Roulette Forum

Roulette Forum => Roulette Strategy Discussion => Topic started by: Real on June 17, 2016, 01:45:12 AM

Title: Roulette systems don't work
Post by: Real on June 17, 2016, 01:45:12 AM
Attempting to beat the random game of roulette by designing systems based on the layout is as absurd as trying to break into a computer by smashing the monitor.
Title: Re: Roulette systems don't work
Post by: kav on June 17, 2016, 01:57:06 AM
Attempting to beat the random game of roulette by designing systems based on the layout is as absurd as trying to break into a computer by smashing the monitor.
Real,
Of your 950 posts, the 900 are the same post with different wordings: "roulette systems don't work". So every new post with the same content you make will be posted here and move this topic to the top. Eventually we will have a mega-thread with hundreds of posts with the same message.

I'm sorry that this forum is (also) about roulette systems.
I'm sure that in the other "advantage play" forums you participate, you share the real methods to become rich by "playing the wheel". I am very happy for your success and I really wonder why not everyone follows your overly successful methods.
Title: Re: Roulette systems don't work
Post by: Sheridan44 on June 17, 2016, 02:05:24 AM
True Real..... but I'm just trying to find a few of the better methods to keep me afloat as I get better at this. AP may very well be the best way to go....  I guess I'm going through the roulette school of hard knocks 101 (LOL) until I learn more.
Title: Re: Roulette systems don't work
Post by: Reyth on June 17, 2016, 02:09:52 AM
People have a right to their opinions and this forum is about that too.
Title: Re: Roulette systems don't work
Post by: Jesper on June 17, 2016, 04:46:31 AM
They can not work in the sense of get over the house advantages.  That's do not mean they are not useful. I can agree with some are voodoo.  The same goes for other methods, like statistic, there is very little useful information when it comes to know which to bet (know about it is useful). Even claims from AP iare often just they had luck an evening using the ap-methods, and unlucky days blames the wheel ("as some are easier and other"). It is a game of chance, without cheating we can never sure win. The random in the game can make some players win and even win for long and much.

It is clever designed  1.3 to 2.7% HA, makes enough winners, so the casinos can stay in business.

The reason I play on line is I can get near zero house advantages and many chips for an Euro. I use methods, the reason is I can estimate which should happen for winning and losing, they do not predict.

There is some skill in the game, but not as know which number is next or some a head.
Title: Re: Roulette systems don't work
Post by: Bayes on June 17, 2016, 07:11:31 AM
Real,
Of your 950 posts, the 900 are the same post with different wordings: "roulette systems don't work". So every new post with the same content you make will be posted here and move this topic to the top. Eventually we will have a mega-thread with hundreds of posts with the same message.

Perhaps the explanation is that Real isn't really real, but a bot. An AP bot.

Quote
designing systems based on the layout

If the wheel is unbiased,  systems based on the wheel are no better than systems based on the layout.

Yes, mathematically roulette is unbeatable, but maths doesn't play roulette, people do. What Real does has nothing to do with roulette, it's about looking for broken wheels. And he totally ignores the reasons why people play the game, some of which might be:
Since when has the only criteria for success in anything been making money?
Title: Re: Roulette systems don't work
Post by: Rourke on June 17, 2016, 08:25:40 AM
Quote
And he totally ignores the reasons why people play the game, some of which might be:
•It's just fun.
•The challenge of attempting the "impossible".
•To learn about randomness, probability, statistics, and risk.
•To learn self-discipline and how to master their impulses and emotions.
•Because creating roulette systems is an exercise in creativity.

Spot on Bayes... Espically the part about self-discipline :-) Through the years of playing I've become much more aware of my emotions during play and it is keeping me from following a bad streak and just leave the table instead.
Title: Re: Roulette systems don't work
Post by: kav on June 17, 2016, 08:32:56 AM
Yes, mathematically roulette is unbeatable, but maths doesn't play roulette, people do. What Real does has nothing to do with roulette, it's about looking for broken wheels. And he totally ignores the reasons why people play the game, some of which might be:
  • It's just fun.
  • The challenge of attempting the "impossible".
  • To learn about randomness, probability, statistics, and risk.
  • To learn self-discipline and how to master their impulses and emotions.
  • Because creating roulette systems is an exercise in creativity.
Since when has the only criteria for success in anything been making money?

Could not have said it better myself!
Title: Re: Roulette systems don't work
Post by: RouletteGhost on June 20, 2016, 02:32:04 AM
Awww!

The General is so cute

He has to pound his chest on ALLLL FORUMS

Poor soul

I guess looking for biased wheels has a lot of down time. Enough down time where you actually care that people create and play systems

A bit pathetic. Man you really are dedicated.

Mod Note:  Sorry, personal attacks are not allowed in this forum
Title: Re: Roulette systems don't work
Post by: Real on June 20, 2016, 04:41:48 AM
Quote
Since when has the only criteria for success in anything been making money?

It's kind of funny to imply that most of the people here aren't interested in making money.  :)

If that was the case, there wouldn't be so many nested hucksters and system scammers here.  They're often trying to sell their systems since they can't make any money playing.  But Bayes, I think that you are the exception ;)  I realize that you're not trying to make any money, whatsoever, while playing the game. 
------------------------------
@RouletteGhost,

Ignorance isn't a virtue. 
Also, don't get so worked up by taking these forums too seriously.  All is well. :)
Title: Re: Roulette systems don't work
Post by: mr j on June 20, 2016, 05:19:22 AM
(http://lifesorted.ca/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/denial-300x241.jpg) I agree with Real regarding this subject, 100%
Title: Re: Roulette systems don't work
Post by: Bebediktus on June 20, 2016, 06:19:43 AM
I I am very happy for your success and I really wonder why not everyone follows your overly successful methods.
Kav, I can answer to your questtion. Advantative methods of play needs not only reading half page of instructions what bet after previous bet, but they need many trainings. Maybe even year or more. Not every can allow that and even if can, then not means that he can learn all that.
User of AP is like some champion in some sport - say bowling. Not every can become champion and not every can reach such level, which allow overcome house edge.

So AP way is very hard and needs much job, but player at least have chance to be winner,  if to look to systems - here player not have even that chance.... 

It's kind of funny to imply that most of the people here aren't interested in making money.  :)
Yes, they not interested in making money on roulette - that i understand  many time before, but they are interested in talking about roulette and dreaming about some easy wins, no matter that all that is not realistic....
Title: Re: Roulette systems don't work
Post by: dobbelsteen on June 20, 2016, 08:17:54 AM
All systems doesnot work ON THE LONG RUN. Everal system can make a profit on the short run. The main problem is , the player doesnot stop after his profit. Hit and run is his problem. An AP player has the same chance. Most visitors of forums are looking for a cheap HG
Roulette is a game and everybody can learn it, but there are a very few who can make a licing or roulette.
Title: Re: Roulette systems don't work
Post by: kav on June 20, 2016, 08:31:44 AM
Bebe,
Mainly we agree.

I think the main point of disagreement are the reasons why AP is so rare a method. You may say its because people do not get it, or I may say it is because it is practically almost impossible. But the reasons are not the important issue actually.
We can both agree that: because (.... put your own reason here ....) , AP is not relevant to most of us.
Then I find it completely counterproductive to disrupt every system discussion, telling people that they are stupid and only AP works.

To give you an example:
It is like going to a weightlifting forum and say again and again "Hey! you are losing your time. The world record is 250Kg and you can't reach it"
Now we can disagree if the reason you can't beat it is lack of skill, training or doping, but we can both agree the comment is irrelevant.

That's why such comments from now on will be moved to this topic.
Title: Re: Roulette systems don't work
Post by: Bayes on June 20, 2016, 08:50:43 AM
It's kind of funny to imply that most of the people here aren't interested in making money.  :)

That's not what I said, as you well know. I said it's not the *only* criteria. I think many system players are aware that what they're doing is mathematically impossible, but still try, for the reasons I gave above.

Quote
I agree with Real regarding this subject, 100%

So Ken, you've gone over to the "dark side" now?

Systems don't work?  :)
Title: Re: Roulette systems don't work
Post by: spins on June 20, 2016, 08:54:19 AM
this forum needs a thumbs up thumbs down like facebook kav's last post is a big thumbs up and many would agree, I think a lot of system players, only elaborate on certain areas of their game play, so not to expose their winning methods in fear of change to rng's, no different to ap players at a casino that wouldn't wont to expose themselves as such, I cant see this changing.   
Title: Re: Roulette systems don't work
Post by: Reyth on June 20, 2016, 08:56:24 AM
(https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/236x/96/91/cd/9691cdd52fcc78649d438729f95df2e1.jpg)

And btw, wats up with this:

(http://i66.tinypic.com/2012lc1.png)(http://i63.tinypic.com/b84mu1.png)

(http://iichan.hk/gf/src/1356185903235.gif)
Title: Re: Roulette systems don't work
Post by: Bebediktus on June 20, 2016, 09:36:21 AM
Bebe,
Mainly we agree.

I think the main point of disagreement are the reasons why AP is so rare a method. You may say its because people do not get it, or I may say it is because it is practically almost impossible. But the reasons are not the important issue actually.
To give you an example:
It is like going to a weightlifting forum and say again and again "Hey! you are losing your time. The world record is 250Kg and you can't reach it"
Now we can disagree if the reason you can't beat it is lack of skill, training or doping, but we can both agree the comment is irrelevant.
AP is so rare because it is hard and need  a lot time.  But that is not main.
I can give you better example - say your aim is to go to Moscow. Now what is alegoria with system player - he moves in random direction and try to reach his aim , if not reach he change direction and start move with double speed again not  reach again  other direction and again double speed ...
What do AP - he calculate with compass direction and move accordingly his calculations.
Now say who have better chances to reach aim ?

AP also can miss aim, but he have better chances.

Now back to system player - is not better  for him  abit to think about direction  ? No matter it will be exact or not but still it will be in most cases better than random.....
Title: Re: Roulette systems don't work
Post by: kav on June 20, 2016, 11:02:39 AM
I can give you better example - say your aim is to go to Moscow. Now what is alegoria with system player - he moves in random direction and try to reach his aim , if not reach he change direction and start move with double speed again not  reach again  other direction and again double speed ...
What do AP - he calculate with compass direction and move accordingly his calculations.
Now say who have better chances to reach aim ?

AP also can miss aim, but he have better chances.

Now back to system player - is not better  for him  about to think about direction  ? No matter it will be exact or not but still it will be in most cases better than random.....

This is a very nice parable.
Yes, let's say we want to go to Moscow.
And yes, it is possible to never arrive there, AP player or system player.
And even if the AP has a compass, the system player has a remote possibility to arrive at Moscow out of pure luck, even if the AP has the "compass".

Now these are my main objections to Real's attitude:
He doesn't describe AP as a "compass", he makes it look like a fast train to Moscow, which is not true and misleading.
In this forum we discuss like sharing directions and experiences and "maps of explorations" between us in order to help each other. Now how helpful is to just pop up like a smart-ass and say: "Hey stupid! You don't have a compass!"

Title: Re: Roulette systems don't work
Post by: Real on June 20, 2016, 11:14:54 AM
Kav,

How helpful is it to sell a system or systems that YOU know don't work?
Title: Re: Roulette systems don't work
Post by: kav on June 20, 2016, 11:32:07 AM
Real,

Look here (http://forum.roulette30.com/index.php?topic=41.msg13581#msg13581) and here (http://forum.roulette30.com/index.php?topic=41.msg13584#msg13584) first.
Oh and here (http://forum.roulette30.com/index.php?topic=977.msg13480#msg13480).

Better luck next time you try to troll :-)
Title: Re: Roulette systems don't work
Post by: RouletteGhost on June 20, 2016, 01:27:44 PM
A little piece of me actually feels sorry for the guy

He doesn't understand that people get a thrill out of strategies

Bayes was 100000% on point

He is reduced to going on all forums to state systems don't work

I do feel a little sorry because its obvious he has nothing better to do

I have won more then i have lost with systems but he would still say it is meaningless. Sad
Title: Re: Roulette systems don't work
Post by: kav on June 20, 2016, 03:06:05 PM
Reyth,

I was confused as well.
But I think these pictures are default avatars to our forum so anyone can use it.
Title: Re: Roulette systems don't work
Post by: Reyth on June 20, 2016, 04:07:33 PM
Oh wow, I didn't know we had default avatars lol! >.<
Title: Re: Roulette systems don't work
Post by: mr j on June 20, 2016, 05:12:54 PM
It's kind of funny to imply that most of the people here aren't interested in making money.  :)

That's not what I said, as you well know. I said it's not the *only* criteria. I think many system players are aware that what they're doing is mathematically impossible, but still try, for the reasons I gave above.

Quote
I agree with Real regarding this subject, 100%

So Ken, you've gone over to the "dark side" now?

Systems don't work?  :)

I try and see both sides. Those that know me, at least give me that much. I get stuck in the middle quite a bit on the boards (kinda like at RF). Real might dislike me for this or the system guys might dislike me for this.

Meaning.....(I'm terrible at wording), I play a SMALL number of methods. Right off the bat, I could be the bad guy (lol). However, how I play is *NOTHING* even remotely close to 98% of the goofs at RF/VLS, that I can promise you. My method(s) is quite complex but MUST BE EASY enough for quick chip placement at a REAL casino.

2-4 numbers, no fu***n trot, no progression, no RNG etc. It revolves around hot (at the time) numbers.

Knowing when to bet, how many numbers (max), when to stop betting, never a HG etc. Nothing is hot, nothing is hot, nothing is hot?......when to EASE back to maybe betting 1-2 numbers max until things pick up. It took YEARS of trial & error and I am very happy with it. So, am I in the same crowd with the RF guys?

Yes and no I guess. I dont EVER want to be lumped into that same CREW of denial goofs over there. Some good hearted guys at RF I do admit but thinking outside the box is NOT one of their strong suits, sorry.

Ken
Title: Re: Roulette systems don't work
Post by: mr j on June 20, 2016, 05:24:53 PM
In regards to Real, thats a tough one as well. Is he CORRECT most of the time, even against me? Yes he is but I at least have the nuts to say it. Did he bug the s**t out of me years ago (lol)? Yes again. Him and I "kind of" leave each other alone for now. You have to realize one thing about him, regardless if you like him or not.

He REALLY KNOWS HIS S**T, I have to give credit where its due. Should he always be correcting everyone? Probably not but I'm not his boss, he does as he pleases. There are maybe FIVE guys at RF that I'm impressed with....FIVE !!

