Roulette Forum

Roulette Forum => Casinos Online and... Offline (reviews) => Topic started by: gilok on April 17, 2017, 02:41:23 PM

Title: BETFAIR - 11 times Number 18
Post by: gilok on April 17, 2017, 02:41:23 PM
As you can see,during BETFAIR Real bets, we have 11 times the 18 number. It's impossible play with crooks. I has lost 800.[/size]gilfx
Title: Re: BETFAIR - 11 times Number 18
Post by: kav on April 17, 2017, 04:11:18 PM
This is unbelievable!!!!
Title: Re: BETFAIR - 11 times Number 18
Post by: gilok on April 17, 2017, 04:22:09 PM
Yes, you have reason.
Title: Re: BETFAIR - 11 times Number 18
Post by: Reyth on April 17, 2017, 05:26:00 PM
Absolutely flawed!  Words are hard to describe!!

I did an enlarged scan (500% only by eyeball), this does not appear photoshopped!

UNBELIEVABLE!!!

They are being blatant about it.
Title: Re: BETFAIR - 11 times Number 18
Post by: Sheridan44 on April 17, 2017, 09:53:51 PM
This is utter madness!   Brick and Mortar from now on for me.
Title: Re: BETFAIR - 11 times Number 18
Post by: Reyth on April 18, 2017, 01:28:32 AM
My calculator isn't big enough to contain how many (?.?.?-ions) to 1 this is.
Title: Re: BETFAIR - 11 times Number 18
Post by: MrPerfect. on April 18, 2017, 08:43:52 AM
 Wich exactly the name of this table? , please. I'd like to look, if you do not mind.
Title: Re: BETFAIR - 11 times Number 18
Post by: thomasleor on April 18, 2017, 09:39:48 AM


"Raises" one eyebrow.The statistical chance of this happening is exactly 1 in 177904287493328589.219

When you are dealing with random number generators like a physical wheel, or even a completely pure RNG engine this is not impossible, only extremely improbable.

I once, while playing at the Fitzwilliams casino, saw the number 22 coming up 9 times and the 10th time 31 came up! After calculating the odds once the number had come up 5 times I placed a side bet on the 22  plus its two neighbour slots the rest of the time and three times over as a stop signal. It was a very profitable day and so it was for the rest playing that table. Perhaps you should have done the same with no 18. What stopped you?  ;)

I would suggest you try out www.betvictor.com instead if you like RNGs. For real honest and completely regulated live online game mirroring real play with customers I would suggest, www.portomasolive.com or UNIBET (their Saint Vincent tables) or even www.dragonaracasino.com (http://www.dragonaracasino.com)  (though their betwindows are very short).
Title: Re: BETFAIR - 11 times Number 18
Post by: Bayes on April 18, 2017, 12:06:11 PM
My two cents:

It's a natural reaction I guess to believe that something funny is going on when such sequences come up, but to certain extent it's because the sequence is recognizable. Each sequence of spins has the same probability, it's just that we don't notice the "ordinary" sequences which contain a mix of numbers. When people choose their lotto numbers there are certain selections like 1,2,3,4,5,6,7 which are very rarely chosen, because people prefer numbers which look more "random", but if we're thinking rationally, we'll realize this makes no sense; every selection is as good as any other, unless we have evidence to believe otherwise.

The OP didn't mention whether this was at Betfair RNG or live casino?
Title: Re: BETFAIR - 11 times Number 18
Post by: MrPerfect. on April 18, 2017, 12:41:08 PM
@thomasleor, is there any fizwilhams videofeed awaliable? Sins Dublinbet changed ownership,  l could not find it elsewhere...
Title: Re: BETFAIR - 11 times Number 18
Post by: thomasleor on April 18, 2017, 01:12:24 PM

Fitzwilliams ceased all outgoing streams with all online casino operators some time ago.

Online casinos like Dublin bet, lucky31, lucky live casino (all these bought up by the costa Rica based Celtic casino) and a few others lost their streaming rights overnight. I used to have VIP accounts with these casinos and basically withdrew my money the very week I had the news confirmed.)

