Author Topic: Can a car ron on water ?  (Read 1055 times)

Harryj

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Can a car ron on water ?
« on: May 18, 2016, 07:29:38 PM »
[POST DELETED BY THE BLACK OPS COOPERATIVE]



Whoah!  Thankfully I took a screenshot! *\:D/*
« Last Edit: May 19, 2016, 12:30:19 PM by Reyth »


 

kris

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Re: Can a car ron on water ?
« Reply #1 on: May 18, 2016, 07:31:14 PM »
Do you really beleve that stupid thing? You must be crazy then...
 

Jesper

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Re: Can a car ron on water ?
« Reply #2 on: May 19, 2016, 02:00:36 AM »
It is not possible. Of course a car can run on hydrogen which can be made from water, but never can a car supply it by its own power, it would be a perepetum mobile, as the water could circulate.
 

Reyth

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Re: Can a car ron on water ?
« Reply #3 on: May 19, 2016, 12:33:11 PM »
I am going to say that the universe is balanced in such a manner that it will simply not be "easy" to accomplish goals that will otherwise add to our "convenience" and because water is so plentiful, that would mean that it simply won't work.

I of course hope it works and would be willing to try and make it work. :D
 

Harryj

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Re: Can a car ron on water ?
« Reply #4 on: May 19, 2016, 02:10:32 PM »
   Here is a simple experiment that any of you can try.

    Flatten an aluminium foil baking tray. Cut into 7 oblongs about 2" x 3". these form the electrode plates.  Separate the 7 plates using double sided tape. The 7 plates will now form a block separated about 1/16th of an inch.  Attach leads to each end plate. The  5 in the middle are neutral. Drop the assembled block into a glass jar full of water, to which has been added a spoonful of baking soda(Bi-carbonate of soda)
      Connect the leads to a normal car battery. One to positive, one to negative. The water will immediately start to go milky. Bubble will form on the surface of the water. These bubbles can be popped with a flame.  A faint steam can be observed above the jar. Do not collect  this gas as it is quite explosive. A small amount will shatter a glass jar or shred a plastic bottle.

    The gas is of course Hydroxy. A mixture of Hydrogen and oxygen. The reason that there is so much, is because the current is forced through the neutral electrodes. Each gives off hydrogen on one side and oxygen on the other. This process is useless in the lab or for producing hydrogen as the gases are mixed and difficult to separate. In fact they seem anxious to return to their water state. Which they do with a spectacular release of heat.

     Harry
 
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Jesper

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Re: Can a car ron on water ?
« Reply #5 on: May 19, 2016, 05:04:26 PM »
   Here is a simple experiment that any of you can try.

    Flatten an aluminium foil baking tray. Cut into 7 oblongs about 2" x 3". these form the electrode plates.  Separate the 7 plates using double sided tape. The 7 plates will now form a block separated about 1/16th of an inch.  Attach leads to each end plate. The  5 in the middle are neutral. Drop the assembled block into a glass jar full of water, to which has been added a spoonful of baking soda(Bi-carbonate of soda)
      Connect the leads to a normal car battery. One to positive, one to negative. The water will immediately start to go milky. Bubble will form on the surface of the water. These bubbles can be popped with a flame.  A faint steam can be observed above the jar. Do not collect  this gas as it is quite explosive. A small amount will shatter a glass jar or shred a plastic bottle.

    The gas is of course Hydroxy. A mixture of Hydrogen and oxygen. The reason that there is so much, is because the current is forced through the neutral electrodes. Each gives off hydrogen on one side and oxygen on the other. This process is useless in the lab or for producing hydrogen as the gases are mixed and difficult to separate. In fact they seem anxious to return to their water state. Which they do with a spectacular release of heat.

     Harry

I have done that and got 900 centigrade in an explosive manner. We could drive a car, but it is not water it is aluminium water battery, all the power belongs to the metal. We will see cars running on metal oxygen battery in short time. Already some companies have cars running this system.
 
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Reyth

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Re: Can a car ron on water ?
« Reply #6 on: May 19, 2016, 06:02:48 PM »
Wow!  What are the consumption costs & manufacturing processes required to enable & maintain functioning?
 

Jesper

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Re: Can a car ron on water ?
« Reply #7 on: May 19, 2016, 06:20:07 PM »
Wow!  What are the consumption costs & manufacturing processes required to enable & maintain functioning?

