### Author Topic: Alternative to the Marty!  (Read 8686 times)

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#### Jesper

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##### Alternative to the Marty!
« on: April 25, 2016, 11:16:59 AM »
This is probably not an invention of mine,
as near all progressions possible are invented
200 years ago, and I think many systems and
progressions are reinvented many times.
How many times has not for example
Martingale been reinvented.

I will show a bit of play and later try to explain
the progression. It contains negative
progressions and some parlays.

Bankroll 5 Euro (500 units).
Allways on black.

bet 1  #4 W +1
bet 2  #12 L -1
bet 1  #27 L -2
bet 2  #12 L -4
bet 2  #7  L -6
bet 4  #13 W -2
bet 4  #35 W +2 *
bet 1  #9  L +1
bet 1  #16 L 0
bet 2  #2  W +2
bet 2  #29 W +4 *
bet 1  #35 W +5
bet 2  #15 W +7 *
bet 1  #11 W +8
bet 2  #23 L +6
bet 2  #2  W +8
bet 2  #17 W +10 *
bet 1  #12 L +9
bet 1  #8  W +10
bet 2  #36 L +8
bet 2  #33 W +10
bet 2  #7  L +8
bet 2  #2  W +10
bet 2  #13 W +12 *
bet 1  #28 W +13
bet 2  #24 W +15 *
bet 1  #6  W +16
bet 2  #13 W +18 *
bet 1  #11 W +19
bet 2  #29 W +21 *
bet 1  #32 L +20
bet 1  #30 L +19
bet 2  #17 W +21
bet 2  #4  W +22 *
bet 1  #23 L +21
bet 1  #27 L +20
bet 2  #7  L +18
bet 2  #15 W +20 *

This was played today on a 1 cent
table, and went too good to show
it proper, what happend in heavier cases.

If first lose go to next level.
If first win, we bet 2 units (parlay).
If we win start over.
If we lose the bet we bet 1 unit again.
If lose go to next level.
If win start over.
The level three and later is a bit different.
Each level is a Martingale step.
So we bet 2 units twice.
If both wins we start over.
If the first lose we bet the same and parlay it.
If the parlay works out start over.
If the first win and second lose it is cancel
of W and L so we retry. If two loss i a row
We try a parlay, and if it wins start over.
If the parlay is a loss.
we double up and play the same way.
In short we needs two wins to get 2 units forward.
I use to stop at level 16 units.
Try to recover starting again with 2 units.
Recapitulation:
1 and parlay
1 and parlay
If the bets of 1 unit fails.
rise as martingale to 2 units.
This must be won twice, if first lose parlay it.
If we win the first we stay until we have to L or two W.
If two W start over and if two L next martingale step.

The progression can tank, but it is a better than
a martingale, a martingale gives 1 unit a successful trial,
this gives 2 units a successfull trial, but we must win twice.
It grows slower in betsize. That we have to win
twice helps us if on a level first bet wins
and second lose, we can redo it. And the parlay
can save two losses or the first loss.
« Last Edit: April 25, 2016, 11:26:09 AM by Jesper »

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#### Reyth

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##### Re: Alternative to the Marty!
« Reply #1 on: April 25, 2016, 12:00:08 PM »
I think this is similar to the Carsch Star:

http://forum.roulette30.com/index.php?topic=476.msg5421#msg5421

I never did work out how to survive the worst...

#### Jesper

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##### Re: Alternative to the Marty!
« Reply #2 on: April 25, 2016, 02:05:22 PM »
No it is better then a Marty, but still it has high risk. Near all EC-system tanks in time, do not need "long run". The reason it exist in prison, is that EC bet have high expose to the unfair odds.

However I test EC system, and with test I do not mean simulation, enough spins and it must tank.
But can I win some on it before it tanks or it is rejected, and it can take time, even Woodoo-system can win.  Even on a Wheel with fair odds it is hard "in the long run" In a fair 50% chance the player who has the most money wins "in the long run".
It is a spreed of 1-20000 at BV Zero-Wheel and 1 to 4000 at the NoZero. Here we can last longer, but it is not impossible we reach the max.

I am up a bit in my trail, today it Went up 381 units which in money is Euro 3.81.  Total it is more than 5000 units and about the same number of spins. I can not chip up, as just a bad run can be too costly. It is still a test. A betting system which last for many spins, gives very small winnings, and the turnover is large which is food for the HE. They use to get harder and harder to use, like they worn out.

#### Reyth

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##### Re: Alternative to the Marty!
« Reply #3 on: April 25, 2016, 03:32:39 PM »
No it is better then a Marty, but still it has high risk. Near all EC-system tanks in time, do not need "long run". The reason it exist in prison, is that EC bet have high expose to the unfair odds.

See that was my theory too!  But others on this site have said it exists because of gambling commission enforcement policies..??
« Last Edit: April 25, 2016, 03:34:33 PM by Reyth »

#### Jesper

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##### Re: Alternative to the Marty!
« Reply #4 on: April 25, 2016, 04:11:51 PM »
No it is better then a Marty, but still it has high risk. Near all EC-system tanks in time, do not need "long run". The reason it exist in prison, is that EC bet have high expose to the unfair odds.

See that was my theory too!  But others on this site have said it exists because of gambling commission enforcement policies..??

May be and they may have just this reason, the EC is high exposed to the egde.

#### kav

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##### Re: Alternative to the Marty!
« Reply #5 on: April 25, 2016, 05:17:25 PM »
Jesper this seems very interesting, but (as always) I'm confused how it is played. Can you please explain the rules again?

