Roulette Forum

Roulette Forum => Gambling Philosophy => Topic started by: GameNeverOver on June 03, 2015, 11:24:08 PM

Title: Roulette Wheel is Beatable
Post by: GameNeverOver on June 03, 2015, 11:24:08 PM
I'm sorry that there are lots of people out there (mostly AP/VB players and plain gamblers) that won't agree with this statement.


The problem with all these guys is that they have never taken the required time to sit down, cut all the distractions around them and make some deep thinking about this "mysterious" game (better known as roulette).

So, lets try to get the things clearer in few steps, using the question/answer approach.


1)Is roulette beatable?
-Yes it is.
Actually there are a lot of guys in the world that are making good amounts from playing on roulette. Most of these guys remain hidden from us (the reasons are simple: they don't want to get noticed and to answer all those silly questions on which they will never give honest answers. Why? Because noone is never going to sell his golden mine.) and those that we hear about are guys that are not easily approachable (talk-to-the-hand type).

2)How?
-With lots of patience.
The only way to make money on the roulette is by acquiring patience, lots of it. You need to perceive this game like your job and have predetermined win goal (lets say 1/5/20/100/500/1000 units per session). You need to be able to sit still and watch all those spins running in front of your eyes and wait till your trigger appears and then you start wagering. You also need a decent bankroll and honest expectations. Ex. if you have 10.000 dollars and expect to make 5000 dollars or even doubling your bank per session, then you are pushing it too much. This way you are heading to disaster. But on the other side, if you put some reasonable goals like 250 dollars profit per session, this is more realistic. If you use this small profit goal, in one year (with recalculating your profit goal every time your bankroll is doubled) you can turn these 10 K into more then 1 million dollars. How? With 250 dollars per session you will double your bankroll in 40 sessions - turn it to 20.000. In the next 40 sessions you are going to double it again - turn it to 40.000. Etc etc. All in all you can easily have 300 sessions in one year, thus you can double your initial bankroll 7.5 times (till the seventh doubling your 10.000 will become 1.280.000 dollars).


3)Do i know any kind of system that is winner 100% of the time?
-Yes, I do but I'm not going to share it - the taste of victory is sweeter when you fought the battle alone. ;)


4)AP or system playing?
-Definitely system playing. AP playing is fiction.


5)Is it required to be statistics expert to succeed in this job?
-No. Not at all actually. Lots of guys end up lost in all those statistics, then variations, then randomness, then that, then this and in the end all they find is why this think is not working. So they have never thought how to make something work - they are trying to find ways to prove why something won't work and they did just that. If they tried opposite - they'll get opposite (positive) results.


6)RNG or Live Wheel Online Roulette?
-Neither. Both are crooked. Both are using different ways to ensure their profits.


7)If we can't win there, what is the guarantee that we can win in B&M casinos?
-Only in the reputable B&M casinos where lots of money goes in and out (more in then out) every day you can be sure that they won't be dishonest and won't try to cheat you in either way. These guys are big players. These casinos have hundreds of thousand or even millions gamblers visiting them every year. If each of them is losing approx. 100 dollars per day, it wouldn't make any difference if you and few others like you win few hundred or thousand each in that day. Plus these casinos are used to launder drug money and if they cheat on a customer and get caught in the process, they will lose much more then the money from the visitors which pass by each year. We are talking big money here.


All the best,
=GNO=
Title: Re: Roulette Wheel is Beatable
Post by: weird on June 04, 2015, 03:31:30 AM
   

1)Is roulette beatable?
-Yes it is.
A

2)How?
-With lots of patience.
The only way to make money on the roulette is by acquiring patience, lots of it.  You need to be able to sit still and watch all those spins running in front of your eyes and wait till your trigger appears and then you start wagering. 

All the best,
=GNO=

Hi GNO,
What u said are the truth.
If we play all spins, we will lose to the variance and edge.

What we really need to understand is there limit to any sequence, and only wait for trigger to bet the most probability outcome could win money.
Thanks for your article.
Title: Re: Roulette Wheel is Beatable
Post by: Mike on June 04, 2015, 03:01:58 PM

4)AP or system playing?
-Definitely system playing. AP playing is fiction.


Yesterday you put quite some effort into telling us that AP must be bunk because otherwise AP players wouldn't waste time on forums trying to persuade others that systems don't work, they would be at the casino making millions.

Now it seems that you have a winning system, but you are still here wasting time on a forum trying to persuade others that AP doesn't work, when you could be at the casino making millions.

So by your own logic, your behaviour is illogical and systems are bunk.
Title: Re: Roulette Wheel is Beatable
Post by: scepticus on June 04, 2015, 03:09:24 PM
Mike. Are you by any chance Mike Mc Bain ?
Title: Re: Roulette Wheel is Beatable
Post by: kav on June 04, 2015, 03:15:40 PM
Mike. Are you by any chance Mike Mc Bain ?
What kind of file is this? It doesn't appear a text or doc file.
Title: Re: Roulette Wheel is Beatable
Post by: Mike on June 04, 2015, 03:59:39 PM
Mike. Are you by any chance Mike Mc Bain ?

No, my last name is Newton (no relation to Isaac that I know of).
Title: Re: Roulette Wheel is Beatable
Post by: scepticus on June 04, 2015, 04:26:52 PM
Hi kav
I tried to start a new thread but could not paste it so tried to send it as an attachment.
I sent you a message as to how to do this.
So I'll ask again here. If I use Word how do I post it to the forum ? Copy and post doesn't seem to work.
 I don't know how the attachment was made to my inquiry to Mike.I didn't attach it .I can only think that it being in my computer it attached itself to the next post - my query to Mike.
Title: Re: Roulette Wheel is Beatable
Post by: Maes on June 04, 2015, 06:59:32 PM
I don't get this kind of person that says "I have a method to win but I am not sharing it ."

If you dont want to share , just don't brag about it .

Don't make the life harder for others that tries to win , but are unsuccesfull .

AND you don't lose nothing if you share ( that if you are not cheating , then I understand) .

Peace 
Title: Re: Roulette Wheel is Beatable
Post by: scepticus on June 04, 2015, 08:44:59 PM
It depends on your point of view, Maes.
There can be no guarantee of any system, method  or strategy winning forever .
Consider , though . ,if you had a method that was profitable over a long period and told " The Whole World " about it . If they used it then they also would win and it wouldn't  be long before casinos were out of business.So, as the saying goes, " why kill the Goose that lays the Golden Eggs . 
Title: Re: Roulette Wheel is Beatable
Post by: Maes on June 04, 2015, 08:56:22 PM
Maybe I am the wierdo here.To answer the question : I would give the system for free.

Be rich and anonymous , instead rich and famous.(because you will win some money before they go out of business , or come with a anti -system )
Title: Re: Roulette Wheel is Beatable
Post by: GameNeverOver on June 04, 2015, 09:56:37 PM

Hi GNO,
What u said are the truth.
If we play all spins, we will lose to the variance and edge.

What we really need to understand is there limit to any sequence, and only wait for trigger to bet the most probability outcome could win money.
Thanks for your article.

Hi there Weird.
With this mindset of yours I sense that you are very, very close to finding that approach/system which will bring you constant profits, again and again. And when you do, you'll understand what I've meant when I wrote "the taste of victory is sweeter when you fought the battle alone".
Title: Re: Roulette Wheel is Beatable
Post by: GameNeverOver on June 04, 2015, 10:52:16 PM
Yesterday you put quite some effort into telling us that AP must be bunk because otherwise AP players wouldn't waste time on forums trying to persuade others that systems don't work, they would be at the casino making millions.

Now it seems that you have a winning system, but you are still here wasting time on a forum trying to persuade others that AP doesn't work, when you could be at the casino making millions.

So by your own logic, your behaviour is illogical and systems are bunk.

Yesterday, today, tomorrow - every day I'm going to tell you and everybody else  that AP sucks. Yes, it sucks big time. :) I'm not trying to insult you, neither someone else. Let me now be a gentleman and answer your questions. :)

"Now it seems that you have e winning system"
The winning approach (I call it approach) is not from now. I am using it for more then six months now and from the moment I've tested it on paper for the first time and through all the sessions I've played till now never let me down, not even once. :)
You asked "why I'm here? Why I'm wasting time?"
First of all: this is not wasting time for me.
1) Maybe you've noticed (but probably not) I'm not english native talker. So by writing on english I'm working on perfecting it.
2) Meeting new people - SMART PEOPLE. There is one thing that you, like AP player will never understand: all that thinking, remembering and calculating that one system player do while waiting for his trigger, makes him smarter. Every system player must (mostly in the beginning) felt the strong headaches from all that thinking that he does while playing. That is his brain working (out) hard. I've noticed that after I've started playing roulette I'm thinking faster then the average person, my memory is at least 2 times better (I remember the tiniest details), became faster and better decision maker etc.
3) THE MOST IMPORTANT: I'm here because someone must balance out the things - ALWAYS. There are lots of people on every roulette forum which are lazy to think and find ways to make profits from roulette but are always in the mood to kill off the desire to SUCCEED of the new roulette players. Let me "paint" it with words to show you how it is when you and all the rest of your AP friends start to spit on someone who is actually new in this game:
This guy/girl was playing roulette few times. Won some - lose some. Loved the feeling - that feeling of being alive. But after a while, s/he got hooked. By days became restless - by nights sleepless. So this boy/girl get opsessed over the game - precisely over beating this game. But everytime s/he tried - everytime s/he lost his/her money. (I'll use he/his in further writing). After few consecutive loses, this human being started to feel hopeless. His losses totaled were scary big. He needed something to get his money back. He needed an advice. Or strategy. Or whatever works. He surfs on the www and finds few systems: one is 500$, other three are free. He is broke, so he tries the three free systems. Tries each of them - all three fail. He is in deeper s*** now. Somehow manages to find that 500$ and pays for the system. The system (AS YOU GUESS) is BS. His hole is deeper and darker then ever. After this he distances himself from the world and live through his first bigger depression. Somehow he manages to swim out of the dark sea, and again start to surf the www. This time he is smarter: he skips all the ads for WINNING ROULETTE SYSTEMS. He finds the roulette forums. Read through the articles and see that 99% of the posts are negative, people arguing, people swearing each other, calling each other dumbf***s, uglyngs, zeamans, uglybranchhappytreefriends, and didn't find anything useful. After a while, he finally decides to register to the forum and start communicating and learning. But no: every time he asks something, 99% of all the members start to negate, start to repeat: ROULETTE IS UNBEATABLE, THERE IS NO WAY TO WIN ON ROULETTE, or the worst of all AP IS THE ONLY WAY! So, this young human being is totally confused and dissapointed. He sees all those senior members with their thousands of posts (without knowing that most of these posts are just negating, repeating the "HE WILL BEAT YOU" or "GAMBLERS FALLACY" and nothing else and says to himself: "They are older and have way more exp. in this game. They must be right. There is no way to make money from this game." All his dreams are crushed. His deep and dark hole in his heart remains open and haunts him till the rest of his life. I'm here for these folks Mike. I'm here to motivate them. I'm here to encourage them to use the brain and THINK VERY DEEP AND HARD.

=GNO=

[Offensive language edited by mod. Please try to not offend fellow members with your remarks. Thank you.]
Title: Re: Roulette Wheel is Beatable
Post by: GameNeverOver on June 04, 2015, 11:07:07 PM
I don't get this kind of person that says "I have a method to win but I am not sharing it ."

If you dont want to share , just don't brag about it .

Don't make the life harder for others that tries to win , but are unsuccesfull .

AND you don't lose nothing if you share ( that if you are not cheating , then I understand) .

Peace


I'm not bragging. I'm just saying that its possible. And if its possible for me - its possible for you and for everybody else.

I'm not selling this approach, nor sharing it. From personal experiences I've learned that noone is trustable and every time when you feel safe and tell a secret or something important to someone, that someone always share that thing with someone third and that third person with someone else etc..and in the end your deep secret became public secret.


I've written that to encourage you and everybody else to keep working and thinking because the roulette is beatable and the key ingredient in the process of beating the wheel is PATIENCE.
Title: Re: Roulette Wheel is Beatable
Post by: GameNeverOver on June 04, 2015, 11:25:07 PM
It depends on your point of view, Maes.
There can be no guarantee of any system, method  or strategy winning forever .
Consider , though . ,if you had a method that was profitable over a long period and told " The Whole World " about it . If they used it then they also would win and it wouldn't  be long before casinos were out of business.So, as the saying goes, " why kill the Goose that lays the Golden Eggs .


You've nailed it. :)
Title: Re: Roulette Wheel is Beatable
Post by: Mike on June 05, 2015, 09:55:59 AM
GameNeverOver,

It's ok to talk about balance, but what about the truth? As grown-ups, we should at least attempt to give reasoned arguments and/or some evidence for our assertions, don't you think?

You are clearly not qualified to talk about the efficacy or otherwise of AP methods, but you still dogmatically insist that they are a fantasy, even though they are all based on the actual physics of the game, rather than mere statistics. If you are thinking deeply, you will realize that the physics comes first, then the statistics. The physics has already taken place before you can count the statistics, and you cannot always deduce the physics from the statistics, except in the case of severely biased wheels which these days are extremely rare. More refined and sophisticated techniques are needed, which you obviously know nothing about.

And you are assuming that I am against systems because I just "believe" what the mathematicians are saying, but in the beginning, I spent quite a lot of time and effort researching various systems based on triggers, patterns, and progressions, but was not satisfied with any of them. Someone else might have been though, and there is always an element of subjectivity based on an individual's tolerance for risk, but for me, the risk-reward ratio was too great, and I'm not a gambler.

For anyone contemplating roulette as a source of income (not just fun), they should be aware that there are two fundamentally different approaches. If they are wise, they will read up, from an UNBIASED source, on the history of the game, learn what has been tried, and what has failed. A good start is the Wikipedia article on Roulette.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roulette (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roulette)

What they should not do is to take too seriously the various claims of those put forward on roulette forums, and certainly not of those who are selling methods or systems, and that includes AP methods. There are scammers in the AP world as well as the systems world. The great thing about roulette is, you can do your own research. If you are making profits on paper, and the methods are based on sound principles, you can be fairly confident that you have something of value, but if the principles are flawed, it's likely that your results are due to luck.

There's no need to endlessly reinvent the wheel (if you'll excuse the pun) and discover over and over that certain techniques don't work.

Sure, have an open mind, but I recommend any newbie to START with researching AP, not systems. Once on the system treadmill it can be hard to get off, there's always one more tweak to try, one more angle. There is truly an infinite number of systems, because statistics can be manipulated in an infinite number of ways.

On the other hand, physics describes the way the world actually IS. The laws of physics as applied to roulette are comparatively few in number and are quite simple. This apparent limitation is a good thing, because it narrows down the possible number of "systems" which are possible. Randomness has no limits, but physics (as applied to roulette) does.

A good forum which focuses on AP is here:

http://rouletteplace.com/
You can find well written posts on roulette physics and visual ballistics, dealer signature etc. Of course there are disagreements, but that's the nature of a forum.

Best of luck.
Title: Re: Roulette Wheel is Beatable
Post by: GameNeverOver on June 05, 2015, 11:17:19 AM
GameNeverOver,

It's ok to talk about balance, but what about the truth? As grown-ups, we should at least attempt to give reasoned arguments and/or some evidence for our assertions, don't you think?


The problem with you AP guys is that you are having perfect eyesight but continue to act like blind men.

How many times have you played the game? Did you pay any attention while playing?
Have you noticed that even if sometimes there will be 20+ consecutive EC (R or B, L or H, O or E) in a row, but in the spins which follow they start to even out. To ensure there is no confusion, I'm going to give you one school example and every player which has played on roulette for real and is having good memory to remember the numbers will confirm my claims.

If you sit on the table and observe 100 spins and let say there are 35 REDs and 65 BLACKs, zero has slept (this 35% to 65% ratio is something that you will not see every day - most of the time it will fluctuate and be from 40 to 48% compared with the opposite even chance).
If you have the opportunity to see something like this, you can WITH 100% CERTAINTY expect to see at least 45 REDs in the next 100 spins (200 spins X 40% = 80 REDs - 35 REDs (already appeared in the first 100 spins) = 45 REDs). You can be sure that this will happen because it happens all the time.
So, how can we use this knowledge in our advantage?
With patience of course. We will wait just a little more. Every black number that shows up bring us closer to our winnings.

If in the first 20 spins from the second 100 spins 15 BLACKs and only 5 REDs appear, in the remaining 80 spins there will be at least 40 REDs: this means that if we use only flat bets we will get even in the end of this 100 spins sequence. And using non aggressive progression will bring us the profits for sure.

Hint: Even in smaller samples then 200 spins you can notice the working of the law of equal distribution.

This is not the approach that I'm using, this is just one practical example about how winning is done in the game of roulette.

Good luck all,
=GNO=
Title: Re: Roulette Wheel is Beatable
Post by: BlueAngel on June 06, 2015, 12:12:00 AM
By writing all these you gave me more than enough clues to understand your method.
I've tried to PM you but your mail box is full.
One of my methods is similar to yours,not ordinary at all!
We might speak outside...
Title: Re: Roulette Wheel is Beatable
Post by: Real on June 06, 2015, 05:21:21 AM
GNO,

Does the gambler's fallacy nonsense just come naturally to you?

And what's with the "secret hint" scam?

On any other forum they'd ban your ass for running a gypsy scam.
Title: Re: Roulette Wheel is Beatable
Post by: Reyth on June 06, 2015, 06:16:59 AM
Hey Mike,  wouldn't any AP player be considered a cheater by a casino?
Title: Re: Roulette Wheel is Beatable
Post by: Mike on June 06, 2015, 06:56:13 AM

If you have the opportunity to see something like this, you can WITH 100% CERTAINTY expect to see at least 45 REDs in the next 100 spins (200 spins X 40% = 80 REDs - 35 REDs (already appeared in the first 100 spins) = 45 REDs).

Oh crikey...

The gambler's fallacy will never die.
Title: Re: Roulette Wheel is Beatable
Post by: Mike on June 06, 2015, 07:07:40 AM
Hey Mike,  wouldn't any AP player be considered a cheater by a casino?

Maybe, but it's not against the law, although roulette computers are illegal in some jurisdictions.

Some system players take the view that AP is cheating and that the systems approach is the only pure and noble path, an intellectual challenge worth pursuing. They think there is something underhand and grubby about AP, and even that it's comparatively easy compared to the "true" way.

A bizarre kind of snobbery, in my opinion.
Title: Re: Roulette Wheel is Beatable
Post by: Reyth on June 06, 2015, 02:04:59 PM

If you have the opportunity to see something like this, you can WITH 100% CERTAINTY expect to see at least 45 REDs in the next 100 spins (200 spins X 40% = 80 REDs - 35 REDs (already appeared in the first 100 spins) = 45 REDs).

Oh crikey...

The gambler's fallacy will never die.

Not as long as people who attempt to define it refuse to recognize the fact of equal distribution.  You have admitted it exists but have said its useless.  Apparently, GNO is declaring a concrete case of how it isn't.  I also showed you a way to increase your odds of success by using it.  Its not a fallacy, its a fact of roulette.
Title: Re: Roulette Wheel is Beatable
Post by: Reyth on June 06, 2015, 02:11:03 PM
Hey Mike,  wouldn't any AP player be considered a cheater by a casino?

Maybe, but it's not against the law, although roulette computers are illegal in some jurisdictions.

Some system players take the view that AP is cheating and that the systems approach is the only pure and noble path, an intellectual challenge worth pursuing. They think there is something underhand and grubby about AP, and even that it's comparatively easy compared to the "true" way.

A bizarre kind of snobbery, in my opinion.

Well VB machines (that's what you mean by roulette computers?) are devices and so I would think they are definitely attempting to gain an unfair advantage but any visual inspection of a wheel's behavior using one's ears and eyeballs is certainly fair game.  I realize that now that I have thought about it more.
Title: Re: Roulette Wheel is Beatable
Post by: GameNeverOver on June 06, 2015, 02:45:43 PM
GNO,

Does the gambler's fallacy nonsense just come naturally to you?

And what's with the "secret hint" scam?

On any other forum they'd ban your ass for running a gypsy scam.

Yes, I'm born with it. Actually I'm born with the intelligence to know that when something is working for me - then its working. :)

Secret hint scam?! hahaha I'm not selling anything to noone here or nowhere else so this statement goes to the garbage, together with all the remaining posts from you and the rest of the AP players.

Something to add:
The more I read your posts the more I'm sure that all of you "the self proclaimed AP winners" are nothing more then guys which are in the business with selling AP/VB equipment or giving training courses and you are the ones that should be banned from every roulette forum because you are the ones that scam people to pay for your training and expensive equipment.

P.S. The last sentence you wrote is not insult for me personally but for this forum in general and for every single member or guest-visitor on it.
Kav, our respected admin, should reconsider his decision about your presence here in future because you don't contribute to this forum in any way + you got the balls to spit on it and on every MEMBER publicly!
Title: Re: Roulette Wheel is Beatable
Post by: GameNeverOver on June 06, 2015, 03:06:46 PM

If you have the opportunity to see something like this, you can WITH 100% CERTAINTY expect to see at least 45 REDs in the next 100 spins (200 spins X 40% = 80 REDs - 35 REDs (already appeared in the first 100 spins) = 45 REDs).

Oh crikey...

The gambler's fallacy will never die.

Not as long as people who attempt to define it refuse to recognize the fact of equal distribution.  You have admitted it exists but have said its useless.  Apparently, GNO is declaring a concrete case of how it isn't.  I also showed you a way to increase your odds of success by using it.  Its not a fallacy, its a fact of roulette.

He doesn't want to see the truth Reyth. :) Maybe one day he'll wake up and understand the meaning of the saying:
"I was blind but now I see."
and then everything will be clearer for him.

Till then you, Palestis, Kav, Weird, BlueAngel and I (sorry for those I didn't mention) will make profits from the wheel.

Till then he and the rest of the "AP constant winners" will try to make a quick buck from luring naive players into buying expensive toys which are a must in AP/VB playing.

Good luck all,
=GNO=
Title: Re: Roulette Wheel is Beatable
Post by: scepticus on June 06, 2015, 04:44:16 PM
Mike.
Your links show up a site which
1 ) Discusses computers. Do you use a compute or rely strictly on VB  ?
2 ) The "History " of roulette ? More like a short summary .  All history is capable of several interpretations.
Title: Re: Roulette Wheel is Beatable
Post by: GameNeverOver on June 06, 2015, 05:19:17 PM
Mike.
Your links show up a site which
1 ) Discusses computers. Do you use a compute or rely strictly on VB  ?
2 ) The "History " of roulette ? More like a short summary .  All history is capable of several interpretations.

