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Author Topic: The Dark Side of Some Gambling Forums  (Read 8537 times)

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Real

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The Dark Side of Some Gambling Forums
« on: August 09, 2014, 04:52:38 AM »

The dark side of  gambling forums can happen when political correctness  becomes the single highest objective, no matter how incredibly asinine the claim, or sales pitch..    When it's more important for good will and perceived feelings to triumph over basic probability, logic, facts, and common sense .  Unfortunately this creates a thriving environment for scammers,  bloviating system sellers, and an infection of ignorance. 
 
On such dark forums, system sellers come, boasting a winning system, telling members that "they've supported themselves solely by such a system for the last 40 years, include glowing 2nd and 3rd party testimonials on their linked website, and a photo of themselves reclining in a Jacuzzi, smoking a fat cigar with a bottle of champagne and a pile of chips nearby, revealing  that they have a PhD in roulette and have spent years of painstaking research perfecting said strategy." On such forums, criticizing a scam or pointing out the obvious logic and math flaws of a system is considered grounds for supervised moderation.   Peer review is simply not acceptable.    Correcting mistakes is viewed as being hurtful, and basic probability is considered to be only "one opinion".
 
 
 
On well run forums, like the Wizardofvegas and Myrulet, commonsense, logic, and math is the rule and it trumps bloviating system sellers bearing flowers and manhugs.   The moderators aren't male figure skaters, they're all real mathematicians,  and/ or are very well educated with regards to basic probability and the games they play.  New members and gambler's can quickly learn the real facts that are shared by more experienced gambler's, basic probability, and how to actually get a real edge at various casino games.  Consequently, the general gambling knowledge of the forum members far exceeds that of the other forums.      Unfortunately, the same can't be said for many of the forums that have been left in the dark.

 
Without peer review, logic, and math, most forum members will not build better methods, but will remain trapped within a box, unaware of their stagnant confines.  And the Martingales along with every other up as you lose progression will continue to be reinvented on a daily basis.


 
 
-Real

"It seems as though authors of roulette systems for sale always claim to have a degree in math, thus instantly announcing the whole thing to be a con .
Perhaps a degree in logical thinking would be more beneficial to themselves."
« Last Edit: August 09, 2014, 05:39:09 AM by Real »


 

john518

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Re: The Dark Side of Some Gambling Forums
« Reply #1 on: August 10, 2014, 04:30:33 AM »
Thanks Real for many of your insightful posts and comments and really enjoyed reading them.
Many of us are not professionals or do not have a clear idea on how to win the game. You and other experienced players are leading the discussions for strategies and systems that could help us understand and master the game.
Kav also did a wonderful job in running the site with many fantastic articles, comments and discussions, which makes it unique and remarkable among all roulette forums.
Let's focus on a healthy and productive brainstorming and discussion collectively to make it a greater forum that could benefit us all.
John
 

Real

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Re: The Dark Side of Some Gambling Forums
« Reply #2 on: August 10, 2014, 04:38:05 AM »

Quote
Let's focus on a healthy and productive brainstorming and discussion collectively to make it a greater forum that could benefit us all. -John


I agree. 

I think Kav has done a fine job with his site.  His articles keep it interesting and fun.  While I may not agree with all of them, I enjoy reading them.  The entire site has a unique and interesting look to it as well.  I like his blog style.


One thing that I think he should add is a live chat box.  These days, many people like to chat live.

 
« Last Edit: August 10, 2014, 05:44:20 AM by Real »
 

palestis

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Re: The Dark Side of Some Gambling Forums
« Reply #3 on: August 12, 2014, 01:52:40 AM »
Thanks Real for many of your insightful posts and comments and really enjoyed reading them.
Many of us are not professionals or do not have a clear idea on how to win the game. You and other experienced players are leading the discussions for strategies and systems that could help us understand and master the game.
Kav also did a wonderful job in running the site with many fantastic articles, comments and discussions, which makes it unique and remarkable among all roulette forums.
Let's focus on a healthy and productive brainstorming and discussion collectively to make it a greater forum that could benefit us all.
John
Good comment. But the problem with Real is that he's fighting feverously to trash any system that has nothing to do with wheel bias. Instead he should be presenting arguments that support his system of betting. I personally don't believe in wheel bias due to changes in wheel manufacturing in the recent years as well as the existence of software to detect bias should it ever develop. However I keep an open mind and I'm ready to embrace it as another effective system, as soon as someone can convince me with valid arguments. Not simply statements, but good arguments with examples that can be field proven. Therefore I never try to trash anything that that doesn't agree with my way of thinking. I'm just waiting to be convinced.
As far as books selling system ideas what's the big deal? If you buy a book hoping that it will change your life (like the "no money down real estate" scheme 15 years ago was promising), you are in for a great disappointment. There are no books that can do that and there will never be. However there is nothing wrong with buying a system book if it's reasonably priced, especially for a starter. It gets you thinking, and pushes you to start testing and observing numbers, and even if you find out that the system doesn't work, you may develop your own winning system. I bought a book or 2 for less than $10 ea. And a few in yard sales for $1. Certainly I wasn't hoping that I will become rich if I followed the author's system. Out of curiosity I wanted to see what other people think about roulette. That's all. But I'm not going to pay $100 for a book or a CD.
« Last Edit: August 12, 2014, 01:54:57 AM by palestis »
 

