 ( 6 ) 18 / 18 ( 5 ) 22 / 22 ( 4 ) 29 / 29 ( 3 ) 43 / 43 ( 2 ) 84 / 84 ( 1 )

8-DZ loss  97  4 : 353 / 2  19
8-DZ WIN  63  5 : 364 / 2  20

Split: 1 ( 6 ) 1 ( 5 ) 1 ( 4 ) 2 ( 3 ) 2 ( 2 ) 4 ( 1 )
Street: 2 ( 6 ) 2 ( 5 ) 2 ( 4 ) 3 ( 3 ) 3 ( 2 ) 6 ( 1 )
Quad: 2 ( 6 ) 2 ( 5 ) 3 ( 4 ) 3 ( 3 ) 5 ( 2 ) 9 ( 1 )
DS: 3 ( 6 ) 3 ( 5 ) 4 ( 4 ) 5 ( 3 ) 7 ( 2 ) 13 ( 1 )
DS+Split: 3 / 1 ( 6 ) 4 / 1 ( 5 ) 5 / 2 ( 4 ) 6 / 2 ( 3 ) 9 / 3 ( 2 ) 17 / 5 ( 1 )
DS+Street: 3 / 2 ( 6 ) 4 / 2 ( 5 ) 5 / 2 ( 4 ) 6 / 3 ( 3 ) 9 / 4 ( 2 ) 17 / 7 ( 1 )
DS+Quad: 3 / 2 ( 6 ) 4 / 2 ( 5 ) 5 / 3 ( 4 ) 6 / 4 ( 3 ) 9 / 5 ( 2 ) 17 / 10 ( 1 )
DZ: 6 ( 6 ) 7 ( 5 ) 9 ( 4 ) 12 ( 3 ) 17 ( 2 ) 33 ( 1 )
EC: 12 ( 6 ) 14 ( 5 ) 17 ( 4 ) 23 ( 3 ) 33 ( 2 ) 65 ( 1 )
DZ+DZ 12 / 12 ( 6 ) 14 / 14 ( 5 ) 17 / 17 ( 4 ) 23 / 23 ( 3 ) 33 / 33 ( 2 ) 65 / 65 ( 1 )

9-EC loss  80  5 : 382 / 2  19

Split: 1 ( 6 ) 2 ( 5 ) 2 ( 4 ) 2 ( 3 ) 3 ( 2 ) 5 ( 1 )
Street: 2 ( 6 ) 2 ( 5 ) 2 ( 4 ) 3 ( 3 ) 4 ( 2 ) 8 ( 1 )
Quad: 2 ( 6 ) 3 ( 5 ) 3 ( 4 ) 4 ( 3 ) 6 ( 2 ) 11 ( 1 )
DS: 3 ( 6 ) 4 ( 5 ) 5 ( 4 ) 6 ( 3 ) 9 ( 2 ) 17 ( 1 )
DS+Split: 4 / 1 ( 6 ) 5 / 2 ( 5 ) 6 / 2 ( 4 ) 7 / 2 ( 3 ) 11 / 3 ( 2 ) 21 / 6 ( 1 )
DS+Street: 4 / 2 ( 6 ) 5 / 2 ( 5 ) 6 / 3 ( 4 ) 7 / 3 ( 3 ) 11 / 5 ( 2 ) 21 / 9 ( 1 )
DS+Quad: 4 / 3 ( 6 ) 5 / 3 ( 5 ) 6 / 4 ( 4 ) 7 / 4 ( 3 ) 11 / 6 ( 2 ) 21 / 12 ( 1 )
DZ: 8 ( 6 ) 9 ( 5 ) 11 ( 4 ) 14 ( 3 ) 21 ( 2 ) 41 ( 1 )
EC: 15 ( 6 ) 18 ( 5 ) 22 ( 4 ) 28 ( 3 ) 42 ( 2 ) 82 ( 1 )
DZ+DZ 15 / 15 ( 6 ) 18 / 18 ( 5 ) 22 / 22 ( 4 ) 28 / 28 ( 3 ) 42 / 42 ( 2 ) 82 / 82 ( 1 )

8-DZ loss  94  5 : 393 / 2  19
8-DZ WIN  60  6 : 404 / 1  20 <=== huge
5-DS+Split loss  80  6 : 412 / 1  19 <=== gap
4-DS loss  97  6 : 418 / 1  19
3-Quad loss  110  6 : 422 / 2  19

Split: 2 ( 6 ) 2 ( 5 ) 2 ( 4 ) 3 ( 3 ) 4 ( 2 ) 7 ( 1 )
Street: 2 ( 6 ) 3 ( 5 ) 3 ( 4 ) 4 ( 3 ) 6 ( 2 ) 11 ( 1 )
Quad: 3 ( 6 ) 3 ( 5 ) 4 ( 4 ) 5 ( 3 ) 8 ( 2 ) 14 ( 1 )
DS: 4 ( 6 ) 5 ( 5 ) 6 ( 4 ) 8 ( 3 ) 12 ( 2 ) 23 ( 1 )
DS+Split: 5 / 2 ( 6 ) 6 / 2 ( 5 ) 8 / 2 ( 4 ) 10 / 3 ( 3 ) 15 / 4 ( 2 ) 28 / 7 ( 1 )
DS+Street: 5 / 2 ( 6 ) 6 / 3 ( 5 ) 8 / 3 ( 4 ) 10 / 4 ( 3 ) 15 / 6 ( 2 ) 28 / 12 ( 1 )
DS+Quad: 5 / 3 ( 6 ) 6 / 4 ( 5 ) 8 / 5 ( 4 ) 10 / 6 ( 3 ) 15 / 9 ( 2 ) 28 / 16 ( 1 )
DZ: 10 ( 6 ) 12 ( 5 ) 15 ( 4 ) 19 ( 3 ) 29 ( 2 ) 56 ( 1 )
EC: 20 ( 6 ) 24 ( 5 ) 29 ( 4 ) 38 ( 3 ) 57 ( 2 ) 112 ( 1 )
DZ+DZ 20 / 20 ( 6 ) 24 / 24 ( 5 ) 29 / 29 ( 4 ) 38 / 38 ( 3 ) 57 / 57 ( 2 ) 112 / 112 ( 1 )

8-DZ WIN  72  7 : 433 / 1  19 <=== huge
4-DS loss  87  7 : 439 / 1  19 <=== gap
4-DS loss  105  7 : 445 / 1  19
3-Quad loss  119  7 : 449 / 1  19

Ok so it looks like a full 2 places to the left is too harsh because we immediately are jumping too far down the list to afford to end the session (not enough profit being generated in the previous coup).

I will implement 1.5 Left and if that isn't enough, I will raise the MBA by .5 .

10-DZ+DZ loss  29  1 : 108 / 1  27
8-DZ loss  45  1 : 119 / 1  27
8-DZ loss  69  1 : 130 / 2  26

Split: 1 ( 6 ) 1 ( 5 ) 2 ( 4 ) 2 ( 3 ) 3 ( 2 ) 5 ( 1 )
Street: 2 ( 6 ) 2 ( 5 ) 2 ( 4 ) 3 ( 3 ) 4 ( 2 ) 7 ( 1 )
Quad: 2 ( 6 ) 2 ( 5 ) 3 ( 4 ) 4 ( 3 ) 5 ( 2 ) 9 ( 1 )
DS: 3 ( 6 ) 3 ( 5 ) 4 ( 4 ) 5 ( 3 ) 8 ( 2 ) 15 ( 1 )
DS+Split: 4 / 1 ( 6 ) 4 / 1 ( 5 ) 5 / 2 ( 4 ) 7 / 2 ( 3 ) 9 / 3 ( 2 ) 18 / 5 ( 1 )
DS+Street: 4 / 2 ( 6 ) 4 / 2 ( 5 ) 5 / 2 ( 4 ) 7 / 3 ( 3 ) 9 / 4 ( 2 ) 18 / 8 ( 1 )
DS+Quad: 4 / 2 ( 6 ) 4 / 3 ( 5 ) 5 / 3 ( 4 ) 7 / 4 ( 3 ) 9 / 6 ( 2 ) 18 / 11 ( 1 )
DZ: 7 ( 6 ) 8 ( 5 ) 10 ( 4 ) 13 ( 3 ) 18 ( 2 ) 36 ( 1 )
EC: 13 ( 6 ) 15 ( 5 ) 19 ( 4 ) 25 ( 3 ) 36 ( 2 ) 71 ( 1 )
DZ+DZ 13 / 13 ( 6 ) 15 / 15 ( 5 ) 19 / 19 ( 4 ) 25 / 25 ( 3 ) 36 / 36 ( 2 ) 71 / 71 ( 1 )

9-EC loss  94  1 : 148 / 2  26
8-DZ WIN  94  2 : 159 / 1  26
8-DZ loss  140  1 : 170 / 2  25
8-DZ loss  164  1 : 181 / 3  24
8-DZ WIN  120  2 : 192 / 2  25
8-DZ WIN  78  3 : 203 / 1  26
5-DS+Split loss  103  3 : 211 / 1  25 <=== Follow the MBA ratio 1
4-DS loss  124  3 : 217 / 1  25 <===
3-Quad loss  140  3 : 221 / 1  25 <===
3-Quad loss  158  3 : 225 / 1  24 <===
3-Quad loss  178  3 : 229 / 1  24 <===
3-Quad loss  201  3 : 233 / 1  23 <===
2-Street loss  220  3 : 236 / 1  23 <===
2-Street loss  241  3 : 239 / 1  23 <===
2-Street loss  264  3 : 242 / 2  22 <=== last ditch effort for profit

Split: 3 ( 6 ) 4 ( 5 ) 4 ( 4 ) 6 ( 3 ) 8 ( 2 ) 16 ( 1 )
Street: 5 ( 6 ) 5 ( 5 ) 7 ( 4 ) 9 ( 3 ) 13 ( 2 ) 25 ( 1 )
Quad: 6 ( 6 ) 7 ( 5 ) 9 ( 4 ) 12 ( 3 ) 17 ( 2 ) 34 ( 1 )
DS: 10 ( 6 ) 11 ( 5 ) 14 ( 4 ) 18 ( 3 ) 27 ( 2 ) 54 ( 1 )
DS+Split: 12 / 3 ( 6 ) 14 / 4 ( 5 ) 17 / 5 ( 4 ) 23 / 6 ( 3 ) 34 / 9 ( 2 ) 67 / 17 ( 1 )
DS+Street: 12 / 5 ( 6 ) 14 / 6 ( 5 ) 17 / 7 ( 4 ) 23 / 9 ( 3 ) 34 / 14 ( 2 ) 67 / 27 ( 1 )
DS+Quad: 12 / 7 ( 6 ) 14 / 8 ( 5 ) 17 / 10 ( 4 ) 23 / 13 ( 3 ) 34 / 20 ( 2 ) 67 / 38 ( 1 )
DZ: 23 ( 6 ) 27 ( 5 ) 34 ( 4 ) 45 ( 3 ) 67 ( 2 ) 133 ( 1 )
EC: 46 ( 6 ) 54 ( 5 ) 68 ( 4 ) 90 ( 3 ) 134 ( 2 ) 266 ( 1 )
DZ+DZ 46 / 46 ( 6 ) 54 / 54 ( 5 ) 68 / 68 ( 4 ) 90 / 90 ( 3 ) 134 / 134 ( 2 ) 266 / 266 ( 1 )

4-DS loss  282  3 : 248 / 2  22
4-DS loss  302  3 : 254 / 2  21
4-DS loss  323  3 : 260 / 2  21
3-Quad loss  344  3 : 264 / 2  21

Split: 4 ( 6 ) 5 ( 5 ) 6 ( 4 ) 7 ( 3 ) 11 ( 2 ) 21 ( 1 )
Street: 6 ( 6 ) 7 ( 5 ) 8 ( 4 ) 11 ( 3 ) 16 ( 2 ) 32 ( 1 )
Quad: 8 ( 6 ) 9 ( 5 ) 11 ( 4 ) 15 ( 3 ) 22 ( 2 ) 44 ( 1 )
DS: 12 ( 6 ) 14 ( 5 ) 18 ( 4 ) 24 ( 3 ) 35 ( 2 ) 70 ( 1 )
DS+Split: 15 / 4 ( 6 ) 18 / 5 ( 5 ) 22 / 6 ( 4 ) 29 / 8 ( 3 ) 44 / 11 ( 2 ) 87 / 22 ( 1 )
DS+Street: 15 / 6 ( 6 ) 18 / 7 ( 5 ) 22 / 9 ( 4 ) 29 / 12 ( 3 ) 44 / 18 ( 2 ) 87 / 35 ( 1 )
DS+Quad: 15 / 9 ( 6 ) 18 / 10 ( 5 ) 22 / 13 ( 4 ) 29 / 17 ( 3 ) 44 / 25 ( 2 ) 87 / 50 ( 1 )
DZ: 30 ( 6 ) 35 ( 5 ) 44 ( 4 ) 58 ( 3 ) 87 ( 2 ) 173 ( 1 )
EC: 59 ( 6 ) 70 ( 5 ) 88 ( 4 ) 116 ( 3 ) 174 ( 2 ) 346 ( 1 )
DZ+DZ 59 / 59 ( 6 ) 70 / 70 ( 5 ) 88 / 88 ( 4 ) 116 / 116 ( 3 ) 174 / 174 ( 2 ) 346 / 346 ( 1 )

3-Quad loss  359  3 : 268 / 2  20 <=== surfing for moar powa!
3-Quad WIN  231  4 : 272 / 1  23
2-Street WIN -1 <=== follow the MBA ratio 1

Raising MBA to .0225 as I found it too restrictive in this last game; I may need to raise it again, especially because we have implemented Down, Left 1.5 .
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: jekhb76 on March 08, 2017, 11:06:08 AM
First i would like to say, that i'm very impressed with all the hard work that is done by so many fine people here on this board, trying to solve the riddle of the Holy Grail presented by Dr.Talos.

That bein' sad, i don't understand why people go on forums and present themselves as having the Holy Grail to roulette. Well they talk about it, and give us clues, but they all say, sorry i wouldn't share it with you fine folks !!!!
Because i worked on it for so many years etc etc etc.
If I would have a system that guarantees me a profit of at least \$100 a day, I would be more then happy to share my system! regardless if it took me 10 years of making and \$10.000 before i could make it work all the time.
I feel that there is no reason not to share. What will you gain out of it? Nothing! Would you make other people happy? You sure do! Would it prevent it for making you \$100 dollar a day? No I don't think so.
Would there be no more casinos in the world because of this? No I don't think so. this of the simple fact that there are thousands of casinos world wide that are making money of people who don't have a system, don't have the time or the patients to play a system. Would a casino through me out if i would make \$100 a day all year long? I don't think so, because they make too much of people that play roulette and other games at their casino to worry about a guy who wins \$100 dollar a day. I wish I had a system like that, and that i could make 100 dollar a day, that's \$2800 dollar a month. i wouldn't have to work anymore, but spend more quality time with my sick wife and 6 kids.

I personally can't say that the Holy Grail doesn't exist or that it does. So I can't call Mr. Talos a lair, just of the simple fact that I don't know.

Do I believe in the possibility that one does exist? Yes I do. Because of the simple calculation that there were so many events in the real world, that everybody thought that it wasn't possible.
That you and me didn't see it, doesn't mean it isn't out there.

Do I believe that some people got rich because of this? Yes I Do. It all depends on what you believe.
If I would have could go back in time and was guy somewhere in the 17e Century, and said at the market that 469 years, there are some folks walking on the Moon! they would have burned me right on the spot. It all depends on Believe. When a lock is closed, it only needs the right key to unlock it.

WHEN I FIND A SYSTEM THAT REALLY WORKS EVERY TIME IN THE LONG RUN, THIS WILL BE THE PLACE WHERE I WILL PRESENT IT.

I make other people happy, i can have a good living with my family. And then at the end of the day I'm happy to, because i did the right thing......

No let's stop chasing Mr. Talos and do our own thing. enjoy roulette and most importantly, enjoy Life!
Remember, It's short. - Eddy
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: juice on March 08, 2017, 12:30:22 PM
Eddy,  Talos is making a lot more than \$100 a day.  He's probably making \$100 an hour or more. But I get your point.  Not taking anything away from Reyths effort, but if you want a great method, and easy, and scalable, go the palestis single dozen method. It will make your efforts payout a lot easier. I would say even easier than you own 4 wonders method. And with the site you visited that you thanked me for, to sample data, you can do some quick easy manual testing, unless you are a computer guy, then you can test your own way. Good luck,   Juice
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: jekhb76 on March 08, 2017, 01:27:30 PM
Thanks Juice!

Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: Rinad on March 08, 2017, 03:05:31 PM

Eddy,

I anderstand your point about those who dont share much. you seem to be a man with a great heart and I like that.
some method are easy to post but the implimentation of it is not. that is why until I know the best way to do that, I know that it wont do any good to anyone to post certain methods.
think of it this way. it is not always a secret reciepe that is the HG, but the way to apply it so it works.

I know people want a magic stick that brings home the bacon and I am not pointing fingers because there are those who put in the time and mind at work, but what if I was to tell you that many, including yourself, have allready a winning system.

could it be possible that some abandon a method because it gets boring after a while, that chassing a new high wrapped around a HG idea just sound so good, that they go on for years jumping from one system to another, because it is more thrilling then making one work?