Little by little, everyone on this forum (and all the others) will read through the true intentions of the so called AP-constant-winners players.
Hint: AP equipment is damn expensive and the lowest price starts at 1250 dollars. If any of these AP players successfully lure some naive player to buy one, probably gets provision (at least 30%) so: 1250 X 0.30 = 375 dollars! And this is from the cheapest ones. There are also gadgets from 80.000 dollars and the piece of the cake becomes 24.000 dollars. 10 pieces sold = 240.000 dollars KA-CHING! :)
Title: Re: Roulette Wheel is Beatable
Post by: scepticus on June 06, 2015, 10:31:06 PM
GNO
 Computers can be a help in roulette prediction because some people have actually won lots of money using them.But if you are caught using them in a real casino you will be barred from  that casino and many more.
What I dispute is that OUR AP members can actually do better than the Expectation without the aid of a computer. What they claim can be put down to Random .
What I object to is their incessant chanting that ONLY  vb can beat roulette.
Title: Re: Roulette Wheel is Beatable
Post by: Shakuni on June 07, 2015, 05:49:12 AM
Game never over is absolutely right about having a big bank roll and small profit targets. The example given by him  sets the profit target of 2.5 percent of the bank roll. For 10,000 bank roll winning 250 may sound very low but it is very easily achievable and it does adds up in long run. I dont think you even need a great startegy or full proof system to win 2.5% of your bank roll. Just know the game well and play smart you can win even 5% of your bank roll on daily basis..

Title: Re: Roulette Wheel is Beatable
Post by: Mike on June 07, 2015, 06:21:50 AM
Mike.
Your links show up a site which
1 ) Discusses computers. Do you use a compute or rely strictly on VB  ?
2 ) The "History " of roulette ? More like a short summary .  All history is capable of several interpretations.

Little by little, everyone on this forum (and all the others) will read through the true intentions of the so called AP-constant-winners players.
Hint: AP equipment is damn expensive and the lowest price starts at 1250 dollars. If any of these AP players successfully lure some naive player to buy one, probably gets provision (at least 30%) so: 1250 X 0.30 = 375 dollars! And this is from the cheapest ones. There are also gadgets from 80.000 dollars and the piece of the cake becomes 24.000 dollars. 10 pieces sold = 240.000 dollars KA-CHING! :)

Sorry to disappoint you, GNO, and to answer scepticus'  question, I don't recommend the use of computers. As I've already mentioned, it isn't necessary for VB, bias tracking, or dealer signature (and it's not even relevant for the last two AP methods). All a computer really does is to predict where the ball will exit the track, which can be done manually. I suspect that Real will agree with me. You don't even need to buy a metronome or "thumper" for wheel timings, although it can be of help for a newbie.

The only reason I directed you to that site was because there is a lot of information there and people with expertise, and even a free VB "system".  However, don't expect a warm welcome if you're a system player. ;-) Laurance Scott also has a forum and site, although I don't recall its url.

Any system or method should be judged on its merits, not on the motives of those who recommend them, and since GNO isn't capable of judging any AP method, he instead chooses to attack the messenger, while at the same time promoting his own system, which has no merit at all, as can easily be proved.

By the way, if you're investigating AP, stay away from Mark Howe and Steve (owner of VLSroulette and rouletteforum-cc). They are scammers.
Title: Re: Roulette Wheel is Beatable
Post by: Jesper on June 07, 2015, 06:25:13 AM
Game never over is absolutely right about having a big bank roll and small profit targets. The example given by him  sets the profit target of 2.5 percent of the bank roll. For 10,000 bank roll winning 250 may sound very low but it is very easily achievable and it does adds up in long run. I dont think you even need a great startegy or full proof system to win 2.5% of your bank roll. Just know the game well and play smart you can win even 5% of your bank roll on daily basis..

That may work, but not because the Daily play is limited. It is how the play is done. a few % may be the result due to carefully play. it is not as such low win% makes sucess.
Title: Re: Roulette Wheel is Beatable
Post by: kav on June 07, 2015, 09:11:26 AM
Game never over is absolutely right about having a big bank roll and small profit targets. The example given by him  sets the profit target of 2.5 percent of the bank roll. For 10,000 bank roll winning 250 may sound very low but it is very easily achievable and it does adds up in long run. I dont think you even need a great startegy or full proof system to win 2.5% of your bank roll. Just know the game well and play smart you can win even 5% of your bank roll on daily basis.

Hi Shakuni and welcome to the forum.
On one hand I totally agree that one should have low win target per session. It is the famous "just one chip" law. If you manage to win just one chip you have a winning system.
On the other hand the problem is still there most of the time. While you may win 99% of the times, usually that 1% can still destroy your previous profits.
That's why no matter if you play a dangerous system or a conservative system, the risk reward ratio (http://www.roulette30.com/2010/08/risk-of-ruin-calculation-for-roulette.html) at the end of the day is the same. As is the house advantage.

I'm not saying that it is impossible to practically win. I'm saying that it is impossible theoretically to have 100% certainty of winning.
Title: Re: Roulette Wheel is Beatable
Post by: GameNeverOver on June 07, 2015, 11:30:08 AM
GNO
 Computers can be a help in roulette prediction because some people have actually won lots of money using them.But if you are caught using them in a real casino you will be barred from  that casino and many more.
What I dispute is that OUR AP members can actually do better than the Expectation without the aid of a computer. What they claim can be put down to Random .
What I object to is their incessant chanting that ONLY  vb can beat roulette.

Using computers in casino is cheating. Even if you are using simple system and you are continually winning in ONE SAME CASINO, you'll rise flags and your ass will get kicked and banned to enter forever.
Real story about one man who was smart and patient enough to wait (and win) but wasn't smart enough to switch the casinos from time to time:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1218061/In-money-Gambler-banned-UK-casinos-winning-28-000-using-secret-system.html

Noone wants the winners. Winners are dangerous.
We don't need 200 IQ to realize that.
Title: Re: Roulette Wheel is Beatable
Post by: GameNeverOver on June 07, 2015, 11:36:42 AM
Game never over is absolutely right about having a big bank roll and small profit targets. The example given by him  sets the profit target of 2.5 percent of the bank roll. For 10,000 bank roll winning 250 may sound very low but it is very easily achievable and it does adds up in long run. I dont think you even need a great startegy or full proof system to win 2.5% of your bank roll. Just know the game well and play smart you can win even 5% of your bank roll on daily basis..

40 sessions can be played in one month. So, doubling of the initial bank can be done in 1 month.
Title: Re: Roulette Wheel is Beatable
Post by: GameNeverOver on June 07, 2015, 11:56:27 AM
@Kav and @Jesper
Never forget:
"Las Vegas is built on greed."

Jesper which casino is offering to bet 0.01 euro per number?
And what are the limits for the other bets?
Title: Re: Roulette Wheel is Beatable
Post by: GameNeverOver on June 07, 2015, 01:03:31 PM
One by one, I'll try to remember and write here all the approaches that I've come across through my lifetime.

Today I'm going to start with one interesting approach about which I've read on one other forum few years ago (can't remember which).

The guy that originally used this one was from Asia - China or Hong Kong. He was using this simple method:
1) he was waiting one dozen to repeat 6 times in a row (happens very rarely but does happen)
2) after the trigger appears he was using the aggressive 4 steps progression: 1-3-9-27 (80 units total) on the dozens which doesn't come up
3) his initial bankroll was 800.000 dollars (or eventually his local currency - I don't remember exactly) and his 1 unit was 5000 (the progression was; 5.000-15.000-45.000-135.000) dollars thus he was having enough money to come out alive from one bad session, but not two.

As he was writing his posts (they were kinda his diary) he get to more then 1.200.000 dollars in very short time and as he wrote he never encountered more then 9 repeats on dozen but expected to see 10 repeats, sooner or later.

What I remember about this guy is that:
1) he was never greedy. 2 to 3 units (10 to 15K) and he was out the casino.
2) he was never using the same casino over and over again. Let say: two days in one casino, and then he packed his bags and get to other, rival casino.
3) his goal was to double the initial 800K (to get to 1.600K) and then double the 1 unit value (from 5K to 10K).

What do you think about this approach?
Title: Re: Roulette Wheel is Beatable
Post by: Jesper on June 07, 2015, 01:37:20 PM
Never thought about betting that high.  Ten dozen in a row, will show, but it is possible to get a way with it.  Some just are lucky.
Title: Re: Roulette Wheel is Beatable
Post by: scepticus on June 07, 2015, 01:39:17 PM
Hi GNO
The guy you referred to who was banned from a casino in the UK was PROBABLY Balvinder Sambhi. You should know that he is a  seller of a "large " progression system. Some who bought his system said it was rubbish.You sometimes have to wait for ages before having a bet. Casinos do not , as a matter of policy, give reasons for anyone being banned so any claims of being banned for winning should be treated with caution, particularly claims by  system sellers .
Which leads me to your Asian winner. If six wins in a row for any dozen takes a long time how long do you need to wait before betting ? His idea may be profitable but any ONE individual may NEVER see six in a row .Patience may be a virtue but for anyone who likes a gamble  there are limits. Personally,  I will never adopt a strategy that might mean that I do not have even ONE bet the whole evening . Would you ? Really ?
Title: Re: Roulette Wheel is Beatable
Post by: palestis on June 07, 2015, 01:56:17 PM
Game never over is absolutely right about having a big bank roll and small profit targets. The example given by him  sets the profit target of 2.5 percent of the bank roll. For 10,000 bank roll winning 250 may sound very low but it is very easily achievable and it does adds up in long run. I dont think you even need a great startegy or full proof system to win 2.5% of your bank roll. Just know the game well and play smart you can win even 5% of your bank roll on daily basis.

Hi Shakuni and welcome to the forum.
On one hand I totally agree that one should have low win target per session. It is the famous "just one chip" law. If you manage to win just one chip you have a winning system.
On the other hand the problem is still there most of the time. While you may win 99% of the times, usually that 1% can still destroy your previous profits.
That's why no matter if you play a dangerous system or a conservative system, the risk reward ratio (http://www.roulette30.com/2010/08/risk-of-ruin-calculation-for-roulette.html) at the end of the day is the same. As is the house advantage.

I'm not saying that it is impossible to practically win. I'm saying that it is impossible theoretically to have 100% certainty of winning.
Yes a 99% win rate may seem impressive vs. the 1% possibility to lose . That 1% however can do great damage when it happens. And it does happen.
But that only happens if a progression is carried to its max or until all bank roll is allowed to be completely depleted thru a progression.
A much better and safer approach is to determine in advance a series of bets with progression, after a trigger has appeared. These series of bets have to be limited to a level where recovery can be easily achieved in the next round or the next few rounds. That way you never allow the 1% to do its damage. Those series of limited bets is called "the winning range" after a trigger has formed. And it can only be determined thru experience and long time research. It allows you to have a much better chance to hit the target, while limiting your exposure to a total disaster.
Lets not forget, there is always another cycle coming up after a rare cycle has happened.
What is extremely rare (if not impossible), is to run into RARE situations repeatedly cycle after cycle.
For example you may see in a score board or one of your score cards, that 5 black in a row turned to become 13,14, 15 black in a row.
I guarantee you that looking down further on the list you will never see that 5 black in a row become 13,14,15 once again.
Title: Re: Roulette Wheel is Beatable
Post by: GameNeverOver on June 07, 2015, 02:24:16 PM
Never thought about betting that high.  Ten dozen in a row, will show, but it is possible to get a way with it.  Some just are lucky.

Yes it happens but extremely rarely. Some of us won't have the opportunity to see that in our lifetimes.

But most of us have already seen or will see 6 or even 7 consecutive repeats on the same dozen from time to time.
Like he said, somewhere in the beginning he get to the third step of the progression and started to sweat when started to put the money on the table. But then he won. This (third step) was the furthest he got on his progression.

What I think is great about this approach is the fact that even if it eventually get to 11 repeats on the same dozen (statistically chances for something like this to happen is 1:250.000) but compared with the 1:1000 chances to see 6 dozens repeating and then make 1 unit profit in the next 4 spins, and additionally comparing the 1 in 250.000 (to hit 10 repeats in a row and lose the bank) to 1 in 1000 (to hit 6 repeats in a row and then make 1 unit profit) we get to 1 losing session (busting the bankroll) to 250 winning sessions. 1 winning session brings 1 unit X 250 winning sessions bring 250 units. 1 bust on the bankroll brings losing of 80 units.

IMO starting this approach with 3 bankrolls (3 X 80 units = 240 units) will be enough.

@Jesper you didn't tell me which casino do you use which allows to bet 0.01 euro on numbers? And what are the limits for the other bets?
Title: Re: Roulette Wheel is Beatable
Post by: GameNeverOver on June 07, 2015, 02:34:42 PM
By writing all these you gave me more than enough clues to understand your method.
I've tried to PM you but your mail box is full.
One of my methods is similar to yours,not ordinary at all!
We might speak outside...

I've tried to msg you but probably there is some problems with the system because it shows that your inbox is full too. :)
Title: Re: Roulette Wheel is Beatable
Post by: BlueAngel on June 07, 2015, 02:51:10 PM
By writing all these you gave me more than enough clues to understand your method.
I've tried to PM you but your mail box is full.
One of my methods is similar to yours,not ordinary at all!
We might speak outside...

I've tried to msg you but probably there is some problems with the system because it shows that your inbox is full too. :)

You can write me here: blueangelsystem@gmail.com
Title: Re: Roulette Wheel is Beatable
Post by: GameNeverOver on June 09, 2015, 07:08:38 AM
Ask an elder (if you know some living nearby) how to achieve something in life. Most of the time you'll receive the same answer: "You must be hardworking and patient." But we are strange generations. We are lazy generations. We are folks who want riches, power and everything that goes with it. But we are NOT ready to work for it. Most of the time most of the people just talk about it, do lots of daydreaming, do some shallow planning and never activate the plan. Why? The answer is simple but yet painful: whole humanity-we are just bunch of LAZY KIDS! We just talk about winning! We announce winning but never achieve it. The reason for this: we are afraid from failing. Even though we are grown ups, we are still acting like little kids, which when fall down start to cry and scream not because they are hurt but because they are programmed that if they cry and scream their parents will come running and pull them up and then hold tightly in their loving arms and get them home, where is warm and safe.

But the reality is totally opposite. Our parents are not here to provide safety. They are not here to pull us up when we fall. We must learn to do it ourselves. And even though its totally the opposite in the reality, most of the people negate this fact and continue to act like little lazy kids: they take credits from bank to buy things that they don't really need, without thinking how are they going to get the loan back. They just sign the paper, grab the money, pay for the thing, feel happy for few minutes and then, when month after a month they see how much from their payroll they pay to the bank (the longer the period for paying - the bigger the amount for interest they give away).

Its quite better if they, instead taking bank loan, to be patient and work till they collect the amount of money they need and buy the wanted thing in cash (there are stores which give discount when customers pays with cash-so this is making the situation even better).

So how all the written above is connected with roulette? It is. Just like everything else on this f***ing world is interconnected, this is directly connected with roulette playing. Somewhere in the beginning of this thread, I've mentioned that winning 2.5% from bankroll per session is good enough. Some of you agreed with me, most of you don't. I'm sorry that I'll write this, but I must write it:
if you think that growing your bankroll for 2.5% per session is small amount then you are not professional roulette player - you are a gambler. Yes, plain and simple. If you go to the casino and plan to grow you bankroll for 25 or 50% or even doubling your bankroll every time you enter the casino, then you are in deep deep trouble. I'm sorry in advance for all the problems and tough times that you and your family are going to get through because this bad behavior of yours.

What if this same mindset was possessed from the professional traders on the Stock exchange? What if the professional sports bettors had this mindset? They won't be called professional trader and sports bettor but GAMBLERS. Why I've mentioned these two professions? Because I got some little experience in the first and little more in the second and I'm able to write about it.

Have you ever thought how are the traders making their profits? Many connect traders with the character from the "Wolf from Wall Street" but in reality its little different. Yes, there are cases where speculations are taking place, but most of the time it is the free market that form the share prices. Professional traders make their profits in two ways:
1) dividend yield (big players do this)
2) difference in share prices (buy low - sell high) - this is used mostly.
What are professional traders actually doing?
They connect to their accounts from where they manage their portfolios. After that they start to collect data about companies. After they've collected the data, they analyze and choose where to invest. They are investing in shares which they expect that the share price will grow in the near future. They are never investing in shares from just one company: they diversify the risk by buying shares from multiple companies, from 10 to 100, some of them buys even more. Example: Lets say that they invested in 20 companies. They bought 50 shares from each company and each of the shares was 100 dollars worth. Total investment: 100.000 dollars. They expect in one month to see rise in the prices of all the shares that they possess, but they KNOW with certainty that they can't win 100% of the time. After one month, the share price of 10 companies rose from 100 to 130 and they used this positive trend and sold them, the share price of 5 companies dropped down from 100 to 80 so they've decided to sell them too to cover potential big loses and they let the shares from the remaining 5 companies because their price was stable and there was potential for a rise in next month. If you do the maths, you'll notice that the portfolio from the initial 100.000 dollars now is worth 110.000 dollars and it grew for 10% in a month. Honestly, 10% profit in professional trading is considered huge because of the big amounts of money that are in play. But what if the traders possessed that "get rich" mindset that most of us, roulette players possess? They'll analyze and pick one company. They will buy 1.000 shares from that company and invest all 100.000 dollars in that company. And, if they've chosen right, the price will go up and they will make profits. But if they've chosen wrong they will lose big money. That's why they diversify the risk and don't try to bite more than they can chew.

How are the things in the sports betting? Different bettor have different approach in sports betting. In the following I'm going to write about one approach that is used by most of the bettors across the globe. Its the "54%" rule. Following this rule: all it takes for one bettor to be successful is to pick his picks right 54% of the time (single picks with minimum odd 1.90). If he manages to pick 54% right, then he will achieve profit in that betting season. Did I mention "season"? Yes I do! Actually in sports betting the professional bettor is interested in the overall result of the bankroll at the end of the season then the mid-season result. They know there will be ups and downs and all they care about is picking right 54% of the time. Everything below this number is bad business and everything beyond this number is a reason plus to stay committed to what he is already doing - because obviously he is doing the right thing. Example: The bettor is expert in NBA and pays subscriptions for NHL and MLB picks. All in all he has 1.500 picks in one year (betting season) total. He and the guys selling him picks manages to pick right 57% of the time. The situation at the end of the season is like this: 1.500 bets X 100 dollars per bet = 150.000 dollars. 1.500 bets X 0.57 = 855 winners. 855 winners X 1.90 X 100 = 162.450 won - 150.000 = 12.450 dollars profit - 2.000 for subscriptions = 10.450 dollars net profit. Why I've mentioned professional sports bettor here? Because they are never putting all the initial bankroll on just one bet. Most of the time they diversify the risk with betting only 1-2.5% from the bank and the big players put this number even lower - 0.25%-0.5% from the bankroll (this is the only way to ensure the get alive after a bad streak of more then 100 consecutive losing bets).

What most of the roulette players need is adopting a new mindset. They must start looking on the wheel with more respect. They must be patient and implement lots of hard thinking. The 2.5% growing of initial bankroll is much less then 25 or 50% growing the bankroll but it is much easier to achieve and involve less stress. Plus take a look on the story about that guy from Asia: his session goal ranged from 1-3 units or 0.63%-1.89% and with low session goal like this he managed to grow his bankroll from 800K to 1.200K (for 50%) in little more then one month.

Just a little hint: add one more bankroll (instead 2 X 80 units, use 3 X 80 units, just in case) and lower the unit size from 5000 to 50 or 100 dollars and you'll make 30 units X 50 or 100 dollars = 1.500 or 3.000 dollars in profits per month. Not that bad a? :)

And the final conclusion:
even if you still haven't found the all-the-time winning approach, maybe you have discovered the very best next to it approach. What is the very best next to it approach? The one that brings even a little more then the final bust of the bankroll. What do I mean with this? I mean the approach that earns you more then the amount of your bankroll before your initial bankroll is busted. Example: if you have found an approach which earns you +1.050 dollars before losing the initial 1.000 dollars then you have a winning approach with 105% ROI, and even though this 105% is very little - little by little it piles up and from 1.050 dollars they can grow to 1.102 dollars and after that to 1.157 dollars and then to 1.215 dollars etc.

After all: roulette is not a sprint - its a marathon.

All the best,
=GNO=
Title: Re: Roulette Wheel is Beatable
Post by: GameNeverOver on June 09, 2015, 07:39:16 AM
Hi GNO
The guy you referred to who was banned from a casino in the UK was PROBABLY Balvinder Sambhi. You should know that he is a  seller of a "large " progression system. Some who bought his system said it was rubbish.You sometimes have to wait for ages before having a bet. Casinos do not , as a matter of policy, give reasons for anyone being banned so any claims of being banned for winning should be treated with caution, particularly claims by  system sellers .
Which leads me to your Asian winner. If six wins in a row for any dozen takes a long time how long do you need to wait before betting ? His idea may be profitable but any ONE individual may NEVER see six in a row .Patience may be a virtue but for anyone who likes a gamble  there are limits. Personally,  I will never adopt a strategy that might mean that I do not have even ONE bet the whole evening . Would you ? Really ?

Hey @Scepticus. Sorry about this late response. About the UK winner, thats him. I've heard that he was selling a book in which he explains his system, but because personally I don't believe that anyone is going to sell something that is profitable I never tried to find out anything else about this guy. Plus, even if he was banned from that casino, there are at least two thousand more across the globe where he can use his system and earn. :) I thought the same that you've mentioned: no matter what was the reason for he to get banned, he used it to get publicity and sell his book.

About the Asian guy, this is a approach that he was using and he was quite successful with it. Personally, currently I wouldn't use this too because I'm young and quite busy person and don't have the required time to sit and wait for 6 repeats on the dozens (sometimes it will happen right in the beginning, but most of the time it won't). But this is great system for the unemployed or the old and retired which honestly don't do anything and most of the time in the day they spend in front of the TV. This way they can spend their days in the casino, enjoy eating and drinking the free lunches and drinks, chatting with other players and stuff and all this without big risk for their bankroll (honestly, if you take a closer look on this system especially the modified approach with 3 X 80 units instead of the 2 X 80 units, you'll realize that it has big potential and might be long-term winner.).

Have a profitable day,
=GNO=
Title: Re: Roulette Wheel is Beatable
Post by: dobbelsteen on June 09, 2015, 09:17:19 AM
GNO I am old and retired and adicted to the roulette since many years. My study of all the in and outs of the roulette gives me a lot pleasure. My knowledge of programming is a very good help.
I have my casino on walk distance and sometimes I play every day. Yes I have the privilege of free drinks.

I play roulette like chess.  The table has 157 different chances. The manner how you play is infinite.
Roulette is a game nothing more or less.
Title: Re: Roulette Wheel is Beatable
Post by: GameNeverOver on June 09, 2015, 03:55:23 PM
GNO I am old and retired and adicted to the roulette since many years. My study of all the in and outs of the roulette gives me a lot pleasure. My knowledge of programming is a very good help.
I have my casino on walk distance and sometimes I play every day. Yes I have the privilege of free drinks.

I play roulette like chess.  The table has 157 different chances. The manner how you play is infinite.
Roulette is a game nothing more or less.

Mister Dobbelsteen its a pleasure to know that we have elder on board. :) Where are you from btw? the -steen at the end of your nickname is alluding to Germany or Netherlands..

