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Roulette Forum => Roulette Systems => Topic started by: palestis on February 13, 2017, 07:43:04 PM

Title: NEW SYSTEM: SINGLE DOZEN
Post by: palestis on February 13, 2017, 07:43:04 PM
I have been working on this system for a long time now (partly the reason I have been inactive in the forum), and I am happy to announce that it works extremely well, and if some defenses are incorporated into this system it's bulletproof from losing.
             It's extremely simple and triggers come fast. It also an extension of the law of 2/3s.
The system has been tested on paper with real spins from Wiesbaden and also in a real casino, and I can't get it to lose.
The trigger is in the form of XXY. (XX are 2 numbers in the same dozen and Y is another dozen).
 Needless to say that XYX and YXX is the same thing as far as the trigger is concerned.
When we see this trigger in the last 3 numbers spun we simply bet the single dozen (Y), for 3 bets
  However 4 bets is fine too if the minimum is low enough.
Examples:
22,17,35. We bet the 3rd dozen
4,11,13. We bet the 2nd dozen.
25,3,31. We bet the 1st dozen.
I tested it by betting only 3 times. If  it fails, in all 3 bets in the cycle, I wait for a new trigger. Betting 4 times is not wrong. it's a personal choice
  The progression in units can be 1-1-1.5 or 1-1-2 if you like.
If the entire 3 bet cycle fails, you start the new trigger with a slightly higher chip. ( No need to go Martingale for obvious reasons).

Situations where you avoid betting, and wait for things to become more normal
1. If the same dozen appears repeatedly immediately preceding the trigger. (it's a sign of anomaly that can affect the rest of the dozens).
2. If the playable target dozen ( Y), has appeared more than 3+ times immediately prior to the trigger. (meaning it has appeared enough times already and runs the risk to disappear when you begin betting it  3 times after the trigger).
3. If the first 2 bets after the trigger result in XX (same dozen as the majority dozen in the trigger, you stop and only lose 2 bets). Easily recoverable in the next trigger
4. if there is more than one 0 in the numbers preceding the trigger. (0's tend to come in packs).

I have made a special point to pay attention to consecutive (back to back ), trigger losses and they simply don't happen.
Sometimes you will get 2 back to back trigger losses, but it's rare.
3 back to back trigger losses is extremely rare, and I have not seen 4 + consecutive trigger losses yet.
And I have tested many numbers.
In the picture I have a sample test:
I circle the trigger (XXY) with blue, and when it wins within the 3 playable spins I put a check mark on the number that won.
When it losses,  I put 3 red X's indicating that the 3 spins lost.
As you can see it won 25 times and lost 5 times for 3 spins each time.
But provided that the next trigger after a lost trigger has won, it's obvious that the loss was recovered and if the progression is higher you end up with a profit too. Which means the entire session was a win
The only way you could lose would be if many back to back triggers fail. Like 4+ and if they happen frequently.
But this is not happening in this system. A good B/R can handle a trigger loss here and there, or even 2-3 back to back trigger losses. Which are of course rare.
Any player can handle a 3 steps cycle loss of a single dozen , as it compares to playing 18 and 24 numbers. 

This system can be played "hit and run" style, as you can observe several roulettes for a trigger.
By the way the system applies to COLUMNS too.
And sometimes if you combine dozen and column trigger simultaneously, you can bet the 4 numbers that belong to the same dozen and column at the  same time

Title: Re: NEW SYSTEM: SINGLE DOZEN
Post by: Jake007 on February 13, 2017, 08:29:35 PM
Im trying it out for the past 15 minutes... I go up $10, down $10, up $10, down $10. Seems pretty even to me. I am betting 1, then 1, then 2. Then start over if I dont hit. Are you increasing your bet on the next set?
Title: Re: NEW SYSTEM: SINGLE DOZEN
Post by: Reyth on February 13, 2017, 08:36:46 PM
Very nice!

Have you noticed a difference between triggers:

1) YXX
2) XYX
3) XXY

I would expect that trigger #1 would perform the best, followed by 2 and with 3 performing the worst.

The statistical differences as far as streaks are concerned are:

1) 85.92% (2 buffer + 3 bets = 5 streak)
2) 79.16% (1 buffer + 3 bets = 4 streak)
3) 69.16% (0 buffer + 3 bets = 3 streak)

This is a 16.76% difference between trigger 1 and trigger 3! :o

Your betting conditions are very interesting.  I am studying these...

Quote from: The Pale Rider
1. If the same dozen appears repeatedly immediately preceding the trigger. (it's a sign of anomaly that can affect the rest of the dozens).

By repeatedly, is this 3 or more?
 

Quote from: The Pale One
3. If the first 2 bets after the trigger result in XX (same dozen as the majority dozen in the trigger, you stop and only lose 2 bets). Easily recoverable in the next trigger

Most ingenious!  This is of course referencing the Z which as not come in at all!

Quote from: His Paleness
4. if there is more than one 0 in the numbers preceding the trigger. (0's tend to come in packs).

Why preceding?  I would consider preceding to be favorable. 

What about during?  In other words, I would say that if a zero appears DURING our progression we immediately stop betting.

If I see a zero before betting I rejoice and heck more than one and I am ecstatic!

Have you considered any advantageous ways to include Z in your patterns?
Title: Re: NEW SYSTEM: SINGLE DOZEN
Post by: palestis on February 13, 2017, 10:58:01 PM
Im trying it out for the past 15 minutes... I go up $10, down $10, up $10, down $10. Seems pretty even to me. I am betting 1, then 1, then 2. Then start over if I dont hit. Are you increasing your bet on the next set?
That's good. At least is shows that it doesn't have the tendency to lose.
Yes after a lost set , you increase the starting chip in the next set.
What's  most important,  is that you don't want to encounter many consecutive set losses.
If the losing sets alternate among several wins, then a good B/R should overcome any set loss, provided the losing sets don't  repeat many times back to back, which doesn't happen. Otherwise I would not have bothered with this system.
Title: Re: NEW SYSTEM: SINGLE DOZEN
Post by: Jake007 on February 13, 2017, 11:12:01 PM
So after a lost set, do I increase to 2, 2, 4? Then again to 4, 4, 8? Or is that too much?

Im trying it out for the past 15 minutes... I go up $10, down $10, up $10, down $10. Seems pretty even to me. I am betting 1, then 1, then 2. Then start over if I dont hit. Are you increasing your bet on the next set?
That's good. At least is shows that it doesn't have the tendency to lose.
Yes after a lost set , you increase the starting chip in the next set.
What's  most important,  is that you don't want to encounter many consecutive set losses.
If the losing sets alternate among several wins, then a good B/R should overcome any set loss, provided the losing sets don't  repeat many times back to back, which doesn't happen. Otherwise I would not have bothered with this system.
Title: Re: NEW SYSTEM: SINGLE DOZEN
Post by: palestis on February 13, 2017, 11:21:36 PM
Very nice!

Have you noticed a difference between triggers:

1) YXX
2) XYX
3) XXY

I would expect that trigger #1 would perform the best, followed by 2 and with 3 performing the worst.

The statistical differences as far as streaks are concerned are:

1) 85.92% (2 buffer + 3 bets = 5 streak)
2) 79.16% (1 buffer + 3 bets = 4 streak)
3) 69.16% (0 buffer + 3 bets = 3 streak)

This is a 16.76% difference between trigger 1 and trigger 3! :o

Your betting conditions are very interesting.  I am studying these...

Quote from: The Pale Rider
1. If the same dozen appears repeatedly immediately preceding the trigger. (it's a sign of anomaly that can affect the rest of the dozens).

By repeatedly, is this 3 or more?

Quote from: The Pale One
3. If the first 2 bets after the trigger result in XX (same dozen as the majority dozen in the trigger, you stop and only lose 2 bets). Easily recoverable in the next trigger

Most ingenious!  This is of course referencing the Z which as not come in at all!

Quote from: His Paleness
4. if there is more than one 0 in the numbers preceding the trigger. (0's tend to come in packs).

Why preceding?  I would consider preceding to be favorable. 

What about during?  In other words, I would say that if a zero appears DURING our progression we immediately stop betting.

If I see a zero before betting I rejoice and heck more than one and I am ecstatic!

Have you considered any advantageous ways to include Z in your patterns?
No I haven't made a point to examine the way the trigger forms and how it affects the results.  But looking at the picture I posted initially with the system, I noticed that almost all lost triggers,  came from a trigger that was NOT IN THE FORM YXX. Good point, that might be yet another powerful  tweak.
The only problem is that it narrows the availability of triggers, making the system slow.
But if you bet with $100 chips, then it's worth the wait, if the certainty increases many-fold.
     Yes 3+ repeats preceding the trigger, is a cause of concern.
All you have to do is wait idle a few more spins, to break the streak.
      No if the 0 appears in one of the steps we play, we don't stop. It's just a losing bet.
I usually avoid a trigger formed after the presence of at least 2 Z's in the prior spins close to the trigger. because it might repeat during the playable steps. But this is not a major tweak. At the same time waiting a few spins takes no time at all, to get back to normal distribution of the dozens.
But I will make a point to examine the YXX trigger specifically to see if it wins the majority of the time.
But my testing purpose was to process as many numbers as possible, to determine if I get many back to back trigger losses. But for any NON YXX trigger that loses, there are several triggers that win.
The point is to make sure that back to back losses do not happen. And they don't
Any system that doesn't produce BACK TO BACK trigger losses can be made a winner.
That's the purpose of a healthy  B/R compared to the minimum chip required.
   
Title: Re: NEW SYSTEM: SINGLE DOZEN
Post by: palestis on February 13, 2017, 11:28:55 PM
So after a lost set, do I increase to 2, 2, 4? Then again to 4, 4, 8? Or is that too much?

Im trying it out for the past 15 minutes... I go up $10, down $10, up $10, down $10. Seems pretty even to me. I am betting 1, then 1, then 2. Then start over if I dont hit. Are you increasing your bet on the next set?
That's good. At least is shows that it doesn't have the tendency to lose.
Yes after a lost set , you increase the starting chip in the next set.
What's  most important,  is that you don't want to encounter many consecutive set losses.
If the losing sets alternate among several wins, then a good B/R should overcome any set loss, provided the losing sets don't  repeat many times back to back, which doesn't happen. Otherwise I would not have bothered with this system.
If you are testing it without actually playing it with real money then you can increase the chips  just the way you mentioned. But you shouldn't be getting  many back to back losses, except 2 and that's once in a while. If from 1-1-2 you jump to 2-2-4 you should be close to recovery of the previous loss under 1-1-2. Then you can continue the next 2 triggers with 2-2-4 and not only recover completely , but show a profit too. When that happens you revert back to 1-1-2.
In the casino I play this system I use $10-$10-$15. which translates to 1-1-1.5
Title: Re: NEW SYSTEM: SINGLE DOZEN
Post by: Geoffrey on February 14, 2017, 01:13:21 AM
this sounds like a pretty good defensive system.

One question. naturally this can be done on colomns too. so what if the trigger indicated that it's worth the gamble to combine both. Lets say second dozen + third colomn.

in this scenario do you play the 15-18-21-24 als single bets instead?
Title: Re: NEW SYSTEM: SINGLE DOZEN
Post by: juice on February 14, 2017, 03:07:22 AM
pales, thanks so much for such a great explanation, and the graphics and sharing your hard work! any data on a double zero wheel?
Title: Re: NEW SYSTEM: SINGLE DOZEN
Post by: palestis on February 14, 2017, 11:02:04 AM
this sounds like a pretty good defensive system.

One question. naturally this can be done on colomns too. so what if the trigger indicated that it's worth the gamble to combine both. Lets say second dozen + third colomn.

in this scenario do you play the 15-18-21-24 als single bets instead?
Yes it can be narrowed down to just 4 numbers, common to the dozen and column.
It doesn't happen often, but when it does, the pay off is much bigger because it's only 4 numbers.
Title: Re: NEW SYSTEM: SINGLE DOZEN
Post by: palestis on February 14, 2017, 11:09:47 AM
pales, thanks so much for such a great explanation, and the graphics and sharing your hard work! any data on a double zero wheel?
For testing purposes on paper, I use single zero wheel data easily found in various sites.
For 00 wheels I use random.org and add #37 for 00.
But when I actually play it, I play it in 00 wheel because I have no other choice. Usually at the Twin River casino in R.I. The system works equally well on the 00 wheel. The Win/Loss ratio is so high, things are not much different on the 00 wheel. Especially if you employ the defenses I mentioned in the first post.
Title: Re: NEW SYSTEM: SINGLE DOZEN
Post by: sonnywalters on February 14, 2017, 05:17:35 PM
Limited testing, but results are promising.
Title: Re: NEW SYSTEM: SINGLE DOZEN
Post by: Sputnik on February 17, 2017, 08:03:52 AM
palestis nice work ...

I am known for clustering dozen probability into EC positions and solve this puzzel.
You can play the EC and win two in a row when one dozen is missing using the same triggers as you mention above as the EC waves only have three property states.
Now you know how the missing state looks like and is the reason you can win two bets in a row as you capture the hole formation of that property or state.

I get very good result using this method and will keep it as one of my favorites when i travel around Europé. But i have one test left Before it is a green light and it has to pass my personal benchmark for being long term winner.
Will try this one with Holloways progression.

Cheers
Title: Re: NEW SYSTEM: SINGLE DOZEN
Post by: juice on February 17, 2017, 05:11:07 PM
Hi Sputnik , I know you have posted extensively on this topic, but I have never had the nerve to express my confusion, because many others have done that for me. I was wondering if we could maybe take this as a great opportunity for a quick sample play by yourself, for all of us to review. Just a quickie, maybe one play cross referencing each tactic. Believe me I am well aware you have done so enumerous times, but with this topic, maybe the cross reference will gel for us who can't seem to get it. I play ec's and math based, and for the rent, so I am frustrated by my own non ability to see it.

Sample like this........

12, 34, 26.......go

Here, it is clear the play is dozen 1, as long as all trigger rules are adhered to .
Now..., what say you?

Thanks you for your patience!   With Respect, The juice

Title: Re: NEW SYSTEM: SINGLE DOZEN
Post by: kav on February 17, 2017, 08:50:20 PM
Thanks for sharing your work Palestis. Very easy system to understand.

Quote
3. If the first 2 bets after the trigger result in XX (same dozen as the majority dozen in the trigger, you stop and only lose 2 bets). Easily recoverable in the next trigger

You don't use this condition in your example. In fact if you used this condition in the example sequence, then you would miss 3 hits (!) and would not have avoided any losses.

So maybe this condition is not such a good idea.
Title: Re: NEW SYSTEM: SINGLE DOZEN
Post by: palestis on February 17, 2017, 10:28:21 PM
Thanks for sharing your work Palestis. Very easy system to understand.

Quote
3. If the first 2 bets after the trigger result in XX (same dozen as the majority dozen in the trigger, you stop and only lose 2 bets). Easily recoverable in the next trigger

You don't use this condition in your example. In fact if you used this condition in the example sequence, then you would miss 3 hits (!) and would not have avoided any losses.

So maybe this condition is not such a good idea.
Yes
For testing purposes, I didn't use this condition as well as the other preventive situations that I mentioned above. The reason is I wanted to test as many numbers as possible  without wasting time  to incorporate red flags. So even betting with the presence of red flags, the system performed extremely well.
Once I established the huge Win to Loss ratio being a fact, I examined the situations where a lost cycle ( trigger) occurred. And most losses occurred after those red flags were present. Including the one you are inquiring about. Some losses were unrelated to those red flag conditions. Including the ones in the testing example that I posted. But the overall average of thousands and thousands of test spins, indicated that a major portion of lost cycles  were due to these red flags.
Ignoring them, the system still wins overwhelmingly.

But my attitude towards the casino is not to give them the slightest chance to win a round here and there.
Ideally if I place 100 bets I would like to win 99 and lose only one. I don't want the  casino to win even one time during my session. That is y I am looking for trigger restrictions that render a system bulletproof.  Patience and time is a must when you want to win all the time.
Lost winning opportunities and wasted time do not concern me. The end result is what I aim at.

Title: Re: NEW SYSTEM: SINGLE DOZEN
Post by: Rinad on February 19, 2017, 12:51:25 AM


I can see that playing this single dozen system, the wins come easier then if you were to just picking any dozen randomly. avoiding losing series is what it is all about.
playing the dozen with a column can give me a way out of having to raise a bet sometime. even flat betting with a double bet when you first begin your session can help me not having to raise my bet later on. by regressing to a single unit after winning the double.
like in poker the more outs you have out of one hand, the better. another out could be to place 2 split bets where the dozen and the column crisscross  and help the situation in times of need, covering those 4 numbers.
 good job with the method.

Title: Re: NEW SYSTEM: SINGLE DOZEN
Post by: Geoffrey on February 19, 2017, 02:41:10 AM
when palestis comes with a system on dozens i always read it with interest. this one seems good to, as always. i've expected nothing less from you :)
Title: Re: NEW SYSTEM: SINGLE DOZEN
Post by: scepticus on February 19, 2017, 03:04:26 AM
Thanks for sharing your work Palestis. Very easy system to understand.

Quote
3. If the first 2 bets after the trigger result in XX (same dozen as the majority dozen in the trigger, you stop and only lose 2 bets). Easily recoverable in the next trigger

You don't use this condition in your example. In fact if you used this condition in the example sequence, then you would miss 3 hits (!) and would not have avoided any losses.

So maybe this condition is not such a good idea.
Yes
For testing purposes, I didn't use this condition as well as the other preventive situations that I mentioned above. The reason is I wanted to test as many numbers as possible  without wasting time  to incorporate red flags. So even betting with the presence of red flags, the system performed extremely well.
Once I established the huge Win to Loss ratio being a fact, I examined the situations where a lost cycle ( trigger) occurred. And most losses occurred after those red flags were present. Including the one you are inquiring about. Some losses were unrelated to those red flag conditions. Including the ones in the testing example that I posted. But the overall average of thousands and thousands of test spins, indicated that a major portion of lost cycles  were due to these red flags.
Ignoring them, the system still wins overwhelmingly.

But my attitude towards the casino is not to give them the slightest chance to win a round here and there.
Ideally if I place 100 bets I would like to win 99 and lose only one. I don't want the  casino to win even one time during my session. That is y I am looking for trigger restrictions that render a system bulletproof.  Patience and time is a must when you want to win all the time.
Lost winning opportunities and wasted time do not concern me. The end result is what I aim at.

True. Palestis. The end result is what to aim at .
" To succeed you must first learn to survive "
Warren Buffet  ?
Title: Re: NEW SYSTEM: SINGLE DOZEN
Post by: palestis on February 20, 2017, 12:46:10 AM

I can see that playing this single dozen system, the wins come easier then if you were to just picking any dozen randomly. avoiding losing series is what it is all about.
playing the dozen with a column can give me a way out of having to raise a bet sometime. even flat betting with a double bet when you first begin your session can help me not having to raise my bet later on. by regressing to a single unit after winning the double.
like in poker the more outs you have out of one hand, the better. another out could be to place 2 split bets where the dozen and the column crisscross  and help the situation in times of need, covering those 4 numbers.
 good job with the method.
When a system is being  tested, the  most important merit is to verify that losses after a trigger don't occur back to back. Or having  frequent back to back losses, following a single win. That is the root of most system failures.  Especially if progression is used.
Any system with rare back to back losses followed by frequent consecutive wins can very well be a winning system.
It's reassuring to know that after a trigger loss, the next cycle will be a winner. Aside statistical observations and Win /Loss ratio computations,  the idea of back to back losses should be an inherent part of any system testing. If this premise is ignored, a head on collision with the black swan will sooner or later happen.
Title: Re: NEW SYSTEM: SINGLE DOZEN
Post by: mogul397 on February 27, 2017, 07:08:07 PM
I'm doing some testing, and this seems to look good.

After a week is everyone else on board? I love single dozen methods.
So much more playable.

What other single dozen methods have you worked out?
I'd love to hear.

Thanks!!
Title: Re: NEW SYSTEM: SINGLE DOZEN
Post by: mogul397 on March 01, 2017, 08:47:35 PM
I've been testing this and it has been great.

Trying to figure out why everyone abandoned it like
rats on a sinking ship.?????
Title: Re: NEW SYSTEM: SINGLE DOZEN
Post by: Jake007 on March 01, 2017, 09:10:46 PM
I like the ease of play. Its easy to recall in your mind, however for me I was just going up and down, up and down.

I've been testing this and it has been great.

Trying to figure out why everyone abandoned it like
rats on a sinking ship. ??? ??
Title: Re: NEW SYSTEM: SINGLE DOZEN
Post by: mogul397 on March 02, 2017, 12:04:41 PM
Jake, I remember you saying that. My testing has worked better for me.

For one thing, I can't think of a better starting place for a method. One
that goes steady as she goes.

I am trying to determine the best way of betting. What I was thinking
of was 1-1-2-3-4-5. That is 16 units bank and 2 groups of 3, in consideration
of this play. That lets you win a unit or so each time, I believe, and gives
you reasonable exposure each trigger, with a stop loss.

Perhaps you played a flatter betting progression and that is why you didn't
profit????  Cause I have good luck getting a hit within 2 triggers.

Feedback?  There is no value in trying good methods and just walking away from them.
And good bet selection is key.

Title: Re: NEW SYSTEM: SINGLE DOZEN
Post by: Fedda on March 02, 2017, 01:14:06 PM
Mogul, i get back to back losses every so often. But with your progression i have done better. Seems to be easier to recover. Are you stopping and look for another dozen to bet after two losses?
Title: Re: NEW SYSTEM: SINGLE DOZEN
Post by: Fedda on March 02, 2017, 01:39:21 PM
Here are the first 208 spins using the progression with -16 units stop loss. +50 units.

Lost two back to back in the session, but popped right back up.
Title: Re: NEW SYSTEM: SINGLE DOZEN
Post by: Fedda on March 02, 2017, 02:00:07 PM
Next round for 300 spins and only +9 units. Lots of back to back losses.

Title: Re: NEW SYSTEM: SINGLE DOZEN
Post by: Fedda on March 02, 2017, 03:42:38 PM
When reread the post again, i realised that i haven't playing it correctly, because when i got a trigger i played it until a loss or win, and then wait for the next trigger to begin. I didn't stop betting according to the rules as if xyxx showed up i just bet the 1-1-2 prog until a win or loss.
Title: Re: NEW SYSTEM: SINGLE DOZEN
Post by: petespin on March 07, 2017, 01:07:39 PM
hello  everybody , i ve discusssed a lot about this system with jim , and all i can say is that is an amazing and so simple system , easy to recover , and even at your bad day wont lose your bankroll , i vw worked in  a kind of variation make it more solid , i ll perhaps post it at time , cheers pete
Title: Re: NEW SYSTEM: SINGLE DOZEN
Post by: petespin on March 07, 2017, 01:39:07 PM
hey guys theoritically  its so easy to beat roulette ... but  for real .. its so hard , never forget that thing ! ;)
Title: Re: NEW SYSTEM: SINGLE DOZEN
Post by: juice on March 07, 2017, 10:29:55 PM
Palestis, This kicked ass today! Played with blacks and on real wheel live dealer rapid roulette. Started with quarters, and hit the first three on the first shot . I then switched to single and double virtual bets and kept separate score sheets for each. I used a 1,1,1.5 level one and a 1, 2, 2.5 level two. I have a deeper progression but did not need it. I have tweaked the method a bit to suit myself and my own philosophie on repeating trends, but the core still remains.
+18 black units and never a troubled session, the virtual losses are key when playing larger units. They allow you to work up and down your progression, within multiple session attempts, not getting bit by variance. I have seen THREE losing back to back to back sessions, but the virtuals cleaned that up nicely with no angst. This topic is way over looked.
I am a flat bet guy and this is almost the same, with the 2/1 pay out in the 1 hole. Almost as frequent as an even money parlay! You the MAN!           Kind Regards! The juice
Title: Re: NEW SYSTEM: SINGLE DOZEN
Post by: palestis on March 08, 2017, 10:41:55 AM

I have seen some very rare 3 back to back losses during the long tests that I did.
However, going back on my notes to pinpoint possible reasons for that, I saw that almost always
it involved a situation where there was an anomaly in the numbers preceding the trigger.
Something that I was not taking into account during testing, because I wanted to test as many numbers as possible, and didn't want to slow down by watching for red flags.
 That is,  one dozen has appeared consecutively. Like 2,7,1,11, 10,32. Though the obvious trigger is 11,10,32, I would let that trigger go without betting. Instead wait for a more normal sequence involving a normal mix of dozens.  Waiting for a few more spins won't kill you.
Also if I see a sequence like 2,7,1,11,10, 32,36, 8 I would definitely void the 32,36,8 trigger, because the target dozen (1st dozen), has already appeared 5 times just before the trigger was formed. Therefore chasing a dozen that has already appeared enough times can be a little risky. Let that go and wait till things turn to normal.
Also,  if after a trigger XXY, the first 2 spins are XX ( the same majority dozen in the trigger), I would stop at 2 lost spins.
When I went back on my notes after taking those red flags into account, the 3 back to back losses disappeared, and 2 back to back losses became rare.
And  If you add an entire virtual lost trigger in all its 3 steps, then losing becomes impossible. Or 2 virtually lost steps in  the trigger and another 3 betting steps after that.
 Especially applicable when betting with high value chips like black.
  Every tweak adds to certainty, at the expense of time. But who cares about time, when the rewards are high?
Title: Re: NEW SYSTEM: SINGLE DOZEN
Post by: jekhb76 on March 08, 2017, 09:16:12 PM

Awesome Palestis,
1.5 hour test. Online Live Wheel (Real Money) And I guess, I didn't even play it very well by the rules.

31 SESSIONS: PLAYED
24 SESSIONS: WON
2  SESSIONS: EVEN
5  SESSIONS: LOST
HIGHEST PROGRESSION 4-4-8
HIGHEST BACK TO BACK LOST SESSIONS: 2
TOTAL SPINS PLAYED: 204
TOTAL PLAYING TIME: 1:45 MIN. INCLUDING BRAKE

16
11 (-
10 (-
7
33
14 W
__________________________ 0
10
26
15
35
15
31
8
30
24
11 (-
13 (-
24 W
__________________________ +2
33 (-
34 (-
5
26
30
11 W
__________________________ +2
5
25
24 (-
21 (-
24
33 W
__________________________ +1
18 (-
13 (-
25
23
12
31 W
__________________________ +2
11 (-
10 (-
32
26 W
__________________________ +2
3
15
10
20 (-
18 (-
20
35
5 W
__________________________ +2
18
28 (-
32 (-
19 W
__________________________ +2
9
26 (-
31 (-
1 W
__________________________ +2
19
0
4
21 (-
18 (-
0
16
11 W
__________________________ +2
32 (-
27 (-
21
23 W
__________________________ +2
34
9
7
26
21 (-
21 (-
13
0
25 W
__________________________ +2
1
22
32 (-
34 (-
1
8
0 L
__________________________ -4
33
20 (-
22 (-
2
15
18 L
__________________________ -8 (2-2-4)
21
19 (-
24 (-
31
35 W
__________________________ +8 (4-4-8)
17
4
32 (-
26 (-
15
34
12 W
__________________________ +8 (2-2-4)
36
14
34 (-
36 (-
17 W
__________________________ +2
19
29
20
33
17
4
26
19
12 (-
11 (-
1
33
7 L
___________________________ -4
8
23 (-
20 (-
12 W
___________________________ +4 (2-2-4)
24
1
14
4
32
19 (-
16 (-
6
29 W
___________________________ +2
2
17
0
30 (-
35 (-
7 W
___________________________ +2
1
36 (-
27 (-
12 W
___________________________ +2
4
36 (-
28 (-
9 W
___________________________ +2
33
24 (-
18 (-
32 W
___________________________ +2
6 (-
3 (-
14
2
4
16 W
___________________________ +2
0
7 (-
8 (-
22
32
27
7 L
___________________________ -4
22
0
20
31 (-
36 (-
3
31
0 L
___________________________ -8 (2-2-4)
24
29
0
15
4
30
3
21
27
3 (-
6 (-
11
0
25 W
___________________________ +8 (4-4-8)
11 (-
4  (-
21
3
16 W
___________________________ 0 (4-4-8)
11
16
33
16
8
18 (-
13 (-
4 W
___________________________ +4 (2-2-4)
8 (-
2 (-
31
0
25 W
___________________________ +1
Title: Re: NEW SYSTEM: SINGLE DOZEN
Post by: palestis on March 08, 2017, 10:43:44 PM

Awesome Palestis,
1.5 hour test. Online Live Wheel (Real Money) And I guess, I didn't even play it very well by the rules.