Real

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Re: The Dark Side of Some Gambling Forums
« Reply #4 on: August 12, 2014, 08:07:31 PM »
Palestis,

You should focus on learning basic probability.  Visit the wizardofodds.com

 

palestis

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Re: The Dark Side of Some Gambling Forums
« Reply #5 on: August 13, 2014, 12:54:30 AM »
Palestis,
You should focus on learning basic probability.  Visit the wizardofodds.com

Well, I went to the wizardofodds and the first thing  I read is something that's against your beliefs. That wheel tracking  is not recommended  for today's roulettes. So how can you be so attached to that site, when they are against something you believe in. Or do you just take what is suitable for your purposes and reject what ever is not? 

The following came from the wizardofodds site.

Wheel Tracking

Some people and books claim that roulette wheels are biased, with a heavy side and a light side. Gravity causes the numbers in the heavy side to hit more often. This, I believe, used to be true when the quality of the equipment was poor. However, modern roulette wheels are much better and very rigorously tested. Only in a casino using a very dated wheel, may you be able to find a biased one by testing many thousands of spins. Based on stories I have heard, your odds of finding such wheels are probably best in Europe.

Betting Systems

Ugh. If you think you can beat roulette with a betting system please read my section debunking betting systems. If you don't believe what I say there, here is what the Encyclopedia Britannica says under the subject of roulette:

The oldest and most common betting system is the Martingale or "doubling-up" system,in which bets are doubled progressively. This probably dates back to the invention of the Roulette wheel, but every day of the week some gambler somewhere reinvents it, or some variation of it, and believes he has something new. Over the years hundreds of "sure-fire" winning systems have been dreamed up, but regardless of what system is used, in the long run it cannot overcome the house's advantage of the 0, or 0 and 00. This house advantage is the only system that consistently wins in the long run.

"No one can possibly win at roulette unless he steals money from the table while the croupier isn't looking." —  Albert Einstein
 

palestis

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Re: The Dark Side of Some Gambling Forums
« Reply #6 on: August 13, 2014, 01:13:39 AM »
Palestis,

You should focus on learning basic probability.  Visit the wizardofodds.com
Now I see where you take the statements you post here, Straight copy and paste from wizardofodds. Like this:

A common gamblers’ fallacy called “the doctrine of the maturity of the chances” (or “Monte Carlo fallacy”) falsely assumes that each play in a game of chance is not independent of the others and that a series of outcomes of one sort should be balanced in the short run by other possibilities. A number of “systems” have been invented by gamblers based largely on this fallacy; casino operators are happy to encourage the use of such systems and to exploit any gambler’s neglect of the strict rules of probability and independent plays. — Encyclopedia Britannica (look under “gambling”)

No betting system can convert a subfair game into a profitable enterprise... — Probability and Measure (second edition, page 94) by Patrick Billingsley


For your info wizardofodds does not recommend a system that is based on WHEEL BIAS. Yet you embrace it as the only  system to win the roulette. So you totally ignore the advice from your favorite site. At the same time you accept the advice like the one I pasted above.
What's going on here? If this site trashes the only system you believe in, how can you trust it for the other statements they make? That doesn't make any sense at all.
 

Real

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Re: The Dark Side of Some Gambling Forums
« Reply #7 on: August 13, 2014, 02:36:09 AM »
I'm not sure as to why you keep bringing up wheel bias.
« Last Edit: August 13, 2014, 02:37:47 AM by Real »
 

MrBac

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Re: The Dark Side of Some Gambling Forums
« Reply #8 on: August 24, 2014, 05:12:17 PM »
 I wouldn't necessarily subscribe to everything you read on the Wiz's site.  They are maths head and BJ players, I don't think the owner has much gaming experience other than being an expert number cruncher and adviser. Other games don't get a look in with the exception of craps.  I do exceptionally well playing Baccarat using a propriety betting system, which of course isn't entertained over there and shouldn't be possible, yet I make the impossible possible.

