Royal Panda roulette

Author Topic: Human Brain VS Computer  (Read 2899 times)

Real

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Human Brain VS Computer
« on: May 02, 2015, 05:30:19 PM »
http://www.roulette30.com/2015/03/human-brain-vs-computer.html

This article, above, is from Kav's blog.

I rather like this article. (except for the psi part)

Related to the article: Currently, there are a series of great poker players going up against the latest and greatest poker computer.  The computer "learns" the players style and competes against them.  Last check, the players were up around 60k.  It appears as though the human mind is still the "winner".

Who's got the upper hand? Poker computer program pits man against machine

http://www.post-gazette.com/news/education/2015/04/24/CMU-program-pits-machine-vs-pros-in-complex-poker-challenge-at-Rivers-Casino/stories/201504240169

-Real
« Last Edit: May 02, 2015, 06:14:30 PM by Real »


 

scepticus

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Re: Human Brain VS Computer
« Reply #1 on: May 02, 2015, 07:21:16 PM »
Who would be the winner over ,say, 100,000/ 200 / 000 "trials " ?
A computer may be able to give an answer quicker than the human brain but  can it give an answer not contained within whatever is programmed  within it ?
I don't think so . The computer was invented by the human brain but the human brain was not invented by a computer.
 

kav

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Re: Human Brain VS Computer
« Reply #2 on: May 02, 2015, 08:09:03 PM »
I think Picasso put it greatly:
"Computers are not very important. They only give answers."
Because every new idea begins with a question. With exploration.
(see for example this "reverse thinking question")

Is the article, about the human brain, Romn writes about imagination and the "servo-mechanisms" of the brain:
  • "The target or "answer" is not known and the objective is to discover or locate it"
in comparison to the
  • "the target or "answer" is known and the objective is to reach it or accomplish it".
 

Birima

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Re: Human Brain VS Computer
« Reply #3 on: May 02, 2015, 10:08:16 PM »
A related story is IBM's Deep Blue computer versus world chess champion Garry Kasparov.

Game over (2003)
Quote
Garry Kasparov is arguably the greatest chess player who has ever lived. In 1997 he played a chess match against IBM's computer Deep Blue. Kasparov lost the match. This film shows the match and the events surrounding it from Kasparov's perspective. It delves into the psychological aspects of the game, paranoia surrounding it and suspicions that have arisen around IBM's true tactics. It consists of interviews with Kasparov, his manager, chess experts, and members of the IBM Deep Blue team, as well as original footage of the match itself.
 

dobbelsteen

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Re: Human Brain VS Computer
« Reply #4 on: May 03, 2015, 07:50:34 AM »
A Dutch team of the university has developed  a software program for the pokergame. The difference with chess is, that poker has also a chance facet. In most of the games the computer defeat the player.
I am convinched that it is possible to develop a roulette bot that can beat the roulette. A chess match or a pokersession are short run events with fixed rules. A roulette event is a long run event.
 

Dane

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Re: Human Brain VS Computer
« Reply #5 on: May 03, 2015, 08:23:19 AM »
A related story is IBM's Deep Blue computer versus world chess champion Garry Kasparov.

Game over (2003)
Quote
Garry Kasparov is arguably the greatest chess player who has ever lived. In 1997 he played a chess match against IBM's computer Deep Blue. Kasparov lost the match. This film shows the match and the events surrounding it from Kasparov's perspective. It delves into the psychological aspects of the game, paranoia surrounding it and suspicions that have arisen around IBM's true tactics. It consists of interviews with Kasparov, his manager, chess experts, and members of the IBM Deep Blue team, as well as original footage of the match itself.

Paranoia seems to be linked to chess. Apart from the fact that the masters are facing much stress and strain, it cannot be denied that chess basicly is "FIGHT OR FLIGHT".
The opposite would be  something like this:               "STAY AND PLAY".

To dobbelsteen: Is a roulette event really a long run event?
It is up to us, I would say. We can stop whenever we want to,
but the human nervous system is not capable of participating in thousands of spins in a row.
Not even if the nervous system might have reached a state of "Stay and play"!
 

dobbelsteen

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Re: Human Brain VS Computer
« Reply #6 on: May 03, 2015, 12:04:25 PM »
Dane your interpretation of the long run in this context is wrong. A computer roulette bot should run for large samples.
A human player plays always short run sessions.

I am also a chessplayer. I do not agree your conclusion. High excellent humans are mostly extraordinary.
 

Dane

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Re: Human Brain VS Computer
« Reply #7 on: May 03, 2015, 12:41:47 PM »
Dane your interpretation of the long run in this context is wrong. A computer roulette bot should run for large samples.
A human player plays always short run sessions.

I am also a chessplayer. I do not agree your conclusion. High excellent humans are mostly extraordinary.

I am a chess player too!
In my teens I imagined that excellent chess players must be extraordinay. Almost superhumans!
The conclusions that I draw today are far from that. As you might have guessed, my feelings for chess are not entirely positive. I know one chess player who is rather paraniod. Of course you could argue that he had paranoid tendencies before entering the game of chess.
Once I imagined that great chess players might be gifted with musical talents too.
The erly master Philidor was also a composer, you see!
And the almost mathematical structure in some music may remind us of some squares.
And the Black and White Things in my piano might be compared to the 64 Black and White fields, LOL! Seems to be a romantic dream.
There is more to life than chess. Although the excellent Garry Kasparow in one of his books has tried to show how life imitates chess, there might be something that TRANSCENDS that. Some holistic insight that might include all of our brains and not just the mathematical side. Many of the chess players I know, however, are not ready to accept that.

« Last Edit: May 03, 2015, 12:43:28 PM by Dane »
 

dobbelsteen

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Re: Human Brain VS Computer
« Reply #8 on: May 04, 2015, 10:56:30 AM »
My experience as a chessplayer is also my ideas about playing roulette. Roulette is agame and everybody can learn  how to play roulette. Learn the rules, read books, play a lot of games.Your ELO depends on your talent and skill.

The computer is a tool to increase your knowledge and skill