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MrPerfect.

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collecting data
« on: November 02, 2016, 12:52:03 AM »
 To play vb and not only we need to collect a data.
 1. Diamond hits.  This one is most friendly type of data it doesn't change much. If you collected 100 diamond hits,  you will know for sure degree to wich wheel has diamond dominance. 100 spins per direction may be lots of time to sacrifice,  for it collect first 20 diamond hitts and look if it is promising. 
   2. Drop zone... it's a place on the stator( not movable part on wheel) where ball beat the numbers. Separate wheel in 12 parts ( like cklock) and collect drop zones as well.
  3.Number under diamond. When ball smack on diamond, look number under it , memorise to wright down later
  4. Prediction
 Take a number on the rotor ( disk with numbers) when ball has target velocity ( at the moment look under ball).
  5. Total time. Take time ball from moment of prediction to ball fall moment. Use stopwatch or my rc. Alternatively  ( using methronome), count vibrations. You can count revolutions of ball instead of total time, if you prefer,  but time is better.
 6. End number....
7/8... remember to take rotor speed and direction , if ball makes something very unusual ( Jamps back or does spinner) , mark event also.
« Last Edit: November 02, 2016, 12:58:15 AM by MrPerfect. »


 
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Bayes

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Re: collecting data
« Reply #1 on: November 17, 2016, 08:52:32 AM »
To play vb and not only we need to collect a data.
 1. Diamond hits.  This one is most friendly type of data it doesn't change much. If you collected 100 diamond hits,  you will know for sure degree to wich wheel has diamond dominance. 100 spins per direction may be lots of time to sacrifice,  for it collect first 20 diamond hitts and look if it is promising. 
 

Suppose there is no obvious dominance. Can we then rule out that wheel as being a suitable candidate for VB?
 
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Bayes

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Re: collecting data
« Reply #2 on: November 17, 2016, 11:57:51 AM »
The reason why I still have some scepticism about the effectiveness of VB is this: The whole premise of VB is very simple - if you can establish the approximate location that the ball will exit from the track then (so the argument goes) you have a better chance of predicting where the the ball will land because starting from the exit point the ball is more likely to end up at a point nearer the exit than further away from it. Exactly how close will determine your edge, but the assumption is that all numbers are not equally likely to hit, once we have a good prediction of the exit point.

It follows that 1 pin dominance is better than 2 pins dominant, which is better than 3 pins dominant, and so on (I take only the vertical pins as being singled out for dominance, not the horizontal ones, since the ball is more likely to strike the vertical pin because it presents a greater surface area to the ball).

But a dominant pin means that the wheel isn't level, and given our assumption that given the exit point all numbers are not equally likely to hit (the scatter does not encompass 360 degrees of the wheel), this means that some numbers are consistently going to hit more often than others. In which case, how is this different from just looking for a biased wheel by tracking numbers? Why not just look for dominant pins and then bet the numbers closest to the exit points?.

And if it's that simple, why do these "hot numbers" not show up on the casino's monitoring equipment?

Here is what one VB system seller says on their web site:

Quote
Note: our definition of bias wheels is not the same as certain numbers being hotter than other numbers in the wheel. It's about which pin/s or deflector/s on the wheel the ball lands on most of the time. A one pin bias wheel is where the ball lands on the same pin on the wheel most of the time.


But from my argument above, if the wheel is "one pin biased" then certain numbers will be hotter than other numbers, assuming the subsequent scatter is limited. And if it isn't limited, then VB must be ineffective ; what would be the point of trying to determine where the ball exits the track if its subsequent movement means that it can end up on any number?

Mr P, can you identify the flaw in my argument or correct any misconceptions on my part? because I've pointed this out to AP advocates before and have never received a satisfactory reply.

 
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MrPerfect.

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Re: collecting data
« Reply #3 on: November 17, 2016, 01:01:04 PM »
Bayes, you are absolutely right, not correct on every point you made, but right in general. That's why we need collect data. If it would be just predict exit point, there would be many good vb players. Unfortunately it's not the case.
   Wheels are uneven, may posses many defects, not only exit points. All defects affect, some cansel each other affect, some make it stronger. 
   Vb is to provide you with average expected result and some reference point, after " Real work" begins ( pun intended).
    From point of vb prediction we are dealing with destribution and dispercion,  uneven probabilities and multivariate/ multivariable analysis. 
   Wheels are what they are, each does what it does. Using same math model of " perfect wheel" to analyse different situations is simply incorrect. I'm advocating it as well, that's why l was banned several times on foresters forum.
 
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MrPerfect.

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Re: collecting data
« Reply #4 on: November 17, 2016, 01:03:39 PM »
 Bayes, l have a lot of answers.... hurry up with Skype installation.  Most of things l can not even mention on publick forum ( hope you understand ).
 
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Reyth

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Re: collecting data
« Reply #5 on: November 17, 2016, 01:15:19 PM »
 

MrPerfect.

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Re: collecting data
« Reply #6 on: November 17, 2016, 01:53:07 PM »
 If anyone interested, flow in Bayes argument is the fact that numbers do not really depend on drop points directly. It's due to the fact that rotor is in moviment. So any number can be there when ball falls.... almost any number, there are cases when number under drop point is not random. 
   Nice try , Bayes.... ;).
 
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MrPerfect.

