### Author Topic: Are wheel sections relevant when playing RNG ?  (Read 11657 times)

0 Members and 2 Guests are viewing this topic.

#### ianpbh

• New
• Posts: 47
• Thanked: 48 times
##### Are wheel sections relevant when playing RNG ?
« on: October 19, 2016, 04:20:19 AM »
Hi,
I play RNG and it appears to me that numerical neighbors are more strongly influenced by
currently hitting numbers than their wheel counterparts, is that true or is it just that they
are more visible ?

The following users thanked this post: Reyth

#### Reyth

• Global Moderator
• Hero Member
• Posts: 4189
• Thanked: 1446 times
##### Re: Are wheel sections relevant when playing RNG ?
« Reply #1 on: October 19, 2016, 04:35:54 AM »
If a person has a 100% RNG mindset like I do, then we should see the wheel sectors as an extension of the felt.

For example, if we were to divide the wheel into 12 sectors, each sector would represent the equivalent of a street on the felt.  So this way, you have 12 additional streets to monitor for a total of 24 streets.

What we eventually realize is that the felt and sectors are just artificial constructs and really we are just dealing with any grouping of 3 numbers and that these "pure" groups will enjoy the same statistical features as the "artificial", "pre-made" constructs of streets, sectors etc.

Where felted sectors hold an undisputed potential advantage is when we can cover large portions of the felt with a single bet etc. (as opposed to SU bets).
« Last Edit: October 19, 2016, 04:37:53 AM by Reyth »

The following users thanked this post: Bayes, MrPerfect., ianpbh

#### dobbelsteen

• Hero Member
• Posts: 1548
• Thanked: 533 times
##### Re: Are wheel sections relevant when playing RNG ?
« Reply #2 on: October 19, 2016, 08:33:55 AM »
A roulette is a true RNG unless the device is manipulated  . The camegch multiplaye has a computer drived wheel. On the homepage Rob Groenen from Holland has described the patent.

Also the distribution of the numbers on the circumference of the cilinder doesnot influence the randomness.

There is no difference between a wheel sequence and a RNG sequence.

The following users thanked this post: nowun, Reyth, ianpbh

#### MrPerfect.

• Hero Member
• Posts: 1569
• Thanked: 885 times
##### Re: Are wheel sections relevant when playing RNG ?
« Reply #3 on: October 19, 2016, 09:22:05 AM »
Rng is " dark waters". In relation to roulette it becomes interesting if we put ourselves in position of programmer of such a thing. Need to make one that is " unbeatable" and yet resample roulette game.
Further on , assuming we do not make " stealing device" ( wich is rare in modern times), it has to be not favorable for any section of the wheel sequence  ( numbers order) and non favorable for " dealer signature" patterns.
Here we got 2 " limmits" to our software wich are very difficult to overcome.
Attacking Rng roulette , if it's fair, we have to attack programmer .
In the past , up to 2 years ego , it was posible to find Rng based game wich is fair on bookmakker shops.  Atack mode was dealer signature patterns and "how often " paterns " are expected" . Now things changed, with last update it just steal money.

#### nowun

• New
• Posts: 12
• Thanked: 10 times
##### Re: Are wheel sections relevant when playing RNG ?
« Reply #4 on: October 20, 2016, 05:24:26 AM »
There is no difference between a wheel sequence and a RNG sequence.

Agree if the RNG is honest and not manipulated.

#### Bayes

• Veteran Member
• Posts: 688
• Thanked: 563 times
• roulettician.com
##### Re: Are wheel sections relevant when playing RNG ?
« Reply #5 on: October 20, 2016, 09:56:30 AM »
In the past , up to 2 years ego , it was posible to find Rng based game wich is fair on bookmakker shops.  Atack mode was dealer signature patterns and "how often " paterns " are expected" . Now things changed, with last update it just steal money.

Mr P, when you say "it just steal money" I assume you're not suggesting that the bookies are cheating but that the output is purely random whereas before there was some non-randomness?

I agree that if an RNG isn't rigged and a wheel has no bias then differences in the outcomes are undetectable.
« Last Edit: October 20, 2016, 09:58:25 AM by Bayes »

The following users thanked this post: Harryj, Reyth

#### MrPerfect.

• Hero Member
• Posts: 1569
• Thanked: 885 times
##### Re: Are wheel sections relevant when playing RNG ?
« Reply #6 on: October 20, 2016, 01:51:51 PM »
In the past , up to 2 years ego , it was posible to find Rng based game wich is fair on bookmakker shops.  Atack mode was dealer signature patterns and "how often " paterns " are expected" . Now things changed, with last update it just steal money.

Mr P, when you say "it just steal money" I assume you're not suggesting that the bookies are cheating but that the output is purely random whereas before there was some non-randomness?

I agree that if an RNG isn't rigged and a wheel has no bias then differences in the outcomes are undetectable.
output on these bookies mashines  was never random, not before not now.
At present time it plays egeinst player, before it didn't.

