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Author Topic: Reverse Labouchere - best sequence?  (Read 5673 times)

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falkor

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Reverse Labouchere - best sequence?
« on: September 25, 2014, 10:59:35 AM »
What's a good sequence for consistently winning 1,000 in 50-150 spins?
In the book Thirteen Against the Bank - I've not read it properly - but from flicking through it it says that they only had a bankroll of 90 and used a sequence of 1,2,3,4; however, this sequence doesn't perform well for me during simulations.
Can anyone suggest a better sequence other than 1,2,3,4? And is there any theory behind choosing a sequence?
Also, is anyone able to understand how the Stop Loss works on this page?
reverse-labouchere-stop-loss.html
I can't quite make sense of the paragraph beginning with Where is the stop-loss handler? I don't understand Mr Oops' reference to 1 and 0? Why should that session end? I don't get it.


 

kav

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Re: Reverse Labouchere - best sequence?
« Reply #1 on: September 26, 2014, 06:26:05 AM »
Hello falkor and welcome to our forum.

Thanks for asking.
You are referring to this article:
Labouchere with stop loss.

Some clarifications.

1. Bankroll
In strategies like these the bankroll should be pretty big. And it was BIG in Thirteen Against the Bank. The reason is that you expect MANY little losses aiming for one BIG win, and the little losses can add up very quickly. So the total bankroll needed is much more than 90 units. Unless you are referring to session bankroll, that is the money you are prepared to lose in one single visit to the casino. Yeah that could be 90 units. But overall you may lose much more than 90 units till you reach the BIG win.

2. Starting sequence
Yes, the initial sequence does play a role, but not a huge role. 1,2,3,4 is a good starting sequence for reverse Labouchere. Sometimes I prefer an even lighter sequence like 1,1,2,3. The theory behind starting lines that the higher the numbers the more aggressive the attack is. Every times you lose the attack you practically lose the sum of the numbers of the starting sequence. A sequence with high or many numbers requires ultimately a bigger bankroll than a sequence with lower or fewer numbers.
Check also these threads for an ingenious use of the starting sequence for the NORMAL Labouchere:
http://rouletteforum.roulette30.com/index.php/topic,8.0.html
http://rouletteforum.roulette30.com/index.php/topic,9.0.html

3. "consistently winning 1,000 in 50-150 spins"
Forget about it. There is no way to this. The bad word in this phrase is "consistently". There is no such consistency, especially in systems like the reverse Labouchere. Be prepared to take risks. I have prepared a video about this: http://youtu.be/NIIelgAU7f8
Anyway, if you want big profits in relatively few numbers of spins I would suggest the original reverse Labouchere as presented here: http://www.roulette30.com/2010/06/labouchere-progression-in-depth.html
instead of the Labouchere with stop loss, which is an ecxellent but milder approach.

I admit that there are so many variations presented in the Reverse Labouchere article that they can blow your mind. In my next reply to this thread I will describe and explain more clearly one of these methods, which I prefer.
(TO BE CONTINUED)
 

kav

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Reverse Labouchere with stop loss made simple
« Reply #2 on: September 26, 2014, 08:13:49 AM »
I will try to explain one version of Reverse Labouchere with stop loss. MY version, based on the Bar principle explained in the main article.

Let's say we start with the sequence 1,2,3,4.
We put a bar in the middle:
1,2 | 3,4

We bet the sum of the 2 left numbers of the two parts. We bet 2+4=6
If we win we add the win to the right end of the right part:
1,2 | 3,4,6
We bet the sum of the 2 left numbers of the two parts. We bet 2+6=8
If we win we add the win to the right end of the right part:
1,2 | 3,4,6,8
We bet the sum of the 2 left numbers of the two parts. We bet 2+8=10
If we win we add the win to the right end of the right part:
1,2 | 3,4,6,8,10
Now, we move the Bar one step to the right! We do that every third consecutive win!

1,2, 3 | 4,6,8,10
And we bet 3+10=13
If we win the line becomes
1,2, 3 | 4,6,8,10,13
Next bet: 3+13=16
etc.

You need to understand that:
When any of the two parts get written off the attack ends. This means for example that from this point 1,2, 3 | 4,6,8,10 after 3 consecutive  losses we will reach this point: - | 4 Here we end the attck. We take 4 units, but we have initially invested 1+2+3+4=10 units, so we end the attack with -6 units. This may seem absurd but it isn't. First you must understand that in reverse Labouchere the norm is that you lose your attack most of the time anyway. Without the stop loss bar, every lost session would have cost you 10 units, but thanks to the Bar we lost only 6 units in this lost attack. Secondly the benefits of the Bar are more prominent after having a great start with many wins and then facing losses. In such a case the traditional reverse Labouchere would wipe out all your units to a loss of 10 units. In the stop loss Bar version you can end the same attack with PROFIT. This is because the two parts of your sequence would not be equal in lenght.
Let's say you have a great start in your attack and you have reached this point:
1,2,3,4| 6,8,10,13,16,19
In this case if we face 4 consecitive losses our sequence becomes - | 6,8, and we end the attack with 14 units. 14- our initial 10 units = 4 units profit.
Quote
In original reverse Labouchere you either win really BIG (very rarely) or you lose the sum of your starting sequence (very often). The stopp loss bar version gives you the opportunity to finish an attack with some units, even if you have not reached the BIG win. This does not mean that the original Rev Labby is a worse progression. It is just more aggressive; it is an all or nothing system.
« Last Edit: September 28, 2014, 10:38:47 AM by kav »
 

falkor

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Re: Reverse Labouchere - best sequence?
« Reply #3 on: September 26, 2014, 09:18:49 PM »
Many thanks indeed for your reply, kav!! I will need to take some time to read your information and references--cheers!
 