Ken

(ps >> dont waste your time with GUT or KTF (or the cousin). Thats Kenny's free tip of the day, your welcome)
Title: Re: Roulette systems don't work
Post by: kav on June 20, 2016, 07:03:14 PM
In regards to Real, thats a tough one as well. Is he CORRECT most of the time, even against me? Yes he is but I at least have the nuts to say it.
Ken,
In order for someone to be correct he must say something that can be falsified. Real never says anything more than just telling everyone else they are wrong.

Furthermore since he repeats "no system can win", he effectively says you are lying when you claim that you win with a system - whatever the system. You can't have it both ways my friend: Either Real is correct or you.
We read a lot on nonsense in these forums, but at least some basic rules of logic should still apply.
Title: Re: Roulette systems don't work
Post by: dobbelsteen on June 20, 2016, 07:13:58 PM
The player who uses SSB as a compass has a chance of 2^20 he will not arrive in Moscoc.

SSB is not a fast train from Amsterdam to Moscow, but without a train manual and a guide you can lose one`s way
Title: Re: Roulette systems don't work
Post by: mr j on June 20, 2016, 10:06:17 PM
In regards to Real, thats a tough one as well. Is he CORRECT most of the time, even against me? Yes he is but I at least have the nuts to say it.
Ken,
In order for someone to be correct he must say something that can be falsified. Real never says anything more than just telling everyone else they are wrong.

Furthermore since he repeats "no system can win", he effectively says you are lying when you claim that you win with a system - whatever the system. You can't have it both ways my friend: Either Real is correct or you.
We read a lot on nonsense in these forums, but at least some basic rules of logic should still apply.

I thought I pretty much covered all of this in my two posts? I understand the goal....for myself and Real to argue against each other?

As I said, say what you will against methods, all I please ask is to NOT put me in the same group with the RF guys. Please give me that much (lol).

Ken
Title: Re: Roulette systems don't work
Post by: mogul397 on June 21, 2016, 12:49:21 AM
Attempting to beat the random game of roulette by designing systems based on the layout is as absurd as trying to break into a computer by smashing the monitor.
Real,
Of your 950 posts, the 900 are the same post with different wordings: "roulette systems don't work". So every new post with the same content you make will be posted here and move this topic to the top. Eventually we will have a mega-thread with hundreds of posts with the same message.

I'm sorry that this forum is (also) about roulette systems.
I'm sure that in the other "advantage play" forums you participate, you share the real methods to become rich by "playing the wheel". I am very happy for your success and I really wonder why not everyone follows your overly successful methods.

Looks like it's time to "get real".

And the rest of the other people's 900 posts all say things about "play this
way and win".

So they have something in common. Just opposite.
Title: Re: Roulette systems don't work
Post by: Reyth on June 21, 2016, 01:04:38 AM
Attempting to beat the random game of roulette by designing systems based on the layout is as absurd as trying to break into a computer by smashing the monitor.
Real,
Of your 950 posts, the 900 are the same post with different wordings: "roulette systems don't work". So every new post with the same content you make will be posted here and move this topic to the top. Eventually we will have a mega-thread with hundreds of posts with the same message.

I'm sorry that this forum is (also) about roulette systems.
I'm sure that in the other "advantage play" forums you participate, you share the real methods to become rich by "playing the wheel". I am very happy for your success and I really wonder why not everyone follows your overly successful methods.

Looks like it's time to "get real".

And the rest of the other people's 900 posts all say things about "play this
way and win".

So they have something in common. Just opposite.

Pardon me, but most posts I see describe how to play a system and why.  I don't ever (very rarely) see a person posting their system over and over everywhere repeating themselves ad nauseum to the point of hijacking every thread in sight and demanding that their system is 100% infallible HG and allowing no arguments.

There is no defense for Real's behavior in this forum. 
Title: Re: Roulette systems don't work
Post by: RouletteGhost on June 21, 2016, 02:04:04 AM

There is no defense for Real's behavior in this forum.

Theres no defense for his behavior on any forum

Its obviously for some self gratification. Maybe abused at some point in life?

No respect for those that enjoy creating or testing strategies

Just a spit on their face. Not to mention annoying

Its like me going to a chess club where people play for fun and say your all wrong you must play this way and if you do not its meaningless.

Because lets face it. When someone wins using a system. He says its meaningless.

The absolute best tool to combat real xander caleb whatever he is would be to simply ignore him

If everyone collectively ignored him 100% he would eventually either go away or try another alias.

The whole idea of starting threads that systems do not work and hijacking threads just screams "I WANT ATTENTION"

Poor guy
Title: Re: Roulette systems don't work
Post by: mr j on June 21, 2016, 03:05:15 AM
You'll never win with dozens/columns, sorry.

Ken
Title: Re: Roulette systems don't work
Post by: mr j on June 21, 2016, 03:11:08 AM
So lets say he (Real) never posted again. Would you agree or disagree, an ego or two may be inflated by NOT being reminded, you wont win long term.

Point being, if he never posts again, your outcomes will not change. You may feel better, all warm and fuzzy on the inside but the overall methods on these forums are only two levels better than a Marty being played on a hot June day. Big fu***n deal.

Ken
Title: Re: Roulette systems don't work
Post by: mr j on June 21, 2016, 03:31:11 AM
(https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/236x/f9/4e/8a/f94e8a1ed53cb81c1b75d8a6bb7e06d5.jpg)
Title: Re: Roulette systems don't work
Post by: Reyth on June 21, 2016, 03:48:39 AM
You'll never win with dozens/columns, sorry.

Ken

They have an expected max consecutive loss of only 16 and a steep percentage curve on repeats so...
Title: Re: Roulette systems don't work
Post by: Reyth on June 21, 2016, 03:50:39 AM
So lets say he (Real) never posted again. Would you agree or disagree, an ego or two may be inflated by NOT being reminded, you wont win long term.

Point being, if he never posts again, your outcomes will not change. You may feel better, all warm and fuzzy on the inside but the overall methods on these forums are only two levels better than a Marty being played on a hot June day. Big fu***n deal.

Ken

Great so now is the time to stop being a spectator and contribute.  Constructive users like Pales, Harry, Scepticus, Dobble, Ignatus, Jesper, Blue, etc give constructive ideas full of ACTUAL CONTENT.  Thanks!
Title: Re: Roulette systems don't work
Post by: spins on June 21, 2016, 03:53:55 AM
this is kinda go with the flow, bet on dozen that just came up with the one above it, 1-2, 2-3, 3-1, bets of 1-1, 2-2, 6-6, and so on, just thought I would share this with all the other simple minded system players on here, something to mull over and test 
Title: Re: Roulette systems don't work
Post by: mr j on June 21, 2016, 04:58:51 PM
So lets say he (Real) never posted again. Would you agree or disagree, an ego or two may be inflated by NOT being reminded, you wont win long term.

Point being, if he never posts again, your outcomes will not change. You may feel better, all warm and fuzzy on the inside but the overall methods on these forums are only two levels better than a Marty being played on a hot June day. Big fu***n deal.

Ken

Great so now is the time to stop being a spectator and contribute.  Constructive users like Pales, Harry, Scepticus, Dobble, Ignatus, Jesper, Blue, etc give constructive ideas full of ACTUAL CONTENT.  Thanks!

Do they put in the time? Yes. With lots of hope and ideas? Yes.

......the ending will be the same *OR* it'll make a profit in non-desirable casino conditions which by my definition, you failed.

Ken
Title: Re: Roulette systems don't work
Post by: kav on June 21, 2016, 06:04:57 PM
......the ending will be the same *OR* it'll make a profit in non-desirable casino conditions which by my definition, you failed.

Ken

So your stance is: "All systems fail, except mine" , right?
And when Real says "all system fail" he doesn't mean yours, right?

IF you really think like that, please get down off your high horse.
None got really hurt by being a bit humble.
Title: Re: Roulette systems don't work
Post by: mr j on June 21, 2016, 07:11:35 PM
Again, I dont understand the obsession to get myself and Real to argue with each other?

All methods are not exactly the same (Real will disagree, no biggie).

I'm trying to be as polite as possible here (lol)

Does Ken win everyday? Of course not, no person does but the current *STUPID* *STUPID* ideas that are floating around these days on various boards are a JOKE.....A HUGE JOKE and nothing more. This stuff I read is what I started out with 15 years ago. Its a huge dead end!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I see that, Real sees that.....98% of the goofs do NOT see that. Do I care? Not even a little. As a matter of fact, I get a good laugh from it. Most of the people here are 6-8 years behind schedule.

Meaning, they have around 6-8 MORE YEARS of this silliness before they seriously start to ELIMINATE what does NOT work...or...if denial is extra nice to them, it may take longer.

Ken
Title: Re: Roulette systems don't work
Post by: scepticus on June 21, 2016, 07:22:29 PM
Again, I dont understand the obsession to get myself and Real to argue with each other?

All methods are not exactly the same (Real will disagree, no biggie).

I'm trying to be as polite as possible here (lol)

Does Ken win everyday? Of course not, no person does but the current *STUPID* *STUPID* ideas that are floating around these days on various boards are a JOKE.....A HUGE JOKE and nothing more. This stuff I read is what I started out with 15 years ago. Its a huge dead end!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I see that, Real sees that.....98% of the goofs do NOT see that. Do I care? Not even a little. As a matter of fact, I get a good laugh from it. Most of the people here are 6-8 years behind schedule.

Meaning, they have around 6-8 MORE YEARS of this silliness before they seriously start to ELIMINATE what does NOT work...or...if denial is extra nice to them, it may take longer.

Ken
Ken
So why don't you give us the benefit of your expertise. So far as I can see few of us agree with each other in this forum. A forum is for discussion so if you are only here to criticise why bother ?
Title: Re: Roulette systems don't work
Post by: Bebediktus on June 21, 2016, 07:31:27 PM
Quote
Does Ken win everyday? Of course not, no person does
If for you is interesting i win 7-8 times from 10 . When are these 2-3 cases when i lost i usually lost   30%-120% from averidge win...
All other you can calculate himself.
Title: Re: Roulette systems don't work
Post by: kav on June 21, 2016, 07:48:07 PM
Again, I dont understand the obsession to get myself and Real to argue with each other?

It is an obsession with logic actually. You see there is a logic flaw when you are a system player who agrees with someone who dismisses system players. But who I'm I to stop you from contradicting yourself.

All methods are not exactly the same (Real will disagree, no biggie).

I'm trying to be as polite as possible here (lol)

Does Ken win everyday? Of course not, no person does but the current *STUPID* *STUPID* ideas that are floating around these days on various boards are a JOKE.....A HUGE JOKE and nothing more. This stuff I read is what I started out with 15 years ago. Its a huge dead end!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I see that, Real sees that.....98% of the goofs do NOT see that. Do I care? Not even a little. As a matter of fact, I get a good laugh from it. Most of the people here are 6-8 years behind schedule.

Meaning, they have around 6-8 MORE YEARS of this silliness before they seriously start to ELIMINATE what does NOT work...or...if denial is extra nice to them, it may take longer.
I know you are not an arrogant person with delusions of grandeur who tries to boost his ego in an internet forum by undervaluing everyone else. But you may appear as such by your posts.
Title: Re: Roulette systems don't work
Post by: mr j on June 21, 2016, 08:14:51 PM
I think I am undervaluing most others here, again, I have no problem admitting it.

I think bragging and being proud are two different things (imo). I refuse to be told I am not better than other roulette players. I know I am, no question about it but I dont feel I'm bragging. I've been through too much s**t to not be at the top.

Ken

(Sorry if you feel bad thoughts about me)
Title: Re: Roulette systems don't work
Post by: mr j on June 21, 2016, 08:23:09 PM
(https://assets.entrepreneur.com/article/1440698865_graphic-quote-estee-lauder.jpg)
Title: Re: Roulette systems don't work
Post by: RouletteGhost on June 21, 2016, 09:24:54 PM
The point about this caleb character is this:

This forum and other roulette forums have sections for discussions about roulette systems and creations

It is counter productive to the forum purpose to have someone rehash the same thing all the time

We understand that he thinks systems are pointless. But the forum is a place to discuss

If he does not like the discussion then he should leave. And that goes for anyone

Noone cares if Mr J or real thinks certain systems are garbage

We get it.

Caleb has a superiority complex.

He disagrees with strategies yet subjects himself to roulette strategy forums. It is beyond weird.

So let me get this straight. I think roulette strategies are stupid.

What should my course of action then be?

A) join a strategy forum just to state they won't work and spend time belittling people who play different then me

Or

B) be an adult and not post and move on and understand that the forum is not for me because i look for defective wheels

B of course. But we are dealing with a man that is not for sale and/or cheeky.

That is like me joining a coin collecting forum to tell people copper coins are meaningless and they should only buy silver or gold coins. But that particular person LIKES copper coins so i just belittle them because its not the coin I would collect

Mod Note: Sorry, personal attacks are disallowed on this forum.
Title: Re: Roulette systems don't work
Post by: spins on June 21, 2016, 09:48:21 PM
good point if these 1,2 possible 3 for them,have worked out the best method, which in turn should present them with a river of money the length of the nile, then why would they be wasting there time on forum's, they should be in a postion to do anything, yet they choose to go line and belittle those with different lines of thinking, this doesn't add up, even I know this being a dumb system thinker     
Title: Re: Roulette systems don't work
Post by: spins on June 21, 2016, 11:50:40 PM
why was my last post removed as well as, so called chase's last 2 ??             if any ones interested in what just occurred I can rewrite, or message 
Title: Re: Roulette systems don't work
Post by: scepticus on June 22, 2016, 12:19:47 AM
You'll never win with dozens/columns, sorry.

Ken
Never say " Never " ken
Title: Re: Roulette systems don't work
Post by: kav on June 22, 2016, 12:36:55 AM
You'll never win with dozens/columns, sorry.
Ken
Well, how about telling us how to win instead?
Title: Re: Roulette systems don't work
Post by: mr j on June 22, 2016, 12:56:30 AM
You'll never win with dozens/columns, sorry.
Ken
Well, how about telling us how to win instead?

How about I simply tell you what will not work? (as I have done at least 50 times).

Ken
Title: Re: Roulette systems don't work
Post by: mr j on June 22, 2016, 01:10:01 AM
This is not a rip on the guy, just an observation. The *MORE* stupid system threads that pop up on his forum, the better SALES are (imo).

Almost ALL of those systems are complete GARBAGE. Most there dont have the NUTS to admit it and thats fine.

Point being, if you are newer with this game and RECOGNIZE the trash systems, what might be your NEXT step?

Yep, to purchase something. If an *ACTUAL* (close as possible) holy grail ever was posted there, I think big changes would HAVE TO take place. SALES would drop etc.