31 SESSIONS: PLAYED
24 SESSIONS: WON
2  SESSIONS: EVEN
5  SESSIONS: LOST
HIGHEST PROGRESSION 4-4-8
HIGHEST BACK TO BACK LOST SESSIONS: 2
TOTAL SPINS PLAYED: 204
TOTAL PLAYING TIME: 1:45 MIN. INCLUDING BRAKE

I think by session we mean an entire day's play. Or one sitting before leaving and coming back later or next day.
I guess you meant you played 31 triggers. Because they were all in one sitting with continuous play.
I noticed that you skipped some triggers that were present, like the one I post in the picture.
If you lost 5 triggers (single), it's not really a loss because with some progression you recouped in the next trigger. Like if I bet B and RRB comes. I lost twice to RR and won the 3rd time.
At  $5-10 -20 progression it was not a loss because in the 3rd spin you won B and recovered the 2 lost RR's. The end result is win. Likewise with the dozen. A winning trigger following a lost one, should recoup the loss and/or end up with a profit depending on progression.
But your Win/Loss ratio sounds about right. With attention paid and avoiding the red flags,  the W/L ratio is about 6:1 or 7:1.
But as long as lost triggers don't occur in succession (back to back), there should be no problem whatsoever. With $1000 B/R and $10 minimum starting chip there in no way you can lose $1000, even if you run into 5 back to back losses. Which of course never happens.
The whole idea of a successful system is to make sure that in tests many back to back losses don't happen. That's what kills most systems.
A single trigger loss or a double can be easily recovered with progression.
And even 3 if the B/R is sufficient.
It's when you run into 4 + back to back losses (and frequently),  that the system will suffer.
In that case the system itself is not worth playing it.

Title: Re: NEW SYSTEM: SINGLE DOZEN
Post by: palestis on March 09, 2017, 12:32:36 AM
Palestis, This kicked ass today! Played with blacks and on real wheel live dealer rapid roulette. Started with quarters, and hit the first three on the first shot . I then switched to single and double virtual bets and kept separate score sheets for each. I used a 1,1,1.5 level one and a 1, 2, 2.5 level two. I have a deeper progression but did not need it. I have tweaked the method a bit to suit myself and my own philosophie on repeating trends, but the core still remains.
+18 black units and never a troubled session, the virtual losses are key when playing larger units. They allow you to work up and down your progression, within multiple session attempts, not getting bit by variance. I have seen THREE losing back to back to back sessions, but the virtuals cleaned that up nicely with no angst. This topic is way over looked.
I am a flat bet guy and this is almost the same, with the 2/1 pay out in the 1 hole. Almost as frequent as an even money parlay! You the MAN!           Kind Regards! The juice
I am glad someone acknowledges  the tremendous value  of VIRTUAL LOSSES especially when high value chips are involved. It is the key to increased certainty.
Because there are 2 ways to challenge the game of roulette.
One to follow its flow and trying to guess what the roulette will do.
The other and most successful, is to make your own flow by starting and stopping whenever you see fit. And using virtual losses to adjust your own flow to the variable conditions, plus to counter the variance whenever it decides to appear.
Title: Re: NEW SYSTEM: SINGLE DOZEN
Post by: palestis on March 09, 2017, 01:05:52 AM
I'm doing some testing, and this seems to look good.

After a week is everyone else on board? I love single dozen methods.
So much more playable.

What other single dozen methods have you worked out?
I'd love to hear.

Thanks!!
I have worked on another single dozen system but not as hard as the one in this post.
As opposed to the  "dozen breaker" which requires to play 2 dozens , this one is called the "dozen repeater". and you only play one dozen, trying to match the pattern,  in one of the 3 positions.
A few examples are better to give you the idea, rather than just describing it.
1.  When you have 22,7,31 the dozen pattern is 213. Then you play in succession the 2nd, then the 1st then the 3rd dozen. If 20 comes next you win in the first spin. If 2 comes next you win in the second spin. If 36 comes next then you win in the 3rd spin.

2. We have 10-8-30. The pattern is 113. We play the 1st, then the 1st again, then the 3rd dozen.
    Trying to match one of the 3 dozens in the  pattern. Then we stop and start over.
All you  have to do is read down on a score card and see how things turn out.
Of course you avoid a pattern that involves the same dozen like 1-4-11, or 15-19-22 etc.
If you read enough score cards I am sure an experienced player will discover the best way to play this system.  This is just a hint. 
The nice thing about it is that this system can be adapted to a single DS. Double street pattern repeater.
     
Title: Re: NEW SYSTEM: SINGLE DOZEN
Post by: jekhb76 on March 09, 2017, 06:02:56 AM
Hi Palestis, can you please give some examples in numbers when we avoid betting etc? it is still not clear to me. thanks. eddy
Title: Re: NEW SYSTEM: SINGLE DOZEN
Post by: jekhb76 on March 09, 2017, 10:42:54 AM
Never mind my last post Palatis, found it, you did explain it. thnx.

Title: Re: NEW SYSTEM: SINGLE DOZEN
Post by: jekhb76 on March 09, 2017, 11:03:33 AM
What we need to do know is to try and push this system to it's extreme. if we somehow can handle that, we have a long term winner!

First thing we should do, is to find out what the most back to back losses are when we ignore the red flags in this system. And just start betting everytime we see YXX / XYX / XXY no matter what hit before our trigger.

Next thing we should find out is what the longest progression is we can make for the extrem back to back losses.

For now, when using the system as pointed out and the max back to back losses calculated is when we multiply our base bet by 1000 as a bankroll we're safe.
This way we can do a progression of 8 steps (back to back losses).
1) 1-1-2
2) 2-2-4
3) 4-4-8
4) 8-8-16
5) 16-16-32
6) 32-32-64
7) 64-64-128

Total bankroll needed for this progression is 508 units
8) 128-128-256

This with in our mind that the table limit is 500 units. so 1000 units we'll never be in trouble, well at least for the original system.
but now we need to put things to the extreme. hope some can help.
Title: Re: NEW SYSTEM: SINGLE DOZEN
Post by: palestis on March 09, 2017, 11:05:38 AM
Hi Palestis, can you please give some examples in numbers when we avoid betting etc? it is still not clear to me. thanks. eddy
1. If there is sequence of numbers like 25-30-27-32-10-8-21 you avoid betting the 10-8-21 trigger,
    (too many numbers in the 3rd dozen  preceding  the trigger). Indicating a streak that might continue in a dozen that is not the target.
2.   12-9-8 30-25-2. You avoid, because the target dozen in the trigger already came at least 3 times in a row.  Then it becomes a little risky to bet that the same dozen will show up again.  (just a legitimate precaution).
3. if you have 15-22-30 and 21-17 comes you stop at 2 bets. (the majority dozen came twice again).
4. If there is a 0 or more 0's close to above the trigger , then it's best to avoid because 0's sometimes come in packs.
Also someone in the forum contributed the idea in a PM of letting a few numbers go before you pick up another trigger. (flow interruption). I found that to be a good idea in any system.

Also the progression you mentioned above you don't really have to climb up so abruptly.
After a trigger loss or 2 back to back losses, you can start the new trigger with a slightly higher chip.
And keep it for the next few triggers, until you recovered completely and/or made a profit. Then you revert back to the usual starting chip.

Title: Re: NEW SYSTEM: SINGLE DOZEN
Post by: jekhb76 on March 09, 2017, 11:15:49 AM
Thanks, it makes more sense now. now up testing the extreme.
Title: Re: NEW SYSTEM: SINGLE DOZEN
Post by: ice789 on March 09, 2017, 12:59:34 PM
rx code ? pls share
Title: Re: NEW SYSTEM: SINGLE DOZEN
Post by: petespin on March 09, 2017, 01:07:24 PM
look guys , jim, imo the best way to play this system is ... when u win at the first spin some times in a row is to play the exact opposite thus , to bet the other 2  dozens ,and not that one that the trigger shows , for instace if u won 3 times in a row then u have to bet the trigger to lose becoz this is what s happening at least most of the time i ve tested a lot so iam in position to confirm all these things ..
Title: Re: NEW SYSTEM: SINGLE DOZEN
Post by: jekhb76 on March 09, 2017, 01:10:40 PM
Hi Juice,

Can you please do a sample play of a session, so that we can understand what your tweak is and also your deep progression limit.
Thanx
Title: Re: NEW SYSTEM: SINGLE DOZEN
Post by: juice on March 09, 2017, 08:32:36 PM
Casinò: Berlin
Data: 18/02/2011
actual data from a section of 264 consecutive spins.

27 30 23 33 8 28 4 10 (14 20 20 22 15) 25 36 (9 10 2 5 5) 15 25 36 (9 10 2 5 5) 17 (5 10 2 2 1) 28 12 15 (5 9 6 7) 23 6 0 2 2 23 26 32 (12 5 3 10) 23 20 0 1 20 11 14 30 16 18 36 6 31 18 7 23 36 6 20 (11 12 1) 33 1 (27 26 33) 1 14 34 (19 24 15) 27 31 (11 1 6 4) 36 14 9 27 1 13 17 18 35 9 24 17 9 13 34 20 30 16 4 18 5 35 (1 12 7 6 11) 18 (25 27 29) 16 11 21 35 

Eddy, for me to post anything is a stretch as far as visual play, but the above is to illustrate what I like to look for.
Player preference of TREND VS. ANTI-TREND.
Before I give my opinion, this is just a tweak and all due respect to Pales.
His way is CHAMPION!!, but I personally find strength in clusters to repeat / reappear. I try to catch the tail end of a trend and try to make it my trigger objective number with the application of repeating single numbers or law of the thirds. It ( the cluster) can be 10 numbers back from the current play that I enter. It takes a lot more patience and deeper observation, but I feel better applying that rule. So in reality it breaks RULE #2, but played correctly and far enough back but no too far is the key.
It is very difficult to explain the dynamic in a post. 
Along with a score sheet, I separate each individual position played(attempts), into three columns, with there own divisor if needed.
So you have 3 columns, for 3 separate plays, and 3 different divisors.     
I play a best of 5 series per position and then apply the divisor. The divisor is simple and is usually 1/2 of the debt. for example, if the debt in position 2 = 5units, then the divisor is 2.5.
The beauty of the 3 separate conditions is that you are always playing into the 2/1 payout.
As hard as most people want to argue the logic, I also play with two complete score sheets, one for trend and one for anti-trend. When you have a hit rate as frequent as this bet,(any way you play it) it seems a shame not to hedge. I do the same on even money bets too. It takes some getting use to but, I feel that a proper score sheet is a work of art. Actually, mine belong in the LOUVRE.
So You can have two score sheets, each with three conditions, one played text book Pales rules #'s 1,2,3., and then use my little tweaks on a separate sheet. I do not play with blacks when I do this, quarters only, and YOU MUST, get into the mind set that your BANK is just that. It will have draw downs and surplus cash at any given time, so the score sheet is the bible and you just pick up where you left off session after session. Playing this way will bring you an easy 8- 12 units an hour, with little pressure. The 2/1 pay out is key in the one hole. I liken it to a parlay on the e.c.'s, and keeping each event separate, they all get a chance to taste the flavor of money marinating at 2/1.

                                                                            Good Skill~  The juice 

ps. I always use 100 times my unit size for session bank roll.

ie, 25$ units = 2500$ bank roll
     100$ = 10,000

Edit note....I just tried this with three levels of banking units, 10, 25, 50, and did not use a divisor and it did well.

Title: Re: NEW SYSTEM: SINGLE DOZEN
Post by: Bayes on March 10, 2017, 02:16:03 PM
Hi Palestis, thought I'd give your system a try but it was tough going. I got 3 back to back losses straight away.  :o The hit rate picked up eventually but it was a tough stretch. Results in csv format (L,M,H = Low, Middle, High dozens)-

OUTCOME, W/L
M
M
H
M
M
M,L
M
L
H
H
M
M
H,L
L
L
L,L
H
M
L
L
L
M,w
H
H
H,L
L
L,w
M
M
L,L
H
M
L,w
M
M
M
L,w
L
L
L
M
L
L
L
L
M
H
H
H
L
H,L
M
L
M
H
M
H,L
M,w
M
H
M
M
L,L
M
H
M,L
H,w
H
L
M,w
M
M
M
M,L
L
M
H
H
L
H
L,L
L
H,w
H,w
L
H
M
L
L
M
M,w
L,w

I admit I wasn't strictly following all the rules about when to not bet though.

If making 3 bets at a time, the probability of at least one win is 70%, which is pretty high, but when you compare this to the probability of winning a double-dozen bet (~65%), it isn't that much higher. And a double dozen bet can lose 12 times in a row.
Title: Re: NEW SYSTEM: SINGLE DOZEN
Post by: Reyth on March 10, 2017, 02:22:59 PM
12 times meaning (3 times)*4 but actually I can simulate 16 losses on a double dozen (3 times)*5.

The chances of 12 losses on a DZ+DZ bet is 99.9996334, meaning 0.000003656 or 1 in 273,523. 

I think we can be pretty confident in the 3 back to back loss limit (quite the testimony to Pales' bet construction & analysis skills) but should have a bankroll to accomodate that 4th loss, just in case?
Title: Re: NEW SYSTEM: SINGLE DOZEN
Post by: palestis on March 11, 2017, 12:00:18 AM
Hi Palestis, thought I'd give your system a try but it was tough going. I got 3 back to back losses straight away.  :o The hit rate picked up eventually but it was a tough stretch. Results in csv format (L,M,H = Low, Middle, High dozens)-

I admit I wasn't strictly following all the rules about when to not bet though.

If making 3 bets at a time, the probability of at least one win is 70%, which is pretty high, but when you compare this to the probability of winning a double-dozen bet (~65%), it isn't that much higher. And a double dozen bet can lose 12 times in a row.
I took a look at your results, and I made notes on the cases where back to back losses occurred.
A single 3 bet loss is not a problem. And also 2 back to back losses are not a problem either.
Wherever you had 2 back to back, losses and the single 3 back to back loss you encountered , it was a clear case where  betting would not have taken place.  Because either the trigger followed a 3+ number sequence  of the same dozen or 1 or more numbers in a trigger that came from a previous cycle. And these are red flags that indicate to pause and wait for new numbers.
We are supposed to use fresh numbers, after we finish betting the 3 spins after a trigger.
Even better we let some spins go idle. So we can enter a new cycle.
This system is closely related to the law of 2/3. But you don't want to follow a continuous flow. Because you stay in the same cycle where the law of 2/3 operates.
And if the cycle expires you will have problems following an expired cycle. (A dozen is 12 numbers).
That is y you need to keep getting into new cycles all the time.
By skipping streaks and avoiding use of previous numbers, you create a brand new cycle for the law of 2/3 to do its job.
The system was passed on to a friend overseas, and out of 41 sessions in a live roulette he won all 41.
( I can have Kav call him, if he doesn't mind, and he can verify that. He is close to where Kav resides). 
But he's playing it a little differently.
After a trigger is located, he waits for it to lose the 3 bets (virtually). Then he bets the next trigger.
It takes more time, but the results are solid. 
Also some other people I passed to system on, report great results.
But we have to follow the rules.
I understand your comments about the statistics.
But if the EC's appeared 50% of the time, the dozens 33.3% of the time  etc etc. we would not have any problem winning all the time. Unfortunately things don't happen that way.
A powerful trigger is supposed to make sure that what we are betting will show up within its statistical range.
The more frequently the system achieves that, the better the system.

Title: Re: NEW SYSTEM: SINGLE DOZEN
Post by: Reyth on March 11, 2017, 12:12:41 AM
But if the EC's appeared 50% of the time, the dozens 33.3% of the time  etc etc. we would not have any problem winning all the time. Unfortunately things don't happen that way.A powerful trigger is supposed to make sure that what we are betting will show up within its statistical range. The more frequently the system achieves that, the better the system.

(http://i63.tinypic.com/2aes6jd.jpg)
(http://[font=verdana, arial, helvetica, sans-serif]http://i63.tinypic.com/2aes6jd.jpg[/font])

This system reminds me of Occam's Razor:

https://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occam's_razor

His principle would seem to apply to roulette quite well!

Dang I kind of feel a bit guilty here because I came up with my own set of triggers based on "my own roulette heart"; 4 triggers for each dozen.

I think your principle of separating spins works very well.  After a win or loss the next spin starts fresh any trigger patterns.
Title: Re: NEW SYSTEM: SINGLE DOZEN
Post by: juice on March 11, 2017, 03:29:49 AM
Reyth, this play could be the final piece of the Talos mystery. It sure wins a lot . Just saying.
I actually like the testing of this with one press after a win. If you play perpetual and break every rule of waiting for fresh numbers to re enter a new play you will find that yes, you can lose more often, but, NOT THAT OFTEN.
Consider this....
2-2-1 / dozen 1=w, no waiting and play dozen 2 / =w, play 2 again= w, play dozen 1/ =w and so on. When the pattern finally  exstiguishes itself, when dozen 3 drops or the dominant side of the trigger runs, the damage by the player has already been done. This pattern and other winning perpetual patterns are very prevalent and will win in bursts of 3 to 5 at a time. Now if you do the simple math and consider that the single parlay attempt, after a 2/1 initial payoff , on a successful bet you are at NET 8 (eight), that's right, a NET 8 units. This is where the JUICE, is certainly worth the SQUEEZE!
Try it out you will see the power, and if you play the bet positions as a separate event as I mentioned in my last post, and play best of 5 series, it absolutely will not lose. QUITE THE OPPOSITE.
I see the play as a title fight, you have got to take a few on the chin so you can get inside and work the body and the head will eventually fall. IT IS A ONE UNIT BET THAT PAYS NET 8 UNITS, With a very high success rate! BOOM~
This might not be Talos choice of play...... But it should be, it don't get much flatter than this bet, for such a big payoff.

                                                Good Luck, juice.

Ps In this case variance is your friend .........

Title: Re: NEW SYSTEM: SINGLE DOZEN
Post by: Jake007 on March 11, 2017, 05:40:15 AM
Can someone please walk me through the progression on this?

1-1-2 and then 2-2-4

and thats it? No further progression?

I was doing great until I ended up betting 32-32-64 and thats not going to recoup all those previous bets.
Title: Re: NEW SYSTEM: SINGLE DOZEN
Post by: jekhb76 on March 11, 2017, 06:26:00 AM
Good morning Jake,
Let me try to explain what i do and i'm still riding the dozen wave quite well.

for this system to demolisch your bankroll you will need a very very bad session of more then 4 loses of 3 sets in a row or more. 3 set loses back to back doesn't hurt in the end, it's the 4+ loses that hurt, when you get a few of those in a short time, but that doesn't happen if you follow the rules.

I I use the same betting progression as you and i never needed to bed 32-32-64 units. i never had 4 back to back loses in a row with this system and i played 61 triggers up till now.

I use the following progression:

1-1-2
2-2-4
4-4-8
8-8-16
16-16-32
32-32-64
64-64-128
128-128-256

That's a 8 step progression and if you play it by the rules you only need a 3rd step max 4 if you're really unlucky.

What I do when i loses a session, i stay on the same progression level, that way I recoup right a way when i win the next round.

when it happens that i lose 3 sessions in a row, let's say the first is 1-1-2 then 2-2-4 and the n 4-4-8 i would have bet 28 units from the previous 3 losing rounds. I now need to bed 8-8-16 when i win i stay on the same level of 8-8-16 now when i win again, i'm even and i can start over with 1-1-2.

This is the furthest i got in all those hours of play. but i do not ignore the red flags, i just skip a trigger. it does take longer, but you will not be in trouble. if you adjust your bankroll to the following, and you play by the rules, you will never loses.

if you take your base bet of let's say 1u and you multiplay it by 100, ( bankroll 100u for 1u base bet) you will never reach the 100 bankroll.
5u - bankroll of 500u you're safe
10u - bankroll of 1000u you're safe

try it and let me know how it went Jake.
all the best. -Eddy
Title: Re: NEW SYSTEM: SINGLE DOZEN
Post by: Bayes on March 11, 2017, 08:46:46 AM
Thanks Palestis,

But if the EC's appeared 50% of the time, the dozens 33.3% of the time  etc etc. we would not have any problem winning all the time.

Yeah but actually I only gave those stats as an indicator of how bad things could potentially get, according to probabilities. If we take a negative 5 standard deviation event as the "limit" then a bet with win probability of 70% will at some point suffer 11 consecutive losses, which would take a 2-1 martingale type progression way beyond the house limits. Of course this ignores your advice about the skips and warning signs, but then probabilities in this game never take account of them anyway.

It was just a rough patch and I did make a profit eventually. I've found that tracking both dozens and columns and switching randomly between them seems to smooth the path somewhat, so far anyway. 
Title: Re: NEW SYSTEM: SINGLE DOZEN
Post by: palestis on March 11, 2017, 03:51:43 PM

Well,  that is the idea of testing as many spins as possible and never stop testing.
If theoretically 11 consecutive losses can occur, I would assume that 3 and 4 back to back losses should appear somewhat more frequently. That's 1/3 to half the way to a catastrophe.  But after thousands and thousands of test spins it doesn't happen.
And if it  looks like it is going to happen, after you have 2 back to back losses, it always gives the warning signals. So you can stop on time, until the dozen appearance mix seems more balanced.
Also the starting progression doesn't have to be 1-1-2. It could be 1-1-1.5. Like $10-10- 15.
Instead of 10-10-20. Also after 2 back to back losses, you don't have to jump into  a Martingale type progression, where any hit at any point in the progression will recover all previous losses plus make a profit.
As triggers form very fast , you can scale back the progression and restart with a small increase in the next trigger, instead of a Martingale increase. In  the next 1-2  triggers recovery should be reached. Something that's more appropriate when using high value chips like $25's, and $100,s.
When you play with small chips like in an online casino, then even with Martingale you still can't suffer a material loss even if you run into 5 or more back to back losses.
It's a matter of session B/R to minimum chip ratio.
And yes involving columns in the system, is another good idea, to diversify the play.
And whenever the target dozen dissects the target column, you can play the 4 numbers common to both. But that requires a separate research. 

As you diversify, it would take  many things to go wrong simultaneously to end up losing.
That's y they say, don't put your eggs in one basket. There must be some true to it.
Title: Re: NEW SYSTEM: SINGLE DOZEN
Post by: Jake007 on March 11, 2017, 05:23:23 PM

I am doing pretty good sticking with a 1-1-2, then 2-2-4 progression. If it fails beyond that its easily recoverable.

I need help on clarification of the "avoid betting" rules...

Quote
1. If the same dozen appears repeatedly immediately preceding the trigger. (it's a sign of anomaly that can affect the rest of the dozens).

Isnt this open to interpretation? I have to go with my gut feeling here. If I see X dozen appearing approx 5 or more times in the last 10 spins I will flush it out with more spins.
------------------------------------------

Quote
2. If the playable target dozen ( Y), has appeared more than 3+ times immediately prior to the trigger. (meaning it has appeared enough times already and runs the risk to disappear when you begin betting it  3 times after the trigger).

Also open to interpretation? If I see Y dozen has appeared even 2 times prior to trigger I flush it out with more spins.
------------------------------------------

Quote
3. If the first 2 bets after the trigger result in XX (same dozen as the majority dozen in the trigger, you stop and only lose 2 bets). Easily recoverable in the next trigger

This one I just dont understand.
Title: Re: NEW SYSTEM: SINGLE DOZEN
Post by: Jake007 on March 11, 2017, 05:29:27 PM
I guess I am also confused on the progression.

As I understand it, if I lose the round of three bets using 1-1-2, my next round would be 2-2-4. Is that correct?

OR...

If I win during the 1-1-2 progression, my next round is 2-2-4? Then 4-4-8? and so on until I lose?
Title: Re: NEW SYSTEM: SINGLE DOZEN
Post by: jekhb76 on March 11, 2017, 06:46:53 PM
No Jake, let me try to explain the progression part.

When you have a trigger, let's say XXY D1 D1 D3
then your progression starts right away, becaue you arw placing bets from the beginning.
In this example you place 1 unit on the D3.
if you lose that bet, let's say D2 shows then you're next bet is also 1 unit. If you lose the 3e round, let's say 3rd spin is also D2 then you're 3rd bet is then 1.5 or 2 units. by then you have bet 1 round of 3 bets. 1-1-2 (1.5) then you start again waiting for the next trigger shows up. when you now start betting then you're first bet is 2. so you just follow the sequence 1-1-2 (1.5) 2-2-4  etc. So to make things clear, the first bet you make is the first bet in the progression. Hope this helps.
Title: Re: NEW SYSTEM: SINGLE DOZEN
Post by: Jake007 on March 11, 2017, 07:39:55 PM
OK Thank You for explaining! I have been doing it all wrong. When an X appeared I would do the next 3 bets on X or less if it hit. I would then spin to find the next X to bet on using 2-2-4.

It worked pretty good actually :) capping two sets of progressions.

Your explanation will take longer, but looks far safer. Thanks again for guiding.
Title: Re: NEW SYSTEM: SINGLE DOZEN
Post by: Rinad on March 12, 2017, 02:05:41 AM


 this single dz is great because of the selection,triggers,new batch of numbers each time.

I played it yesturday on a air ball roulette combined with the one number system and had fun with.
because that small edge of not losing a dz as often as if one was to just pick one randomly it can bring a lot of $$$ in your pockets. but you have to be patient and not be too quick to make-up for losing a couple of triggers.
this could be anyone'worst enemy.
you begin playing, wins often, get a superman complex, and then all of a sudden start losing. so instead of being picky like you were before about your triggers, you start to "compromise a little" because the pain of losing what you had just won is right here. so beware of that.

I lost 3 back to back once yesturday. I was debating aboucriss[/size][size=78%]t let in it go,take a loss, or go for the "jugular" and do a 4th level. I decided to go for it, but this time I would wait for ultimate timing.[/size]
I would wait for a colum and a dz to "-cross at the same time" adding value to my selection before making a biger bet. in other words I would need 2 triggers instead of just 1.
I did and won the bet at the first spin.

