Royal Panda roulette

Author Topic: 6 different dealers?  (Read 979 times)

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mr j

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6 different dealers?
« on: March 08, 2017, 10:17:43 PM »
Let me ask your opinion on this beauty......lets say we had 6 different dealers, each spin 30 times. We also have ONE dealer spinning 180 times. Should we roughly get the same stats?

Just to verify, none of the 7 dealers are out to get us. (lol) None of them even look at the wheel when spinning, nor do they give crap where the ball lands. I have this method I use...... I compile quite a few numbers but then it might be dealer change, I hate it.

It almost seems as if I tracked numbers for no damn reason with a new spinner on scene (no, its not playing cold numbers).

Ken


 
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Geoffrey

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Re: 6 different dealers?
« Reply #1 on: March 08, 2017, 10:22:50 PM »
when i collect numbers in these conditions (changing dealers every half hour) i collect them seperately.

Numbers spun from dealer A stick together
numbers spun from dealer B stick together

what i noticed is that fome kinds of play make huge difference depending on which dealer you are playing.

But that wasn't actually your queston was it. so i'm sorry.

Just wanted to share how i approach changing dealers
 

mr j

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Re: 6 different dealers?
« Reply #2 on: March 08, 2017, 10:40:43 PM »
In 180 spins, we should get "X" number of everything.....4 hits, 5 hits, 6 hits etc.

Curious if the stats would be ROUGHLY the same if it was spread out over 6 dealers as opposed to ONE dealer?

Ken
 

Sputnik

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Re: 6 different dealers?
« Reply #3 on: March 09, 2017, 09:56:09 AM »

 It does not matter - your play or game is your personal permanence and nothing can change that.
 So you can split outcomes or play many - the only thing that happen is that your personal permanence grow larger and have the same stats as any other sample with the same size comparing placed bets.
 

kav

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Re: 6 different dealers?
« Reply #4 on: March 09, 2017, 12:50:36 PM »
Hmmm, very interesting question.
Because the sample is pretty low I'd say that with different dealers the results would be closer to the normal distribution that with one dealer.
This is not absolute though. If we do 10 times this experiment/comparison, 6times the 6 dealers would produce more "normal" outcomes and 4 times the single dealer could produce more "normal" outcomes.

 

petespin

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Re: 6 different dealers?
« Reply #5 on: March 09, 2017, 02:50:24 PM »
even the slightly difference of the speed can give us totally different outcomes , plus they alternate from clockwise to anti clockwise make it so hard to predict where the ball will land ,  i  dont care what they doing... the math way to beat roulette its the only way , let em shoot how they like , the outcomes are not infinite ..
 
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Reyth

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Re: 6 different dealers?
« Reply #6 on: March 09, 2017, 02:51:01 PM »
If it is true that sectoring is a thing of the past (before deflectors), I think the idea of dealers could be a "psychological jinx"; I mean when I watch dealers spin online, that ball spins so many times around the wheel while its spinning the other way, its like how in the world can anyone guide that?  And then the deflectors and its like GOOD NIGHT.  I think all those revolutions will erase the personal signature of each dealer.

If however, sectoring is still possible these days, then all bets are off because dealers would signature without even knowing it.

I prefer to believe that sectoring is a thing of the past:

Quote
Thoughts from Arnold Snyder on Roulette Dealer Steering

What it really comes down to is whether or not a professional roulette dealer can train himself to launch the ball such that it makes a specified number of revolutions prior to dropping.

I don't doubt that a dealer can launch a ball from a chosen point on the wheel, or that many wheels are biased such that the ball tends to drop onto the wheel more frequently from the same area of the track. But roulette dealers typically launch the ball so that it makes many revolutions (not 4 or 5) and the wheel, which is not spinning at a truly constant speed, is revolving in the opposite direction of the ball.

In Scarne's 1978 revision of his 1961 book, titled Scarne's Guide to Casino Gambling, he states emphatically that no roulette dealer can section shoot with accuracy on modern roulette wheels. He also expounds some on the dealer who exhibited to him his ability to aim the ball accurately within a 6-number section, as mentioned by Harry McArdle. This dealer, according to Scarne, was able to do this only on an obsolete wheel that had no ball deflectors, and only when he launched the ball in the same direction as the ball was spinning.