I think Steve has the right idea (that is a compliment). Putting SALES smack in the middle of garbage systems, quite smart.

Ken
Title: Re: Roulette systems don't work
Post by: Reyth on June 22, 2016, 01:16:34 AM
The above stated theory sounds nice, as a theory, but does anyone think this is a practical reality?

I mean c'mon, I just can't imagine some evil mastermind type person rubbing his hands together plotting to plunder the roulette gambling world of its riches by alllowing and promoting shoddy systems?  I mean, C'MON! LOL.

(http://file.mobilmusic.ru/2d/dd/0d/721180.gif)
Title: Re: Roulette systems don't work
Post by: mr j on June 22, 2016, 01:43:52 AM
Lets say his board was jammed full of GREAT systems....big time money makers!!!!!!

.....and playable at B&M casinos (rofl). Would you say SALES would be about the same, less or more?

Ken
Title: Re: Roulette systems don't work
Post by: mr j on June 22, 2016, 01:47:00 AM
So now my thread is over here?

Ken
Title: Re: Roulette systems don't work
Post by: mr j on June 22, 2016, 01:48:11 AM
Is that to KILL OFF the thread title? (lol)

Ken
Title: Re: Roulette systems don't work
Post by: mr j on June 22, 2016, 01:55:17 AM
Meaning....."Steve H. must be happy as hell"......belongs under the Roulette Systems section? Please dont tell me this board is RUN just like the "others"?

Ken

Title: Re: Roulette systems don't work
Post by: mr j on June 22, 2016, 02:06:34 AM
(http://s.quickmeme.com/img/58/58501d5f9aabccfd2847f6c7905f3f9419da8ca56b5f40fc72ae86ee558b824a.jpg)
Title: Re: Roulette systems don't work
Post by: Reyth on June 22, 2016, 02:08:42 AM
Well, just my observation Captain but it appears Kav is trying a new method of isolating formulaic posts which lack specific roulette playing content.

(https://media.giphy.com/media/vp122eOzO0Hxm/giphy.gif)
Title: Re: Roulette systems don't work
Post by: mr j on June 22, 2016, 02:13:14 AM
Other topics (not related to casino or roulette) (http://forum.roulette30.com/index.php?board=6.0) <<< It WAS in this section. Thats as close as "lack specific roulette playing content" as one can get. I'm confused, then eliminate the section.

Ken
Title: Re: Roulette systems don't work
Post by: mr j on June 22, 2016, 02:15:22 AM
Hey Reyth, you sure do remind me of someone I know. User names can change (I never understood it) but CONTENT seldom does.

Ken
Title: Re: Roulette systems don't work
Post by: spins on June 22, 2016, 02:21:49 AM
strange stit going on and off this thread chase's posts get deleted who ever the hell he is, he had never posted before, but stepped in as if owned the place ?, apparently he is close friend of reals and gets paid for finding bias wheels and posted that this forum was run by system sellers, he bummed up mr j and agreed that all system are bs. As far as buying systems who in there right mind would bother, there is that much information online to suggest they don't work, coupled by endless pages of indepth calculations by reyth and others, you only need little math and common sense to know if you can't work it well there's no way they can   
Title: Re: Roulette systems don't work
Post by: kav on June 22, 2016, 02:21:53 AM
Lets say his board was jammed full of GREAT systems....big time money makers!!!!!!
Ken
Winning at roulette is always a struggle. Like every money making endeavor. There are no big money makers. I'm sorry that after all these years you don't seem to fully understand what a good roulette strategy is all about: RISK management (http://www.roulette30.com/p/is-it-possible-to-beat-roulette.html).
I wrote the above post 6 years ago.
Are you still searching (let alone have found) the big time money maker?

Title: Re: Roulette systems don't work
Post by: Reyth on June 22, 2016, 02:22:24 AM
Well Mr. J, when it comes to the roulette world, I am quite the newb compared to vets like yourself.

As far as the location of your post, it would seem to me that if it is forumlaic along the lines of "systems don't work" and such variations, that will override the specific location of the post.
Title: Re: Roulette systems don't work
Post by: Reyth on June 22, 2016, 02:24:37 AM
strange stit going on and off this thread chase's posts get deleted who ever the hell he is, he had never posted before, but stepped in as if owned the place ?, apparently he is close friend of reals and gets paid for finding bias wheels and posted that this forum was run by system sellers, he bummed up mr j and agreed that all system are bs. As far as buying systems who in there right mind would bother, there is that much information online to suggest they don't work, coupled by endless pages of indepth calculations by reyth and others, you only need little math and common sense to know if you can't work it well there's no way they can

I never saw those posts but apparently they were of such a SPAM-like nature that they required and deserved outright deletion.
Title: Re: Roulette systems don't work
Post by: mr j on June 22, 2016, 02:26:07 AM
Well Mr. J, when it comes to the roulette world, I am quite the newb compared to vets like yourself.

As far as the location of your post, it would seem to me that if it is forumlaic along the lines of "systems don't work" and such variations, that will override the specific location of the post.

I think the TITLE is whats more important. The TITLE has now been swept away, like I'm dumb or something.

Ken
Title: Re: Roulette systems don't work
Post by: mr j on June 22, 2016, 02:28:51 AM
strange stit going on and off this thread chase's posts get deleted who ever the hell he is, he had never posted before, but stepped in as if owned the place ?, apparently he is close friend of reals and gets paid for finding bias wheels and posted that this forum was run by system sellers, he bummed up mr j and agreed that all system are bs. As far as buying systems who in there right mind would bother, there is that much information online to suggest they don't work, coupled by endless pages of indepth calculations by reyth and others, you only need little math and common sense to know if you can't work it well there's no way they can

I never saw those posts but apparently they were of such a SPAM-like nature that they required and deserved outright deletion.

I read those last two SHORT posts. I even did a "like" on one of them. There was NOTHING regarding sales, spam, foul language etc.

Once again, I know whats what....been doing this for too many years. Everything is a constant fu***n battle on boards. It gets so damn old, fast.

Ken
Title: Re: Roulette systems don't work
Post by: kav on June 22, 2016, 02:31:33 AM
Well Mr. J, when it comes to the roulette world, I am quite the newb compared to vets like yourself.

As far as the location of your post, it would seem to me that if it is forumlaic along the lines of "systems don't work" and such variations, that will override the specific location of the post.

I think the TITLE is whats more important. The TITLE has now been swept away, like I'm dumb or something.

Ken

The title in the original posts remain.
Every time you post, you can edit the title.

The point is we can't transform this forum to a bashing systems forum. We believe there is such a thing called "roulette strategy". Otherwise there is nothing to discuss.
If you feel frustrated by roulette systems and believe they are useless, please vent your frustration in this thread. It is a system bashing thread, soon to be a mega-thread probably.
Title: Re: Roulette systems don't work
Post by: mr j on June 22, 2016, 02:32:52 AM
Lets say his board was jammed full of GREAT systems....big time money makers!!!!!!
Ken
Winning at roulette is always a struggle. Like every money making endeavor. There are no big money makers. I'm sorry that after all these years you don't seem to fully understand what a good roulette strategy is all about: RISK management (http://www.roulette30.com/p/is-it-possible-to-beat-roulette.html).
I wrote the above post 6 years ago.
Are you still searching (let alone have found) the big time money maker?


Searching? (lol) The only thing I have been searching for as of late, is my damn rake which I could of sworn I left in the yard, next to my apple tree. (Will have to get a new one I suppose). BTW...you didn't answer my question. Another thing Kav, I would run circles around you at the casino. On-line? You got me beat there.

Ken
Title: Re: Roulette systems don't work
Post by: mr j on June 22, 2016, 02:37:35 AM
Well Mr. J, when it comes to the roulette world, I am quite the newb compared to vets like yourself.

As far as the location of your post, it would seem to me that if it is forumlaic along the lines of "systems don't work" and such variations, that will override the specific location of the post.

I think the TITLE is whats more important. The TITLE has now been swept away, like I'm dumb or something.

Ken

The title in the original posts remain.
Every time you post, you can edit the title.

True but can someone find (if looking) for my ORIGINAL thread title and/or may be responding on the current thread title and not know TWO different threads have been gelled together?

EXAMPLE being >> the other thread regarding who will be the next president. It has NOTHING to do with roulette systems, correct? You could combine it together with the thread we are on now, correct?

Ken

Title: Re: Roulette systems don't work
Post by: spins on June 22, 2016, 02:39:41 AM
seems chase/.....  didn't think it through, thought he was a clever dick but got called out within seconds, there's is a lot of alias bs on here-- must agree mr j--   funny when the forum goes a bit quite some dumb ass join's to generate interest   
Title: Re: Roulette systems don't work
Post by: spins on June 22, 2016, 03:21:03 AM
just play dead and they should go away
Title: Re: Roulette systems don't work
Post by: Bayes on June 22, 2016, 07:50:36 AM
At least Real is consistent, although he doesn't like to mention that those who have seen the error of their ways (Ken, Turbo, for example) are betting the right way for the wrong reasons.  ;)
Title: Re: Roulette systems don't work
Post by: dobbelsteen on June 22, 2016, 08:51:54 AM
Systems don`t work on the rong run. The long run for the different systems are not the same, For simple EC systems the long run start about 150 spins.
SSB is based on an event that happens once on 2^20. The long run is millions long.
Till now nobody has the courage to analise SSB.Nobody takes the challenge to improve SSB
Ken  the excel program is free available
Title: Re: Roulette systems don't work
Post by: Bayes on June 22, 2016, 10:25:54 AM
Till now nobody has the courage to analise SSB.Nobody takes the challenge to improve SSB
Ken  the excel program is free available

dobblesteen,

Is this SSB you keep mentioning explained on this forum? Where can I find it?

Quote
SSB is based on an event that happens once on 2^20

It sounds like it could be a Martingale. Am I right?
Title: Re: Roulette systems don't work
Post by: dobbelsteen on June 22, 2016, 12:17:24 PM
Bayes. The SSB system, I have develloped about 30 years ago and publiced.
On our forum and in my blog you can find more explanations of the system. I have also demonstrated on internet with a power point presentation.
It is a Martingale bet system and particular suitable for ECs
If you mail to rouletteplayersclub@hotmail.nl and I send you the Excel program
Title: Re: Roulette systems don't work
Post by: scepticus on June 22, 2016, 01:15:28 PM
Systems don`t work on the rong run. The long run for the different systems are not the same, For simple EC systems the long run start about 150 spins.
SSB is based on an event that happens once on 2^20. The long run is millions long.
Till now nobody has the courage to analise SSB.Nobody takes the challenge to improve SSB
Ken  the excel program is free available

If the long run for simple EC systems start  about 150 spins,Dobbelsteen , then when betting my EC method I actually win in your  version of the Long Run  . So , thanks for the confirmation  .

Title: Re: Roulette systems don't work
Post by: scepticus on June 22, 2016, 01:26:20 PM
strange stit going on and off this thread chase's posts get deleted who ever the hell he is, he had never posted before, but stepped in as if owned the place ?, apparently he is close friend of reals and gets paid for finding bias wheels and posted that this forum was run by system sellers, he bummed up mr j and agreed that all system are bs. As far as buying systems who in there right mind would bother, there is that much information online to suggest they don't work, coupled by endless pages of indepth calculations by reyth and others, you only need little math and common sense to know if you can't work it well there's no way they can

I never saw those posts but apparently they were of such a SPAM-like nature that they required and deserved outright deletion.

I read those last two SHORT posts. I even did a "like" on one of them. There was NOTHING regarding sales, spam, foul language etc.

Once again, I know whats what....been doing this for too many years. Everything is a constant fu***n battle on boards. It gets so damn old, fast.

Ken

The word is not fu***n, Ken, it is effing !
Title: Re: Roulette systems don't work
Post by: Bayes on June 22, 2016, 01:51:27 PM
It is a Martingale bet system and particular suitable for ECs

Thanks dobble, but I think I'll pass. I don't have the constitution required for that kind of gambling. And I don't see how the chance of losing can be 220 unless you're using a 20 step marty, which is way beyond house limits.
Title: Re: Roulette systems don't work
Post by: dobbelsteen on June 22, 2016, 02:25:06 PM
SSB is indeed a Martingale system but not a 20 step progression but a 10 step progression. I use a 10 step progression because on the Dutch tables the table limit is 10 times double up.
The trigger is a random sequence of 10 random numbers.
You reach the table limit by a 20 number sequence.
I have thesystem programmed for high and low.
The system bust after 20 low or 20high numbers. The LaPartage rule is a very important advantage for this system.
I never claimed the system as a HG or a winning system.
Without study SSB you cannot make conclusions.
Title: Re: Roulette systems don't work
Post by: dobbelsteen on June 23, 2016, 08:57:57 AM
Bayes  in my blog I have elaborated your 2/3 theory  for SSB in a n Excel sheet. Sudy the sheet and you learn alot about SSB

Scepticus the long run  depends also on the kind of the system and the probabilities of the trigger
Title: Re: Roulette systems don't work
Post by: scepticus on June 23, 2016, 10:08:42 AM
Bayes  in my blog I have elaborated your 2/3 theory  for SSB in a n Excel sheet. Sudy the sheet and you learn alot about SSB

Scepticus the long run  depends also on the kind of the system and the probabilities of the trigger
So how do you calculate that 150 spins constitutes "The Long Run" for Even Chances ?
Title: Re: Roulette systems don't work
Post by: Jesper on June 23, 2016, 11:46:59 AM
Bayes  in my blog I have elaborated your 2/3 theory  for SSB in a n Excel sheet. Sudy the sheet and you learn alot about SSB

Scepticus the long run  depends also on the kind of the system and the probabilities of the trigger
So how do you calculate that 150 spins constitutes "The Long Run" for Even Chances ?

The long run in the sense of 150 of an EC is that an large imbalance is rare. We can win be plus after 1 million spins at a noz the odds is very close to 50% flat betting.  The odds to lose 20 times in a row is the same as one color on a noz comes up 20 times, regardless how we select the colors each bet.
Title: Re: Roulette systems don't work
Post by: Real on June 23, 2016, 12:02:25 PM
SSB sounds like more Martingale nonsense.

Quote
The point about this caleb character is this:

This forum and other roulette forums have sections for discussions about roulette systems and creations

It is counter productive to the forum purpose to have someone rehash the same thing all the time

We understand that he thinks systems are pointless. But the forum is a place to discuss...blaw blaw..

RouletteGhost,

What is your obsession with me?  You act as though your some kind of jilted former lover.  It's kind of weird.  I see you've made several posts directed towards me, even though I ignore you.