I have that bug too, often, and my mind is magnetized to a "new system", it feels good to have "hope", but as the good book says, "man shall not walk hope but by faith" (I changed it a little).

I am telling you, you have allready a winning system. learn how to make it work, and dont listen to the ones who tell you math is everything in the game, because it is not.

many pros only know a basic play. "bet high when you win, bet low or stop when you lose", and make a ton of money.
the discipline is where it is out. even if Talos was to discribe his HG, as soon as people would find it hard to apply or have a losing session, or get bored with it, they would stop playing it. that is the honest truth.

the hardest thing to do for a player is this;
sticking to a method or a system of play and make it work until you feel so confident in it, that you no longer chase after anything else, or just on a very fun,small  scale.THAT IS THE HARDEST THING TO DO.

kind of like changing girl friend often, and never stay commited to one good women.

dont get frustrated with those who dont always want to share. it is not always a easy thing to explain.

God bless,
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: jekhb76 on March 08, 2017, 03:32:48 PM
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: juice on March 08, 2017, 04:32:56 PM
Rinad, nice post! but I will disagree on one thing that you mentioned....
Eddy's bet revolves completely around math. law of the thirds. I am not following his actual play, because after a couple of days posts, I find it too time consuming the way he has it laid out. I am delighted that it works for him because it is his grail and he should stick to it as you said. For me, I can only say that there are stronger triggers before the ones he uses, but again, as you stated, it would be hard to put it into a post, and quite frankly, I am not interested in having anyone here analyze my method of change. I would share it privately in a pm, but, and again as you stated he should stick to what works and perfect it for himself, and then if he would like to share it, have at it!
If this ends up being the case, he should be prepared to be beaten over the head with his good intentions, by many of people that want to just wave the magic stick, as well as from the people that  are looking for the hook, remember, NO GOOD DEED GOES UNPUNISHED........As for the Talos riddle, Reyth will eventually get there, but I think if he does, it will show you that he was smart enough to have never needed it in the first place~  juice
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: jekhb76 on March 08, 2017, 04:42:18 PM
thanks Juice for you honest opinion.
i'm here on this forum to learn, in some way or another. luckly there are many people on this forum who will help you learn, some will do it the easy way and some the hard way. but in both ways i will learn. I post systems that i like, and that is working for me (for now) but if it doesn't work for another and he or she spits on me or on the system, well so be it. But the most who coment are the ones who want to help to get the system better.
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: Reyth on March 08, 2017, 04:43:40 PM
I have done it!  DOUBLED MY BANK THREE TIMES IN A ROW!

This is the first time I have done this with any system in now 3 years of playing roulette!

Attached is the output file with about 2.5 of the full 3 doubling of my bank; I started recording the output early on in the first doubling attempt.

The following sequences will NOT be part of the output:

1) Anything that wins in the first 3 bets
2) Anything that wins on the first step after the Core Progression
2a) EXCEPTION: If the first hit in the Core Progression was on the 3rd bet or below, all subsequent bets to that first hit WILL be included in the output

In other words, only actual recovery sessions will be part of the output.

My bankroll now stands at 4205 units profit; 1 coup at a time, scrapping all losses back to at least +1.  Notice these are not betting events, these are successful coups -- very many more betting events have been logged.

This is a massive testimony of the power of the Talos philosophy for preservation of the bankroll:

I will point out once again the most important question of them all, and is the most important because if you solve this dilemma you will have the key to the system: How can I keep the balance low so to wait till the numbers come in my favor?

Normally, as many many times in the past, when the worst session hits, my bankroll should be wiped out handily -- THIS DID NOT HAPPEN!

Instead, I just kept spinning as the debt grew slowly upward and the hits just came in to save me:

Quote from: Dr. Talos
CANON 52
The average hit/number played is what I rely upon. 1/60 can be seen not enough, in a short term, but I play a lot of numbers for a lot of spins, so sooner or later I will get it, because "mathematically" the average will tend to be 1/38, am I wrong?

There were two EXTREME knock down dragout sesssions in 4205 successful coup attempts and a third that almost became extreme.  This is where improvement is needed.

Can there be worse sessions yet?  Yes, the real question is how often are we likely to even see them?

Its true, my system is not the Talos system, its only based on its principles and I guarantee you my system is vulnerable where his simply isn't but I am willing to accept a system that will once in a great while have a blow out loss of 1400 units after many sessions winning 1400 over and over.
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: jekhb76 on March 08, 2017, 04:52:29 PM
Good job Reyth !
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: Jake007 on March 08, 2017, 05:22:37 PM

I meant to say !

Im only on page 13 so far.... holy cow, very interesting. I'll add when I catch up!
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: Sheridan44 on March 08, 2017, 05:56:31 PM
Should I find a method that was profitable, I personally would have no problems sharing it.

It would not bring the casinos down to their knees... at most - they would simply just develop new countermeasures.

I am reminded of Thorp's revolutionary super blackjack card counting system from years past....which has been proven to give its user an edge. The casino's still offer blackjack...none were closed down...no one was laid off because of it. They just adjusted to it (multiple deck shoes and constant reshuffling) and moved on. And some casino's still offer single deck games.

The art of playing such a system would be stealth....not playing at one table/casino too long. You would be among many other players playing haphazardly with no system at all (the casino's bread and butter).
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: Geoffrey on March 08, 2017, 07:07:34 PM
the whole idea of a forum is about sharing ideas and knowledge, learn from each other.

Who's not willing to share, doesn't have his place in a forum. simply because in contradicts the meaning of participating in a forum.

no pun intendid, just my 2 cents
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: Reyth on March 08, 2017, 10:13:37 PM
Well, I for one, am very appreciative for Dr. Talos' contributions.  I feel that he truly has taught me a new gambling skill.  I feel as though I have learned how to bet properly; a hidden secret of betting, if you will.

I am using Sputnik's posted money management method found here:

https://forum.roulette30.com/index.php?topic=919.msg13459#msg13459 (https://forum.roulette30.com/index.php?topic=919.msg13459#msg13459)

10 sessions a day for 70 units each, turning 1,400 units into 73,500 units in a month.

Week #1: 4900 units <=== 3520 Day 5
Week #2: 9800 units
Week #3: 19600 units
Week #4: 39200 units
......Total: 73500 units

I will keep you all updated on my progress.

Had another session from heck but once again, the numbers came in to save me.  I don't think any of us appreciate the felt-wide power of the 1:60 ratio.  Anyway, increasing the MBA back to .03 since we have implemented Down, Left 1.5.

Ok, I finally dropped a table bank and went down 2835 units (1400*2 for Week 2) which brings my profit balance down to 3274 (from 6109) which is still over 2 times my initial table bank.  However, it does cause me to return to Week 1, Day 4.  I have marked this session as "###" in the record, for future reference.

Wow, dropped a second table bank before I could recover the first one!  :'(  Well, this brings my profit down to 2748 (from 4140) which is one session under 2 times the table bank and will put me at the end of day three.  At this point the system may be hanging on the edge of obsoletion but there is no way to be sure because it is still possible that this is a statitsical anomaly or limited statistical event.  It is obvious now though that at least 3-4 table banks are required to be secure.

To address this more frequent drawdown than initially expected, I have implemented the Turtle Bet MethodTM where we min bet (6 ratio) after every loss and normal win and we only bet normally if we have a Turtle Bet win or the ratio is 1; this also includes never betting below a DS.

I believe this Turtle betting (also called Occam's Turtle) relates to the Talos "extraordinary" method for keeping the bet amounts low and more about this can be found here:

https://forum.roulette30.com/index.php?topic=1252.msg20551#msg20551
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: Geoffrey on March 08, 2017, 10:25:04 PM
i'm not suprised you appreciate mr talos' approach reyth. you like everything that is posted around here (ok with a bit of exaggeration ) :P
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: BlueAngel on March 09, 2017, 03:16:21 AM
Congratulations Reyth for losing your ''virginity'' after 3 years, better later than never.
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: Reyth on March 09, 2017, 08:07:09 PM
Ok, since I know that my system is not optimized according to what Talos has accomplished, I am also still in the background searching for the way to make my bets even lower.

This brings up a concept that both Jerome and I have mentioned but I don't think we have looked at seriously yet:

Let's say that once the bets rise to a certain percentage of the bankroll and the ratio is 2, we will use a load shedding procedure to lower the bets until the ratio increases by 1.  This is to prevent us from having to bet too high when the ratio becomes 1 and calls for us to end the session.

The Shedding would occur by betting the DS instead of the larger sized (but more expensive) bet selection that is normally called for by the HNB & the debt.

The only way this works is if it can be proven that it is less expensive to bet the DS X # times until the ratio increases than it would be to simply bet the larger selection (which adds numbers to the HNB more rapidly).

A possible downside is that we are making it less likely to get a hit as well which could cause statistical issues in our sessions.

Upon further thought, I have just realized that this is the opposite of the surfing technique.  When we surf, we perform a "Coup Deferment to borrow a bet selection increase" but if we do Load Shedding we are "paying back the Coup Deferment loan with a smaller bet selection" both methods seek a "middle ground balance" between the extremes of lowering the bet selection too fast (Coup Deferment) and increasing the bet amount too fast (Load Shedding).

I think this will require a new indicator which I might name LSM (Load Shedding Modifier) which will simply be a percentage of the MBA, where if the ratio is 2 and the bet called for is greater than MBA*LSI, then Load Shedding will occur instead of placing the regular bet.

Well, thinking about this some more and in greater detail, I realize that the real reason Load Shedding is to be performed is to prevent the MBA from calling for a bet selection that is lower than a DS and therefore a modifier is not necessary but instead a formula which would be something like:

IF ((debt+[expected win amount])*MBA)/6>=1 THEN Perform Load Shedding

Which is basically saying:

"if the debt after the current bet (being modified by the MBA) cannot be eclipsed by betting a DS, then bet a DS now instead of the current bet"

Without attemping to think beyond a surface analysis, the only way this should fail is if the profit earned from betting a DS will not be enough to raise the bet selection above a DS.  If this happens, we will end up betting a DS for profit (ratio 1) until the ratio becomes 2, at which time the formula will be repeated.

It is the times when the ratio is 1 and the MBA will not allow a DS bet and instead call for a Quad bet or even below that is a very dangerous situation...

The reason this sliding slope with a 1 ratio occurs is because the HNB is demanding an end to the session even though there have been several missed bets.

Maybe at this point Talos would try to teach us not to let the MBA dictate anymore and to "hold our ground" on the DS for as long as it takes for the ratio to change (no more than 10 bets)?
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: DrTalos on March 10, 2017, 01:58:42 AM
Today I made a long session (5 hours, more or less), and here my statistics. I don't know if can help you, but I guess they can, if you Reyth look at them seriously.

261 spins
132 units won
112 games (so, as you can see, the average game is from 2 to 3 spins long)
71 games ended at the first spin
18 games ended at the second spin
5 games ended at the third spin
9 games ended at the fourth spin (takes this last two datas with precautions, usually they are the other way around)
9 games were over the fifth spins
31 spins has been the longest session
53 units maximum exposition at the longest session
5 units won in the longest session.

I think this answers to some other questions left unanswered by me some time ago.
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: Rinad on March 10, 2017, 02:30:30 AM

Dr Talos,

are you playing regular roulette table since you played 231 spins in 4/5 hours ?

I thought you had mentioned you only play air ball mostly since it is so much faster. looks like another good day.
half of a unit won per spin is great. good job.
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: Reyth on March 10, 2017, 12:37:05 PM
Quote from: Dr. Talos
31 spins has been the longest session
53 units maximum exposition at the longest session

See its statements like these that show me how Talos has taken things to the next level.

By way of comparison, my performance:

22 spins and maximum exposure  279.

This is also difference is also indicated by another Canon, so I already knew about it.  At least we can see he is consistent. :)
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: DrTalos on March 10, 2017, 12:43:43 PM
Well, not all days are the same.
I play airball machines, and on average they do 50 spins an hour.

Last week I had a different day, here the stats.

253 spins
96 units won
68 games of which
35 ended at first spin
16 at the second
1 at the third
4 at fourth

5 games over fifth, and three long games, who lasted

46 spins and maximum exposition at 121 for a winning of 11 units
45 spins and maximum exposition at 171 for a winning of 11 units
40 spins and maximum exposition at 103 for a winning of 9 units

wasn't the worst I had, but was very unusual to have three long sessions in the same day
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: Reyth on March 10, 2017, 01:28:48 PM
Wow.  Extremely impressive!

Yes, since we know that we have discovered his Core Progression, I will agree that it is quite rare to have more than two substantial attacks (longer games) in a single session.  It is less rare to have none and common to have one and sometimes there may be two.

I don't know if this also holds true for Talos but I am finding about 1 "worst" session for every 20 sessions, where 20 sessions doubles the bankroll.

But what he is doing in the longer sessions, I don't even!  I mean my proverbial butt is hanging out in the wind while he is sitting back and sipping pina coladas!

Based on his numbers, I can see why he has such great confidence in not losing.  From the sessions I have played (5000+ successful coups), it appears as though it would be practically impossible for him to lose!

In other words, he clearly has a TRUE HG, not just a winning system.
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: juice on March 10, 2017, 01:49:30 PM
Dr talos, what unit size are you using now?
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: DrTalos on March 10, 2017, 02:26:17 PM
I am actually using a 5\$ units, and cannot do more. It is easy find airball with a small units value (I started with 0.25\$ in Atlantic City) but I couldn't find something bigger than a 1\$, than means the the maximum amount playable in, for example, a street is 20\$.
As you can easily understand, can happen that I have to play a huge amount in some situations, so I cannot start with a 10\$ value because I will cross the limits quite soon, making impossible my system to be played.

This been said, you can understand that I can make roughly 1000\$ a day, "working" 8 hours a day, in an airball machine. Not enough to get rich unless I change something (live table with high limits or casinos online, with 200 spins an hour) but I don't trust neither of them.
I did open a small company with my gains, for Visa purposes and some other considerations, and I use to go to casinos 2/3 times a week. Usually twice a year a spent a week in AC or Vegas, for immersive play.

Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: Reyth on March 10, 2017, 02:34:21 PM
It would be amazing for you if you could find certain online casinos that you could trust.  I know someone that is doing this with a winning system and he has around 20 online accounts at different casinos because the trip to a legal B&M casino is several hours and so he goes once in awhile for fun.

On your "not rich" earnings, I think its possible to find a "real world" financial advisor to change that up for you.  Sounds like you kinda did since you opened up a business.  For instance, rental properties sound pretty nice; you start stacking those puppies and the cash rolling in pretty much ends the concept of ever working again.

But based on your character displayed here, I suspect you have already thought about these things deeply.
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: juice on March 10, 2017, 04:05:14 PM
Well then, would it be possible for you to play both sides of your stratagy? Perhaps not always, but by doing so you could pick up an extra 10 units an hour? As you mentioned in the past, your method is not complicated, for you at least, at this point in your game, I guess what I am asking is have you ever considered it?
Not to take anything away from your amazing effort, but if your going to grind, might as well "put some stank on it".
If you are winning all the time, you should be able to easily control a hedge, maybe even at a smaller unit amount....
With a hit rate such as yours they should both be fruitful.
I BELIEVE, that regardless of the stratagy we all use, that the most important LESSON, that this thread has expressed, and is overlooked, is that TO WIN YOU MUST PUT THE TIME IN AND FIGHT THE BOREDUM! THIS IS AN ESSENTIAL INGREDIENT~.             Be well good DR. ,    juice
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: Reyth on March 10, 2017, 04:09:23 PM
Ya its funny because I was just thinking that this is a "numbers game"; we grind numbers through the ratio to win and like Talos says, "sometimes it can be a long process" but his "long process" is usually 1/2 of mine!!

The reason we have to grind is because like he says, "if your system pays you more than the nominal chip, sooner or later it will turn you upside down" and "if you win big, you will lose big".

I really enjoy the concept of 100% recovery even if it is only 1 unit!
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: DrTalos on March 10, 2017, 04:51:48 PM
Reyth, sometimes I am down of just two units, and I force myself to get a profit every game, so I keep playing. And, sometimes, to get back those two units I stay at the table 20/30 more minutes to be in profit of 1 or 5 or more.
If you consider that I could call it a loss of two and because it is so common that the game end at the first shot (with a +1 profit), in the next two spins I would have been even without putting much chips on the table, at a better margin in the same amount of time overall.

Juice, I already play the system "double", when I can. For doing that I need paper and pen, because I cannot keep mentally calculation on both sides (and that why I can make 200 units profit in five hours of play...)
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: Reyth on March 10, 2017, 05:30:46 PM
If you consider that I could call it a loss of two and because it is so common that the game end at the first shot (with a +1 profit), in the next two spins I would have been even without putting much chips on the table, at a better margin in the same amount of time overall.

Very interesting point!  Or should I say hint!?

I sometimes find myself with a ratio of 2 splitting a debt that I can easily afford in a single bet but so far I haven't seen it as bad as 2 units left!

Hmmm.... This makes me think of following the "Core Progression model" where there is a small bet until a win is obtained, followed by a large bet (i.e. each bet is placed with a 6 divisor and then the normal ratio is used for the subsequent bet).  What if we were to do this all the time but with the bet selection instead of the raise amounts?