« Last Edit: April 25, 2016, 05:53:27 PM by Reyth »

#### Jesper

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##### Re: Alternative to the Marty!
« Reply #6 on: April 25, 2016, 07:54:25 PM »
I think this is similar to the Carsch Star:

http://forum.roulette30.com/index.php?topic=476.msg5421#msg5421

I never did work out how to survive the worst...

It is as I can see  the same progression as I "founds out", in the post you have linked to, I have not seen it before my post. I have been working with ideas for EC and then mix negative and positive progressions. If we extend a marty, it can not resolve in one bet. This is the logical outcome if we start to do it, so that's the reason they become the same. Reinvention is common, and I think somebody have done it in the 19th century first time. It needs just a pen and paper, not any computer prossession to solve such a problem. It gives more step and lower bet, to the price of two hits, but 2 unit winning as well.

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#### scepticus

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##### Re: Alternative to the Marty!
« Reply #7 on: April 25, 2016, 08:46:13 PM »
No it is better then a Marty, but still it has high risk. Near all EC-system tanks in time, do not need "long run". The reason it exist in prison, is that EC bet have high expose to the unfair odds.

See that was my theory too!  But others on this site have said it exists because of gambling commission enforcement policies..??

I know no "others " who have claimed that Reyth. I seem to be the only one who said that.
What I said was that it applies IN THE U.K. because that was a ruling by the Gaming Board and was passed into U.K.  Law that it was a condition of getting a licence to operate a casino. Does anyone in other jurisdictions  know the date when this rebate was introduced in their country ? And Why ?
I  questioned the normal view that this gives a reduction from2.7% to 1.37%. to E.C/ bettors when zero occurs.
I think the reduction can be explained by the "fact" (?) that the odds against the E.C. bettor is 1/19
(  5.26% ) and so the rebate is justified .
I  agree with Jespers view that the E.C. is highly exposed.

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#### Reyth

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##### Re: Alternative to the Marty!
« Reply #8 on: April 25, 2016, 10:29:48 PM »
Great so we all agree (whew).

#### Jesper

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##### Re: Alternative to the Marty!
« Reply #9 on: April 26, 2016, 08:14:51 AM »
No it is better then a Marty, but still it has high risk. Near all EC-system tanks in time, do not need "long run". The reason it exist in prison, is that EC bet have high expose to the unfair odds.

See that was my theory too!  But others on this site have said it exists because of gambling commission enforcement policies..??

I know no "others " who have claimed that Reyth. I seem to be the only one who said that.
What I said was that it applies IN THE U.K. because that was a ruling by the Gaming Board and was passed into U.K.  Law that it was a condition of getting a licence to operate a casino. Does anyone in other jurisdictions  know the date when this rebate was introduced in their country ? And Why ?
I  questioned the normal view that this gives a reduction from2.7% to 1.37%. to E.C/ bettors when zero occurs.
I think the reduction can be explained by the "fact" (?) that the odds against the E.C. bettor is 1/19
(  5.26% ) and so the rebate is justified .
I  agree with Jespers view that the E.C. is highly exposed.

Casinos has not been in Sweden in modern time more than at most 15 years, the half back on zero on an EC was from start. Nobody can get a license it is run by the state.

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#### scepticus

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##### Re: Alternative to the Marty!
« Reply #10 on: April 26, 2016, 01:13:43 PM »
Thanks for that Jesper.
Perhaps the Swedish  authorities FOLLOWED the UK model ?
Does anyone KNOW  of any casinos that gave the rebate BEFORE the UK ?
Did the Blanc brothers , for instance ?
Anyway, I am arguing  against the " accepted  Wisdom " that with the rebate the  odds against the EV is  1.35 %.

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#### Jesper

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##### Re: Alternative to the Marty!
« Reply #11 on: April 26, 2016, 01:28:26 PM »
Thanks for that Jesper.
Perhaps the Swedish  authorities FOLLOWED the UK model ?
Does anyone KNOW  of any casinos that gave the rebate BEFORE the UK ?
Did the Blanc brothers , for instance ?
Anyway, I am arguing  against the " accepted  Wisdom " that with the rebate the  odds against the EV is  1.35 %.

The seems to me  it is a French  name of it.

#### scepticus

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##### Re: Alternative to the Marty!
« Reply #12 on: April 26, 2016, 11:29:45 PM »
Thanks for that Jesper.
Perhaps the Swedish  authorities FOLLOWED the UK model ?
Does anyone KNOW  of any casinos that gave the rebate BEFORE the UK ?
Did the Blanc brothers , for instance ?
Anyway, I am arguing  against the " accepted  Wisdom " that with the rebate the  odds against the EV is  1.35 %.

The seems to me  it is a French  name of it.

Dobbelsteen often speaks of " la partage" others " en prison" .
Whatever you call it , it  still means " rebate ".

#### Harryj

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##### Re: Alternative to the Marty!
« Reply #13 on: April 28, 2016, 08:56:03 PM »
As far as I know this was first introduced at Monte Carlo. In the beginning it was just the "en prison" rule. The stake was moved and returned to the player if the next spin was a win. I have no idea when "la partage" became an alternative. It seems to have been used in France before the British Gaming Commission came into being.

Harry

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#### scepticus

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##### Re: Alternative to the Marty!
« Reply #14 on: April 28, 2016, 09:59:23 PM »
As far as I know this was first introduced at Monte Carlo. In the beginning it was just the "en prison" rule. The stake was moved and returned to the player if the next spin was a win. I have no idea when "la partage" became an alternative. It seems to have been used in France before the British Gaming Commission came into being.

Harry

Yes, Harry, en prison is different from la partage..
Perhaps it operated in other jurisdictions  before being adopted in the U.K..
My main point is that the disadvantage in EC  is not , as generally thought , 1.35 but twice that .

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