I thought you had some laminate flooring to install or something in that new shack of yours down by the river ;) ? 
Title: Re: Roulette systems don't work
Post by: Jesper on June 23, 2016, 12:17:42 PM
Real, in a way. You should know system players can win, and do. AP-players face the same.   I know (it is a few) playing ap(e) methods (allways on a BM casino), they win if they are lucky, if they lose they blame the wheel being difficult. There are easy tables and hard ones, like a pattern players (voodoo?) players use the solution is change table, much in common with ap(e).
Title: Re: Roulette systems don't work
Post by: dobbelsteen on June 23, 2016, 12:28:12 PM
Scepticus compute the ratio number Passe fgures/ number of Manque fgures. When the ratio is continuous close to 1
the long starts

(http://i64.tinypic.com/2lnhg2c.jpg)
Title: Re: Roulette systems don't work
Post by: Real on June 23, 2016, 12:28:57 PM
Quote
Real, in a way. You should know system players can win, and do. AP-players face the same.   I know (it is a few) playing ap(e) methods (allways on a BM casino), they win if they are lucky, if they lose they blame the wheel being difficult. There are easy tables and hard ones, like a pattern players (voodoo?) players use the solution is change table, much in common with ap(e).

Jesper,

I appreciate what you're attempting to say, but you're simply not comparing apples to apples.  You can't compare AP play to system play.  One has the edge, the other relies on luck.

@Dobbelsteen,

Your graph doesn't mean anything.
Title: Re: Roulette systems don't work
Post by: Jesper on June 23, 2016, 12:42:34 PM

Real, in a way. You should know system players can win, and do. AP-players face the same.   I know (it is a few) playing ap(e) methods (allways on a BM casino), they win if they are lucky, if they lose they blame the wheel being difficult. There are easy tables and hard ones, like a pattern players (voodoo?) players use the solution is change table, much in common with ap(e).

Jesper,

I appreciate what you're attempting to say, but you're simply not comparing apples to apples.  You can't compare AP play to system play.  One has the edge, the other relies on luck.

You do not have an egde, a brain spoke, similar to some systemplayers. No physical edge exist in a modern casinos. It is as difficult for you to understand it as for system players as Ken.
Title: Re: Roulette systems don't work
Post by: Real on June 23, 2016, 12:44:04 PM
Jesper,

Highlight your text, and then click on the "A" button and it will resize everything and make it show better. :)
Title: Re: Roulette systems don't work
Post by: Real on June 23, 2016, 12:45:58 PM
Quote
Your way depends on luck (Luck is not bad), as well as System players. Physical bias? In which country you find it today?-Jesper


Yes, biased wheels exist these days. In the USA.  These days I'm more into VB. 
Title: Re: Roulette systems don't work
Post by: scepticus on June 23, 2016, 12:50:21 PM
Scepticus compute the ratio number Passe fgures/ number of Manque fgures. When the ratio is continuous close to 1
the long starts

(http://i64.tinypic.com/2lnhg2c.jpg)
That is mere speculation on your part, Dobbelsteen.
I asked you for proof that the Long Run for Even Chances is 150 spins.
And what do the letters SSB stand for ?
 
Title: Re: Roulette systems don't work
Post by: Jesper on June 23, 2016, 12:52:12 PM
It is some problem in this forum, suddenly the text need microscope to be readable, so the way is to not answer fast, so the poster can repare it. (Some thinks all the world is native  English, and know one language, we  other need to ruffly at least handle  five). English is my third.
Title: Re: Roulette systems don't work
Post by: Janusz on June 23, 2016, 12:59:47 PM
Caleb, Real, snowman, herb or whatever kind of identity you´re in:

What is your obsession with me?  You act as though your some kind of jilted former lover.  It's kind of weird.  I see you've made several posts directed towards me, even though I ignore you.


A nice piece of Selfanalysis.  ;D ;D

winkel

Title: Re: Roulette systems don't work
Post by: Real on June 23, 2016, 01:05:14 PM
Jesper,

Compare luck (variance)  verses having the edge by using the crude simplified formulas below.  Input various spin amounts into the underlined portion.  Try using 50, 200, 500, 2000, and 10000 spins.   

1. Luck = (+ or - ) 3 x the square root of the number of spins played

verses

2. The edge = 20% x the number of spins played.

It's not uncommon for visual ballistic wheel watcher players to have edges in the 20% range, so I chose to use it in the example above.

Yes, variance is a part of every play, but after you input the various spin amounts into the crude formulas, you'll find that in advantage play variance is NOT that big of factor.  The edge gradually dominates variance (luck) the longer the AP player chooses to play.

 However, the ordinary gambler experiences the opposite effect.  The longer he plays, the more likely he is to lose because of the house edge, and to forever remain a loser, never to break even again. 

-Really!
Title: Re: Roulette systems don't work
Post by: RouletteGhost on June 23, 2016, 02:27:28 PM
I don't know what he tries to achieve.

Being on a forum to tell everyone it does not work.

Boring life. Wasting his time.

My guess is he is bored and likes getting a rise from people

I have said it before and i will say it again

If everyone collectively ignored him his posts would get lost in the threads. And mods should delete his threads. For being counter productive

Ignoring is a powerful thing

Noone cares that he says systems don't work

Some people enjoy the hobby of being creative

People who like roulette and like thinking of ways to play instead of placing random bets

Its none of his business how people play

He just likes the rise

If i enjoy roulette and bet on red when the wind blows west well thats my business

For most it is a fun hobby. People enjoy the atmosphere. And just like making strategies

 8)

Believe me when i say this: we do not need some over zealous condescending person breaking down for us that the math is not beatable. Most of us don't seek to beat the math just different angles of play.
Title: Re: Roulette systems don't work
Post by: Harryj on June 23, 2016, 06:28:27 PM
   In previous posts Dobbel has said that SSB stands for Shoe Shine Boy ! I have no idea of the how or where of this name. You will have to ask Dobbel.

     While it is true that the math of probability is unbeatable in the long run. It is not carved in stone. It allows for variations and approximations. I believe that other math systems can be used to take advantage of this fact.

     Harry
Title: Re: Roulette systems don't work
Post by: Real on June 23, 2016, 07:59:07 PM

Quote
If everyone collectively ignored him his posts would get lost in the threads. -RouletteGhost

RouletteGhost,

Good idea, you should set the example, instead of following me around as though you've been scorned and jilted. 

(http://cdn.moviestillsdb.com/sm/589d4dd0c9ea62bccaa9dd87c4c13b15/the-birdcage.jpg)
Title: Re: Roulette systems don't work
Post by: RouletteGhost on June 23, 2016, 08:39:13 PM
You don't like systems

So instead of being vocal about it with a superiority complex why dont you go get a life?

Plant a tree?

Or spend your whole life trolling roulette forums preaching to people who don't care what you have to say

Give it up

Noone is going to stop creating systems if they enjoy roulette as a hobby. Its fun. I enjoy it as do the people on the forums. Thats why we are on the forums. A little education for you: online discussion forums is where enthusiasts get together for a particular topic. On occasion someone like you comes along and disrupts forums. Its the law of internet forums. Not everyone is interested in biased wheels

And its not laminate its hardwood holmes.

Get a life!!

Bet selection dot cc made the right call with you. Threw you in the troll can
Title: Re: Roulette systems don't work
Post by: Real on June 23, 2016, 09:24:03 PM
(http://images3.cinema.de/imedia/2799/2002799,MqveFMRzikFV7Hc_8n63Uc1ipmVb1vLp9msrFhS3XaFwpWgi6UYEvgJgPeOS3+TzP7qqwCcLyODdR79920XjOw==.jpg)
Quote

And its not laminate its hardwood holmes.-RouletteGhost

RouletteGhost,

This thread isn't about you.  It's about why roulette systems don't work. We don't care about whether your floors are laminate or linoleum. If you're going to post, then post something constructive.  8)   For example, explain how or why systems can or can't work.  Attack the message, not the messenger.
Title: Re: Roulette systems don't work
Post by: RouletteGhost on June 23, 2016, 09:30:31 PM
(http://images3.cinema.de/imedia/2799/2002799,MqveFMRzikFV7Hc_8n63Uc1ipmVb1vLp9msrFhS3XaFwpWgi6UYEvgJgPeOS3+TzP7qqwCcLyODdR79920XjOw==.jpg)
Quote

And its not laminate its hardwood holmes.-RouletteGhost

RouletteGhost,

This thread isn't about you.  It's about why roulette systems don't work. We don't care about whether your floors are laminate or linoleum. If you're going to post, then post something constructive.  8)   For example, explain how or why systems can or can't work.  Attack the message, not the messenger.

Its amazing how you just miss the point

I don't need to state why systems can or cannot work

I create and test methods because i like roulette and find it fun to find other angles to play

Thats it

Since you do not believe in systems your presence is not required and only disrupts the forum

I repeat: we do not need an over zealous condescending know it all to tell us systems do not work

Why? Everyones definition of "does not work" is different

If i play a method and win some and lose some i might still be ahead or even. I may say it works. Where as someone else says it does not

Its all personal preference and opinion

Your opinion is not needed at all

You like to say results are meaningless. Well, to who? You? So what lol

You are a forum troll trying to find people to help you find biased wheels

Sorry we have families we work and play roulette for fun. Not packing my bags anytime soon to travel and find bad wheels

Get a life

The wizard forum has wheel bias players maybe thats better for you?

Man i wish everyone just ignored your posts

Ill start now
Title: Re: Roulette systems don't work
Post by: Reyth on June 23, 2016, 09:31:06 PM
Systems CAN work; i.e. potentially.  Therefore an absolute statement of "Systems DON'T work" is simply false.

EXAMPLE: A martingale will ALWAYS win, eventually.

Now let's see how long YOU can stay on topic because you can't go jumping about to another thread because we are just going to bring you back here to face the music.

PROTIP:  Just stop posting because you will be embarrassed.
Title: Re: Roulette systems don't work
Post by: Real on June 23, 2016, 09:34:16 PM
Reyth,

Rather than simply saying that systems can work, provide proof.  Meaning, back up your statements.  Prove that you actually grasp the subject of this thread.

Whenever I say that a system can't work, I provide supporting evidence.  Try the same.  Back up your blanket statements about a system.  Explain why system x, y, or z will work, rather than reposting the same systems over and over and over with different up as you lose progressions.

Quote
I don't need to state why systems can or cannot work

I create and test methods because i like roulette and find it fun to find other angles to play-RouletteGhost
RouletteGhost,

I don't care.  This thread isn't about you. If you need attention, then go buy a puppy.  If you'd like to participate in the discussion, then stop with the personal attacks.  Attack the message, not the messenger.

-Really
Title: Re: Roulette systems don't work
Post by: Reyth on June 23, 2016, 09:35:04 PM
Rather than simply saying that systems can work, provide proof.  Meaning, back up your statements.

Whenever I say that a system can't work, I provide supporting evidence.  Try the same.  Back up your blanket statements about a system.  Explain why system x, y, or z will work, rather than reposting the same systems over and over and over with different up as you lose progressions.

Quote from: Reyth
Systems CAN work; i.e. potentially.  Therefore an absolute statement of "Systems DON'T work" is simply false.

EXAMPLE: A martingale will ALWAYS win, eventually.

Now let's see how long YOU can stay on topic because you can't go jumping about to another thread because we are just going to bring you back here to face the music.

PROTIP:  Just stop posting because you will be embarrassed.

(http://i.makeagif.com/media/5-06-2015/lGlU_w.gif)

This will be his death thread. :D
Title: Re: Roulette systems don't work
Post by: Real on June 23, 2016, 09:40:34 PM
Reyth,

You've posted a zillion systems on this forum.  Soooo...post a system of yours that works, and then explain to us how and why it will work.  Show some math if you can.

Title: Re: Roulette systems don't work
Post by: Reyth on June 23, 2016, 09:42:11 PM
LOL.  Being deliberately obtuse will not save you here.

I already posted the system and it works.  Your argument is absurd and refuted.

Here, I'll pretend that you truly are clueless:

I bring $1M table money into my favorite casino and play the Martingale on Red.  I will win every time.
Title: Re: Roulette systems don't work
Post by: Real on June 23, 2016, 09:46:24 PM
Reyth,

You've posted a zillion systems on this forum.  Soooo...post the one that you feel works the best. 

Explain:

1. How is works.
2. Why you believe that it works...if you can.
3. If you can, show some math. (Don't worry if it's not perfectly formatted, nobody is going to pick on you if it's not.)  If possible, give us some examples.  I'll even try to help you with your proof if you'd like.  I'm here to educate, not just to pick you.

(http://crusadingwithkatie.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/Waiting.jpg)

-Really.
Title: Re: Roulette systems don't work
Post by: Reyth on June 23, 2016, 09:47:36 PM
Reyth,

You've posted a zillion systems on this forum.  Soooo...post the one that you feel works the best.  Explain how and why you believe that it works.  If you can, show some math. (Don't worry if it's not perfectly formatted, nobody is going to pick on you if it's not.)  If possible, give us some examples.

(http://crusadingwithkatie.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/Waiting.jpg)

-Really.

LOL everyone is witnessing this right?  He is stalling because he knows that logically he is beaten.  This time though he cannot stall out and start over in another thread.  He is forced to reply here or simply shut up.
Title: Re: Roulette systems don't work
Post by: Sheridan44 on June 23, 2016, 09:52:05 PM
LOL.......I love it.......this is better than cable TV ...... lmao!
Title: Re: Roulette systems don't work
Post by: Real on June 23, 2016, 09:53:38 PM
Quote
He is stalling because he knows that logically he is beaten.  This time though he cannot stall out and start over in another thread.  He is forced to reply here or simply shut up.

Reyth,

I have no idea as to what it is that you want me to reply.  Please explain and or directly ask a question.
Title: Re: Roulette systems don't work
Post by: Reyth on June 23, 2016, 09:55:20 PM

LOL.  Moar stalling?

LOL.  Being deliberately obtuse will not save you here.

I already posted the system and it works.  Your argument is absurd and refuted.

Here, I'll pretend that you truly are clueless:

I bring $1M table money into my favorite casino and play the Martingale on Red.  I will win every time.
Title: Re: Roulette systems don't work
Post by: Real on June 23, 2016, 09:55:54 PM
Where's your question?

Quote
I bring $1M table money into my favorite casino and play the Martingale on Red.  I will win every time.

You win until you don't.  In other words, until you hit the losing run.  There isn't enough money in the world to guarantee that you will always win.  Furthermore there's a max table bet.  But look, don't take my word for it.  I'd be happy to bury you in proof from others/ mathematicians/ experts... if you'd like me to provide it.