So it would be like the "Turtle Method" where we start off "in the shell" at the minimum bet and then come out of the shell for the bet at the normal amount?  We would just keep doing this repeatedly?

I mean somehow he is DRASTICALLY reducing his bet amounts (like by 4 times what I am betting) and yet closing games very rapidly.
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: jerome26b on March 10, 2017, 07:08:33 PM
I'm very impressed about the last posts Mrtalos i've to admit it's probably the last piesce i needed to discard some options and maybe solve the equation and the more valuable clues for a long time. your statistics are quite close from the one i got in fact. The big difference is the fact i'm never winning at the fourth spin on my system so now it's becoming clear about the option i was thinking about lately. For the other it's funny cause i finish either with 1,5 and 9 units profit as well (i think i have 7 as well but not completely sure). and yes by your statistics you answered now some questions i got that i get no answer yet. i still believe the trick is to find your revolutionary idea but by the way there's some ideas to work on now.
your revolutionary idea is about your progression or the idea came before the progression ? what i mean is the fact you said the progression is the real HG so if you don't do 'betting selection' what's up at the end except the progression ? the magical relation of numbers to play every spin probably or the MBA as Reyth is naming it ?
i know that it's your betting scheme at the start of the 3rd bet that is important and the starting point to your HG.

jerome.
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: DrTalos on March 10, 2017, 07:27:17 PM
Sometimes, Jerome, the answer is just inside the question.
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: Reyth on March 10, 2017, 07:34:21 PM
what i mean is the fact you said the progression is the real HG so if you don't do 'betting selection' what's up at the end except the progression ? the magical relation of numbers to play every spin probably or the MBA as Reyth is naming it ?

The MBA = max bet allowed.  Its the HNB (Hits:Numbers Bet) ratio that determines the progression (for me) but the problem with that ratio is that it will spiral our bets out of control when we hit the worst variance.  The MBA will limit a maximum bet where once we hit that amount we MUST reduce the bet selection in order to afford to bet.

Bet selection is KEY to Talos' system; what he means when he says bet selection doesn't matter is that SPECIFIC NUMBERS don't matter, ALL NUMBERS will win within the 1:60 ratio.

Without bet selection his method will fail like every other method because its the PR (payout ratio) that he is taking advantage of to drastically reduce his bets.

But he is doing more than just that and its probably this Turtle Method or something like it where it models the Core Progression; haven't you wondered why he starts out with a 6 divisor when the ratio is actually much lower?

Like 0:84 the ratio here is 2 with a debt of 15 units which means we should bet to win 7 or 8 units but instead he only bets to win 3?

So like the Turtle Method where we MIN BET (WIN)-REGULAR BET (LOSE)-MIN BET (LOSE)-MIN BET (WIN)-REGULAR BET (WIN) that would drastically cut our costs during loss streaks?

This would be his version of Ratio Surfing because he would be deferring the bet amounts until later in the series to minimize his exposure in case of a loss streak?
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: jerome26b on March 10, 2017, 07:49:12 PM
i see more his betting selection as a pattern scheme but not anything else. and of course cause he's not playing straight numbers he needs a kind of patterns to play his systems with the groups he's selecting but they probably can be random every spin like he always stated. the trick is not there and i have ideas there and there about what i was wondering last weeks.
i'm quite impressed as well about the long recovery games but they are in phase with some simulations i made. of course mine is busting sometimes and the talos one never so there's still a big missing part 😅

jerome.
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: jerome26b on March 10, 2017, 07:55:33 PM
what i mean is the fact you said the progression is the real HG so if you don't do 'betting selection' what's up at the end except the progression ? the magical relation of numbers to play every spin probably or the MBA as Reyth is naming it ?

The MBA = max bet allowed.  Its the HNB (Hits:Numbers Bet) ratio that determines the progression (for me) but the problem with that ratio is that it will spiral our bets out of control when we hit the worst variance.  The MBA will limit a maximum bet where once we hit that amount we MUST reduce the bet selection in order to afford to bet.

Bet selection is KEY to Talos' system; what he means when he says bet selection doesn't matter is that SPECIFIC NUMBERS don't matter, ALL NUMBERS will win within the 1:60 ratio.

Without bet selection his method will fail like every other method because its the PR (payout ratio) that he is taking advantage of to drastically reduce his bets.

But he is doing more than just that and its probably this Turtle Method or something like it where it models the Core Progression; haven't you wondered why he starts out with a 6 divisor when the ratio is actually much lower?

Like 0:84 the ratio here is 2 with a debt of 15 units which means we should bet to win 7 or 8 units but instead he only bets to win 3?

So like the Turtle Method where we MIN BET-REGULAR BET-MIN BET that would drastically cut our costs during loss streaks?

This would be his version of Ratio Surfing because he would be deferring the bet amounts until later in the series to minimize his exposure in case of a loss streak?
i've to say that the divisor as you name it is pretty straightforward in this system. even without knowledge of divisor i was applying it naturally because of the ratio/hits then i just saw yes i'm using a divisor. the key is to keep the balance low when the worse is happening. when you solve it you get the key to his system he said. it's a dilemma. and to solve this dilemma you have to find his revolutionary idea that is i think beyond all the numbers considerations here and not purely mathematic.

jerome
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: BlueAngel on March 10, 2017, 08:04:36 PM
How about the ''revolutionary idea'' to be the following ratios:

1/666
2/333
3/222
4/151.5
6/111
12/55.5
18/37
24/27.75

Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: jerome26b on March 10, 2017, 08:31:32 PM
the fact is that you can play numbers with a small selection and keep the benefit of a large selection so waiting until numbers came in your favor...
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: Reyth on March 10, 2017, 08:50:47 PM
Right, so part of the "MIN BET" phase is probably betting a DS?  I mean its like a double whammy if you bet a 6 divisor AND a DS...

My Ratio Surfing is using 1.5 MORE of a divisor than the HNB normally calls for while INCREASING the bet selection and LOWERING then bet amount and I have found a 2 MORE to be "too harsh" and have never even tried lowering the bet selection which would be like bizarre... but Load Shedding is a move in that direction to "take the heat off" by betting a DS until the ratio changes but he is definitely lowering his bet selection alot more frequently than that -- its the only answer unless he bets a 6 divisor at the maximum selection.

The thing that broke the ice for me was the MBA; limiting the maximum bet which forces a smaller bet selection.  Once I did that, I stopped losing entirely.  I think Surfing/Shedding is the final key its just the way he does it which is far more extreme than I have tried...

The Core Progression model is to bet the maximum bet selection but the minimum ratio (6).  If we hold to that model, toggling to the regular bet amount after every win, that should lower our costs substantially, where the final bet will be larger but at a ratio of 1?
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: jerome26b on March 10, 2017, 09:09:33 PM
you can change as well the canon 27 the max winning by game is not 9 anymore but 11 now it seems ... maybe Drtalos changed something in his system since he posted his q&a?!?
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: Reyth on March 10, 2017, 09:28:07 PM
No its that "western mindset" thing.

We have two poles to our mind, creative & analytical.  They say in chess both poles work simultanously.  It is very frustrating (painful) to have our creativity "stumped" by our analytical.

One book that is super helpful to get unstuck is:

A Kick in the Seat of the Pants (https://www.slideshare.net/fms1/a-kick-in-the-seat-of-the-pants-3581842)

Right now I am stuck because I am "fearful" of trying a new way of betting that could interfere my success; that's painful in fact.

Intense focus on specific numbers sure did help you find his Core Progression though! :D

The more I think about this the more I am convinced that the key to his most secret method (the smallest possible bets) revolves around how he min bets in the Core Progression; the Turtle Bet.

He could just as easily bet the full amount immediately!
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: DrTalos on March 10, 2017, 10:39:28 PM
Jerome you are right. I changed a little bit the recovery part, to make it more fast to play and a little shorter, that brought me to some games that could finish with a 0 (it is a very unusual combination of hits) and to a maximum profit of 17 (even this one is a very unusual situation).
Most of the time my profit is from 1 to 11.

One of the things I needed to adjust was to bring with me less money. 1400 units of 10\$ are a sum I don't want to go with, and if to this you add the money I will win, you can see that is too much. I tried to cut the maximum exposition to 500 units, because in years I never crossed some limits.

(Can you say that I get a terrible cold today and I am stuck in front of my computer, don't you?)
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: Reyth on March 10, 2017, 10:48:58 PM
Dang Jerome is right again! lol
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: jekhb76 on March 11, 2017, 07:14:18 AM
when you are feeling better DrTalos, I would like to see a play session, and i think many of us here would like to see one. you don't nees to give us the strategy or the progression / recovery mode but just a quick view of what's goin' on on the table when you play.
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: Reyth on March 11, 2017, 08:42:37 AM
Logic Dump

Talos is betting alot less money than would be considered "normal".  This is an undeniable fact that we get from his numbers in the Canon and in his replies since the Canon was posted, where his number of spins vs. max debt is extremely small.

This is a solid fact and the final reason he has a true HG; his "hidden and most difficult secret", the "revolutionary method" about his system.

Because we know this, we can draw certain logical conclusions.

Talos is betting less and therefore:

A) He is lowering his bet amounts at the current ratio
B) He is lowering the bet selection at the current ratio
C) He is doing a combination of A & B
D) He is lowering his bet amounts at a lower ratio
E) He is lowering his bet selection at a lower ratio
F) He is doing a combination of D & E
G) He is doing some combination of A-E

This is a complicated list which seems hard to figure out.  What I have thought about though is Occam's Razor where he says:

If there are several possible ways that something might have happened, the way that uses the fewest guesses is probably the right one; provided that the simple explanation and complex explanation both work equally well.

Now, because Talos uses a ratio of 1:60, bet selections are equal because every bet selection generates numbers and hits that will correspond with that ratio in its own way.

However, the phrase "the way that uses the fewest guesses is probably the right one" can only apply to two of the logical options which are A & D (which then also applies to G) because if he lowers the bet selection it requires more "guesses" to reach 1:60.

So this means he is either (or both):

A) He is lowering his bet amounts at the current ratio
D) He is lowering his bet amounts at a lower ratio

Since D is only a "more severe" version of A, we can safely proceed with A as the solution and bring in D when we see evidence that A is working but just not well enough.

So the solution is:

Talos is lowering his bet amounts at the current ratio.

Despite this, here is an interesting example that shows the advantage of the Turtle bet using a smaller bet selection:

30 units of debt can be paid for by:

30 units on an EC = 18 numbers bet for 30 units cost

OR

3 bets on a DS for:

6=30
8=36
9=44 = 18 numbers bet for 23 units cost (and with a chance for dynamic profit)

And so for this reason, I am better persuaded to assume the Turtle bet is made at a DS to save on costs.

I believe the pattern follows the Core Progression:

-8 <=== big loss
2+2 <=== turtle bet to gain 2 units
If the turtle bet is lost then bet 3+3 which is another turtle bet
but if it is won then bet another large bet and no matter what the outcome of the large  bet, a turtle bet is placed next, unless the ratio is 1.

After every loss a turtle bet is placed
After a turtle bet win, a normal bet is placed
After every normal bet a turtle bet is placed

This should substantially reduce costs with no downside in play because numbers are numbers regardless of where they come from!

(https://forum.roulette30.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fbestanimations.com%2FAnimals%2FReptiles%2Fturtles%2Ffunny-turtle-animated-gif-6.gif&hash=be6b30053b506de7526602a2e0a5c7e5)

UPDATE: Well, I tried this and it racks up artificial debt that is not eclipsed properly even when the smaller selection hits.  Therefore, I guess Occam's Razor was right... O_o

Here is a sample of Occam's TurtleTM:

1 : 156 / 2  41 <=== turtle bet won
10-DZ+DZ loss  52  1 : 180 / 3  40 <=== large bet lost, next bet will be turtle

Split: 1 ( 6 ) 1 ( 5 ) 1 ( 4 ) 2 ( 3 ) 2 ( 2 ) 4 ( 1 )
Street: 1 ( 6 ) 2 ( 5 ) 2 ( 4 ) 2 ( 3 ) 3 ( 2 ) 5 ( 1 )
Quad: 2 ( 6 ) 2 ( 5 ) 2 ( 4 ) 3 ( 3 ) 4 ( 2 ) 7 ( 1 )
DS: 2 ( 6 ) 3 ( 5 ) 3 ( 4 ) 4 ( 3 ) 6 ( 2 ) 11 ( 1 )
DS+Split: 3 / 1 ( 6 ) 3 / 1 ( 5 ) 4 / 1 ( 4 ) 5 / 2 ( 3 ) 7 / 2 ( 2 ) 14 / 4 ( 1 )
DS+Street: 3 / 1 ( 6 ) 3 / 2 ( 5 ) 4 / 2 ( 4 ) 5 / 2 ( 3 ) 7 / 3 ( 2 ) 14 / 6 ( 1 )
DS+Quad: 3 / 2 ( 6 ) 3 / 2 ( 5 ) 4 / 3 ( 4 ) 5 / 3 ( 3 ) 7 / 4 ( 2 ) 14 / 8 ( 1 )
DZ: 5 ( 6 ) 6 ( 5 ) 8 ( 4 ) 10 ( 3 ) 14 ( 2 ) 27 ( 1 )
EC: 10 ( 6 ) 12 ( 5 ) 15 ( 4 ) 19 ( 3 ) 28 ( 2 ) 54 ( 1 )
DZ+DZ 10 / 10 ( 6 ) 12 / 12 ( 5 ) 15 / 15 ( 4 ) 19 / 19 ( 3 ) 28 / 28 ( 2 ) 54 / 54 ( 1 )

10-DZ+DZ loss  72  1 : 204 / 3  39  <=== Turtle bet for only 20 units
10-DZ+DZ WIN  59  2 : 228 / 2  40 <=== Turtle bet won, next bet will be large
10-DZ+DZ WIN  41  3 : 252 / 2  40 <=== Large bet won, next bet will be turtle
10-DZ+DZ WIN  33  4 : 276 / 1  41  <=== Turtle bet won, next bet will be large
9-EC loss  67  4 : 294 / 1  39  <=== Large bet lost but ratio is 1 so continue large
8-DZ WIN -1 <=== Large bet won

Granted, the first turtle bet here was 1 unit more expensive than the EC bet called for under the current ratio but the advantage was with the higher bet selection and so I think it was more than worth it.

Another hidden effect is after the large won DZ+DZ bet, profits are locked in by immediately betting the turtle minimum (ratio 6).

While playing this, I felt as though I had "discovered something" and so I think this is part of the Talos technique and/or will be effective at keeping the costs lower.

Minimizing Exposure to Negative Variance

Normal Betting: [@ratio] [@ratio] [@ratio] <=== all 3 bets are at similarly sized amounts

Turtle Betting: [@<ratio] splits into 2 possible scenarios:
Scenario A: [@<ratio] bet misses = repeat from the beginning
Scenario B: [@<ratio] bet hits = [@ratio] [@<ratio] unless one other scenario:
Secenario 1: ratio =1, then [@ratio]

So in other words we have the following:

[@<ratio] [@<ratio] ... until a win is received
[@ratio] [@<ratio] ... until the ratio is 1
[@ratio] until the ratio is 2 or more & then start over

This method reduces some short term effectiveness in immediate wins but it is implemented not because of favorable statistics (or even just expectation) but instead for negative variance where it will keep the debt to the very lowest possible while still remaining within less than 6 wins of profit at all times.

It has been said that all winning systems must employ some version of this kind of betting in order to accomodate successive loss streaks.

when you are feeling better DrTalos, I would like to see a play session, and i think many of us here would like to see one. you don't nees to give us the strategy or the progression / recovery mode but just a quick view of what's goin' on on the table when you play.

Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: DrTalos on March 11, 2017, 02:22:44 PM
I cannot show you a game of mine because is like showing you my system. I can give some datas, though, to get you some parameters.

The worst game I had so far reached spin 84, had a maximum exposition of 182 units and a final profit of 16. This is the most long exhausting game and has been due to my recent change in the recovery progression.

the sequence was
18
23
4
24
28
0
15
30
20
30
15
00
25
5
30
35
15
18
32
23

At this point I had played a total of 258 numbers with just 3 hits

15
34
11
35
24
2
13
36
29
21
21
2
24
9
8
24
11
14
1
26
21
8
14
11
9

now the number played are 438, with 3 more hits, the exposition is at 119. At this point I have ten more spins to get a hit to close the game. Unfortunately didn't happen.

8
24
11
14
1
26
21
8
14
11
9
11
1
5
17
10
16
11
22
33
33

More 168 number played, and few more hits. I am now out of 140 units.

16
27
00
34
20
9
36
22
5
32
36
22
5
32
36
6
4
6

Exposition at 162

3
10
23
14
19
35
6
13
35
00
9
29
17
25
21
21

the repetition of 21 closes the game for me.
I played 724 numbers to hit 11 numbers. I was at the third step of my recovery, and I have four levels of it (I never reached the fourth so far).
In the third level, in the moment I hit, I had like 20 more spins to get one hit, so I was pretty comfortable that my game was near to the end.

There are tons of informations here, for good ears...

Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: jekhb76 on March 11, 2017, 02:41:51 PM
Thank you for giving us some more insight.
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: juice on March 11, 2017, 02:45:10 PM
I guess Eddy knows how to ask the correct way!  DREAM ON...... LOL
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: jerome26b on March 11, 2017, 03:12:01 PM
when i see your sequence i see a clear pattern it's lot of repeaters so i can believe you use some pattern of bet against a repeat in some way and the recovery was long in this sequence because of that ... on the other hand you close the game with a repeater so can't be so sure  :D  and i'm right to say that at the end of this very long sequence you were only playing 3 numbers ? or more accurate one street ? it's the first time you talk about a 4 step recovery it remind me some star/carsh system that maybe you took as basis and improved in your own way. anyway thanks for all this valuable information mrtalos.

jerome
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: juice on March 11, 2017, 03:42:09 PM
REYTH, There are many, many, many, areas of his sequences that he could have employed the stratagy that I layed out in Pales, post. It would have closed the game, lickity split! It is obvious he is not playing every spin, and he needs a repeat condition to close the deal. Jerome and you, can really roll up your sleeves now, and solve this. I see many solutions for the end game, but I am enjoying the living crap out of watching this carnival!
LONG LIVE THE TALOS MYSTERY!!!!!!!!!!
ALL HAIL THE DR.
GREAT JOB EDDY, FOR THE MAGIC TOUCH!
IF NOBODY BELIEVES DR. TALOS IS REAL AND WANTS THE BEST FOR ALL, YOU ARE MISTAKEN, HE HAS GIVEN PLENTY OF INFORMATION NOW AND WANTS YOU TO SUCCEED.
LIKE MULTI VARIABLE CALCULUS, THERE ARE ALWAYS SEVERAL WAYS TO FIND THE SAME SOLUTION !!!
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: Reyth on March 11, 2017, 03:45:27 PM
SESSION CANON

1)23
2)4
3)24
4)28
5)0
6)15
7)30
8)20
9)30
10)15
11)00
12)25
13)5
14)30
15)35
16)15
17)18
18)32
19)23
20)15
21)34
22)11
23)35
24)24
25)2
26)13
27)36
28)29
29)21
30)21
31)2
32)24
33)9
34)8
35)24
36)11
37)14
38)1
39)26
40)21
41)8
42)14
43)11
44)9

45)11
46)1
47)5
48)17
49)10
50)16
51)11
52)22
53)33
54)33

55)16
56)27
57)00
58)34
59)20
60)9
61)36
62)22
63)5
64)32
65)36

66)6
67)4
68)6

69)3
70)10
71)23
72)14
73)19
74)35
75)6
76)13
77)35
78)00
79)9
80)29
81)17
82)25
83)21
84)21
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: BlueAngel on March 11, 2017, 04:14:48 PM
Maybe not betting all spins...hmmm.
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: jekhb76 on March 11, 2017, 04:23:36 PM
well i just ask a simple question.
i will respect the fact that he would not give us his system, that is his own right. if i wish he would? ofcourse. do i believe he is real and telling the truth? yes i do. do we solve the mystery? maybe, maybe not. i see it as a good book, we cannot wait to find the awnser at the end, but we are only on page 2. but it is a great story and i enjoy every minute of this post.
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: DrTalos on March 11, 2017, 05:12:39 PM
Sorry guys, I didn't meant to do that. Probably sneezes and copy and paste don't work well together.
As you can see there is a section pasted twice.

In the Reyth counting, from number 30) to 40) are not valid, are just a repetition of the previous section, and number from 62) to 65) I have no idea where they came from, and the total should be 84 number played (the first number listed is not played, is where my counting starts).

I really apologize for the confusion.

MOD EDIT: Updating the record now.  No evidence left of any error.  Thanks!

Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: DrTalos on March 11, 2017, 05:23:02 PM
And, for the rest, a nice, polite question is more likeable to be answered than an arrogant, rude accusation.
If you call me a liar or a scammer, you will not get much help from me, but if you are nice and correct, I am more inclined to help you. This is common courtesy, am I right?

Yes, I really want you to succeed, but not all of you. There are lazy people who do not deserve anything else that their own misery, while other can build their own system and be successful. I believe in awards for whom deserves it. I sure will not get poorer giving my system for free, but why I should do that? Apple doesn't give phones at a lower price despite his incredible cash and value, and sure you do not expect that your doctor or lawyer, who are already richer than me, give you advices and helps for free, so why do you ask me for that.

Last week an Asian guy offered me 5000\$ cash for my system, at the casino. I refused, of course, and I offered him a dinner instead, and we parted ways I don't say as friends, but on the road to be. Isn't this better?

Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: DrTalos on March 11, 2017, 05:38:04 PM
Reyth, there is a repetion of 11 numbers (from 30) to 40) ) and four numbers out of the blue you need to wipe out of the sequence (22 - 5 - 32- 36). So the total number posted should be 85. The first number is my starting point, so I played 84 spins, from the number 23 to the number 21.

I hope it is clear now.
We had a meal together, and after that we parted ways. He got my numbers I got his. I suppose he will raise his offer, just to get a new dinner... ;)
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: BlueAngel on March 11, 2017, 05:38:48 PM

It became clear to me now and I've understood the ''revolutionary idea'' behind it, also explains why it's relatively easy to bet in short time (airball roulette 50'' to 1':20'').
However,I'm not sure if dr Talos would want to reveal more...
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: Reyth on March 11, 2017, 05:46:01 PM
I have a 1 number discrepancy still.  :'(

Could you please tell me which number to remove from my current numbering system?
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: jerome26b on March 11, 2017, 05:56:08 PM
And, for the rest, a nice, polite question is more likeable to be answered than an arrogant, rude accusation.
If you call me a liar or a scammer, you will not get much help from me, but if you are nice and correct, I am more inclined to help you. This is common courtesy, am I right?

Yes, I really want you to succeed, but not all of you. There are lazy people who do not deserve anything else that their own misery, while other can build their own system and be successful. I believe in awards for whom deserves it. I sure will not get poorer giving my system for free, but why I should do that? Apple doesn't give phones at a lower price despite his incredible cash and value, and sure you do not expect that your doctor or lawyer, who are already richer than me, give you advices and helps for free, so why do you ask me for that.

Last week an Asian guy offered me 5000\$ cash for my system, at the casino. I refused, of course, and I offered him a dinner instead, and we parted ways I don't say as friends, but on the road to be. Isn't this better?

selling a working system that is an HG for a price so low (except it's millions that you will take more than ten years to grind) has no sense in my opinion cause the guy you sell it can do what i say now with your system and using it in a marketing way. if you remember well what i proposed it was more like a collaboration with percentage and full discrecy cause of course like you know if too many people know the system publicly it will be hard to manage it (even if we consider the boredom and anything else) even on this i'm sceptical people can manage the boredom of a working system at the end ... anyway my offer was more to prove at a moment you were playing with all of us. it doesn't mean it was not completely serious but at that moment i felt frustrated and want to have a way to the truth in any possible way. i still don't want that you sell your system except if you really want yourself a professional collaboration that's all. by the way with all your last outputs and what i studied already about your system so far i can't imagine i'm so stupid to NOT find the way now....

jerome
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: BlueAngel on March 11, 2017, 06:07:37 PM
I have a 1 number discrepancy still.  :'(

Could you please tell me which number to remove from my current numbering system?

He said the first result, number 18 on the top of the list, is not a bet.
Remove the duplicate results mentioned above and there you are, 84 spins/bets.

The revolutionary idea came to be by comparing 2 famous progressions and creating a new, different from both...
the result was a bet restraint which in combination with the ratio determines bet se(le)ction.
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: jerome26b on March 11, 2017, 06:24:26 PM
I have a 1 number discrepancy still.  :'(

Could you please tell me which number to remove from my current numbering system?

He said the first result, number 18 on the top of the list, is not a bet.
Remove the duplicate results mentioned above and there you are, 84 spins/bets.

The revolutionary idea came to be by comparing 2 famous progressions and creating a new, different from both...
the result was a bet constraint which in combination with the ratio determines bet se(le)ction.
so BA you found the system ?

jerome
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: BlueAngel on March 11, 2017, 06:32:36 PM
Think I did, but only Talos could confirm it.
Perhaps for some reason beyond my understanding he prefers not to reply my posts, anyway, in the worst situation I've not found it and left with my other 3 winning methods, in the contrary, I've enriched by gambling arsenal by 1 more.
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: jerome26b on March 11, 2017, 06:37:29 PM
And, for the rest, a nice, polite question is more likeable to be answered than an arrogant, rude accusation.
If you call me a liar or a scammer, you will not get much help from me, but if you are nice and correct, I am more inclined to help you. This is common courtesy, am I right?

Yes, I really want you to succeed, but not all of you. There are lazy people who do not deserve anything else that their own misery, while other can build their own system and be successful. I believe in awards for whom deserves it. I sure will not get poorer giving my system for free, but why I should do that? Apple doesn't give phones at a lower price despite his incredible cash and value, and sure you do not expect that your doctor or lawyer, who are already richer than me, give you advices and helps for free, so why do you ask me for that.

Last week an Asian guy offered me 5000\$ cash for my system, at the casino. I refused, of course, and I offered him a dinner instead, and we parted ways I don't say as friends, but on the road to be. Isn't this better?

i will rebound last time about this topic cause it's quite important in my understanding and i suppose in yours as well. if you got something that can bring you lot of money just from your work before. you worked on a system you took 20 years to achieve like somebody building his carier or building a software or business to a mature point that it is very good. right now is more about if you like to continue to grind in casino or not (i can imagine for a moment it's pleasant to win when you lost so many times before, kind of revenge and good feeling  isn't it ?) but at the end after some more years it can be questionable i suppose. I would have to say that if now i would find an HG i would do the most (carefully anyway) to be able to take the most money i can then stop cause of course i will be banned. The missing part we don't have is the in/out of online casinos but i can tell you it's crazy figures. last time on tv i saw the top and some had winning figures of 60 millions euros just for the evening. they are high rollers and probably they lose more the next day who know but what i would say when i see that is the fact even winning 1000€ a day is quite nothing in the business model and they will probably even not notice you ... don't forget many people are going to casino just not to want win money (they have already so much) but just to prove by entertainment they can lose so much in an entertaining way (it's the luxury to be rich).
if i'm a billionaire i would have nice time losing a million in a casino and have a good night/evening.

jerome
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: Reyth on March 11, 2017, 07:17:09 PM
Well BA, I get the idea about the mixture of progressions & restraint but not how he is able to get his bets so low, still working on that...
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: jekhb76 on March 11, 2017, 07:30:43 PM
my guess is that a. he is trackin' alot and not bet everything. and b. he uses some kind of a parachute system.
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: DrTalos on March 11, 2017, 07:47:18 PM
BlueAngel, what you found is your own personal intellectual property, so you can dispose of it anyhow you want. You do not own me anything, either if you found my system or developed a new one that works.

I can only tell you if you found mine or a new one. You can post here or send me a PM, as you wish.

Jerome, if you plan to have a business relation, you must find a solution that is equable profitable for both sides. When you buy a intellectual property, not a thing or similar, you have to offer some warranties, something back. I vague promise of percentage is not enough.
I didn't say I will accept, but at least I will consider it. Is like my Asian guy: he offered 5000\$, I couldn't be interested, but a real offer probably I would have considered the deal (that's is what I told him, after I said how much can be profitable my system).

Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: BlueAngel on March 11, 2017, 08:20:36 PM
I completely agree with you dr Talos.  8)
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: BlueAngel on March 11, 2017, 09:43:07 PM
Dr Talos has 2 winning systems but the one he is talking about here is better than the other in regards of risk versus reward ratio.
The other system risks more to win less money but non the less a winner too.
In comparison with my 3 winning systems, dr Talos best one (the one described here) is only worst from my best 1, but better from the other 2.
There are various degrees of effectiveness, but the most objective criterion is of course the money, how much I have to risk and how much I can gain in respect with my risk, this relationship is the key!
If you don't believe me you might ask dr Talos.
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: Reyth on March 11, 2017, 09:52:30 PM
Pardon me but 1400 at risk to double every 2-3 days is one of the most solid risk:reward ratios that I have ever seen in a genuine system.  You aren't likely to beat it with anything else that's a true and genuine HG.

Remember he has yet to even lose with this system in well over 100K spins now and he doubles his total playing bankroll about every 3 days.
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: BlueAngel on March 11, 2017, 10:03:12 PM
Pardon me but 1400 at risk to double every 2-3 days is one of the most solid risk:reward ratios that I have ever seen in a genuine system.  You aren't likely to beat it with anything else that's a true and genuine HG.

As our knowledge growing our perception becomes greater as a result and every now and then something new comes to light in order to change or complete what we knew.
As you see, knowledge, perception and evolution are the links of the same chain...
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: Reyth on March 11, 2017, 10:12:30 PM
Its not about me Blue.  If you expect us to believe that you are the holder of a more powerful HG than Talos when I saw a thread of yours complaining about losing that didn't seem like it was too long ago, OK, fine.

Furthermore your comparison with your supposedly better system shows that you don't even understand his system because he hasn't even lost.

So you have a system that you have played/tested around 200K spins and haven't lost?

I mean if you do, great more power to you and pardon me for interrupting you.
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: BlueAngel on March 11, 2017, 10:16:29 PM
When was that happened?
Probably about a year back, right?

Spins are not the number one criterion, money is!

For example think 3 different systems, the first after 1,000,000 spins has 56 units gain, a drop in the ocean if you consider the duration needed to realize it but still a winner.

The second wins on average 1 unit per approximately 500 spins and after 250,000 spins is 500 units up, doesn't makes a kill but still a winner.

The third loses more frequently but averages 1 unit per spin and after 10,000 results its profit stands at 10,000 units.

Which one do you consider better ? (or luckier:-)
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: Reyth on March 11, 2017, 10:17:16 PM
Well ya you were gone awhile.
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: DrTalos on March 11, 2017, 11:04:28 PM
Beg your pardon, BlueAngel, but I am not sure to completely understand your claim.

You say you have three winning systems, and you already understood my 2 (?) systems, without proving to anyone any of this statement. If you already understood my system, just send me a message explaining what's the idea behind it (without revealing the system you found, just show me you got something), and I can follow your claim here.
I think Reyth has already closed your claim, and in a very elegant way if I can say.

Generally speaking, I can't accept a system that "sometimes" fails. It breaks my nerves, my attitude, my trust. Once a system fail is already gone forever.
About my 2 systems, it is just one, with a small change I did in the recovery section (probably I already mentioned that) because in so many spins never occurred to cross some boundaries (Do I really need to be covered for 263 spins when never crossed 100?) so I shortened a little to a more aggressive recovery. This has lowered the bankroll needed (I am at 500) that is exactly double the amount I consider safe, as is my habit.

When I play, I put 250 units (were 300) in the machine, and I play for 4/5 hrs straight, then I go home. I find this way more manageable for me. I am always ready to put more units in it, but in the last month never happened (previously has happen way more frequently).
The price of this change is the overall profit of the system (it lowered down a little), but I solved it playing a "mirror" version of it in the same time. That force me to use paper and pen to track the game, but for now it is ok. I guess I am getting too old to remember everything and calculate everything on the spot.

I have to admit that the perception of the game changed recently, after the opening of my company. Maybe I am just more relaxed, maybe I am just happy (and money from casino helped but are not all of it).
Probably, the fever now took out the best part of me, the extrovert... who knows.

Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: BlueAngel on March 11, 2017, 11:13:10 PM
This is because 2-3 times per year I'm on casino tour for 1-2 consecutive months, while there usually I don't bother with any forum, but when I return I've plenty of time to do whatever I want, including chatting at forums with persons like you.
Trust me, I'm feeling you Reyth, If I were you I'd only believe what I know and can do.
But YOUR reality, or what you consider possible, is not everyone's reality...

By the way, do you know how many spins dr Talos used to test his current HG before start winning money?
As incredible as might sound, 1000 spins!
Then continue with quarters on airball roulettes and gradually, slowly but safely arrived where he is now.
If you don't believe me why don't you ask him!

The point I'm trying to make is not to be prejudged and jump to rushing conclusions.
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: DrTalos on March 11, 2017, 11:55:38 PM
BlueAngel, Angelo Attoni, don't say stupid things. You very badly interpreted your way a personal communication we had. To make people understand, I copied and paste what I said to you almost a year ago.

"I recorded a session of 1000 spins. I tried on that 8 different selection strategy, and all of them had similar result. Sure, games were different one another (some shorter, some longer) but the overall result and the average wins were very similar (two different selections had the same exact winning, how is that?)."

As everyone can easily understand, was an answer to your claim that the selection was everything and the progression a part of it. Many times I said that the selection is not important, important is the total number played each time (Reyth got this concept perfectly).

Unfortunately for you I keep track of everything I do (I have too much paper and archives in my house, ask my wife).
By the way, I will never use part of our private communication to put you in a bad light, it is not my style.
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: BlueAngel on March 12, 2017, 12:08:09 AM
I said 1000 spins and you just confirmed it, so did I mentioned anything inaccurate regarding what you have told me??
The only way to said something which is not true about you Filippo, is by you misleading me in the first place (private communication).
Like you said (and perfectly understand) is that I don't have to explain you what I'm doing because I don't need your congratulations, I know better than anyone the rewards I reap from my efforts.
Thanks but I don't need any confirmation,reassurance about what I already know.
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: DrTalos on March 12, 2017, 12:39:34 AM
You inaccurately stated that I tested my system for 1000 spins before playing it. Is not important how much I tested it, it is important that you said one thing not true.
The 1000 spin was just to test if my opinion that the selection wasn't important was true or not, not about the validity of the system.