I  also added 2 split bets where the colum and dozen crossroad.
in other words covered those 4 numbers. adding inside numbers to your dozen that you play is also a way to play a progression without having to raise the dozen bet too high. be creating, you can play the whole system flat bet and just go up on inside numbers,quads,splits,ect... the sky is the limit.
just something to consider if betting big bets is not your cup of tea. it is not mine, but somehow adding inside bets seem easier on the blood pressure . great sharing on this forum, you are all great.
Title: Re: NEW SYSTEM: SINGLE DOZEN
Post by: palestis on March 12, 2017, 02:09:44 AM
Jake,

Yes the 1-1-2 or 1-1-1.5 (both  legitimate progressions for dozens, and it is a personal choice)  are the beginning of the bets. As long as you win in one of those 3 spins, you still start with 1-1-2 again. You only go to 2-2-4 if you lost the 1-1-2. But you always come back to the basic bet 1-1-2 as long as you win or you just recovered from a loss
That is your base bet. You only go to the next progression increase if you lose the 3 bets round.

About the "avoiding bets" issue:
 Yes it is open to interpretation. I said if there is a consecutive predominant dozen just before the trigger is best to avoid betting after the trigger.
But as  you said if one dozen has appeared 5 more times in the last 10 spins (prior to the trigger), then  by all means avoid betting. It doesn't have to follow the rules exactly as I mentioned it.
You can certainly add your own ideas. If something looks unusual, before the trigger the rule of thumb is to avoid betting. Triggers form very fast. So by waiting for a few more spins to bypass an unusual event, won't take much of your time. But it can make a big difference in certainty.

About the XX that you don't understand here is an example:
 We have 22-24-5. The XXY is 221. The target dozen is the first dozen.
But after you bet the first dozen 2 times  and 16-20 came up, you stop right there. Because now you have the 2nd dozen that appeared 4 times in 5 spins. Which brings you back to the first rule.
The only thing you can't avoid is the fact that  you lost the 2 spins.
This rule saves you from possibly losing the 3rd spin. Which is the most damaging out of the 3 spins.
You can use the units saved towards the next trigger.
Another:  you have 1-15-8. You play the 2nd dozen 3 bets. If in the first 2 bets 4-9 shows up you stop and only lost 2 units. No need to risk 2 more units.
Title: Re: NEW SYSTEM: SINGLE DOZEN
Post by: Reyth on March 12, 2017, 02:11:07 AM
Wow, great idea Rinad about adding inside numbers to reduce cost!
Title: Re: NEW SYSTEM: SINGLE DOZEN
Post by: Rinad on March 12, 2017, 02:44:50 AM


  thanks Reyth and playing inside bets can be done as well with outside bets on any systems. maybe Mr Talos does it also with his method in order to reduce high bets. I thinks creating "more opportunities" to win when coming up with a great system is adding value. like playing video poker, holding the 2 cards that gives you more outs.

I even like to play a dozen/ds combo, placing less units on the ds then on a dozen, even less on a quad,ect... sure you give up returns on your big dozen bet if none of the inside bets dont hit, but they sure act like "super heroes coming to your rescue" in time of desparate times. creating opportunity bets can be your "whistle when the titanic is sinking".
thanks for sharing all your hard work with every one. truly enjoy.
Title: Re: NEW SYSTEM: SINGLE DOZEN
Post by: Jake007 on March 12, 2017, 03:59:56 AM
palestis it makes perfect sense now regarding the XX, thank you!

Your whole system is adaptable. I was playing entirely different at first and did quite well.
Title: Re: NEW SYSTEM: SINGLE DOZEN
Post by: TERMINATOR on March 12, 2017, 07:01:31 AM
Hello everyone. I created an Excel Document to keep track of the Dozens for palestis's Single Dozen Strategy (Single Dozen Tracker), and it adds the units won or lost at the end. Feel free to use it. Just copy and paste roulette spins (or enter them manually) under the SPIN category. And the Dozen Category will automatically be displayed to the right of each number (LG, MG and HG). Under the W/L category, enter how much you won or lost from each bet, and it will automatically be totaled as you progress.

The Second Document (Game #1) is my first game playing this strategy, copying actual spins from a real casino. I do not know if I am playing this correctly, because I reached a 4th stage progression...TWICE! Ouch! I still ended up with a profit of 18 units, though.

I would appreciate it if palestis (or anyone else) can take a look at it and give me feedback. I wrote down all my decision each step of the way, to make it easier to follow what I did and why.

The asterisks (*) under the "Bet" column indicates which Dozen from the trigger I bet on.

Thanks for sharing this great Strategy, palestis.  And if anyone wants to improve the Excel document I created, feel free to do so. I am just learning Excel and did the best I could.

Title: Re: NEW SYSTEM: SINGLE DOZEN
Post by: Bayes on March 12, 2017, 11:53:25 AM
By coincidence, I also made a little tracker for Palestis' system. Actually it's more of a generic tracker for 2-1 bets, because I don't like to make software too system specific. It doesn't update the bankroll like Terminator's excel sheet but you can add wins and losses for Doz/Col by clicking the relevant buttons given separately under the respective marquees. Two csv files are generated (one for Doz and one for Col) so you can import the results into a spreadsheet after a session and inspect them.

(http://i68.tinypic.com/2zhp4ki.png)

Title: Re: NEW SYSTEM: SINGLE DOZEN
Post by: TERMINATOR on March 12, 2017, 12:49:03 PM
Nice Tracker, Bayes. I wanted to add a "Column" to each number in my tracker also, (so we could know when they criss-crossed to place bets on 2 Splits), but my programming skills are not that good, and I could not figure out how to do that. I like how yours is able to tell us when a Dozen and Column intersect.
Title: Re: NEW SYSTEM: SINGLE DOZEN
Post by: palestis on March 12, 2017, 03:19:10 PM
Terminator.
That was good work
I took the numbers you had in the EXCELL sheet and processed them manually (I used to be in the computer hardware business, but when it comes to programming I am dumb)
Though these numbers in the sample seem, (wherever they came from),  more like numbers from hell,  nevertheless I went ahead and processed them.
I found a case of 2 back to back losses, 1 case of 4 back to back losses and 1 case of 3 back to back losses.
When I test I ignore the red flags, so that I can test as many numbers as possible.
Then I go back and examine the situations where many back to back losses occurred and try to figure out what went wrong.
In the 2 back to back case it is obvious that it would've been avoided. You will see 6,3,6,6, Not only the 1st dozen was repeated 4 times in a row, it also involved 6,6,6 in 4 spins. You can't miss this red flag.
Then in the 4 back to back case, after the first trigger loss we see, 22,24,14,22, then further down we see 17,21,21,17,14. Again the 2nd dozen repeated, and the same numbers of the same dozen repeated. You can't miss such a weird sequence.
And in the case of the 3 back to back losses, again it is very obvious that something looks weird. 35,32,26,2,9,8,6. Again an obvious red flag that would avoid any betting.
I understand that some of the winning triggers came after the presence of the red flags and still won.
Where in actual play they would've been missed opportunities.
But I'd rather miss some winning opportunities than risk a devastating loss coming from repeated back to back losses.
I long term tests I found that by avoiding those red flags, you get solid results even if you inadvertently miss some winning opportunities.
I can't come up with an explanation, other the fact that you take advantage of the law of the 2/3rds,
by making sure you are almost always in a new cycle where most likely the law of the 2/3rds will always be active.
This law has been discussed in a post in the past, but the problem is it's difficult to pinpoint a specific cycle. 
Rather than trying to follow the cycle the roulette gives you, in this system you construct your own cycle. By avoiding and jumping and interrupting the roulette's flow.

Title: Re: NEW SYSTEM: SINGLE DOZEN
Post by: TERMINATOR on March 12, 2017, 04:51:11 PM
Thank you for taking the time to check my game, palestis. I went through your analysis and learned a lot.

Our triggers in both our games did not line up, however. For example, if we look at your attached sheet, the very first 3 numbers (23,35,23) you have as a trigger. However, I avoided this trigger because the PREVIOUS betting round had a #23 in it.

But I ALSO avoided the trigger immediately BEFORE the "23,35,23" trigger, because THAT trigger (5,19,11) had the #19 from the previous betting sequence, which was "11,19,23."

To Clarify, if there is a betting sequence, and the next trigger repeats a number from the last betting sequence, we skip that trigger and go onto the next trigger. I understand that. But if that SECOND trigger also repeats a number from the last betting sequence, do we skip that trigger also? Or do we just skip the first trigger?

Anyway, I still learned a lot from your detailed analysis. Thank you so much for helping me out.
Title: Re: NEW SYSTEM: SINGLE DOZEN
Post by: palestis on March 13, 2017, 02:02:43 AM
Oh I see.
 Somehow I missed a few numbers from the beginning of your sheet.  Accidentally I probably scrolled down a little
Actually a single number,  whether it was used as part of a previous trigger, or was a part of the betting sequence, is not much of a risk situation as long as all other conditions are fine.
It is the consecutive appearance of one dozen, or otherwise its heavy presence in the previous spins, preceding the trigger that causes most of the problems, leading to back to back losses.
When you encounter 3+ back to back losses, this situation is always the culprit.
But it is easily recognized and therefore avoided.
Many other  systems do not offer such obvious warning signals, until it's too late.

Title: Re: NEW SYSTEM: SINGLE DOZEN
Post by: TERMINATOR on March 13, 2017, 03:25:37 AM
Thanks for clearing that up, palestis. It makes playing your system much easier, and I get to make more frequent bets, without having to worry about looking at individual numbers. For some reason, I feel comfortable playing your system, whereas most other systems I've tried can be tense and stressful at times.

Thanks again for sharing!
Title: Re: NEW SYSTEM: SINGLE DOZEN
Post by: TERMINATOR on March 13, 2017, 03:30:19 AM
Oh, and can anyone clarify what a "virtual lost trigger" means, as discussed in this thread? My understanding is that after a valid trigger, we DO NOT BET during the next betting sequence. We WAIT for a LOSS (without risking real money). THEN, after that loss, we DO bet for real after the next trigger.

Is this correct?
Title: Re: NEW SYSTEM: SINGLE DOZEN
Post by: palestis on March 13, 2017, 02:15:00 PM
Yes that's what it is.
If we have 15-21-4,  we are supposed to bet the 1st dozen.
But if we wait until something like 32,14,25 shows up, it's a loss. (but only virtual).
Then the very next time you see 4-10-22 for example, you bet the 2nd dozen with actual chips.
It takes a little time,  but the certainty increases. (recommended for high value chip bets).
A second type of virtual losses is within the same trigger.
If we see 15-21-4 we can wait to lose the first or two steps virtually, then bet 3 steps after that actually.
The 3 step progression becomes a 5 step progression, but only at the cost of 3 steps. because the first 2 steps were lost virtually.
Example. 15-21-4. Then 32-14-25-5. The 32 and 14 is a virtual loss. if we actually bet after that we hit the 5 with the second bet.
The virtual loss concept can be adapted to each player's individual playing style. It doesn't have to follow exact standards.  The more patience you are willing to endure, the more the certainty turns on your side. It's that simple.
Title: Re: NEW SYSTEM: SINGLE DOZEN
Post by: TERMINATOR on March 13, 2017, 08:41:26 PM
Thank you, this seems like a valuable tool, especially if the progressions are getting high because of bad spins. It's a good way to wait for the bad streak to do less harm.

I really like the idea of the virtual losses in the SAME TRIGGER. Less waiting time. Smart!
Title: Re: NEW SYSTEM: SINGLE DOZEN
Post by: kav on March 13, 2017, 10:13:51 PM
With all due respect Palestis,
The problem in waiting for a losing attack that you might miss many winning attacks in between. Sometimes the attacks you miss would produce more profits that the losses of the lost attack.
Roulette is so perfectly balanced at its heart that you can't trick it like that. All the benefit of an extreme event will be countered by the missed opportunities for wins.
Title: Re: NEW SYSTEM: SINGLE DOZEN
Post by: palestis on March 14, 2017, 03:23:40 AM
Yes I am very well aware of the concept of "missed winning opportunities".
 And took it into account, before I opted for the virtual loss strategy as a must for every system.
It's not the ROULETTE ODDS that concerns me, it is my own odds of winning vs. losing as an individual in every betting attempt. .
The roulette is nothing more than a tool that stimulates and contests my own odds.
It's not really a matter of guessing the roulette's spins. It a matter of being aware of my own frequency of successful hits within a range of intended bets. And that frequency has been worked out and it is a known variable, after extensive and long term tests. Every player can find his own odds. depending on his system.
And that range depends on the system, or better the quantity of numbers involved in the betting.
And it can be computed with remarkably great accuracy. Long range testing is the way to do it.
Though winning opportunities are very welcome when they happen, however you have to be willing to take a much bigger risk going thru an extended progression with possible catastrophic consequences.
And the fact that  that most roulette players eventually lose, it is because they are trying to take advantage of every opportunity they can get their hands on.
Virtual losses bypass actual losses at the beginning of the betting range, leaving more certain winning opportunities in a much shorter betting range, and with a much lesser financial risk. 
Title: Re: NEW SYSTEM: SINGLE DOZEN
Post by: kav on March 14, 2017, 03:28:31 AM
Thanks for your reply, but the question is simple and it is specific to this system:
If while waiting for your loss you lose 6 winning opportunities, is it still a good idea?
How do you know that you wont lose 6 winning opportunities while waiting for a loss?
Title: Re: NEW SYSTEM: SINGLE DOZEN
Post by: palestis on March 14, 2017, 04:16:00 AM
That's the thing.
You don't know in advance if you missed several winning opportunities, while waiting for the virtual loss.
But what you also don't know, is if by betting perpetually to seize those winning opportunities,
you might lose a long series of bets, with increased progression, where recovery from it will be almost impossible or at least a huge task in itself.  The psychological let down supersedes the financial loss.
To make my point more understood, when I test a system, I compare results of betting all the progression steps, to the results of betting selective shorter spans of the progression.
And the results vary widely in favor of certainty. 
You can't compromise CERTAINTY for the sake of missed opportunity.
One might say that you bet lesser times compared to perpetual betting. And that eventually equal number of selective bets will have the same results with equal numbers of perpetual bets.
That is definitely not true.
Those selective bets are backed by a higher degree of certainty.
How can they have the same results with endless betting?

Title: Re: NEW SYSTEM: SINGLE DOZEN
Post by: kav on March 14, 2017, 04:29:52 AM
Let's say that while betting virtually you see (many) 12 winning opportunities go by and then you see a virtual loss.
The problem with the many missed wins is not only financial. Now that you saw so many good virtual spins it is even more possible to have a loss back to back, because the spins before the virtual loss were so favorable. So still, you can't be sure the next attack will be a win.
Title: Re: NEW SYSTEM: SINGLE DOZEN
Post by: palestis on March 14, 2017, 05:56:39 AM
Well Kav we have to be realistic when dealing with systems.
12 missed opportunities strengthens your argument, for the argument's sake, but it highly unlikely that this will ever happen. At least in this particular system.
Sure if you see something like this happen, it's very likely that  when you start betting you will run into a long overdue loss.
 But this scenario is outside any realistic presumptions.
When you test a system, the results will show how many back to back wins are possible. As well as how many back to back losses. This is a vital part of  testing a system.
In this particular system the usual average of consecutive wins is about 3. Never 12 and rarely 6.
Then it is interrupted by a single loss and more rarely by 2 back to back losses.  Not a serious problem.
But if you have a system that requires betting 30 numbers, most likely you will have 10 and 15 consecutive wins very frequently. But all it takes is 3 losses to make up for a large number of wins.
There is a very close relationship of the number of virtual losses that you can employ to the number of
the average consecutive wins observed during testing as well as the number of possible consecutive losses. All you have to do is try to balance everything so that the risk is minimum.
If in this system frequent 12 consecutive wins were possible, and consecutive losses  limited to 3, then this could very well be the holly grail.
Realistically speaking the average winning opps. you have to forgo is about 3. That's the average for this system. So the most winning opps. you will miss is 3 on average.
A virtual loss almost guarantees that the in one of the next 2 triggers you will have hit.
On the other hand if you have $5000 B/R and play with $5 chip minimum, by all means there is no need to wait for anything. You can bet perpetually without fear of losing. There are no back to back losses that can happen to deplete such a high B/R.

Title: Re: NEW SYSTEM: SINGLE DOZEN
Post by: Bayes on March 14, 2017, 08:58:52 AM
The problem with the many missed wins is not only financial. Now that you saw so many good virtual spins it is even more possible to have a loss back to back, because the spins before the virtual loss were so favorable.

Since deviations (positive and negative) very often come in clumps the danger of using virtual losses is that in a way you're seeking out losing streaks. Every long losing streak begins with a shorter one. I do sometimes wait for a VL or two but just because it mixes things up a bit (there's no evidence that it increases the certainty of a win). The VL's amount to a different bet selection, and if you stick rigidly with one selection it's inevitable that  you'll enounter its extremes of variance. "Diversification" reduces variance.

Palestis, you mentioned that the system is based on the law of the third. Could you explain how? Thanks.
Title: Re: NEW SYSTEM: SINGLE DOZEN
Post by: Bayes on March 14, 2017, 11:17:31 AM
Palestis, regarding the no-bet situations:

Quote
Situations where you avoid betting, and wait for things to become more normal
1. If the same dozen appears repeatedly immediately preceding the trigger. (it's a sign of anomaly that can affect the rest of the dozens).
2. If the playable target dozen ( Y), has appeared more than 3+ times immediately prior to the trigger. (meaning it has appeared enough times already and runs the risk to disappear when you begin betting it  3 times after the trigger).
3. If the first 2 bets after the trigger result in XX (same dozen as the majority dozen in the trigger, you stop and only lose 2 bets). Easily recoverable in the next trigger
4. if there is more than one 0 in the numbers preceding the trigger. (0's tend to come in packs).

Don't rules 1 & 2 collapse into one? namely : "Don't bet if any dozen appears more than 3+ times prior to the trigger".

The same dozen could be the playable target dozen (rule 2), or not. In either case, it signals a no-bet. Also could you be more precise regarding rule 4? For how many spins do we look back for 0's?

I need this information because I'm planning to add more code to the tracker which automatically adds the w/L registry and signals a no-bet if any of the above rules apply, so I need definite numbers. Currently it's a bit of a headache keeping track of both Doz/Col and adding the w/L. Also I'm planning to add another bet for the sector dozens, so there will be 3 bet selections to keep track of.
Title: Re: NEW SYSTEM: SINGLE DOZEN
Post by: Reyth on March 14, 2017, 01:54:51 PM
On the other hand if you have $5000 B/R and play with $5 chip minimum, by all means there is no need to wait for anything. You can bet perpetually without fear of losing. There are no back to back losses that can happen to deplete such a high B/R.

LOL.  I can go in with WHEYMOAR than only 1000 units!  How is 20000?
Title: Re: NEW SYSTEM: SINGLE DOZEN
Post by: Jesper on March 14, 2017, 02:06:41 PM
1000 times the bank to bet unit is never sure. Every with 10 Euro in the pocket could never lose?

I got a real run from hell, start with 1 cent and dive down 40000 units until I got a win at 20000 units.
Playing cents do not say small bets but lasting!
Title: Re: NEW SYSTEM: SINGLE DOZEN
Post by: Rinad on March 14, 2017, 02:27:48 PM


  just my 2 cents,

 the less exposure to the HE,  the better off. dont stay longer in the "shark infested water" then you have to.
 play a higher unit, limited spins, and GET OUT!!!!.
  plus your hourly wage is so much greater. the casino knows that with extended period of plays they could hurt you.
 dont give them that chance.  now if you have 20.000 $ BR, by all means play black chips and take 5 of them out of the casino each day and go enjoy life.  after all it is why a good system was created. but again, you need to walk around with at least 2k in your poket to play at that level. (if not more).

Palesti's system is working by not continiously playing all the spins that roulette is throwing at you.
and it does make a difference in your overhall "spin history" because you play on your terms, not theirs.
you dont even have to play the mini series all on one table. it does not matter. the reason why you win is because you have a greater chance to "hitting" that dz that you picked then the ODDS dictate.
that is precisely why you have less back to back losses.
Title: Re: NEW SYSTEM: SINGLE DOZEN
Post by: Reyth on March 14, 2017, 03:13:43 PM
My tests ultimately now agree with Bayes.  Hit and run cannot avoid the black swan because the ratio of amount won:spins is always the same. 

I however agree that it "breaks things up" and Pales' separation of triggers to me makes a great deal of sense; at least if the black swan is going to get me, it will have to do it on 14 separate & successive occasions because otherwise I will coup large.
Title: Re: NEW SYSTEM: SINGLE DOZEN
Post by: Rinad on March 14, 2017, 05:07:13 PM


 see Reyth, the black swan can follow you, and can even get into the water following you. the HE is more like a shark.  so if you get out of the water soon enough he will have to bite the other guy. and after it does,you can go back into the water until his digestion is over. ;)
Title: Re: NEW SYSTEM: SINGLE DOZEN
Post by: Reyth on March 14, 2017, 05:16:20 PM

TRIVIA TIME!

(https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/236x/41/9f/61/419f61f113820d4408c57093a448337f.jpg)

(http://i65.tinypic.com/2cs7xms.jpg)

Psssst, there is more than one shark!

Title: Re: NEW SYSTEM: SINGLE DOZEN
Post by: petespin on March 14, 2017, 07:33:59 PM
i ll try to direct u at the right side with this system , after a lot of testing i conclude that.. the most important thing is in which spin [1,2,3] u won , when u win of course , after all i also count the lost triggers and exploit these scenarios ,i ll give an example as how i bet , lets say i ve won 3 triggers in a row at the very first spin , ... guess what am doing next ... i bet the other 2 dozens instead of that the trigger shows! that way minimize the odds to have a lost trigger , i do the same with all scenarios like.. counting how many triggers have won at 2nd spin,or at third spin etc...  the most basic factor is to choose the scorebord that trigger-s already lose and then start betting . 
Title: Re: NEW SYSTEM: SINGLE DOZEN
Post by: scepticus on March 14, 2017, 08:17:04 PM

I think it is clear that what Palestis proposes is to limit his losses to an acceptable amount.If he  has deduced that a particular dozen will win within , say , ten spins then if he waits for ,say, 6 spins  and it has not won then it is reasonable for him to think it will win within the next 4 spins and so starts betting it.
He is not concerned if he misses wins while waiting because he has not lost any money . He merely moves to another table and waits for an opportunity - or has  tracked a few tables waiting for an opportunity at any of them.
By virtual betting he has also avoided  the number of EXPECTED zeros.
Due to the variability of winning  dozens  it can be argued that his winning opportunities has not lessened because of prior wins. Clumps do happen . If we only knew WHEN  !
Title: Re: NEW SYSTEM: SINGLE DOZEN
Post by: Rinad on March 14, 2017, 11:08:42 PM
i ll try to direct u at the right side with this system , after a lot of testing i conclude that.. the most important thing is in which spin [1,2,3] u won , when u win of course , after all i also count the lost triggers and exploit these scenarios ,i ll give an example as how i bet , lets say i ve won 3 triggers in a row at the very first spin , ... guess what am doing next ... i bet the other 2 dozens instead of that the trigger shows! that way minimize the odds to have a lost trigger , i do the same with all scenarios like.. counting how many triggers have won at 2nd spin,or at third spin etc...  the most basic factor is to choose the scorebord that trigger-s already lose and then start betting .
I think what you are saying is close to what I experimented with. you are keeping track of every wins and losses in colums of 3, then you see which leg of the progression you have won or lost ?
If you could explain it a little more so it is clear, maybe with a example?  thx.
Title: Re: NEW SYSTEM: SINGLE DOZEN
Post by: Reyth on March 15, 2017, 12:28:25 AM
Here is my version.  Its the only way that makes sense to me:

XYZ
XXY/XYX ==>Z
XXZ/XZX ==>Y
YYX/YXY ==>Z
YYZ/YZY ==>X
ZZX/ZXZ ==>Y
ZZY/ZYZ ==>X

XYZ,XZY,YXZ,YZX,ZXY,ZYX all equal NO BET.

Because I am always betting the missing Dozen thats at least 4 back, I don't have to worry about my triggers getting "messed up" by close repeats.

XXX,YYY and ZZZ are great setups that are kind of like "narrow sideways channels" in trading.  We just wait for the break and bet the missing Dozen.  The longer the streak, the greater the chances of us getting a hit.  Anything over 3 and I would even advocate betting extra during those times (x1.5 or x2).

The only thing that I think messes us up is if a 0 hits while we are betting.  I think its most wise to immediately stop betting, take the loss and make it up on the next trigger.  The reason is because the 0 has already taken a full 33% of our odds away from us by showing up during a bet sequence. 

Conversely however, if a zero shows up while we are awaiting a trigger, this makes our bet selection even stronger and I would even advocate betting extra (x1.5 or x2) in those occasions:

XZ0Z <=== now Y has even MORE chance to hit for us in a sequence of 7.

Gosh I feel like a traitor for posting this but I am sorry its just how I feel. :'(

(http://cdn.quotesgram.com/small/33/16/181129749-a-traitor-among-us.jpg)

I just made a quick 50 units betting the following progression:

1 1 2
2 2 4
4 4 8
etc

Stay on the same level if not at profit and back to level 1 when at par/profit.  You can also drop down or up  a level as you gain hits if necessary.

I just received the following sequence and doubled my bet for Z:

YYYYYYX

My bet hit (YYYYYYXZ) and profit is now +116.

I'll try to keep everything in this one post but I can move this to my own thread if you guys like. :D

+152
+218
+269
Title: Re: NEW SYSTEM: SINGLE DOZEN
Post by: palestis on March 15, 2017, 02:22:24 AM
Palestis, regarding the no-bet situations:

Quote
Situations where you avoid betting, and wait for things to become more normal
1. If the same dozen appears repeatedly immediately preceding the trigger. (it's a sign of anomaly that can affect the rest of the dozens).
2. If the playable target dozen ( Y), has appeared more than 3+ times immediately prior to the trigger. (meaning it has appeared enough times already and runs the risk to disappear when you begin betting it  3 times after the trigger).
3. If the first 2 bets after the trigger result in XX (same dozen as the majority dozen in the trigger, you stop and only lose 2 bets). Easily recoverable in the next trigger
4. if there is more than one 0 in the numbers preceding the trigger. (0's tend to come in packs).

Don't rules 1 & 2 collapse into one? namely : "Don't bet if any dozen appears more than 3+ times prior to the trigger".

The same dozen could be the playable target dozen (rule 2), or not. In either case, it signals a no-bet. Also could you be more precise regarding rule 4? For how many spins do we look back for 0's?

I need this information because I'm planning to add more code to the tracker which automatically adds the w/L registry and signals a no-bet if any of the above rules apply, so I need definite numbers. Currently it's a bit of a headache keeping track of both Doz/Col and adding the w/L. Also I'm planning to add another bet for the sector dozens, so there will be 3 bet selections to keep track of.
Maybe an example will show what I mean. A. 15-20-17-25-31-8. The XXY is 331. I would rather avoid betting because there is 222 just before the trigger.
B. 4-8-11-13-5    or  4-8-11-25- 32-7. In both situations the target dozen is the 1st.
But it already appeared enough times already. Best to skip this trigger
So I guess you are right. Both rules collapse into one. It's just that in the B case it is a much stronger reason to avoid any bets.
As far as the presence of any 0 or 0's prior to the trigger, I would say up to about 2-3 numbers up.
Like 25-0-5-9-14. We don't have to go up the numbers very far.
In general if prior to the trigger things look unusually strange or imbalanced wait for a few more spins or move on to another roulette.
I understand that to code the system for computerized testing, you have to have predetermined instructions.
In actual play in a live casino, you have the opportunity to see in front of you the whole picture before you make a decision to bet.
So even if the situation doesn't fall exactly under these rules, if for some reason you feel uncomfortable with what you are seeing, it doesn't hurt to wait a few more minutes.
With many roulettes around and triggers forming very fast, you have the luxury to pick and chose when  you want to play. 
The best and easiest way to test it, is the way I do it manually.
I test ignoring any rules. Betting every trigger that forms.
Then I go back and examine all the situations where 3 or more back to back losses occurred. And investigate if the results were due to the violations of the rules.
And I also examine results where there are shorter back to back losses like 2, interrupted by a single win. LL-W-LL-W-LL-W-LL-W  is just as bad as a longer consecutive  loss situation. But I find that to be far more rare than a longer consecutive loss appearing between longer intervals.