A martingale is any of a class of betting strategies that originated from and were popular in 18th century France. The simplest of these strategies was designed for a game in which the gambler wins his stake if a coin comes up heads and loses it if the coin comes up tails. The strategy had the gambler double his bet after every loss, so that the first win would recover all previous losses plus win a profit equal to the original stake. The martingale strategy has been applied to roulette as well, as the probability of hitting either red or black is close to 50%.
Since a gambler with infinite wealth will, almost surely, eventually flip heads, the martingale betting strategy was seen as a sure thing by those who advocated it. Of course, none of the gamblers in fact possessed infinite wealth, and the exponential growth of the bets would eventually bankrupt "unlucky" gamblers who chose to use the martingale. The gambler usually wins a small net reward, thus appearing to have a sound strategy. However, the gambler's expected value does indeed remain zero (or less than zero) because the small probability that he will suffer a catastrophic loss exactly balances with his expected gain. (In a casino, the expected value is negative, due to the house's edge.) The likelihood of catastrophic loss may not even be very small. The bet size rises exponentially. This, combined with the fact that strings of consecutive losses actually occur more often than common intuition suggests, can bankrupt a gambler quickly.
Intuitive analysis[edit]Assuming that the win/loss outcomes of each bet are independent and identically distributed random variables, the stopping time has finite expected value.[citation needed] This justifies the following argument, explaining why the betting system fails: Since expectation is linear, the expected value of a series of bets is just the sum of the expected value of each bet.[dubious – discuss] Since in such games of chance the bets are independent, the expectation of each bet does not depend on whether you previously won or lost. In most casino games, the expected value of any individual bet is negative, so the sum of lots of negative numbers is also always going to be negative.
The martingale strategy fails even with unbounded stopping time, as long as there is a limit on earnings or on the bets (which is also true in practice).[1] It is only with unbounded wealth, bets and time that it could be argued that the martingale becomes a winning strategy, except that you cannot increase unbounded wealth.Mathematical analysis[edit]One round of the idealized martingale without time or credit constraints can be formulated mathematically as follows. Let the coin tosses be represented by a sequence X0, X1, … of independent random variables, each of which is equal to H with probability p, and Twith probability q = 1 – p. Let N be time of appearance of the first H; in other words, X0, X1, …, XN–1 = T, and XN = H. If the coin never shows H, we write N = ?. N is itself a random variable because it depends on the random outcomes of the coin tosses.
In the first N – 1 coin tosses, the player following the martingale strategy loses 1, 2, …, 2N–1 units, accumulating a total loss of 2N ? 1. On the Nth toss, there is a win of 2N units, resulting in a net gain of 1 unit over the first N tosses. For example, suppose the first four coin tosses are T, T, T, H making N = 3. The bettor loses 1, 2, and 4 units on the first three tosses, for a total loss of 7 units, then wins 8 units on the fourth toss, for a net gain of 1 unit. As long as the coin eventually shows heads, the betting player realizes a gain.
What is the probability that N = ?, i.e., that the coin never shows heads? Clearly it can be no greater than the probability that the first k tosses are all T; this probability is qk. Unless q = 1, the only nonnegative number less than or equal to qk for all values of k is zero. It follows that N is finite with probability 1; therefore with probability 1, the coin will eventually show heads and the bettor will realize a net gain of 1 unit.
This property of the idealized version of the martingale accounts for the attraction of the idea. In practice, the idealized version can only be approximated, for two reasons. Unlimited credit to finance possibly astronomical losses during long runs of tails is not available, and there is a limit to the number of coin tosses that can be performed in any finite period of time, precluding the possibility of playing long enough to observe very long runs of tails.
As an example, consider a bettor with an available fortune, or credit, of {\displaystyle 2^{43}}(https://wikimedia.org/api/rest_v1/media/math/render/svg/1d6068d5addf9af4d7fbf03a25e4e739511b1bb6) (approximately 9 trillion) units, roughly half the size of the current US national debt in dollars. With this very large fortune, the player can afford to lose on the first 42 tosses, but a loss on the 43rd cannot be covered. The probability of losing on the first 42 tosses is {\displaystyle q^{42}}(https://wikimedia.org/api/rest_v1/media/math/render/svg/75a835fc74838d9ecbcfc8954f079c8b2031af1c), which will be a very small number unless tails are nearly certain on each toss. In the fair case where {\displaystyle q=1/2}(https://wikimedia.org/api/rest_v1/media/math/render/svg/d16b0f66a6ab27fbe7bca2f687c63f978b1b21f4), we could expect to wait something on the order of {\displaystyle 2^{42}}(https://wikimedia.org/api/rest_v1/media/math/render/svg/4d55eb5d5d414d711a882d3f07f0ac219400e02a) tosses before seeing 42 consecutive tails; tossing coins at the rate of one toss per second, this would require approximately 279,000 years.
This version of the game is likely to be unattractive to both players. The player with the fortune can expect to see a head and gain one unit on average every two tosses, or two seconds, corresponding to an annual income of about 31.6 million units until disaster (42 tails) occurs. This is only a 0.0036 percent return on the fortune at risk. The other player can look forward to steady losses of 31.6 million units per year until hitting an incredibly large jackpot, probably in something like 279,000 years, a period far longer than any currency has yet existed. If {\displaystyle q>1/2}(https://wikimedia.org/api/rest_v1/media/math/render/svg/0047abf6670b62d557c4bc4c16c35f599d0a34d7)1/2" style="border: none; vertical-align: -0.838ex; margin: 0px; display: inline-block; width: 7.708ex; height: 2.843ex;">, this version of the game is also unfavorable to the first player in the sense that it would have negative expected winnings.
The impossibility of winning over the long run, given a limit of the size of bets or a limit in the size of one's bankroll or line of credit, is proven by the optional stopping theorem.[1]-Wiki
------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Now, how about providing us with one of your working systems?

and again, Where's your question?  What is it that you want me to answer???
Title: Re: Roulette systems don't work
Post by: Real on June 23, 2016, 10:14:33 PM
Question:

How long has this forum been around?

How many working and winning systems have you guys found?

How many here actually go to a casino?

Title: Re: Roulette systems don't work
Post by: spins on June 23, 2016, 10:25:08 PM
again this forum has been hijacked by common sense and logic ----back to tumble weeds and nothing but the sound of crickets for awhile 
Title: Re: Roulette systems don't work
Post by: mr j on June 23, 2016, 10:29:46 PM
@Reyth >> I want to show you some form of respect as a mod BECAUSE I got so little of it (lol).

That said, there is NO WAY any form of a Marty (much less outside play) will work long term. It wont even work mid-term (I made that up). There is no damn way. All these systems I see on the boards is what the BEGINNERS start out with.

Did you try your system out with a trot? (lol, I'm being funny now)

You guys seriously need to think way way way outside the box. Am I on the same level as Real? No but I sure the heck know more about this game compared to most.

Ken
Title: Re: Roulette systems don't work
Post by: Real on June 23, 2016, 10:30:28 PM
Thanks Mr. J. :)

Quote
again this forum has been hijacked by common sense and logic ----back to tumble weeds and nothing but the sound of crickets for awhile -Spins

Spins,

Look at the posts on this forum over the years.  Can you find a single system any where on it that works?  Can you find any systems that are unique and that aren't re posted and recycled under different names, countless times again and again???  Go way back...look carefully.  ::)
Title: Re: Roulette systems don't work
Post by: spins on June 23, 2016, 10:45:13 PM
well that would be a waste of time, I agree systems don't work, I have couple of questions for you-- do you still play ap, are bais wheels common, on average how long would it take a newbie to grasp ap constructions and giving the amount of time put in to learning these methods, is it a viable option ? 
Title: Re: Roulette systems don't work
Post by: Real on June 23, 2016, 10:48:49 PM


Quote
do you still play ap, are bais wheels common, on average how long would it take a newbie to grasp ap constructions and giving the amount of time put in to learning these methods, is a viable option ?

Yes. 

There are several short cuts that you can learn, exploit, and put into action without having to fully grasp wheel assembly flaws or wheel construction.  There's also visual ballistics, which is different from wheel bias.  VB tends to provide the player with the highest edge of all.  However, there's very little you can do to win online if that's your goal.
Title: Re: Roulette systems don't work
Post by: Reyth on June 23, 2016, 11:52:14 PM

Quote
there's a max table bet.


Nope, there isn't.
Title: Re: Roulette systems don't work
Post by: scepticus on June 23, 2016, 11:58:48 PM
Thanks Mr. J. :)

Quote
again this forum has been hijacked by common sense and logic ----back to tumble weeds and nothing but the sound of crickets for awhile -Spins

Spins,

Look at the posts on this forum over the years.  Can you find a single system any where on it that works?  Can you find any systems that are unique and that aren't re posted and recycled under different names, countless times again and again???  Go way back...look carefully.  ::)

And I thought my Nine Blocks and 5 in 7 were " unique" in roulette forums  !
Some think they are " worthless " but that does not mean that they are not " unique ",
I am puzzled that Progressive Bettors don't use the 5 in 7 when playing Even- Chance bets. 
Then , again, we all have our own views , don't we ?  We use a method that we are comfortable with .
Our Money - Our Choice .
Title: Re: Roulette systems don't work
Post by: Real on June 24, 2016, 12:17:25 AM

Quote
there's a max table bet.


Nope, there isn't.

Oh Really?

What casinos don't have a table max?

Mr. J., is correct, most of you have never set foot in a real casino.
Title: Re: Roulette systems don't work
Post by: Reyth on June 24, 2016, 12:22:35 AM
There is a long list of them Mr. Know It All and Mr. Lecture Us All.

Here is one which is all I need to prove my point:

1 Cent Roulette - Perfect Money Casino - Casino Games
http://member.1centroulette.com/casinogames.html#
Title: Re: Roulette systems don't work
Post by: Real on June 24, 2016, 12:27:30 AM
Reyth,

That's not a real casino.
Title: Re: Roulette systems don't work
Post by: Reyth on June 24, 2016, 12:31:41 AM
Which is the exact same logic you are using when you say carte blanche: "Systems don't work."

QED.
Title: Re: Roulette systems don't work
Post by: Reyth on June 24, 2016, 12:32:39 AM
Ok, so I guess you mean, "Systems don't work except on online casinos?"

You should say so then.
Title: Re: Roulette systems don't work
Post by: Real on June 24, 2016, 12:33:32 AM


Quote
Ok, so I guess you mean, "Systems don't work except on online casinos?"

You should say so then.

Reyth,

A link to a penny game?  Really?  Do you honestly believe that?  Do you truly believe that the Martingale is a working system?  After all these years, that's the best that you've got???
Title: Re: Roulette systems don't work
Post by: Jesper on June 24, 2016, 12:47:26 AM
There is a long list of them Mr. Know It All and Mr. Lecture Us All.

Here is one which is all I need to prove my point:

1 Cent Roulette - Perfect Money Casino - Casino Games
http://member.1centroulette.com/casinogames.html# (http://member.1centroulette.com/casinogames.HTML#)

I have tested the above casino a few times, and they claim it is no table limit. Other on line casinos have very larger max bet. at BV(due to low min) it is 1 to 20000 (5-20000 on NOZ).  It is of course not sensible to use a martingale in order to win all time there, as  and it will lose at any casino. Most of the users of Martingale use  a limited rang.
Title: Re: Roulette systems don't work
Post by: Real on June 24, 2016, 12:49:23 AM
Penny roulette, while playing the Martingale online.  Wow, you're going to win big.

Is the Martingale all you've got?
Title: Re: Roulette systems don't work
Post by: Reyth on June 24, 2016, 12:49:52 AM

Quote
Ok, so I guess you mean, "Systems don't work except on online casinos?"

You should say so then.

Reyth,

A link to a penny game?  Really?  Do you honestly believe that?  Do you truly believe that the Martingale is a working system?  After all these years, that's the best that you've got???

Why should you complain?  The Martingale IS a working system.  It works 100% of the time.  I am just showing you that it is POSSIBLE to win playing roulette.  It is undeniable.

And I will even go farther and say that the Martingale is the foundation of all system design.

Penny roulette, while playing the Martingale online.  Wow, you're going to win big.

So now you're changing your tune to: "Systems don't work to win significant amounts of money"?
Title: Re: Roulette systems don't work
Post by: Real on June 24, 2016, 12:53:35 AM
Quote
The Martingale IS a working system.  It works 100% of the time.  I am just showing you that it is POSSIBLE to win playing roulette.  It is undeniable.

Your proof sucks, and here's solid proof that it fails.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martingale_(betting_system)

http://wizardofodds.com/gambling/betting-systems/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tmlscCK7E5c

Now, feel free to email each of the links above in order to tell them just how wrong they are. ;)
Title: Re: Roulette systems don't work
Post by: Reyth on June 24, 2016, 12:54:59 AM
Quote
The Martingale IS a working system.  It works 100% of the time.  I am just showing you that it is POSSIBLE to win playing roulette.  It is undeniable.

Your proof sucks, and here's solid proof that it fails.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martingale_(betting_system (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martingale_(betting_system))

http://wizardofodds.com/gambling/betting-systems/ (http://wizardofodds.com/gambling/betting-systems/)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tmlscCK7E5c (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tmlscCK7E5c)

Now, feel free to email each of the links above in order to tell them just how wrong they are. ;)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument_from_authority

YAWN.
Title: Re: Roulette systems don't work
Post by: Jesper on June 24, 2016, 12:55:10 AM
Penny roulette, while playing the Martingale on line.  Wow, you're going to win big.

Is the Martingale all you've got?

I never said I used Martigale, and a Casino where you can bet any size you like, you can of course win or lose big.
Some on line as BV limit the win to 20000 Euro in 24 hours.
Title: Re: Roulette systems don't work
Post by: Real on June 24, 2016, 01:00:13 AM
Quote
The Martingale IS a working system.  It works 100% of the time.  I am just showing you that it is POSSIBLE to win playing roulette.  It is undeniable.

Your proof sucks, and here's solid proof that it fails.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martingale_(betting_system (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martingale_(betting_system))

http://wizardofodds.com/gambling/betting-systems/ (http://wizardofodds.com/gambling/betting-systems/)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tmlscCK7E5c (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tmlscCK7E5c)

Now, feel free to email each of the links above in order to tell them just how wrong they are. ;)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument_from_authority (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument_from_authority)

YAWN.

I think what you mean is duh...

(http://growingleaders.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/my-brain-is-full.jpg)
Title: Re: Roulette systems don't work
Post by: Reyth on June 24, 2016, 01:02:19 AM
No what I mean is you posture yourself like you are an authority figure but when push comes to shove you are always like, "WELP!  But all these other guys say so!" -- so do you have an argument of your own or not?