Roulette is a strategy game. You need to wait, observe, analyze and hit only when the conditions are right. Full strong but premature attack will result with counterattack from the wheel that will destroy our bankroll and self-esteem.

Have a nice day Mr Elder. :)
=GNO=
Title: Re: Roulette Wheel is Beatable
Post by: BlueAngel on June 09, 2015, 03:59:07 PM
Game never over is absolutely right about having a big bank roll and small profit targets. The example given by him  sets the profit target of 2.5 percent of the bank roll. For 10,000 bank roll winning 250 may sound very low but it is very easily achievable and it does adds up in long run. I dont think you even need a great startegy or full proof system to win 2.5% of your bank roll. Just know the game well and play smart you can win even 5% of your bank roll on daily basis.

Hi Shakuni and welcome to the forum.
On one hand I totally agree that one should have low win target per session. It is the famous "just one chip" law. If you manage to win just one chip you have a winning system.
On the other hand the problem is still there most of the time. While you may win 99% of the times, usually that 1% can still destroy your previous profits.
That's why no matter if you play a dangerous system or a conservative system, the risk reward ratio (http://www.roulette30.com/2010/08/risk-of-ruin-calculation-for-roulette.html) at the end of the day is the same. As is the house advantage.

I'm not saying that it is impossible to practically win. I'm saying that it is impossible theoretically to have 100% certainty of winning.

That's true,profits from gambling is not like compounding interest of savings account!
If someone wants 2.5% guaranteed,then look no further because there are lot of banks out there.

at GNO
After the big  bankroll and the tiny profits target I don't think your method would be so valuable.

For example you are a general and you have an army of 10000,then your strategy is to raid villages of 50 up to 150 people,you never fight a large army because you afraid of losing.
So you employ this tactic of raiding villages,killing helpless,a hit and run tactic,but this kind of strategy is not clever,nor great,neither honorable.
It's the strategy of thieves,'hit and run' is NOT the professional mentality.
Great generals deployed great strategies and achieved great victories,NOT by simply having a big army on their back.
Alexander the Great won many battles by NOT been favored by numbers,crushed armies greater than his,that's why became GREAT.
Consider money management as armies management,the successful general can do well with the few too.

''Managing the many is as managing the few,it's matter of organization.'' Sun Tzu,by his book ''The Art Of War''
Title: Re: Roulette Wheel is Beatable
Post by: GameNeverOver on June 09, 2015, 04:51:58 PM
Game never over is absolutely right about having a big bank roll and small profit targets. The example given by him  sets the profit target of 2.5 percent of the bank roll. For 10,000 bank roll winning 250 may sound very low but it is very easily achievable and it does adds up in long run. I dont think you even need a great startegy or full proof system to win 2.5% of your bank roll. Just know the game well and play smart you can win even 5% of your bank roll on daily basis.

Hi Shakuni and welcome to the forum.
On one hand I totally agree that one should have low win target per session. It is the famous "just one chip" law. If you manage to win just one chip you have a winning system.
On the other hand the problem is still there most of the time. While you may win 99% of the times, usually that 1% can still destroy your previous profits.
That's why no matter if you play a dangerous system or a conservative system, the risk reward ratio (http://www.roulette30.com/2010/08/risk-of-ruin-calculation-for-roulette.html) at the end of the day is the same. As is the house advantage.

I'm not saying that it is impossible to practically win. I'm saying that it is impossible theoretically to have 100% certainty of winning.

That's true,profits from gambling is not like compounding interest of savings account!
If someone wants 2.5% guaranteed,then look no further because there are lot of banks out there.

at GNO
After the big  bankroll and the tiny profits target I don't think your method would be so valuable.

For example you are a general and you have an army of 10000,then your strategy is to raid villages of 50 up to 150 people,you never fight a large army because you afraid of losing.
So you employ this tactic of raiding villages,killing helpless,a hit and run tactic,but this kind of strategy is not clever,nor great,neither honorable.
It's the strategy of thieves,'hit and run' is NOT the professional mentality.
Great generals deployed great strategies and achieved great victories,NOT by simply having a big army on their back.
Alexander the Great won many battles by NOT been favored by numbers,crushed armies greater than his,that's why became GREAT.
Consider money management as armies management,the successful general can do well with the few too.

''Managing the many is as managing the few,it's matter of organization.'' Sun Tzu,by his book ''The Art Of War''

Actually the banks are offering a lot less then 2.5% interest PER YEAR, not per day. There is a big difference (2.5% daily interest is somewhat similar to 900% yearly interest, without using daily compounding. :)

Alexander The Great is one of my favorite history characters. He was brave warrior and fearless leader. He was always fighting on the front line, surrounded by his most loyal companions. Yes, he had small army (around 40K) and crushed the Darius army of slaves (around 250K) but the victory wasn't due dumb bravery - it was due strategy: 1st Alexander knew that the morals in Darius army are low and he can easily crush their spirit - if you ever was in a fight in your life against few cowards you know what happens after punching the first one in the face - the same thing happened after several hundred Persians were killed :) ); 2nd the crutial battle that Alexander won against Darius was in rocky ravine - which was good for Alexander's small army but not for Darius's large one. After this battle lots of the people enslaved by Darius joined to Alexander's army and his army grew in numbers. I have the book about Alexander's life written from the Greek historian Plutarch and if you have time, I recommend you to find it and read it: lots of things will become clearer about this remarkable guy.

About the example you gave: being a general, having army of 10.000, attacking small villages, hit and run.. You've just explained Genghis Khan's way of fighting. And, as you probably know he almost conquered the whole known world (in that time) using this way of fighting. Not that bad after all, isn't it? :)

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-tYYABZf9bFk/TzTKZJOqqjI/AAAAAAAABH0/M8a1QN6GVKU/w751-h591/hk.8.png)
Title: Re: Roulette Wheel is Beatable
Post by: BlueAngel on June 09, 2015, 05:30:51 PM

I'm Greek and I've grew up with the tales of Homer's "Iliad","Odyssey",Alexander's the Great conquest,Greek mythology.
However,I've to admit that the greater achievement of the Genghis Han was not the expansion over 3 continents,but the unity of the myriad step tribes,without this he wouldn't be able to conquer even his own territory,let alone the world.
Also you forgot that a similar achievement have already accomplished by another barbarian tribe which based mostly in the superiority of numbers,the Huns with their leader Attila.
Attila have accomplished almost the same,if not a bit greater, expansion roughly 8 centuries earlier than Genghis Han.
But if you really want to learn something,you should focus on characters like Alexander the great,Odysseus and not as Attila and Genghis Han.
I'd rather try to be an Alexander or Odysseus in smaller scale rather than be a Genghis Han with  the "hit and run" thievery mentality.
Title: Re: Roulette Wheel is Beatable
Post by: GameNeverOver on June 09, 2015, 05:57:51 PM
Somehow I knew that you are going to mention Greek mythology. :) Tell me: how Troy was conquered? Was it bravery, honor and fighting in the open? Or it was the Trojan Horse that Greeks used to enter the city, take the gates, open them and let other soldiers enter and slaughter everyone inside. Where is here the honor you've been talking about? :)

Mentioning Attila The Hun (the Scourge of God) just proves right what I've already said before.

IMO
I'd rather conquer the little countries - one by one and slowly build my Empire, ensuring its permanent existence even without my presence in the meanwhile then just hitting on the strong and big ones and take my chances. Hitler made this mistake in the WWII: in the beginning he just annexed Austria and noone cared. Then he conquered Czechoslovakia. The countries around the world start to think that he ambitions are growing big. Then he split Poland with Stalin's Soviets and made a non-attacking pact with the russians, this way ensuring that his back is covered while he is conquering Africa and UK, and after that the US. But somewhere in the meanwhile Hitler gone full retard and attacked the Russians which were enjoying their vodka. He took his chances (your approach) and start fighting on two fronts: on the east with Soviet Union, on west trying to break the english resistance. But then winter came, the chances turned against Hitler and his army started to withdraw from Soviet Union's territories. After this, everyone knows what happened. :)

Taking your chances is called gambling - going step by step and easy is called investing.
I'll always prefer the latter.
Title: Re: Roulette Wheel is Beatable
Post by: BlueAngel on June 09, 2015, 06:36:34 PM
A lot small wins could be negate by 1 big loss, lot of money alone cannot guarantee the success and this is true for everything,not only gambling.
If money alone was the key to success,then the only thing everyone would ever need to succeed would be money,but of course this is far from true.
Just consider how many gamblers lost fortunes,amounts which exceed the average annual salary have been lost in a single day,what a waste!
Consider how many businesses failed,got bankrupted but their initial capital was sufficiently enough in order to develop their business in time,but they failed because of bad management.
How many investors lost huge amounts because of bad management,a lot.
So there is something common in all the real examples I've mentioned above,money/budget/capital/bankroll,no matter how you want to call it,is NOT the key to success,on the opposite side of the "coin" there are examples who begun from scratch,literally next to nothing and build a fortune gradually.
According to you,a big bankroll in combination with 2.5% profit is the key to success in gambling,personally speaking 2.5% doesn't worth to bother at all,perhaps is good for some desperate folks.
I could invest immediately my capital in terms account for a year and gain 10% net risk free if I wanted.
Why such relatively low percentages make sense only for the casinos and/or banks?
Because the casinos receive these low percentages on the total action,which means hundreds of thousands per month and don't tell me that is the same thing to receive 2.7% from 1,000 and 2.7% from 100,000!
You want to be Calif in the place of Calif,but guess what,you are NOT and you can never apply the casinos policy in your terms,scale!
Title: Re: Roulette Wheel is Beatable
Post by: GameNeverOver on June 09, 2015, 06:54:43 PM
A lot small wins could be negate by 1 big loss, lot of money alone cannot guarantee the success and this is true for everything,not only gambling.
If money alone was the key to success,then the only thing everyone would ever need to succeed would be money,but of course this is far from true.
Just consider how many gamblers lost fortunes,amounts which exceed the average annual salary have been lost in a single day,what a waste!
Consider how many businesses failed,got bankrupted but their initial capital was sufficiently enough in order to develop their business in time,but they failed because of bad management.
How many investors lost huge amounts because of bad management,a lot.
So there is something common in all the real examples I've mentioned above,money/budget/capital/bankroll,no matter how you want to call it,is NOT the key to success,on the opposite side of the "coin" there are examples who begun from scratch,literally next to nothing and build a fortune gradually.
According to you,a big bankroll in combination with 2.5% profit is the key to success in gambling,personally speaking 2.5% doesn't worth to bother at all,perhaps is good for some desperate folks.
I could invest immediately my capital in terms account for a year and gain 10% net risk free if I wanted.
Why such relatively low percentages make sense only for the casinos and/or banks?
Because the casinos receive these low percentages on the total action,which means hundreds of thousands per month and don't tell me that is the same thing to receive 2.7% from 1,000 and 2.7% from 100,000!
You want to be Calif in the place of Calif,but guess what,you are NOT and you can never apply the casinos policy in your terms,scale!

Lots of "spinning talk" here. Don't do that bro. :)

Tell me one thing: are these "terms accounts" you've mentioned the same like "investment funds"? If yes, there is risk involved here too. Even though there are funds that grow 10% annually, there comes time when the traders which make the decisions make few mistakes and all the funds transform into air, and it is clearly written in the deal that you've signed "if loss occur, they are not obligated to repay your investment". :)

About the 2.5% daily or per session goal: 10.000 units with 2.5% session goal can turn into 90.000+ units in one year (if you manage to play every day) without changing the bet size when bankroll doubled or tripled up. Tell me: is there a investment fund or bank that will pay me that much for one year? If there are any, I'll go there and spend few hours every day. :)
Title: Re: Roulette Wheel is Beatable
Post by: BlueAngel on June 09, 2015, 07:43:31 PM
There is no risk free profit with such interest (2.5 x 365= 912.5% per annum),you make approximately 9 times your capital per year and it's better than average expected profit,but what you are missing is the relationship between risk and reward.
This ratio should be always balanced,balanced means not to try winning a larger amount of what you are willing to risk,neither to have a large capital at risk in order to claim a relatively low return,in both cases there is an unbalance which leads sooner or later to economic failure.
I'm advocating the balance between everything (relationships,business,investments,gambling...etc) and I'll continue to do so for the rest of my life.
Title: Re: Roulette Wheel is Beatable
Post by: GameNeverOver on June 09, 2015, 08:15:08 PM
There is no risk free profit with such interest (2.5 x 365= 912.5% per annum),you make approximately 9 times your capital per year and it's better than average expected profit,but what you are missing is the relationship between risk and reward.
This ratio should be always balanced,balanced means not to try winning a larger amount of what you are willing to risk,neither to have a large capital at risk in order to claim a relatively low return,in both cases there is an unbalance which leads sooner or later to economic failure.
I'm advocating the balance between everything (relationships,business,investments,gambling...etc) and I'll continue to do so for the rest of my life.

Now we are talking. Balance in life is a must. :) Lets get little deeper in this "balance" thing. You've mentioned that you are Greek. The avg monthly salary in Greece is around 1000 euro (spendable money - without the money that goes to the Retiring Funds and the Health Insurance). For this 1.000 euro you are going to work 5 to 6 days in the week, spending 8 hours on average per day + 1-2 hours driving to the work and back = 10 hours. If we take into account that you are lucky enough to work 22 days in the month (most of the people work 26), you are working 176 hours. You are earning around 5.70 euro per hour. Lets compare this with playing on roulette but using the "investing" approach. Lets assume that the goal of every session is not winning 2.5% from the initial bankroll, but "plus one unit and run" (which in the case that follows will be 10 times less). If your bankroll is 10.000 euro and you split it into 400 units (25 euro each) non aggressive progression that in thousands and thousands of testings showed that it on average earns +1 unit on 2 hours (waiting for the trigger and then playing your bet selection). So, in two hours you expect to earn 25 euro / 2 = 12.5 euro per hour: more then twice the amount of money you earn working some mechanical, pointless and going-nowhere job.
What if these 10.000 were 100.000 euro (1 unit = 250 euro)?
Or like in the Asian guy case: 800.000 dollars(1 unit would be 2000 dollars - more then most of the AMERICANS earn monthly)?
What if instead 2 hours, you spend 4 or 6 hours in the casino and this way you double or even triple this +1 unit and turning it into +2 or +3 units (50 or 75 euro)?
Little help: if you manage to earn 12.5 euro on avg, you'll earn 2.200 euro in that same 176 hours you spend on work. And its 2.2 times bigger amount then the 1.000 euro you earn working. Plus the free drinks and meals. :)
Do you see the big picture now?

I hope you do, because most of the people don't and they treat the casinos like places where they go to buy their expensive adrenaline shots.

All the best,
=GNO=
Title: Re: Roulette Wheel is Beatable
Post by: Jesper on June 09, 2015, 08:30:00 PM
exponential function is something the brain has some difficulties with.  Such a functions goes
at infinity or zero allways, just a matter of time.

It we use it against limited matters, it must crash.

If the World population should rise just over 2% a year, it will take a few hundred years until we
all have one Square meter space.

If the energy consumption rise wit 7% a year, it has a doubling time of ten years., Meaning we will in ten year use more than ever since .

The chess problem, we put a grain on the first Square double up. When we come to the middle
India total yearly production will be just enough, The last will demand over 1000 years of World harvest.

The modern society is in the "middle of the chessboard"  Words we can google.
All  positive change in the speed  if so very near zero, will stop rather soon due to we can not overcome lightspeed.  Percent grow is a dangerous matter, it crash 100%.

Doubling time very few even Think of in banks or in parlaments, it is just mission impossible to
expect it to work more than  a while.
Title: Re: Roulette Wheel is Beatable
Post by: BlueAngel on June 09, 2015, 10:30:39 PM
@ GNO,
I assume your way requires something rare to happen first and then to bet.
Personally speaking,it's not my cup of coffee because I'm fond of active and productive betting methods.
Let's make a few things clear:
1) By saying balance between risk and reward,I don't mean to double my entire bankroll but to approximately double my session's bankroll.
For example,if someone plays 3 sessions everyday,then each session bankroll should be 1/9 of the total bankroll,if someone plays 1 session per day,his session bankroll should be 1/3 of his entire bankroll.
This ratio for what I'm doing is sufficient enough,while for other kind of betting methods/systems could not be sufficient,thus it's relevant.
2) By saying I'm fond of active and productive betting methods,this doesn't mean that waiting for a rare trigger bet opportunity will fail,it's just not my style.
3) Such a method (rare trigger) might not lose,but yet to produce less profits than a more active method which is losing from time to time.
4) By saying more active and productive,I don't mean to bet each and every spin (this is one extreme side) but neither to wait 2 hours in order to place a single bet which it might wins (this is the other extreme side)

Title: Re: Roulette Wheel is Beatable
Post by: scepticus on June 09, 2015, 10:40:21 PM
Well, this discussion is in the right section - and interesting. As often happens ,I think it comes down to a matter of opinion  which is often based on the individual's attitude to risk.
Title: Re: Roulette Wheel is Beatable
Post by: GameNeverOver on June 09, 2015, 11:40:33 PM
exponential function is something the brain has some difficulties with.  Such a functions goes
at infinity or zero allways, just a matter of time.

It we use it against limited matters, it must crash.

If the World population should rise just over 2% a year, it will take a few hundred years until we
all have one Square meter space.

If the energy consumption rise wit 7% a year, it has a doubling time of ten years., Meaning we will in ten year use more than ever since .

The chess problem, we put a grain on the first Square double up. When we come to the middle
India total yearly production will be just enough, The last will demand over 1000 years of World harvest.

The modern society is in the "middle of the chessboard"  Words we can google.
All  positive change in the speed  if so very near zero, will stop rather soon due to we can not overcome lightspeed.  Percent grow is a dangerous matter, it crash 100%.

Doubling time very few even Think of in banks or in parlaments, it is just mission impossible to
expect it to work more than  a while.

Wait..what?!
Title: Re: Roulette Wheel is Beatable
Post by: Trilobite on June 10, 2015, 12:05:36 AM

I'm Greek

I  think you will find GNO is also Greek.

Hello Viper old friend, your English has improved slightly through your writings.
Title: Re: Roulette Wheel is Beatable
Post by: BlueAngel on June 10, 2015, 12:24:16 AM

I'm Greek

I  think you will find GNO is also Greek.

Hello Viper old friend, your English has improved slightly through your writings.

You too?!
Well this forum hosts a major Greek community,why don't we start writing on Greek??
Kavouras would have his objections though,but he is Greek too!
Title: Re: Roulette Wheel is Beatable
Post by: GameNeverOver on June 10, 2015, 12:57:12 AM
@ GNO,
I assume your way requires something rare to happen first and then to bet.
Personally speaking,it's not my cup of coffee because I'm fond of active and productive betting methods.
Let's make a few things clear:
1) By saying balance between risk and reward,I don't mean to double my entire bankroll but to approximately double my session's bankroll.
For example,if someone plays 3 sessions everyday,then each session bankroll should be 1/9 of the total bankroll,if someone plays 1 session per day,his session bankroll should be 1/3 of his entire bankroll.
This ratio for what I'm doing is sufficient enough,while for other kind of betting methods/systems could not be sufficient,thus it's relevant.
2) By saying I'm fond of active and productive betting methods,this doesn't mean that waiting for a rare trigger bet opportunity will fail,it's just not my style.
3) Such a method (rare trigger) might not lose,but yet to produce less profits than a more active method which is losing from time to time.
4) By saying more active and productive,I don't mean to bet each and every spin (this is one extreme side) but neither to wait 2 hours in order to place a single bet which it might wins (this is the other extreme side)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6E2hYDIFDIU (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6E2hYDIFDIU)

My way is my way. I'm not here to discuss it. I've said enough times that I've found a working system and I'm not planning to sharing nor selling it here or anywhere else. Additionally, if someone somewhere, few or several years from now comes and STATES that he is actually me and he is selling a winning system NEVER EVER BUY IT(!) because first it wouldn't be me and second noone is selling something that is actually working. NEVER!

My way is my way. Every one on this planet has his own destiny path that he must recognize and walk on it. And after that..you know: R(otting)I(n)P(eace). :)

Now let me get inside your subconsciousness and try to discover your darkest and dirtiest secrets:
1) if someone..lets assume that its you.. If you are playing 3 sessions per day and you are having session bankroll which is 1/9 from the main bankroll, following your statement "approximately doubling the session bankroll", then you are aiming to win approximately 11.11% from your main bankroll per session: better said your session goal in "3 sessions per day scenario" is approximately 11.11% from your main bankroll.
If, instead 3 sessions, you play one bigger and longer session, and once again we get back to your statement "approximately doubling the session bankroll" - which in this case is 1/3 from the main bankroll. "Approximately doubling the session bankroll" means growing your main bankroll for 1/3 (the amount of the session bankroll) or for approximately 33.33%: long story short, your session goal in this "one session per day" case is approximately 33.33% from your main bankroll. (check)

2) I'll leave this for the end.

3) I'll always choose the first choice between these two:
a) (small and consistent profits) + (very small risk for losing the entire bankroll) - what I'm writing about in the last 10 posts in this thread
and
b) (potential moderate to big profits) + (losing your entire bankroll is just behind the corner!) - what you've written in your last post. (check)

4) You must train yourself and turn the waiting for the trigger into pleasure time - not torture time. :) You must:
- learn to meditate while in crowds
- learn not to overthink about the numbers spun, the conversations around you, the looks of the dealer, the noise
- learn to relax and use these 2+/- hours to observe the tables and in the meanwhile think on other things and this way you'll be extra productive. Personally, what I do when I'm waiting for the trigger (or waiting something or someone else (girlfriend/wife/mistress) in life) is this: writing poetry, thinking about scenes for the two books I'm working on currently (they are not connected with roulette), trying to remember something funny that happened in the past week/month/year. You can do whatever works for you. (check)

And finally we got to the end alive. :) AND THE OSCAR GOES TO!

2) You are gambler bro. I'm not insulting you. And I want to apologize if somehow I insult you or hurt your feelings. Honestly it wasn't my intention..
But everything that you've said in the few last posts lead me to that conclusion.
1st thing: you are a system player but don't have the patience to wait. This is contradiction because most of the successful system players know that PATIENCE is a must (even Reuth noticed this when yesterday used the cold numbers in the new experiment with the "Kav Bet")
2nd thing: you aim to high in your daily sessions. Aiming too much means pushing yourself too much. And probably you know: like everything else in our lives - pushing is fine till you overdo it. Balance in life means little to no stress and balance is what you strive for in life!
3rd thing: you'd rather choose to use an approach which brings you bigger profits but will lose from time to time then an approach that brings smaller profits but (might) not lose never. This statement of yours says everything and I don't need to add nothing more to it.

I think that you should change your mindset asap. But its my opinion and you are not in any way obligated to appreciate it or change something based on it.