You claimed several time, in the last year, to have completely understood my HG. You talked about my selection, that I play four numbers for 256 spins, that I add a quad with every spin, and so on and so forth. You never been even close to my system, and you still say you got it. Wasn't true one year ago, is not true now.

Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: BlueAngel on March 12, 2017, 12:49:05 AM
Not that it is important for me but show me where I said that you bet 4 numbers for 256 spins.
I'm sorry to disappoint you but probably you confuse me with someone else, never said that and I'd not had any problem to admit it.
The important is not how many spins tested but how many won.
I feel you are a little bit irritated, probably the cold, my wishes to get well soon.
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: DrTalos on March 12, 2017, 01:18:13 AM
mail from you March 2016

"if you divide 1000 units by 256 spins you bet something less than 4 units per spin."

I suggest to finish this here, and if you want to proceed I suggest you to use my private email, you already have my address. We are annoying people here.
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: BlueAngel on March 12, 2017, 01:45:35 AM
mail from you March 2016

"if you divide 1000 units by 256 spins you bet something less than 4 units per spin."

I suggest to finish this here, and if you want to proceed I suggest you to use my private email, you already have my address. We are annoying people here.

4 units are not 4 numbers dr Talos, besides why to say 1000 units when I know that you use 1400??
Ups!
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: DrTalos on March 12, 2017, 02:05:38 AM
You are right, my bad. I was stuck in my mind with your comprehension of my system that was:

"So I have worked out the clues you gave and I concluded that you start by betting 1 corner, then 2 corners, then 3 corners, then 4 corners, then 5 corners."

Probably I was just reminding the idea of playing 4 numbers (if with corners, as I understood, you mean a quad)

Still keeping my suggestion, though.

Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: BlueAngel on March 12, 2017, 02:22:19 AM
I don't remember saying so, but you may use it if you like as evidence against me!
You caught me, I couldn't guess your HG!
Anyway, goodnight.
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: juice on March 12, 2017, 02:38:56 AM
In the infamous words of Rodney King...............Can we all get along?
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: Reyth on March 12, 2017, 02:55:29 AM
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: jekhb76 on March 12, 2017, 08:14:43 AM
Please folks, when you want to fight something out, do it in a private conversation, not in the open. This forum has so much more then to fight persononal stuff out. this reminds me of a other roulette forum and the reason why i don't go there anymore, because of this. Now shake hands, and move along. 8)
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: jerome26b on March 12, 2017, 09:13:22 AM
hello everybody,

so let's go back to work now i have the feeling the solution is always following the same logic. It's finding the main idea and it can't be so simple as adding or substracting a corner spin after spin. I don't think drtalos is using virtual spinning (he already confirmed that in the past and sorry but make nonsense for me to use virtual in a continuous recovery progression). it's evidence the recovery can take some ideas of the 'parachute' we know that already since months... and DRtalos always stated he's not using history and last spins to start betting so he can play it without any look at the board when he's starting. (the fact he can play his system in "mirror" just confirm that for me). the only thing we don't know is if some hits when he's playing his progression affect the selection (or the betting amount on part of the selection he's using after that ). logically i would say no cause it's little bit against the logic around everything he explained about his system (you can stick to last one, play the last outcome, reverse etc just the total number played is important)
i've good idea since weeks now about what he's doing maybe but unfortunately i was not yet able to find some hours in a row yet to concentrate and do some simulations. i will try to do it asap and if i find something i will write to MRtalos with the idea (if it's succeed only)
with the last infos he gave this weekend it should hopefully make my task a little bit easier and less time consuming by discarding already too many 'open' options i got.

jerome
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: Reyth on March 12, 2017, 09:45:39 AM
I think I have discovered what he is doing!

It is the concept put out by Ahcoln here:

https://forum.roulette30.com/index.php?topic=426.msg4744#msg4744

The reason I have come to this conclusion is because literally NOTHING ELSE works.  I mean unless you make the debt disappear, there is no way that you can have the max debt levels that he does for the number of spins AND not bet less than a DS AND STILL close every game by 1:60.  Reducing the betting ratio doesn't work.  Reducing the bet selection doesn't work.

I think what he is doing is dividing the debt into series of small games and banking the rest.  I think his "levels" are an adjustment of this banking system.

Ok obviously he does not use a "Profit Bank" because every game starts new with a win.

Of course we know that 1:60 is always a full Recoup stage and that before that he is segmenting the debt into 5 pieces after the first win.

So let's use a concrete example from the 7th exit point of the Core Progression:

1:228/4 59

This is a ratio of 4 and a debt of 59 units.  The normal base bet called for is 15 units and I would normally be betting DZ+DZ for 30 units (15+15) here which is within the MBA (bet cap) of 3%.

See, I don't think there is any way he bets 30 or even 15 units here because his debt levels are way too low.  This means he is splitting this debt even further.

I can see him establishing a RB_1 and putting 30 units into it and addressing a remaining balance of 29 units.

Whoah just had an interesting idea flit across my mind that revolves around splitting the ratios along with the debt!?

So in the above example the 30 units in RB_0 would have an HNB of 1:114 and the 29 units in RB_1 would then also have an HNB of 1:114 -- both are now a ratio of 1!

So this means that we are in Recoup mode and should now clear out completely the debt of 30 units in RB_0.

This debt amount may seem high to clear all at once but we should remember that we are in a statistically very rare situation with a ratio of 1:228; I went over 5000 coups and never saw it once.

Of course the problem with this plan is that it is the same thing as attacking the entire debt with a divisor of 2 which is nothing special and so therefore we should try and reduce RB_0 to the lowest possible amount.

This would be 1:61; which is 0.2675438596491228 and represents a debt of 16 units!

Now this is much better!  So RB_0 has 16 units with a ratio of 1:61 and RB_1 has 43 units with a ratio of of 1:167.

Now its a little more interesting and a bit different than we were doing it with just a simple divisor! :)

This concept of chopping debt into ratio packages of 1:61 seems quite powerful...

Funny thing though, the example above is no different than attacking the entire debt with a divisor of 4! >.<

So I guess in my mind it wasn't very clear that the divisor system is actually an automatic banking system and ratio packages of 1:60 is what the HNB does in establishing its number, it simply sets up 4 banks and tells us to attack the first bank.

Errf, even though this concept feels so innovative its nothing but a WHIFF!

(https://forum.roulette30.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fcdn3.sportngin.com%2Fattachments%2Fphoto%2F0488%2F6975%2Fwhiff-o.gif&hash=47758a455ccd42620a08fe438b5ea478)

Banking the debt doesn't help, we are already doing it!!

Of course there is the "on-off" mode of Normal and Recoup which he is probably using but I tried a version of it and it didn't help because accruing debt at a vastly lower amount actually cripples the natural ability of the bet selection method to recoup debt efficiently because there is not enough profit to afford the larger (and more efficient) bet selections.

The only way it might possibly work is if we just hit a DS and stopped reducing the bet selection and just used the "on-off" pattern of 6-divisor bet until you get a hit and then normal ratio bet until you get a win or the ratio increases and where upon a win/ratio increase we increase the bet selection as much as we can.

So maybe my problem was reducing the bet selection beyond a DS...

1 : 156 / 2  41
10-DZ+DZ loss  52  1 : 180 / 3  40

Split: 1 ( 6 ) 1 ( 5 ) 1 ( 4 ) 2 ( 3 ) 2 ( 2 ) 4 ( 1 )
Street: 1 ( 6 ) 2 ( 5 ) 2 ( 4 ) 2 ( 3 ) 3 ( 2 ) 5 ( 1 )
Quad: 2 ( 6 ) 2 ( 5 ) 2 ( 4 ) 3 ( 3 ) 4 ( 2 ) 7 ( 1 )
DS: 2 ( 6 ) 3 ( 5 ) 3 ( 4 ) 4 ( 3 ) 6 ( 2 ) 11 ( 1 )
DS+Split: 3 / 1 ( 6 ) 3 / 1 ( 5 ) 4 / 1 ( 4 ) 5 / 2 ( 3 ) 7 / 2 ( 2 ) 14 / 4 ( 1 )
DS+Street: 3 / 1 ( 6 ) 3 / 2 ( 5 ) 4 / 2 ( 4 ) 5 / 2 ( 3 ) 7 / 3 ( 2 ) 14 / 6 ( 1 )
DS+Quad: 3 / 2 ( 6 ) 3 / 2 ( 5 ) 4 / 3 ( 4 ) 5 / 3 ( 3 ) 7 / 4 ( 2 ) 14 / 8 ( 1 )
DZ: 5 ( 6 ) 6 ( 5 ) 8 ( 4 ) 10 ( 3 ) 14 ( 2 ) 27 ( 1 )
EC: 10 ( 6 ) 12 ( 5 ) 15 ( 4 ) 19 ( 3 ) 28 ( 2 ) 54 ( 1 )
DZ+DZ 10 / 10 ( 6 ) 12 / 12 ( 5 ) 15 / 15 ( 4 ) 19 / 19 ( 3 ) 28 / 28 ( 2 ) 54 / 54 ( 1 )

10-DZ+DZ loss  72  1 : 204 / 3  39
10-DZ+DZ WIN  59  2 : 228 / 2  40
10-DZ+DZ WIN  41  3 : 252 / 2  40
10-DZ+DZ WIN  33  4 : 276 / 1  41
9-EC loss  67  4 : 294 / 1  39
8-DZ WIN -1
1 : 108 / 1  41
10-DZ+DZ loss  38  1 : 132 / 2  40
10-DZ+DZ loss  52  1 : 156 / 2  40
10-DZ+DZ WIN  42  2 : 180 / 2  40

Split: 1 ( 6 ) 1 ( 5 ) 1 ( 4 ) 1 ( 3 ) 2 ( 2 ) 3 ( 1 )
Street: 1 ( 6 ) 1 ( 5 ) 2 ( 4 ) 2 ( 3 ) 3 ( 2 ) 4 ( 1 )
Quad: 2 ( 6 ) 2 ( 5 ) 2 ( 4 ) 2 ( 3 ) 3 ( 2 ) 6 ( 1 )
DS: 2 ( 6 ) 2 ( 5 ) 3 ( 4 ) 4 ( 3 ) 5 ( 2 ) 9 ( 1 )
DS+Split: 3 / 1 ( 6 ) 3 / 1 ( 5 ) 3 / 1 ( 4 ) 4 / 1 ( 3 ) 6 / 2 ( 2 ) 11 / 3 ( 1 )
DS+Street: 3 / 1 ( 6 ) 3 / 1 ( 5 ) 3 / 2 ( 4 ) 4 / 2 ( 3 ) 6 / 3 ( 2 ) 11 / 5 ( 1 )
DS+Quad: 3 / 2 ( 6 ) 3 / 2 ( 5 ) 3 / 2 ( 4 ) 4 / 3 ( 3 ) 6 / 4 ( 2 ) 11 / 7 ( 1 )
DZ: 5 ( 6 ) 5 ( 5 ) 6 ( 4 ) 8 ( 3 ) 12 ( 2 ) 22 ( 1 )
EC: 9 ( 6 ) 10 ( 5 ) 12 ( 4 ) 16 ( 3 ) 23 ( 2 ) 44 ( 1 )
DZ+DZ 9 / 9 ( 6 ) 10 / 10 ( 5 ) 12 / 12 ( 4 ) 16 / 16 ( 3 ) 23 / 23 ( 2 ) 44 / 44 ( 1 )

10-DZ+DZ loss  72  2 : 204 / 2  39
10-DZ+DZ loss  98  2 : 228 / 2  39
10-DZ+DZ WIN  81  3 : 252 / 2  39

Split: 1 ( 6 ) 2 ( 5 ) 2 ( 4 ) 2 ( 3 ) 3 ( 2 ) 5 ( 1 )
Street: 2 ( 6 ) 2 ( 5 ) 2 ( 4 ) 3 ( 3 ) 4 ( 2 ) 8 ( 1 )
Quad: 2 ( 6 ) 3 ( 5 ) 3 ( 4 ) 4 ( 3 ) 6 ( 2 ) 11 ( 1 )
DS: 3 ( 6 ) 4 ( 5 ) 5 ( 4 ) 6 ( 3 ) 9 ( 2 ) 17 ( 1 )
DS+Split: 4 / 1 ( 6 ) 5 / 2 ( 5 ) 6 / 2 ( 4 ) 8 / 2 ( 3 ) 11 / 3 ( 2 ) 21 / 6 ( 1 )
DS+Street: 4 / 2 ( 6 ) 5 / 2 ( 5 ) 6 / 3 ( 4 ) 8 / 3 ( 3 ) 11 / 5 ( 2 ) 21 / 9 ( 1 )
DS+Quad: 4 / 3 ( 6 ) 5 / 3 ( 5 ) 6 / 4 ( 4 ) 8 / 5 ( 3 ) 11 / 6 ( 2 ) 21 / 12 ( 1 )
DZ: 8 ( 6 ) 9 ( 5 ) 11 ( 4 ) 15 ( 3 ) 21 ( 2 ) 42 ( 1 )
EC: 15 ( 6 ) 18 ( 5 ) 22 ( 4 ) 29 ( 3 ) 42 ( 2 ) 83 ( 1 )
DZ+DZ 15 / 15 ( 6 ) 18 / 18 ( 5 ) 22 / 22 ( 4 ) 29 / 29 ( 3 ) 42 / 42 ( 2 ) 83 / 83 ( 1 )

9-EC WIN  52  4 : 270 / 1  40
8-DZ loss  79  4 : 281 / 1  39
7-DS+Quad loss  115  4 : 291 / 1  38
5-DS+Split loss  152  4 : 299 / 1  37
4-DS loss  183  4 : 305 / 2  36
9-EC WIN  151  5 : 323 / 1  37
4-DS loss  182  5 : 329 / 1  36
3-Quad loss  205  5 : 333 / 1  35 <=== here we should
3-Quad loss  231  5 : 337 / 1  35 <=== have been
3-Quad loss  261  5 : 341 / 1  34 <=== 6 divisor betting
3-Quad loss  294  5 : 345 / 1  33 <=== a DS
2-Street loss  321  5 : 348 / 1  32
2-Street loss  351  5 : 351 / 1  31
1-Split loss  372  5 : 353 / 1  30
1-Split loss  394  5 : 355 / 1  30
1-Split loss  418  5 : 357 / 1  29
1-Split loss  443  5 : 359 / 1  28
1-Split loss  470  5 : 361 / 2  27
5-DS+Split WIN  391  6 : 369 / 1  30 <=== ratio change increased the bet selection
1-Split loss  415  6 : 371 / 1  29
1-Split loss  440  6 : 373 / 1  28
1-Split loss  466  6 : 375 / 1  28
1-Split loss  494  6 : 377 / 1  27
1-Split loss  509  6 : 379 / 1  26
1-Split loss  524  6 : 381 / 1  26
1-Split loss  539  6 : 383 / 1  25
1-Split loss  555  6 : 385 / 1  25
1-Split loss  571  6 : 387 / 1  24
1-Split loss  588  6 : 389 / 1  24
1-Split loss  605  6 : 391 / 1  23
1-Split loss  623  6 : 393 / 1  23
1-Split loss  641  6 : 395 / 1  22
1-Split loss  660  6 : 397 / 1  22
1-Split loss  679  6 : 399 / 1  21
1-Split loss  699  6 : 401 / 1  21
1-Split loss  719  6 : 403 / 1  20
1-Split loss  740  6 : 405 / 1  19
1-Split loss  761  6 : 407 / 1  19
1-Split loss  783  6 : 409 / 1  18
1-Split loss  806  6 : 411 / 1  17
1-Split loss  830  6 : 413 / 1  17
1-Split loss  854  6 : 415 / 1  16
1-Split loss  879  6 : 417 / 1  15
1-Split loss  905  6 : 419 / 1  14
1-Split loss  931  6 : 421 / 2  14
1-Split loss  941  6 : 423 / 2  13
1-Split loss  951  6 : 425 / 2  13
1-Split loss  961  6 : 427 / 2  13
1-Split loss  971  6 : 429 / 2  12
1-Split loss  981  6 : 431 / 2  12
1-Split loss  991  6 : 433 / 2  12
1-Split loss  1001  6 : 435 / 2  11
1-Split loss  1011  6 : 437 / 2  11
1-Split loss  1021  6 : 439 / 2  11
1-Split loss  1032  6 : 441 / 2  11
1-Split loss  1043  6 : 443 / 2  10
1-Split loss  1058  6 : 445 / 2  10
1-Split loss  1074  6 : 447 / 2  9
1-Split loss  1090  6 : 449 / 2  9
1-Split loss  1106  6 : 451 / 2  8
1-Split loss  1122  6 : 453 / 2  8
1-Split loss  1139  6 : 455 / 2  7
1-Split loss  1156  6 : 457 / 2  7
1-Split loss  1173  6 : 459 / 2  6
1-Split loss  1190  6 : 461 / 2  6
1-Split loss  1208  6 : 463 / 2  5
1-Split loss  1226  6 : 465 / 2  5
1-Split loss  1244  6 : 467 / 2  4
1-Split loss  1262  6 : 469 / 2  4
1-Split loss  1281  6 : 471 / 2  3
1-Split loss  1300  6 : 473 / 2  3
1-Split loss  1319  6 : 475 / 2  2
1-Split loss  1338  6 : 477 / 2  1
1-Split loss  1358  6 : 479 / 2  1
1-Split loss  1378  6 : 481 / 3  0
1-Split loss  1392  6 : 483 / 3  0

And the splits just missed us to death and in fact at a certain point they became a S/U number.