mathemagician

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Re: Reverse Labouchere - best sequence?
« Reply #4 on: October 07, 2014, 11:48:23 AM »

Hi

I read "13 against the bank" and programmed the system following all the even chances.

Unfortunately, it didn't work! It took too long for anything to happen.

As at the time this book was written online casinos hadn't been dreamt of.
This book inspired me to program its system into a computer program for live online casinos.
I don't altogether trust the RNG casinos but live online casinos are different as several players can log on separately and collude. In fact if you're adept you don't even need partners. You can even play for 10p stakes at live casinos online! (something you can't do in real casinos)
The thing I overlooked was how long it to win big time, I couldn't expect my customers to play for days on end!
So theoretically there's no need to go to France or any bricks and mortar casino. My conclusion was that while it worked sometimes I never got as far as breaking the bank but my program, Roulette Key Gold, often made a profit with its system, the key is knowing when to stop. It is no longer included in Roulette Key Gold

A book I can recommend, mainly for statistics, is Roulette For The Millions, Patrick O'Neil-Dunne, Regercy, Illinois, 1971

Like Norman Leighs book it gives an account of a team of players at a casino. However, Dunnes book is certified as being a genuine record of 30 days continuous play. Although his team made a profit it contains no sure-fire systems , probably because there aren't any ! The author puts his profits down to sensible play including not chasing losses.

Another good book is The Winning Rules or Roulette Practically Considered by Sperienza - 1905.
Admittedly I do have a financial interest in this book but you don't have to buy it from me, and I have used  it for the basis of my own book "Online Roulette The Winning Rules"
 

Real

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Re: Reverse Labouchere - best sequence?
« Reply #5 on: October 09, 2014, 12:00:42 PM »
Quote
Let's say we start with the sequence 1,2,3,4.We put a bar in the middle:1,2 | 3,4We bet the sum of the 2 left numbers of the two parts. We bet 2+4=6If we win we add the win to the right end of the right part:1,2 | 3,4,6We bet the sum of the 2 left numbers of the two parts. We bet 2+6=8
If we win we add the win to the right end of the right part:1,2 | 3,4,6,8We bet the sum of the 2 left numbers of the two parts. We bet 2+8=10
If we win we add the win to the right end of the right part:1,2 | 3,4,6,8,10
Now, we move the Bar one step to the right! We do that every third consecutive win!1,2, 3 | 4,6,8,10And we bet 3+10=13 If we win the line becomes 1,2, 3 | 4,6,8,10,13
Next bet: 3+13=16
etc.-Kav


Clever! Touche.
« Last Edit: October 09, 2014, 12:04:08 PM by Real »
 

albalaha

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Re: Reverse Labouchere - best sequence?
« Reply #6 on: October 19, 2014, 03:00:51 PM »
Reverse Labouchere works on a hypothetical (it may come in real time too) condition where an EC bet will start to hit out of proportion for quite a while (wins should never go below 2/3rd of spins played). In such cases, following reverse labouchere, one may expect to break the bank.

For example, if we get a situation of wins and losses in an EC like: WWWWLWLWWWLWWWLWLLWWWWLLWWWLWWWWWLWWL
It will win till the max table limit of any ordinary table.
         In the book, the author claimed to be accompanied by 12 players all of whom were assigned with 1 EC (red,black, even,odd, high,low) on two different table. He had  french roulette where with "la partage" rule, if zero hits, they were to get half of the losses on their respective ECs, that makes it even interesting and safe. All 12 players kept playing all ECs and whoever got a streak won enough to compensate for the losses that every other player lost.
              Reverse labouchere is a rider positive progression that utilizes winning streaks to win huge.
However, if you try to simulate the same strategy, trying to bet all ECs together, it will normally fail to win anything.
 

daveylibra

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Re: Reverse Labouchere - best sequence?
« Reply #7 on: October 19, 2014, 08:49:07 PM »
Hi, interesting to note that it worked for the 12 people, so why can we not simulate this, ie why would the maths not be the same?
 

Turner

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Re: Reverse Labouchere - best sequence?
« Reply #8 on: October 19, 2014, 09:40:09 PM »
What's a good sequence for consistently winning 1,000 in 50-150 spins?
In the book Thirteen Against the Bank - I've not read it properly -

Falkor, If you want to become an expert, you need to address this issue.
 

kav

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Re: Reverse Labouchere - best sequence?
« Reply #9 on: October 19, 2014, 11:08:24 PM »
Turner, Turner... :-)

Btw,
Here is a good Reverse Labouchere tracker
« Last Edit: February 24, 2015, 10:51:15 PM by kav »