Title: Re: NEW SYSTEM: SINGLE DOZEN
Post by: TERMINATOR on March 15, 2017, 07:35:41 AM
Reyth, that is an interesting modification. Hmmm. Palestis, what do you make of that? It does seem more likely that a Z dozen would have a better chance of appearing after an XXY appear just before it. Hmmm. I'll see how it compares to my other recorded results, by playing Reyth's suggestion next to the original version.

And don't feel like a traitor, Reyth, we are here to share ideas and make possible improvements. I'm sure Palestis won't mind, if it helps us win more!

Speaking of which, I have made a change in the way I play also. (Oh no, another traitor!) I've been able to Quadruple my profits compared to your original strategy, Palestis, in your first post, playing within the SAME amount of spins! It's a lot more involved, and you might need to keep track on a piece of paper or the computer, but it is worth it!

This is what I added. I've been playing the Dozens, just as you suggest. And every time the "Columns" crisscross, I always put a 1 unit chip on 1 Split, and another unit on the other Split (4 numbers total). This was sort of suggested in this thread, but I do it in ADDITION to the regular bets. I always keep it at 1 unit chips all the time on the splits (no matter the stage of the progression).

But what I have ALSO been doing is the following. I've been playing the COLUMNS at the same time I play the DOZENS, using your same rules for the Single Dozen. AND I have also been placing one chip each on the 2 splits every time the Dozens intersect with the Columns.

This eliminates a lot of the waiting time when going through triggers. When the Dozens and Columns ARE played at the same time, AND they intersect,  STILL only lay 2 chips on the Splits (I do not increase those bets).

Oh, and I have IMPROVED the Excel sheet I created earlier. It will keep track of both the Dozens and Columns (to make it easier to know when to place those split bets, OR play Dozens and Columns at the same time). It will also keep a running total win/loss on the Dozens, Columns and Split Bets.

I also included an example of my most recent game using this document, to illustrate how to use it. Hopefully it's self explanatory. But if you have any questions on how to use it, just ask!

Title: Re: NEW SYSTEM: SINGLE DOZEN
Post by: Reyth on March 15, 2017, 09:58:31 AM
Yo Term, don't forget Bayes is hard at work at the WHEEL DOZENS as well!

They are:

32-15-19-4-21-2-25-17-34-6-27-13
36-11-30-8-23-10-5-24-16-33-1-20
14-13-9-22-18-29-7-28-12-35-3-26

And so like if we ONLY bet:

1) Dozens intersect
2) Columns intersect
3) Wheel intersect

Hopefully we get a higher hit rate?

Or maybe we can bet any combination of 2 from the 1,2,3 set...

Title: Re: NEW SYSTEM: SINGLE DOZEN
Post by: dobbelsteen on March 15, 2017, 10:17:57 AM
random sequence of the dozens  :  1-3-3-2-1-3
Now I bet one unit on dozen 2 and 3 . After a no-hit I bet 3 units on3 dozen 1 and 2. The risk is a loss on 3^8 spins. These events occur very often. The same strategy can also played on the columns. Playing 4 tables on my MR the waiting time is very short. Sometime it happens on more than one table.
Title: Re: NEW SYSTEM: SINGLE DOZEN
Post by: petespin on March 15, 2017, 11:32:58 AM
all i can say is jim is a real nice guy that he posted this system , now if u smart enough u can play and bet succesfully if not......u cant be milionaire overnight  but u ll be ahead for long term thats a sure thing guys.
Title: Re: NEW SYSTEM: SINGLE DOZEN
Post by: Bayes on March 15, 2017, 12:45:36 PM
Yo Term, don't forget Bales is hard at work at the WHEEL DOZENS as well!

Who is Bales?  :P

I'm having second thoughts about adding the wheel dozens because it means having to place 12 chips and I want to keep things fairly simple. I suppose I could use a dozen made up of 2 DS, which would require only 2 chips. If we number the DS from 1-6 the possibilities are 12 (leaving aside the standard dozens (1,2), (3,4), (5,6)) :

(1,3), (1,4), (1,5), (1,6)
(2,3), (2,4), (2,5), (2,6)
(3,5), (3,6)
(4,5), (4,6)

We need 3 pairs to make a set of 3 dozens, and it's better to make these pairs mutually exclusive (no DS repeated in the set). I'll figure out which they are and report back.
Title: Re: NEW SYSTEM: SINGLE DOZEN
Post by: palestis on March 15, 2017, 04:04:30 PM
The original system XXY was based on the fact that usually a single dozen has the tendency to disappear for a few spins like 2 or 3 spins. Then you bet that the Y dozen is most likely to appear a second time in between. (The X dozen already appeared twice).
That's the basic assumption.
Now that doesn't  mean that this system cannot be modified.
HARRYJ plays the same system, but uses 2 DS's instead of dozens. I hope he comes in and reports.
(He is currently away from S. Africa and on visit in Northampton  UK).
The good thing is that whatever modification takes place, the results can be confirmed, with testing.
I always welcome changes and modifications as long as the results slightly improve.
Title: Re: NEW SYSTEM: SINGLE DOZEN
Post by: TERMINATOR on March 15, 2017, 04:32:07 PM
Yes, I like to test variations and compare them to the original, that is how we improve! Thanks for explaining the reason why you developed this strategy, Jim.

BTW, Reyth, I noticed in your modifications that you have no "YXX, XZZ," etc. Do you skip or play those triggers? I'm playing your variation now, to see how it compares to the previous games I played. And I AM playing the triggers "ZYY, etc."
Title: Re: NEW SYSTEM: SINGLE DOZEN
Post by: Reyth on March 15, 2017, 04:39:05 PM
Yes, I alike to test variations and compare them to the original, that is how we improve! Thanks for explaining the reason why you developed this strategy, Jim.

BTW, Reyth, I noticed in your modifications that you have no "YXX, XZZ," etc. Do you skip or play those triggers? I'm playing your variation now, to see how it compares to the previous games I played. And I AM playing the triggers "ZYY, etc."

Sorry for the omission. 

Ya the bet selection is easy.  Bet the missing Dozen from the last 3 spins, if there is no missing Dozen then spin until there is -- if you get a zero, spin through as if it wasn't there but just know your odds of the missing Dozen hitting has just increased.  After every hit, start the spin history from nothing. 

There is actually no need to list the combinations.  I did it to help me conceptualize what I wanted to create.
Title: Re: NEW SYSTEM: SINGLE DOZEN
Post by: TERMINATOR on March 15, 2017, 06:09:08 PM
Well, I just finished comparing Reyth's modification to my last game played. I thought I'd share it (I hope that's okay?). The results are NOT what I expected. I thought it would do better. My previous game is in reply #92 (above), and Reyth's strategy is attached below (if you want to see the details).

This is really like 2 games (since I play both Dozens and Columns at the same time). I know it's a small sample, but I play everything manually, by hand, and it takes me a while. Reyth, are you able to compare these 2 strategies side by side with lots of spins through your programing? It will probably be more accurate than this test size.

Anyway, here are the results (200+ spin game):

Original Strategy:
Dozens - 29 units won
Columns = 39 units won
Splits - 76 units won
TOTAL = 144 units won

Highest progression reached = 4th.

Reyth's Strategy:
Dozens - 20 units won
Columns = 30 units won
Splits - 36 units lost
TOTAL = 14 units won

Highest progression reached = 5th.

The difference on the Split Bets was a shocker to me.
Title: Re: NEW SYSTEM: SINGLE DOZEN
Post by: Reyth on March 15, 2017, 06:23:20 PM
Wow nice work. :D
Title: Re: NEW SYSTEM: SINGLE DOZEN
Post by: Bayes on March 16, 2017, 08:06:37 PM
@ palestis, a query.  After a win or an "abort" by rule 3 (stop if the first 2 bets after the trigger result in XX ) in your view is it better to collect spins until you are 3 spins "clear" of the trigger before looking for the new trigger?

Here's a case where it doesn't make sense to take the trigger from the last 3 spins:

L
H
L
M
M
H -- trigger, bet H
M
M -- rule 3 (abort), but new trigger, bet H!

Looking back 3 spins you now have a new trigger, but it requires betting on H which is what you have just abandoned because of rule 3. Of course you could just continue collecting spins in these situations until you get XXY. Do you have a preference? (just thinking about it from the POV of programming).

Also, how many spins (bets) did you use to test the system before posting it here? Thanks.
Title: Re: NEW SYSTEM: SINGLE DOZEN
Post by: Reyth on March 16, 2017, 08:11:24 PM
(http://www.animatedimages.org/data/media/431/animated-cheerleader-image-0030.gif)

GO BALES GO!
Title: Re: NEW SYSTEM: SINGLE DOZEN
Post by: Bayes on March 16, 2017, 08:15:33 PM
Will do, RELTH.  :D
Title: Re: NEW SYSTEM: SINGLE DOZEN
Post by: scepticus on March 16, 2017, 09:53:30 PM
Nice one Bayes  !
Title: Re: NEW SYSTEM: SINGLE DOZEN
Post by: palestis on March 16, 2017, 09:58:26 PM
@ palestis, a query.  After a win or an "abort" by rule 3 (stop if the first 2 bets after the trigger result in XX ) in your view is it better to collect spins until you are 3 spins "clear" of the trigger before looking for the new trigger?
@ Bayes
When you encounter a situations like this, you have to stop and think for a moment to figure the previous situation,  if it is worth it to continue based on numbers that have already been accounted for.
Since there is no shortage of triggers, the best thing to do is leave everything behind and start fresh.
Very soon you will find a new trigger. You are not missing anything. It also gives you the chance to get away from questionable conditions.
I have tested about 30,000 numbers from various score cards and another person that also checks it about 40,000 numbers.
Title: Re: NEW SYSTEM: SINGLE DOZEN
Post by: Bayes on March 17, 2017, 09:12:04 AM
Since there is no shortage of triggers, the best thing to do is leave everything behind and start fresh.

Ok palestis, thanks. I'll code the tracker to only look for a new trigger 3 spins after the old one, that way there won't be any ambiguity. There will be no shortage of triggers if I include some double streets.
Title: Re: NEW SYSTEM: SINGLE DOZEN
Post by: Harryj on March 17, 2017, 03:50:31 PM
Kkav I am extremely pissed off. Twice I have written long posts only to be told J do not have the right to post. I am away from home and working with an old tablet that was rejected as obsolete by my primary school granddaughter. Hours wasted !!

       I will keep this shorter. Bayes raised the question of using DS . This system was designed around the use of DS. In collaboration with Pal it was adapted to work with his intermitant style.
        As Bayes pointed out there are 15 possible DS dozens. SSO there isenty of choice. If we exclude the natural dozens 12,34,56. I prefercto combine DS 1,2,3. with DS 3,4,5.In this way each dozen with include 6 R&B. O&E. H&L. Research has shown that this distribution improves slightly on the performs CE of the natural dozens.
          I use "Flow" as WL as the "Rule of Thirds" this means that I try to flow trends by using the last 3 numbers spun as a possible trigger. This often results in a string of single spin wins.
           I use a 5 step progression which is an "Insured Martingale", designed to tailor the payback to the expectancy. This greatly reduces the number of progression losses, and improves the W/L ratio. So I do not increase my basic bet after a loss. I let the W/L ratio take care of recovery. This keeps the B/R required small.
        I was recently asked if I knew anything better. Frankly I don't. I may sacrifice a few wins to recover a loss, but there are plenty of triggers and wins out there.
                 Harry

Title: Re: NEW SYSTEM: SINGLE DOZEN
Post by: Reyth on March 17, 2017, 04:24:08 PM
Wow.  Alot of people will like the flat betting for the recovery.
Title: Re: NEW SYSTEM: SINGLE DOZEN
Post by: TERMINATOR on March 17, 2017, 06:50:27 PM
Harryj, I'd like to read more about how you play your strategy. Can you get more specific? Thanks.
Title: Re: NEW SYSTEM: SINGLE DOZEN
Post by: Bayes on March 19, 2017, 10:47:10 AM
I did another short test using the tracker. 198 spins and 34 units profit. The worst stretch was 3 consecutive losses.

@ Palestis, do you have any stats on the percentage of wins over all your tests? If the system has any flat bet advantage it should return a winning percentage of more than 69% on a single zero wheel assuming each "attack" after a trigger is 3 spins long.

You mentioned that you tested over 30,000 spins. Is that spins or actual bets? What was the longest run of consecutive losses? Thanks.
Title: Re: NEW SYSTEM: SINGLE DOZEN
Post by: Bayes on March 19, 2017, 12:50:54 PM
The Holloway progression works quite nicely with 2-1 bets and is quite conservative:

1,1,1,1,1,2,2,2,2,3,3,3,4,4,5,5,6,7,8,9,10,12,14,16,18,20,22,25,28

Reset on a new high, or go back 2 steps on a win.
Title: Re: NEW SYSTEM: SINGLE DOZEN
Post by: palestis on March 19, 2017, 01:08:35 PM
@Bayes.
I can't think of any flat bet advantage because I haven't tested it that way.
Actually I don't even test it with the final win /loss amount of chips in mind.
My main concern is how many BACK TO BACK losses I encounter. That is y, testing as many spins as  possible is extremely important.
Because I know if 3 back to back losses are the rare maximum, then it is obvious that you can never lose. (provided you have a sufficient B/R and the guts to go with it). 
3 back to back losses for a single dozen (9 spins), is not nearly as bad as 3 back to back losses for EC (at 3 bets per EC). (not to mention 24+ numbers).
I encountered 4 back to back losses once, and the 3 back to back losses were extremely rare (with many wins in between.
But in the case of 4 back to back losses they were well within the exception rules, as well as well the majority of 3 back to back losses.
In fact I have the record of the 4 back2back losses that I encountered, and as you can see it is clear that in actual plat it would've been prevented.
The red flags are very obvious.
I think the trigger ( XXY), that makes this possible, must be very powerful , because of the way dozens behave.
Once the maximum back 2back losses are established, the progression is a personal matter. 
Can you really think of a situation where someone with $5000 B/R and $5 minimum starting chip, can lose? Not even with 8 back to back losses and  Martingale style progression for a single dozen.
Title: Re: NEW SYSTEM: SINGLE DOZEN
Post by: Bayes on March 19, 2017, 01:52:08 PM
I agree that number of back to back losses is the overriding factor when using a progression.

Can you really think of a situation where someone with $5000 B/R and $5 minimum starting chip, can lose? Not even with 8 back to back losses and  Martingale style progression for a single dozen.

But if using a full martingale progression the limit would be more like 4 back to back losses. If 8 occurred it would take you well over the house limit.

4 losses x 3 spins per attack = a progression of 12.

A full marty is 1,1,2,3,4,6,9,13,20,30,45,68, and continuing on the stakes really start to get silly.

Not that I would ever use one though...
Title: Re: NEW SYSTEM: SINGLE DOZEN
Post by: Bayes on March 19, 2017, 02:09:17 PM
A maximum of 4 back to back losses seems remarkable, it corresponds to a max losing streak of 12, when we know that for a dozen it can go to 30+. The trouble is that these high variance outcomes don't tend to show up until you've tested many thousands of spins. I'm assuming that the variance of the bet is no lower than a random bet, which may not be the case - in fact it can't be so if the max losing streak is only 12.
Title: Re: NEW SYSTEM: SINGLE DOZEN
Post by: Reyth on March 19, 2017, 02:11:41 PM
You need millions for the worst but of course when we have an event that is ###,###  (not the worst) and we double our bankroll in events that are in the ###, the very statistically rare events don't matter, as long as we are willing to surrender a bank without a further escalating fight about it.
Title: Re: NEW SYSTEM: SINGLE DOZEN
Post by: TERMINATOR on March 19, 2017, 05:28:32 PM
I tested 5 games so far (manually). It was doing awesome, until my 5th game. The last game I played, I lost 7 progressions in a row (at the 64-64-128 level). I was playing Dozens and Columns at the same time, and the Columns category is the one that lost (the Dozens did a profit).

With your strategy, it should not matter whether we play Dozens or Columns, right?

Title: Re: NEW SYSTEM: SINGLE DOZEN
Post by: kav on March 19, 2017, 11:55:24 PM
1,1,1,1,1,2,2,2,2,3,3,3,4,4,5,5,6,7,8,9,10,12,14,16,18,20,22,25,28
Reset on a new high, or go back 2 steps on a win.
I agree that this is an amazing progression for a Dozen.
However I find unbelievable that Palestis managed to turn the max unhit limit of 12 numbers from well over 20 spins to only 12.
I understand that the rules are a bit complex so it can't be easily programmed for a 50K test.
Therefore I'd like to ask Palestis, if we ignore the exception rules, what would be the maximum of back to back losses? 5?
Title: Re: NEW SYSTEM: SINGLE DOZEN
Post by: palestis on March 20, 2017, 12:35:45 AM
@ Kav.
As a matter of fact I always ignore the rules, but only  for testing purposes.
(Paying attention to the rules will significantly slow down the testing, as I do it manually).
Then,  whenever I see 3 or more  back to back losses I circle them and go back later to see if the violation of the rules was the culprit. And sure enough it was in the 4 back to back case and I would say 80% of all 3 back to back losses, and quite a few cases of 2 back to back losses.
So you have ample warning before you decide to bet. 
So far I have only seen one case of 4 back to back which I posted in the picture a few posts above.
And that was while ignoring the rules. Never seen 5. Again without compliance with the rules.
Computerized testing summarizes the back to back losses, but I am not sure if it pinpoints where they happened, so you can go back to that spot investigate it.
In actual play you have full view of the previously spun numbers, and whenever they fall under the "no bet" rules, it is obvious, and therefore easy to avoid by skipping spins.
I guess the great advantage of this system is that it warns you ahead of time of an impending bad situation.
Many systems do not provide the advantage of early warning signals. So you basically proceed blindfolded.
Title: Re: NEW SYSTEM: SINGLE DOZEN
Post by: palestis on March 20, 2017, 12:50:11 AM
I tested 5 games so far (manually). It was doing awesome, until my 5th game. The last game I played, I lost 7 progressions in a row (at the 64-64-128 level). I was playing Dozens and Columns at the same time, and the Columns category is the one that lost (the Dozens did a profit).

With your strategy, it should not matter whether we play Dozens or Columns, right?
When you say you lost 7 progressions do you mean you lost 7 back to back triggers (3 bets per trigger which brings the total to 21 bets) or 7 progressions by themselves, which mean 2.33 triggers?  (7:3=2.33). That is about a little more than2 back to back losses,  but still under 3.
When you play dozens and columns simultaneously the dynamics of the system change. Plus you have to observe the rules for both doz. and col. at the same time. Which can be a bit confusing.
One or the other should do just fine.
And last but not least do you play it in an RNG online casino ( or online live out of a studio), or is it a B+M casino? Because in that case it becomes a question of trust.
Title: Re: NEW SYSTEM: SINGLE DOZEN
Post by: Reyth on March 20, 2017, 01:12:22 AM
Sure programs can output to a file ONLY the spin history associated with X back to back hits, where you may specify whatever X is and it can even be multiple choices within X and it will do this over an unlimited amount of trials AND it can even do this with B&M spins like the ones we have on this site.
Title: Re: NEW SYSTEM: SINGLE DOZEN
Post by: palestis on March 20, 2017, 02:13:22 AM
I agree that number of back to back losses is the overriding factor when using a progression.

[quote}
But if using a full martingale progression the limit would be more like 4 back to back losses. If 8 occurred it would take you well over the house limit.

4 losses x 3 spins per attack = a progression of 12.

A full marty is 1,1,2,3,4,6,9,13,20,30,45,68, and continuing on the stakes really start to get silly.
I don't know how many progressions will go over the limit.
In most European casinos, progressions are only allowed in multiples of the minimum. If it's $5 it has to be 5-10-15 -20 etc.
In American casinos once you satisfy the minimum you can progress in subdivisions of the minimum,
If it is $5 you can bet $6, $7 $8 etc. on a dozen outside. ( but not 50 cent subdivisions).
Also after you bet the maximum outside, you can bet the dozen numbers inside plus the dozen numbers splits, its DS's, streets, and quads. So you have room to increase the bets before hitting the limit. 

A maximum of 4 back to back losses seems remarkable, it corresponds to a max losing streak of 12, when we know that for a dozen it can go to 30+. The trouble is that these high variance outcomes don't tend to show up until you've tested many thousands of spins. I'm assuming that the variance of the bet is no lower than a random bet, which may not be the case - in fact it can't be so if the max losing streak is only 12.
It is remarkable indeed. But again that can only happen (4 back to back), after total disregard to the rules. In effect it should never happen in actual play. Or it may only happen after hundreds and hundreds of wins, which will have no catastrophic results to the bottom line. ( especially when you use a smoother progression). So in effect all you have to worry about are the rare cases of 3 back to back losses that defied the rules. And being rare it's not terribly bad if you encounter this situation once in a great while. A healthy B/R should neutralize it very easily.
I guess a possible explanation is the law of the thirds. An XXY triggers shows a complete cycle of 36 spins. The 12 numbers absent in a full cycle would be dozen Z.
In the next cycle you  most likely expect to see YZZ or YYZ. ( X probably exhausted its turn, otherwise its persistent reappearance will fall under the rules of exception or "no bet".
Therefore you'd anticipate to see more appearances of dozen Z or the target dozen Y.
If  Y shows up one time even if it is in between Z's you win, if it is a persistent Z again, it rings the alarm bells. And you stop betting, waiting for a new situation. It is rare and doubtful that the next trigger will create another anomaly.
Whatever the reason is, I would take the long term test results for granted.

 
Title: Re: NEW SYSTEM: SINGLE DOZEN
Post by: TERMINATOR on March 20, 2017, 05:56:47 AM
When you say you lost 7 progressions do you mean you lost 7 back to back triggers (3 bets per trigger which brings the total to 21 bets)

Yes, 21 bet in a row. I have attached my game below. It is the COLUMNS that took the loss, not the Dozens.

When you play dozens and columns simultaneously the dynamics of the system change.

Hmmm. I did not realize this. In what way does it change?

This is what I did, just FYI. I copy and pasted over 200 roulette spins, then I played the DOZENS (with splits) first. When I finished, I went back to the beginning of the Spins and played the same game again, but with the COLUMNS (and Splits).

To me, this would be no different than if 2 people approached the same game at the same time, and one played Dozens while the other played Columns. I was thinking of doing this with my brother the next time we go to a casino. We want to be at the same table to keep each other company, using this strategy. I figured we could use it at the same time, without getting in each others way, if one of us uses the columns instead of the dozens.

Plus you have to observe the rules for both doz. and col. at the same time. Which can be a bit confusing.
Yes, I did observe the rules for both. It WOULD be confusing if I played them both at the same time, but as explained above, I did them separately in the same game. This is for TESTING purposes only, I like comparing different ways of doing things to the same spins. PLUS it makes testing go faster when I can play the same numbers twice.

And last but not least do you play it in an RNG online casino ( or online live out of a studio), or is it a B+M casino? Because in that case it becomes a question of trust.

I downloaded millions of real roulette spins from real casino's (I do not trust RNG roulette on gambling sites). I copy and paste 200 spins at a time from those files and paste them into excel to test them.

I still like your system a lot, palestis. I will try it with a less aggressive progression. I like Bayes suggestion about the Holloway also. It's less aggressive and will last longer in the case of a bad run.
Title: Re: NEW SYSTEM: SINGLE DOZEN
Post by: TERMINATOR on March 20, 2017, 07:39:51 AM
*UPDATE*

I played the same game AGAIN (game #5), playing only the Columns (I lost 499 units that game), except this time I used the Holloway Progression as suggested by Bayes. I still used ALL the rules that Palestis gave.

When I got to the SAME spot where I was down 499 last game, I was only down 113 units this game! BUT, since I did not hit my table max yet, I continued playing the game (planning on stopping once I hit 200 spins).

I RESOLVED all bets and was in the positive once I hit the 8th progression level ! But then a strange thing happened. After I won on the 8th progression level and I dropped back down to the first level, I LOST 7 progression levels again, in the same game! WTF. (I did win once on level 5, but I was still down, so I repeated level 5 and lost until level eight).

The Holloway progression brought me out of it AGAIN, for the 2nd time, and I ended up 18 units up!!! Much better than 499 units down using the original progression.

My game is attached here. I did not make this up, it is real roulette spins from a real casino (I downloaded to my computer).

This progression does seem like a really good one to use. It takes a little longer to recoup losses than the original, but it will BUST less frequently! Thanks for suggesting this, Bayes! I think this is a good improvement to your strategy, Palestis. For those who prefer a safer progression, I mean.
Title: Re: NEW SYSTEM: SINGLE DOZEN
Post by: Bayes on March 20, 2017, 09:08:46 AM
Hi Terminator, glad you like the progression. It's actually a sort of "universal" progression in that it can be used for other bets, not just 2-1. According to Holloway in his book, "Full Time Gambler", there are two ways to use it:

1. The "rise and fall" way. This is as I described it earlier, but you can also use it with odds other than 2-1. After a win you move back as many places as the odds to 1. e.g. if using it with a double street (5-1), after a win you would move back 5 steps. When you get back to step one you will be in profit.

2. The "no retreat" way. In this case you continue to move up the progression until you have a new high (regardless of whether the prior result was a win or loss), then reset to one.

I didn't post the full progression, which is actually this:

1,1,1,1,1,2,2,2,2,3,3,3,4,4,5,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,14,16,18,20,22,25,28,30,32,35,40,45,50,55,60,70,80,90,100,110,120,135,150

It's based on a fixed percentage scale, so successive steps are generated by multiplying the current value by a fixed % and then rounding (the above uses about 10%). So you could generate your own progressions using different percentages. e.g. if using 20% you proceed like this:

1. 1

next step is 1.2 x 1 = 1.2 (1, rounded)

2. 1

next step is 1.2 x 1.2 = 1.44 (1, rounded)

3. 1

next step is 1.2 x 1.44 = 1.728 (2, rounded)

4. 2

next step is 1.2 x 1.728 = 2.074 (2, rounded)

5. 2

and so on. Get the idea?
Title: Re: NEW SYSTEM: SINGLE DOZEN
Post by: TERMINATOR on March 20, 2017, 05:31:12 PM
Thank you for expanding on the Holloway, Bayes. Yes, I understand. It does make sense. I like how it's adjustable.

When I played it in my game #5, I used Palestis's rule of staying at the same level until it's resolved.

I will now try it the 2 other ways you mentioned. Dropping down 2 level after each win, and going UP after a win until it's resolved. Interesting.