Its your life - your rules - your opinion - your actions - your joys and regrets thanks to those actions.
Its your way. :)

P.S. If you managed to grow your bankroll the way you've mentioned in the beginning of your post, you must be hell of a rich guy.
Ex. 10.000 units bankroll.
Winning 33.33% session goal = 3.333 units
200 sessions per year (you must take few days off from time to time to spend some of all those money!)
Total won = 200 X 3.333 = 666.600 units (if two more 6's appeared in that number then..)
Grow of the bankroll: 6.666% (after thousands of posts, the Devil finally appeared on his workplace).
If 1 unit is 25$ then we are talking about 16.665.000 dollars in just one year, with re sizing the bet amount after the bankroll's doubled/tripled/quadripled etc..

P.S. the IInd I'm not sarcastic in the P.S.
Title: Re: Roulette Wheel is Beatable
Post by: GameNeverOver on June 10, 2015, 12:58:39 AM

I'm Greek

I  think you will find GNO is also Greek.

Hello Viper old friend, your English has improved slightly through your writings.

Nope, GNO is not Greek. :)

Who is Viper btw?
Title: Re: Roulette Wheel is Beatable
Post by: BlueAngel on June 10, 2015, 01:42:23 AM
Quote
My way is my way. I'm not here to discuss it. I've said enough times that I've found a working system and I'm not planning to sharing nor selling it here or anywhere else. Additionally, if someone somewhere, few or several years from now comes and STATES that he is actually me and he is selling a winning system NEVER EVER BUY IT(!) because first it wouldn't be me and second noone is selling something that is actually working. NEVER!

I totally agree with this statement,but there are lads like Reyth who are trying to endorse certain system...just take a look at: "my first games with Kav bet"!
I'm saying right now as a warning to both of you,Reyth and Kavouras,if you try to deny what I'm saying,think twice because I've proof of what I'm saying!

What you are using GNO is good as long as you don't have a better way to get an advantage,yes your way is your way and I don't want you to tell me any details.
By the way,I write poetry too,it's one of my hobbies,I've also published a poems' anthology on Amazon among other works of mine.

PS Who is Viper?
Title: Re: Roulette Wheel is Beatable
Post by: GameNeverOver on June 10, 2015, 02:00:31 AM
Quote
My way is my way. I'm not here to discuss it. I've said enough times that I've found a working system and I'm not planning to sharing nor selling it here or anywhere else. Additionally, if someone somewhere, few or several years from now comes and STATES that he is actually me and he is selling a winning system NEVER EVER BUY IT(!) because first it wouldn't be me and second noone is selling something that is actually working. NEVER!

I totally agree with this statement,but there are lads like Reyth who are trying to endorse certain system...just take a look at: "my first games with Kav bet"!
I'm saying right now as a warning to both of you,Reyth and Kavouras,if you try to deny what I'm saying,think twice because I've proof of what I'm saying!

What you are using GNO is good as long as you don't have a better way to get an advantage,yes your way is your way and I don't want you to tell me any details.
By the way,I write poetry too,it's one of my hobbies,I've also published a poems' anthology on Amazon among other works of mine.

PS Who is Viper?

You think that Kav and Reyth will try to sell the modified "Kav Bet"? I think that if they do try, they'll ruin their reputation here because Kav mentioned few times that he is totally against someone selling systems here - which I totally support(reasons are well known)! But honestly, I think they won't do that. Why? Because "Kav Bet" is already a "open source" system and Reyth is doing his testings/experiment without hiding anything from us.

About Viper, I don't know who is this guy. But from the written in Trilobite's post, I think that he thinks that I'm actually that guy Viper. :)
Title: Re: Roulette Wheel is Beatable
Post by: BlueAngel on June 10, 2015, 02:47:40 AM

Reyth said:
"This is my official notice to put me in for an advanced order of the Kavouras Bet System when it is released!"

BlueAngel said: "Since you already using it and having so good profits why to order something you already have/use??"

Reyth replied:

"Because:
1) The roulette wisdom required to create a system like this will have understood things about this system that I have yet to comprehend.

2) As a gesture of gratitude and in return for providing me a means to create income independence.

3) As a group in a private forum, we can discuss various issues regarding practical application (casinos get mad when you win alot, multiple casino betting strategies on a schedule, etc.) & efficiency."

Kav said: " I plan to post the full Kavouras strategy in a micro site, but that will require paid membership. I hope to launch it before the summer."

What's that??! A paid membership??
What's the matter, "Kav bet" cannot provide you enough profit and you want to receive paid memberships and commissions from advertisements??
One of the main reasons I've joined this forum was because it WAS add-free,now it's not.
Kav,I have read a post of yours at another roulette forum and you have spoke very well to the Steve Hourmouzis by stating: "..you use this forum as pitch sale for your roulette computers"
I really want to congratulate you Kav for daring to say the truth no matter the consequences,but your public image is getting worse when you are trying to do the very same mistake which you have accused Stefanos Hourmouzis.
By the way,I'm really sad of the fact that S. Hourmouzis is Greek like me,but this is another story...!
Title: Re: Roulette Wheel is Beatable
Post by: GameNeverOver on June 10, 2015, 03:03:53 AM
What's that??! A paid membership??
What's the matter, "Kav bet" cannot provide you enough profit and you want to receive paid memberships and commissions from advertisements??
One of the main reasons I've joined this forum was because it WAS add-free,now it's not.
Kav,I have read a post of yours at another roulette forum and you have spoke very well to the Steve Hourmouzis by stating: "..you use this forum as pitch sale for your roulette computers"
I really want to congratulate you Kav for daring to say the truth no matter the consequences,but your public image is getting worse when you are trying to do the very same mistake which you have accused Stefanos Hourmouzis.
By the way,I'm really sad of the fact that S. Hourmouzis is Greek like me,but this is another story...!

@BlueAngel I don't like too the Kav's idea to create microsite where only paid members will have access.

Reyth can say "thank you" in many other ways (ex. sending 100 or 500 or 1.000+ dollars donation via WU or any other payment processor).

Even though Kav mentioned the idea for creating the paid micro site or eventually selling roulette system, I think he wouldn't do that. Its totally against his ethics. But we must wait to see how the things will turn..
Title: Re: Roulette Wheel is Beatable
Post by: Shakuni on June 11, 2015, 08:41:42 AM
@ Blue Angel

Dude no bank pays 2.5% return on daily basis maybe in greece they do and hence the financial crisis there. sori abt tht btw.
So hit and run startegy or having a large army or whteevr you call it, you dont like it cause its unethical {correct me if i am wrong but thts wht i gather from ur post} A straight up bet on roulette pays 35 times. There are 38 numbers on the wheel. The pay out should be 38 times for a staright up so even when you'r winning you still losing 3 chips.
Game is not designed on the principal of Sun Tzu's Art of War. SO you cant play it like that.
Greek mythology is great and all, but history of the world is full of lies and made up crap by the people last survived. So smart people shouldnt get too caught up with that.

Title: Re: Roulette Wheel is Beatable
Post by: kav on June 11, 2015, 09:46:07 AM
Hello guys,

I'm working on the release of Kavouras full system right now and I hope it will be available soon.
Yes, it will probably be in a microsite format with paid entrance (one off fee).

I believe all your questions will be answered in the Kavouras strategy FAQ I prepare.

Some quick points:
The Kavouras bet was published in 2010. After 5 whole years of interest from various parties, it is finally available for purchase to those interested. Nothing more, nothing less.

Blue Angel, it is very unfair to compare with Steven Hourmouzis (http://stevenhourmouzis.com/) , who's total contribution to the roulette community is the "nothing works except my stuff" mantra, and is convicted for direct theft, scam and fraud.

Roulette 30 (http://www.roulette30.com/) is open and free since 2010. Providing maybe the most interesting roulette ideas, systems and discussion in the web. One should at least appreciate this. With my writings I always try to inspire roulette players and help them find their own way to fight and hopefully win the game. The main Kavouras bet selection (http://www.roulette30.com/p/kavouras-bet.html) is free for everyone to read. I never said that "nothing works except my system". I even encourage people to experiment, test and study on their own and even implement the Kavouras bet selection with their own roulette strategy or money management.

I'm sorry if some people do not care for or do not want to acknowledge these huge differences between me and other "sellers".  I'm at peace with myself. And you are not forced to purchase or pay for anything. You can still enjoy the more than 100 pages of quality articles of Roulette 30 or try the Kavouras with your own ideas without giving a penny. I only ask that you show at least some respect for my efforts and not be unappreciative.
Title: Re: Roulette Wheel is Beatable
Post by: Mike on June 11, 2015, 11:03:46 AM
GNO is saying that the edge is being happy with small profits, so aiming for 1% in a session is much preferable to aiming for 50%. Superficially, this might seem like common sense but it really comes down to when you "quit" a session, which cannot possibly give you an advantage unless you have a crystal ball. And if you knew what was coming next, you would just pick another bet, and there would be no need to quit.

So it really comes down to the "Hit and Run" strategy, which is just as absurd as using triggers. If anything, it's even more illogical.

If you have a real edge, you keep playing as long as it persists.
Title: Re: Roulette Wheel is Beatable
Post by: kav on June 11, 2015, 11:16:15 AM
Mike,

Since I believe in the concept of Personal Permanence, I may have a hard time trying to defend the use  of tracking, triggers, stop loss or hit and run. Not only mathematically but also conceptually since these concepts on first sight contradict the Personal Permanence. However if you ask me, I'm not prepared to easily dismiss on sight the use of such tactics as useless.

I still believe that instead of taking a position and just trying to defend it, we should keep an open mind and try to discover new aspects and possibilities. Roulette is endless and there is so much more to learn and discover. Limiting your though to mathematics only can be a trap (http://www.roulette30.com/2014/09/mathematics-and-creative-thinking.html). <-read this link! ("very often mathematics are used as a reason  TO NOT THINK")

There was a very interesting thread in betselection (http://rouletteforum.roulette30.com/betselection.cc/gambling-library/''conquer-the-casinos''-by-philip-koetsch/msg36036) where some interesting and maybe exploitable observations have been presented. If find it very interesting that the writer defined a specific length for each game (100 spins) and then tried to observe what can happen withing this length using various progressions.

[Oh, I forgot to add that the progressions do not change the house edge :-)]
Title: Re: Roulette Wheel is Beatable
Post by: Real on June 11, 2015, 04:54:10 PM

Quote
I still believe that instead of taking a position and just trying to defend it, we should keep an open mind and try to discover new aspects and possibilities. Roulette is endless and there is so much more to learn and discover. Limiting your though to mathematics only can be a trap.<-read this link! ("very often mathematics are used as a reason  TO NOT THINK")-Kav

Kav,

There's keeping an open mind, and then there's what we call making informed decisions based on the hard facts like math and physics.  Mathematics is not a trap. 

Quote
The Kavouras bet was published in 2010. After 5 whole years of interest from various parties, it is finally available for purchase to those interested. Nothing more, nothing less.-Kav

If you can't make money playing with it, then you can't make money selling it.  Selling it isn't going to work out like you believe it will.
Title: Re: Roulette Wheel is Beatable
Post by: kav on June 11, 2015, 05:25:34 PM
Quote
I still believe that instead of taking a position and just trying to defend it, we should keep an open mind and try to discover new aspects and possibilities. Roulette is endless and there is so much more to learn and discover. Limiting your though to mathematics only can be a trap.<-read this link! ("very often mathematics are used as a reason  TO NOT THINK")-Kav
Kav,
There's keeping an open mind, and then there's what we call making informed decisions based on the hard facts like math and physics.  Mathematics is not a trap. 
Real, one can accuse you of many things, but having an open mind is not one of them.
Quote
Quote
The Kavouras bet was published in 2010. After 5 whole years of interest from various parties, it is finally available for purchase to those interested. Nothing more, nothing less.-Kav
If you can't make money playing with it, then you can't make money selling it.  Selling it isn't going to work out like you believe it will.
That's too naive, even from you.
So all your friends in rouletteplace and all advantage players (Laurence Scott and all the others, you included) are selling their systems and roulette computers because they can't win?
Apparently you have no idea about the practical considerations and problems attached to being a full time pro player. I believe all these and other questions will be properly answered in the Kavouras system Faq.

Believe me if I needed to make money selling it, I wouldn't have waited 5 long years to do so. I'm not trying to sell it to nobody. Just make it available to those interested.

I'm not you, do not try to explain me by your own standards. Don't measure my corn by your own bushel.
Title: Re: Roulette Wheel is Beatable
Post by: Real on June 11, 2015, 05:27:28 PM
Quote
Apparently you have no idea about the practical considerations and problems attached to being a full time pro player.

Oh really?  How do you figure?

By the way, I have NOTHING for sale.
Title: Re: Roulette Wheel is Beatable
Post by: kav on June 11, 2015, 05:57:29 PM
And you know something else Real?
From all the members here you are the worst roulette player from them all.

Because you think about roulette mechanically not creatively. Without respect or humility, without love or passion or awe.

You are not a roulette player, you are a cheater. And you only care about your cheat, your get-rich-quick sceme. If it wasn't roulette, it could be anything else. From inside trading information to robbing a bank. It wouldn't matter to you. Roulette means nothing to you and you know nothing about it, just as the wannabe bank robber doesn't give a dam or know anything about finance.

So stop talking and start listening. You may learn one thing or two about what roulette really is. Otherwise just go to a get-rich-quick forum.
Title: Re: Roulette Wheel is Beatable
Post by: Real on June 11, 2015, 06:06:14 PM
Quote
Because you think about roulette mechanically not creatively. Without respect or humility, without love or passion or awe.

I'm not sure as to what you base your comment on.  Perhaps it's because you are uninformed.
Quote
You are not a roulette player, you are a cheater. And you only care about your cheat, your get-rich-quick sceme. If it wasn't roulette, it could be anything else. From inside trading information to robbing a bank. It wouldn't matter to you. Roulette means nothing to you and you know nothing about it, just as the wannabe bank robber doesn't give a dam or know anything about finance. So stop talking and start listening. You may learn one thing or two about what roulette really is. Otherwise just go to a get-rich-quick forum.-Kav


I don't know why you consider playing with an edge to be cheating.  However, I consider not playing with the edge to be "losing". 


It's really come down to this:  Luck runs out. If you can't get the edge, then you can't win in the long term.  So, I'm assuming your goal is to find a way to get the edge, right?

The human brain is not a cheating device, and players are not required to play only if they're blissfully ignorant.
Title: Re: Roulette Wheel is Beatable
Post by: Mike on June 11, 2015, 06:19:30 PM
You are not a roulette player, you are a cheater. And you only care about your cheat, your get-rich-quick sceme. If it wasn't roulette, it could be anything else. From inside trading information to robbing a bank. It wouldn't matter to you.

Kav,

I know you're pissed off with Real for one reason or another, but this is really below the belt. Why don't you just ban him, if you feel that strongly?

Regarding having an open mind, it's not always such an admirably quality as you believe. The other side of the coin is discrimination, which seems to be a dirty word these days, since many people (the young in particular) apparently think that all opinions are equal, and how dare anyone "dictate" what anyone else should think, even if their own thinking is contradictory, illogical, and at variance with the facts. There are literally an endless number of possible systems, and it doesn't require much creativity to come up with new ones.
Title: Re: Roulette Wheel is Beatable
Post by: Mike on June 11, 2015, 06:27:52 PM
Kav,

Is your "full" Kavouras bet a mechanical one? could it be simulated? or does it require some intuition or subjectivity?

What is wrong with a mechanical bet? All AP methods require a fair bit of effort and skill, much more so, in fact, than many systems, which could be played by a robot.
Title: Re: Roulette Wheel is Beatable
Post by: BlueAngel on June 11, 2015, 06:28:42 PM
GNO is saying that the edge is being happy with small profits, so aiming for 1% in a session is much preferable to aiming for 50%. Superficially, this might seem like common sense but it really comes down to when you "quit" a session, which cannot possibly give you an advantage unless you have a crystal ball. And if you knew what was coming next, you would just pick another bet, and there would be no need to quit.

So it really comes down to the "Hit and Run" strategy, which is just as absurd as using triggers. If anything, it's even more illogical.

If you have a real edge, you keep playing as long as it persists.

I totally agree
Title: Re: Roulette Wheel is Beatable
Post by: Real on June 11, 2015, 06:30:05 PM
In order to gain the advantage, the player must learn to think outside of the box.  They must learn to think creatively.  This is something that system players simply are not capable of doing.  The reason:  They're trapped by the gambler's fallacy.

When someone says that their system comes down to "hitting and running" then what they're basically saying is that their system relies on LUCK.
Title: Re: Roulette Wheel is Beatable
Post by: kav on June 11, 2015, 06:35:48 PM
You are not a roulette player, you are a cheater. And you only care about your cheat, your get-rich-quick sceme. If it wasn't roulette, it could be anything else. From inside trading information to robbing a bank. It wouldn't matter to you.
I know you're pissed off with Real for one reason or another, but this is really below the belt. Why don't you just ban him, if you feel that strongly?

Regarding having an open mind, it's not always such an admirably quality as you believe. The other side of the coin is discrimination, which seems to be a dirty word these days, since many people (the young in particular) apparently think that all opinions are equal, and how dare anyone "dictate" what anyone else should think, even if their own thinking is contradictory, illogical, and at variance with the facts. There are literally an endless number of possible systems, and it doesn't require much creativity to come up with new ones.

Hi Mike,

As strange as it seems to you, I'm not a politically correct person and I don't think that all opinions are equal. I have done various things in my life. I have both studied physics at the university and composed music with synthesizers. I'm telling you this, to explain that my belief in the value of creativity and lateral thinking is very strong and deep rooted and it is not a buzzword or a politically correct catchphrase without meaning. I do believe open mindedness is both important and in shortage.

As for Real,
He constantly behaves like the only rational and knowledgeable person among uneducated fools trapped in gambler's fallacy.
I think I make a very fair point in my post. Roulette to me and to many roulette players is not a way to get rich quick. This is a very "American" and very limited way of approaching roulette - "where's the profit" (excuse my political incorrect comment). In my opinion and from my experience, there is so much more to this game than trying to mechanically predict where the ball will land. Btw, does Real come out to you as someone who loves roulette. I always suspect people who do not really love what they spent hours with.
Title: Re: Roulette Wheel is Beatable
Post by: Real on June 11, 2015, 06:43:49 PM
Quote
Btw, does Real come out to you as someone who loves roulette. I always suspect people who do not really love what they spent hours with.-Kav

I've written a 183 page book on the subject of defect spotting wheels, own three wheels, and play full time.

Nope, I clearly hate the game.  LOL :)
Title: Re: Roulette Wheel is Beatable
Post by: BlueAngel on June 11, 2015, 06:47:48 PM
Quote
That's too naive, even from you.
So all your friends in rouletteplace and all advantage players (Laurence Scott and all the others, you included) are selling their systems and roulette computers because they can't win?
Apparently you have no idea about the practical considerations and problems attached to being a full time pro player. I believe all these and other questions will be properly answered in the Kavouras system Faq.

Believe me if I needed to make money selling it, I wouldn't have waited 5 long years to do so. I'm not trying to sell it to nobody. Just make it available to those interested. 

1) Perhaps they don't make enough money and want to add by selling.This makes more sense since all the advantage methods require to keep it in the down low,some short of secrecy for reasons I assume you can understand.Therefore if the hardware they are selling and/or their methods were able to sufficiently support their finance,THEY WOULD NOT AVAIL THEM TO PUBLIC.This is just common sense and there is no exception to this rule.

2) If you are not doing it for the money and you just want to provide your strategy to the public,why are you planning to charge admission to your micro site??
Title: Re: Roulette Wheel is Beatable
Post by: kav on June 11, 2015, 06:48:57 PM
Quote
Btw, does Real come out to you as someone who loves roulette. I always suspect people who do not really love what they spent hours with.-Kav

I've written a 183 page book on the subject of defect spotting wheels, own three wheels, and play full time.
Nope, I clearly hate the game.  LOL :)
Ok, I believe you.
Title: Re: Roulette Wheel is Beatable
Post by: scepticus on June 11, 2015, 07:10:31 PM
Mike
If you have an  "edge" how can it NOT persist ?
Title: Re: Roulette Wheel is Beatable
Post by: kav on June 11, 2015, 07:11:44 PM
Hi BlueAngel,
First read my answer to your previous post here (http://rouletteforum.roulette30.com/index.php/topic,336.msg3615.html#msg3615)
As I said, WHEN the system becomes available, I plan to post a FAQ that hopefully will answer some questions.

Quote
Is your "full" Kavouras bet a mechanical one? could it be simulated? or does it require some intuition or subjectivity?
Mike,
I'm not so much into AP. I have nothing against it. I just want a constructive discussion and often feel that AP talk or AP proponents distract the discussion without leading it anywhere. Without explaining their methods, just saying that everything else is gambler's fallacy foolishness.

Quote
What is wrong with a mechanical bet? All AP methods require a fair bit of effort and skill, much more so, in fact, than many systems, which could be played by a robot.
Good questions.
I don't know if it can be easily simulated because it takes various parameters into account. In any case I do not believe in billions of spins tests. Millions spins tests can produce quite different results than short term, real playing sessions.
In general, subjectivity and intuition are not required. Maybe, in some rare cases, some intuition is required. In those cases, if you have understood the logic of the strategy, your guess is a good as mine.

If anyone has more questions, please wait for the faq :-)
Title: Re: Roulette Wheel is Beatable
Post by: GameNeverOver on June 11, 2015, 08:01:35 PM
..but history of the world is full of lies and made up crap by the people last survived. So smart people shouldnt get too caught up with that.

Wise words Shakuni.
Title: Re: Roulette Wheel is Beatable
Post by: scepticus on June 11, 2015, 08:11:22 PM
As Henry Ford put it " All History is bunk" .
Live in the present - not the past . 
Title: Re: Roulette Wheel is Beatable
Post by: GameNeverOver on June 11, 2015, 08:12:59 PM
GNO is saying that the edge is being happy with small profits, so aiming for 1% in a session is much preferable to aiming for 50%. Superficially, this might seem like common sense but it really comes down to when you "quit" a session, which cannot possibly give you an advantage unless you have a crystal ball. And if you knew what was coming next, you would just pick another bet, and there would be no need to quit.

So it really comes down to the "Hit and Run" strategy, which is just as absurd as using triggers. If anything, it's even more illogical.

If you have a real edge, you keep playing as long as it persists.

Few times I've repeated that I'm not writing about my approach in the posts because its quite irritating for the others here. You, like AP player which MUST possess sharp eyesight, should have noticed that. Or you DO noticed that but still act dumb and try to misguide the others reading this threat? That's not good. Def. not. :)

What "GNO said" is that people shouldn't be greedy, impatient and they should change their mindsets if they want to win. Additionally, what "GNO said" were practical examples how someone (Asian guy) from somewhere (China or Hong Kong) was playing patiently and little by little, made quite good amount of money.

And the last sentence:
"..you keep playing as long as it persists."
you can stay by the wheel play day and night waiting for your trigger and then attack, win and then wait again - week after week and month after month but what about your family? What about your friends? Girlfriend? What about the other important things and people in our lives?

Why are we all striving to earn money after all?
Title: Re: Roulette Wheel is Beatable
Post by: GameNeverOver on June 11, 2015, 08:20:31 PM
As Henry Ford put it " All History is bunk" .
Live in the present - not the past .