So you now admit there are no table limits or are you stil in denial?

And why should anyone listen to you when you don't even know how casinos work?

The truth is that you are so overwhelmed your own pessimistic views that you are incapable of seeing reality.
Title: Re: Roulette systems don't work
Post by: Real on June 24, 2016, 01:04:13 AM
Reyth,

So the Martingale is your best system?  You don't have any that work then?
Title: Re: Roulette systems don't work
Post by: Reyth on June 24, 2016, 01:06:21 AM
The Martingale works every time.  I bring $1M to the table I will win every time and walk away with a profit.

And ahswer the question, you now admit there are no table limits or are you still in your own fantasy world?
Title: Re: Roulette systems don't work
Post by: Real on June 24, 2016, 01:07:38 AM
Reyth,

Do you have any system that changes the house edge?  Even one?
Title: Re: Roulette systems don't work
Post by: Reyth on June 24, 2016, 01:09:38 AM
Reyth,

Do you have any system that changes the house edge?  Even one?

The Martingale works every time.  I bring $1M to the table I will win every time and walk away with a profit.And ahswer the question, you now admit there are no table limits or are you still in your own fantasy world?


Quit dodging like a child.  Admit you are wrong and there are no table limits or are you not even capable of carrying on a proper discussion?  Are you that mentally weak?
Title: Re: Roulette systems don't work
Post by: Real on June 24, 2016, 01:16:07 AM
Reyth,

There's no point in discussing this any further because of the intellectual disconnect involved.

In short, the evidence has been presented, but you're not capable of comprehending it, and I'm not willing to rewrite it using smaller words, that are easier to comprehend, so that you can.
Title: Re: Roulette systems don't work
Post by: mogul397 on June 24, 2016, 01:25:49 AM
Attempting to beat the random game of roulette by designing systems based on the layout is as absurd as trying to break into a computer by smashing the monitor.
Real,
Of your 950 posts, the 900 are the same post with different wordings: "roulette systems don't work". So every new post with the same content you make will be posted here and move this topic to the top. Eventually we will have a mega-thread with hundreds of posts with the same message.

I'm sorry that this forum is (also) about roulette systems.
I'm sure that in the other "advantage play" forums you participate, you share the real methods to become rich by "playing the wheel". I am very happy for your success and I really wonder why not everyone follows your overly successful methods.

Looks like it's time to "get real".

And the rest of the other people's 900 posts all say things about "play this
way and win".

So they have something in common. Just opposite.

Pardon me, but most posts I see describe how to play a system and why.  I don't ever (very rarely) see a person posting their system over and over everywhere repeating themselves ad nauseum to the point of hijacking every thread in sight and demanding that their system is 100% infallible HG and allowing no arguments.

There is no defense for Real's behavior in this forum.

As far as forum etiquette, I don't know. It is certainly true supposedly, that
there is no winning system.  For the simple reason that eventually the behavior of
the outcome will exceed your bounds.

As far as the "opposite" comment, what I am saying is that all the rest of
posters are posting systems or methods that they think have some merit.
The opposite of the "johnny one note" that just harps that you can't win.
Title: Re: Roulette systems don't work
Post by: Real on June 24, 2016, 01:26:29 AM
Which system, on the entire forum, has the most merit? 

For what it's worth, some actually ARE better than others.
Title: Re: Roulette systems don't work
Post by: Reyth on June 24, 2016, 02:07:45 AM
Reyth,

There's no point in discussing this any further because of the intellectual disconnect involved.

In short, the evidence has been presented, but you're not capable of comprehending it, and I'm not willing to rewrite it using smaller words, that are easier to comprehend, so that you can.

See and that's it you are intellectually dishonest at your core which I discovered a long time ago which is why I gave up talking to you.

Quote from: mogul
As far as forum etiquette, I don't know. It is certainly true supposedly, thatthere is no winning system.

In theory there is no winning system because the theorists simply add +1 spin and say "nay, nya" see!  But the truth is we can do the same thing in theory because there are no table limits and with every spin the odds become more and more remote and the absurdity of their theory become apparent.
Title: Re: Roulette systems don't work
Post by: Jesper on June 24, 2016, 06:36:27 AM
With no table limit a brave player with a lot of money are ALMOST  sure to win. But not 100% sure. 

The HA will have effect which is stronger than any variance can be, after a lot of spins (can be as much as 40000),

It is true the Martingale can not be a sure winner even if no HA.  The only way to win sure using Martingale is
the starting bet is in the size of the banks funds. Even with a HA the casino is bound to lose, as it is near to zero probability the player never will win an EC bet.

As long the player lose, he must be able to double, until the player blow the bank in one hit.

The bank can stand a Martingaler as long they can pay out the starting bet, as the player funds the rest, which the bank have to pay when the Martingaler wins.

Title: Re: Roulette systems don't work
Post by: dobbelsteen on June 24, 2016, 07:43:48 AM
Real looks through a tube and sees only an AP method.
He doesnot know the difference between the HE or EV and the edge of the AP player.
He wrote that the edge of the ap is the will to winn. We all have this WILL.
I challenge Real to show a better a permanence than SSB. The problem is that a permanence of a AP player cannot be  controlled.
The SSB program cannot be manupulated.
He is not the man to grant he cannot produce such a permanence.
I play roulette 40 years in a B&M casino, I study the random sequences 40 years and I am still not an experience roulette expert.
I grant you,I do not believe in a bias wheel and AP methods. I never participate an AP discussion.
Title: Re: Roulette systems don't work
Post by: Real on June 24, 2016, 05:50:42 PM
Quote
He wrote that the edge of the ap is the will to winn.-Dobbelsteen

"The will to winn" ???  Where on earth did I write such a thing?

You need more than just "will" to win.  You need the edge if you're going to remain a winner over time.

Quote
I challenge Real to show a better a permanence than SSB. The problem is that a permanence of a AP player cannot be  controlled.
The SSB program cannot be manupulated.

I have no idea as to what the SSB even is.
Quote

I play roulette 40 years in a B&M casino, I study the random sequences 40 years and I am still not an experience roulette expert.

You're wasting your time studying random sequences.  Random is random.  Claiming that it's predictable is an oxymoron.  If you've been studying it for 40 years, then all I can say is that you've wasted 40 years.
Title: Re: Roulette systems don't work
Post by: mr j on June 24, 2016, 06:25:39 PM
Penny roulette, while playing the Martingale online.  Wow, you're going to win big.

Is the Martingale all you've got?

This is kind of my point as well. All these years, all these different boards and.....the BEST thats out there is,
playing a Marty, on-line play, progressions, playing two columns after the trigger hits and my personal favorite...the trot. (lol) I love reading posts when they say...they have a 33% of their column hitting. I simply want to jump off the nearest bridge.

I would give a full pardon to a NEW person to this game, they are kind of off the hook (not knowing any better). The not so new members, I just shake my head.

Ken
Title: Re: Roulette systems don't work
Post by: Real on June 24, 2016, 06:44:26 PM
Quote
I love reading posts when they say...they have a 33% of their column hitting. I simply want to jump off the nearest bridge.-Mr. J.

Amen! (Says your brotha from anotha motha)
Title: Re: Roulette systems don't work
Post by: mr j on June 24, 2016, 09:14:07 PM
oops....I meant, 33% probability of their column hitting (like the zeros mean nothing). You understood me anyways.

Ken
Title: Re: Roulette systems don't work
Post by: dobbelsteen on June 24, 2016, 09:27:18 PM
 Real:In your reply 36 on page 19
Title: Re: Roulette systems don't work
Post by: Real on June 24, 2016, 10:53:30 PM
Quote
The AP player`s edge is the reason that he will WIN on the long run
What's written above IS CORRECT.

Quote
He wrote that the edge of the ap is the will to winn.-Dobbelsteen
However, I DID NOT WRITE WHAT IS WRITTEN ABOVE.

"the will to winn" is a poor translation on your part.  The EDGE is the REASON that the AP WINS.  In other words, the AP gambler wins because he has the edge OVER the casino.  Understand?

  I believe it's your understanding of English that has accidentally confused you.

Best of luck, and I hope that it makes sense to you now. ;)

-Real
Title: Re: Roulette systems don't work
Post by: scepticus on June 25, 2016, 11:51:32 AM
Penny roulette, while playing the Martingale online.  Wow, you're going to win big.

Is the Martingale all you've got?

This is kind of my point as well. All these years, all these different boards and.....the BEST thats out there is,
playing a Marty, on-line play, progressions, playing two columns after the trigger hits and my personal favorite...the trot. (lol) I love reading posts when they say...they have a 33% of their column hitting. I simply want to jump off the nearest bridge.

I would give a full pardon to a NEW person to this game, they are kind of off the hook (not knowing any better). The not so new members, I just shake my head.

Ken

So just what is your approach, ken ?
AP ? Progressions ?
Title: Re: Roulette systems don't work
Post by: mr j on June 25, 2016, 01:20:04 PM
Penny roulette, while playing the Martingale online.  Wow, you're going to win big.

Is the Martingale all you've got?

This is kind of my point as well. All these years, all these different boards and.....the BEST thats out there is,
playing a Marty, on-line play, progressions, playing two columns after the trigger hits and my personal favorite...the trot. (lol) I love reading posts when they say...they have a 33% of their column hitting. I simply want to jump off the nearest bridge.

I would give a full pardon to a NEW person to this game, they are kind of off the hook (not knowing any better). The not so new members, I just shake my head.

Ken

So just what is your approach, ken ?
AP ? Progressions ?

2-4 numbers max. Flat betting. Playing a *FORM* of hot numbers.

I play the wheel only, never the layout. Nice size units.

Ken
Title: Re: Roulette systems don't work
Post by: scepticus on June 25, 2016, 06:15:18 PM
Penny roulette, while playing the Martingale online.  Wow, you're going to win big.

Is the Martingale all you've got?

This is kind of my point as well. All these years, all these different boards and.....the BEST thats out there is,
playing a Marty, on-line play, progressions, playing two columns after the trigger hits and my personal favorite...the trot. (lol) I love reading posts when they say...they have a 33% of their column hitting. I simply want to jump off the nearest bridge.

I would give a full pardon to a NEW person to this game, they are kind of off the hook (not knowing any better). The not so new members, I just shake my head.

Ken

So just what is your approach, ken ?
AP ? Progressions ?

2-4 numbers max. Flat betting. Playing a *FORM* of hot numbers.

I play the wheel only, never the layout. Nice size units.

Ken
so you are a self-styled  Advantage Player then ?
Title: Re: Roulette systems don't work
Post by: Real on June 25, 2016, 06:55:16 PM
Quote
so you are a self-styled  Advantage Player then ?

My guess is that he's playing with an advantage of some size based on his comments regarding having won substantial amounts over the years.
Title: Re: Roulette systems don't work
Post by: Reyth on June 25, 2016, 07:57:03 PM
There are plenty of systems based on the wheel results that have nothing to do with AP, necessarily.
Title: Re: Roulette systems don't work
Post by: Real on June 25, 2016, 08:45:21 PM
A quick FYI

In order to win over time, you must have the edge.  This is pretty much absolute.  The exception being one big win like in a lottery.

It doesn't matter how the advantage is obtained, it just has to be an advantage of some kind.  It doesn't matter whether it's by exploiting the wheel via some kind of hot number system, by some form of visual prediction, a comp program, change in rules, or bonus payouts.  The edge is the edge.  In the case of Mr. J., he's found what works best for him after several years of play.  He's likely found the edge by exploiting the wheel.

The edge is the goal of EVERY roulette player.  Claiming that you don't want the edge or don't need an edge to win in the long run is absurd. 

When designing a system always ask yourself, "How can the system enable me to get the edge over the casino?"
When in doubt, try to focus on hot number strategies/systems.  Such systems are actually slightly better than the others.

-Really
Title: Re: Roulette systems don't work
Post by: Reyth on June 25, 2016, 08:55:01 PM
If some numbers are hot that means conversely that other numbers are cold.
Title: Re: Roulette systems don't work
Post by: Real on June 25, 2016, 08:58:01 PM
Quote
If some numbers are hot that means conversely that other numbers are cold.

Yep, and you definitely want to avoid them.
Title: Re: Roulette systems don't work
Post by: Reyth on June 25, 2016, 09:01:33 PM
The wheel can't avoid either.
Title: Re: Roulette systems don't work
Post by: Real on June 25, 2016, 09:17:18 PM
Reyth,

Are you strictly an online player?
Title: Re: Roulette systems don't work
Post by: Reyth on June 25, 2016, 09:24:50 PM
Yup.  Right now I don't have a proven system that will work in a B&M casino and even though I am very much in the minority on this site, I think B&M casinos are a waste of time (DUCKS).

(http://www.anorak.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/harry-styles1.gif)
Title: Re: Roulette systems don't work
Post by: Real on June 25, 2016, 09:29:44 PM
Quote
Yup.  Right now I don't have a proven system that will work in a B&M casino and even though I am very much in the minority on this site, I think B&M casinos are a waste of time (DUCKS).

Refreshing, and honest answer. 

What's the best online live game?
Title: Re: Roulette systems don't work
Post by: Reyth on June 25, 2016, 09:30:38 PM
Well, I only play roulette.  I think TH poker is pretty good though.  Actually I am not quite correct in saying that I don't have a proven system that will work in a B & M casino but instead that I don't have available funds to play in a B & M casino. ;)
Title: Re: Roulette systems don't work
Post by: scepticus on June 25, 2016, 10:25:42 PM
Quote
so you are a self-styled  Advantage Player then ?

My guess is that he's playing with an advantage of some size based on his comments regarding having won substantial amounts over the years.

"over the years " mrJ has claimed profiting from his.
"over the years " then he won with BOTH method play and AP.
Is he now claiming, as you suggest, that he only  won when  using only AP ?
Title: Re: Roulette systems don't work
Post by: Real on June 25, 2016, 10:27:28 PM
Quote
Well, I only play roulette.  I think TH poker is pretty good though.  Actually I am not quite correct in saying that I don't have a proven system that will work in a B & M casino but instead that I don't have available funds to play in a B & M casino.

Playing poker online for small stakes actually isn't that bad. 
Title: Re: Roulette systems don't work
Post by: Real on June 25, 2016, 10:28:57 PM
Quote
"over the years " mrJ has claimed profiting from his.
"over the years " then he won with BOTH method play and AP.
Is he now claiming, as you suggest, that he only  won when  using only AP ?-Scepticus

I don't really know Mr. J's situation.  I suspect that he has an advantage of some kind.  You'd have to ask him.  I just know this, you don't want to make him angry.   ;)    He's kind of like Rooster Cogburn.  He's very seasoned and only plays in a real casino.

