### Author Topic: number streams  (Read 17362 times)

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#### Trilobite

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##### number streams
« on: September 05, 2016, 12:46:21 PM »
Researching a system based on 'independence with dependent overtones', that migrates across ANY number stream after 2 results then places 1 bet.
(need 2 results for now because part of bet selection chips up on last 2 numbers)

Main reasons for such feature is for customised downtime between bets, hopefully with performance being unaffected while playing a progressive method.

Idea is to walk around casino at leisure over viewing the tables, and choose a table to bet.

After placing one bet, retire from table, adjust bankroll and next bet size, then when ready (maybe grab a beer first) select a new table for next bet (option to stay at table if suitable).

System bet selection only requires 2 results for trigger.

----------------------------------

Forget about physics and wheel bias for these questions.

1) Take a 10000 (uninterrupted) number stream from wheel/rng?

2) Take a blended 10000 (interrupted every 2) number steam from wheels/rngs?

Should there be any noticeable difference of randomness or probability between the 2 streams?

Could I rely upon the 2 types of numbers to delivery similarly featured results?
« Last Edit: September 12, 2016, 09:36:44 AM by kav »

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#### Reyth

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##### Re: ?? number streams
« Reply #1 on: September 06, 2016, 10:36:33 PM »
No there won't be any noticeable difference and especially because you have discounted any possibility of wheel bias BUT if you are using some kind of trigger system in your interrupted streams, you will definitely achieve a noticeable difference when compared to the uniterrupted stream.

Pales and Harry have proven that rare events become even more rare when forced to repeat successively; i.e. the expected equivalent max loss is substantially reduced:

http://forum.roulette30.com/index.php?topic=1142.msg16045#msg16045
« Last Edit: September 06, 2016, 10:43:53 PM by Reyth »

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#### Trilobite

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##### Re: ?? number streams
« Reply #2 on: September 07, 2016, 12:33:43 AM »
BUT if you are using some kind of trigger system in your interrupted streams, you will definitely achieve a noticeable difference when compared to the uniterrupted stream.

Thanks Reyth,

I’ll be constantly betting for one of the last two numbers to repeat, with some hedging bets around the sixlines, dozens, and EC’s.
Playing an uninterrupted stream, the longer the game goes on the more eventually probable one of the last two will repeat, and the progression helps recover funds when that happens. (Actually this system works the other way around as it's the combination of "hedging bets" that are designed to make the profit, and the "bet on the last two numbers" is partially or fully absorbed by the hedged bets. When a repeat does occur the bankroll gets a boost)

Placing the bet grows in complexity, ranging from as little as 7 and up to 18 layout positions, and the bankroll needs constant updating to size the next bet. Therefore to play with confidence the system needs a slow table. From my experience, sometimes a slow table can be too slow, and sometimes a slow table can spontaneously get fast, putting you under too much pressure.

The best solution would be to approach a selected table only after the next bet has been calculated and organised. Just pick your moment, walk up and place your chips. To this end I need to be confident that even though splitting the game up by two spins at a time from different tables, one of the last two numbers will repeat at much the same rate as if I were only playing one table.

My feeling is that it should be much the same, but I can’t completely shake the feeling that it won’t.

Do you think this comparison is something you could simulate over large sample sizes?

I guess you'd need an rng stream that only seeds once, and another that re-seeds after every three spins. Three spins because you need each third spin for a result.
« Last Edit: September 07, 2016, 12:56:27 AM by Trilobite »

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#### kav

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##### Re: ?? number streams
« Reply #3 on: September 07, 2016, 07:06:30 AM »
If the real wheel has no bias and the rng is really random, there should be no difference between the two sequences. This means that both sequences will be truly random.

But I can not understand what you mean by "delivery similarly featured results". Two sequences can be equally random, but the results quite different.For example in one sequence One color dominates, while on the other sequence the opposite color dominates etc.

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#### Jesper

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##### Re: ?? number streams
« Reply #4 on: September 07, 2016, 07:15:32 AM »
Run a large stream of numbers in a computer simulation, and then start a few numbers a head and run the very same stream again. It can be a large differ in result. Our methods work when the stream suit the methods only.