Thanks again for sharing!
Title: Re: NEW SYSTEM: SINGLE DOZEN
Post by: petespin on March 20, 2017, 06:51:08 PM
odd dozen bet its a very good bet selection  when its played in hit and run fashion WITHOUT progressions , like jim does , moving from table to table and watching at scorebords to find a good bet oppurtunity , from the other hand its fine to increase the size of your unit after 2 lost rtiggers when u already ve seen virtual lost triggers , its asure thing that if look at scorebords u ll find a couple of virtual lost triggers , seems boring, but its safer imo .
Title: Re: NEW SYSTEM: SINGLE DOZEN
Post by: Bayes on March 20, 2017, 06:56:30 PM
I will now try it the 2 other ways you mentioned. Dropping down 2 level after each win, and going UP after a win until it's resolved. Interesting.

Thanks again for sharing!

Term, I should have been clearer in my post regarding the 2nd way (I've amended the post). You continue to move up the progression regardless of a prior win or loss (more risky). But by all means try going up after only after a win (instead of a loss), it'll be interesting to see the results.  :D

Actually, Holloway does mention several "wagering improvements" which include what he calls the delayed climb, which is like Oscars grind; you raise bets after wins and then keep at the same level until the next win, then raise again.

There is leveling off : stay at a certain level such as 5 or 10 units until you recover, and also slump-breaking : action stops after a certain number of losses and then resumed when the winners start coming in.

He adds: "In all these attempts at improving the situation one frequently meets with frustration; the very next play after you stopped may the needed winner. In time you will get to where the frustrations do not bother you, they are part of the game. If you are following definite rules, you must know from research that the new pattern of winners and losers that you are creating is an improvement even though it has its rough spots."
 
Title: Re: NEW SYSTEM: SINGLE DOZEN
Post by: petespin on March 20, 2017, 06:57:00 PM
u ll never forget that u only need 1 sequence from hell to lose all your br, and this is what progressions do.....
Title: Re: NEW SYSTEM: SINGLE DOZEN
Post by: petespin on March 20, 2017, 07:02:55 PM
and the real problem is when u start to calculate from 5e your steps even from 2,5e which is the lowest limit in my country s casinos !
Title: Re: NEW SYSTEM: SINGLE DOZEN
Post by: TERMINATOR on March 20, 2017, 07:20:52 PM
Bayes, you were clear, I understood when you said to move up after a win or a loss. That's how I replayed my game #5.

Anyway, here are the results of all 4 ways I played.
to Recap:
- I am risking no more than a 500 unit loss.
- There were TWO 21 losses in a row during same game.
- The first one was a continuous 21 losses.
- The second one had 1 win during the 21 losses (but was still severely in debt)

1st - Palesis's Progression: 1-1-2, 2-2-4, etc. (when win, stay at same level until resolved. Move up if lose)
BUST! 499 unit loss
(Did NOT make it passed the first 21 losses)

2nd - Holloway's Progression, using Palesis's rule for HIS progression above (when win, stay at same level until resolved. Move up if lose)
18 units up
(made it passed BOTH 21 losses)

3rd - Holloway's Progression, using rule 1 (move back 2 steps after each win)
BUST! 448 unit loss
(Did NOT make it passed the first 21 losses)

4th - Holloway's Progression, using rule 2 (continue to move up the progression regardless of a prior win or loss)
!!! 72 units up !!!
(made it passed BOTH 21 losses, and made a HUGE profit after each loss was resolved!)

I really did not expect the 4th progression to do well during this game from hell.

Title: Re: NEW SYSTEM: SINGLE DOZEN
Post by: palestis on March 20, 2017, 09:15:01 PM
------------------ATTENTION                 ATTENTION----------------------------
@ TERMINATOR

I copied all your numbers from your Excel sheet and tried to process the columns.
But as I was doing it,  I noticed that you had the same numbers repeated as shown in the pic. below.
Am I missing something?
The numbers I copied coincided side by side and as you can see they are the same groups of numbers repeated.
Can you check your data? I hope I'm not missing something.
Thanks
PS: They are the same numbers you used for the dozen system.
Let's hope you made an omission and your disappointment from the results was unnecessary.
 

Title: Re: NEW SYSTEM: SINGLE DOZEN
Post by: Reyth on March 20, 2017, 09:18:45 PM
LOL the session from heck indeed!  Deja Vu Roulette!!! XD
Title: Re: NEW SYSTEM: SINGLE DOZEN
Post by: TERMINATOR on March 20, 2017, 09:27:38 PM
Yes, I see. There is a small section where I repeated the numbers. I must have hit "CTRL+V" twice in a row without knowing it (I don't copy all 200 numbers at once, but do them in sections). I will re-do this game with the repeats taken out.

However, it IS still good to know that of all the progressions, if there is a session from hell like this, the Holloway does good in TWO cases. I prefer the one with YOUR rules, where, at a win, we STAY at the same level until it's resolved. And only go up again at a loss. It is a safer progression than going up regardless of a win or loss.

I will post the new results when I finish all 4 progressions again.

Sorry about the error.
Title: Re: NEW SYSTEM: SINGLE DOZEN
Post by: palestis on March 20, 2017, 09:37:41 PM
Don't worry.  You are not going to find 7 back to back losses in the next one million years.
Think of your honest mistake as a bad dream.
And don't worry about the progression. As long as back to back losses stay under 4, any progression method should result in profit. It then becomes a matter of personal preference.
Title: Re: NEW SYSTEM: SINGLE DOZEN
Post by: Reyth on March 20, 2017, 09:45:31 PM
Just to make sure the air is clear about this, I seriously would need more than one post to detail all the mistakes I have made in programming and playing roulette; before I got done, you would be certain I was 8 years old!
Title: Re: NEW SYSTEM: SINGLE DOZEN
Post by: palestis on March 20, 2017, 10:38:57 PM
No problem at all.
Some of us got very worried, about Terminator's test results. Now that it has been established that it was a programming oversight, we can all  get a good night's sleep. The system still works, and that's reassuring. 
Title: Re: NEW SYSTEM: SINGLE DOZEN
Post by: TERMINATOR on March 20, 2017, 11:31:09 PM
Don't worry.  You are not going to find 7 back to back losses in the next one million years.
Think of your honest mistake as a bad dream.
And don't worry about the progression. As long as back to back losses stay under 4, any progression method should result in profit. It then becomes a matter of personal preference.

That's cool. I thought it was very bizarre that there were 7 losses in a row. I'm glad you found my error.

I'm still going to compare these 4 different progressions, side by side, to see which one is more profitable over many different games. I agree it's a personal preference. For those who are interested, I'll post a summery of my results after I play through a set amount of games. And I'll only play DOZENS (without columns or split bets).

Again, sorry for the scare.
Title: Re: NEW SYSTEM: SINGLE DOZEN
Post by: Bayes on March 21, 2017, 11:05:04 AM
Nice work Term. Even though the run from hell was due to duplicated data it's nice to know that the Holloway progression pulled through, just in case the unthinkable does happen.  :-X

I will be adding it to the tracker.
 
Title: Re: NEW SYSTEM: SINGLE DOZEN
Post by: TERMINATOR on March 22, 2017, 07:22:15 PM
For those who are interested, I played 6 more games, comparing the 3 Progressions side by side, and these are my results.

The 2 Holloway Progressions below are:
1) on a win, bet the same as previous bet, on a lose increase, until a new high.
2) regardless of win or lose, go up in the progression until a new high.

(These are the 2 progressions that survived the "Deja Vu Game from Hell" mistake I did).

                  Original Strategy    Holloway Same      Holloway Up

Game #1:                   31            15            20
Game #2:                 53            26            36
Game #3:                 44            23            22
Game #4:                 82            32            26
Game #5:                 36            25            23
Game #6:                  21            10              13

Totals Units:                267        131           140

In games that go "normally", it seems Palestis's original progression is definitely the BEST. But, the Holloway is good to survive any unexpected games from hell, at a sacrifice of profits from normal games. But, since Palestis said that losing 21 bets in a row is a once in a lifetime event, I'd say that his 1-1-2, 2-2-4, etc. progression definitely works the best for this game!

BTW, I was also comparing the original Holloway in which on every win, you move back 2. But that did so much worse than the others, sometimes getting a LOSS for the game, that I dropped it.

Anyway, thanks again for sharing your strategy and progression Palesis! I really like playing this of all the methods I tried already. And thank you for sharing the Holloway, Bayes, because if a game is going extremely bad, maybe we can temporarily switch to the Holloway until it turns around.

Oh, and here's 2 other stats during those 6 games:

                                      Original Progression     Holloway Same       Holloway Up
Highest Bet Made:                      32                            35                          28
Average Highest Bet Made:       20                            13                           12

(Note. "Average Highest Bet Made" is derived by taking the highest bet made for each individual game. Then adding all 6 of those highs together, and dividing by 6).

Title: Re: NEW SYSTEM: SINGLE DOZEN
Post by: palestis on March 22, 2017, 09:10:06 PM
What were the highest consecutive trigger losses? (@ 3 bets each).
Hopefully not 7.
Title: Re: NEW SYSTEM: SINGLE DOZEN
Post by: TERMINATOR on March 22, 2017, 11:28:54 PM
Well, I avoided mentioning this, because I was afraid you'd think I screwed up again. Anyway, I'll start by saying EVERY game (but that one) went VERY smoothly, I did not get above a level 3.

But in the worst game, I reached level 6 TWICE in the same game. I know what you're thinking. But I DOUBLE CHECKED to make sure there were no repeats like last time. It was a bad run from the very first bet.

I've attached the game here for your inspection.

I followed all your Red Flags to the best of my knowledge.

On a POSITIVE note, even though this was the WORST game for levels, it's actually my most PROFITABLE GAME EVER. I made 82 units profit, which is 2 to 3 times more than my average game at 200 spins.

If you have time to play through it, and you do not reach the 6th level, I'd like to understand why, and what I may be doing wrong, or what I can change, to avoid going so high in the progression.

Thanks Palestis!
Title: Re: NEW SYSTEM: SINGLE DOZEN
Post by: palestis on March 23, 2017, 10:04:13 AM
Yes I will check it.
But as  a first observation,  from the excel sheet, where the trigger was  12-7-34, the target dozen  (H) has appeared multiple times previously , including a 0 in between. In a live setting that would've raised  my attention. And most likely I would've avoided betting in that roulette.  Not to mention that at the very beginning after the first trigger the dozens were repeating very frequently.
Indicating that this roulette was on a roll.
Actually there are no exact rules as to how many spins you have to skip after the presence of a red flag until you encounter a more normal situation. In real life it would mean move on to another roulette. Instead of waiting for the same roulette to become normal.
But I will examine it in depth later.
But I can't stress enough the value of a live play using many roulettes. Not only red flags appear clearly in front of you, examining previous spins in the score board can also indicate extended anomalies for a particular roulette. At the same time the next table might be perfectly suited for this system's purposes.
Title: Re: NEW SYSTEM: SINGLE DOZEN
Post by: Bayes on March 23, 2017, 10:05:56 AM
I haven't yet seen a losing streak of more than 4, but then I probably haven't tested over as many spins as Terminator. However, consecutive losses aren't the only danger. I just had a session which included this w/L sequence:

w
L
w
L
w
L
W
L
L
L
W
W
L
L
W

Using the standard progression of 1 1 2 2 2 4 4 4 8 ... and sticking at the same level after a win can escalate the stakes quickly with a sequence like the above.
Title: Re: NEW SYSTEM: SINGLE DOZEN
Post by: kav on March 23, 2017, 12:06:58 PM
Btw,

I would like to mention that what TERM is doing, comparing how different progressions produce different results when attacking the same spins, is one of the deepest form of roulette research. It is a very useful part of developing any roulette strategy and can teach us alot about the different effects of different wagering plans (progressions).
Title: Re: NEW SYSTEM: SINGLE DOZEN
Post by: TERMINATOR on March 23, 2017, 12:46:18 PM
Thanks for taking the time to look at it, Palestis. I look forward to your detailed review later. I'm sure others will benefit as well.

where the trigger was  12-7-34, the target dozen  (H) has appeared multiple times previously , including a 0 in between.

Okay. I thought I had played that specific section correctly. If I may break down my thought process for this section:

29   H
28   H
34   H
0         (3 appearances of H, and 1 zero, means I skip the next trigger)
3   L
34   H
21   M
31   H  (This HMH is the first trigger. I skip this)
12   L
7   L
34   H (This LLH is the 2nd trigger. So I bet for H next spin).
20   M

Quote
In a live setting that would've raised  my attention. And most likely I would've avoided betting in that roulette.

Really? Let me see if I understand. So, because there was a combination of an "HHH" and a "0" together, maybe we should skip two triggers instead of 1? Whereas an "HHH" by itself would only require skipping 1 trigger?

Quote
Not to mention that at the very beginning after the first trigger the dozens were repeating very frequently. Indicating that this roulette was on a roll.

Yes, this was bizarre. My first bet was on the 4th spin of the game. During those repeats I waited and waited, and it was not until around 30 spins later I placed my 2nd bet. I thought I was very patient and correctly waited for this weird streak to be over.

Quote
Actually there are no exact rules as to how many spins you have to skip after the presence of a red flag until you encounter a more normal situation. In real life it would mean move on to another roulette. Instead of waiting for the same roulette to become normal.

Okay, but assuming only 1 roulette wheel is available (like is often the case with live roulette dealer games online), it would be good to know how many "triggers" to skip in a situation like this.

Up to the "12-7-34" trigger (mentioned previously), there were FIVE streaks of 3 repeats, and ONE streak of 5 repeats. And NO WINS during that period. Maybe a rule can be added along the lines of, "For every streak of repeating numbers, skip 1 trigger." So, in this case, there were a total of 6 streaks, so we would have to skip 6 triggers? Something like that?

Quote
But I can't stress enough the value of a live play using many roulettes. Not only red flags appear clearly in front of you, examining previous spins in the score board can also indicate extended anomalies for a particular roulette. At the same time the next table might be perfectly suited for this system's purposes.

That is a very good idea, Palestis. To examine several score boards before choosing the table to play at. I like that. Or, to change to another table that's more favorable, if possible. But, if not possible (because other table are full, or not available), it would suck to not play at all after making a long trip to a casino. So, it seems if there was some kind of "in case rule" to help when the roulette wheel is on a roll, that would help us play better with your Single Dozens.

Since you have played so many more games than I have, and have been so good at spotting the Red Flags you explained already, it seems a rule to avoid escalating a progression too far would be good. Like "For every 1 streak, skip 1 trigger" or something. Waiting a little longer to play would be better than losing, or not playing at all.

Thanks for your input!
Title: Re: NEW SYSTEM: SINGLE DOZEN
Post by: TERMINATOR on March 23, 2017, 01:03:44 PM

Using the standard progression of 1 1 2 2 2 4 4 4 8 ... and sticking at the same level after a win can escalate the stakes quickly with a sequence like the above.

Yes, which is what happened in my particular game. I did not have many losses in a row. Just the contrary, I had many wins! And yet, it kept getting deeper and deeper into the progression. Scary.

The 1-1-2, 2-2-4 progression definitely has the biggest debt while getting deeper into the progressions (which means it is more likely to bust quicker on a bad wheel), but it is also the most profitable in normal games. This fact may make up for the occasional "bust", if there ever is one.

Btw,

I would like to mention that what TERM is doing, comparing how different progressions produce different results when attacking the same spins, is one of the deepest form of roulette research. It is a very useful part of developing any roulette strategy and can teach us alot about the different effects of different wagering plans (progressions).

Thank you, Kav. I have compared many other progression also that I have not shared (because they failed miserably). But I am just trying to find the BEST one for all of us to use. So far, Palestis's Original progression, and the aggressive Holloway Progressions, are the very best 2 so far.

Maybe we can add a rule, such as, "If there's more than 2 or 3  streaks of repeating dozens in a row, switch to a Holloway Progression until the table normalizes." Or something to that effect? For unusual situations.
Title: Re: NEW SYSTEM: SINGLE DOZEN
Post by: palestis on March 23, 2017, 11:31:21 PM
I did the test, but I didn't start from the very 1st trigger. (Since I had no info as to what numbers came before the 20-5-23 trigger).
And just as well. Because after that,  there was a tsunami of dozen repetitions including a very strange sequence  of 17-19-15-16-18 which I found very bizarre. Also not just frequent repetitions of the same dozen, but the same DS the dozen belong to, or even same street
In general this was not an ideal roulette session. I found these numbers to be very strange. Frequent repetitions of numbers in a short cycle, such 35-35-20-35-20 and many other things.
These are sequences you usually find in air ball machines.
But I guess anything can happen in roulette.
Anyway I didn't find anything unusual regarding many back to back losses except 4 cases of 2 back to back losses. Which is unusual compared to the lengthy test results I have done over time.
Considering that to play roulette the right way,  you need a very large B/R compared to the min. chip value. 
With $100 it is pointless to play with $10 or even $5 chips. Unless you proceed with the expectation that good luck will be on your side.
If I was to play this session or any session with $10 staring chip value, I would make sure I have $2,000 in my pocket. In that case the 2 back to back losses would've been wiped out easily even with an aggressive  progression.
Which means after 2 back to back losses, the 3rd trigger that won, would've recovered the previous losses and showed a profit too. That's the power of the large B/R to min. chip value ratio.
It's just when the consecutive losses are long and relatively frequent,  that render any size B/R useless.
 In this particular system long back to back losses, don't seem to happen. And it has  been tested for a long time by quite a few people. And nobody reports any problem regarding the length of consecutive losses.
@TERM.
I understand that sometimes you don't have choices of many roulettes, but in a B+M casino you should be able to have several choices any time.
By the way I wouldn't play this system or any system in an online studio live casino.
DUBLINBET is live with actual players playing the same roulette you play online , but once you establish a winning consistency, disconnections and switching to RNG does happen. Usually when you are at a loss during a progression.
The bottom line is that when you play the system long enough, or test it long enough you will begin to see things that are not obvious when you are new to this system.
The strongest red flag is when a repetitive dozen becomes the target dozen immediately following the repetitive sequence.
But there is nothing wrong with adding  your own tweaks, even if that restricts the number of betting opportunities.
Certainty comes first.

Title: Re: NEW SYSTEM: SINGLE DOZEN
Post by: palestis on March 23, 2017, 11:47:35 PM
@Bayes:
Yes a sequence like the one you mentioned
( W L W L W L W L L  L  W  W  L  L  W)
can be a little problematic.  For those that have a limited B/R, and can't risk larger bets.
 But again with a large B/R there is nothing that could happen to you in the above situation that would cause you to lose your shirt. As a matter of fact that would've been a piece of cake if you run into the above situation.
It is the limitation of available B/R, and the fear of many back to back losses involving betting too many numbers, that gave rise to many conservative progression schemes.
I think when testing a system, it is the maximum consecutive losses that has to be the main focus of the testing. And how frequently they may appear.
There is a close correlation of winning frequency and streaks of back to back losses.
You may win easily $500 playing 2 dozens with $25 chips,
But all it takes is 2 back to back losses to lose $200. ($25-25,  75-75).
Then you are faced with a dilemma:
Bet $225, $225 and recover and make a $25 profit, or lose and suffer a $650 loss. All it takes is  just 3 consecutive losses  to erase a hard earned profit plus $150 out of pocket. . Which by the way it happens very often in two dozen bets.
If the situation you described above looked like W L L L L L W LLL W LLLLL W LLL, and it was happening often, then you would really have a problem, and the system should be immediately rejected. 
That is y testing hundreds of thousands of spins is mandatory, to determine the possible consecutive loss that you may run into and how often as well. And that applies to every system.

Title: Re: NEW SYSTEM: SINGLE DOZEN
Post by: dobbelsteen on March 24, 2017, 09:02:08 AM
It is not so difficult to program the single dozen system with different bet selections in Excel.
Important is that you must first determine the average DTOP for a 6 number bet.  The DTOP determine  the largeness of the trial or session. Is the sample too small the result is not reliable
Title: Re: NEW SYSTEM: SINGLE DOZEN
Post by: jekhb76 on March 24, 2017, 01:47:08 PM
One of the most important things to understand and you should always keep that in mind
Is that your bankroll needs to be always 100 times your base bet.

01$ Chip - 0100$ Bankroll
05$ Chip - 0500$ Bankroll
10$ Chip - 1000$ Bankroll

etc etc.
If you always keep this as your starting point, nothing really can't go wrong
Or you must be the most unlucky person om this planet.

Also, don't raise your bets to drastic, better to increase 1 chip highet after a loss and to stay on that level until a win, then to marti.

this is a very safe system to play roulette, but you must aply to these rules and be patient, even when things go wrong you will recover, ot only takes time. Not bein' patient is one of the Gamblers greatest sins - Eddy

Title: Re: NEW SYSTEM: SINGLE DOZEN
Post by: jekhb76 on March 24, 2017, 01:50:20 PM
The last two weeks I've played 10 evenings at the casino (3 hours) and the target was €50
As soon as i reached this, I went home!
This was/is played with a bankroll of 100 euro and 1 units base bet. I'm now almost over 500 euro in profit.
Not lost my bankroll on time, or came close to it.
Title: Re: NEW SYSTEM: SINGLE DOZEN
Post by: TERMINATOR on March 24, 2017, 05:10:55 PM
Thanks for taking the time to replay this session, Palestis. Here’s my replies:

With $100 it is pointless to play with $10 or even $5 chips. Unless you proceed with the expectation that good luck will be on your side.

Are you under the impression I was doing this? I was not. I had a 500 unit bankroll for each individual game I tested so far. So, at a $10 table, I am risking $5,000, just for that ONE session. And this is what I risked in that one game in question.

Quote
I did the test, but I didn't start from the very 1st trigger. (Since I had no info as to what numbers came before the 20-5-23 trigger).

I always start each of my tests as if the roulette table just opened for the first time. So, if the first 3 spins meet your criteria for a trigger, then I start betting on the 4th spin. However, the spins that came earlier for THIS test are the last spins from the PREVIOUS test. And I would have started at the same place because there was nothing unusual prior to the first 3 spins.

QUESTION #1: When you tested your system, Palestis, did you do all the tests by hand? Or did you also run a computer simulation?

Quote
Anyway I didn't find anything unusual regarding many back to back losses except 4 cases of 2 back to back losses.

I examined your game, and I have a question as to WHY you started this game where you did. I would have started ONE spin LATER, which changes the entire game. Here is my explanation as to what I would do, according to your Red Flags. Please show me where you believe the error is:

(I am starting 8 spins previous to your FIRST trigger)

17   M   
19   M   
15   M   
16   M   
18   M   (All of these are ignored, and we SKIP the first trigger)
12   L   
18   M   
32   H   (It seems you used LMH as the first trigger, Palestis?)
17   M   (MHM is the FIRST trigger. We skip this because of MMMMM)
33   H   
19   M   
29   H   (HMH is the SECOND trigger. So, we bet for “M”  on next spin.
28   H   (This is where I placed my bet, but you placed your first bet on the spin above for H)

QUESTION #2: Can you verify which starting position is correct? Thanks, Palestis.

PS: if this turns out to be your error, palestis, may I suggest something for this game, to save time? Instead of re-doing the entire game, let's just take a section at a time, to make sure we're on the same page. Then progress to the next part in stages. This way, if either one of us made a mistake, we will not have wasted time re-doing the entire game at once.

I'm just trying to be helpful and save time. I really want to make sure I am playing this correctly, because the results in my games have been getting up pretty high in progression. I am in the middle of doing a new "10 games test", and I have reached level 6 a couple of times, and level 8 recently. I have not had any losing sessions yet, which is great. But since I am going so much higher in the progression than your tests, this is a major concern for me.
Title: Re: NEW SYSTEM: SINGLE DOZEN
Post by: TERMINATOR on March 24, 2017, 05:30:13 PM
It is not so difficult to program the single dozen system with different bet selections in Excel.
Important is that you must first determine the average DTOP for a 6 number bet.  The DTOP determine  the largeness of the trial or session. Is the sample too small the result is not reliable

Hi dobbelsteen, I am not that proficient in Excel. Would it be too much trouble to ask if you can create an Excel document for Palestis's method? It sure would save a lot of TIME, and prevent HUMAN ERRORS.

What is a DTOP? Thanks!
Title: Re: NEW SYSTEM: SINGLE DOZEN
Post by: jekhb76 on March 24, 2017, 09:45:07 PM
Tonight 2 hours spend at my local B&M casino (Holland Casino) with our single dozen system. brought 100 euro with me and left my wallet at home. I just can't get it to loose. biggest progression used was 4-4-8
you only need to be very patient, because in Holland Casino, they spin in around 1.30 min.

+42 units.

If i still can't get it to loose in 3 months or so, o will quit my job, and go pro. by then i have saved enough from my daily sessions to make 100-200 euro a day. then i don't need to work anymore.
5 evenings a week (3 hours work per day) 200 euro is €4000 in a month. I know i have the dicipline and the patients to pull this off. i only need the start capital to do so. this is my goal as a roulette player. I know it is not the holly grail, well i all depends on you mean with that. to me a holly grail is a steady income in a safe way. well when you have around 4 to 5k and you play with 10€ chips. 100-200 euro will not be a problem and you won't be in trouble if you keep your head clean and don't do crazy bettings. you need to see it as your job. when you mess things up at work you will also get fired. so see it as you business. then you will have a good income without a hard days work. will keep you all posted if and when i go for this.
Title: Re: NEW SYSTEM: SINGLE DOZEN
Post by: TERMINATOR on March 24, 2017, 10:56:24 PM
Congradulations jekhb76! That's what I'm hoping to do also. Palestis's method is very promising.

Can I ask you a favor? Since you seem to have a good grasp of using Palestis's strategy, would you be able to look at a game I played and see if I'm doing anything wrong? Or, maybe you can just play through this game, so that I can compare results and find out if I'm doing something wrong?

I've attached the following game, in which I reached level 8! However, I ended up with 131 units profit in 200 spins, so I am happy about that. But I need to figure out why I am going so high in this progression when nobody else seems to have this problem!

I'd ask Palestis, but he and I are already going over a different game. Thank you!
Title: 10 New tests
Post by: TERMINATOR on March 24, 2017, 11:12:13 PM
I Just finished 10 more tests, comparing Palestis's Strategy with the best Holloway Progression. In short, Palestis's Progression did AWESOME! No busts! Whereas the Holloway progression busted once.