Its pleasure for me to know that there are really smart guys on this forum. :)
Title: Re: Roulette Wheel is Beatable
Post by: GameNeverOver on June 11, 2015, 08:34:53 PM
In order to gain the advantage, the player must learn to think outside of the box.  They must learn to think creatively.  This is something that system players simply are not capable of doing.  The reason:  They're trapped by the gambler's fallacy.

When someone says that their system comes down to "hitting and running" then what they're basically saying is that their system relies on LUCK.

-Hey Wright bros. Where are you heading this early on this cold and windy day? And what is that giant winged machine you are caring with you?

-We are heading to the beach sir. We are going to fly on that giant winged machine.

-What?! (laughing) You said "We are going to fly"? You to fly? (laughing)

-Yes sir, we are going to make it ride the wind.

-Oh boy! (holding his belly while laughing) First you are going to make it fly and then it gonna ride the wind, just like we ride our horses?

-Not like we ride our horses. This will be something never and nowhere seen. And one day everyone will fly in winged machines like these.

-Damn fools! You gonna get killed trying to make that giant machine fly. If people were meant to fly they would have wings, like the birds do.

This happened on December, 17th, yr 1903.
What happened after that is well known history. :)

P.S. You are the one living in your tiny AP box. You are the one that must learn to think outside of the box. You are the one that must start thinking creatively. You are the one trapped in the "gamblers fallacy"'s fallacy.
Its time to wake up Real.

But this time for real. :)
Title: Re: Roulette Wheel is Beatable
Post by: BlueAngel on June 11, 2015, 08:40:25 PM
Quote
Additionally, what "GNO said" were practical examples how someone (Asian guy) from somewhere (China or Hong Kong) was playing patiently and little by little, made quite good amount of money.

I have met Palestis at Boston and he is very experienced roulette player,he've spent almost a lifetime at the roulette tables,thus he has seen a lot of things...he told me one of his stories about a taxi driver who was playing at one of the 2 major Athenian casinos.
This guy was waiting for a trigger,his trigger was a dozen to repeat 4 consecutive times,then he start his progression by betting against the 4 repeated dozen on the other 2.
To make a long story short,he found what he was looking for...a rare event of a dozen repeating 12 times in total!
4 virtual plus 8 losing bets on 2 dozens,he lost approximately 5500 Euros!
So if you (GNO) or the Asian or anyone else thinks that this kind of methods are clever,positive and productive,THINK AGAIN!
Title: Re: Roulette Wheel is Beatable
Post by: GameNeverOver on June 11, 2015, 09:02:34 PM
Quote
Additionally, what "GNO said" were practical examples how someone (Asian guy) from somewhere (China or Hong Kong) was playing patiently and little by little, made quite good amount of money.

I have met Palestis at Boston and he is very experienced roulette player,he've spent almost a lifetime at the roulette tables,thus he has seen a lot of things...he told me one of his stories about a taxi driver who was playing at one of the 2 major Athenian casinos.
This guy was waiting for a trigger,his trigger was a dozen to repeat 4 consecutive times,then he start his progression by betting against the 4 repeated dozen on the other 2.
To make a long story short,he found what he was looking for...a rare event of a dozen repeating 12 times in total!
4 virtual plus 8 losing bets on 2 dozens,he lost approximately 5500 Euros!
So if you (GNO) or the Asian or anyone else thinks that this kind of methods are clever,positive and productive,THINK AGAIN!

Thats why the Asian guy had two bankrolls, each 80 units. This was made to cover potential very long repeating hits on one dozen.

Next time you met Palestis ask him did he ask the taxi driver how much he made using his approach before busting his whole bankroll?

Statistically speaking the "AG" (asian guy) approach has inbuilt potential to earn the amount of 3 bankroll before losing 1 (250 units to 80 units bankroll). It is well described in one of the posts.

All the best,
=GNO=
Title: Re: Roulette Wheel is Beatable
Post by: BlueAngel on June 11, 2015, 09:16:38 PM
@ GNO,
I assume he hadn't made his bankroll before losing it,but why don't you ask Palestis,he'll tell you.
Title: Re: Roulette Wheel is Beatable
Post by: GameNeverOver on June 11, 2015, 10:24:11 PM
@ GNO,
I assume he hadn't made his bankroll before losing it,but why don't you ask Palestis,he'll tell you.

We need Palestis to join this discussion and tell us the whole story. I mean what kind of approach the taxi driver used. Did he wait 4 repeats on one dozen then wagering on the other 2 dozens for 4 or 5 or 6 or more spins? What was his bankroll, was it 5.500 euro in total?!

Into how many units was the bankroll divided? What was the amount money of 1 unit?

A lot of things are missing here..

Few things came into my mind after reading this story and few questions raised..
1) seeing one dozen hitting four times in a row is something that statistically is happening once in hundred spins.
If you sit and watch the wheel for 2 and a half hours (around 100 spins) you'll notice that this will occur: once, few times or zero times. If it occurs once, ok. If it occur few times, ok.
But if occurs zero times in those 100 spins, then you can start wagering this to happen (4 consecutive repeats on one dozen) in the next 100 spins. Your chances to hit that "4 repeats on a dozen in row" are twice bigger now.

To use lower bankroll, you can wait for one dozen to hit twice in a row (statistically happens 10 times in 100 spins) and then use the ten steps progression 1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-2-2 (only 12 units required) to wager this "4 repeats in a row" to occur. Why 10 steps progression? To cover the potential 10 occurs of two repeats on the same dozen.

Hint: the trigger here is "two hits in a row on the same dozen" after which we start wagering. If we lose on that wager, we stop playing and wait for the trigger again. On the other side, if another hit follows on that same dozen, we leave the 3 units won on that same dozen. If we win again, we stop. If we lose we wait for the trigger again and go on the next step from the progression.

The potential profit per occur of the "4 repeats in a row" is:
8-7-6-5-4-3-2-1-8-6.

If we don't get the "4 repeats on the same dozen in a row" in these 100 spins, we lose 12 units bankroll, but chances for hitting it in the next 100 spins sample is even bigger (3 times in 100 spins, statistically).

***This is not an approach that I'm using, nor ever used. But if someone is good in programming can give it a try in RouletteX, that software for roulette systems testing.

Let me get to the questions now:
First question that raised is: why this guy had only one bankroll? He probably knew that even 10 repeats on the same dozen DO occur from time to time.

The second question that raised is: if he had enough bankrolls and do check his chances correctly before going headstrong, would he be there, in his taxi, to tell Palestis that something like that occured? I doubt. :)

And know, let me check his chances, and do modify them little in his favor.
He was waiting for 4 repeats in a row. That (statistically) occurs once in 100 spins. What if instead going into "headstrong-all-in-kamikaze" mode, he put some limits on his play?

What if instead go up till win, he used some better and slower progression? What if waited for 4 repeats and then wagering only twice against it? What if he used simple two steps progression (1-3), and his bankroll was only 8 units?

6 repeats in a row statistically occur once per 1.000 spins. 4 repeats occur once per 100 spins. These two (6 repeats vs 4 repeats) compared give 10:1 ratio, this meaning that statistically this will win 10 times (every win gets up +1 unit) before busting the 8 units bankroll. 10 wins equals (+10 units) (-8 units total bankroll bust) = 2 units.

What if his 5.500 euro bankroll was divided into 120 smaller bankroll, each containing 8 units and each unit was around 5 euro? Would he still be taxi driver? Or full time roulette player? :)
Title: Re: Roulette Wheel is Beatable
Post by: palestis on June 11, 2015, 10:29:41 PM
Additionally, what "GNO said" were practical examples how someone (Asian guy) from somewhere (China or Hong Kong) was playing patiently and little by little, made quite good amount of money.

Next time you met Palestis ask him did he ask the taxi driver how much he made using his approach before busting his whole bankroll?

Statistically speaking the "AG" (asian guy) approach has inbuilt potential to earn the amount of 3 bankroll before losing 1 (250 units to 80 units bankroll). It is well described in one of the posts.

All the best,
=GNO=
Hi GNO.
We have similarities in the way of playing certain systems. And extreme patience has a lot to do with it. And I have forced myself to build patience beyond human. And I am so glad about that.
The problem with extensive progression (after a situation begins to become a rare even), is this.
In my early days what I thought was rare, somehow it was breaking the record of rarity. And it cost me some painful losses, using extended progression. I broke many records. Losing 8 progressions on 2 dozen bets, it's an enormous amount if it happens. It would take maybe hundreds of wins to make up that single loss. The problem is when you win you win one unit. When you lose you triple the loss each time. All it takes is one loss and it will wipe out an entire multi  day effort.
Here is what I do now and it works much better.
On the dozens example. if you see a dozen repeated 3 or more times, play the other two, BUT ONLY FOR 2 BETS. More if the minimum is low like an online casino and you can afford it. But never more than 4 times. That way you avoid getting beaten by the black swan. By abandoning your bets early.
Here is the good news.
Next time you see the same scenario ( same dozen 4 times in a row), I guarantee you that it won't keep up this pattern (that is continue to spin the same dozen for more than 6 times in a row),
It is much more rare for the roulette to keep up a certain pattern in many cycles than to reach  a new record on a single cycle.
On EC bets it's the same. As you walk around the casino and see 7- 8 black you can safely bet on red two time or maybe three if it has low minimum. Then stop if you don't hit it. The next roulette you will see with 7-8 EC's in a row, it is highly unlikely that you will miss again 3 bets.
I have found this to be the best way in dealing with rare events.
You can establish the same way of thinking in other types of bets. Like betting
one dozen instead of two, or 4 QUADS, or 2 DS's.
Title: Re: Roulette Wheel is Beatable
Post by: GameNeverOver on June 11, 2015, 10:39:26 PM
Quote
Additionally, what "GNO said" were practical examples how someone (Asian guy) from somewhere (China or Hong Kong) was playing patiently and little by little, made quite good amount of money.

Next time you met Palestis ask him did he ask the taxi driver how much he made using his approach before busting his whole bankroll?

Statistically speaking the "AG" (asian guy) approach has inbuilt potential to earn the amount of 3 bankroll before losing 1 (250 units to 80 units bankroll). It is well described in one of the posts.

All the best,
=GNO=
Hi GNO.
We have similarities in the way of playing certain systems. And extreme patience has a lot to do with it. And I have forced myself to build patience beyond human. And I am so glad about that.
The problem with extensive progression (after a situation begins to become a rare even), is this.
In my early days what I thought was rare, somehow it was breaking the record of rarity. And it cost me some painful losses, using extended progression. I broke many records. Losing 8 progressions on 2 dozen bets, it's an enormous amount if it happens. It would take maybe hundreds of wins to make up that single loss. The problem is when you win you win one unit. When you lose you triple the loss each time. All it takes is one loss and it will wipe out an entire multi  day effort.
Here is what I do now and it works much better.
On the dozens example. if you see a dozen repeated 3 or more times, play the other two, BUT ONLY FOR 2 BETS. More if the minimum is low like an online casino and you can afford it. But never more than 4 times. That way you avoid getting beaten by the black swan. By abandoning your bets early.
Here is the good news.
Next time you see the same scenario ( same dozen 4 times in a row), I guarantee you that it won't keep up this pattern (that is continue to spin the same dozen for more than 6 times in a row),
It is much more rare for the roulette to keep up a certain pattern in many cycles than to reach  a new record on a single cycle.
On EC bets it's the same. As you walk around the casino and see 7- 8 black you can safely bet on red two time or maybe three if it has low minimum. Then stop if you don't hit it. The next roulette you will see with 7-8 EC's in a row, it is highly unlikely that you will miss again 3 bets.
I have found this to be the best way in dealing with rare events.
You can establish the same way of thinking in other types of bets. Like betting
one dozen instead of two, or 4 QUADS, or 2 DS's.

Without patience, we can't call ourselves humans.

The ability to remember, to analyze, to patiently wait for things to happen and turn in our favor - this ability makes us humans and Gods compared to the other animals.
Title: Re: Roulette Wheel is Beatable
Post by: palestis on June 11, 2015, 10:47:36 PM
GNO.
That taxi driver is a loser. He is using the same methods on many types of bets. Not just 2 dozens.
Also in B/R/O/E/L/H,
His problem is that he doesn't stop until he wins or his money runs out. Of course most of the time he wins, but all it takes is one loss to wipe out an entire long effort.
I know another guy that won 55.000 euros in DUBLIN BET (if you play there you know this picture is for real).
His total wagers were 2.25 million euros in 1 month. He is something else. He will not stop unless he wins 300.000 euros. And he's not a rich guy either. Just working class.
Roulette rule number 1. We stop when we lose an amount that can be easily recovered, and we also stop when we win an amount that exceeds a day's pay.
Title: Re: Roulette Wheel is Beatable
Post by: kav on June 11, 2015, 10:52:18 PM
Hi GNO.
We have similarities in the way of playing certain systems. And extreme patience has a lot to do with it. And I have forced myself to build patience beyond human. And I am so glad about that.
The problem with extensive progression (after a situation begins to become a rare even), is this.
In my early days what I thought was rare, somehow it was breaking the record of rarity. And it cost me some painful losses, using extended progression. I broke many records. Losing 8 progressions on 2 dozen bets, it's an enormous amount if it happens. It would take maybe hundreds of wins to make up that single loss. The problem is when you win you win one unit. When you lose you triple the loss each time. All it takes is one loss and it will wipe out an entire multi  day effort.
Here is what I do now and it works much better.
On the dozens example. if you see a dozen repeated 3 or more times, play the other two, BUT ONLY FOR 2 BETS. More if the minimum is low like an online casino and you can afford it. But never more than 4 times. That way you avoid getting beaten by the black swan. By abandoning your bets early.
Here is the good news.
Next time you see the same scenario ( same dozen 4 times in a row), I guarantee you that it won't keep up this pattern (that is continue to spin the same dozen for more than 6 times in a row),
It is much more rare for the roulette to keep up a certain pattern in many cycles than to reach  a new record on a single cycle.
On EC bets it's the same. As you walk around the casino and see 7- 8 black you can safely bet on red two time or maybe three if it has low minimum. Then stop if you don't hit it. The next roulette you will see with 7-8 EC's in a row, it is highly unlikely that you will miss again 3 bets.
I have found this to be the best way in dealing with rare events.
You can establish the same way of thinking in other types of bets. Like betting
one dozen instead of two, or 4 QUADS, or 2 DS's.
Great advice!
Title: Re: Roulette Wheel is Beatable
Post by: GameNeverOver on June 11, 2015, 10:55:58 PM
GNO.
That taxi driver is a loser.

But does he know that he is a loser? :)

About the rule:
I know that you are one of the most experienced roulette players on this (and every other) forum.
Have you ever thought about creating a threat in which you'll write all the rules that you follow?

This way you'll give a direction to all the new players which are still learning this game.

What is, after all, the point of acquiring all that knowledge through life experiences if not sharing it with others?
Title: Re: Roulette Wheel is Beatable
Post by: BlueAngel on June 11, 2015, 11:21:40 PM
Quote
Next time you see the same scenario ( same dozen 4 times in a row), I guarantee you that it won't keep up this pattern (that is continue to spin the same dozen for more than 6 times in a row),
It is much more rare for the roulette to keep up a certain pattern in many cycles than to reach  a new record on a single cycle.
On EC bets it's the same. As you walk around the casino and see 7- 8 black you can safely bet on red two time or maybe three if it has low minimum. Then stop if you don't hit it. The next roulette you will see with 7-8 EC's in a row, it is highly unlikely that you will miss again 3 bets.
I have found this to be the best way in dealing with rare events.
You can establish the same way of thinking in other types of bets. Like betting one dozen instead of two, or 4 QUADS, or 2 DS's.

Oh I hear Real is coming...!
Already listening something about GF...
By the way,what is GF experience? GirlFriend experience??
Title: Re: Roulette Wheel is Beatable
Post by: palestis on June 12, 2015, 12:03:24 AM
GNO.
That taxi driver is a loser.

But does he know that he is a loser? :)

About the rule:
I know that you are one of the most experienced roulette players on this (and every other) forum.
Have you ever thought about creating a threat in which you'll write all the rules that you follow?

This way you'll give a direction to all the new players which are still learning this game.

What is, after all, the point of acquiring all that knowledge through life experiences if not sharing it with others?
Of course he knows he is a loser. What he may not know is that he is an addictive gambler. There is a difference between playing to win and playing because of addiction. Sure I'd like to share  some of my experiences, but I'm sure I will encounter some REAL objections.
Since you are interested in what is missing and how to take advantage of it, I have done research with a single missing dozen, and the highest I have seen is 28 spins missing. And one time only it was 30.  But that's the highest maximum you can encounter. And it is unlikely to see it in a single 8 hour day in the casino among about 15 roulettes.  If I happen to see it missing 23-25 spins, then for sure I'll bet the highest amounts I can afford.
But since waiting for this extreme condition is time consuming and it may not happen today, as you make the rounds on the casino floor and notice a dozen or column missing for over 8 spins, then by all means bet 4-5 times on it. If you happen to lose, the next time you see the same trigger it is unlikely that you will miss again for 4-5 spins. Not to mention almost impossible to miss a third cycle. As an extra precaution for those gifted with patience, you can bet one or two of the 5 bets virtually, so you only use progression for 3 bets. Considering it is a single dozen, the risk is very low.
Considering that it is relatively easy to find a dozen missing for 8+ spins, then you will not have a problem waiting around all day to bet.

And here is the strange phenomenon. Though 1 dozen to go missing even for 20 spins, it is very rare, 12 scattered numbers can go missing easily for 40+ spins.  And the explanation is that a dozen is not just 12 numbers. it is also a compact continuous space on the layout. In effect you need 2 conditions to exist. 12 numbers missing but also an entire real estate space on the layout to be missing. and that is rare. The same goes if the 12 numbers are contiguous on the wheel itself. Like a TIER for example.
12 scattered numbers on the wheel can go to sleep all day long for 30 spins or more, yet you won't see a TIER missing for that long any time soon.
Again the wise thing to do is if you see the TIER missing for at least 8 spins, you can bet on it for 4 bets. If you failed it is not the end of the world, as you can easily recover the next time you encounter the same situation and start the betting with a little higher amount. And you will end up with a profit too. Playing that way you never give the casino the chance to get back everything you won up to that point. That's y casinos love non-stop progressions.
Title: Re: Roulette Wheel is Beatable
Post by: GameNeverOver on June 12, 2015, 01:16:21 AM
@ GNO,
I assume he hadn't made his bankroll before losing it,but why don't you ask Palestis,he'll tell you.

Few things came into my mind after reading this story and few questions raised..
1) seeing one dozen hitting four times in a row is something that statistically is happening once in hundred spins.
If you sit and watch the wheel for 2 and a half hours (around 100 spins) you'll notice that this will occur: once, few times or zero times. If it occurs once, ok. If it occur few times, ok.
But if occurs zero times in those 100 spins, then you can start wagering this to happen (4 consecutive repeats on one dozen) in the next 100 spins. Your chances to hit that "4 repeats on a dozen in row" are twice bigger now.

To use lower bankroll, you can wait for one dozen to hit twice in a row (statistically happens 10 times in 100 spins) and then use the ten steps progression 1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-2-2 (only 12 units required) to wager this "4 repeats in a row" to occur. Why 10 steps progression? To cover the potential 10 occurs of two repeats on the same dozen.

Hint: the trigger here is "two hits in a row on the same dozen" after which we start wagering. If we lose on that wager, we stop playing and wait for the trigger again. On the other side, if another hit follows on that same dozen, we leave the 3 units won on that same dozen. If we win again, we stop. If we lose we wait for the trigger again and go on the next step from the progression.

The potential profit per occur of the "4 repeats in a row" is:
8-7-6-5-4-3-2-1-8-6.

If we don't get the "4 repeats on the same dozen in a row" in these 100 spins, we lose 12 units bankroll, but chances for hitting it in the next 100 spins sample is even bigger (3 times in 100 spins, statistically).

***This is not an approach that I'm using, nor ever used. But if someone is good in programming can give it a try in RouletteX, that software for roulette systems testing.


What if there is a progression with which we can go 30 steps deep (that means to play it for 300 spins) and all we need is one and only one "4 repeats on dozen in a row" situation to make profit? And the total bankroll is not that big: we need only 174 units and the profit is between 1 and 8 units, depends when we are going to hit it.

Good trigger might be waiting 50 spins without 4 repeats in a row

Give it a thought or two.

Best of luck,
=GNO=
Title: Re: Roulette Wheel is Beatable
Post by: Real on June 12, 2015, 03:21:01 AM
Quote
On EC bets it's the same. As you walk around the casino and see 7- 8 black you can safely bet on red two time or maybe three if it has low minimum. Then stop if you don't hit it. The next roulette you will see with 7-8 EC's in a row, it is highly unlikely that you will miss again 3 bets.I have found this to be the best way in dealing with rare events. You can establish the same way of thinking in other types of bets. Like betting one dozen instead of two, or 4 QUADS, or 2 DS's.


Again, gambler's fallacy bunk.  Why on earth do you promote such absurdity?
Title: Re: Roulette Wheel is Beatable
Post by: BlueAngel on June 12, 2015, 03:32:52 AM
@ Real,
You have disgraced Steve Martin's image in our eyes!:-)
Title: Re: Roulette Wheel is Beatable
Post by: palestis on June 12, 2015, 01:16:55 PM
Quote
On EC bets it's the same. As you walk around the casino and see 7- 8 black you can safely bet on red two time or maybe three if it has low minimum. Then stop if you don't hit it. The next roulette you will see with 7-8 EC's in a row, it is highly unlikely that you will miss again 3 bets.I have found this to be the best way in dealing with rare events. You can establish the same way of thinking in other types of bets. Like betting one dozen instead of two, or 4 QUADS, or 2 DS's.


Again, gambler's fallacy bunk.  Why on earth do you promote such absurdity?

Y don't you show us what you promote instead? I can claim "psychic powers" to beat roulette and dismiss every other method as worthless. Beating the device is just a fancy word, unless it is followed by specifics. It has the same value as my psychic powers to predict numbers. So stop playing  your tape recorder and show us the facts for a change.
Maybe you will gain some support for your cause.
Title: Re: Roulette Wheel is Beatable
Post by: palestis on June 12, 2015, 01:34:02 PM
Quote
. What if there is a progression with which we can go 30 steps deep (that means to play it for 300 spins) and all we need is one and only one "4 repeats on dozen in a row" situation to make profit? And the total bankroll is not that big: we need only 174 units and the profit is between 1 and 8 units, depends when we are going to hit it.

Good trigger might be waiting 50 spins without 4 repeats in a row

Give it a thought or two.