The concept behind the "on-off" method (turtle betting) is that losses tend to come in clusters followed by a series of wins clumped together and so we min-bet during the loss streaks and normal bet after a win is obtained until the ratio changes.

I will try "holding my ground" at a DS and see what happens.
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: jekhb76 on March 12, 2017, 10:22:28 AM
Can't wait where this is goin' !

GOOD WORK, Reyth !!
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: Reyth on March 12, 2017, 10:53:46 AM
Meh.  Sorry to disappoint you but ran in a huge circle. :'(
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: juice on March 12, 2017, 10:55:45 AM
I use a watered down Alcon style progression and I will say it is effective, but it can be a bit steeper than Talos likes to bet. And he states that he does not use any parlay. I basically mentioned this many posts ago. I agree with you though, there is no other solution besides a parlay of some type. But does it really matter at this point? This bet has morphed into a personal preference kinda thing anyway! I'm tell, you just sit on the dozen or columns repeat and parlay once, and use separate events(banks), and the bet cleans itself up very quickly and without escalating out of control. In fact, you can decrease the bet as you go due to the aggressive nature of the payout. If you use the two consecutive wins rule, you are wasting an opportunity to clear the open banks. The recoup stage is not necessary, just skip it and go to the parlay. If you want to follow the fibbo while trying this have at it because your wins will be turbo charged at the parlay stage.
No rest for the wicked my brother, keep it going.......... Best, juice
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: Reyth on March 12, 2017, 11:00:53 AM
Ya I wasn't proposing a literal use of his betting method but instead of the banking method which of course I discovered is impossible. >.<
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: BlueAngel on March 12, 2017, 03:59:17 PM
@ Reyth,

Are you sure that there is no betting below six numbers?
I think you've overlooked the bet selection and, in my opinion, there must be 5,4,3,2,1 numbers bet on later stages.

@ Jerome & Reyth
If you eventually found something would you share it publicly, here on this thread?
In other words a HG for EVERYONE?!
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: juice on March 12, 2017, 07:24:01 PM
B.A.,  in my opinion, even if you list your method, very few will understand it. I have absolutely zero to gain by saying this. I have no interest in this bet style, at this point especially. I started following this thread for the same reason everybody else did ....looking for another " edge".  Talos has been a fun guy to follow, but he is not the be all and end all of players. He is inspirational with his encouragement to keep grinding, but beyond that, just another player putting his time in to make the money, just like you and me and many more people.
He has made us all better and opened our minds further, if he helped you in even a small way, that's awesome, be thankful, but I know and you know your skill was a cut above before this thread, and you would have gotten to where you are anyway.
There are a whole lotta ways to win at this game, and they are a lot less involved than this method. I say post your method in the same way he did.....give people clues that maybe Talos overlooked in his style of teaching.

Maybe start your own topic, and teach it from the ground up in your own way. Many guys here could use the help, I see more and more newbies following the top ten guys on this site, you being one of coarse.
Too many directions and nowhere to turn, so follow your conscience! In the end you will get crapped on no matter the path you choose.
ME, I BELIEVE PLAYING LONG CON SHOULD NOT BE SO INVOLVED! AND LONG CON IS THE SAFEST AND MOST CONSISTANT WAY TO MAKE THE MOOLAH!!

GOOD LUCK BROTHER~, The juice

Ps. As an after thought, team up with Jerome, he made Talos some good offers to partner up, maybe that would be a lucrative play on your part?

Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: BlueAngel on March 12, 2017, 07:48:16 PM
Juice, thanks for your recommendations, I'm keeping them in mind.

What dr Talos taught me so far is a new thinking, another way to perceive that by betting 3 EC's and a dozen is 66 numbers bet.
According this perception all bets count towards the same total which can be described as amount of times multiplied by amount of numbers equals with the total.
A new way to look in something familiar could grant you access to an ocean of possibilities...

PS--> me and Rinad post something here but Kav removed both of the posts to another topic.
At the new topic, I continue my post and Kav removed it again to another topic!
Here is the link: https://forum.roulette30.com/index.php?topic=1443.msg20699#msg20699 (https://forum.roulette30.com/index.php?topic=1443.msg20699#msg20699)
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: juice on March 12, 2017, 08:05:36 PM
B.A., I hear ya about the perception, I practice on my own home made layout, nothing to do with the actual felt layout.
I do this so that my mechanical rhythm is absolutely perfect when it comes to game time.
If I knew how to upload a photo on this site I would put up a screen shot of it.
The point being that my perception of the actual casino layout has completely changed and I do not get sucked into the losing flow that the casino wants you to.
Eloquently put about the ocean of possibilities. I will search for the posts that Kav moved.     Be Well!
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: BlueAngel on March 12, 2017, 09:18:18 PM
I don't know about you but if a Belgian (Jerome from twilight zone) would bring me a ''box of 49 chocolates'', it would be hard to turn it down...  ;)

If both parties are declaring a mutual interest to proceed, an arrangement would be established to bring the required capital by part A and part B uses it in the presence of part A in order to generate profit which is going to be splitted equally between the 2 parties (50%/50%).
No further obligation and/or responsibility could be claimed by part A against part B, part B is not obligated under any circumstances to reveal the method's instructions to part A.
By signing this document you accept all terms and conditions.

Date/Place/Signatures...

Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: jerome26b on March 12, 2017, 10:12:03 PM
@ Jerome & Reyth
If you eventually found something would you share it publicly, here on this thread?
In other words a HG for EVERYONE?!
i don't want to be so optimist, even more valuable information the last days i'm quite sure the way is still long and more than elese than the "core" idea is still to be found... i've one idea but unfortunately with my new job affectation and extra work in the learning process and preserve time with my family i've very few time last moment for roulette to simulate .And the only time is just in thinking and check/reply on this forum. But i know from the past that being too optimist is going to big desillusion/frustration.
I'm not forgetting than not so far than 10 days ago i lost consideration around the Talos system, suddenly it regains some enthousiasm but i prefer to be cautious and just take time to simulate and if i get something confirm it with different patterns. And if i'm convinced i have something i will writte personnaly to MrTalos to suggest the idea or a clue about the idea that he will understand probably. But like i told you i'm convinced the way is still long and if by any case my brain is not able to catch the idea as his brain was able to do it (by different thinking and so on probably i will never have it... i'm just honnest enough to admit it). It really seems from now that pure mathematical approach is not solving the dilema.

Jérôme
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: Reyth on March 13, 2017, 07:23:41 PM
(https://forum.roulette30.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fmemecrunch.com%2Fmeme%2FN9BL%2Fdanger-will-robinson%2Fimage.png%253Fw%253D400%2526c%253D1&hash=5443d4f392de68020717ee755220a667)

1 : 108 / 1  41 <=== turtle bet wins
10-DZ+DZ loss  38  1 : 132 / 2  40 <=== large bet loses
10-DZ+DZ loss  52  1 : 156 / 2  40 <=== turtle bet
10-DZ+DZ WIN  42  2 : 180 / 2  40 <=== turtle bet wins

Split: 1 ( 6 ) 1 ( 5 ) 1 ( 4 ) 1 ( 3 ) 2 ( 2 ) 3 ( 1 )
Street: 1 ( 6 ) 1 ( 5 ) 2 ( 4 ) 2 ( 3 ) 3 ( 2 ) 4 ( 1 )
Quad: 2 ( 6 ) 2 ( 5 ) 2 ( 4 ) 2 ( 3 ) 3 ( 2 ) 6 ( 1 )
DS: 2 ( 6 ) 2 ( 5 ) 3 ( 4 ) 4 ( 3 ) 5 ( 2 ) 9 ( 1 )
DS+Split: 3 / 1 ( 6 ) 3 / 1 ( 5 ) 3 / 1 ( 4 ) 4 / 1 ( 3 ) 6 / 2 ( 2 ) 11 / 3 ( 1 )
DS+Street: 3 / 1 ( 6 ) 3 / 1 ( 5 ) 3 / 2 ( 4 ) 4 / 2 ( 3 ) 6 / 3 ( 2 ) 11 / 5 ( 1 )
DS+Quad: 3 / 2 ( 6 ) 3 / 2 ( 5 ) 3 / 2 ( 4 ) 4 / 3 ( 3 ) 6 / 4 ( 2 ) 11 / 7 ( 1 )
DZ: 5 ( 6 ) 5 ( 5 ) 6 ( 4 ) 8 ( 3 ) 12 ( 2 ) 22 ( 1 )
EC: 9 ( 6 ) 10 ( 5 ) 12 ( 4 ) 16 ( 3 ) 23 ( 2 ) 44 ( 1 )
DZ+DZ 9 / 9 ( 6 ) 10 / 10 ( 5 ) 12 / 12 ( 4 ) 16 / 16 ( 3 ) 23 / 23 ( 2 ) 44 / 44 ( 1 )

10-DZ+DZ WIN  27  3 : 204 / 1  41 <=== large bet wins
9-EC loss  55  3 : 222 / 1  40 <=== ratio is 1, continue large betting
10-DZ+DZ WIN  45  4 : 246 / 1  40 <===
8-DZ loss  68  4 : 257 / 1  39 <===
8-DZ loss  103  4 : 268 / 1  38 <===
5-DS+Split loss  137  4 : 276 / 1  37 <===
4-DS loss  165  4 : 282 / 1  37
4-DS loss  199  4 : 288 / 1  36
4-DS loss  240  4 : 294 / 1  34 <=== MBA IS IGNORED
4-DS loss  289  4 : 300 / 2  33

8-DZ loss  314  4 : 311 / 2  32 <=== turtle bet
8-DZ WIN  260  5 : 322 / 1  34  <=== turtle bet wins, next bet is large
4-DS loss  313  5 : 328 / 1  32 <=== MBA IS IGNORED
4-DS loss  376  5 : 334 / 1  30 <===
4-DS loss  452  5 : 340 / 1  28 <===
4-DS loss  543  5 : 346 / 1  25 <===
4-DS loss  652  5 : 352 / 1  22
<===
4-DS WIN -1

Where lowering the selection below a DS allows for the bet sizing to remain low, limiting the bet selection to a DS causes tremendous and dangerous bet sizing!

The reason for this is that my bet sizing limitation is artificial; i.e. I am ignoring the MBA which is designed to cap the betting.

What this means is that Talos' DS bet selection limitation is natural meaning that the HNB ratio never actually requires a selection lower than a DS because the debt remains so low.

This is most assuredly what Talos' ultimate secret consists of.

Here are the principles involved:

1) All games must end when the HNB (hits:numbers bet) ratio reaches 1:60

1a) This means we MUST ALWAYS bet for the full debt amount if the current bet will yeild a 1:60 ratio when it wins <=== "WIN IMMINENT"

2) No bets may be placed for any selection lower than a DS

3) At no time may the debt reach 600 units (negotiable but if we do, we are probably wrong)

Possible Solutions

Always bet a DS if the ratio is "win imminent" i.e. the lowest possible bet sizing available

If the ratio is WI (win imminent) then always recalculate the bet selection based on "x" criteria so that it will be cost optimized (as opposed to "the largest possible selection the MBA will allow")

Turtle bet for more bets than just a single win

Turtle bet for all bets except WI bets <=== this may be it...
where the WI bet is capped at 5% of the bankroll to determine the bet selection?
This raising higher than normal for the WI bet (Coup Bet; CB) works very well but it
creates dangerously high betting amounts.

The key must be to keep the balance as low as possible for each of these bets which
which would require a lower bet than just the 6 divisor min bet at the current ratio.

I am going to try again using a min bet of a 6 divisor on a DS again for the turtle bet
AND employ the CB this time and see where it goes...

Below is an interesting example that I think points out a very convenient way to easily guestimate some of our bets.  It revolves around the Core Progression which is a series of seven, 6 point divisor bets.  This series of bets can be continued and easily memorized so that the Core Progression is a sort of "home base" as our games progress; i.e. each turtle bet will land somewhere in the Core Progression.

1 : 84 / 1  41 <=== turtle bet wins (Core Progression), next bet large
10-DZ+DZ loss  29  1 : 108 / 1  41 <=== large bet loses but ratio is 1, continue large
9-EC loss  59  1 : 126 / 2  40 <=== large bet loses, next bet turtle
10-DZ+DZ WIN  48  2 : 150 / 1  40 <=== turtle bet wins (Core Progresion), bet large
8-DZ loss  73  2 : 161 / 1  39 <=== large bet loses but ratio 1, bet large
10-DZ+DZ WIN  60  3 : 185 / 1  40 <===
8-DZ loss  91  3 : 196 / 1  39 <===

Ok so the FULL Core Progression is actually classified by bet type:

DZ+DZ

2   15
3   21
4   29
5   39
7   53
9   71
12  95

As long as our debt remains under 72 units, when we turtle bet, it will always be covered by this Core Progression.  Once our debt increases above 72 units, we will use the EC Core Progression...

These Core Progressions are EASILY memorized!!
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: jekhb76 on March 13, 2017, 09:11:20 PM
All good and healthy, but if someone could translate all those numbers etc in normal english and explain step by step what and how they play, maybe we all can understand what you all mean. this way it doesn't make any sense
Sorry i'm from Holland, maybe that's why I can't understand a thing of what's goin'n on  ;D 8)
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: BlueAngel on March 13, 2017, 09:38:33 PM
I've made some analysis and I didn't like what I found, I'm afraid Reyth you are right, the bet selection doesn't decrease any further than a single line.
So we want bets not to grow swiftly, bet selection to be minimum a line, to achieve overall profit within 1/66, yes I said 1/66 and not 1/60.

He uses 4  levels, the first level stops when line payout multiplied by required wins needs additional decrease of the bet selection and/or increase of the bet amount.
While on first level, bets never exceed the 1 unit increase, they could decrease more drastically though.

So it restarts but this time instead of 3 times an EC and 1 time a dozen, begins with 1 time an EC, 3 times a dozen and 2 times a line.
At this point, since the selection doesn't include quads,streets,splits and numbers, the running debt must be divided further, there's no other way to keep it within reasonable limits.
You can imagine that on the third level there won't be any EC bets and on the fourth will be only lines at the pole position...
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: Reyth on March 13, 2017, 09:47:35 PM
All good and healthy, but if someone could translate all those numbers etc in normal english and explain step by step what and how they play, maybe we all can understand what you all mean. this way it doesn't make any sense
Sorry i'm from Holland, maybe that's why I can't understand a thing of what's goin'n on  ;D 8)

No problem.  To help us out, simply ask specific questions if there is something you want to know. ;)

@Blue: Interesting, so kind of like a Pivot with 4 levels and a cutoff at a DS?
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: jerome26b on March 13, 2017, 09:51:14 PM
reyth, BA,

The work you do now and more specially the conclusion you get is what i achieved already few time ago (I'm saying that cause I think I worked some since September last year on drTalos clues so I did a lot of simulations and took some conclusions). The problem now is that you stick to pure mathematical considerations in my opinion. I'm saying that but I don't have the solution yet (if there is one...) but just be realistic a minute. If the solution was just mathematical many mathematical brains would already find it and would be rich now playing any casin in the world... so by the absurd the solution or the "core idea" is not in this way (partly I mean math is always useful). Funny thing is the fact I discover concept or systems that I found instinctively and have a name like the 'turtle' 😜
I will say to you but you discover by yourself now all pure mathematical schem is going to nowhere even using ration reduction raise etc etc....

Jerome
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: BlueAngel on March 13, 2017, 09:58:57 PM
Much different than a 'parachute' in my pov, uses only 18,12 or 6 numbers at a time, never more than 1 bet section simultaneously.
I don't like too much ongoing calculations, unless someone plays on RNG's, roulette-slots as I call them, there is no guarantee that you'd place correct bets on time when dealers and air-ball machines don't have to wait your calculations, neither the rest of the players on the same table.
As strange as it might sound I don't like it, certainly has strong assets but I'd prefer a 'target' instead.
Just my 5 cents.
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: jerome26b on March 14, 2017, 07:47:46 AM
The talos system should be quite easy to play and do not require deep calculation apparently.

Jerome.
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: Sheridan44 on March 14, 2017, 08:41:25 AM
I agree BA. I prefer taking the odds - not laying them. The greater the expanse you try to cover, especially with multiple bets, the greater the overhead. I would rather attack smaller areas and have the potential payout on my side. "Target and Parachute" - type methods allow you to do this (many times with only 1 unit at risk). If structured properly, they can give one multiple opportunities of exposure within an escalating payout wagering scheme.
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: jekhb76 on March 14, 2017, 09:43:11 AM
maybe Reyth, you can do a seasion on paper and guide us step by step what you are doin' thnx
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: Reyth on March 14, 2017, 09:58:22 AM
Ok I will go through a short session here, defining all terms and betting considerations each step of the way.