(https://slaterfiction.files.wordpress.com/2011/06/jeff-bridges-as-rooster-cogburn.jpg)
Title: Re: Roulette systems don't work
Post by: mr j on June 25, 2016, 11:44:52 PM
Quote
so you are a self-styled  Advantage Player then ?

My guess is that he's playing with an advantage of some size based on his comments regarding having won substantial amounts over the years.

"over the years " mrJ has claimed profiting from his.
"over the years " then he won with BOTH method play and AP.
Is he now claiming, as you suggest, that he only  won when  using only AP ?

I think me and Kav did this maybe six weeks ago. I really dont want to look for the post (you can).

As I said, there is a difference between winning and always a winner. If a guy plays a Marty on either red or black then starts his Martingale system......wins on Monday Tuesday Wednesday.

Is this guy winning OR always a winner? HUGE DIFFERENCE !!!!!

Where did I say I am into AP? Can you find that for me please. I have also stated, if I ever really got into AP (full commitment) its all I would be doing/practicing etc.

I NEVER do anything half a**. Regardless if casino related or not. 100% or I dont even start. I've always been like that. As Real said, a person may be using (at least in results) AP tactics and might not know it OR simply using a different term....like a "method".

Is this me? I dont know.

Ken 
Title: Re: Roulette systems don't work
Post by: scepticus on June 26, 2016, 12:32:43 AM
Quote
so you are a self-styled  Advantage Player then ?

My guess is that he's playing with an advantage of some size based on his comments regarding having won substantial amounts over the years.

"over the years " mrJ has claimed profiting from his.
"over the years " then he won with BOTH method play and AP.
Is he now claiming, as you suggest, that he only  won when  using only AP ?

I think me and Kav did this maybe six weeks ago. I really dont want to look for the post (you can).

As I said, there is a difference between winning and always a winner. If a guy plays a Marty on either red or black then starts his Martingale system......wins on Monday Tuesday Wednesday.

Is this guy winning OR always a winner? HUGE DIFFERENCE !!!!!

Where did I say I am into AP? Can you find that for me please. I have also stated, if I ever really got into AP (full commitment) its all I would be doing/practicing etc.

I NEVER do anything half a**. Regardless if casino related or not. 100% or I dont even start. I've always been like that. As Real said, a person may be using (at least in results) AP tactics and might not know it OR simply using a different term....like a "method".

Is this me? I dont know.

Ken

In your post of June 25 you said you "played the wheel ". This is the usual expression used by AP so I think it reasonable to think that you were an AP.
btw
at the risk of making you angry , I don't agree that betting ECs is foolish .
Title: Re: Roulette systems don't work
Post by: mr j on June 26, 2016, 12:39:38 AM
Quote
so you are a self-styled  Advantage Player then ?

My guess is that he's playing with an advantage of some size based on his comments regarding having won substantial amounts over the years.

"over the years " mrJ has claimed profiting from his.
"over the years " then he won with BOTH method play and AP.
Is he now claiming, as you suggest, that he only  won when  using only AP ?

I think me and Kav did this maybe six weeks ago. I really dont want to look for the post (you can).

As I said, there is a difference between winning and always a winner. If a guy plays a Marty on either red or black then starts his Martingale system......wins on Monday Tuesday Wednesday.

Is this guy winning OR always a winner? HUGE DIFFERENCE !!!!!

Where did I say I am into AP? Can you find that for me please. I have also stated, if I ever really got into AP (full commitment) its all I would be doing/practicing etc.

I NEVER do anything half a**. Regardless if casino related or not. 100% or I dont even start. I've always been like that. As Real said, a person may be using (at least in results) AP tactics and might not know it OR simply using a different term....like a "method".

Is this me? I dont know.

Ken

In your post of June 25 you said you "played the wheel ". This is the usual expression used by AP so I think it reasonable to think that you were an AP.
btw
at the risk of making you angry , I don't agree that betting ECs is foolish .

The "angry" thing is kinda a joke. We disagree regarding ECs, oh well. At the minimum level of knowledge, why would you not play the wheel? (even if not into AP). I'm leaving now, off to the casino. I did something kind of new. My buddy is playing there now, sitting NEXT to the wheel (my favorite spot).

He's holding my spot for me (lol)....good buddies are hard to find.

Ken
Title: Re: Roulette systems don't work
Post by: scepticus on June 26, 2016, 12:48:14 AM
Quote
so you are a self-styled  Advantage Player then ?

My guess is that he's playing with an advantage of some size based on his comments regarding having won substantial amounts over the years.

"over the years " mrJ has claimed profiting from his.
"over the years " then he won with BOTH method play and AP.
Is he now claiming, as you suggest, that he only  won when  using only AP ?

I think me and Kav did this maybe six weeks ago. I really dont want to look for the post (you can).

As I said, there is a difference between winning and always a winner. If a guy plays a Marty on either red or black then starts his Martingale system......wins on Monday Tuesday Wednesday.

Is this guy winning OR always a winner? HUGE DIFFERENCE !!!!!

Where did I say I am into AP? Can you find that for me please. I have also stated, if I ever really got into AP (full commitment) its all I would be doing/practicing etc.

I NEVER do anything half a**. Regardless if casino related or not. 100% or I dont even start. I've always been like that. As Real said, a person may be using (at least in results) AP tactics and might not know it OR simply using a different term....like a "method".

Is this me? I dont know.

Ken

In your post of June 25 you said you "played the wheel ". This is the usual expression used by AP so I think it reasonable to think that you were an AP.
btw
at the risk of making you angry , I don't agree that betting ECs is foolish .

The "angry" thing is kinda a joke. We disagree regarding ECs, oh well. At the minimum level of knowledge, why would you not play the wheel? (even if not into AP). I'm leaving now, off to the casino. I did something kind of new. My buddy is playing there now, sitting NEXT to the wheel (my favorite spot).

He's holding my spot for me (lol)....good buddies are hard to find.

Ken

What do you mean by "at the minimum level of knowledge why would you not play the wheel "?
I'll read your answer tomorrow .
Hope you have ( had ) a profitable visit to the casino .
Title: Re: Roulette systems don't work
Post by: Real on June 26, 2016, 01:08:20 AM
Careful...careful now, we don't want a gun fight here. ;)
Title: Re: Roulette systems don't work
Post by: Reyth on June 27, 2016, 03:05:36 AM
Regardless of the truth of your example, the random results of Red and Black are still being limited and can be expected to not exceed certain minimums/maximums.  The purpose of all system design is to structure our bets to take advantage of that limiting force.

We have told you this over and over but it still hasn't sunk in.
Title: Re: Roulette systems don't work
Post by: Real on June 27, 2016, 03:10:43 AM
Reyth,

I accidently posted in the wrong thread. 

Quote
The purpose of all system design is to structure our bets to take advantage of that limiting force.

We have told you this over and over but it still hasn't sunk in.

By the way....you're so wrong.  Don't you ever wonder why your systems don't work? 
Title: Re: Roulette systems don't work
Post by: Reyth on June 27, 2016, 03:30:19 AM
No.  What I wonder is why you think repeating your opinion about the Gambler's Fallacy Theory is going to change the mind of anyone that understands how variance works.
Title: Re: Roulette systems don't work
Post by: UK-21 on June 27, 2016, 08:44:54 AM
Reyth,

With the greatest of respect, if you understood "how variance works",  and it's statistical dynamics, I doubt you'd be applauding some of the misconceived ideas that have been discussed in this forum of late. If you're implying that the Gamblers Fallacy is incorrect, and that there is merit in the concept of numbers, or series of numbers, being due (which of course you're free to believe) then I think we're probably conversing from completely diametrically opposing positions - with little chance of any consensus. In this case I suspect further discussion will, regrettably, be futile.

Title: Re: Roulette systems don't work
Post by: Reyth on June 27, 2016, 08:54:35 AM
What I believe I can see and prove.  The GF is only a theory.  As you say, everyone is free to believe what they wish.
Title: Re: Roulette systems don't work
Post by: dobbelsteen on June 27, 2016, 11:55:21 AM

The AP players claim the  edge. They say to play profitable but they can not prove it, because they cannot show their live method on internet.

I play with my proven strategy in a B&M casino and on internet.. When I offer a demonstration on the internet, they are not at home
Title: Re: Roulette systems don't work
Post by: UK-21 on June 27, 2016, 07:03:04 PM
Does anyone else think that the gamblers fallacy is only a theory, and there's merit in the concept that some numbers, or series of numbers, have a higher probabiity of showing than others?
Title: Re: Roulette systems don't work
Post by: mr j on June 27, 2016, 07:41:07 PM
Does anyone else think that the gamblers fallacy is only a theory, and there's merit in the concept that some numbers, or series of numbers, have a higher probabiity of showing than others?

My view...I'm sure Real can do this better than me but this is my opinion. Due or bet on cold? No but I thought that way years back.

Individual numbers (not splits, streets etc).......temporarily hot? I say YES but with strict rules.

What does hot mean? Max numbers to bet? For how long (then drop THAT number)?
No damn progression. Hot might mean a bias wheel? Maybe it doesn't mean bias, its just a hot number(s), dont look so deep into the WHY OF IT? etc. etc. etc.

This is as close as I can get to your question.

Ken
Title: Re: Roulette systems don't work
Post by: Janusz on June 27, 2016, 07:52:52 PM
Does anyone else think that the gamblers fallacy is only a theory, and there's merit in the concept that some numbers, or series of numbers, have a higher probabiity of showing than others?

Gambler´s Fallacy is a psychological disfunction because people think: Now must this ... happen, if it didn´t happen for a longer period.
It is like a alcoholic says to himself, tomorrow I will stop, but today I drink a last time.

No number has a higher probability than any other number.
Title: Re: Roulette systems don't work
Post by: Bayes on June 27, 2016, 08:17:19 PM
Does anyone else think that the gamblers fallacy is only a theory, and there's merit in the concept that some numbers, or series of numbers, have a higher probabiity of showing than others?

But that has to do with bias, not independence. And strictly speaking, the gambler's fallacy is about consistency, so if you think that red is more likely after 10 blacks but also believe that outcomes are fair (meaning independent and unbiased), then you're contradicting yourself.
Title: Re: Roulette systems don't work
Post by: mr j on June 27, 2016, 08:23:55 PM
Does anyone else think that the gamblers fallacy is only a theory, and there's merit in the concept that some numbers, or series of numbers, have a higher probabiity of showing than others?

But that has to do with bias, not independence. And strictly speaking, the gambler's fallacy is about consistency, so if you think that red is more likely after 10 blacks but also believe that outcomes are fair (meaning independent and unbiased), then you're contradicting yourself.

I'm not knocking your post Bayes but I notice the same thing a lot. When you guys (dont include me) talk about methods...the DOs and DONTs. Hot or cold etc., you guys always refer to the EC's. Why?

Ken
Title: Re: Roulette systems don't work
Post by: Bayes on June 27, 2016, 08:34:05 PM
Ken, it's only because each side of an EC has the same chance of winning, so it's easier to see when one is supposedly "due". That's the only reason (for me anyway). The same principle applies to any bet but I think the point is made a little more clearly using the EC's  rather than saying a number is due when it hasn't hit for 300 spins, or whatever.
Title: Re: Roulette systems don't work
Post by: dobbelsteen on June 27, 2016, 09:46:14 PM
GF belongs to gamblers.Every experience player knows ,hecan not predickt the outcome of the next spin.
A player expect a hit within his betting selection .
He start betting after a trigger
Title: Re: Roulette systems don't work
Post by: Bebediktus on June 28, 2016, 07:41:26 AM

The AP players claim the  edge. They say to play profitable but they can not prove it, because they cannot show their live method on internet.

I play with my proven strategy in a B&M casino and on internet.. When I offer a demonstration on the internet, they are not at home
Such talk simply show that you are not players, or say - play is not your bussines and if you play then simply play for fun.
If you will be serious player than you will  try to find and learn wining methods and not talk, that
Quote
they cannot show their live method on internet.
In internet are not one place where you himself can simulate VB play and look which will be advantage and compare results with your play.
You simply not know where that is possible to do and talk nonsenses....
Title: Re: Roulette systems don't work
Post by: Real on August 19, 2017, 11:48:57 PM
My Tally Counter (https://sourceforge.net/projects/mytallycounter/).  You can run several of them at a time if you are tracking the count of different events.

(http://i67.tinypic.com/hwijo2.jpg)

Here is a Successive Sequence From HeckTM

It doesn't look like much until we notice that it extends for over 500 spins and a balance swing of 2500+ units! 

I only just barely lost my profit for a brief time and had to go up and down in the recovery levels, locking in my recovery profits, attacking to mitigate previous losses and dealing with false recoveries & repeated dropdowns. 

3000 units would more than cover all the fluctuations.

At around spin 3000 we can see a full progression loss with raised chips; a 1:101 coups event, which illustrates why having a high-percentage progression win rate is so important.

If we look at the sequence from about spin 1500 to around spin 3000 and then compare it to the sequence from around spin 3050 to around spin 3300, it illustrates that progressions DO work; the incline difference is due completely to the progression.

This is why surfing skills are so important -- controlling the timing and amount of the progression based on game events as they unfold. 

This is what the IDG means when he says, "I sure am good at roulette!" (currently holding a 200,000+ balance, up from 1700 and over an almost 2 year timeframe); he calls it "scrapping" and has faced very many drawdowns, successfully reversing them all.

Reyth,

Up as you lose progressions are very inefficient and they don't make sense mathematically.