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Re: collecting data
« Reply #7 on: November 17, 2016, 02:07:58 PM »

Reyth, you are invited as well. Just learn numbers , l will explain you basis of vb for free, real one, not the one on books or forums. If you are available to work for your own understanding,  lm here to help... l need help as well... it's a team work after all. I'm back to online play, finally my understanding is enough to atack almost anything that moves and has numbers on it.... so possibilities are abundant. 
 
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Reyth

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Re: collecting data
« Reply #8 on: November 17, 2016, 03:00:04 PM »
Well I think its REALLY KEWL that you can do it online and that you are willing to teach and enlist helpers.  This is the sort of positive thing that I really enjoy in this forum! :D
 
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MrPerfect.

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Re: collecting data
« Reply #9 on: November 17, 2016, 03:41:42 PM »
Well I think its REALLY KEWL that you can do it online and that you are willing to teach and enlist helpers.  This is the sort of positive thing that I really enjoy in this forum! :D
It's a hard work. Someone like my girlfriend for example, can witness exploration stage and see numbers growing like magic...
   She doesn't see long hours/ days , sometimes weeks to follow and study the wheel. It's a team work, most of preparation could potentially be performed by people with limited training and understanding.  Even if person is able to collect 3 variables per spin, 2 of such a people could create fearsome team... 3 could create a sindicate. 
  Just need to be responsible and some ability to focus on the task is required... rest math will do. Numbers add up qweak.
 
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Bayes

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Re: collecting data
« Reply #10 on: November 17, 2016, 03:56:18 PM »
If anyone interested, flow in Bayes argument is the fact that numbers do not really depend on drop points directly. It's due to the fact that rotor is in moviment. So any number can be there when ball falls.... almost any number, there are cases when number under drop point is not random. 
   Nice try , Bayes.... ;) .

Yeah I'm interested.  ;D

Right. Rookie mistake on my part.  BTW, sent you a pm.
 
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Real

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Re: collecting data
« Reply #11 on: November 20, 2016, 06:00:40 PM »
Dominant drops aren't always caused by an off level wheel.  All wheels have a dominant drop to some degree.
Weak drops require more tracking than strong drops.
 
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MrPerfect.

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Re: collecting data
« Reply #12 on: November 22, 2016, 11:20:32 AM »
Dominant drops aren't always caused by an off level wheel.  All wheels have a dominant drop to some degree.
Weak drops require more tracking than strong drops.
People sometimes wonder how much data is needed to start make right decisions. ...
    My answer for this qwestion is simple ... ALL YOU CAN TAKE!!! It's there in front of the eyes, it shouldn't be ignored. Data after all its only " REAL"  friend that AP has.
    Problems start when people do not really understand wich data is to take and what to look in it for.
   Real, its not so much answer for your post , altroth it's related , lm just continue tolking by myself mostly on this session on the forum.....
    So coming back to data. Diamonds do rarely change, if someone take diamond hits on one session and compare it to other session, it will be total match in percentage. However something do change. It's timings ball has and how far ball flights after colliding with the diamond. When creating model of the wheel ( for vb) , we need to let part of the ball jamp flexible and predict to diamond only ( target diamond) , wich can change depending on timings ball does and rotor speeds that may compensate for different timings.
   Fortunately, changes are adjustable, unfortunately, decisions are to be made every spin.
   People do not realise difficulties of AP. Need to be on the control always, things may change , and data taken minute ego will have zero value. Need to focus on data points that do not change on do posses " situational" consistency".
   For example, there is " medium " or " mod" amount of revolutions  ( time) that ball may take . If ball do less then medium,  it may jamp more, if does more then medium it may jump less. ...
  I say " may " because it depends on other factors as well.... Here we start to look at the first " abstraction level" in our data. "How much ball jump on average. ".  This factor will particulary determine where vb player has to set his aim....
  Many vb players and bias players do burn their bankrolls at this thing. Vb players start to play when it's jumps too much and bias players start to play when it doesn't. ... IT'S AN ERROR!!!!. This is main reason why " player l wanna be loose".
     AP is easy , providing that every thing is under control.  Keep everything under control is difficult.
 Its a qwestion of self dicsepline.  If you ( my dear reader) stop to control all nessesary variables , STOP and go to smoke...., come back later when you can control situation.  More attention you pay to the game, more money you will get.
   
« Last Edit: November 22, 2016, 11:26:09 AM by MrPerfect. »
 
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MrPerfect.

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Re: collecting data
« Reply #13 on: November 24, 2016, 11:11:02 AM »
 Example from my expirience....
 I'm currently watching one wheel online. Found good signature , starting to drain money out from them, collecting data..ets.
   There was one particular condition that l was neglecting, it's very rare condition and used to happen ones in 10-20 spins. I considered it not important and excluded it from playing model.
  After 3 days of play l encounter situation when this condition becomes dominant!!! Not only dominant, but super dominant, result- sitting there collecting data instead of profiting, and watching helplessly other 2 AP profiting while lm sitting there collecting data.
   If you are serious about the game, track it to the death of any doubts . And do not exclude data points from your collection, even if they are very rare. The more rare it is , more valuable it becomes. Cherish your data, it's your only friend in this game.
 
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kav

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Re: collecting data
« Reply #14 on: November 24, 2016, 11:48:05 AM »
You mean that there are three (3) independent AP players attacking one specific online wheel?
 
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