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#### Trilobite

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##### Re: ?? number streams
« Reply #5 on: September 07, 2016, 09:46:56 AM »
If the real wheel has no bias and the rng is really random, there should be no difference between the two sequences. This means that both sequences will be truly random.

But I can not understand what you mean by "delivery similarly featured results". Two sequences can be equally random, but the results quite different.For example in one sequence One color dominates, while on the other sequence the opposite color dominates etc.

A colour domination of one or the other IS a similar feature.

Thanks.

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#### Trilobite

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##### Re: ?? number streams
« Reply #6 on: September 07, 2016, 09:49:01 AM »
Run a large stream of numbers in a computer simulation, and then start a few numbers a head and run the very same stream again. It can be a large differ in result. Our methods work when the stream suit the methods only.

I want this method to suit any and all streams.

#### Trilobite

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##### Re: ?? number streams
« Reply #7 on: September 07, 2016, 09:52:32 AM »

I think this all comes back to the personal permanence of any roulette player, and learning to accept it and live with it, and thereby design methods that work with it.

I have great hope that this system will do just that, and I've made a lot of systems.

Cheers.

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#### Mike

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##### Re: ?? number streams
« Reply #8 on: September 07, 2016, 12:38:00 PM »
BUT if you are using some kind of trigger system in your interrupted streams, you will definitely achieve a noticeable difference when compared to the uniterrupted stream.

Pales and Harry have proven that rare events become even more rare when forced to repeat successively; i.e. the expected equivalent max loss is substantially reduced:

This is false. The only thing Pales and Harry have proved is that the gambler's fallacy is a alive and well!

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#### Trilobite

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##### Re: ?? number streams
« Reply #9 on: September 07, 2016, 01:24:23 PM »
The only thing Pales and Harry have proved is that the gambler's fallacy is a alive and well!

OK, well that's a good thing for us system designers, isn't it?
« Last Edit: September 07, 2016, 01:46:31 PM by Trilobite »

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#### Trilobite

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##### Re: ?? number streams
« Reply #10 on: September 07, 2016, 01:50:07 PM »
I can't believe Mike has posted 509 times on this forum with a wealth of critical analysis, and I just gave him his first "thanks"?

What's going on there? Is this random at work?
« Last Edit: September 07, 2016, 01:51:57 PM by Trilobite »

#### Mike

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##### Re: ?? number streams
« Reply #11 on: September 07, 2016, 03:02:34 PM »
You don't get thanks for pointing out what no-one wants to hear, even if it's the truth. But thanks for your thanks.

I think it's mainly because 'thanks' wasn't implemented when I last posted, which was some time ago.

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#### Real

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##### Re: ?? number streams
« Reply #12 on: September 07, 2016, 03:30:12 PM »
Quote
You don't get thanks for pointing out what no-one wants to hear, even if it's the truth. But thanks for your thanks.  -Mike

So true.  If you provide the facts then you are often called "mean spirited", and a "troll".

Quote
Pales and Harry have proven that rare events become even more rare when forced to repeat successively; i.e. the expected equivalent max loss is substantially reduced:-Reyth

This isn't true.  Why do you just make stuff like this up? You're entitled to your own opinions, but not your own facts.

-Really
« Last Edit: September 07, 2016, 03:32:37 PM by Real »

#### Reyth

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##### Re: ?? number streams
« Reply #13 on: September 07, 2016, 03:46:59 PM »
Of course its true.  I wouldn't have posted it if I hadn't proven it first.  Just because you don't believe it can be true doesn't magically make it so:

http://forum.roulette30.com/index.php?topic=1071.msg15995#msg15995
http://forum.roulette30.com/index.php?topic=919.msg13507#msg13507

We already know you have preconceived ideas about roulette statistics and are not willing to examine the actual facts.
« Last Edit: September 07, 2016, 03:56:57 PM by Reyth »

#### Real

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##### Re: ?? number streams
« Reply #14 on: September 07, 2016, 03:50:15 PM »
Quote
We already know you have preconceived ideas about roulette statistics and are not willing to examine the actual facts.

You haven't posted any supporting data or proof.  Bayes, All mathematicians, history, and I have proven you wrong.