 I do agree with your sentiments regarding sellers however.

 
 

Mike

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Re: The Dark Side of Some Gambling Forums
« Reply #9 on: September 16, 2014, 04:53:16 PM »
I see someone is asking about XXVV's method on betselection-cc:

Quote
A question on short cycles.  I don't see why a person can't run short cycle after short cycle all day long in order to pump up returns.  Do you?   I can't think of any reason why a person would have to quit for a day after only playing for a few spins.  I mean, what purpose could downtime serve.  For example what would be the difference between a 5 or 10 minute break verses a 24 hour break?
« Last Edit: December 28, 2016, 09:29:49 PM by kav »
 

Maxwell

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Re: The Dark Side of Some Gambling Forums
« Reply #10 on: September 17, 2014, 08:19:14 PM »
Hello Mike...

My experience with XXVV was...I'll just say unique.  Hes write long long posts about roulette with these vague hints about how great his roulette knowledge and experience is......colleagues, and mathematicians, and scientists...  and then gets upset when I ask questions and says he doesnt have time to respond....then goes on to wax poetically about how he likes the pink chips best and the yellow chips are his second favorite....see below

Quote
Well my colleague is a senior Chemist and Research Analyst and applies traditional scientific methodology ie applies the scientific method, objectivity, and thorough integrity in all he does. In other words an ideal peer review analyst. Now, in this strange and wonderful world we met one day probably seven years ago while playing at the same live roulette table. My style of play was quite distinctive  ( I often won) and I recall I that I chose the bright pink coloured chips because no one else liked them yet they were outstandingly clear on the table layout. My second favourite were the bright yellow chips, but of course different cultures have different colour associations/ meanings. The pink chips have since been discontinued-lol.

He likes to name drop titles of people as if he's close friends with them but later in conversations I realized that hes pretty much just making the stuff up as he writes or something.  When I brought it to his attention that scientists dont incorporate 'intuition' into testing things started getting stressed and he started talking about his scientist colleagues again.

He also dropped a comment about how hes tested his system over 300,000 spins using live data from the German casinos (I guess to try and impress me)...and then goes onto later argue in other posts that his method cant be coded because it relies on intuition and because you cant code intuition!  If he really has a friend or "colleague" thats a senior Chemist and Research Anal.  and another thats Semyon  Dukach, then maybe theyd be interested to know that their work supposedly support XXVV's system and his use of intution.   My feelings are that they arent really his colleagues... and that he doesnt really work closely with them like he is implying.

The forum was an odd experience.  The aggressive mod chopping up my post and making arrogant jabs at me didnt make me feel welcome there.  In the US we take the freedom of speech seriously.  We as they say ...tend to get a bit irritate when someone censors us like that.  We start dumping tea in harbors... putting lanterns in windows.. and running around on horses...and you get the idea.... hehehe...  I don't know what hes selling over there but I guess the mods agenda is to protect the XXVV platform no matter what. 
Its not my cup of tea.  I prefer healthy debate and interaction on a lively forum. 
« Last Edit: September 17, 2014, 08:34:31 PM by Maxwell »
 

kav

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Re: The Dark Side of Some Gambling Forums
« Reply #11 on: September 18, 2014, 12:31:41 AM »
Hello Maxwell and welcome to our forum.

I understand that there may be some frustration about various issues in the roulette community and the forums.
Please let us try to avoid personal "attacks" (or whatever they are called)
Let's share knowledge.
Thank you
 

Real

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Re: The Dark Side of Some Gambling Forums
« Reply #12 on: September 21, 2014, 11:10:24 PM »
Maxwell,

Don't focus on the BF.  This forum is better, as is the wizardofvegas forum which recently sold for 2.35 million!!!

By the way, nice meeting you.  See you Tues.

 

palestis

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Re: The Dark Side of Some Gambling Forums
« Reply #13 on: September 22, 2014, 03:38:13 PM »
Maxwell,

Don't focus on the BF.  This forum is better, as is the wizardofvegas forum which recently sold for 2.35 million!!!

By the way, nice meeting you.  See you Tues.

Oh yea? $2.35 million? They are doing pretty good from advertising.
 

Real

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Re: The Dark Side of Some Gambling Forums
« Reply #14 on: September 22, 2014, 08:44:35 PM »
Mike Shakleford sold the Wizardofodds forum and Wizardofodds.com to a company for 2.35 million.

The advertising is the new company.