Today, at least to my knowledge, you can only play at Fitzwilliams physically present at their tables. As I love a live game online, watching other players physically present at a table, I choose nowdays the best online casinos (with physical buildings and tables), like Casino Portomaso, Malta (online known as portomasolive.com), that has many good tables going, Oracle Casino (accessible via portomaso as proxy), Draghonara Casino either via their own homepage or via proxy portal (Dublinbet, Leovegas), the famous Italian Casino Saint Vincent (Italian alps) where Sean Connery used to play, accessible for non-Italians via UNIBET or LEOVEGAS and of course the state-owned Croatian Casino International with its beautiful tables sending live via Leovegas and UNIBET proxy portal.

I have nice accounts in all these casinos and have never experienced any payout refusal or other forms of trickery. They are all heavily regulated Casinos and make way too much money on gamblers to risk losing that privilege.

Here are some videos showing how these video feeds from these live casino look like;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WllKg8DXtZo (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WllKg8DXtZo)  (Oracle. Love the table design and color. Good for the eyes if you play a prolonged period.)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AdQMpV-A4aU (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AdQMpV-A4aU)  (portomasos own tables)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fIT02Djiu04 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fIT02Djiu04)  (saint vincent promo video)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=olrTjfVi82U (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=olrTjfVi82U)  (saint vincent live feed example)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DqsX9t9M4Mo (Casino International - Zagreb. .

Hope this helps.
Title: Re: BETFAIR - 11 times Number 18
Post by: Reyth on April 18, 2017, 04:28:47 PM
"Raises" one eyebrow.The statistical chance of this happening is exactly 1 in 177904287493328589.219, Captain.

(https://68.media.tumblr.com/7e87f06fd6f49e15b90e24bb725b929d/tumblr_nwi2h92tYt1uj1zxso1_400.gif)

*Spock leaves casino*
Title: Re: BETFAIR - 11 times Number 18
Post by: MrPerfect. on April 18, 2017, 04:40:25 PM
Is there any specific times when this Saint Vincent table is available?  I searched on both Leo Vegas and Unibet. ..  could't find for some reason...
Title: Re: BETFAIR - 11 times Number 18
Post by: Reyth on April 18, 2017, 05:05:42 PM
Wich exactly the name of this table? , please. I'd like to look, if you do not mind.

Mr. Perfect wants to know the name of this live table. :D
Title: Re: BETFAIR - 11 times Number 18
Post by: thomasleor on April 18, 2017, 05:08:24 PM

I am playing at Saint Vincent right now at UNIBET.. You have to open an account (no need for deposit) Then you click on live casinos. You do the same thing in Leovegas. You discover the ST Vincent/Casino International as a small clickable blue image with a 19th century building in the background under "live casino".

Enter Unibet ST Vincent portal here

(http://i68.tinypic.com/e6y3iw.png)

Click on one of these tables to access ST Vincent or Casino International

(http://i66.tinypic.com/vd01tv.png)

Leovegas looks like this

(http://i67.tinypic.com/2vlo038.png)
Title: Re: BETFAIR - 11 times Number 18
Post by: Reyth on April 18, 2017, 05:42:00 PM
Does anyone know how Betfair is audited? I believe this shows a SEVERE disconnect in the auditing process (if there is one)?
Title: Re: BETFAIR - 11 times Number 18
Post by: Bayes on April 18, 2017, 07:07:08 PM
Don't know about the auditing, but it's not hard to find dirt on Betfair in online reviews.