Best of luck,
=GNO=

GNO
I'm not sure which system you are talking about. Is it to bet the other 2 dozens after 1 dozen has repeated 4 times, or to bet one dozen to repeat 4 times? Or something else? Can you clarify this for me and then we will take it from there.
Title: Re: Roulette Wheel is Beatable
Post by: dobbelsteen on June 12, 2015, 03:51:12 PM
I have demonstrated several times my manner of playing roulette. No AP or VB  or DS player has taken the time to watch a live demonstration. RNG and real wheels are not important, The results and the stats of the random sequences give me the signals to bet. Most visitors of users of the forum are looking for the HG or a simply manner to increase their income.
AP players use a lot of words and they are not able to give a live demonstration. RNG is the future.
Title: Re: Roulette Wheel is Beatable
Post by: Real on June 12, 2015, 04:33:30 PM

Quote
The results and the stats of the random sequences give me the signals to bet.
Sorry Dobbelsteen,

But that's more gambler's fallacy nonsense.  Signals, triggers, are a waste of time.  There's no logical reason, whatsoever, as to why they should work, since past spins have no effect on future spins.

Compare betting with "signals" and without them.  Try even betting opposite of the "signals".  Make sure that the exact same number of bets are actually placed.  After enough trials, you will find that there is no value to the triggers.

Quote
AP players use a lot of words and they are not able to give a live demonstration.

Dobbelsteen,

APs generally are very protective of what they do.  However, you'll find countless video demonstrating the skills on youtube, and on rouletteplace.  Most of the videos are in HD.  The physics, the math, it's all there. 

Just the facts,

-Real
Title: Re: Roulette Wheel is Beatable
Post by: GameNeverOver on June 12, 2015, 05:15:41 PM
Quote
. What if there is a progression with which we can go 30 steps deep (that means to play it for 300 spins) and all we need is one and only one "4 repeats on dozen in a row" situation to make profit? And the total bankroll is not that big: we need only 174 units and the profit is between 1 and 8 units, depends when we are going to hit it.

Good trigger might be waiting 50 spins without 4 repeats in a row

Give it a thought or two.

Best of luck,
=GNO=

GNO
I'm not sure which system you are talking about. Is it to bet the other 2 dozens after 1 dozen has repeated 4 times, or to bet one dozen to repeat 4 times? Or something else? Can you clarify this for me and then we will take it from there.

First you need to go back and re-read the whole post including the quote in which I explained this approach and the statistical hypothesis on which its built.
Then download the excel document and things will be much clearer for you after you take a look on the progression.

Give it a thought and tell me your opinion.
Title: Re: Roulette Wheel is Beatable
Post by: Real on June 12, 2015, 06:36:43 PM
Quote
First you need to go back and re-read the whole post including the quote in which I explained this approach and the statistical hypothesis on which its built. -GameNeverOver

GameNeverOver,

Can you by chance restate the hypothesis, and some kind of supporting math or theory for it?

I know math is a weak area for some, so if it's a weak spot, just do your best to explain the theory for why you think it will work.

Title: Re: Roulette Wheel is Beatable
Post by: palestis on June 12, 2015, 08:23:27 PM
Quote
. What if there is a progression with which we can go 30 steps deep (that means to play it for 300 spins) and all we need is one and only one "4 repeats on dozen in a row" situation to make profit? And the total bankroll is not that big: we need only 174 units and the profit is between 1 and 8 units, depends when we are going to hit it.

Good trigger might be waiting 50 spins without 4 repeats in a row

Give it a thought or two.

Best of luck,
=GNO=

GNO
I'm not sure which system you are talking about. Is it to bet the other 2 dozens after 1 dozen has repeated 4 times, or to bet one dozen to repeat 4 times? Or something else? Can you clarify this for me and then we will take it from there.

First you need to go back and re-read the whole post including the quote in which I explained this approach and the statistical hypothesis on which its built.
Then download the excel document and things will be much clearer for you after you take a look on the progression.

Give it a thought and tell me your opinion.
Hi GNO.
After reading your post I understand that this particular system involves betting that a single dozen  will continue to 4 repeats after it already span twice in a row. And you gave some statistics on the probability of that happening.
Though it's a system that I never played, I would not play it that way.
My objective in all my systems is to  hit once and then stop. Then I will look for another trigger  whatever that is. I never aim a double hit on the same trigger. When I was playing in Europe I had at least 20 roulettes active on the floor, so finding a trigger did not take long at all. If there was no trigger for one system, there was always another trigger for another system.
For the system in question, I cannot find any logical base between betting on the dozen that it will repeat 2 more times after it has come 2 times already, and just plainly betting that the last dozen shown on the board, will repeat twice.
Is it the fact that after waiting 50 spins without happening it becomes due to happen soon? I don't know.
I never researched this situation, and it will be time consuming to research it now.
Most systems I use are the result of many years of observation. And I don't use roulette extreme and other testing software.  All my testing has been done with real roulette numbers from live tables
I like to keep things very simple. I write the numbers on the cards and then study them for several systems. On the layout and the numbers on the wheel too. Like this one from 2006. And I have thousands of them.
The best way to play a single dozen is to observe which dozen is dominant, say in the last 20 spins, (a trend), and then bet that it will spin one more time. That's not too much to ask. If I'm unlucky it will stop and go to sleep as soon as  I start betting on it. But I will not pursue it for more than 4 times. And if I hit it once I will stop the betting as well. Mission accomplished. Then go on to another roulette and do the same.
The logic behind this is that a trend can't simply stop coinciding with the moment you are entering the betting.
Sure it can stop sometimes, but I guarantee you it can't be happening just for you any time you start betting. You might miss it once or twice but soon you will hit it. With 100% certainty.
And never use extensive progression on a single trigger. Rather use small progressions on new triggers. Don't forget it is rare for roulette to keep up the same pattern in every trigger.

These are the things that I have studied extensively for many many years.
Now I'm working on dozen pattern repeat (betting 1 dozen), and looks very promising.
The opposite of dozen pattern breaker which involves betting 2 dozens.
BLUE Angel gave me the idea when he was here. About breaking patterns. But since I don't like to bet more than 12 numbers in any form, I changed it to "Pattern repeat" which involves only 1 dozen.
Title: Re: Roulette Wheel is Beatable
Post by: GameNeverOver on June 12, 2015, 10:19:19 PM
@Palestis

I'm not using this approach neither. It just crossed my mind yesterday so I shared it with the members of this forum.

All I want from every visitor who is reading my posts is to start THINKING. Once he start thinking for himself, everything will become better - for him and for everyone else around him.
Title: Re: Roulette Wheel is Beatable
Post by: GameNeverOver on June 12, 2015, 10:42:42 PM
Quote
First you need to go back and re-read the whole post including the quote in which I explained this approach and the statistical hypothesis on which its built. -GameNeverOver

GameNeverOver,

Can you by chance restate the hypothesis, and some kind of supporting math or theory for it?

I know math is a weak area for some, so if it's a weak spot, just do your best to explain the theory for why you think it will work.


@Real
I don't want to ignore your posts but the communication between us is totally pointless and nothing else then waste of time.

One thing is sure: You won't convince me in your beliefs - I won't convince you in mine.

So why should we waste our precious time explaining one to another something we know that the other side is not believing and will never accept as true?
Title: Re: Roulette Wheel is Beatable
Post by: GameNeverOver on June 13, 2015, 03:41:10 AM
I was curious to see how will this "4 repeats in a row on the same dozen" approach work.

So, I found and downloaded notepad doc. with 4.000 consecutive spins from Dublin Bet live wheel roulette.

Used 1.000 spins for the testing.

Results after playing 1.000 consecutive spins are like follow:

Bankroll: 174 units

Profit: +146 units (-12 units because one wagering series remain opened) ~ +134 units

30 steps progression used.

Highest step from the progression reached in these 1.000 spins: 23th step.
Once it get to the 21st and 22nd step.
Most of the time profit was made between 6th and 16th step from the progression.

Take a look on whole testing in the attached excel document bellow.

Waiting for your opinions.
=GNO=
Title: Re: Roulette Wheel is Beatable
Post by: palestis on June 13, 2015, 08:31:39 AM
I was curious to see how will this "4 repeats in a row on the same dozen" approach work.

Highest step from the progression reached in these 1.000 spins: 23th step.
Once it get to the 21st and 22nd step.
Most of the time profit was made between 6th and 16th step from the progression.

Take a look on whole testing in the attached excel document bellow.

Waiting for your opinions.
=GNO=
When you start researching systems, you will always find that there is always a most frequent range (the one you call "most of the profit was made") where the winning happens. This is called the "winning range", and it is unique for every system. And it is wise to play only that range. All bets before that range should be VIRTUAL, and every bet after that range should be abandoned. That way  you only bet the range where it's most likely to win. And you avoid wasting units before the  action starts and also avoid possible catastrophic results if you continue betting with progression after that range.  Then wait for the next trigger and do the same. That's y patience is so important.
Betting only the winning range of a system ensures that you are always within the statistical range where you are most likely to win.
When you develop systems you always have to determine the range of bets where most of the profit occurs. Then you play that range only.
Not only you overcome the house edge, you have an edge on your side bigger than the house edge.
The problem is,  to find that range takes some research. One set of numbers from a list is not enough.
It takes a lot more lists of numbers to accurately  compute that range.
Title: Re: Roulette Wheel is Beatable
Post by: GameNeverOver on June 13, 2015, 04:33:35 PM
After few years spent on - like a member and around - like guest, on few roulette forums, I've came to this sad conclusion:

PEOPLE LOSE BECAUSE THEY DON'T WANNA WIN!

Yes, you read that one right. This and only this is the biggest truth about this world and all of us which are part of this dumb humanity.

Few years ago I thought that majority of people are plain losers due to our inbuilt greed, but now I see how wrong was I for the whole time. If people were just greedy, they'll do anything to get to a place where they will have constant money flow (or gold or whatever you like the most) and stay there as long as possible. This way, with remaining on this "money-flow" position for a long time, they'll attain big wealth and become winners.

There are lots of real life examples for which I can write here, which are not connected with roulette playing. But because this is a roulette forum, I'll stick with the roulette thing.

People don't win because they wanna lose. Just like everywhere and in every other business - same is here in roulette playing.

Example:
We, the more experienced players, constantly repeat that PATIENCE is the only way to win in roulette and in few occasions wrote and explained few systems which are actually yielding profits (the system I've tested yesterday is good one - give it a try, twist it, modify it, make it better and share it back to us here!). But people remain silent. They act like deaf and blind, wasting their lives staring without understanding in the bright PC monitor.

Even though we give directions in which every roulette player must work, most of the members keep asking silly questions like "Did it pass the 1 billion spins test?!", or attacking the writing of the system with parroting the same again and again ("GF" supporters).

What I notice is that most of the roulette players are not here to learn how to win because
THEY DON'T WANNA WIN.

When someone posts a system that easily yields lets say 3% winnings from bankroll per session, the others reply with: its too little, give us something that will earn more!
And if you give them something that earns more, but involves more waiting they'd reply with: its too slow, give us something that will earn faster.
If you give them something that will earn faster they will reply with: its still slow, give us something that will earn on every spin. And then they will shut down their computers, take their hard earned money and go to the nearest casino to lose them.

Most of the people are here because they think that one day they'll come across some post like this:
"When #13 hit, wager 100 dollars/euro on #36. After that, whole winnings from this wager place on #4. Congratulations: you've just won 129.600 dollars/euro!" This mindset is self destructing. Mindset like this leads you to a deep and dark hole.

Turning 100 dollars/euro into millions in few spins or sessions is fairy tale in which most of the roulette players believe. That's why there are so few winners. That's why 99% of the players are losers and the reason behind this kind of behaviour is the fact that they don't wanna win, they wanna lose.

Open your eyes and learn,
=GNO=
Title: Re: Roulette Wheel is Beatable
Post by: scepticus on June 13, 2015, 05:47:35 PM
Philosophy, GNO, generates more differences of opinion than roulette  !
Title: Re: Roulette Wheel is Beatable
Post by: GameNeverOver on June 13, 2015, 06:09:38 PM
You are right about philosophy. But my last post is something real.

If you do a little deeper research about the whole "success" and "winning" thing you'll find that the main difference between winners and losers is how they approach the situation at hand: winners approach any situation with winning in their minds and losers use the opposite approach. And in the end both sides get what they wanted in the first place.
Title: Re: Roulette Wheel is Beatable
Post by: GameNeverOver on June 13, 2015, 06:13:36 PM
Quote
PEOPLE LOSE BECAUSE THEY DON'T WANNA WIN!-GNO

GNO,

I'm sorry, but that's just utter nonsense.  Everyone on this forum would like to win.  Gambling discipline/patience isn't the reason why these people lose.  They lose their bankrolls, over time, because of the house edge.

The random wheel doesn't differentiate between a new player or an old player.

This is too deep for you to understand. :)

Observing and perceiving the wheel and the results it produces without taking into consideration the bigger picture they form and deform in the process is shallow understanding of the roulette's wheel working.

Do what works for you. :)

Have a nice weekend.
=GNO=
Title: Re: Roulette Wheel is Beatable
Post by: BlueAngel on June 13, 2015, 06:23:32 PM
I was curious to see how will this "4 repeats in a row on the same dozen" approach work.

Highest step from the progression reached in these 1.000 spins: 23th step.
Once it get to the 21st and 22nd step.
Most of the time profit was made between 6th and 16th step from the progression.

Take a look on whole testing in the attached excel document bellow.

Waiting for your opinions.
=GNO=
When you start researching systems, you will always find that there is always a most frequent range (the one you call "most of the profit was made") where the winning happens. This is called the "winning range", and it is unique for every system. And it is wise to play only that range. All bets before that range should be VIRTUAL, and every bet after that range should be abandoned. That way  you only bet the range where it's most likely to win. And you avoid wasting units before the  action starts and also avoid possible catastrophic results if you continue betting with progression after that range.  Then wait for the next trigger and do the same. That's y patience is so important.
Betting only the winning range of a system ensures that you are always within the statistical range where you are most likely to win.
When you develop systems you always have to determine the range of bets where most of the profit occurs. Then you play that range only.
Not only you overcome the house edge, you have an edge on your side bigger than the house edge.
The problem is,  to find that range takes some research. One set of numbers from a list is not enough.
It takes a lot more lists of numbers to accurately  compute that range.

I agree with the winning range or margin approach, Jim I know who gave you the idea and this one was one of the many good ones!Thanks to Harry!
Title: Re: Roulette Wheel is Beatable
Post by: scepticus on June 13, 2015, 08:49:27 PM
Blue Angel
Would that be Harry J. by any chance ? Harry Joel ?
Title: Re: Roulette Wheel is Beatable
Post by: palestis on June 13, 2015, 10:05:17 PM
Blue Angel
Would that be Harry J. by any chance ? Harry Joel ?
Scepticus
This is Harry (your buddy), from the other forum. From SA. We are in constant communication thru emails for a long time, that's y we don't post in that forum anymore. He just moved out of the old house into a new one and he was without internet for at least a month. He just emailed me and he's back in business. We are having very creative sessions in private. As you probably know he's an extremely smart man, with enormous experience in roulette. I hope he'll make it to the UK some day.
Title: Re: Roulette Wheel is Beatable
Post by: scepticus on June 14, 2015, 12:00:10 AM
Thanks for that Palestis. Glad to hear harry is back in business. We might meet when he comes to the UK.
You know, of course , that he is also a " buddy " of Real /Houston/ Snowman /whatever  !
As VBM would say hehehehehe  !
Sorry about going off topic, kav.
Title: Re: Roulette Wheel is Beatable
Post by: dobbelsteen on June 14, 2015, 12:20:29 PM
Systems are very useful to research the features of the random sequences. Systems are the entrence to develop successful strategies. The winning ranges are the heart of the strategies. Finding the most suitable strategy is a larger problem and requires  a lot of research. Lucky the computers can do the most and fast work.
Title: Re: Roulette Wheel is Beatable
Post by: Harryj on June 15, 2015, 06:09:13 PM
  I'm back, after almost 6 weeks without an internet connection.

     First let me express my basic philosophy. I am what is generally called a system player. For me systems are methods which rely basically on their progression. Strategies on the other hand rely more on bet selection.Systems fail when the wheel produces a result that stretches their progression. The player is unable to continue because he lacks the bankroll or he hits the table limit. Strategies fail because the bet selection is ill advised. Strategies tend to keep the progression short so neither the table limit or  the bankroll is not challenged. Needless to say I regard myself as a strategy player.

    How then do I decide what to bet ??  There are dozens of possibilities. The secret is to research the "winning range". If a fairly large number of results are tabulated, the result will tend to look like a bell graph. If the graph is wide and shallow it is unlikely to provide a good strategy. What we need to see is a graph that is narrow and steep. Where a large percentage of result crowd into a narrow range. This type of graph will always produce a winning strategy.

        Ther are 2 ways to bet these "bells". [1] Start to bet soon after the graph starts to rise steeply.  ie. Bet into the middle of the bell. [2] Start to bet just before the middle and bet till it flattens out.
       Obviously [2] is safer, but there are generally few betting oportunities. [1] Gives more betting oportunities, but there are also many more losses. You could of course bet acrss the whole "bell", but this would require a longer progression. Greatly increasing the chance of a major loss.

        My personal play consists of only very few bets on each target, depending on the odds. My progression is based on each trigger and increased only on a new target. As Palestis has pointed out it is rare forseveral targets to lose in a row. The important thing is to only bet when the odds seem to favour you, and don't keep pressing the bet if it is losing. Each new target raises your chance of a win.

      Despite the negative comments this thread has raised some interesting ideas that could be winners with the right "range"

              Regards,
                           Harry

     Scep, in the move I have lost your Email address. Mine has also changed to joseyhp@webmail.co.za. Drop me a line.
Title: Re: Roulette Wheel is Beatable
Post by: kav on June 15, 2015, 06:47:19 PM
Hi harryj,

I assume that in the bell curve the X axis is the numbers and the Y axis the appearances, right?

If a fairly large number of results is needed, how is this strategy practical? Are the data collection and the betting done in the same casino visit?
Title: Re: Roulette Wheel is Beatable
Post by: BlueAngel on June 15, 2015, 10:28:17 PM
Hi harryj,

I assume that in the bell curve the X axis is the numbers and the Y axis the appearances, right?

If a fairly large number of results is needed, how is this strategy practical? Are the data collection and the betting done in the same casino visit?

I think you need to gather a quite large sample only once in order to determine the averages/median or winning range if you prefer.Then you bet according that,you don't need to update the very large sample because it's sufficient to cover the majority of situations.
Harry welcome to the forum! I've heard many interesting things about you from Jim.
I think we could all benefit from your experience,keep it up!
Title: Re: Roulette Wheel is Beatable
Post by: palestis on June 16, 2015, 02:06:31 AM
Hi harryj,

I assume that in the bell curve the X axis is the numbers and the Y axis the appearances, right?

If a fairly large number of results is needed, how is this strategy practical? Are the data collection and the betting done in the same casino visit?
No you don't need a large number of results to implement a strategy/system on the spot.
What we mean by large number of results, is the research that a serious player has done over the years. It's not something that you process for the first time when you are getting ready to play. They are the fruits of  the empirical experience that you gained after a long and thorough  research.
Once you determine the facts, they stay with you for ever. You only need to do the research once per system. After that you are  always aware of your winning chances, after a condition has developed. (trigger).
Maybe an example will shed some light.
After a single EC has spun, there is no much you can do in the next spin, as the range of the upcoming  results can be very wide. It can be one more of the same EC, two more, three more....8 more. YOU DON'T HAVE ANY INFORMATION as to what will follow after a black for example. Therefore, betting black to repeat or red for the opposite, doesn't make sense at this point.  You only know that you have a 18/37 chance to win. But 48.6% in not good enough for us, we want 95% certainty.  As the same EC keeps on spinning several times in a row, you will notice that it's becoming a lot harder after 5 black for example to see another 3 or 4. Or 7, 8  in total.
Yet 3 and 4 and 5  in a row you keep seeing all day long.
So noticing this fact, we can make an assumption and do an extensive research on that assumption
Wait for 5 black and see what happens after that.  MOST OF THE TIME. 
If we studied hundred of thousands of cases where we saw 5 of the same EC in a row, and determined that THE MAJORITY OF THE TIME, it turned to the opposite in the next 4 spins, then we have a very important observation.
That is after 5 black MOST OF THE TIME it turns to red in the next 4 spins.
So after the trigger (5 black in a row), if we bet red for 4 spins we know we will be on target most of the time. (Like 95% of the time.
THOSE 4 SPINS ARE THE WINNING RANGE. And that's the only spins we will bet on.
If the black decided to go on to 10...15...20 black in a row, it is of no concern to us because we will not continue after  the 4th bet.
Therefore there will never be a situation where you can lose it al,l if things went wrong (rare).
The same logic applies to any type of bet. 2 DS's,  3 quads 1 dozen , 1 column and anything in between.
The basic steps are always the same.
1. Notice how numbers behave in groups
2. Take that observation that you frequently see as your base and research it to see what happens MOST OF THE TIME. And what that range of the most frequent happening is.
3. BET THAT RANGE when  you encounter the situation (trigger).
That's the way to come  as closest to the holly grail as you can get.
EMPIRICAL EXPERIENCE is the ultimate judge.
Title: Re: Roulette Wheel is Beatable
Post by: kav on June 16, 2015, 12:13:21 PM
Palestis,

Thank you very much for this post.
I have a thing for clear explanations and your explanation is great.

This is also why you will see me in various threads asking for a clear description of the ideas. Maybe other people have the ability to (think they) understand systems, even when they are not clearly explained. I do not. And I put great effort to be very clear when I explain a system (http://www.roulette30.com/2014/04/top-9-roulette-systems.html).
Title: Re: Roulette Wheel is Beatable
Post by: dobbelsteen on June 16, 2015, 01:35:27 PM
Palestis you use a partigular range of the random row as a trigger. Suppose the trigger is 4 red. Blaise Pascal learns us that the probability is once in 16 spins. For such a trigger the total waiting time can be very long.
You do not tell us  your plan after the trigger has occured. Do you wager only one  or more spins on black .
Do you flat bettting or progressive?

I use triggers of random ranges and the waiting time is zero. That is the advantage of my system. Martingale as a betting principle is recommended.
Title: Re: Roulette Wheel is Beatable
Post by: kav on June 16, 2015, 02:58:07 PM
In a casino with 8 tables, finding the same Even Chance repeat 4 times is very easy.
In this example he said he bets the next 4 spins.
Title: Re: Roulette Wheel is Beatable
Post by: palestis on June 16, 2015, 03:12:13 PM
Palestis you use a partigular range of the random row as a trigger. Suppose the trigger is 4 red. Blaise Pascal learns us that the probability is once in 16 spins. For such a trigger the total waiting time can be very long.
You do not tell us  your plan after the trigger has occured. Do you wager only one  or more spins on black .
Do you flat bettting or progressive?