Here are the details:

Total Units Won:
Game Number   Original Strategy    Holloway
11                                     16                    28
12                                     24                    18
13                                     30                    15
14                                     26                    23
15                                     35                    29
16                                     28                    41
17                                     30                   -469 (BUST)
18                                     131                    24 (Actual game is attached to previous post above)
19                                     37                    -1
20                                     56                    25

Total:                      413 units profit   267 unit loss

-
-
-

Highest Level Reached for Original Progression (Holloway has no levels compared to Palestis's)
Game Number   Original Strategy
11                                 5                 
12                                 3
13                                 5
14                                 3
15                                 1
16                                 2
17                                 5
18                                 8 (Actual game is attached to previous post above)
19                                 6
20                                 5

Average:           Level 4.3

Profit is awesome! LEVELS suck for me.
Title: Re: NEW SYSTEM: SINGLE DOZEN
Post by: palestis on March 24, 2017, 11:24:59 PM
@Terminator.
I was not under the impression that you were playing with a B/ R that was short of what a professional player is supposed to have.
It was just a general statement for every one to see. You will be surprised how many players go to the casino with 500 and they want to win 2000. As Jekhb76 says, about 100 times the min. starting chip is about right for this system. It can handle every possible negative scenario.
You mentioned that I started the trigger with LMH. If you look at the picture (which I repeated to make it easy)
My first trigger was 17-33-19. Half circle at the 2 bottom numbers in the first column and one number on top of the 2nd column. I didn't use 12-18-32 which corresponds to the LMH in question.
(black circle around  3 numbers is the trigger,  a red dash is a losing spin and a green checkmark is a win)
That should answer the 2nd question.
For your 1st question YES all my tests were done manually.
But don't think that I waste time writing every number down and then circle triggers and then see what happens in the next 3 bets. ( I only do that for posting purposes).
In this particular system I can just read the numbers down from a score card, and when  a trigger comes up I pay attention reading the 3 results. As long as only one or 2 back to back triggers fail, I keep on reading. Because the B/R can handle those easily. When I see 3+ back to back failures, I pause and look at the conditionss very carefully.
You will be susrpised that I go thru testing thousands of spins in a short period of time.
Sometimes I use numbers form the Wisdbaden casino, sometimes from my own cards that I have like the one in the pic. from 2006.
But as I said I have done thousands of tests and the only serious failure was 4 back to back. One or 2 times only.
Never seen 5 or more. And that was without paying attention to the red flags.
I only came up with the red flag cautions after examining the cases of 3 or 4 back to back failures.
I think to make it simple to test we should only use 2 red flags.
For example if you see 5,2,4,15,20,8 the trigger makes the 1st dozen the target. But since that 1st dozen appeared already 3+ times you simply avoid betting.
And the second red flag is when you have a trigger like 25,30, 7, and the first 2 spins that we play are 28,32 we stop at 2 lost spins. (repetition of the majority dozen in the trigger).
The other red flags are not as important. Ignoring them will not change the outcome of the system.
They were  merely added, to put some friends of mine at ease, as they don't have the heart to proceed for more than 2 losing progressions.
But by all means feel free to make whateverr tweaks or changes that you thing might improve the game.
I and HARRYJ made a simple assumption, and after a long time testing proved to have to have great potential.
Other than that I don't feel that I am smarter than you or anybody else in the forum.
So I am sure you can make your own contribution or changes if necessary.
But one thing is for sure, I never run into many back to back losses whether I paid attention to the red flags or not.

Title: Re: NEW SYSTEM: SINGLE DOZEN
Post by: TERMINATOR on March 24, 2017, 11:46:59 PM
Hi Palestis, thanks for your detailed reply. I am taking in all you are saying, and I appreciate it. I'm just trying to fix my "leak", that's all. I love your system.

Quote
My first trigger was 17-33-19. Half circle at the 2 bottom numbers in the first column and one number on top of the 2nd column. I didn't use 12-18-32 which corresponds to the LMH in question.


Okay, I still need clarification as to why you started at the 17-33-19 trigger. Can you walk me through the steps below? I inserted some questions to help understand. Thanks!

17   M   
19   M   
15   M   
16   M   
18   M   (All of these M's are ignored, and we SKIP the first trigger after these M's, Correct?)
12   L   (12-18-32 below is not a trigger, Correct? So we try for another trigger starting with #18, correct?)
18   M   
32   H   
17   M   (Isn't this 18-32-17 the FIRST TRIGGER after MMMMM? And we skip this, correct?)
33   H   
19   M   
29   H   (Isn't this 33-19-29 the SECOND trigger. So, we bet for “M”  on the next spin?)
28   H   (This is where I placed my bet, but you placed your first bet on the spin above for H)

Can you please explain your thought process as to why you bet after 17-33-29? What was the reason for skipping the numbers up to that point if my above explanations are in error?

Thanks for helping me understand, Palestis.

Title: Re: NEW SYSTEM: SINGLE DOZEN
Post by: palestis on March 24, 2017, 11:51:01 PM

@Jekhb76
That's certainly great news.
Coincidentally a friend of mine In Europe  has played this system 45 times and won all 45 times. So I am not surprised you are reporting similar results.
But I think you have the right attitude. Large B/R for a relatively small profit.  100- 200 euros a day  is not small at all.  Many people invest 100,000 to open a coffee shop or clothing store hoping that they will clear 200 a day after all expenses. And with a 2000 to 3000 B/R investment, a 100-200 profit is a business miracle.
But I am sure you are always on alert, you are never in a hurry to catch every trigger you see, and that you make frequent pauses, to gather yourself so that you don't get carried away. You probably play in different roulettes, and you probably wait for a few spins to go by after every win. 
1.5 min. per spin is not slow. The casino  near me takes 10-15 min. per spin a the $10 roulette.
(they have no machines to stack up the chips and the dealer does it himself).
Therefore I am not playing the system. Unfortunately. The other casinos are 3 hours drive each way.
By the time I get there the head is spinning and that's not a good thing when you risk money.
I reserve my play for when I will go to Europe.
Title: Re: NEW SYSTEM: SINGLE DOZEN
Post by: palestis on March 25, 2017, 01:11:42 AM

Okay, I still need clarification as to why you started at the 17-33-19 trigger. Can you walk me through the steps below? I inserted some questions to help understand. Thanks!

17   M   
19   M   
15   M   
16   M   
18   M   (All of these M's are ignored, and we SKIP the first trigger after these M's, Correct?)
12   L   (12-18-32 below is not a trigger, Correct? So we try for another trigger starting with #18, correct?)
18   M   
32   H   
17   M   (Isn't this 18-32-17 the FIRST TRIGGER after MMMMM? And we skip this, correct?)
33   H   
19   M   
29   H   (Isn't this 33-19-29 the SECOND trigger. So, we bet for “M”  on the next spin?)
28   H   (This is where I placed my bet, but you placed your first bet on the spin above for H)

Can you please explain your thought process as to why you bet after 17-33-29? What was the reason for skipping the numbers up to that point if my above explanations are in error?

Thanks for helping me understand, Palestis.
I know that we should avoid quoting, but in this case is necessary:
Ok Term.
The sequence M was 17-19-15-16-18. Yes we skip the first trigger (18-32-17). Technically the 33-19-29 is the 2nd trigger. But 32 broke the monotony of the M tsunami. So the very next trigger is 17-33-19. Even though 17 was part of the 1st trigger that we skipped, it doesn't mean we can't use it for the very next trigger, if it suited to be part of a trigger.  Because the target dozen is not the M, it is the H. So we don't chase after the dozen that was recently predominant. The target dozen is now H.
( When I said we don't use numbers that were already accounted for , I meant that to be NUMBERS THAT WERE USED AS THE RESULT OF A BET. 17 was not a number that came after  we made a bet. It just happened to be part of the 1st skipped trigger. But it's ok to use it for the next trigger as long as the target dozen is not the M. In this case it is the H. Which is perfectly fine.
But we don't need to be exact and critical in following a sequence.
Even if we took 33-19-29 as a trigger, ( as you suggested), we would've lost 2 spins: 28-34.
WE STOP AT 2 SPINS because these were numbers that were the same dozen as the MAJORITY DOZEN in the trigger.
The next trigger is 34-21-31 which is the one I circled. And that lost 3 spins. So we have 2 back to back losses, except the first loss is only 2 spins.
The reason I waited to go all the way down to 17-33-19 and skipped everything from the beginning (20-5-23.........)is  because it was obvious that something was not right with all previous numbers.
All dozens were taking turns in repeating themselves. Especially  the M and H
I understand that to perform computer simulation, your actions have to be exact within a framework.
That is y I test manually. To imitate actual betting conditions in a casino.
If you have to go to the bathroom or go get a cup of coffee, or saw a friend and you want to talk to him, naturally you have to interrupt your game.
That doesn't mean that you will be punished if you set the system aside for a few minutes.

Let me know if you understand my reasoning.
Title: Re: NEW SYSTEM: SINGLE DOZEN
Post by: TERMINATOR on March 25, 2017, 05:41:24 AM
Wow, I am so glad you are taking the time to explain this. Yes, I THINK I understand you more clearly now. But I guess I've been playing your system wrong this whole time!!! No wonder I keep getting as high as the 8th progression!

Firstly, I was not aware that, after a streak of 3 or more (such as HHH), we do NOT bet on that Dozen (H) on the following bet. Only on the other 2 (M & L). I've been doing this since the beginning, if the trigger was legitimate. (If you mentioned this in an earlier post, I must have misunderstood you).

Secondly, I was not aware that we could use numbers from a trigger that we just skipped! To me, to skip a trigger means to skip ALL 3 numbers in that trigger.

Anyway, just 3 more questions to clarify that I understand?

Question #1: Is this how we "Skip" all triggers? For example, lets' say we bet and win. The next three numbers are "LLL." Now, we skip the next trigger, and play the second one. Here's the first trigger"

15 M
35 H
14 M

I would usually skip all 3 numbers. BUT, let's say the next number is 20 M. We get:

15 M
35 H
14 M
20 M

NOW, I can use the 35-14-20 as my SECOND trigger, since I will not be betting on the "L" which repeated previously. Am I understanding you correctly? If so, I LOVE this because it means we can place bets more FREQUENTLY, rather than waiting for so long before placing our next bets.

Question #2: You mentioned previously that if 2 zeros appear close to each other, to skip the first trigger. In this case, would you skip all 3 numbers after the second 0 appeared? How do you deal with skipping a trigger after 2 zeros?

Question #3: I have a question about ONE zero. This is how I've been playing 1 zero. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

There has been no streaks lately. And NO zeros. And these are the spins:

3 L
36 H
0
34H

I would bet "L" next. Is this correct? I just ignore this zero? Or should I proceed a little further away from Zero, like waiting for 3 new numbers passed 0 or something?

Anyway, I am glad you took the time to clear those important items up for me in your previous post, and thank you for clarifying your thought process, Palestis.

After you answer these last questions, I will experiment with another 10 games, using just your progression, to see if this has fixed the "leak" in my game. Just by thinking of my previous games, I think this will help a lot!

Thanks again!
Title: Re: NEW SYSTEM: SINGLE DOZEN
Post by: jekhb76 on March 25, 2017, 06:05:51 AM
@Palestis
The way I see Roulette, like I explained is I'm approuching it as a new job.
You need to work hard to get promotion. In Real life you don't get a promotion over night also.
I've played you system long enough to see every rare event (red flags) on the scoreboard to know what to do.I also use my instinct. whenever i see something that's not right I let the trigger go and let it go idle and wait to things get back to normal again. sure i miss a few trigger here and there, but i'm a patient man, no need to get rich over night. i've been there and burned my hands many time to know that playing roulette is all about patients, not to be creedy and concetration. if you can't handle these things, you will get burned.
I've made myself a business plan, that i stick with.I play 5 nights a week, 2 to three hours an evening. I play with 1€ chips and my win target is €25 euro per night. when i have reached that target i will go home. when i'm tired i'm not goin' at all. i've now played the first level (1€) for the past 20 days. not lost one session. biggest progression so far is 4-4-8. i'm not looking at 500 euro profit. I don't spend any of that. i keep it for my next bank. next week i now can safely start my next lvl of play. (2€) with a bank of 500 euro and a session target now of 50€. this will be my daily focus for the next 2 weeks.

so this is how my business model looks like.

20 days - 1€ chip  for a session target of 25€
after twenty days i have a bank of €500

10 days - 2€ chip for a session target of 50€
after 10 days i have a bank of €1000

10 days - 3€ chip for a session target of 75€
after 10 days i have a bank of €1750

10 days - 4€ chip for a session target of 100€
after 10 days i have a bank of €2750

10 days - 5€ chip for a session target of €150
after 10 days i have a bank of €4250

10 days - 10€ chip for a session target of €200
after 10 days i have a bank of €6250

So to sum up things.
in a bout 2.5 months i will be able to play safely
for a win target of €200 a day with enough bank behind me to back me up at all times.
at this point i will quit my job. and will be playing professional roulette for the next years to come.

as you can see, i've done allot of thinking about this. as i have set plenty target goals.
when i play at my casino i take a break every 30 minutes. when i think i can't reach my daily target i quit and return the next day. i can and will pull this of. because this isn't chasing a dream, this is a new job and i'm ready to make things better for me and my family. (wife and 6 kids) :) i will be at home all day, and at night daddy has to work for 3 hours. before i go and play at thr casino, i make sure i have rested and have eaten on forehand.I always leave my wallet at home. only my bank with me. nothing more, nothing less.
have a great day friends. i 'll keep you all updated of course. stay safe. - Eddy
Title: Re: NEW SYSTEM: SINGLE DOZEN
Post by: Bayes on March 25, 2017, 12:35:45 PM
17   M   
19   M   
15   M   
16   M   
18   M   (All of these M's are ignored, and we SKIP the first trigger after these M's, Correct?)
12   L   (12-18-32 below is not a trigger, Correct? So we try for another trigger starting with #18, correct?)
18   M   
32   H   
17   M   (Isn't this 18-32-17 the FIRST TRIGGER after MMMMM? And we skip this, correct?)

I don't understand why we should skip this last trigger (M H M). The 3 spins prior to it (L M M) are not all the same dozen so why don't we bet?
Title: Re: NEW SYSTEM: SINGLE DOZEN
Post by: TERMINATOR on March 25, 2017, 01:02:31 PM
Bayes, the 3 spins prior to MHM is LMH (not LMM). If it was LMM, then yes, that would be the first trigger. (LMH is not defined as a trigger).

I believe Palestis says to skip the first trigger, regardless of what dozen would be bet on (even if it WERE NOT the same Dozen as the Dozen that was just repeated), as a safeguard against variance.

So, assuming the spin WAS LMM, the first trigger would normally be bet on "L" on the next spin. BUT we skip that and proceed to the NEXT trigger. If the SECOND trigger tells us to bet on L or H, then we make our bet. HOWEVER, if the SECOND trigger tells us we must bet on M, then we SKIP THAT SECOND TRIGGER and go for a third trigger (or 4th, 5th, etc.) until we bet on either L or H.

Palestis says it's better to wait for the roulette wheel to "normalize,", which is why we would skip the first legitimate trigger(s).

Hope this helps, Bayes. Correct me if I'm wrong, Palestis!
Title: Re: NEW SYSTEM: SINGLE DOZEN
Post by: juice on March 25, 2017, 01:15:56 PM
Eddy, I wish you all the luck and skill the world has to offer! Just some friendly advise, you can take it or ignore it.....
Before you attempt this journey, you need a much larger bankroll then what you have stated. I think many here will back me up on this. If you do not have a years worth of personal expenses saved, I would urge you to wait until you do. With 6 kids and a wife, I think their future should be more insured before you quit your job. I am sure you will develope the skill necessary to succeed, but it is a whole different thing when playing for survival, I know because I do it myself.
I had a very successful business for decades prior to making the transition, and many years of practical business experience in manufacturing and managing client and employee expectations as well as running a proper business, to help me with the many mental thing that are needed to stay focused on the goal. I also learned how to lose money, large amounts, fast and furious, and I had it to lose.
I do not know your experience level, and I think you are very serious about your quest, but as an onlooker, I think your enthusiasm has you a bit scattered all over the map with your many styles of play. This game is a funny thing, it can give you so much joy, as you are studying all the possibilities, and leave you SATURATED in too much knowledge at the wrong moment! This particular bet in this post, is a very sound stratagy, and I would encourage you to stick with it, compared to some other plays that I have seen you studying lately. But no matter how much you work your way up from smaller units to the larger ones, nothing quite prepares you for the inevitable downward session when the only way out to recovery is to use your skill combined with a much larger BANK.
I know that all players here on this site would be happy to help you in anyway they can to keep you on the winning path, but in the end, just like when we die, we do it all alone.
Much luck to you in the current and near future, and be very careful, your family is counting on you! If you do not have the confidence that Dr Talos has with the fool proof method to back it up, you might want to pump the breaks and save some more scratch before you start!     With all respect,  The juice
Title: Re: NEW SYSTEM: SINGLE DOZEN
Post by: Bayes on March 25, 2017, 01:19:12 PM
TERM, there seems to be some ambiguity here, let me explain how my tracker is coded (it indicates MHM as a trigger).
At each spin it looks back 3 spins and if the pattern is XXY AND the 3 spins prior to that are NOT all the same, there is a bet.

So applied to the sequence:

17   M   
19   M   
15   M   
16   M   
18   M   
12   L   The trigger is LMM  but the 3 spins prior to it are all the same (M). No bet
18   M   The trigger is MLM but the 3 spins prior to it are all the same (M). Not bet
32   H   There is no trigger because the last 3 spins are not of the form XXY
17   M   The trigger is MHM and the 3 spins prior to it are LMM (i.e, not all the same) so there is a bet (on H).
Title: Re: NEW SYSTEM: SINGLE DOZEN
Post by: Bayes on March 25, 2017, 01:41:49 PM
I believe Palestis says to skip the first trigger, regardless of what dozen would be bet on (even if it WERE NOT the same Dozen as the Dozen that was just repeated), as a safeguard against variance.

Hmm... I don't recall seeing that rule anywhere in the thread. The tracker is currently coded so that if you win on the first or second bet after a trigger then it signals a "no bet" until the trigger is "completed", e.g. only after 3 spins is a new trigger looked for.

      M
      M
      H  trigger (H)
(1) H (win)
(2) L  no bet (even though it would have been L)
(3) L  no bet (even though it would have been H)
      M  (only now look for a new trigger, which is M)

Palestis approved this, but maybe there should be some clarification of the red flag rule:

Quote
2. If the playable target dozen ( Y), has appeared more than 3+ times immediately prior to the trigger. (meaning it has appeared enough times already and runs the risk to disappear when you begin betting it  3 times after the trigger).

Actually, this also applies to the non target dozen, as palestis confirmed when I suggested that both rules 1 & 2 amount to one rule "if any dozen has appeared more than 3+ times immediately prior to the trigger".

I assumed that 3+ times immediately prior to the trigger meant consecutively, i.e. 3+ times in 3+ spins. But if it has appeared 3 times in 4 spins does that also count as a red flag? Seems that it does.

Apologies if this seems like nit-picking, but computers have no initiative whatsoever, they have to be told exactly what to do at all times.  ;D
Title: Re: NEW SYSTEM: SINGLE DOZEN
Post by: iar000 on March 25, 2017, 02:05:32 PM
hi Jek what method or system do you use
Title: Re: NEW SYSTEM: SINGLE DOZEN
Post by: TERMINATOR on March 25, 2017, 02:19:16 PM
Hmm. I never looked at it this way before, Bayes. Maybe it's different when you make a program?


So applied to the sequence:

17   M   
19   M   
15   M   
16   M   
18   M   
12   L   The trigger is LMM  but the 3 spins prior to it are all the same (M). No bet
18   M   The trigger is MLM but the 3 spins prior to it are all the same (M). Not bet
32   H   There is no trigger because the last 3 spins are not of the form XXY
17   M   The trigger is MHM and the 3 spins prior to it are LMM (i.e, not all the same) so there is a bet (on H).

To me, the first appearance of MMMMM is ignored completely. The very next spin (12 L) is going to be the first number of a possible trigger, so we wait for those 3 spins first:

12 L
18 M
32 H

And this would be the first consideration for a trigger. Since LMH is not a trigger, we look at the very next spin after the #12: We get the following:

18
32
17

THAT is the first trigger. The other "triggers" you mentioned included the string from MMMMM, and I believe this is never included as part of a trigger.

Palestis also confirmed this was the first trigger when he said:

"The sequence M was 17-19-15-16-18. Yes we skip the first trigger (18-32-17)." in his reply #161.

I believe Palestis says to skip the first trigger, regardless of what dozen would be bet on (even if it WERE NOT the same Dozen as the Dozen that was just repeated), as a safeguard against variance.

Hmm... I don't recall seeing that rule anywhere in the thread.

I believe this is his quote from an earlier post:

Quote
"If there is a sequence of numbers like 25-30-27-32-10-8-21 you avoid betting the 10-8-21 trigger (too many numbers in the 3rd dozen  preceding  the trigger). Indicating a streak that might continue in a dozen that is not the target."

So, the above spins would look like:

25 H
30 H
27 H
32 H
(All the above spins are IGNORED for the next trigger, because they repeated 3+ times)
10 L
8 L
21 M
(This is the first trigger. Even though "M" would be bet, and not H, we still skip this first trigger and proceed to the SECOND trigger).

If the SECOND trigger tells us to bet on M or L, then we bet. If it tells us to bet on H, we wait for the next trigger.

At least, this is my understanding.

Title: Re: NEW SYSTEM: SINGLE DOZEN
Post by: TERMINATOR on March 25, 2017, 02:45:24 PM
Bayes wrote:
Quote
I assumed that 3+ times immediately prior to the trigger meant consecutively, i.e. 3+ times in 3+ spins. But if it has appeared 3 times in 4 spins does that also count as a red flag? Seems that it does.

Hmm, I don't believe it counts. I think it must appear 3 times or more in a row.

Here's another quote from an earlier post:

Quote
12-9-8 30-25-2. You avoid, because the target dozen in the trigger already came at least 3 times in a row.  Then it becomes a little risky to bet that the same dozen will show up again.  (just a legitimate precaution).

Title: Re: NEW SYSTEM: SINGLE DOZEN
Post by: Bayes on March 25, 2017, 02:51:39 PM
TERM, probably best if I send palestis the tracker and let him see where it's going wrong, if indeed it is. I'm just getting more confused.  :'(

In any case, the system as coded in the tracker is producing excellent results, and palestis did say that minor variations are ok. :D
Title: Re: NEW SYSTEM: SINGLE DOZEN
Post by: TERMINATOR on March 25, 2017, 03:19:24 PM
That's a good idea. Maybe I'll work on a better explanation of this system, point by point, once Palestis clarifies our concerns.
Title: Re: NEW SYSTEM: SINGLE DOZEN
Post by: Harryj on March 25, 2017, 04:12:51 PM
For the 3rd time today. I'll try again.
        The main difference between my play and Pals is that I use DS to form "unatural" dozens, and I use a 5 spin progression. I also restart after MMM.LLL.HHH. or MHL or zero.eg. MMM/restart. MML/this is a trigger, but can we trust it ? MLM/another trigger ? After 6 M's in 7 spins we should see some H's & L's. It's a maybe. LMH/ no bet. MLM/ again those M's clearly we are in the n midst of a large variance.
Title: Re: NEW SYSTEM: SINGLE DOZEN
Post by: jekhb76 on March 25, 2017, 04:16:12 PM
i forgot to add something.

1. it's not a must that you need to reach target everyday.
sometimes it doesn't go the way you had hoped for.
example; i've had a few session where my daily target was 25 units, but somehow it just didn't reached it. some back to back losses, a power problem :) etc. at some point i was only 10 units in profit, but spend almost 2 hours trying to reach the 25 unit mark. i was tired and i had two options. try to make it and risk to be in debt because of something i hadn't control about or because i would make mistakes because j was tired. or quit and take the 10 units home. i would always choose the 2nd option. so what' Rome wasn't also build in on day. i never chase a target if i can't reach it, because there is always another day.

2. what i also would recomend is to have a safety bank prepaired.
Let's say you are betting with 1 unit chips, then your bank is 100x times your base bet. in this case 100 units.
but what i would recomed when you are playing with high value chips is to have a safety bank with you also.
So from 5 unit base bet. 500 unit bank and 500 unit safety bank.
if something happens to your bank, you will always have a backup. this is how it will play ot from now on. i will never go 1 lvl higher untill i have 2 times my bank.
Recomend for high betting.

5€ BB (€500 B + €500 SB) €1000 to play this bet.

10BB (€1000 B + €1000 SB) 2000 to play this bet

3. Don't drink Alcohol while playing!
😊
Title: Re: NEW SYSTEM: SINGLE DOZEN
Post by: Harryj on March 25, 2017, 04:33:51 PM
OK that one mafe it.
         I am strongly against the type of progression that Bayes suggested. I believe that type of progression works best with "sleeper" triggers. My choice is definitely a Marty, but my definition of a Marty may not be the same as your's. To me a marty is any progression that ENDS with a single win. EVEN IF THE OVERALL RESULT IS A LOSS. eg. 1,2,4,8/15 is a 4step Marty costing 1 u. 1,2,3,5/11a 4 step Marty costing 11u. Steps 1 & 2 win 1u step 3 breaks even and 4 loses 1 u. As roulette is essentially an even game the difference between the total loss of 4 units and the loss of 1u on bet 4 represents a bottom line gain. Even if the break even at bet 3 is considered we still have a substantial gain. Even more important 75% of our 1st 2 bets can be expected to win. An even bigger gain.
         Bayes seems to understand "insurance" betting. Perhaps he can explain it better than I.
Title: Re: NEW SYSTEM: SINGLE DOZEN
Post by: Reyth on March 25, 2017, 04:58:09 PM
https://youtu.be/CCISSevvGpA

OOPS looks like the post got eaten!  But did it actually!??

3) Hit Ctrl-V

Hey Harry J!  Here is a post that I guarantee won't get eaten by even the worst forum variance!

sdflkjsd;fkljsd;kjfsdf

sdfklhsdfkjhsdfc

sdfkljsdfkjhsdfkhsdf

sdfkjhsdfkhsdfkhsdf

[tip the forum]

ok finally done.

Now:

1) HIT CTRL-A
2) HIT CTRL-C
Title: Re: NEW SYSTEM: SINGLE DOZEN
Post by: palestis on March 25, 2017, 10:49:11 PM
@Terminator:
The problem is that I am not familiar with computerized testing. So I have to ask you how do you test it?
Do you plug the numbers to the program and push a button and the program does the rest?
And then you get a summary on excel like the one you usually post?
If that's the case then I understand that you have to have all instructions predetermined. Like trigger choice, red flag avoidance, exact skipping of numbers, various types of progression etc.
The program cannot use a 6th sense, like an actual player does from time to time.
             Or is it that you plug the numbers in the program and then you process it number  by number as if you were actually playing in a live situation? 
If it is totally computerized, it's best to use only 2 red flags. To avoid confusion, not only to the player but to the program too.
One is to avoid a trigger where the target dozen in the chosen trigger,  appeared several times before the trigger.
And the other is to stop at 2 lost bets, if after trigger XXY you get XX again.
The other precautions are not as important.
They are rather useful for resilient players like "Jekhb76" and some people I know, that they rather not give the casino the chance to win even one spin. (not that it is always possible).
As far as the 0 it's best to skip it and start a trigger after that.
But if you see for example 13-0-20- 32,   and use 13-20-32 as trigger it's not a big deal.
I have done that way and came up with basically the same results.
         In other words the extra precautions will not make the difference between winning and losing.
The system results will be basically the same. -
Title: Re: NEW SYSTEM: SINGLE DOZEN
Post by: TERMINATOR on March 25, 2017, 11:35:57 PM
Hi Palestis, I have been testing your method manually though Excel. I copy and paste real spins from real casinos into excel, then I play them as I would live, spin by spin.

Thank you for answering my questions. I think I have a good understanding of your method now.

While waiting for your response, I did a REDO on my TWO WORST GAMES (as far as highest levels reached are concerned), based on the clarifications you gave me. HERE ARE THE RESULTS!!!!

                       Highest Level Reached   Highest Bet Made

Old Game #8:             6 (twice)         32 units
New Game #8:            3                       8 units

Old Game #18:             8 (YIKES!)         128 units (DOUBLE YIKES!)
New Game #18:            3                       4 units (WTF? WTF! WTF!?!?!?)

WOW, what a difference! I think you fixed the leak in my game, Palestsis! Thank you.

If I may ask one more question. In a situation like this:

MMMLLLHHH

I would SKIP the first trigger, but after the SECOND trigger I would NOT bet on "H" correct? I would be looking to bet on either M or L. Yes? (Even though both L and H had a streak, but they are older than the M streak).