Aluminium has a lot of power, an aluminium air battery could take a car 60 miles, battery weight lower than lithium, which is not enough for the demand, the worlds sources is just not enough. There are prototypes of Al-batteries for cars in Israel. They can not be charged, the aluminium plates is consumed, and the other pole air is everywhere  the metal can be replaced in a minute.  The oxidant aluminium can be recycled. It takes some electric power to recycle. That power can be from environment friendly sources like geothermal from Iceland, a industry which has potential there.
« Last Edit: May 19, 2016, 06:22:11 PM by Jesper »
 

Reyth

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Re: Can a car ron on water ?
« Reply #8 on: May 19, 2016, 08:45:00 PM »
Very interesting!  Kind of like solar though, can be useful but ultimately just doesn't quite make it for the demands of modern society huh?
 

Jesper

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Re: Can a car ron on water ?
« Reply #9 on: May 20, 2016, 07:54:19 AM »
Very interesting!  Kind of like solar though, can be useful but ultimately just doesn't quite make it for the demands of modern society huh?

You may know the solar is very powerful, it takes 15 minutes for the Sun to supply (of that which reach the Earth) all the energy we current use. The Sun hits the world with a power equal to 240 000 nuke plants.
 
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Harryj

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Re: Can a car ron on water ?
« Reply #10 on: May 20, 2016, 11:32:29 AM »
Wow!  What are the consumption costs & manufacturing processes required to enable & maintain functioning?

 Reyth, simple systems can be made quite cheaply but they are only suitable for supplementing the normal use of petrol. Hydrogen burns much hotter than petrol vapour. More of the petrol is consumed during combustion. Increasing the power and reducing the "WASTED" hydrocarbons.
      Gas mileage of up to 200 mpg have been claimed, but around 90 mpg seems more realistic. Even overpowered gas guzzling SUV's have shown a 50% documented improvement.

 Jesper, you raise a couple of valid points. Aluminium corrodes away vey quickly and is useless for long term use. High quality stainless steel works better.
    If the current is too high or the electrolyte too strong the cell turns into a heater which could reach amazing temperatures if it didn't explode first. In a working system amperage, voltage and electrolyte must be carefully controlled.

    The main argument against the technology revolves around "OVERUNITY". The current required to separate the gases cannot exceed the power supplied when they combine again. I think that is the 3rd law of thermodynamics. Don't hold me to that, my last Physics lesson was over 65 years ago !
    What this overlooks is that every substance contains huge amounts of energy that only require the right key to release. While Hydrogen and oxygen are stable as water when they recombine huge quantities of heat are released. Far more than the amount of current required to separate them.

    The main problem for this technology is CONTROL. idling, cruising accelerating and hill climbing require vastly different amounts of fuel. If you produce enough for extreme use there is much too much for idling etc. You really don't want quantities of explosive gas floating around. Especially if you are a smoker !

    Harry
 
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Reyth

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Re: Can a car ron on water ?
« Reply #11 on: May 20, 2016, 12:00:52 PM »
Awesome concept about how the effects are greater than the sum of the parts! :D
 

Jesper

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Re: Can a car ron on water ?
« Reply #12 on: May 21, 2016, 02:19:12 PM »
The true is the cost of the splitting water are higher than the output, that's allways so, or we already have "Free Energy".    Metal oxide batteries are used, mostly they have zinc. Oxygen is everywhere so that we need not carry.

Aluminium with its 4 valence keep a lot of energy, that's the reason it takes a lot to manufacture it The reason it is not explosive in normal conditions, is the thin oxide  is very tight. That's why if we dip it in NA-OH solutions the reaction is explosive.

Aluminium is part of some rocketfuel and explosives.  Using it in a air battery is not dangerous, the electrolyte can be seawater. 

You can easy make a battery using seawater aluminium foil and some active coal as oxygen catcher from air. It is some  videos on YOUTUBE describing them, but most are overstatement, the technology is still not mature.

Aluminium is far easier to store transport than hydrogen.  Aluminium is a common metal on the earth. hard to
extract due to the energy demand.

 
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Harryj

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Re: Can a car ron on water ?
« Reply #13 on: May 21, 2016, 09:55:37 PM »
   Jesper you are right. There is a great deal of power locked up in Aluminium. There are a number of attemps to make practical use of it.The main problem is the Aluminium continues to react even when no current is passed. In other words you can't turn it off !

    One guy in Cuba claims to have solved the problem by grinding the aluminium up and making it into a  slurry. which is then Electrolysed. The slurry is simply replaced when it is used up.

    I know that Aluminium/air batteries are slatted to replace Lithium in the future.

    Harry