I don't know why more RNG OC's don't use the Betvoyager system of randomness control, that way you can do your own auditing as you play.
Title: Re: BETFAIR - 11 times Number 18
Post by: Reyth on April 18, 2017, 07:38:52 PM
Malta Gaming Authority - In our experience the MGA is the best regulatory authority in terms of the management of player complaints. Their complaints team is open and cooperative in the discussion of player issues and we've managed to resolve a number of credible player issues working with the MGA. You can find further information regarding this regulator's complaint policies. You can find further information regarding this regulator's complaint policies here (website connection closed can't retrieve the actual link, just go to the link Bayes posted and scroll down)
Title: Re: BETFAIR - 11 times Number 18
Post by: MrPerfect. on April 18, 2017, 08:09:24 PM

 these folks are not friendly to costumers... ( betfair)too much tricks.
Title: Re: BETFAIR - 11 times Number 18
Post by: Jesper on April 19, 2017, 04:53:12 PM
18,18,18,18,18,18,18,18,18,18,18

is very rare,may be the casino fake the result.

the number 12,4,0,15,34,9,5,17,1,0,29 is at the same probability, any saw it should post.

By positive progression that's is nice if WE STAND ON THE SAME. OR WE play 12,4,0,15,34,9,5,17,1,0,29. If it hits we win!
Title: Re: BETFAIR - 11 times Number 18
Post by: Reyth on April 19, 2017, 05:42:30 PM
12,4,0,15,34,9,5,17,1,0,29 does not represent an obvious and guaranteed distribution flaw as 18,18,18,18,18,18,18,18,18,18,18 does. 

In this latter we can be SURE that there is a flawed system at work (unless we wish to be one that believes we are actually witnessing a true event with the statistics of 1 in 177904287493328589.219 and I will take that bet every time and win every time).

No roulette auditor can believe this output is fair; they would suspect a problem every time.

This is a prime example of the difference between theory and practical reality.

177 quadrillion, 904 trillion, 287 billion, 493 million, 328 thousand, 589 to one.

Funny, the odds are 18 digits long. >.<
Title: Re: BETFAIR - 11 times Number 18
Post by: Bayes on April 20, 2017, 08:06:12 AM
It's not as impossible as first reaction would lead you to believe. Firstly, as I and Jesper have already mentioned, each sequence of the same length has the same probability. Secondly, the odds can be reduced by a factor of 37 because you would be equally amazed if any number had repeated that many times. Thirdly, if you think about how many casinos there are in the world now as compared with 30 years ago (including all online casinos and RNG's which can generate a number every second), and do a rough calculation, you'll see the odds are fairly close to those "impossible" odds. Finally, if Betfair really were cheating, why be so blatent about it? if they wanted to make someone lose they surely would have chosen a less conspicuous sequence (that doesn't mean that there wasn't a problem with the RNG, but it does tend to go against the claim that they were deliberately cheating).

Apparently 7 in a row is the maximum recorded up until now, (see this example (http://www.roulette30.com/2014/04/gamblers-fallacy.html)) but since records are a function of the number of spins, and this is increasing all the time, should we be surprised that old records are continually being broken?
Title: Re: BETFAIR - 11 times Number 18
Post by: Reyth on April 20, 2017, 08:22:25 AM
I never believed that photo; I figure its photoshopped or malfunctioning.  I also don't like the tone of the site you linked; it appears to be quite "sales pitch" oriented, just my opinion though.

I am more than willing to discount cheating as the motive but the argument about "every number sequence has the same odds" is a total red herring because when you have that many numbers OF THE SAME NUMBER, its a DISTRIBUTION issue as well as an odds issue AND just like the argument of about the odds of being attacked by a shark, we don't live in the water and so can't very well compare it with being struck by lightning.

I am not the person that is going to say, "shrug, there are so many spins in the world, this must be the ONE" and no auditor would either.
Title: Re: BETFAIR - 11 times Number 18
Post by: Bayes on April 20, 2017, 08:47:05 AM
What do you mean by a "distribution" issue?

If you just mean that all sequences must consist of numbers which are distributed around the wheel (or virtual wheel), why should that necessarily occur for a such a short sequence? True, the vast majority of sequences will consist of numbers which are so distributed to a greater or lesser extent, but rare events do happen as we all know.