Thanks again! I am so excited. Even though I have NEVER had a losing session when I was playing WRONG, I can only imagine how much better it will be now!
Title: Re: NEW SYSTEM: SINGLE DOZEN
Post by: TERMINATOR on March 26, 2017, 12:03:38 AM
Bayes, I feel confident I have a strong handle on Palestis's Method now. If you still need clarification for the programming your doing on your tracker, feel free to PM or E-mail me if your concerns are not being cleared up on this thread. I'll be happy to help clear the air.

This was very confusing for me too, but I understand now. Thanks again Palestis!
Title: Re: NEW SYSTEM: SINGLE DOZEN
Post by: palestis on March 26, 2017, 12:08:06 AM
If I may ask one more question. In a situation like this:

MMMLLLHHH

I would SKIP the first trigger, but after the SECOND trigger I would NOT bet on "H" correct? I would be looking to bet on either M or L. Yes? (Even though both L and H had a streak, but they are older than the M streak).

Thanks again! I am so excited. Even though I have NEVER had a losing session when I was playing WRONG, I can only imagine how much better it will be now!
From the sequence you gave me the first trigger is MML. (correct?)  (which by the way won in the first bet as L came).
The second trigger is LLH (correct?). Which it also won in the first bet, with the second H.
As you can see both triggers have a target as the  dozen that it was not predominant in the previous spins. Technically you can bet both triggers. But just to be on the safe side you can skip the whole sequence and wait for a few more numbers to break this repetitive sequence.
Since you said that after importing the numbers in the excel sheet, you process it manually, you can easily skip spins when the sequence looks pepetitive.
You mentioned that in the sequence MMMLLLHHH the L and H steak was older than the M streak.
Can you confirm that, because to me it look like the M streak is older.
Title: Re: NEW SYSTEM: SINGLE DOZEN
Post by: palestis on March 26, 2017, 12:21:33 AM
@ Terminator.
Is this the 32 units that you bet on game 8?
Where does the start  of betting occur on the excel sheet? And do you underline the trigger?
Is it where you have the l,h,m
I'd like to understand how you use the sheet.
Title: Re: NEW SYSTEM: SINGLE DOZEN
Post by: TERMINATOR on March 26, 2017, 12:40:14 AM
Hi Palestis, on the Excel Sheet, I will use spin #84 to explain my actions.

Under the "BET" column, I placed an "L". This means that at spin #84, I will start betting for "L" for no more than 3 spins. The 3 spins immediately PRIOR to spin #84 is the trigger I am betting on (in this case, LMM).

The ORIG column are the bets I lose and won. "-32" means I bet 32 units and lost (being the 6th level reached). At spin #85, I won, so the number 64 is colored green (profit from a 32 unit bet).

The "$O" column is a running count of the HIGH I reached for the game as it progresses. Which is why I only enter a number here on each win. I get this number automatically from the running total on the top right of this document.

I hope this clarifies it? If not, I'll be happy to explain more.

I have an updated Excel sheet, which is basically the same but easier to use. It ONLY focuses on the Dozens, and ONLY on your progression. And your progression is listed in an easy to see manner. And the "Highest Level, Bet, and Debt" is available as well. I have attached a blank document here for your use.

Title: Re: NEW SYSTEM: SINGLE DOZEN
Post by: TERMINATOR on March 26, 2017, 12:48:57 AM
?!?!?!?!?!?!?       ?!?!?!?!?!?!?

Palestis, I thought I had a grip on your method. I have a clarification question concerning the MMMLLLHHH question.

I was under the impression that if a series of 3+ appears, then we IGNORE that "streak of 3" for a trigger. In other words, the first MMM we would ignore, and not use any of those M's for a trigger.

The reason I say this is because of your statement in REPLY #161. Please clarify.

This is what I asked:

Quote
17   M   
19   M   
15   M   
16   M   
18   M   (All of these M's are ignored, and we SKIP the first trigger after these M's, Correct?)
12   L   (12-18-32 below is not a trigger, Correct? So we try for another trigger starting with #18, correct?)
18   M   
32   H   
17   M

And you replied:

Quote
The sequence M was 17-19-15-16-18. Yes we skip the first trigger 18-32-17).


So, in this example, we both ignored MMMMM as far as the trigger is concerned. And we only look at possible triggers AFTER the MMM sequence ends. Otherwise, you would have said:

(M)
(M)
(M)
16 M
18 M
12 L


Is the first trigger. But you skipped all the M's, and agreed that "18-32-17" was the first trigger.

Which is why I am now confused about your MMMLLLHHH response.

QUESTION: Why are you using "MML" as the first trigger in the MMMLLLHHH sequence? But in reply #161, you did NOT use:

16 M
18 M
12 L

as the first trigger in the MMMMML sequence???

Please clarify this. This is where Bayes and I are at an impasse. Thank you.

PS. Yes, I made a typo. The M and L  streaks are older than the H streak in the MMMLLLHHH example I gave. My bad.
Title: Re: NEW SYSTEM: SINGLE DOZEN
Post by: palestis on March 26, 2017, 01:40:48 AM
@Terminator.
I will study your questions and will post back.
But I want to say something very important.
The only reason I came up with the so called red flags is because during my lengthy tests I only run into one or maybe 2  4 back to back losses. 3 were rare as well.
Your  game #18, I processed it without paying attention to any red flags. 
Straight thru without looking what came before the trigger.
And as you can see from the picture,  it came out just fine. Only a couple level 2 losses and just a few single level losses.
I find it strange that in this game you observed 8 level losses.
Study  my results and compare them to the way you tested it.
I very  much doubt that the precautions you were observing caused the level 8 loss.
I really find it very strange that you came up with a level 8 loss.
Here is the thing.
If you can handle an occasional, yet rare,   level 3 loss and in extremely rare occasions a level 4 loss, then you don't need to watch out for any red flags.
As I said the only reason I stipulated them is to avoid running into a level 4 loss even if that happens in extremely rare occasions.
You seemed to have handled level 6 losses and level 8 losses well  and you still prevailed.
Rest assured that ignoring any red flags you will never see anything above level 4. And that will take long time to see it.
Look at the picture and you will see that I circled every trigger I run into. Regardless of what came before the trigger. Game #18 would've been a complete success had it been played in a real casino.
Let me know
Title: Re: NEW SYSTEM: SINGLE DOZEN
Post by: TERMINATOR on March 26, 2017, 02:07:36 AM
Thank you, I'll study your game. At a cursory glance, it looks pretty close to the REDO game I already did on this. But I will study it closely.

Again, the reason my games were getting high on the progression was because I was having trouble understanding some of your methods. (For example, when there was a streak of M's, I would still bet on "M" after the next trigger. I had no idea I was NOT supposed to do this).

Anyway, Bayes and I look forward to your reply to my previous post. Thanks for attaching this game for me to study!
Title: Re: NEW SYSTEM: SINGLE DOZEN
Post by: palestis on March 26, 2017, 02:43:42 AM
?!?!?!?!?!?!?       ?!?!?!?!?!?!?

QUESTION: Why are you using "MML" as the first trigger in the MMMLLLHHH sequence? But in reply #161, you did NOT use:

16 M
18 M
12 L

as the first trigger in the MMMMML sequence???

Please clarify this. This is where Bayes and I are at an impasse. Thank you.

Your attention to detail is remarkable and that's one of the best virtues in roulette.
In the sequence you gave me MMMLLLHHH I didn't really say that  I was going to use MML as the first trigger. I simply meant that this would've been the 1st trigger if everything was to be ignored. (which coincidentally won). I also said that the 2nd trigger would've been the LLH (again if we ignored  any red flags). And I said afterwards  that I would skip the entire series until  a more normal sequence showed up that complied with the rules. I guess I tried to make the distinction between pointing out a trigger, as opposed to pointing it out and using it.
As far as my #161 post where I didn't use the 16-18-12 trigger which contradicts  my statement in the MMMLLLHHH example  (  if I actually used MML), maybe it was an oversight. Or simply I wanted to get away from the M streak. If I used 16-18-12 in that test the result would've been 2 back to back losses. Then back to normal after that.
As I said before skipping a trigger by mistake or using a trigger that was supposed to be avoided, should not penalize the system, by causing it to crash. It's not an accounting balance sheet where one mistake will screw up an entire financial statement.  A good system should easily overcome  an interruption from a continuous flow.  Otherwise it's not a good system. 
And a witness to this fact is the Game#18 which I processed and displayed it in the previous post.
I ignored all red flags and still came out a champion. 
You need to study it carefully and see what you did differently to come up with the  level 8 loss.

Title: Re: NEW SYSTEM: SINGLE DOZEN
Post by: palestis on March 26, 2017, 03:22:30 AM
@Terminator
I also processed the Game# 18 again, but this time with attention paid to the red flags.
As you can see the results were equally good, with the added bonus a second level 2 loss did not happen. (which happened in the previous all inclusive test).
However there were lesser betting and winning opportunities, compared to the first test posted above. But in real life with many roulettes under observation the betting opportunities would increase.  If you see a strange sequence, rather than waiting and wondering what to do, you move on to another table where things are normal.
And that's what the red flags are all about. To avoid back to back level 3 losses, Because level 4 is extremely rare. Level 5 I have yet to see it.

 
Title: Re: NEW SYSTEM: SINGLE DOZEN
Post by: TERMINATOR on March 26, 2017, 06:18:26 AM
Hi Palestis, I just got home and am about to go over your notes to Games #18. After I study it, I'll get back to you.

In the meantime, let me tell you specifically what I ORIGINALLY did in Game #18 (actually, the first 20 games I played), to arrive at the 8th level, in case you were really wondering. I know exactly what I did (and I mentioned this already in a previous post). There were 3 main reasons.

FIRST: When there was any streak of 3+ (i.e., MMM), I would skip the entire streak, and I would not use ANY of those numbers for my first trigger. I would only use the FOLLOWING three spins for a possible trigger.

I now realize that you CAN use the M's from this streak for the next trigger, depending. (i.e., MMML). Actually, I'm not so sure now...waiting on your clarification.

SECOND: If a Trigger had to be skipped (i.e., 5, 17, 15), I would SKIP ALL 3 NUMBERS, and wait for the NEXT 3 spins to see if that triggered.

I now realize I can use numbers from that SKIPPED trigger, and use those as part of my NEXT trigger (i.e., 5, 17, 15, 36). Isn't this correct, Palestis?

THIRD: When there was a streak (i.e, MMM), I did not know I was NOT supposed to bet on that dominant Dozen.

I now realize I AVOID betting on that dominant dozen the next time I make a bet.

Quite a few of my games got pretty high in the progression by doing this. If you look at the bets I made, you will see this is how I got to the 8th level. Anyway, I'll get back to you when I finish looking at your work on Game #18
Title: Re: NEW SYSTEM: SINGLE DOZEN
Post by: TERMINATOR on March 26, 2017, 06:47:17 AM
Palestis, your reply #187 is VERY confusing to me. There must be some kind of mis-communication. I am not receiving a clear answer from you. Both Bayes and I are confused.

Please allow me to ask my question in a different way.  I THINK I know the answers, just need verification. I hope you can simply tell me what YOU would do in this situation, so that we may take advantage of the RED FLAGS you gave us. Okay? (I'll give you my answers at end of post)

All spins prior to this example were normal, and no zeros were spun:

12 L
10 L
5 L
16 M
18 M
36 H
20 M
1 L
2 L

Now, there is a STREAK of 3 L's.

QUESTION 1: Can you simply tell me SPECIFICALLY what the FIRST trigger is when taking into account your Red Flags?

QUESTION #2: Can you tell me what the SECOND trigger is?

QUESTION #3: Which trigger do we bet on in the above example?

That's all for now. Thank you.

My Answers FOLLOW:

Answer #1: 1st trigger:
16 M
18 M
36 H

Answer #2: 2nd trigger:
For the passed few weeks, I thought it would be:

20 M
1 L
2 L

But now, from your prior replies, I think the answer might be:

18 M
36 H
20 M

Answer #3:which trigger do we bet?
Well, if the SECOND trigger is MHM, we bet the SECOND trigger for "M.
BUT if the SECOND trigger is "MLL" We SKIP this second trigger, because we cannot bet "L" because of the streak of L's. So, we find a THIRD trigger, and bet for M or H.

I have a question about the game #18 you played, but I'll wait for your reply to this first, Palestis. Thanks!

Title: Re: NEW SYSTEM: SINGLE DOZEN
Post by: Bayes on March 26, 2017, 07:05:25 AM
         I am strongly against the type of progression that Bayes suggested. I believe that type of progression works best with "sleeper" triggers. My choice is definitely a Marty, but my definition of a Marty may not be the same as your's. To me a marty is any progression that ENDS with a single win. EVEN IF THE OVERALL RESULT IS A LOSS. eg. 1,2,4,8/15 is a 4step Marty costing 1 u. 1,2,3,5/11a 4 step Marty costing 11u. Steps 1 & 2 win 1u step 3 breaks even and 4 loses 1 u. As roulette is essentially an even game the difference between the total loss of 4 units and the loss of 1u on bet 4 represents a bottom line gain. Even if the break even at bet 3 is considered we still have a substantial gain. Even more important 75% of our 1st 2 bets can be expected to win. An even bigger gain.
Bayes seems to understand "insurance" betting. Perhaps he can explain it better than I.

I can add a "custom progression" option on the tracker. This will be defined in separate text files (one for each doz/col/DS). This would give a lot of flexibility; you could even include initial zero stakes in the progression which would simulate "virtual" bets. The default progression is currently the standard 1,1,2,2,2,4,4... increasing after a loss and remaining fixed after a win assuming you're not at new high balance. However, you can override this behaviour by clicking on any value in the progression list which will set the next stake to the currently selected value.

BTW, I need a name for the tracker, and since the system itself doesn't have one and it seems to have been designed jointly by Palestis and Harry, how about "Palestis harry Dozen" system - the PhD System, or "Dr. Dozen".  ;D
Title: Re: NEW SYSTEM: SINGLE DOZEN
Post by: TERMINATOR on March 26, 2017, 07:09:24 AM
I choose the PhD SYSTEM, because I'm going to need to visit one soon if I don't figure this damn thing out!  :o
Title: Re: NEW SYSTEM: SINGLE DOZEN
Post by: TERMINATOR on March 26, 2017, 07:23:15 AM
        The main difference between my play and Pals is that I use DS to form "unatural" dozens, and I use a 5 spin progression.

Hi Harry. I'm just curious what your 5 spin progression looks like. Can you share it? I love experimenting with different progressions. Thanks!

Quote
I also restart after MMM.LLL.HHH. or MHL or zero.eg. MMM/restart.

Very smart. This is the way I've been playing too (except I ignore single zeros).
Title: Re: NEW SYSTEM: SINGLE DOZEN
Post by: jekhb76 on March 26, 2017, 10:48:30 AM
Good morning friends,

I have read the previous posts with much care and i have to say that you make it all to confusing.
And when your mind is not clear you are gonna make mistakes sooner ot later.

You don't need to play every trigger you see. I know that you don't play every trigger but if you have the patients, please only play normal sequence triggers. By this i mean. LMH are your last dozens, then followed by M (play H) or H (play M) Everytime when one or more of the same dozens are prior the trigger, i just skip it and wait for the next oppertunity to come. it takes more time and the profits are less by the end of the evening, but it is al about leaving the casino as a winner. Also when i see a zero in i let it go idle and wait until he is out for 6-10 mumbers.
Zero's mostly come in packs, so it's best to let it go for a few spins and not use any trigger that come in the next 6 spins or so. mostly when i see a zero, i'm gonna go and take a break and drink some coffee :) and then come back after 10 minutes or so. So the way i've been playing this system for the last few weeks, almost every day, and i never reached lvl 6 bet (32) highest bet i needed to make to regain profit is when i had 3 back to back losses and needed to play 8-8-16 but won on the first 8. always bet with different dozens previous your trigger and leave the zero's out. i takes allot more time. but I only needed 25 euro profit every night, usualy takes about 2 hours before reached by playing my method. but i never lost one session in the last 3 weeks. i have a stop loss of +25 / -50 with a bank of 100-150 and base bet of 1 unit. i know it is not a very pleasand playstyle and the profits are not high, but trust me, it gives a great feeling when you go home with a few bucks in your pocket. tonight i start my 10 days trial at lvl 2 (2u Base bet) stop loss at +50 /-100 with a bank of 200-250
try it the way i said and come back on this. have a great sunday friends. - Eddy
Title: Re: NEW SYSTEM: SINGLE DOZEN
Post by: Harryj on March 26, 2017, 11:39:44 AM
@ Bayes,
            The single zero seems to be a balanced situation. I started playing g that way, but as data built up I found it could be ignored.
     Obviously the starting bet depends on how the minimum bet is structured. At my casino the inside bets can be made up of 5 x1u bets to make a table minimum of 5u. Therefore the basic bet is 3u on each DS
BET  = TOTAL..PAYOUT..PROFIT/LOSS.

(1)3...3....6....6....18....12
(2)4...4....8...14...24....10
(3)5...5...10..24...30.....6
(4)6...6...12..36...36.....0
(5) 9...9..18..54...54.....0 or (5)8...8...16..52...48...-4

   This type of bet can be juggled endlessly. Depending on results obtained by research and the W/L ratio achieved. In the current case the bulk of the wins occur within 3 spins. The added bets merely improve the W/L ratio and make back to back losses less likely.This enables me to play without an6 increase to my basic bet, after a loss. While even a small increase recovers very quickly.
     While this trigger was invented to take advantage of the "flow"
Title: Re: NEW SYSTEM: SINGLE DOZEN
Post by: Harryj on March 26, 2017, 11:47:35 AM
While this method was invented to take advantage of the "flow". On a professional level it works best with intermitant play as advised by Pal and jekd76. That way it is easier to pick out the maybe triggers and increase certainty.
            The original name I gave to this trigger was the "ODD DOZEN" . I don't suppose it matters what you call it. As long as you win.
Title: Re: NEW SYSTEM: SINGLE DOZEN
Post by: Reyth on March 26, 2017, 12:59:46 PM
tonight i start my 10 days trial at lvl 2 (2u Base bet) stop loss at +50 /-100 with a bank of 200-250
try it the way i said and come back on this. have a great sunday friends. - Eddy

ABSOLUTELY GRATS DEWD!

(http://www.gifmania.co.uk/Messages-Animated-Gifs/Animated-Congratulations/Congratulations-Applause-84496.gif)
Title: Re: NEW SYSTEM: SINGLE DOZEN
Post by: palestis on March 26, 2017, 01:32:04 PM
Palestis, your reply #187 is VERY confusing to me. There must be some kind of mis-communication. I am not receiving a clear answer from you. Both Bayes and I are confused.

Please allow me to ask my question in a different way.  I THINK I know the answers, just need verification. I hope you can simply tell me what YOU would do in this situation, so that we may take advantage of the RED FLAGS you gave us. Okay? (I'll give you my answers at end of post)

All spins prior to this example were normal, and no zeros were spun:

12 L
10 L
5 L
16 M
18 M
36 H
20 M
1 L
2 L

Now, there is a STREAK of 3 L's.

QUESTION 1: Can you simply tell me SPECIFICALLY what the FIRST trigger is when taking into account your Red Flags?

QUESTION #2: Can you tell me what the SECOND trigger is?

QUESTION #3: Which trigger do we bet on in the above example?

Ok . Here is what I would do:
The first trigger to bet would be 16-18-36. Betting 3 spins targeting H,  brings 20-1-2.
(level-1 loss).
Then there is no 2nd trigger to use. I have to wait for new fresh numbers, because 20-1-2 were already used as the result of  actual bets. (therefore 20-1-2 cannot be a trigger).
The reason I used 16-18-36 ( despite LLL above it), was because the XX (16-18) was unrelated to the LLL. In  addition, the Y ( target dozen) was also unrelated to the LLL. 
Don't worry, eventually the confusion will be cleared.
As Jekhb76 has mentioned, he only run into  level-3  losses, and I am sure that it doesn't happen very often to him. Which coincides with my long term tests.
Also, I have to  mention that a friend of mine plays the same system with a twist,
But what he does is, he lets the 3 bets lose VIRTUALLY in the first trigger he encounters.
Then he bets the very next trigger he encounters. 
It takes more time to play that way, but it  increases his certainty.
So there is plenty of flexibility in playing this system.

PS: I think a have an idea where the confusion comes from.
As you pick the 1st trigger don't forget that this trigger  requires 3 bets. So don't go back and pick another trigger involving prior numbers especially those who were used as the result of the 3 bets.
We start with fresh numbers by waiting for the roulette to spin them.
Or better yet, we move to another roulette table

Title: Re: NEW SYSTEM: SINGLE DOZEN
Post by: TERMINATOR on March 26, 2017, 02:57:20 PM
Help. I need Clarification

Quote
The first trigger to bet would be 16-18-36. Betting 3 spins targeting H,  brings 20-1-2.
(level-1 loss).
Then there is no 2nd trigger to use. I have to wait for new fresh numbers, because 20-1-2 were already used as the result of  actual bets. (therefore 20-1-2 cannot be a trigger).
The reason I used 16-18-36 ( despite LLL above it), was because the XX (16-18) was unrelated to the LLL. In  addition, the Y ( target dozen) was also unrelated to the LLL. 

Okay. Palestis, did you change your method since you first began posting on this thread? Your answer above is totally different than what you told us to do at the beginning of this thread. This is why I am so confused. I have been using your method as you described it in the beginning.

I am going to quote 2 of your earlier posts (because this is how I've been playing). Then I will return to your answer above.

Both of the following quotes relate to your RULE #1 of your Red Flags, which states:

RULE #1: "If the same dozen appears more than 3+ times immediately preceding the trigger (it's a sign of anomaly that can affect the rest of the dozens)."

First Quote:
Palestis Reply #5

Quote
Yes 3+ repeats preceding the trigger, is a cause of concern. All you have to do is wait idle a few more spins, to break the streak.

My Interpretation:
This tells me, after a sequence such as:

12 L
10 L
5 L

Then, we WAIT 3 more spins BEFORE choosing our first trigger. So, if the following 3 spins AFTER the LLL streak were a VALID TRIGGER (no matter if it had an L in it or not), then we SKIP the first trigger and proceed to the SECOND trigger.

Confirmation of this is in the following post:

Second Quote:
Palestis Reply #39   

Quote
If there is a sequence of numbers like 25-30-27-32-10-8-21 you avoid betting the 10-8-21 trigger (too many numbers in the 3rd dozen  preceding  the trigger). Indicating a streak that might continue in a dozen that is not the target.

So, the above spins, from your example, would look like:

25 H
30 H
27 H
32 H
(All the above spins are a streak of 3+, which means we skip the first trigger)
10 L
8 L
21 M


This is the first trigger (in red). Even though "M" would be bet, and not H (the streak of dominant dozens), we still skip this first trigger and proceed to the SECOND trigger.

This is what you told us earlier, Palestis. And this is how I've been playing all my games for the passed few weeks.

NOW, if we compare your above posts with your recent answer to my example of the following scenario:

12 L
10 L
5 L
16 M
18 M
36 H
20 M
1 L
2 L

According to your above 2 posts, we are supposed to SKIP the first trigger (in red) even if it does NOT have the dominant dozen within it.

But instead, you are now telling me the opposite:

Quote
The first trigger to bet would be 16-18-36. Betting 3 spins targeting H, The reason I used 16-18-36 ( despite LLL above it), was because the XX (16-18) was unrelated to the LLL.

This seems to contradict your quotes from your posts # 5 and #39, where you SKIPPED the FIRST trigger, whether they were related to the Streak of Dominant Dozens or not.

Can you please clarify this? Thank you. If you changed your strategy, that's fine. I just want to understand the basics of WHAT the first trigger IS after a sequence of 3+.

Quote
I think a have an idea where the confusion comes from. As you pick the 1st trigger don't forget that this trigger  requires 3 bets.

Yes, I am aware of that, Palestis. And if the first 2 bets are a repeat of the dominant dozen, then we only make 2 bets instead of 3. RULE #2 from your Red Flags, yes?

Title: Re: NEW SYSTEM: SINGLE DOZEN
Post by: jekhb76 on March 26, 2017, 03:12:12 PM
Yes that is what i do also. I never use a dozen for a trigger from a previous bet. i always start with a fresh set of three numbers. When a zero is part of those new numbers, i let that go by also and wait again for a fresh new bet.
It takes indeed more time, but it will benefit at the end.

Regarding my business plan i mentioned earlier; Because i'm trying to be a professional roulette player and try to make my living out of it (no i don't need the money for my family to survive) we can live from my wife's income.
But i want to make sure i rule everything out as much as i can and i have now the starting capital to do so.
I'm changing tactics.

The last weeks i won in total over 1100 euro with roulette and 90% with this system.

I have calculated that a 7 back to back loss would come once in a lifetime, but i don't want (when it does happen)
to ruin my investment.

As i told before, I have a business plan. well from now on i want to be able to cover that once in a lifetime event.

so i recommend the following (you don't need to do it this way, it's just my safety net)

This is what i've changed.
--------------------------------------------------------------------
I play 1 level every 2 months:

Level 1: €1 Base Bet.
Target €25  Bank €260     Safety Bank €260 TB €520   x 50 Days  €1250,- Profit. Max B/B losses Possible: 7

Level 2: €2 Base Bet.
Target €50  Bank €520     Safety Bank €520 TB €1040 x 50 Days  €2500,- Profit. Max B/B losses Possible: 7

Level 3: €3 Base Bet.
Target €75  Bank €780     Safety Bank €780  TB €1560 x 50 Days  €3750,- Profit. Max B/B losses Possible: 7

Level 4: €4 Base Bet.
Target €100 Bank €1040  Safety Bank €1040 TB €2080 x 50 Days €5000,- Profit. Max B/B losses Possible 7

After 8 months I earn around 100 euro a day. 2000 euro a month and I'm prepared for that once in a lifetime event of 7 back to back losses.

I may change this over time to make it even better, but for now i'm ready.
Tonight I start my lvl 2 for the next 2 months. Keep you all posted. Eddy

Title: Re: NEW SYSTEM: SINGLE DOZEN
Post by: TERMINATOR on March 26, 2017, 03:29:36 PM
@ Bayes,
(1)3...3....6....6....18....12
(2)4...4....8...14...24....10

Hi Harry, thanks for sharing your 5 step progression. But I'm not sure I understand what all the figures mean. I think I may be a little slow. Can you clarify the following?

(1) 3...3....6....6....18....12

My understanding is that this is spin #1, and you bet 3 units on each of the 2 Dozens (that the 3...3 in the above line).

I'm unclear as to the following numbers, though..."6....6....18....12." Can you clarify?

And I am assuming for spin Number 2, you increase your bets to 4 units each if spin #1 lost?

(2)4...4....

Thank you for clarifying this.
Title: Re: NEW SYSTEM: SINGLE DOZEN
Post by: Sheridan44 on March 26, 2017, 05:14:53 PM
The way I'm treating the "red flag" stuff is not too technical. I could drive myself crazy with it.
I've got a pretty good handle on what to watch out for.....so I basically scan the immediate prior results for anything that looks "screwy". I like the dozens to flow nice and somewhat blase' (a "normal" XXY/XYX/XYY type pattern - if you will). I move on past zeroes, packs of same dozens, clusters, and other anomalies. I want to get to the point to where I can glance at a certain number of results and decide whether it's a go, or a no-go.
Title: OPEN QUESTION
Post by: TERMINATOR on March 26, 2017, 07:23:33 PM
OPEN QUESTION TO ALL . . . Please help clarify the TRIGGERS

Hi Sheridan44, thanks for your reply. I have a good idea as to what to look out for also. And BEFORE we place a BET, we look for a TRIGGER. Correct? This whole method is based upon the TRIGGERS. Now, I know WHAT a trigger is. That's no problem.

