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Author Topic: Should AP/Math's Guys Treat System Players Better?  (Read 2623 times)

GameNeverOver

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Should AP/Math's Guys Treat System Players Better?
« on: June 24, 2015, 07:16:08 PM »
I have decided to take  Harryj 's advice and stop responding to your posts..

Finally!


 

GameNeverOver

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Re: Should AP/Math's Guys Treat System Players Better?
« Reply #1 on: June 24, 2015, 11:16:23 PM »
I'm trying GNO . I'm trying  !

There is one little trick which might help you:
instead reading the posts, read the names of the posters. If you notice some of the AP (GF) parrots, just skip it and keep looking for some of the reasonable guys which are actually contributing to this forum and all the members and visitors on it.

Its working for me. It will work for you too. :)
 

Reyth

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Re: Dealer's signature
« Reply #2 on: June 25, 2015, 01:49:39 AM »
LOL.  Ok you guys!  AP players and math's guys are our fellow roulette brothers too! 

Look I know how very annoying it is because they ignore evidence of actual roulette event odds even when proven to them but we need to try and provide them a friendly space as much as we can.

Granted, it would be much easier if they weren't so dismissive and aggressive but we need to be nice to them as fellow members of this forum.

I hope the tone of this post is coming out the way it should and everyone gets my point. ; )

I may need to moderate my post... O_o
« Last Edit: June 25, 2015, 01:53:49 AM by Reyth »
 

scepticus

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Re: Dealer's signature
« Reply #3 on: June 25, 2015, 02:06:34 AM »
Why should we be " nice " to APs , reyth. They don't engage in discussion. They only reiterate - ad nauseum - their fundamentalist view  and, in true fundamentalist tradition , sneeringly dismissive  of any view other than their own . I agree with GNO. - ignore them . Let them talk among themselves .
 

Mike

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Re: Should AP/Math's Guys Treat System Players Better?
« Reply #4 on: June 25, 2015, 06:27:41 AM »
scepticus,

You may be referring to Real, but I DO engage in discussion, and without personal attacks. The issue here is not the "AP guys" versus the "system guys" but the fundamental concepts of probability and uncertainty, which ARE difficult for most people to grasp.

@ Reyth,

Quote
Look I know how very annoying it is because they ignore evidence of actual roulette event odds even when proven to them

As far as I can see, all you have proved is the law of large numbers. In your view, does it give an advantage?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law_of_large_numbers

Quote
The LLN is important because it "guarantees" stable long-term results for the averages of some random events. For example, while a casino may lose money in a single spin of the roulette wheel, its earnings will tend towards a predictable percentage over a large number of spins. Any winning streak by a player will eventually be overcome by the parameters of the game. It is important to remember that the LLN only applies (as the name indicates) when a large number of observations are considered. There is no principle that a small number of observations will coincide with the expected value or that a streak of one value will immediately be "balanced" by the others (see the gambler's fallacy).

By the way, I looked at your code but it wasn't easy to read; an explanation in plain english would be better.

[Reyth Note: Please respond regarding equal distribution in the thread where it is discussed so I may respond to you without derailing this thread topic.  Thanks!]
« Last Edit: June 25, 2015, 11:33:55 AM by Reyth »
 

GameNeverOver

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Re: Should AP/Math's Guys Treat System Players Better?
« Reply #5 on: June 25, 2015, 11:08:30 AM »
Granted, it would be much easier if they weren't so dismissive and aggressive but we need to be nice to them as fellow members of this forum.

Real few times (while I was still reading his posts) mentioned how they (the AP players) treat system players on AP forums (hint: they are constantly insulting and banning the system players). Than "ignoring" is the least aggressive treatment they can get here on this forum, which is created and mostly visited by system players.

Sorry Reyth, but I can't treat like human someone which treats me like dumb animal. And ignoring is the best I can do for that someone.
 

Reyth

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Re: Should AP/Math's Guys Treat System Players Better?
« Reply #6 on: June 25, 2015, 11:31:37 AM »
We don't want to hold bad behavior as the comparative standard.  The goal is to provide a forum space that is as fair as possible to all members without sacrificing the general theme of system play.  It is a delicate balance.

This forum should be for all (honest) roulette players to share their ideas freely.

We should be willing to try and be fair and straightforward with AP/Math's players even if they might not be willing to do so with us.

This forum will try and foster open discussion of these topics as much as is possible.
« Last Edit: June 25, 2015, 11:38:01 AM by Reyth »
 

Jesper

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Re: Should AP/Math's Guys Treat System Players Better?
« Reply #7 on: June 25, 2015, 11:41:53 AM »
The dispute will never be solved!
The main problem is the rigid discussions, not only here.
Post a roulette system at a poker forum, and claim it Win!!!
There you can get the answers some AP, copy and past.
 
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Reyth

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Re: Should AP/Math's Guys Treat System Players Better?
« Reply #8 on: June 25, 2015, 11:49:24 AM »
I think there is a view where system play & the math's view co-exist; I mean its true about the odds of a single spin, its just that's not the full picture.  So with the math's view in mind, a system that has a better chance of a win in a single spin will produce less variance because there is a stronger baseline to work with.  That is an idea that should be present in a system designer's/player's mind.
 

GameNeverOver

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Re: Should AP/Math's Guys Treat System Players Better?
« Reply #9 on: June 25, 2015, 11:57:07 AM »
We should be willing to try and be fair and straightforward with AP/Math's players even if they might not be willing to do so with us.

@Reyth
In few posts of yours you've mentioned God as the 1.0 Almighty Programmer and from this I came to the conclusion that you, just like me, are big believer in this ultimate force / unlimited intelligence. Should we wait God to punish all those APes that regularly spit on us the SPes? I know that this is something that is happening for real (widely known as KARMA) but sometimes God uses us, the ordinary people like tools to do something - to reward or punish someone. And in this particular case these God's tools are you and Kav. Still not realized your major purpose here on this nanocosmos called Roulette30Forum? :)
 

Reyth

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Re: Should AP/Math's Guys Treat System Players Better?
« Reply #10 on: June 25, 2015, 12:09:06 PM »
Kav is a very fair and open minded guy.  I think its kewl that he wants to be fair and open with everyone.  Its not easy to adopt this view because it tends to go against our instincts, especially if we feel we have been unjustly treated.

Yes, I believe in God.  Interestingly enough, Kav's philosophy about this forum and God's precept/command of "love your enemies, do good to those that hate you" does tend to coincide (in practical application)  here. : )
« Last Edit: June 25, 2015, 04:14:27 PM by Reyth »
 

GameNeverOver

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Re: Should AP/Math's Guys Treat System Players Better?
« Reply #11 on: June 25, 2015, 12:22:19 PM »
Yes, I believe in God.  Interestingly enough, Kav's philosophy about this forum and God's precept/command of "love your enemies, do good to those that hate you" do tend to coincide (in practical application)  here. : )

But what if by doing good to those that have done bad to us we are doing bad to those that have done good to us?
Where is the justice here?

Whenever this force named God appears somewhere, its due to bring justice. So, if someone states that he is following and working according God's principles but if in the same time that someone is not working to bring justice in the area in which he is working, then he is just pretending to be following God's principles..

And pretending is bad, very bad. It is better to be bad and show it then to pretend you are good when actually you are not.

And one last thing: the power to bring justice is not given randomly.