The output consists of:

[BET NAME] [BET RESULT] [DEBT] [HNB]/[RATIO] [MBA]

So that:

10-DZ+DZ WIN  26  2 : 204 / 2  41

Is a bet of 2 Dozen that won, leaving a debt of 26 units, a HNB of 2:204, a ratio of 2 and a MBA of 41.

HNB: Hit:Numbers Bet ratio.  This tracks how many total numbers we have placed bets on (i.e. a DZ is 12 numbers, an EC is 18) and the number of hits that we have obtained so far in our session.  This is important because we must end every session when the HNB reaches the equivalent of 1:60.

RATIO: This is the number of WINS left to the end of the session.  If this number is 1, the next bet must win back all of the debt plus at least 1 profit.  A common way of betting is to use the RATIO as the divisor but in the session below, we are using the Turtle bet at its lowest possible amount which is a DS with a divisor of 6 until the RATIO becomes 1.

MBA: Max Bet Allowed.  This is a betting cap that is a percentage of the total available bank balance.  In the short session below, the MBA is set at 3%.  If a bet is called for that is larger than the MBA, we must lower the bet selection until it at least equals the MBA.

Quote from: Official Talos Core Progression
LH(1)........-1.0:18
LH(2)........-3.0:36
----------------------
LH(6) DS(2).-11.0:60      <===> profit boundary (80.64%)
========================= <===> recovery begins
DZ(2) DZ(2) -15 0:84  Debt:9
DZ(3) DZ(3) -21 0:108 Debt:12
DZ(4) DZ(4) -29 0:132 Debt:17
DZ(5) DZ(5) -39 0:156 Debt:24
DZ(7) DZ(7) -53 0:180 Debt:32
DZ(9) DZ(9) -71 0:204 Debt:44
DZ(12) DZ(12) -95 0:228 Debt: 59

The above progression table is as such:

[BET NAME(AMOUNT)] [DEBT AFTER MISS] [RATIO AFTER MISS] [DEBT AFTER HIT]

So therefore:

1 : 180 / 3  41

represents the first hit after 180 numbers have been bet, checking the progresion chart, we see that this means we obtained the hit on the 5th bet of the recovery progression, which is 8 misses in a row and is:

DZ(7) DZ(7) -53 0:180 Debt:32

1 : 180 / 3  41
10-DZ+DZ WIN  26  2 : 204 / 2  41 <=== ratio=2, turtle bet DZ+DZ for 6 units
4-DS loss  28  2 : 210 / 2  41 <=== we should of bet DS and we correct that here
4-DS loss  30  2 : 216 / 2  41
4-DS loss  32  2 : 222 / 2  41
4-DS loss  34  2 : 228 / 2  40
4-DS WIN  24  3 : 234 / 1  41 <=== the ratio now becomes 1 & so we must bet to win

Split: 1 ( 6 ) 1 ( 5 ) 1 ( 4 ) 1 ( 3 ) 1 ( 2 ) 2 ( 1 )
Street: 1 ( 6 ) 1 ( 5 ) 1 ( 4 ) 1 ( 3 ) 2 ( 2 ) 3 ( 1 )
Quad: 1 ( 6 ) 1 ( 5 ) 1 ( 4 ) 2 ( 3 ) 2 ( 2 ) 4 ( 1 )
DS: 2 ( 6 ) 2 ( 5 ) 2 ( 4 ) 2 ( 3 ) 3 ( 2 ) 6 ( 1 )
DS+Split: 2 / 1 ( 6 ) 2 / 1 ( 5 ) 2 / 1 ( 4 ) 3 / 1 ( 3 ) 4 / 1 ( 2 ) 7 / 2 ( 1 )
DS+Street: 2 / 1 ( 6 ) 2 / 1 ( 5 ) 2 / 1 ( 4 ) 3 / 1 ( 3 ) 4 / 2 ( 2 ) 7 / 3 ( 1 )
DS+Quad: 2 / 1 ( 6 ) 2 / 1 ( 5 ) 2 / 2 ( 4 ) 3 / 2 ( 3 ) 4 / 2 ( 2 ) 7 / 4 ( 1 )
DZ: 3 ( 6 ) 3 ( 5 ) 4 ( 4 ) 5 ( 3 ) 7 ( 2 ) 13 ( 1 )
EC: 6 ( 6 ) 6 ( 5 ) 8 ( 4 ) 10 ( 3 ) 14 ( 2 ) 26 ( 1 )
DZ+DZ 6 / 6 ( 6 ) 6 / 6 ( 5 ) 8 / 8 ( 4 ) 10 / 10 ( 3 ) 14 / 14 ( 2 ) 26 / 26 ( 1 )

This is every available bet selection along with betting amounts using a divisor of 6 all the way down to 1.  It is formatted:

[BET NAME] [BET AMOUNT](/[BET AMOUNT]) [(DIVISOR)]

So that:

DZ+DZ 6 / 6 ( 6 ) 6 / 6 ( 5 ) 8 / 8 ( 4 ) 10 / 10 ( 3 ) 14 / 14 ( 2 ) 26 / 26 ( 1 )

Shows the ratios for a DZ+DZ bet where a ratio of 6 (min bet) is 6/6 and a ratio of 1 (max bet) is 26/26.

The bets continue below based on this output:

9-EC loss  50  3 : 252 / 2  40 <=== bet for the win (Coup Bet; CB) missed
4-DS loss  52  3 : 258 / 2  40 <=== turtle betting
4-DS loss  54  3 : 264 / 2  40 <===
4-DS WIN  39  4 : 270 / 1  40 <=== turtle bet wins, ratio=1, bet to win
8-DZ loss  60  4 : 281 / 1  40  <=== ratio remains at 1, bet to win
8-DZ WIN -1 <=== we win

Ok, that's everything but I am sure there will be questions.  You should be able to look back at any of my output and fully understand it now.

It may appear complicated and therefore seem completely impractical but we must remember the words of Dr. Talos:

Quote
CANON 47
Maybe I already said that, but the HG didn't come to me complete. The original idea has been tweaked to reach his actual shape. I admit that at the beginning was hard to manage, because of the notes and calculus I had to perform while playing, then I was able to simplify it.

So don't worry, once we get the kinks worked out, I will do a simplification work-around. ;)
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: Reyth on March 14, 2017, 02:57:46 PM
Here is a sample output from the latest method which is:

Turtle bet (min bet, 6 ratio) the DS until the ratio is 1, then follow the MBA at the highest bet selection for the CB.

1 : 108 / 1  41 <== hit obtained and ratio is 1, CB
10-DZ+DZ loss  38  1 : 132 / 2  40 <=== CB misses, rato=2, turtle bet
4-DS loss  40  1 : 138 / 2  40
4-DS loss  42  1 : 144 / 2  40
4-DS loss  44  1 : 150 / 2  40
4-DS loss  46  1 : 156 / 2  40
4-DS loss  48  1 : 162 / 2  40
4-DS loss  50  1 : 168 / 2  40
4-DS loss  52  1 : 174 / 2  40
4-DS loss  54  1 : 180 / 3  40
4-DS loss  57  1 : 186 / 3  40
4-DS loss  60  1 : 192 / 3  40
4-DS loss  63  1 : 198 / 3  40
4-DS loss  66  1 : 204 / 3  40
4-DS loss  69  1 : 210 / 3  39
4-DS WIN  54  2 : 216 / 2  40 <=== ratio 2, continue turtle betting
4-DS loss  57  2 : 222 / 2  40
4-DS loss  60  2 : 228 / 2  40
4-DS loss  63  2 : 234 / 2  40
4-DS loss  66  2 : 240 / 3  40
4-DS loss  69  2 : 246 / 3  39
4-DS loss  72  2 : 252 / 3  39
4-DS WIN  57  3 : 258 / 2  40 <=== ratio 2, continue turtle betting
4-DS loss  60  3 : 264 / 2  40
4-DS loss  63  3 : 270 / 2  40
4-DS loss  66  3 : 276 / 2  40
4-DS loss  69  3 : 282 / 2  39
4-DS loss  72  3 : 288 / 2  39
4-DS WIN  57  4 : 294 / 1  40 <=== ratio=1, CB
8-DZ loss  87  4 : 305 / 2  39 <=== CB misses, ratio=2, turtle bet
4-DS loss  91  4 : 311 / 2  39
4-DS loss  95  4 : 317 / 2  39
4-DS loss  99  4 : 323 / 2  39
4-DS loss  103  4 : 329 / 2  38
4-DS WIN  83  5 : 335 / 1  39 <=== now CB

The sessions tend to be longer but the debt is always at its lowest possible.

Here are two more Turtle Method sessions:

1 : 156 / 2  41
4-DS loss  26  1 : 162 / 2  41
4-DS WIN  16  2 : 168 / 1  41
10-DZ+DZ loss  50  2 : 192 / 2  40
4-DS loss  52  2 : 198 / 2  40
4-DS loss  54  2 : 204 / 2  40
4-DS loss  57  2 : 210 / 2  40
4-DS loss  60  2 : 216 / 2  40
4-DS loss  63  2 : 222 / 2  40
4-DS loss  66  2 : 228 / 2  40
4-DS loss  69  2 : 234 / 2  39
4-DS loss  72  2 : 240 / 3  39
4-DS loss  75  2 : 246 / 3  39
4-DS loss  78  2 : 252 / 3  39
4-DS loss  81  2 : 258 / 3  39
4-DS loss  84  2 : 264 / 3  39
4-DS loss  88  2 : 270 / 3  39
4-DS WIN  68  3 : 276 / 2  39
4-DS loss  71  3 : 282 / 2  39
4-DS loss  74  3 : 288 / 2  39
4-DS loss  77  3 : 294 / 2  39
4-DS loss  80  3 : 300 / 3  39
4-DS loss  83  3 : 306 / 3  39
4-DS loss  86  3 : 312 / 3  39
4-DS loss  90  3 : 318 / 3  39
4-DS loss  94  3 : 324 / 3  39
4-DS loss  98  3 : 330 / 3  39
4-DS loss  102  3 : 336 / 3  38
4-DS loss  106  3 : 342 / 3  38
4-DS WIN  86  4 : 348 / 2  39
4-DS loss  90  4 : 354 / 2  39
4-DS loss  94  4 : 360 / 3  39
4-DS loss  98  4 : 366 / 3  39
4-DS loss  102  4 : 372 / 3  38
4-DS loss  106  4 : 378 / 3  38
4-DS WIN  86  5 : 384 / 2  39
4-DS loss  90  5 : 390 / 2  39
4-DS loss  94  5 : 396 / 2  39
4-DS loss  98  5 : 402 / 2  39
4-DS loss  102  5 : 408 / 2  38
4-DS loss  106  5 : 414 / 2  38
4-DS loss  110  5 : 420 / 3  38
4-DS loss  114  5 : 426 / 3  38
4-DS loss  119  5 : 432 / 3  38
4-DS WIN  94  6 : 438 / 2  39
4-DS loss  98  6 : 444 / 2  39
4-DS loss  102  6 : 450 / 2  38
4-DS WIN  82  7 : 456 / 1  39

The above sounds more like a Talos session with 55 spins and a maximum exposure of only 119 units.

1 : 108 / 1  41
10-DZ+DZ loss  38  1 : 132 / 2  40
4-DS loss  40  1 : 138 / 2  40
4-DS loss  42  1 : 144 / 2  40
4-DS loss  44  1 : 150 / 2  40
4-DS loss  46  1 : 156 / 2  40
4-DS WIN  36  2 : 162 / 1  40
8-DZ loss  55  2 : 173 / 1  40
8-DZ loss  84  2 : 184 / 2  39
4-DS loss  88  2 : 190 / 2  39
4-DS loss  92  2 : 196 / 2  39
4-DS WIN  72  3 : 202 / 1  39
8-DZ WIN -1

Using a series of DZ for the CB is nice because 2 of them equals a DZ+DZ bet.
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: jerome26b on March 14, 2017, 07:24:47 PM
reyth,

What you're doing is exactly what I simulates already quite extensively. the problem arise when a ds is missing for 30 spins ... I tried with 2 streets as well. How do you select the ds to play ? Folowing the last outcome ?

Jerome.
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: Reyth on March 14, 2017, 08:19:22 PM
1) Our bet selection doesn't matter BUT of course we all have our methods, right?  I always play farthest back, using the Dozens to focus on the farthest back one and then I look in the history for which DS appears first and I bet the opposite.  Of course none of that matters.

2) In the case of a sleeping DS, we continue to bet the full 6 divisor until it hits.  The worst case scenario is actually 84 spins.  My theory is that the DS is going to be the least expensive bet for the numbers and so there is no avoiding it.

The only alternative is to min bet the highest possible selection but that quickly spirals out of control and definitely is not the method that Talos is using.

We also know that he is not using a "secret selection method" but is only using the progression to survive and of couruse I am hoping that min-betting the DS until the ratio is 1, is the secret twist.

Its also possible that there is some kind of "middle ground" attack that he can use, say every time the ratio increases?  I mean I dunno...  Maybe we can adjust our CB's more than just min betting the whole way to 1 ratio?

I am going to assume that a DS missing so much that it eclipses 1400 units when using a full 6-point divisor is rare enough that we win more than we lose.

Again the reason we win is because we minimize our costs as much as possible and take large successive shots at profit at the appropriate times.

I wish he bet a Quad, it would make our job easier.
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: Rinad on March 14, 2017, 08:59:43 PM

does'nt Talos mentioned his first 2 bets are even bets ?
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: jerome26b on March 14, 2017, 09:03:14 PM
Yes he's playing one unit h/l and 2 units h/l respectively first and second bet
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: Reyth on March 14, 2017, 09:09:12 PM

Here's where I am at.  It will mean alot for me to see this go back over 4140.  You can see on Day 8 where I started to double my stakes.  Reaching 4900 again is crucial to my success.

One thing that is important regarding the interpretation of this graph is that the downswing from Day 8 is with the stakes doubled and so it represents twice the amount we would normally see.  The downswing from Day 11 is a normal swing for a single unit.

I would really like to see a repeat of Days 1-8, it will represent profit of close to 20000 units.
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: TERMINATOR on March 14, 2017, 09:12:33 PM
Thanks for posting the details of your games, Reyth. It clarifies some of the questions I had about your earlier posts! I'll try to play along and hopefully contribute some suggestions. This seems like a complicated system, though. But you've come such a long way. You have done excellent work! I'm sure there's a solution somewhere.
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: jerome26b on March 14, 2017, 09:14:03 PM
Reyth,

I'm focused studying a little bit his 84 spins game but some things are not clear for me maybe you can figure out ? Or talos clarify himself even better ? I cleared out the redundant numbers and keep his remarks with some annotations of me below :

the sequence was
18
23
4
24
28
0
15
30
20
30
15
00
25
5
30
35
15
18
32
23

At this point I had played a total of 258 numbers with just 3 hits

15
34
11
35
24
2
13
36
29
21
21
2
24
9
8
24
11
14
1
26
21
8
14
11
9

now the number played are 438, with 3 more hits, the exposition is at 119. At this point I have ten more spins to get a hit to close the game. Unfortunately didn't happen.
(Until here I'm ok)
11
1
5
17
10
16
11
22
33
33

More 168 number played, and few more hits. I am now out of 140 units.
(What this section refer up or below ? Not clear cause you said you didn't achieved hit in the next 10 spins upside so if you got it cause it's 10 spins the game should be over right ? So my assumption it's the number played in section below or both of them)

16
27
00
34
20
9
36
22
5
32
36
6
4
6

Exposition at 162 (up section ?)

3
10
23
14
19
35
6
13
35
00
9
29
17
25
21
21

the repetition of 21 closes the game for me.
I played 724 numbers to hit 11 numbers. I was at the third step of my recovery, and I have four levels of it (I never reached the fourth so far).
In the third level, in the moment I hit, I had like 20 more spins to get one hit, so I was pretty comfortable that my game was near to the end.

There are tons of informations here, for good ears...

(Is it too much to ask you where your different steps of progressions start and close ?)

Thanks.

Jerome

Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: Reyth on March 14, 2017, 09:22:28 PM
0    C

168    ÷
6
28    =
0    T

Obviously this is a pure DS bet just like we are doing!  Of course it could also be something of a combination of a DZ & DS (commonly I CB at DZ after turtle betting a DS).

The levels is now the key to his twist!  We have to figure out what exactly he is "leveling" about...
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: jerome26b on March 14, 2017, 09:46:45 PM
0    C

168    ÷
6
28    =
0    T

Obviously this is a pure DS bet just like we are doing!  Of course it could also be something of a combination of a DZ & DS (commonly I CB at DZ after turtle betting a DS).

The levels is now the key to his twist!  We have to figure out what exactly he is "leveling" about...
28 ? Where did you see 28 but yes sure I did some calculations and it's 24-12-6 mix. I did it already for months in fact but I was never able to build a manageable progression around this.

Jerome

Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: Reyth on March 14, 2017, 09:52:00 PM
Its the number 168 that is divided evenly by 6 (which also means 12 and 24, yes).