With both Darwin Ortiz and Steve Forte also of the opinion that roulette dealers cannot section shoot with accuracy, I still find the arguments that section shooting is a learnable skill to be less than compelling. Although Scarne was not the greatest mathematician, no one has ever refuted his vast knowledge of cheating at gambling.
« Last Edit: March 09, 2017, 02:57:10 PM by Reyth »
 

BlueAngel

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Re: 6 different dealers?
« Reply #7 on: March 09, 2017, 04:04:58 PM »
@ Kav,

Can you explain why do you believe that 6 dealers will produced more ''normal'' results than a single dealer?
And by ''normal'' you mean balanced?

My opinion is that the new dealer might or might not carry on the previous tendencies.
I've never understood why casinos are changing dealers so often, one thing I can say for sure is that to do so there must be important reason...perhaps the answer is mutual with why the wheel's pockets have been numbered in such bizarre way, instead of 1,2,3,4,5...

Can you imagine why?
If there wasn't serious reason then they wouldn't do so...

After giving serious thought on the particular matter I've concluded that since this is a very repetitive procedure it could affect the individual to act mechanically, thus activating what we call ''muscle memory'' and generate more exploitable patterns.
Therefore if pockets were numbered in their arithmetical order like 1,2,3,4,5...etc (starting from 0 point) those patterns would be identified easier by everyone, without the need  to memorize the whole wheel's layout.
 

Reyth

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Re: 6 different dealers?
« Reply #8 on: March 09, 2017, 04:27:33 PM »
Just a note for the masses, frequent dealer changes can have more than a single reason, such as:

1) Avoiding fatigue
2) Avoiding collusion
3) Old School Habit/Statistical Superstition

Number 3 is just my own uninformed speculation but I wouldn't be surprised if there is an actual "Number 3 wildcard" in play as well. :)

 

BlueAngel

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Re: 6 different dealers?
« Reply #9 on: March 09, 2017, 04:42:05 PM »
Your number 1 is down already because they don't stop, just moving from one table to the next.
Number 2, what exactly you mean by saying avoiding collusion??
Number 3, statistical superstition?
Casinos have not been built upon statistical superstitions...
 

Reyth

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Re: 6 different dealers?
« Reply #10 on: March 09, 2017, 05:06:33 PM »
The point is that they can move for reasons that are entirely unrelated to dealer signature but even fatigue counts because a fresh new perspective & location is invigorating; frequent breaks etc.

If a customer and a dealer wanted to collude it will be much harder if the dealer continues to move around.

Maybe you are right about casinos but I am familiar with business practices that are based on superstition with a sprinkling of historical truth and I just get the feeling that the casinos look at things very deeply and wouldn't be surprised in the least if there are additional reasons on the list that evade our surface analysis.

 

BlueAngel

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Re: 6 different dealers?
« Reply #11 on: March 09, 2017, 05:36:42 PM »
Quote
If a customer and a dealer wanted to collude it will be much harder if the dealer continues to move around.

I understand clearly now for the number 1, you don't mean physical fatigue but mental and/or psychological.
This explanation has some merit, although not fully convincing for me.

As about your second, in such case what prevents anyone to follow dealer(s) around the tables??
There is not such rule which could prevent someone doing so, intentionally or unintentionally.
 

Reyth

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Re: 6 different dealers?
« Reply #12 on: March 09, 2017, 06:14:33 PM »
Because it will create an easily observable pattern.  Its one thing when a group of people remain at a single table but its quite another when one or more players are consistently at the same table that a particular dealer is at over multiple tables in a day.
 
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kav

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Re: 6 different dealers?
« Reply #13 on: March 09, 2017, 09:18:55 PM »
BA,

By "normal I mean they would be closer the normal distribution.


But like I already said, this is not absolute, just my experience. This may be the case say 6 out of 10 times, if we did the experiment (single vs multiple dealers) 10 times.
« Last Edit: March 09, 2017, 09:20:54 PM by kav »