#### nowun

• New
• Posts: 12
• Thanked: 10 times
##### Re: Are wheel sections relevant when playing RNG ?
« Reply #7 on: October 22, 2016, 11:40:24 AM »
The only RNG site I have ever trusted and still do is Betvoyager.  Others just feel rigged.  In saying that I don't win every spin on BV, but I do win all my sessions.  Even when the numbers are not quite with me I still feel like I am going to win on BV.

The following users thanked this post: Reyth

#### MrPerfect.

• Hero Member
• Posts: 1569
• Thanked: 885 times
##### Re: Are wheel sections relevant when playing RNG ?
« Reply #8 on: October 22, 2016, 12:25:51 PM »
The only RNG site I have ever trusted and still do is Betvoyager.  Others just feel rigged.  In saying that I don't win every spin on BV, but I do win all my sessions.  Even when the numbers are not quite with me I still feel like I am going to win on BV.
lm a bit outdated in rng stuff..  BV is the one that has MD5 verification? There was some casinos that generate entire game session give a key to the player before him placing first bet.

The following users thanked this post: Reyth

#### Bayes

• Veteran Member
• Posts: 688
• Thanked: 563 times
• roulettician.com
##### Re: Are wheel sections relevant when playing RNG ?
« Reply #9 on: October 22, 2016, 01:11:16 PM »
Not MD5; that is too weak. BV uses SHA-256

http://classic.betvoyager.com/randomness/

The following users thanked this post: Reyth

#### MrPerfect.

• Hero Member
• Posts: 1569
• Thanked: 885 times
##### Re: Are wheel sections relevant when playing RNG ?
« Reply #10 on: October 22, 2016, 01:44:56 PM »
Not MD5; that is too weak. BV uses SHA-256

http://classic.betvoyager.com/randomness/
could it be broken even theoretically?  Let's say we know half of numbers already and do have assistance of amazon cloud for example...
Something like 84 core processor with 500 gb of ram..
Definitely a thing to research .

The following users thanked this post: Reyth

#### Reyth

• Global Moderator
• Hero Member
• Posts: 4189
• Thanked: 1446 times
##### Re: Are wheel sections relevant when playing RNG ?
« Reply #11 on: October 26, 2016, 11:51:53 PM »
If a person has a 100% RNG mindset like I do, then we should see the wheel sectors as an extension of the felt.

For example, if we were to divide the wheel into 12 sectors, each sector would represent the equivalent of a street on the felt.  So this way, you have 12 additional streets to monitor for a total of 24 streets.

What we eventually realize is that the felt and sectors are just artificial constructs and really we are just dealing with any grouping of 3 numbers and that these "pure" groups will enjoy the same statistical features as the "artificial", "pre-made" constructs of streets, sectors etc.

Where felted sectors hold an undisputed potential advantage is when we can cover large portions of the felt with a single bet etc. (as opposed to SU bets).

LOGGING BRAINSTORM:

1) The creation of groups like streets or sectors, automatically combines a mixture of "HOT" & "COLD" (or at least not HOT) numbers.

2) It is possible to constantly create a FLOWING GROUPING of numbers that shifts based on the random sequences.

3) What if groupings of all repeaters in the last 37 spins were grouped together & analyzed like felted structures?  What statistical patterns could be discovered from these groups?

4) What about grouping "normally appearing" (not-repeating numbers that are not sleeping) numbers?

5) Is it possible to create a "statistically advantageous virtual felt" with number groupings that will have a greater accuracy in the indication of an impending hit?
« Last Edit: October 27, 2016, 12:10:49 AM by Reyth »

The following users thanked this post: ianpbh

#### ianpbh

• New
• Posts: 47
• Thanked: 48 times
##### Re: Are wheel sections relevant when playing RNG ?
« Reply #12 on: October 27, 2016, 02:17:31 AM »
I think you have it absolutely spot on, simply exclude all numbers
that did not show in the last 37 spins, my short exposure to roulette
has led me to believe that it is very profitable to exclude cold numbers
from bets.
Now for the tricky bit, how do we simplify this so as to make practical
use of it ?

Ian

The following users thanked this post: Reyth

#### Reyth

• Global Moderator
• Hero Member
• Posts: 4189
• Thanked: 1446 times
##### Re: Are wheel sections relevant when playing RNG ?
« Reply #13 on: October 27, 2016, 02:26:38 AM »
Well, seeing as how this is our focus then, we will observe the following:

1) Normally appearing numbers will have appeared only once
2) Repeaters will have hit anywhere from twice to six times

So the question revolves around the behavior of these two groups of numbers.

One thing that is starting to nag at me is the comparision of 37 spin "snapshots"; so you take a look at the status of all spun numbers from the last 37 spins, then spin the wheel 37 more times and compare the two snapshots.

The person that designed "Square-Ro-Lette" asserted that numbers that have repeated twice tend to reoccur more and whether that is true or not, it is questions like this that will help us make intelligent decisions regarding these two groups of numbers.

The following users thanked this post: MrPerfect.

#### ianpbh

• New
• Posts: 47
• Thanked: 48 times
##### Re: Are wheel sections relevant when playing RNG ?
« Reply #14 on: October 27, 2016, 02:38:47 AM »
I don't think we have to make this too complicated, just
exclude non hitters from the last 37, find a way to make a
virtual felt out of the remainder and play them.