I use triggers of random ranges and the waiting time is zero. That is the advantage of my system. Martingale as a betting principle is recommended.
No actually the waiting time is not long at all. In a European casino where I was, there were at least 15-20 roulettes open and running. So finding 4 or 5 blacks in a row it was a matter of a minute or two as you walk around and observe. If it's not 5 black it could be 5 odd, or 5 low numbers.
An even greater advantage is that as you look around for that particular trigger, most likely you will run into a situation where you will see 7 or more black in a row, on the board already in one or the many roulettes that you observe. Or maybe 9 odd. It may seem somewhat time consuming to happen, but when you observe many roulettes, chances are that there is always a trigger available. Many times stronger triggers than you can ask for. 
Making the winning range even more narrow. You don't place only one bet. You bet as many as the winning range dictates.
Of course you have to use a progression. Without it, your chance for a profit is only one spin.
The type of progression depends on how many numbers you will bet on.  If it's EC's then Martingale is the way to go. If your random rows involve dozens, then you use another progression. if it is one DS then another.
Observing one roulette only is a time problem. With many roulettes available it's not.
The important thing is to know is what to do once you see the trigger.
And that only comes from experience.
Title: Re: Roulette Wheel is Beatable
Post by: GameNeverOver on June 24, 2015, 06:51:27 PM
Martingale as a betting principle is recommended.

Using Martingale in roulette is like drunk-dancing in the middle of a minefield:
its thrilling for sure but extremely dangerous.

Sorry Mr. Elder but martingale as a betting principle is never recommended. Its the worst from the worst of all the progressions invented till now.

Good luck in surviving your drunk-dance without ending it in awesome fireworks!
=GNO=
Title: Re: Roulette Wheel is Beatable
Post by: GameNeverOver on June 25, 2015, 12:13:55 PM
And that only comes from experience.

@Palestis
Its impossible to explain something to someone who don't want to understand you.

I realized this yesterday, while trying to explain to one relative of mine that his financial decision is bad and will lead to disastrous end result in few years from now. You know what he did on that? He just laughed and replied with: "-I know what I'm doing, don't worry." "If you knew what you were doing I wouldn't worry in first place." - I thought to reply to that but instead I just left the place.

And because "he knows what he is doing" he and his whole family spent their whole lives paying his debts and living in misery.
Title: Re: Roulette Wheel is Beatable
Post by: GameNeverOver on June 26, 2015, 03:51:22 PM
Live or online live, I've seen lots of 4s and 5s repeats in a row, few 6s but 7 repeats - its rarity. And rarity is beautiful.

Mr. "AsianGuy" approves this message, btw. :)
Title: Re: Roulette Wheel is Beatable
Post by: Shakuni on June 27, 2015, 03:16:56 AM
I wonder how rare is that to happen, maximum repeats on a same dozen i have seen so far is 6.
Title: Re: Roulette Wheel is Beatable
Post by: Reyth on June 27, 2015, 11:04:07 AM
(http://ecig.herobo.com/1_Doz.png)

Each result is out of 16M spins.  So 1 repeat is 2365521 out of 16M and 16 repeats is 2 out of 16M.  Generally, the results remain the same with only minor variance even into the quadrillions of spins.

Are there extremely rare, once in a lifetime, "Monte Carlo" events that are out of our scope of view?  Yes.  As weak human beings, there is nothing we can do about that.

So if it were possible to create a 16 step progression that would pay profit (or at least break even) you could expect to have a winning system.  This is because of the force of equal distribution (which the casinos know exists) and why there are table limits.

A 10 step progression here would be very strong with only a 0.0000065 chance of failure.  By way of comparison, your 6 repeater occurs 0.0007900625 of the time.

Here is a 10 step progression on 2 dozen:

(http://ecig.herobo.com/2_Doz_Prog.png)

Here we can clearly see why the casino places their limits where they do.

So we see we cannot approach the problem directly because we are fighting simultaneously random odds & the casinos. 

So this is the purpose of system design, to make a twist that will allow us to have "better than direct" access to the force of equal distribution.  This is where we seek the greatest possible edge.

So far the best method I have found consists of the following elements:

1) Waiting for a trigger -- This trigger will give a certain higher percentage chance of success.
2) Flexible progression -- Making a single bet that raises based on loss or chance of success (whichever is greater) at the higher percentage chance & repeat #1 if it misses.

With this method I have been able to improve results by around 50%.  Even with this accomplishment, there is still high variance that can wipe out small to medium size bankrolls.

What I need is a reliable risk and money management system that will control the larger losses (before taking a coup) but still generate reliable profits.
Title: Re: Roulette Wheel is Beatable
Post by: scepticus on June 27, 2015, 12:26:12 PM
Reyth
What if you experimented with a dozen to repeat ? Bet that the last dozen would repeat TWICE in a row for an 8/1 shot.If those lost then bet that there are 4 in a row, 3 wins for a 26/1 shot .If those also lost then bet there would be 5 in a row, 4 wins for a 80 /1 .    27 x 1 unit Level Stakes  ( or whatever ! ) Stop at a win.
I am promiscuous in my betting and am presently experimenting with a 5/4 shot. Experimenting with idea of an INCREASED bet coupled with a single bet.  Expected two 48 point table banks would be enough.Up and down..
Last visit won 76 chips and the previous visit 3 chips ? Hardly Roulette Professional territory - unless a High Roller .
Title: Re: Roulette Wheel is Beatable
Post by: Reyth on June 27, 2015, 12:40:19 PM
Reyth
What if you experimented with a dozen to repeat ?

Yes.

Quote
I am promiscuous in my betting and am presently experimenting with a 5/4 shot. Experimenting with idea of an INCREASED bet coupled with a single bet.  Expected two 48 point table banks would be enough.Up and down..

Yes.  This is my "flexible progression" if you mean one bet that increases each time you make it but you only make it at certain times?
Title: Re: Roulette Wheel is Beatable
Post by: scepticus on June 27, 2015, 02:13:56 PM
Reyth
What if you experimented with a dozen to repeat ?

Yes.

Quote
I am promiscuous in my betting and am presently experimenting with a 5/4 shot. Experimenting with idea of an INCREASED bet coupled with a single bet.  Expected two 48 point table banks would be enough.Up and down..
Yes.  This is my "flexible progression" if you mean one bet that increases each time you make it but you only make it at certain times?

Think of Dobbelsteens two dozens. Bet 2 units on each, if one of them wins you collect 6 units. You  then put 3 units on each of your next two dozens . If one wins you collect 9 units.. a 5/4 shot and start again . If that loses then put FOUR units  on your next two dozens .If one of them wins you collect  12 chips .A profit of four chips so you recover the 4 chips you lost on the last bet. 
it  is still in the experimental  stage.   
Title: Re: Roulette Wheel is Beatable
Post by: GameNeverOver on June 27, 2015, 03:53:11 PM
(http://ecig.herobo.com/1_Doz.png)

Each result is out of 16M spins.  So 1 repeat is 2365521 out of 16M and 16 repeats is 2 out of 16M.  Generally, the results remain the same with only minor variance even into the quadrillions of spins.

Are there extremely rare, once in a lifetime, "Monte Carlo" events that are out of our scope of view?  Yes.  As weak human beings, there is nothing we can do about that.

So if it were possible to create a 16 step progression that would pay profit (or at least break even) you could expect to have a winning system.  This is because of the force of equal distribution (which the casinos know exists) and why there are table limits.

A 10 step progression here would be very strong with only a 0.0000065 chance of failure.  By way of comparison, your 6 repeater occurs 0.0007900625 of the time.

Here is a 10 step progression on 2 dozen:

(http://ecig.herobo.com/2_Doz_Prog.png)

Here we can clearly see why the casino places their limits where they do.

So we see we cannot approach the problem directly because we are fighting simultaneously random odds & the casinos. 

So this is the purpose of system design, to make a twist that will allow us to have "better than direct" access to the force of equal distribution.  This is where we seek the greatest possible edge.

So far the best method I have found consists of the following elements:

1) Waiting for a trigger -- This trigger will give a certain higher percentage chance of success.
2) Flexible progression -- Making a single bet that raises based on loss or chance of success (whichever is greater) at the higher percentage chance & repeat #1 if it misses.

With this method I have been able to improve results by around 50%.  Even with this accomplishment, there is still high variance that can wipe out small to medium size bankrolls.

What I need is a reliable risk and money management system that will control the larger losses (before taking a coup) but still generate reliable profits.

This is something that Jesper can easily play on his BetVoyager account.
Their dozens limits are ranging from 0.01 to 60.00 euro. If he take into consideration that he can wager inside the dozens and on the double streets and the single streets, this can be his Holy Grail.

Trigger: 6 repeats on the same Dozen
After trigger appears: wager on the two sleeping dozens
10 steps progression: 1-3-9-27-81-243-729-2187-6561-19683
Total bankroll required: 1180.96 euro
Premise behind this system: 7.999.999 X 0.01 euro = 79999.99 euro potential winnings before busting the whole bankroll.
Safety Belt/Parachute: 3 X total bankroll = 3542.88 euro.

Go Go Jesper!
=GNO=
Title: Re: Roulette Wheel is Beatable
Post by: Reyth on June 27, 2015, 04:35:14 PM
OH HECK YA!  I would be all over this!!!!

Ok, reality check.  There should be some ways of further testing this method to make sure the buffer (6 spin trigger) has a 1:1 ratio with the expected results:

Code: [Select]
This is complicated to explain but basically we need to test both individual spins to 16 million and 6 buffered
individual spins to make sure they both produce the same results.

Maybe there can be a further way to refine the approach in light of some "Monte Carlo Moment" but as far as I can tell, THIS IS HG!!!!

One day I may be able to do this myself with the 1cent casino. : D
Title: Re: Roulette Wheel is Beatable
Post by: GameNeverOver on June 27, 2015, 04:44:01 PM
OH HECK YA!  I would be all over this!!!!

Ok, reality check.  There should be some ways of further testing this method to make sure the buffer (6 spin trigger) has a 1:1 ratio with the expected results:

Code: [Select]
This is complicated to explain but basically we need to test both individual spins to 16 million and 6 buffered
individual spins to make sure they both produce the same results.

Maybe there can be a further way to refine the approach in light of some "Monte Carlo Moment" but as far as I can tell, THIS IS HG!!!!

One day I may be able to do this myself with the 1cent casino. : D

Final refinement would be waiting for 7 repeats on the same dozen and then use the 10 steps progression. But that would be such a pain in the ass (and I mean real pain from all that sitting and waiting and waiting and waiting..) system. :)

Anyway, that "one day" can be exactly today:
http://www.betvoyager.com/

Go for it! :)

P.S. Euro cents are building blocks of euro. Little by little leads us to little more. :)
Title: Re: Roulette Wheel is Beatable
Post by: Reyth on June 27, 2015, 04:48:37 PM
Bet Voyager accepts US players?
Title: Re: Roulette Wheel is Beatable
Post by: GameNeverOver on June 27, 2015, 04:59:22 PM
Only few online casinos (I think that these are online casinos which already exist in Las Vegas or Atlantic City and thats the reason they) are allowed in US. Its due the US Laws (that don't allow US players to play on the internet) - you know, the Vegas lobby. Its just a measure to protect one of the biggest industries in the US.
Title: Re: Roulette Wheel is Beatable
Post by: GameNeverOver on June 30, 2015, 05:39:26 PM
After a month, finally we got the results from the poll.

10 guys voted:
9 system players
and only
1 VB player.

This just showed us (with proof) that this is forum mostly visited by system players.

All the best,
=GNO=
Title: Re: Roulette Wheel is Beatable
Post by: BlueAngel on June 30, 2015, 05:44:50 PM
After a month, finally we got the results from the poll.

10 guys voted:
9 system players
and only
1 VB player.

This just showed us (with proof) that this is forum mostly visited by system players.

All the best,
=GNO=

My poll is going the same way...
Title: Re: Roulette Wheel is Beatable
Post by: GameNeverOver on June 30, 2015, 05:53:30 PM
@BlueAngel
@Reyth
@Kav

Is there a way to re-use the poll for other question?

If not, how to delete it and create new?
Title: Re: Roulette Wheel is Beatable
Post by: BlueAngel on June 30, 2015, 06:02:43 PM
@BlueAngel
@Reyth
@Kav

Is there a way to re-use the poll for other question?

If not, how to delete it and create new?

I think you should start a new topic
Title: Re: Roulette Wheel is Beatable
Post by: Reyth on June 30, 2015, 06:21:24 PM
@BlueAngel
@Reyth
@Kav

Is there a way to re-use the poll for other question?

If not, how to delete it and create new?

Your poll request is my command!

(http://www.thewolf.ca/files/2014/08/applaus.jpg)

I can edit in any poll parameters you want.
Title: Re: Roulette Wheel is Beatable
Post by: GameNeverOver on June 30, 2015, 06:58:25 PM
@Genie

The new question and options are already inserted. I wish it could be votable! ( :
Title: Re: Roulette Wheel is Beatable
Post by: Reyth on June 30, 2015, 07:01:52 PM
Wow I was able to vote.  Apparently it is counting your previous vote.  Ok I will fix this!

(http://www.thewolf.ca/files/2014/08/applaus.jpg)
Title: Re: Roulette Wheel is Beatable
Post by: GameNeverOver on June 30, 2015, 11:11:36 PM
The Roulette wheel is just like a woman:
in the beginning its unpredictable, but after little observation and learning its "buttons" and learn how to push them right, we start to see how predictable it actually is. :)

ROULETTE WHEEL IS BEATABLE!
=GNO=
P.S. I'm testing the spins from the American Wheel and finally starting to understand it. But it gets kinda boring..
Title: Re: Roulette Wheel is Beatable
Post by: Reyth on July 06, 2015, 11:10:43 PM
I just wanna weigh in here that I totally agree on the large bankroll vs. the relatively small target profit goal.  I can't seem to find a reliable way around this necessity although I have heard a way exists.

Recently I have felt kind of ashamed that I needed a 6000 unit bankroll to be secure in my system play.  I guess I shouldn't feel that way?
Title: Re: Roulette Wheel is Beatable
Post by: scepticus on July 07, 2015, 02:29:33 AM
I usually take just  enough for twenty bets .e.g. £2.5 on Even Chances I take £50. Usually I don't  need to use any more than 10 .On my last visit at  the week -end  I needed to use  no more than  six - and finished winning  8 . ( 8 x 2.5 = 20  )
( I was limbering up for my visit to Mike's place ! )
Possibly 10 would be enough but the trouble is that we cannot tell when a bad run is due .
Title: Re: Roulette Wheel is Beatable
Post by: Reyth on July 07, 2015, 05:12:42 AM
Ya I am terrible are money/risk management. : (
Title: Re: Roulette Wheel is Beatable
Post by: GameNeverOver on July 07, 2015, 01:09:08 PM
I just wanna weigh in here that I totally agree on the large bankroll vs. the relatively small target profit goal.  I can't seem to find a reliable way around this necessity although I have heard a way exists.

Recently I have felt kind of ashamed that I needed a 6000 unit bankroll to be secure in my system play.  I guess I shouldn't feel that way?

You are finally learning something valuable Reyth. :)

In roulette there are two ways to win:
1) is the long, muddy, bloody, s***ty, sweaty "big-bankroll-small-guaranteed-win-every-session" way and
2) is the "hit strong and run" (as fast as possible) way.

If you choose the second way, you'll hope that in the long "short" run the amount of winnings will outnumber the amount of losses: better said if you find something which earns you 2T(otal)B(ankrolls)+1 unit before losing the initial T(otal)B(ankroll) continually, then you have created something worthy for using. Otherwise, its wiser to just go to the casino and GAMBLE. This way, sometime you'll be lucky enough to WIN BIG and buy a nice and super fast car and hope that you'll die in car crush before your next trip to the casino, because this is the only way to stop yourself from gambling away all your possessions. Yes, there are lots of guys across the world who became SUPER ARROGANT and SELF CONFIDENT after just one lucky night at the casino and then continued gambling and after losing all their money they start selling their jewelry, their car, house, get divorced and became homeless and useless bitter members of the society.

If you choose the first way, you'll enter the casino, wait for the trigger, play, activate the progressions, play a little more, win, leave the casino with your small winnings - session after session. In the beginning it might look fun but after few months you'll start looking for ways to grow your winnings per session. After lot of hours spent in research you will again and again get to the same results and conclusions:
if you want to grow your winnings, you'll have:
1) to use bigger bankroll for the current approach or
2) to add additional approaches/systems on your current approach/system (arsenal) and this way earning more per hour on avg (because when you'll be waiting for the trigger for one approach, the trigger for some of the others will be activated and you'll play on it etc)

If you get to that level, you'll realize that the winnings in casinos are kinda fixed and limited (because we must stick to the table minimum and maximum, to our bankrolls and total amount of units in bankroll, to the steps from the progressions, to the time which passes without ever coming back), and that you can earn much much more if you invest that same time and intelligence in something else ex. creating and building a company which can grow without limits and can serve your community, country, or even the WHOLE WORLD.

In one other thread (in "Gambling Addiction Stories" section), I've written that playing roulette for (constant) profits is something that especially the unemployed, the students and retired should learn and do.

@Reyth the day when you'll realize the same is the day when you've officially beaten the Roulette Wheel and when you are ready to move forward with your life, while in the way using everything that you've learned while learning this game (all the laws, all the lows and highs, all the calculations, all the progressions, all the headaches that you went through, all that coldness and emotionlessness you have acquired and with which you'll face all the good and bad situations that will follow further in your life, everything about the not so random randomness which can be found everywhere and in everything around us (your awareness will lift to the point when you will clearly see that everything on this planet and in this Universe is interconnected).

After all, making money from the wheel was never the real, true intention of any roulette player across the world: it was beating it, it was proving that THE PLAYER is SMARTER OR (if not smarter) SMART ENOUGH to outsmart the wheel, the dealer and the casino-over and over again. It is like a mountain peak that we see from afar and we long to reach it..we dream about it, we think about it, make plans how to make it..

And then a day comes when we finally arrive there.
Its a moment of pure bliss followed by deep, dark and silent emptiness..
Title: Re: Roulette Wheel is Beatable
Post by: scepticus on July 07, 2015, 02:05:14 PM
Consider it as looking for a needle in a haystack, Reyth. The needle is definitely there. You can start looking for it from any point on it's outer rim or from any point on the top .
If you look at what system players do you will find here the same - approaching from different directions. Mine is much simpler than most but -so what  if  our different approaches produce a profit ?
Title: Re: Roulette Wheel is Beatable
Post by: GameNeverOver on July 07, 2015, 02:36:44 PM
Like I've already written in the "French vs American Wheel" thread:
I've come to some interesting conclusions from the testing of the 10K cons spins from BM casino.
You can read them there.

Here I'll write about the fact that AMERICAN WHEEL roulette IS HARDER TO BEAT but IT IS BEATABLE TOO. And I'll try to explain the way how I managed to beat the American wheel.

Like I've already explained in that thread, I've used 5 V(irtual)L(os)es and 50 steps progression. After busting the bankroll and reaching to the 68th step in the further testing, I realized that when this approach is concerned, I must use the second way (from the previous post) and apply the "hit strong, kill and run"(but do it from ambush!) mentality.

So what I've done with this approach?
I've twisted it a little. A little more actually. :)

First twist is that I've added +15 VLes to the former 5 and now we are waiting for 20 VLes.
Second twist is that I've cut 40 steps from the progression and now we start with only 10 steps progression, 12 units in total. This starting bankroll will be called "safety bankroll".

Why I've done this?
Because when we enter the casino and sit on the roulette table, we don't have a clue if the wheel is in:
a) destabilization phase or
b) equalization phase.

In case we are landing in the middle of a mine field ("destabilization" phase - like the one I've encountered in the testing: over 400 spins long), we will pass it with losing only 12 units(10 step progression:1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-2-2), amount which can be easily earned back.

Ex. we enter the casino and sit on the table in the moment when "destabilization" phase is activated. We easily get our 20 VLes, and then we lose the 10 steps progression (12 units) and stop playing, just sit and observe. And when the 4 repeats on a dozen finally occur, the "destabilization" phase is over and "equalization" phase begins. In this phase we lower the number of VLes from 20 to 10 VLes and add +15 steps to the progression (25 steps:1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-2-2-2-2-3-3-3-4-4-5-5-6-7-8-9-10-11), total progression requires 94 units (this will be called "assassination bankroll"). Previous 12 units loss + 2 to 8(+) units profit will be achieved very easy in the spins that follow.

The lowering of the VLes from 20 to 10 and the adding of the steps from the progression is not accidental: 10 VLes + 25 steps progression = 35 steps which is exactly the limit from which the "destabilization" phase starts and in which the "equalization" phase works. Plus, in the "equalization" phase, most of the "4 repeats on a dozen in a row", occur somewhere between 10th and 30th step, thus with the twisting we cover these potential occurings and easily obtain the lost 12 units + make profit.

***Very important thing to mention here:***
The only way to recognize "destabilization" phase is the length of it:
it always passes 30 steps + 5 VLes = it gets over 35 steps. Everything below these numbers is not "destabilization" phase and before reaching and passing this destructive phase we must stick to the 20VLes + 10 steps progression (safety play).

Total Bankroll for this Hit2Kill approach required:
12 (safety bankroll) + 94 (assassination bankroll) = 106 units.

Profit per session:
It depends. It starts from +1 and can get to +8 or even more units.

Don't be greedy: quit the session on any win, no matter if you made it using the "safety bankroll" or the "assassination bankroll".
To be honest, most of the time you will make profits in the very beginning from the playing, with using only the "safety bankroll" and will never have to use the "assassination bankroll".

Give it a try and give me back your feedback and opinions.
=GNO=
Title: Re: Roulette Wheel is Beatable
Post by: GameNeverOver on July 07, 2015, 02:39:21 PM
Consider it as looking for a needle in a haystack, Reyth. The needle is definitely there. You can start looking for it from any point on it's outer rim or from any point on the top .
If you look at what system players do you will find here the same - approaching from different directions. Mine is much simpler than most but -so what  if  our different approaches produce a profit ?

I've just read few of the posts where you challenge the experts to prove they are really APes and that AP is working for real. Did someone accept the challenge till now? And why not? :)
Title: Re: Roulette Wheel is Beatable
Post by: scepticus on July 07, 2015, 04:30:45 PM
Consider it as looking for a needle in a haystack, Reyth. The needle is definitely there. You can start looking for it from any point on it's outer rim or from any point on the top .
If you look at what system players do you will find here the same - approaching from different directions. Mine is much simpler than most but -so what  if  our different approaches produce a profit ?

I've just read few of the posts where you challenge the experts to prove they are really APes and that AP is working for real. Did someone accept the challenge till now? And why not? :)

I don't think so GNO.  Mike  avoids discussing a date where I can prove he  is wrong to claim that we cannot use virtual bets .I had looked forward to visit his local  casino where he  claims he can find a
 " flawed  wheel ". He is full of bluff and bluster - always turning a discussion to Method Betting and 
avoids giving us the opportunity to criticise HIS version of Advantage Play.
Frankly, I don't think he plays roulette at all . just indulges in his prejudiced view .
I shall be adding a post to my Roulette Strategies to clarify my Birthday Method . Not that it will  change the blinkered view of the APes .

Title: Re: Roulette Wheel is Beatable
Post by: Reyth on July 07, 2015, 05:19:35 PM
Thanks guys!

You know its interesting, we are all meeting the same roulette "beast" as seen through the window of our individual systems.

I have found the Harry J method the very best way to pacify that beast but even then, it is such a monster!

Its like 90% of the time we don't even see it & playing roulette is like blissful.  Then 9% of the time we have a struggle that is manageable.  Its that 1% of the time that everything goes bat shoes crazy that is the destroyer of men...