We need to put pencil to paper on the increase in the debt over those 168 numbers, what is it?
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: BlueAngel on March 14, 2017, 09:59:42 PM
Quote
28 ? Where did you see 28

''168 more numbers...'' 168/6 line = 28

I think he doesn't use double dozen, in fact he never uses 2 bet sections simultaneously.
Each level begins with different bets, but only EC's, dozens/columns and lines are being used.
''Turtle'' bet is nice approach but I don't think is the answer because in some situations could take you forever to recover.
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: jerome26b on March 14, 2017, 10:00:49 PM
Its the number 168 that is divided evenly by 6 (which also means 12 and 24, yes).

We need to put pencil to paper on the increase in the debt over those 168 numbers, what is it?

That's my question the 168 doesn't seems related to the 10 spins where he get no hit right ? But to the following sections.
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: jerome26b on March 14, 2017, 10:04:56 PM
Quote
28 ? Where did you see 28
''168 more numbers...'' 168/6 line = 28I think he doesn't use double dozen, in fact he never uses 2 bet sections simultaneously.Each level begins with different bets, but only EC's, dozens/columns and lines are being used.''Turtle'' bet is nice approach but I don't think is the answer because in some situations could take you forever to recover.

And how do you explain some games finish at spin 3-4 directly ? So outside 1:60 ratio. For me I got the idea and maybe it could be the talos idea ? You see what I'm thinking about ??

BA i agree with you he never use Double dz bet I understood that already weeks ago now... his particular bet start at 3rd spin and is the key .... I have some ideas and you ?
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: BlueAngel on March 14, 2017, 10:09:41 PM
Its the number 168 that is divided evenly by 6 (which also means 12 and 24, yes).

We need to put pencil to paper on the increase in the debt over those 168 numbers, what is it?

That's my question the 168 doesn't seems related to the 10 spins where he get no hit right ? But to the following sections.

I'm glad someone had the same frustration as I did on the specific point.
However, I've figured out that this is because he progressed to the second level (before the notation), thus didn't keep betting a line but first an EC, then dozen, later line again.
On second level he doesn't repeat the same sequence of bets as on level 1, bets 1 time EC, 3 times dozen and 2 times a line.
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: BlueAngel on March 14, 2017, 10:14:35 PM
First level is 3 times EC and a dozen, I've told you before but you don't pay attention, the ratio should be 1/66 according my calculations instead of 1/60.

Don't consider every cannon on its face value...
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: jerome26b on March 14, 2017, 10:17:29 PM
Its the number 168 that is divided evenly by 6 (which also means 12 and 24, yes).

We need to put pencil to paper on the increase in the debt over those 168 numbers, what is it?

That's my question the 168 doesn't seems related to the 10 spins where he get no hit right ? But to the following sections.

I'm glad someone had the same frustration as I did on the specific point.
However, I've figured out that this is because he progressed to the second level (before the notation), thus didn't keep betting a line but first an EC, then dozen, later line again.
On second level he doesn't repeat the same sequence of bets as on level 1, bets 1 time EC, 3 times dozen and 2 times a line.

Sure all divisors of 3/6/9/12 can give this number at the end. It's helping guessing but not so useful at the end to find the solution and when he's raising/reducing. The ds can be played as 2 streets as well with more flexibility in fact. I did many simulations on this way last November already in fact but failled at a moment too. but the way I was working was just ratio and bet and not steps like it seems in talos system (4 steps with boundaries) I've the felling in his last bets of the 84 spins he could even play just splits ... could explain the 17 win as well easily in fact. 17 win is split. 5 is ds. 11 is street. No ??? ? It seems obvious for me.

Jerome.
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: jerome26b on March 14, 2017, 10:20:13 PM
First level is 3 times EC and a dozen, I've told you before but you don't pay attention, the ratio should be 1/66 according my calculations instead of 1/60.

Don't consider every cannon on its face value...

I don't agree at 10 spins no hit he was 228 numbers played so 2 first hits are 2 EC like he revealed h/l and then 8 times 24 numbers (but surely not double dz in my opinion)

Jerome
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: BlueAngel on March 14, 2017, 10:40:20 PM
He bets every spin (no virtual bets)
He doesn't parlay
He doesn't ''turtle'' bet
He doesn't bet less than 6 numbers
He doesn't use 6 point divisor

18,12 and 6 are multiples of six, in combination with 1/66 ratio, which is the divisor, he needs 1 out of 4 EC's or 1 out of 5 dozens or 1 out of 11 lines to win.
Therefore six point divisor is misleading because ratio fluctuates and so does the divisor which in turn changes the amounts and the selection.
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: jerome26b on March 14, 2017, 10:49:38 PM
He bets every spin (no virtual bets)
He doesn't parlay
He doesn't ''turtle'' bet
He doesn't bet less than 6 numbers
He doesn't use 6 point divisor

18,12 and 6 are multiples of six, in combination with 1/66 ratio, which is the divisor, he needs 1 out of 4 EC's or 1 out of 5 dozens or 1 out of 11 lines to win.
Therefore six point divisor is misleading because ratio fluctuates and so does the divisor which in turn changes the amounts and the selection.
But there's something he never said he's not doing guess what ?

Jerome
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: Reyth on March 14, 2017, 10:57:27 PM
Of course he uses a 6 point divisor its the Core Progression.  Turtle bet is a 6 point divisor to minimize the bets and there is no reason he isn't doing that necessarily either.

To my mind he has already confirmed that he uses DZ+DZ when he said that "I certainly got his [initial betting]".  Of course it was really Jerry that got it and I simply stumbled over and confirmed it.

Ok so we all know that he doesn't bet lower than a DS and even if he ONLY min bets (6 divisor) that DS, eventually we hit a worst sequence when our CB's miss successively which drives the debt up and then we are stuck at ratio=1 and having to bet massively to close the game.

The only solution I can some up with is that he "fudges" the 1:60 ratio when the DS CB is too high and instead min bets an EC (which will always be less than a 1 ratio DS).  When he gets a hit there, he takes a late shot at profit so that way way he is "roughly" at 1:60?

And I dunno, he can always go back and forth between these two to gain extra profit at the higher selection and then shoot to end it at the DS?

That's the only way he survives if he doesn't bet less than a DS.  He would be forced to bet a Quad if the DS min bet is the lowest min bet but he never saw that?
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: TERMINATOR on March 14, 2017, 11:49:28 PM
Can someone post a link about the Turtle strategy? The search feature is not working for me. Thanks.
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: BlueAngel on March 14, 2017, 11:55:00 PM

Let's see step by step how my assumption goes:

the sequence was:

18   only for observation
23   bet low with 1 unit (same as last) -1  18 numbers
4     bet high with 2 units            -3          36 numbers
24   bet low with 3 units             -6          54 numbers
28   bet 2nd dozen with 3 units   -9          66 numbers   expectation increased to 2 wins
0     bet high with 5 units           -14         84 numbers
15   bet 3rd dozen with 4 units   -18         96 numbers
30   bet 2nd dozen with 5 units   -23        108 numbers
20   bet 3rd dozen with 6 units   -29         120 numbers
30   bet 4th line with 3 units       -32        126 numbers
15   bet 5th line with 4 units       -36        132 numbers  expectation increased to 3 wins
00   bet 2nd dozen with 6 units   -42        144 numbers
25   bet 2nd dozen with 7 units   -49        156 numbers
5     bet 5th line with 4 units       -53        162 numbers
30   bet 1st line with 4 units       -57        168 numbers
35   bet 5th line with 4 units       -61        174 numbers
15   bet 6th line with 5 units       -66        180 numbers
18   bet 3rd line with 5 units       -41        186 numbers   expectation decreased to 2 wins
32   bet 3rd line with 5 units       -46        192 numbers
23   bet 6th line with 5 units       -51        198 numbers   expectation increased to 3 wins

At this point I had played a total of 258 numbers with just 3 hits (obviously I'm wrong)

15  bet 4th line with 4 units       -55        204 numbers
34  bet 3rd line with 4 units       -59        210 numbers
11  bet 6th line with 4 units       -63        216 numbers
35  bet 2nd line with 5 units      -68        222 numbers
24  bet 6th line with 5 units       -73        228 numbers
2    bet 4th line with 5 units       -78        234 numbers
13  bet 1st line with 6 units       -84        240 numbers
36  bet 2nd line with 6 units      -90        246 numbers
29  bet 6th line with 6 units       -96        252 numbers
21  bet 5th line with 7 units      -103       258 numbers
21  bet 4th line with 7 units       -68       264 numbers   expectation decreased to 2 wins
2    bet 4th line with 7 units       -75       270 numbers   expectation increased to 3 wins
24  bet 1st line with 5 units       -80        276 numbers
9    bet 4th line with 6 units       -86       282 numbers
8    bet 2nd line with 6 units      -56       288 numbers   expectation decreased to 2 wins
24  bet 2nd line with 6 units      -62       294 numbers
11  bet 4th line with 7 units       -69       300 numbers
14  bet 2nd line with 7 units      -76       306 numbers
1    bet 3rd line with 8 units       -84      312 numbers
26  bet 1st line with 9 units       -93       318 numbers
21  bet 5th line with 10 units    -103      324 numbers
8    bet 4th line with 11 units    -114      330 numbers
14  bet 2nd line with 12 units    -126     336 numbers   expectation increased to 3 wins
11  bet 3rd line with 9 units      -135     342 numbers
9    bet 2nd line with 9 units      -90      348 numbers   expectation decreased to 2 wins

now the number played are 438, with 3 more hits, the exposition is at 119. At this point I have ten more spins to get a hit to close the game. Unfortunately didn't happen.
(Until here I'm ok)( but I'm not:-)
11  bet 2nd line with 9 units      -45      354 numbers  expectation decreased to 1 win
1    bet 2nd line with 9 units      -54      360 numbers
5    bet 1st line with 11 units      +1      366 numbers to 5 wins ratio

Obviously I've done something wrong because dr Talos and me don't conclude in the same outcome.

17
10
16
11
22
33
33

More 168 number played, and few more hits. I am now out of 140 units.
(What this section refer up or below ? Not clear cause you said you didn't achieved hit in the next 10 spins upside so if you got it cause it's 10 spins the game should be over right ? So my assumption it's the number played in section below or both of them)

16
27
00
34
20
9
36
22
5
32
36
6
4
6

Exposition at 162 (up section ?)

3
10
23
14
19
35
6
13
35
00
9
29
17
25
21
21

the repetition of 21 closes the game for me.
I played 724 numbers to hit 11 numbers. I was at the third step of my recovery, and I have four levels of it (I never reached the fourth so far).
In the third level, in the moment I hit, I had like 20 more spins to get one hit
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: Reyth on March 14, 2017, 11:58:48 PM
Can someone post a link about the Turtle strategy? The search feature is not working for me. Thanks.

https://forum.roulette30.com/index.php?topic=1252.msg20551#msg20551

He has got to be doing some kind of min betting like this.  There is no other way for his numbers to be as low as they are without betting lower than a DS.
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: scepticus on March 15, 2017, 12:17:36 AM

As a matter of interest Reyth . If you check Blue Angels post above against the first of the Nine Blocks you may be surprised at the number of " winning bets " on the 3rd and / or 4th spins . No progression needed.
Pure coincidence , of course  !
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: rouletteman on March 15, 2017, 01:08:20 AM

He has got to be doing some kind of min betting like this.  There is no other way for his numbers to be as low as they are without betting lower than a DS.

No, this is not right. I'll post tomorrow, Too much to type on a phone. I have the first and last two done. Here's a hint, last section has 30 bets. 728-606, What's left is not large enough for DS.  While his play style is not set numbers, there is a system. This thread is one of the best I've seen on roulette.

Rouletteman
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: Reyth on March 15, 2017, 09:42:46 AM
Wow ok!

My latest thoughts are that he is constantly counting the "spins left" and so his betting pattern must include this.

Also that his levels could be based on bankroll because the "spins left" feature would also always include cost.

So:

Level 1: 0-100 (core progresion)
Level 2:100-350
Level 3: 350-700
Level 4: 700-1400

This way his bet selection is constant fluctuating based on the BANKROLL and not the HNB & MBA.

This would be a new approach...
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: rouletteman on March 15, 2017, 01:19:45 PM
Wow ok!

My latest thoughts are that he is constantly counting the "spins left" and so his betting pattern must include this.

Also that his levels could be based on bankroll because the "spins left" feature would also always include cost.

This way his bet selection is constant fluctuating based on the BANKROLL and not the HNB & MBA.

This would be a new approach...

Hi Reyth,

You have been doing a great job,  coming at this with math and formula. I come at it like a gambler, looking to make money.  A combo of both is needed.  I would have never even looked at the betting scheme, if not for your long analysis and work in the 33 pages of this thread.

Let's look at the final section:

At this point he has played 438 and 168 numbers. That's a total of 606 numbers played.  He ends up playing 724 numbers.  724 - 606 = 118

(note: just posted this and it appeared very, small, I re-edited it.  I hope if works)
16  (4 numbers) (no win)
27 (4 numbers) (no win)
00 (4 numbers) (no win)
34 (3 numbers) (no win)
20 (4 numbers) (no win)
9   (4 numbers) (no win)
36 (4 numbers) (no win)
22 (4 numbers) (no win)
5   (4 numbers) (no win)
32 (4 numbers) (no win)
36 (4 numbers) (win)
6 (4 numbers) (no win)
4 (4 numbers) (no win)
6 (4 numbers) (win)

Exposition at 162 (up section ?)
3    (4 numbers) (no win)
10  (4 numbers) (no win)
23  (4 numbers) (no win)
14  (4 numbers) (no win)
19  (4 numbers) (no win)
35  (4 numbers) (no win)
6    (4 numbers) (no win)
13  (4 numbers) (no win)
35  (4 numbers) (win)
00  (4 numbers) (no win)
9    (3 numbers) (no win)
29  (4 numbers) (no win)
17  (4 numbers) (no win)
25  (4 numbers) (no win)
21  (4 numbers) (no win)
21  (4 numbers) (win)
Total is now 724 numbers.

Now look at the winners.  Do you see what he's doing? It's the key to above this sections.  He might be down to a certain bet (amount of numbers - key key key - hint hint hint)but, if you grow this bet to more numbers, he bets the same way except the first three bets.

A lot of fun, piecing this puzzle together.
Rouletteman
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: Reyth on March 15, 2017, 01:41:58 PM
Well let's remember that Jerry paved the way and contributed a great deal as well.

Why does it always say "3 numbers" after the 00?

OMGOSH!  HE IS PLAYING THE LAST 4 NUMBERS!

Wow!  Great catch RM!

So is he playing 4 Quads??

It makes no sense to play 4 DS...

I think ideal would be 4 splits.

So its gotta be either splits or quads...
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: rouletteman on March 15, 2017, 02:12:01 PM
Well let's remember that Jerry paved the way and contributed a great deal as well.

Why does it always say "3 numbers" after the 00?

OMGOSH!  HE IS PLAYING THE LAST 4 NUMBERS!

Wow!  Great catch RM!

Here is a mathematical gem for you.  If he is playing a DS, the last 4 numbers represents 24 total numbers bet which is a double dozen.

So is he playing 4 Quads??

It makes no sense to play 4 DS...

Yes all contributed but those crazy thing like:

4-DS loss  40  1 : 138 / 2  40
4-DS loss  42  1 : 144 / 2  40
4-DS loss  44  1 : 150 / 2  40
4-DS loss  46  1 : 156 / 2  40

made me take notice.  I had no idea what the above meant.  Looked like gibberish till you explained it.  I love seeing how others play.  It's always interesting and nice to have various methods.

Now, don't jump to conclusions about quads or double streets or playing the last four all the time.  I said he plays the same way, not the exact numbers.

Rouletteman

Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: Reyth on March 15, 2017, 02:30:32 PM
Right, I was just thinking that this "last four numbers" method is a level and apparently it is Level 3.

Level 2 is initial recovery which uses much larger selections.

Its just so weird though how he can say "I don't play anything less than a DS" and do it with a straight face, knowing that we will all misunderstand him when he actually means 6 total numbers bet; if he is using Quads, that's 16 numbers and if he is using Splits, that's 8 numbers.

Whoah.  I just realized he could also be playing STREETS!  That might actually be the best way to bet the last four numbers and it would tally with his numbers bet report because it is 12 numbers bet!

Ok, I am going to definitely call it right now:

He is using Streets to bet the last 4 numbers!
Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: TERMINATOR on March 15, 2017, 03:16:34 PM
I think you are on to something, rouletteman. That makes perfect sense! I don't think I would have ever caught on that he's making only 4 bets per turn (at that stage).

I think we can rule out that it is the last 4 numbers, or ANY 4 Straight-up numbers, though. Remember, Mr. Talso said, "I never play straight numbers. The more you can group your bets the lower your balance will be."

Also, as a refresher:

CANON 20
I do not play even chances.

So, it does seem like he is playing either 4 Quads or 4 Splits to me. I wonder if he is using his own version of Eddy's "4 Wonder system" with his 4 bets? LOL.

Title: Re: Talos_Dump
Post by: Reyth on March 15, 2017, 03:49:34 PM
Level 1 -- The 'boring" part where we play L/H twice and 24 numbers for the third bet.
Level 2 -- Initial recovery consisting of DZ+DZ, EC and DZ bets.
Level 3 -- Bet 4 Streets following the last 4 numbers.
Level 4 -- Unknown & unseen.

Ok got it.  Going to give this a shot.

Latest System Modification

If the 1 Ratio STREETS bet calls for a greater a