1. You initial bet must be very small so it prevents you from making any real money. Since the initial bet must be so small your unit bet is very small when you hit a lucky streak which in turn limits your win to puny amounts of money
2. You have to risk virtually your entire bankroll just for a puny win, which mathematically isn't logical.
3. There's no such thing as an up as you lose progression that can win consistently over a long period of time.
Title: Re: Roulette systems don't work
Post by: Real on August 20, 2017, 12:17:48 AM
My Tally Counter.  You can run several of them at a time if you are tracking the count of different events.Here is a Successive Sequence From HeckTM.  It doesn't look like much until we notice that it extends for over 500 spins and a balance swing of 2500+ units!  I only just barely lost my profit for a brief time and had to go up and down in the recovery levels, locking in my recovery profits, attacking to mitigate previous losses and dealing with false recoveries & repeated dropdowns.  3000 units would more than cover all the fluctuations.At around spin 3000 we can see a full progression loss with raised chips; a 1:101 coups event, which illustrates why having a high-percentage progression win rate is so important.If we look at the sequence from about spin 1500 to around spin 3000 and then compare it to the sequence from around spin 3050 to around spin 3300, it illustrates that progressions DO work; the incline difference is due completely to the progression.This is why surfing skills are so important -- controlling the timing and amount of the progression based on game events as they unfold.  This is what the IDG means when he says, "I sure am good at roulette!" (currently holding a 200,000+ balance, up from 1700 and over an almost 2 year timeframe); he calls it "scrapping" and has faced very many drawdowns, successfully reversing them all.
Reyth,Up as you lose progressions are very inefficient and they don't make sense mathematically.1. You initial bet must be very small so it prevents you from making any real money. Since the initial bet must be so small your unit bet is very small when you hit a lucky streak which in turn limits your win to puny amounts of money2. You have to risk virtually your entire bankroll just for a puny win, which mathematically isn't logical.3. There's no such thing as an up as you lose progression that can win consistently over a long period of time.
Title: Re: Roulette systems don't work
Post by: Real on September 07, 2017, 07:08:05 PM
I have to make this quick note because I have to go and I don't want to forget:

There is only so much space on the felt and therefore statistically there MUST be a confluence of activity in ONE area more than any other it MUST happen because it cannot NOT happen because the odds are too great for it to NOT happen.

This concept is an amazing way to think about roulette geographically.  When we merge the word geography and statistics, what word do we have?

You're trying to make roulette into something that it is not.  The wheel is beaten by studying the wheel, not the layout.
Title: Re: Roulette systems don't work
Post by: Real on September 08, 2017, 01:02:46 AM
If you can't overcome the house edge, then you will inevitably become a permanent loser after enough bets have been placed.  The house edge is much larger and all consuming than the variance of the game overtime.
Anyone that claims otherwise is one or possibly all of the following...

1. Naive and doesn't gamble much.
2. Sucks at math.
3. Delusional.
4. Selling a scam. 
Title: Re: Roulette systems don't work
Post by: Real on October 14, 2017, 12:54:48 AM
If you feel that there's any merit whatsoever to the method/system then you need to go back and read on the history of the game and basic probability.
Title: Re: Roulette systems don't work
Post by: MrPerfect. on October 14, 2017, 10:07:56 AM
Systems are very good idea ( it's just money management and exploration strategy), provided that they are designed on the wheel that gonna be played.
    General focus of the systems is misleading. .. it should provide optimal exploration of play opportunity  ( wich depends on wheel/ ball itself).
     Target for system should be proper bet selection ( biased numbers, limit on distances. ..ets), this way system play is not a gambler fallacy but a tool to take more money in less time.
   
Title: Re: Roulette systems don't work
Post by: Real on October 23, 2017, 07:16:22 AM
Sorry to tell you guys this, but keeping stats on and calculating the sd on the red/black is an embarrassing and  ::) goofy waste of time. 
Title: Re: Roulette systems don't work
Post by: scepticus on October 23, 2017, 04:11:20 PM
So there is a difference when betting a dozen- 12 numbers- using the layout  and betting 12 numbers on the wheel ? Aren't the probabilities the same - 12 chances from 37 chances ?
 
Title: Re: Roulette systems don't work
Post by: MrPerfect. on October 23, 2017, 08:00:37 PM
 Probabilities of these 2 events are not the same. Reason is simple - wheels are not perfect.  It will depend ofcause if you are able to predict that sector of 12 numbers correctly, be it by vb or bias...  because in general, for non predictive player, betting on a dousen is more " sequre"
Title: Re: Roulette systems don't work
Post by: scepticus on October 23, 2017, 08:24:39 PM
A wheel can be imperfect yet not capable of exploitation.  That is the fact that the AP in this  forum ignore. Yes, we need to predict the dozen more than it's Expectation but you  are wrong to claim that this can only be done by VB or Bias.
Title: Re: Roulette systems don't work
Post by: dobbelsteen on October 23, 2017, 09:05:21 PM
It is impossible to prove that 12 random numbers on a wheel has another statistic occurrence then the 12 numbers a dozen. If you think so then describe how to proof it. It is the same question for 12 numbers  created by an fair RNG. For a RNG proof we can use a program.
Title: Re: Roulette systems don't work
Post by: MrPerfect. on October 23, 2017, 11:54:01 PM
Dobbelsteen,  l do not speak about 12 numbers sector randomly chosen.  But even so.... let's assume it's random choice.
    There are some positive and negative 12 numbers sectors there , negative ones are often ( 90% of cases) more in numbers ( if counted).
    You need to understand, wheels are not perfect, but it doesn't mean that positive numbers or sectors will be all over the place! Normally it's few numbers only ( 5-6) , or in case of sectors , it's just few of them possibly positively biased. If you choose target randomly ( sectors) it's more likely to choose the wrong one. And that wrong one will be more likely negatively biased. Generally it's bad trip, sometimes it may become super bad trip.
      That's why for non predictive player random group like dousen is better... numbers are scattered and it permits to kind of have higher chance to balance positive and negative numbers.
    Think about it, many make systems based on excel simulation. ... then go to casino and say " it is worst then worst case in my simulations"...  it's for a reason, and now you know wich one exactly.
Title: Re: Roulette systems don't work
Post by: scepticus on October 24, 2017, 01:19:14 AM
Same Old.. Same Old ...
Why don't you AP understand that even if modern wheels are not perfect this does NOT mean that they are exploitable. Ask
a Professional Physicist .
 In Europe you would be hard pushed to find a wheel that is biased enough to be exploited.  But you guys  find them with little bother ?
I would like a demonstration of your claimed talents in a REAL B& M casino . Anyone can claim online  that they win megabucks by claiming they have found a biased wheel and have become invisible to casino staff .

All we get is same old nonsense that the only way to win is by using  VB or Bias.
Title: Re: Roulette systems don't work
Post by: shapecode99 on October 24, 2017, 07:31:20 AM
Sergiy... same old story.
Title: Re: Roulette systems don't work
Post by: MrPerfect. on October 24, 2017, 09:21:27 AM
Same Old.. Same Old ...
Why don't you AP understand that even if modern wheels are not perfect this does NOT mean that they are exploitable. Ask
a Professional Physicist .
 In Europe you would be hard pushed to find a wheel that is biased enough to be exploited. 
As long as you need confirmation of your own words by someone else opinion,  your own will not be taken seriously.  Why wouldn't you yourself perform a study on some wheels and form opinion on something valid?

    If wheel is perfect- it's a dream of vb player. How it can be not exploitable? There are 4 vertical diamonds there , they collect around 70% of hits on average . In some rotor speeds they overlapping nicely. It's a task for 5th year of school students. .. yet you do not get it. There is no way to have less then 10% edge on perfect wheel for vb player. 
Title: Re: Roulette systems don't work
Post by: scepticus on October 24, 2017, 03:54:43 PM
Same old.. same old !abuse those who don't agree with you.
 A project for  5th year students and yet Professional Physicists can't crack it because it is above their competence ?, Now who is stupid   ?  and where is kav's much touted delete button ?
Bitcoin will take over the world  yet admit that it might be a scam? Now who is stupid ?
Stay of the juice Mr.P  !
Title: Re: Roulette systems don't work
Post by: MrPerfect. on October 24, 2017, 04:04:51 PM
Scepticus,  things are simple. I speak about something lm doing. I get personal expirience.  I do not care professors, physicists,  statisticians, wheel manufacturers... anyone opinion in general, because l formed mine on PERSONAL EXPIRIENCE. 
  No one stop you to do the same.
 Wheels are out there, on your local casinos. If you can not clearly see numbers, pay someone or ask a friend. I already provided info needed to perform such test for free...  list of variables, recommended reading. What you want more???
     If l see stupidity posted, then l hold a freedom to personally recognise it as a such and openly express my opinion based on FACTS. In this case facts are factual data l gathered/ studied myself on more then 20 wheels. At least 15 of them are / were in Europe. 
    What else l can say? If you see my comment as abuse, then report it to moderator.
Title: Re: Roulette systems don't work
Post by: Reyth on October 24, 2017, 05:54:11 PM
Obviously Scepticus isn't stupid and I don't think Mr. P was calling him stupid.  I think both systems and vb/bias/dealer signature work, when performed properly (neither of them are easy) and that is really the crux of this conversation.
Title: Re: Roulette systems don't work
Post by: MrPerfect. on October 24, 2017, 06:05:48 PM
 "Stupidity" was referring to posters opinion,  not poster himself.
   It's quite difficult to find a strategy or betting plan ( besides super agressive) wich wouldnt work, providing target numbers do have advantage.
Title: Re: Roulette systems don't work
Post by: scepticus on October 24, 2017, 07:07:46 PM
It seems that my understanding of the English language differs from that of Reyth and Mr. Perfect so there seems no point in continuing  to contribute to this forum.
' Bye all !
Title: Re: Roulette systems don't work
Post by: kav on October 25, 2017, 07:33:58 AM
Using personal remarks and abusive language is evidence of absence of arguments.
Title: Re: Roulette systems don't work
Post by: dobbelsteen on October 25, 2017, 08:44:19 AM
I agree
Title: Re: Roulette systems don't work
Post by: Real on November 02, 2017, 02:24:04 PM
Quote
I'm hardly a gambling newbie. I've been making a living sports betting for the last 16 years.


Only 16 years? Making a living, running the office fantasy betting pool, or just supporting a gambling problem?  Your comments on roulette indicate the later is likely the correct answer.

Quote
You can just say it's all random but that's just a get-out clause which conveniently lets you off the hook without having to put in any effort to find a way.

Yes I can.  It's logic, common sense, math, and experience.  You should try it. ;)

Quote

Stick to your biased wheels and let those who have a more open mind investigate other possibilities
(https://www.gannett-cdn.com/-mm-/ea83c3cc2e1df76dcefa070e9211e0930fea3ceb/c=0-3-643-860&r=537&c=0-0-534-712/local/-/media/2015/11/10/FortCollins/FortCollins/635827669149623540-FB-IMG-1447046712403.jpg)

Your mind is trapped in the cage that's the gambler's fallacy. 
Title: Re: Roulette systems don't work
Post by: McCoy on November 02, 2017, 04:42:07 PM
You stick to your cage and I'll stick to mine. And whatever you're selling I'm not buying it.  :)
Title: Re: Roulette systems don't work
Post by: Reyth on November 02, 2017, 06:02:08 PM
I'm a long-term loser, I admit it!  We HAVE to be, its built into the game!  Nothing wrong with that. 

As far as the GF, that is a theory that cannot be proven (even though many believe in it) and it is being APPLIED to roulette by those that wish to make a point about the game.

Statistics DO apply to roulette and we can use them to our advantage but it is a monumentally difficult task that requires much research and in-the-trenches work to accomplish because variance is an incredibly tricky and savage opponent.

Real is of course correct, whatever we do, we will lose more than we win; its a simple fact.
Title: Re: Roulette systems don't work
Post by: McCoy on November 02, 2017, 06:53:43 PM
Real is wrong to say that no matter what system we use we will necessarily lose, although of course he is correct about the house edge being unavoidable. Even bias wheel players can't avoid it. The house edge in most sports bets is well over 10%, far more than roulette, and yet significant numbers of punters make a consistent profit, including me. I know the odds are not fixed in sports like they are in roulette, but that isn't important, it just means you have to focus your attention on the selection process. And he clearly doesn't know what the gambler's fallacy actually is, he just accuses anyone who uses a system of falling for it.

Quote
Real is of course correct, whatever we do, we will lose more than we win; its a simple fact.

Then why bother to research anything if it's hopeless? From what I've seen of your systems Reyth I think you're approaching things in the wrong way. You seem to be counting on events catching up, but that never works.
Title: Re: Roulette systems don't work
Post by: Reyth on November 02, 2017, 07:14:40 PM
Losing more than we win doesn't mean we can't be profitable, it just means we win less than what we lost. :)

I play a unique mix of hot and cold at the same time, betting on peaks and valleys.  Its similar to trading the markets, where we pick a certain stock/commodity to follow and buy/sell based on what its trading at.

Of course you are right, all of my past systems didn't approach the game in this way but I learned things from them that helped me to improve my game. :)

Roulette simply doesn't ever "even out".  Its a game that is based on Perfectly Balanced ImbalanceTM.
Title: Re: Roulette systems don't work
Post by: Real on November 02, 2017, 09:27:30 PM
Quote from: Naively Stated by McCoy
Real is wrong to say that no matter what system we use we will necessarily lose,

If you're playing a random wheel or rng, then you will certainly become a loser over time.  Regardless of your bet selection.  Again, this is a proven fact. 

Quote from: Naively Stated by McCoy
Even bias wheel players can't avoid it.

When playing biased wheels the player gets the edge over the casino.  Due to the defective gaming device, some numbers hit more frequently than probability would dictate because of the bias.  This is what enables the player to get the edge.  In visual ballistics the player can also get the edge because of the accuracy of his predictions. In the end it's getting the edge that enables the player to win, not money management or the hit and run nonsense.

Quote from: McCoy
The house edge in most sports bets is well over 10%, far more than roulette, and yet significant numbers of punters make a consistent profit, including me. I know the odds are not fixed in sports like they are in roulette, but that isn't important, it just means you have to focus your attention on the selection process.

You simply can't compare the selection process of the two.  In the random game of roulette, it doesn't really matter what you choose to bet on, over time the result will inevitably still be (the house edge) x (the total amount bet).  Claiming otherwise is ludicrous.
Title: Re: Roulette systems don't work
Post by: McCoy on November 03, 2017, 09:32:33 AM
The problem with your simplistic analysis Real and why it doesn't apply in the real (excuse the pun) world is that it's only relevant when thinking about what happens over millions of spins. What you call random means that each number has the same chance as any other to hit so that eventually all will have hit the same number of times or the ratios will be the same for each pair. However in the short term ie a playing session there is no tendency to balance and therefore you can't call the outcomes random in the previous sense of the word. They are still random in the sense that spins are independent but that's only half the equation because in order for outcomes to be random outcomes must be independent *and* equally likely. You only have to observe a couple of hundred spins in order to see that outcomes are not equally likely and imbalance is the norm. So I reject your premise that outcomes are random. What I'm attempting to do is capitalise on these imbalances, trends and patterns which occur in the short term. You can be of the opinion that this is a waste of time but it is not a 'ludicrous' enterprise as I have already proven for myself. And it is certainly not the 'gambler's fallacy' because that involves betting in the belief that the long term statistics apply in the short term, which ironically is exactly what you are doing when you criticise. So get real, Real.