(http://cdn.womensunitedonline.com/pregnancyandbaby/articles/2009/10/baby-bat-shoes.jpg)
Title: Re: Roulette Wheel is Beatable
Post by: scepticus on July 07, 2015, 06:07:19 PM
OOPs  ! Just realised something  ! I won't be saying anything more about my Birthday Method !
I have taken down the page in my website  - but  not for the reason Slacker or mike gives ! Phew !
And my offer to meet his challenge still stands !
Title: Re: Roulette Wheel is Beatable
Post by: GameNeverOver on July 08, 2015, 01:21:36 AM
Its like 90% of the time we don't even see it & playing roulette is like blissful.  Then 9% of the time we have a struggle that is manageable.  Its that 1% of the time that everything goes bat shoes crazy that is the destroyer of men...

The beast gets tired, sooner or later, and slowly everything starts to get back to normal. :)

If you've chosen the first way to tame it, you'll play with it till it is finally tired (the "destabilization" phase I was writing about) and surrender (enter the "equalization" phase). Its important to mention that the beast just surrenders, its not slayed. In the "equalization" phase, the beats recollect his strength and prepares for another fight (another "destabilization" phase).

If you've chosen the second way to tame it, you'll just quit playing when the things start to get ugly and out of control. You just remain silent and hidden till the beast is looking for you, and after a while it gets tired and lay down to rest. Then you leave your hiding place, perform surprise attack, steel something from the beast while doing the attack and run away. Sometimes these surprise attacks won't be successful and you'll lose a teeth or two. But most of the attacks will end up with you steeling something of value from the beast and in the long run the things you've stolen will outnumber the things you've lost while trying to perform the heist.

=GNO=
Title: Re: Roulette Wheel is Beatable
Post by: GameNeverOver on July 08, 2015, 01:23:27 AM
And my offer to meet his challenge still stands !

It will remain that way for very, very long time.. probably forever! :)
Title: Re: Roulette Wheel is Beatable
Post by: dobbelsteen on July 08, 2015, 09:20:07 AM
GNO it is very easy to write a lot of nonsens in perfect Oxford English, but it is much more difficult to explain in simple English the theory to beat the roulette.
Explain how you ascertain a virtual loss without a plan.

20 virtual losses  for ECs, dozens , columns and DS systems are very very exceptional.
 What is your System?
Title: Re: Roulette Wheel is Beatable
Post by: GameNeverOver on July 08, 2015, 09:26:44 AM
GNO it is very easy to write a lot of nonsens in perfect Oxford English, but it is much more difficult to explain in simple English the theory to beat the roulette.
Explain how you ascertain a virtual loss without a plan.

20 virtual losses  for ECs, dozens , columns and DS systems are very very exceptional.
 What is your System?

It is already explained. Just get back and reread it.

Sorry if I insulted you, that was not my intention.
=GNO=
Title: Re: Roulette Wheel is Beatable
Post by: GameNeverOver on July 23, 2015, 02:11:05 AM
I got great news folks:
There is not one, but at least three HGs!

So never lose hope and keep learning and learning. And never ever stop THINKING DEEPLY!

Good luck,
=GNO=
Title: Re: Roulette Wheel is Beatable
Post by: weird on July 30, 2015, 04:22:22 AM

Why I've done this?
Because when we enter the casino and sit on the roulette table, we don't have a clue if the wheel is in:
a) destabilization phase or
b) equalization phase.

In case we are landing in the middle of a mine field ("destabilization" phase - like the one I've encountered in the testing: over 400 spins long), we will pass it with losing only 12 units(10 step progression:1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-2-2), amount which can be easily earned back.

Ex. we enter the casino and sit on the table in the moment when "destabilization" phase is activated. We easily get our 20 VLes, and then we lose the 10 steps progression (12 units) and stop playing, just sit and observe. And when the 4 repeats on a dozen finally occur, the "destabilization" phase is over and "equalization" phase begins. In this phase we lower the number of VLes from 20 to 10 VLes and add +15 steps to the progression (25 steps:1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-2-2-2-2-3-3-3-4-4-5-5-6-7-8-9-10-11), total progression requires 94 units (this will be called "assassination bankroll"). Previous 12 units loss + 2 to 8(+) units profit will be achieved very easy in the spins that follow.

Give it a try and give me back your feedback and opinions.
=GNO=

Hi GNO,
With Respect,
I understand that u have something that, I could understand, but people find them very hard to grasp.
Anyway, my thought is, why no u just play virtual, when enter casino, not knowing where the 'phase',
till the huge virtual losses occur, and the bet real money, when everything a breeze, isnt that more acceptable,  but need patient.
thanks.
Title: Re: Roulette Wheel is Beatable
Post by: dobbelsteen on July 30, 2015, 08:35:53 AM
The HE is unbeatable.
I try to close my sessions with a positieve result. I use strategies and the hit and run method.
 When I leave the casino with a positive result, I have the feeling I have beaten the roulette.
Title: Re: Roulette Wheel is Beatable
Post by: scepticus on July 30, 2015, 01:45:08 PM
The HE is unbeatable.
I try to close my sessions with a positieve result. I use strategies and the hit and run method.
 When I leave the casino with a positive result, I have the feeling I have beaten the roulette.

When you leave the casino with a profit how can you then say that the HE is unbeatable ? The HE can never be erased -  it is always there - but it IS beatable.
If the Method you have devised has shown a profit over a reasonable period
then it is reasonable to say that it is a winning method until it shows a loss.
When that will happen is for the future to decide not mere mortals claiming psychic powers .
Nothing personal Dobbel but I get irritated by the negativity on this and other forums .
Title: Re: Roulette Wheel is Beatable
Post by: Reyth on July 30, 2015, 01:51:13 PM
I think it might be a technical point that the HE cannot be beaten (because its fixed in place and cannot be altered by anything a player can do whether they bet or not) but that a player can relatively easily make more money than the cost of the HE by using a strategy in combination with their system.

Ya, people that run around saying "Independent events, HE, game over! TEE HEE!" are annoying.  I am 100% confident Dobble isn't one of those people but for the longest time I thought he was!  X D
Title: Re: Roulette Wheel is Beatable
Post by: Harryj on July 30, 2015, 08:48:58 PM
    I think it is fair to say that the HE can't be beaten, but it can be buried !!

             Harry
Title: Re: Roulette Wheel is Beatable
Post by: GameNeverOver on July 30, 2015, 09:24:54 PM

Hi GNO,
With Respect,
I understand that u have something that, I could understand, but people find them very hard to grasp.
Anyway, my thought is, why no u just play virtual, when enter casino, not knowing where the 'phase',
till the huge virtual losses occur, and the bet real money, when everything a breeze, isnt that more acceptable,  but need patient.
thanks.

Dear @Weird
Everything around this approach is explained in this part:

"Ex. we enter the casino and sit on the table in the moment when "destabilization" phase is activated. We easily get our 20 VLes, and then we lose the 10 steps progression (12 units) and stop playing, just sit and observe. And when the 4 repeats on a dozen finally occur, the "destabilization" phase is over and "equalization" phase begins. In this phase we lower the number of VLes from 20 to 10 VLes and add +15 steps to the progression (25 steps:1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-2-2-2-2-3-3-3-4-4-5-5-6-7-8-9-10-11), total progression requires 94 units (this will be called "assassination bankroll"). Previous 12 units loss + 2 to 8(+) units profit will be achieved very easy in the spins that follow.The lowering of the VLes from 20 to 10 and the adding of the steps from the progression is not accidental: 10 VLes + 25 steps progression = 35 steps which is exactly the limit from which the "destabilization" phase starts and in which the "equalization" phase works. Plus, in the "equalization" phase, most of the "4 repeats on a dozen in a row", occur somewhere between 10th and 30th step, thus with the twisting we cover these potential occurings and easily obtain the lost 12 units + make profit.***Very important thing to mention here:***The only way to recognize "destabilization" phase is the length of it:it always passes 30 steps + 5 VLes = it gets over 35 steps. Everything below these numbers is not "destabilization" phase and before reaching and passing this destructive phase we must stick to the 20VLes + 10 steps progression (safety play)."

So, if we just sit still and wait for the "destabilization phase" to occur, we might spend whole night in sitting and waiting. But with adding the small 12 units bankroll, we can get a winner in the very beginning of our play.

In case we sit on the table when the wheel is entering into "destabilization phase" then this 12 units bankroll will be our insurance that we won't lose big and after the ending of this "destabilization phase" with implementing the 10 Vles + 25 steps progression we ensure our profits. They are small, but we are still talking about profits.

=GNO=
Title: Re: Roulette Wheel is Beatable
Post by: Reyth on July 30, 2015, 09:40:28 PM
Wow sounds awesome!
Title: Re: Roulette Wheel is Beatable
Post by: GameNeverOver on July 30, 2015, 09:42:55 PM
The HE is unbeatable.
I try to close my sessions with a positieve result. I use strategies and the hit and run method.
 When I leave the casino with a positive result, I have the feeling I have beaten the roulette.

When you leave the casino with a profit how can you then say that the HE is unbeatable ? The HE can never be erased -  it is always there - but it IS beatable.
If the Method you have devised has shown a profit over a reasonable period
then it is reasonable to say that it is a winning method until it shows a loss.
When that will happen is for the future to decide not mere mortals claiming psychic powers .
Nothing personal Dobbel but I get irritated by the negativity on this and other forums .

@Scepticus

me, you, Harry and Palestis perceive the HE like the amount of money that the casinos are trying to squeeze from us when entering in, and we perceive the beating of the HE like an X amount of money that we try and succeed to squeeze from them.

On the other side, Dobbel and few others perceive the HE like its described in the books: it equals 2.7%/5.26% because if we cover all 37/38 numbers with one unit each we will get 36 units back, thus losing 1/2 units in the process.

But because we are more interested in taking money from the casinos then losing to them, we should use the first meaning of the terms "HE" and "beating the HE"..but this is a free world and everyone can do as he pleases.
Title: Re: Roulette Wheel is Beatable
Post by: scepticus on July 30, 2015, 10:58:25 PM
My view of the HE is that it gives the House an Edge .
My argument is that an Edge does NOT mean that it is not beatable -only that the House has an advantage. 
In ALL forms  of gambling one of the parties is  at a disadvantage and yet bettors DO actually beat the odds.So why not in roulette ?  Like you and others here I say that it depends on WHAT and WHEN we bet that determines whether or not we win.
THE EXPECTATION IS THAT  WE WILL LOSE 2'7% IN THE FIRST 37 SPINS  so why don;t mathematicians claim that we will lose within the first 37 spins ? Because they know it isn't true. If it isn't true within the FIRST 37 why should it be true in any subsequent series of 37 spins when variance is the arbiter ?
Mathematicians  play their  " GET OUT OF JAIL FREE CARD "by claiming that in some unspecified  LONG RUN we WILL inevitably lose. The Long Run in Probability Theory states that we will lose "the nearer  we get to infinity ". The human race won't reach infinity never mind an individual bettor which is why I say that the HE is irrelevant in roulette . In theory perhaps - but in   practice ? 
Mathematicians may be entitled to say that we are more likely to win than lose but they are not entitled to say that we MUST lose. Nor are our critics.
Title: Re: Roulette Wheel is Beatable
Post by: GameNeverOver on July 31, 2015, 07:06:11 AM
My view of the HE is that it gives the House an Edge .

Totally agree.
Title: Re: Roulette Wheel is Beatable
Post by: GameNeverOver on July 31, 2015, 07:07:17 AM
    I think it is fair to say that the HE can't be beaten, but it can be buried !!

             Harry

buried and suffocated to death! :)

@Harry

You've nailed it with a nail gun. Right in the head!
Title: Re: Roulette Wheel is Beatable
Post by: les on August 13, 2015, 08:30:39 AM
Roulette is beatable  yes and no

yes with an integrated approach bring to gather several concept not  percept

no with systems and mechanical approach [percept] 

I can see why Real and Mike are unpopular [objective and rational tinkers]   

in my view you guys need to sober up [no disrespect to any one ] from the laziness [easy way ]   

that you trying to protect  after all you want to make some profit
Title: Re: Roulette Wheel is Beatable
Post by: Mike on August 13, 2015, 12:26:00 PM
Les,

Thanks for the compliment.

I'm curious as to what you mean by this:

Quote
yes with an integrated approach bring to gather several concept not  percept

no with systems and mechanical approach

Isn't an "integrated approach" also a system?

In my view, a system is any methodical approach to playing roulette (not including advantage play). In short, anything other than betting randomly is a system.

How would YOU define a system?
Title: Re: Roulette Wheel is Beatable
Post by: Trilobite on August 13, 2015, 12:46:52 PM

 ...after all you want to make some profit

 

No argument that profit is nice and we all need to pay our bills.

However a comprehensive defeat of this roulette game is infinitely nobler than any dollars attached. A methodology that finally conquers roulette should be considered as a priceless artistic masterpiece, not just a pretty picture that can sell for a pretty price...

...think about it.
Title: Re: Roulette Wheel is Beatable
Post by: les on August 13, 2015, 01:23:09 PM
Les,

Thanks for the compliment.

I'm curious as to what you mean by this:

Quote
yes with an integrated approach bring to gather several concept not  percept

no with systems and mechanical approach

Isn't an "integrated approach" also a system?

In my view, a system is any methodical approach to playing roulette (not including advantage play). In short, anything other than betting randomly is a system.

How would YOU define a system?
Les,

Thanks for the compliment.

I'm curious as to what you mean by this:

Quote
yes with an integrated approach bring to gather several concept not  percept

no with systems and mechanical approach

Isn't an "integrated approach" also a system?

In my view, a system is any methodical approach to playing roulette (not including advantage play). In short, anything other than betting randomly is a system.

How would YOU define a system?
Title: Re: Roulette Wheel is Beatable
Post by: les on August 13, 2015, 01:54:25 PM
sorry I pressed a wrong button [learning forum feature ]

MIKE   the way I understand roulette systems is unintegrated or disintegrated [powerless approach]

system is not easy to define. example  capitalist-socialist-communist they all widely integrated  systems but the 2nd and 3d incompatible with human nature

in short in roulette it means pick 1 or 2 aspect and try to navigate trough the unbelievable   

randomness of roulette

Title: Re: Roulette Wheel is Beatable
Post by: Trilobite on August 13, 2015, 02:20:44 PM
les, you're losing it bro..

For starters, there's nothing unbelievable about the randomness of roulette.


Mike, I know you really want to punch everyone's lights out around here so stop being a pussy! Hahahaha!
Title: Re: Roulette Wheel is Beatable
Post by: les on August 13, 2015, 10:27:31 PM
thanks   bro

 ps; the only rational reason to play roulette is to profit from it   

             GOD  BLESS
Title: Re: Roulette Wheel is Beatable
Post by: Reyth on August 13, 2015, 10:36:19 PM
But I want to "stay in the game a long time" : ' (
Title: Re: Roulette Wheel is Beatable
Post by: les on August 13, 2015, 10:48:35 PM
Learn how win first and you can stay in it forever and this no joke  I've seen many loosing

everything
Title: Re: Roulette Wheel is Beatable
Post by: Reyth on August 14, 2015, 02:53:10 AM
Mike, I know you really want to punch everyone's lights out around here so stop being a pussy! Hahahaha!

I think we are slowly wearing him down.  I just saw a thread where he discussed the math regarding a particular system and it practically sounded like he was a system player! : o
Title: Re: Roulette Wheel is Beatable
Post by: les on August 14, 2015, 04:29:09 AM
I do not think MIKE is a system player maybe just looking for a bet selection that would 

make it easier to   win just like all of you here  but no such bet exist  as of now .

there is no need to give him a hard time
Title: Re: Roulette Wheel is Beatable
Post by: Reyth on August 14, 2015, 04:44:51 AM
I do not think MIKE is a system player maybe just looking for a bet selection that would 

make it easier to   win just like all of you here  but no such bet exist  as of now .

there is no need to give him a hard time

I tried giving him a hard time once, it didn't work out too well.  He made me feel so guilty I actually had to sort of apologize and such... (blush)
Title: Re: Roulette Wheel is Beatable
Post by: Mike on August 14, 2015, 07:20:40 AM

I think we are slowly wearing him down. 

Then my cunning plan is working.... MU HA HA HA HA HA!  [strokes white cat in lap]

Seriously though, I understand the appeal and challenge of trying to beat roulette, but there are no reasons for thinking that these approaches will work. When challenged to come up with even a reasonable argument (never mind any actual empirical evidence), all I get is smoke and mirrors like "in short in roulette it means pick 1 or 2 aspect and try to navigate trough the unbelievable".

Some even agree with me that systems don't work, outcomes are random and independent, etc, but still claim they are winning consistently because they don't use a "mechanical" method. But what would a "non-mechanical" method look like? it's a contradiction in terms.

Title: Re: Roulette Wheel is Beatable
Post by: Reyth on August 14, 2015, 08:44:03 PM
I certainly will agree that unless someone is able to do something extraordinary, overall loss in roulette will be the result.

The only thing I have been able to prove so far is that the means to do something extraordinary definitely exists.   Properly making use of that means is the goal of all system design.
Title: Re: Roulette Wheel is Beatable
Post by: TheGenner on August 15, 2015, 01:12:52 AM
Just remember 'Murphy's Law'.....

Anything that can happen will happen.

So yes, the roulette wheel is beatable.

Title: Re: Roulette Wheel is Beatable
Post by: Reyth on August 15, 2015, 01:46:32 AM
Just remember 'Murphy's Law'.....

Anything that can happen will happen.

So yes, the roulette wheel is beatable.

(http://www.pakpassion.net/ppforum/attachment.php?attachmentid=53702&d=1422708370)

Way to turn the argument on its head!!
Title: Re: Roulette Wheel is Beatable
Post by: GameNeverOver on August 15, 2015, 12:33:18 PM

 ...after all you want to make some profit

 

No argument that profit is nice and we all need to pay our bills.

However a comprehensive defeat of this roulette game is infinitely nobler than any dollars attached. A methodology that finally conquers roulette should be considered as a priceless artistic masterpiece, not just a pretty picture that can sell for a pretty price...

...think about it.


The "methodology that finally conquers roulette" you are talking about here Trilo is nothing more then plain "Patience".

If you acquire and master this virtue, you will prosper in every aspect from your life.

So better said:
conquering roulette equals conquering your biggest enemy - yourself.
Title: Re: Roulette Wheel is Beatable
Post by: GameNeverOver on August 15, 2015, 12:34:53 PM
Just remember 'Murphy's Law'.....

Anything that can happen will happen.

So yes, the roulette wheel is beatable.

Made my day! :D
Title: Re: Roulette Wheel is Beatable
Post by: GameNeverOver on December 21, 2015, 11:42:07 PM
Winning at roulette..anyone?! :D
Title: Re: Roulette Wheel is Beatable
Post by: Reyth on December 22, 2015, 12:23:26 AM
Welcome back! : D
Title: Re: Roulette Wheel is Beatable
Post by: GameNeverOver on August 21, 2016, 07:40:07 AM
I'm still standing behind this statement.

=GNO=
Title: Re: Roulette Wheel is Beatable
Post by: Rinad on February 12, 2017, 05:37:53 AM
I just wanna weigh in here that I totally agree on the large bankroll vs. the relatively small target profit goal.  I can't seem to find a reliable way around this necessity although I have heard a way exists.

Recently I have felt kind of ashamed that I needed a 6000 unit bankroll to be secure in my system play.  I guess I shouldn't feel that way?

You are finally learning something valuable Reyth. :)

In roulette there are two ways to win:
1) is the long, muddy, bloody, s***ty, sweaty "big-bankroll-small-guaranteed-win-every-session" way and
2) is the "hit strong and run" (as fast as possible) way.

If you choose the second way, you'll hope that in the long "short" run the amount of winnings will outnumber the amount of losses: better said if you find something which earns you 2T(otal)B(ankrolls)+1 unit before losing the initial T(otal)B(ankroll) continually, then you have created something worthy for using. Otherwise, its wiser to just go to the casino and GAMBLE. This way, sometime you'll be lucky enough to WIN BIG and buy a nice and super fast car and hope that you'll die in car crush before your next trip to the casino, because this is the only way to stop yourself from gambling away all your possessions. Yes, there are lots of guys across the world who became SUPER ARROGANT and SELF CONFIDENT after just one lucky night at the casino and then continued gambling and after losing all their money they start selling their jewelry, their car, house, get divorced and became homeless and useless bitter members of the society.

If you choose the first way, you'll enter the casino, wait for the trigger, play, activate the progressions, play a little more, win, leave the casino with your small winnings - session after session. In the beginning it might look fun but after few months you'll start looking for ways to grow your winnings per session. After lot of hours spent in research you will again and again get to the same results and conclusions:
if you want to grow your winnings, you'll have:
1) to use bigger bankroll for the current approach or
2) to add additional approaches/systems on your current approach/system (arsenal) and this way earning more per hour on avg (because when you'll be waiting for the trigger for one approach, the trigger for some of the others will be activated and you'll play on it etc)

If you get to that level, you'll realize that the winnings in casinos are kinda fixed and limited (because we must stick to the table minimum and maximum, to our bankrolls and total amount of units in bankroll, to the steps from the progressions, to the time which passes without ever coming back), and that you can earn much much more if you invest that same time and intelligence in something else ex. creating and building a company which can grow without limits and can serve your community, country, or even the WHOLE WORLD.

In one other thread (in "Gambling Addiction Stories" section), I've written that playing roulette for (constant) profits is something that especially the unemployed, the students and retired should learn and do.

@Reyth the day when you'll realize the same is the day when you've officially beaten the Roulette Wheel and when you are ready to move forward with your life, while in the way using everything that you've learned while learning this game (all the laws, all the lows and highs, all the calculations, all the progressions, all the headaches that you went through, all that coldness and emotionlessness you have acquired and with which you'll face all the good and bad situations that will follow further in your life, everything about the not so random randomness which can be found everywhere and in everything around us (your awareness will lift to the point when you will clearly see that everything on this planet and in this Universe is interconnected).

After all, making money from the wheel was never the real, true intention of any roulette player across the world: it was beating it, it was proving that THE PLAYER is SMARTER OR (if not smarter) SMART ENOUGH to outsmart the wheel, the dealer and the casino-over and over again. It is like a mountain peak that we see from afar and we long to reach it..we dream about it, we think about it, make plans how to make it..

And then a day comes when we finally arrive there.
Its a moment of pure bliss followed by deep, dark and silent emptiness..
  very well said. it is a lot more spiritual then we think. and all the time and hard work we thought was wasted all of a sudden leads us to a place of blessings. we finaly see reality. not just the wheel.
Title: Re: Roulette Wheel is Beatable
Post by: MrPerfect. on April 15, 2017, 10:46:48 AM
 So what about third way of situation developing? When we use coins to create considerably big winnings, multiplying our bankroll multiple times in the middle of the process?  Or you guys gonna tell that lm unreal and this situation can not happen?
   So what's about this " reality " you guys "see"?
 If you ask myself, l would tell it's illusion.