If the OP wanted to sue Betfair, there is no way that he would succeed based on such a short sample of spins. You would only be able to find grounds for foul play if the sample size was much larger. Any professional statistician will tell you that the sequence is possible. Same goes for auditors.
Title: Re: BETFAIR - 11 times Number 18
Post by: Trilobite on April 20, 2017, 08:58:40 AM
One way or another, it's bollocks.
Title: Re: BETFAIR - 11 times Number 18
Post by: Bayes on April 20, 2017, 09:05:37 AM
It may well be bollocks in this case, but I'm surprised at how many gamblers believe there are some kind of hard-wired limits to the game. So, 18,18,18,18,18,18,18 has been recorded but 4 more hits is "impossible"?

There's a constant preoccupation with finding the maximum times some random event can happen, but this is always limited by the number of spins you can generate, so in reality there is no limit. You can only find limits if you take into account other factors.
Title: Re: BETFAIR - 11 times Number 18
Post by: MrPerfect. on April 20, 2017, 11:47:20 AM
Roulette very often produce this type of consistency.  Most of the time is not visible to naked eye because distances are not equal totaly.
   This case in particular looks somewhat out of common and would require studies of variables present to determine anything...
    I often catch this repetitive behavior,  it's very uplifting in terms of bankroll.
Title: Re: BETFAIR - 11 times Number 18
Post by: kav on April 20, 2017, 11:54:50 AM
Bayes,

If you do not doubt the fairness of the game when a single number shows up 11 consecutive times then I don't  know when will you start having doubts. But it is your money, so ok. Btw, if a perfect game can show the same number 11 times in a row then I want to hear the anomalies of biased games.

If the image posted by the original poster is true then they are definitely cheating their players. There is not doubt about it.

PS:Please try to not post links to roulette sites with casino links.

 
Title: Re: BETFAIR - 11 times Number 18
Post by: Dane on April 20, 2017, 12:17:01 PM
Bayes,

Your two cents (Reply #8) might have grown if you had been where it was at!
I am aware that there are so many possibilities in eleven spins: 37^11.
Still it is overwhelming to some of our brains. I am sure that you know the old legend of how chess was revealed. Payment: "Just" 1 grain of rice on the first filed or Square, 2 on the second, 4 for the third and so forth and so on. As a math master it might be a challenge for you to compare the number of rice grains for the 64 fields to 37^11. Just to put numbers in perspective!
Title: Re: BETFAIR - 11 times Number 18
Post by: Rinad on April 20, 2017, 12:47:12 PM


     that is the problem with math sometime, because everything is "possible", we dont see the obvious.
yes if I could live 1000 years I may see that 18x18 coming up, but come on now.
players get cheated all the time, online,air ball,ect...  and because of these extrem possibilities they think it still "could be just a bad timing" on their side.
we are not stupid players. many on this forum are very,very experienced ones.
we make tons of profits at home, spend countless hours testing. all goes good.
we triple our bankroll multiples times. then one day we said; time to make real money!
we change a few hundreds, few thousands maybe, and within the first 45 minutes we get killed!
been there,done it. once I played a even number system, guess what, the other side came up 22 times.
sure some may said, it happends all the time.
does it happends when you test for 20 thousands spins ? no it did not. within 45 minutes?
so it puts a bug in your brain and make you doubt your hard work. 2 weeks later you go back, same crap happens.
sorry guys, but more times then not, it is not you. SIMPLY GREED.
no way we always make good in practice and get CLUBERED WITH REAL MONEY.
spoke with a elderly gentleman 2 years ago, he had told me that because of mal function with  a air ball roulette machine, it started spelling out the number 22 ,  25 times, before the floor came ib and turned off the "darn thing".
a word of caution; BE VERY CAREFULL AND DONT BE NAIVE.
GREED IS REAL, GREED TAKES CHANCES ON GETTING CUT, AND GREED DONT CARE IN YOU HAVE MOUTH TO FEED.
dont let them make you doubt your skills. you are all great!

God bless,
Rinad
Title: Re: BETFAIR - 11 times Number 18
Post by: scepticus on April 23, 2017, 11:42:35 AM

I think it's a spoof .
Not because it is " impossible " but because this is the only notification of it. If this had actually happened  it would have  went viral on the internet . Glock would not have been the only one to see it.
IMO anyway.