My problem comes down to this: I cannot get a straight answer as to where the triggers are. That's all! I get a difference answer every time I ask! Maybe it's my autism preventing me from understanding, I don't know.

Can I post an OPEN question to everyone? Everyone in this thread, can you PLEASE tell me what you would do in the following situation? Give me your thoughts? Please help clarify this for me?

HERE is the situation UP TO THIS POINT in the roulette spins:

All spins prior to this example were normal, and no zeros were spun. Everything has been going great! Our last spin we WON. Then, we get the following spins:

12 L
10 L
5 L
16 M
18 M
36 H
20 M
1 L
2 L

QUESTION #1: Where SPECIFICALLY is the FIRST trigger? (i.e., MMH?)

QUESTION #2: Where SPECIFICALLY is the SECOND trigger? (i.e., MHM or MLL?)

QUESTION #3: Which trigger do we use to place our bet? (1st, 2nd, or wait for another?)

Feel free to expand on your replies. I already gave my answers in REPLY #190 (at bottom of post). Thank you for giving me yours, and for helping me understand.
Title: Re: NEW SYSTEM: SINGLE DOZEN
Post by: jekhb76 on March 26, 2017, 08:23:27 PM
@Terminator

12 L
10 L  First Trigger)
05 L  Second Trigger)
16 M  This is your first bet - Bet 1 unit)
18 M  WON on your first spin +2 units)

36 H  No bet, because first M and second M is also from previous bet

20 M  This is your bet - bet 1 unit (there were also 2 M's from a previous bet, but i didn't had any problem betting like this in the last few thousand spins. as long as there are not more then 2 of the same dozen prior, there shouldn't be any problem.

01 L  First Trigger
02 L  First Trigger (at this point you now know that your last M will be the betting dozen.
Now you bet 1 unit on M

Title: Re: NEW SYSTEM: SINGLE DOZEN
Post by: funtomas76 on March 26, 2017, 10:03:55 PM
@Eddy

Did I miss something?

Where is the single dozen at 12-10-5 ?

I hope you are succesfull with your strategy!
Title: Re: NEW SYSTEM: SINGLE DOZEN
Post by: palestis on March 26, 2017, 11:52:16 PM
Help. I need Clarification

I am going to quote 2 of your earlier posts (because this is how I've been playing). Then I will return to your answer above.

Both of the following quotes relate to your RULE #1 of your Red Flags, which states:

RULE #1: "If the same dozen appears more than 3+ times immediately preceding the trigger (it's a sign of anomaly that can affect the rest of the dozens)."

First Quote:
Palestis Reply #5

Quote
Yes 3+ repeats preceding the trigger, is a cause of concern. All you have to do is wait idle a few more spins, to break the streak.

My Interpretation:
This tells me, after a sequence such as:

12 L
10 L
5 L

Then, we WAIT 3 more spins BEFORE choosing our first trigger. So, if the following 3 spins AFTER the LLL streak were a VALID TRIGGER (no matter if it had an L in it or not), then we SKIP the first trigger and proceed to the SECOND trigger.

Hi:
I understand that attention to detail and exactness of action, is important to you, and that's good.
Yes you are right. I said in  past posts that if there is a sequence of the same dozen for 3+ spins in a row, we skip the very first trigger that comes along. But I specified ( or at least what I meant),  a trigger  immediately following  the streak without new numbers interruptions . Which happen to be the very first 3 numbers that  formed a trigger exactly after the streak.
BUT if a few numbers passed by, after the streak, WITHOUT FORMING A TRIGGER, then you don't have to skip the first trigger you encounter further down,  and wait for the second. The exception is if the 3 numbers immediately after the streak form a trigger XXY where X and Y were not numbers that belonged in the streak.
In this case we can bet the first trigger even if it follows immediately after the streak.
Example-1:    12,10, 5, 22,23,35.
Yes in this case we can play after the very first trigger 22,23,35, even if it followed  the LLL streak.
Because neither 22,23 were part of the LLL streak, and neither the target H dozen was part of the streak.

Example-2:    12,10,5,31,32,4. In this case WE SKIP THE FIRST TRIGGER. 31-32-4.
Because the target dozen is the L. (and that was the dozen that was in the streak. That's the most important rule). it makes sense not to chase something that was already in a streak by itself.

Example-3:    12,10, 5, 30, 4,8. The trigger is 30,4,8 and the target is the H. But since 4,and 8 were numbers from the streak we skip this trigger. (this is not a rule as strong as the rule in example -2.
But I would skip it. If another player wanted to proceed with this trigger it's ok and  up to his discretion. It's not a strong departure from the rule because the target dozen is not the dozen that was in  the streak).

Example-4:   12,10,5,30,22,7, 32,35,. The very first trigger after the LLL is 7- 32- 35,
In this case we bet the 1ST TRIGGER. No need to skip it and look for the 2nd trigger.
Because after the LLL the new numbers broke the streak and things are back to normal.

Example-5:   Trigger is 31,32,20. if after the first 2 bets we get 33,34 we stop and only lose 2 spins. Because after an XXY if the first 2 spins are again XX it indicates some type of anomaly. So better save the money that was going to go to the 3rd spin (which is the most expensive out of the 3 progressive bets).
I think I made it a little more clear now.
If in my tests I didn't follow this exact procedure, take it as a mistake.
I may not pay too much attention, simply because no matter how you do it,  there should never be too many back 2 back losses. Like more than the already rare 3.
Let me know if it is more clear now.

Title: Re: NEW SYSTEM: SINGLE DOZEN
Post by: Bayes on March 27, 2017, 07:27:06 AM
Example-1:    12,10, 5, 22,23,35.
Yes in this case we can play after the very first trigger 22,23,35, even if it followed  the LLL streak.
Because neither 22,23 were part of the LLL streak, and neither the target H dozen was part of the streak.

Sorry to muddy the waters, but according to rule #1 in your first post in the thread, this should be avoided:

Quote
1. If the same dozen appears repeatedly immediately preceding the trigger. (it's a sign of anomaly that can affect the rest of the dozens).

When Reyth asked what "repeatedly" means, you said 3+ times. Rule #2 is the one which says you should skip a trigger if it contains an outcome which was in the preceding streak. This is what prompted me to suggest that rules #1 and #2 amount to the same thing, namely "skip a trigger if there is a streak of 3+ prior to it", because whether the streak has an outcome in the trigger or not, you skip the trigger.

Anyway, this is how my tracker is coded, but probably best to wait until you've done some tests with it before recommending any changes.
Title: Re: NEW SYSTEM: SINGLE DOZEN
Post by: dobbelsteen on March 27, 2017, 08:27:45 AM
After 12-10-5 I play 6 units on High, 2  units on DS 13/18 ,1unit on street 7/9, 1 unit on street 1/3.
If the zero has not fallen in the past 50 spins and the unit  is 10 euro, I place also one 0,1 unit on the zero

After 5-16-18 , 6 units High, 1 unit street 1/3 and7/9, 22 units on DS 10/15. Both wagers have a profit of 20% .

A repeater in a DS is a same trigger. The difference you can start the wager with 5 units in stead of 10 units.

After a no hit on a DS trigger I double the bet.

The goal is to win 5 units per hour playing on 4 tables. The no hits decrease the profit %%.
Title: Re: NEW SYSTEM: SINGLE DOZEN
Post by: Bayes on March 27, 2017, 12:04:43 PM
(http://i63.tinypic.com/2v1uctw.png)

Just doing a bit more testing prior to sending the tracker to Palestis for beta testing. The system continues to perform strongly, and it's nice to have 3 options to choose from. The yellow labels at the top of each bet show the current balance for that selection.
Title: Re: NEW SYSTEM: SINGLE DOZEN
Post by: palestis on March 27, 2017, 12:18:44 PM
Example-1:    12,10, 5, 22,23,35.
Yes in this case we can play after the very first trigger 22,23,35, even if it followed  the LLL streak.
Because neither 22,23 were part of the LLL streak, and neither the target H dozen was part of the streak.

Sorry to muddy the waters, but according to rule #1 in your first post in the thread, this should be avoided:

Quote
1. If the same dozen appears repeatedly immediately preceding the trigger. (it's a sign of anomaly that can affect the rest of the dozens).

When Reyth asked what "repeatedly" means, you said 3+ times. Rule #2 is the one which says you should skip a trigger if it contains an outcome which was in the preceding streak. This is what prompted me to suggest that rules #1 and #2 amount to the same thing, namely "skip a trigger if there is a streak of 3+ prior to it", because whether the streak has an outcome in the trigger or not, you skip the trigger.

Anyway, this is how my tracker is coded, but probably best to wait until you've done some tests with it before recommending any changes.
I guess the word  "preceding" caused all the confusion.
In the sequence 12,10,5, 22,23,35,  technically the first trigger is 10,5,22 , but it doesn't fit the premises of "preceding".
Rather,  it should be worded the first trigger, "inclusive " 2 numbers in the trigger that were part of the streak.
But If we separate the entire streak from the very next trigger and avoid using it, then  ( as you suggested), it can become one and the same rule. I realize that now.
That is avoiding the first trigger immediately following a streak, whether the target  dozen is the one that was in the streak or not. That is avoiding trigger 22,23,35.
If the tracker is based on this premise that's fine.
I still expect the system to perform much better than the lengthy test results where no rules were observed. That is avoiding most 3 back to back losses and certainly 4+. ( not that 3 level losses were frequent enough to cause an alarm).
In fact HARRYJ has tested and plays this system without any attention to the rules.
And he has no problems with it whatsoever.
He likes playing seated in one roulette, and  he doesn't have the option to move from one roulette to another.
Therefore he has to use every betting opportunity to make his session worthwhile.

Title: Re: NEW SYSTEM: SINGLE DOZEN
Post by: Reyth on March 27, 2017, 12:36:24 PM
Awesome coding Bayes!
Title: Re: NEW SYSTEM: SINGLE DOZEN
Post by: TERMINATOR on March 27, 2017, 01:08:36 PM
@ Bayes

I love the look of your tracker. Not only are the 3 options for Dozens, Columns and DS awesome, but to be able to choose different progressions as well is REALLY helpful for testing purposes. Great work, Bayes!
Title: Re: NEW SYSTEM: SINGLE DOZEN
Post by: TERMINATOR on March 27, 2017, 01:18:58 PM
@ jekhb76

Eddy, thanks for sharing your method and advice in your Posts #194 and 200, it was sound and very helpful.

However, regarding post #204, I’m a little confused. Maybe it’s me? But it appears you use the word “trigger” to describe only ONE specific Dozen.  For example, when you said:

Quote
10 L  First Trigger)
05 L  Second Trigger)

You seem to be referring to the SINGLE NUMBER 10 as the 1st trigger, and #5 as the 2nd trigger. And not as a set of 3 numbers.

Palestis defined a “Trigger” as a set of THREE numbers, not as 1 number, when he said:.

Quote
The trigger is in the form of XXY. (XX are 2 numbers in the same dozen and Y is another dozen).

Can you clarify your use of the word “trigger” so I can follow your betting pattern in Post #204? Thank you.
Title: Re: NEW SYSTEM: SINGLE DOZEN
Post by: ShadowBlue on March 27, 2017, 01:24:28 PM
I have been playing this system lately. I did play YXX and XXY with a 1-1-2 , 2-2-4 , 4-4-8 progression.

But i was not happy with the results. So i now only play the tweak suggested by Reyth only YXX.

I play it at 3 online tables at the same time. So no need to wait long for triggers. So far it looks good.

Playing it for 10 points profit hit and run style with the above progression it really looks good.

Thanks Palestis for this system...  ;D
Title: Re: NEW SYSTEM: SINGLE DOZEN
Post by: palestis on March 27, 2017, 01:41:11 PM
@Shadowblue.
This system was meant to be for live roulette in a B+M casino.
I cannot guarantee it for online playing. Especially the RNG type.
There is still a controversy whether or not the online casinos can be trusted.
And it has been the subject of extensive postings in many forums. With conflicting conclusions.
So I can't say with certainty if it will work in an online setting.
But sure YXX is a much stronger trigger that XYX or XXY for obvious reasons.
Because Y did not appear for 2 spins in the YXX form, and it still has 3 spins to go.
So you always have 5 chances for a 33.3% odds.
If I was betting with $50 or $100 starting chips chips then certainly I would only consider YXX for trigger.

Title: Re: NEW SYSTEM: SINGLE DOZEN
Post by: jekhb76 on March 27, 2017, 01:41:49 PM
@Terminator

Sorry to cause some confusion, i just note the way i look at the triggers, maybe not the way it suposed to.

when i use the term trigger, it is because a dozen is the first part of three.
let me explain.

When we have the following dozenz,

L
L
M

I bet of M. for me the first L is trigger 1 and the secons L is trigger 2. I need to triggers before i can bet. So when i have to triggers i look for the next dozen to match.
if the 3rd dozen is not M i wait for a L.  then my first trigger is L and my second trigger is L and i bet on M. o know it sounds confusing but to me it is clear. maybe i shouldn't have used the term triggers in the first place, only the term Betting.
Title: Re: NEW SYSTEM: SINGLE DOZEN
Post by: palestis on March 27, 2017, 01:58:42 PM
Jekhb76
Could you mean that in an LLM sequence , L is the first trigger, then L again is the second trigger and then M is the target dozen?
( 3rd trigger for your betting purposes).
I think you break up an entire trigger in the form XXY,  into sub-triggers.
Which is fine as long as you understand it your way.
But for this system we mean the entire LLM sequence as a single trigger where the target of betting is M.
Or maybe you mean that in an LLM sequence the second L is your first trigger (because it completed the XX ) Then M is the second trigger ( and the dozen to bet on) because it completed the XXY we are looking for.
Title: Re: NEW SYSTEM: SINGLE DOZEN
Post by: TERMINATOR on March 27, 2017, 02:30:00 PM
@ Palestis

Thanks again for addressing my concerns. Regarding your Post #206, for the most part you have made it more clear, yes. Out of the 5 Examples you gave, I understand clearly Examples #2,3, and 5. No problem. Example #1, I THINK I understand. And #4 I need some clarification.

I’d like to comment on Examples #1 and #4 please.

Quote
Example-1:    12,10, 5, 22,23,35.
Yes in this case we can play after the very first trigger 22,23,35, even if it followed  the LLL streak.
Because neither 22,23 were part of the LLL streak, and neither the target H dozen was part of the streak.

Because of what you recently posted to Bayes in Post #210, my understanding now is that we can play this first trigger EITHER WAY, correct? Whether we play it or skip it really makes no difference.

I’m assuming this is why, in an earlier post, you said we SKIP the following trigger:

Quote
If there is a sequence of numbers like 25-30-27-32-10-8-21 you avoid betting the 10-8-21 trigger

So, in the above case, we CAN bet the 10-8-21 trigger, because none of the numbers in 10-8-21 were part of the Dozen that repeated. Correct? This is up to the discretion of the user. We can either bet it or skip it, correct?

As for your example #4:

Quote
Example-4:   12,10,5,30,22,7, 32,35,. The very first trigger after the LLL is 7- 32- 35,
In this case we bet the 1ST TRIGGER. No need to skip it and look for the 2nd trigger.
Because after the LLL the new numbers broke the streak and things are back to normal.

I DO understand why 7- 32- 35 is the first trigger. But when you said, “the new numbers broke the streak and things are back to normal” were you referring to the #30 and 22? And the fact that there were TWO XYZ's AFTER the streak of LLL?

Palestis, to help me understand more clearly, let me ask this. What if the number 30 was not spun? For example, after the LLL, instead of 30-22-7-32-35, we had the following:

22-7-32-35

The 22-7-32 is XYZ (does that break the LLL pattern also? Or do you need BOTH an H and M number to break the LLL streak?)

Would you still bet the 7-32-35 trigger next in the above example? Or would you skip the 1st trigger in this case?

Thanks again for your help, Palestis.

Title: Re: NEW SYSTEM: SINGLE DOMENICO
Post by: Harryj on March 27, 2017, 04:17:21 PM
@ Terminator,
             Sorry for the slow response. You question re my progression.
     3..3 is the 2 bets on the DS
       6 is the total bet
       6 is the total progression bet
      18 is the payout for a win
      12 is the profit

 4....4 is the 2 DS bets
       8 is the total bet
      14 is the total progression bet
      24 is the payout
      10 is the profit.
      As can be seen this progression is designed to balance profit with expected hit rate. Established by the range statistics. The 2 extra bets are insurance, to increase safety and the W/L rate. As Pal pointed out. I play the flow at a single table, with no option of checking other signboards.
      While Pal said I ignore the red flags this is not quite true.eg. LLL 3 dozens the same. I restart the count. ie. I wait for 3 spins to form another trigger. LMH 3 dozens present. I restart the count. Wait another 3 spins. Zero appears during count. As I said to Bayes. This is a maybe. Long term testing doesn't show that simply ignoring zero makes much difference. I consider the last 3 spins from the win eg. HLL/bet H....LHwin. The last 3 spins are LLH/ bet H.......MMLHwin.. Last 3 spins MLH/no bet . This allows me to take advantage of favourable flows. It is not unusual to get 4 or 5 quick wins.
        Those are the fixed rules. No fixed red flags, but I watch for obvious anomolies. The above rules tend to take care of most, but if the flow looks wrong, wait a few spins for it to normalise.
        Playing from a small B/R I do not increase my bet after a loss. I rely on the excellent W/L ratio to recover. With a large B/R obviously an increase will take ad advantage of the rare back to back losses.
      Harry
.
Title: Re: NEW SYSTEM: SINGLE DOZEN
Post by: Lemon on March 27, 2017, 09:07:06 PM

Hello,

I've been lurking this forum and this thread for a while now and have been playing around with this system for the last week or so.    My observation so far is that the  XYY trigger is so much better than the other options (as noted also by other players).  Why not only play on XYY and ignore the others?

Cheers
Title: Re: NEW SYSTEM: SINGLE DOZEN
Post by: palestis on March 27, 2017, 09:31:05 PM
Yes I agree and also said, that the YXX trigger ( you changed it to XYY but you mean the same thing),  is stronger that the others. And if you have the patience to ignore all others and play that one only, then by all means do so. it is highly recommended for high stake bets.
But for very low bets,  as it is usually the case,  then you speed up the game and your visit to the casino by playing all forms of the trigger.
The system was designed a certain way and it performed well that way.
If you can make a tweak that makes it even more bulletproof,  I can't be more agreeable.
Title: Re: NEW SYSTEM: SINGLE DOZEN
Post by: palestis on March 27, 2017, 09:54:42 PM

Quote
Example-1:    12,10, 5, 22,23,35.
Yes in this case we can play after the very first trigger 22,23,35, even if it followed  the LLL streak.
Because neither 22,23 were part of the LLL streak, and neither the target H dozen was part of the streak.

Because of what you recently posted to Bayes in Post #210, my understanding now is that we can play this first trigger EITHER WAY, correct? Whether we play it or skip it really makes no difference.

I’m assuming this is why, in an earlier post, you said we SKIP the following trigger:

Quote
If there is a sequence of numbers like 25-30-27-32-10-8-21 you avoid betting the 10-8-21 trigger

So, in the above case, we CAN bet the 10-8-21 trigger, because none of the numbers in 10-8-21 were part of the Dozen that repeated. Correct? This is up to the discretion of the user. We can either bet it or skip it, correct?

In the example-1 it is clear that after the LLL the new numbers 22, 23, 35 are unrelated to the LLL streak. Therefore you may want to play this trigger. Though it contradicts a previous statement, where I said you skip it. But the final verdict is that whether you play it on not it doesn't make any difference for  the system .
The argument for playing it is that the danger has passed (streak of one dozen),  and you got new numbers and a target dozen unrelated to the streak.
The argument for skipping it, is mostly for the sake of following standard procedure.  Instead of pausing and examining the numbers to see if there is a conflict between the numbers in the  streak and the new numbers after it. Which consumes some brain as you try to figure out what to do.
Also skipping helps Bayes's tracker, as is it much easier to work with if there is only one course of action after a streak. Instead of trying to make distinctions all the time. 
But for playing it live in a casino, if you play that trigger  is fine, and if you skip it is fine too.
Either action will not affect the system in a damaging way.

As for your example #4:

Quote
Example-4:   12,10,5,30,22,7, 32,35,. The very first trigger after the LLL is 7- 32- 35,
In this case we bet the 1ST TRIGGER. No need to skip it and look for the 2nd trigger.
Because after the LLL the new numbers broke the streak and things are back to normal.

I DO understand why 7- 32- 35 is the first trigger. But when you said, “the new numbers broke the streak and things are back to normal” were you referring to the #30 and 22? And the fact that there were TWO XYZ's AFTER the streak of LLL?

Palestis, to help me understand more clearly, let me ask this. What if the number 30 was not spun? For example, after the LLL, instead of 30-22-7-32-35, we had the following:

22-7-32-35

The 22-7-32 is XYZ (does that break the LLL pattern also? Or do you need BOTH an H and M number to break the LLL streak?)

Would you still bet the 7-32-35 trigger next in the above example? Or would you skip the 1st trigger in this case?
Yes that's correct. 30 and 22 are the 2 numbers  that broke the streak. And the fact that there were 2 XYZ adds to that logic of thought
Now if 30 was not spun and only 27 came, then you have only one number that broke the streak.
 That's a little more risky than having 2 numbers break the streak.  In addition the L dozen becomes the target. That's the risky part.
So because it was the L dozen that was in the streak , and then it becomes the target after only 1 number break , just to be safe we skip this trigger. 
In general,  when you come to the point where you feel puzzled as to what to do,
the best thing is to let some spins go by idle and free your self from thinking too much.
Like Sheridan said, if things look too screwy, get away from them by letting spins pass by or move on to another roulette.
It is much easier to do that in actual play at a casino, than in- home testing, where you need to have some standard procedures.
Title: Re: NEW SYSTEM: SINGLE DOZEN
Post by: TERMINATOR on March 28, 2017, 01:00:58 AM
@ Harryj

Thank you for clarifying your progression. It seems very interesting, and safe. I like your idea of 2 extra bets for "insurance."

I also like your idea of considering the last 3 spins from the win, to take advantage of favorable flows. What I like MOST about that idea is there is a LOT LESS waiting time between triggers. Ingenious. I'm going to incorporate that into my play as well.

Just curious, do you find it more profitable (or is there less variance) playing the DS rather than the dozens? Or is it just a personal preference for you?

Thanks again for sharing this awesome method with everyone! You and Palestis have done such a wonderful job creating this.

Title: Re: NEW SYSTEM: SINGLE DOZEN
Post by: TERMINATOR on March 28, 2017, 01:03:57 AM
@ Palestis

Okay, I understand much better now. Thank you. Explaining the advantages and disadvantages of both your examples helped a lot. You're awesome!
Title: Re: NEW SYSTEM: SINGLE DOZEN
Post by: jekhb76 on March 28, 2017, 04:39:31 AM
Sorry to interupt, but now i'm confused.  :-\
Harry posted a new betting method for the target dozen. He is playing 2 DS in that dozen.
As understand it, he is not using a progression.
He oa betting the following (please correct me if i'm wrong).

DS 1     DS 2 (in target dozen)

3           3  (6 TB) (18 Return) (12 Profit)
4           4  (14TB) (24 Return) (10 Profit)

And he is using no progression, he is goin' with the flow of the W/L ratio?

but when we have a 3 back to back loss, and we use no progression, we are never gonna recoup om our losses. plus we need a bigger bankroll to play it that way. How is this and insurence while playing? And is better to only bet when you habe to play the 1e dozen, YXX (so only bet when we have L M M (bet on L) and when we have L H H (bet on L) and skip the othr betting oppertunities????

Can Harry on Terminator do a playthrough session, so we can understand this? thanks.
i'm confused.
Title: Re: NEW SYSTEM: SINGLE DOZEN
Post by: TERMINATOR on March 28, 2017, 06:05:31 AM
Eddy, I've never played with Double Streets yet, so Harry would be better qualified to give an example.

He does use a 5 step progression. He bets 3 units on each DS. If they both lose, he goes to step 2, which is 4 units on each DS. Etc. He explains this in an earlier post.
Title: Re: NEW SYSTEM: SINGLE DOZEN
Post by: jekhb76 on March 28, 2017, 11:45:57 AM

How to play alternate dozen system.
Wait till you have 2 number that are not more then 3 spins apart and not more then 3 numbers apart from eachother.
Example spin;
12
7 *
9 *
15
21
1 Win.

Number 7 and 9 are your triggers, now start betting dozen 1 until hit using Palestis progression. 112 224 448 8816
when you have a hit but not at a new high proceed with next trigger at step 2 from the progression. When you encounter a zero while searching for a trigger, skip until the zero isn't part of the trigger zone anymore. When you have 2 triggers and you start to bet, a zero comes along before you have a hit, take the loss and start over by searching for a new trigger.

it show good results but more testing is needed. it's an alternetive from the original single dozen gameplay, so you cam switch now and then. it shows that it is also a save method till now. let me know what you think - Eddy

22 x win after 1 spin
12 x win after 2 spins
14 x win after 3 spins
06 x win after 4 spins
01 x win after 5 spins
01 x win after 6 spins
01 x win after 7 spins
01 x win after 8 spins
00 x win after 9 spins
02 x win after 10 spins

Total rounds played: 60

29
35
9
----------
16 *
3
16 *
17 W
---------- 1 spin
21 *
5
19 *
4
13 W
---------- 2 spin
6
13
1
14
0
9
7
0
10
34
----------
7 *
12
4 *
17
12 W
---------- 2 spin
34 *
34 *
36 W
---------- 1 spin
36
----------
15 *
10
16 *
8
2
17 W
---------- 3 spin
14 *
14 *
5
32
29
30
29
1
36
27
36
21 W
---------- 10 spin
18
13
31
1 *
10
1 *
26
34
8 W
---------- 3 spin
0
35 *
8
34 *
34 W
--------- 1 spin
17
0
18
13
1 *
28
11 *
14
17
6 W
---------- 3 spin
18
25
8
22  *
13
23 *
5
9
14 W
---------- 3 spin
15
10 *
9 *
27
25
4 w
---------- 3 spin
9 *
12 *
29
23
26
35
34
9 W
---------- 6 spin
14 *
0
16 *
5
15 W
---------- 2 spin
29 *
21
27 *
16
3
15
26 W
---------- 4 spin
8 *
3
8 *
13
14
10 W
---------- 3 spin
0
4
29
16
0
3 *
31
1 *
4 W
---------- 1 spin
14 *
14 *
11
9
0
5
8
12
14 W
---------- 7 spin
11 *
11 *
28
1 W
---------- 2 spin
8
33 *
36 *
34 W
---------- 1 spin
12
0
22
32
11 *
13
10 *
16
5 W
---------- 2 spin
17
13
28 *
1
31
27 *
3
4
10
29 W
---------- 4 spin
35
27
21 *
23 *
19
22 W
---------- 2 spin
22
16
26
4
9
13
33 *
22
29
34 *
11
18
34 W
---------- 3 spin
15
7
26 *
31
25 *
23
9
31 W
---------- 3 spin
26
19 *
19 *
14 W
---------- 1 spin
29 *
27 *
27 W
---------- 1 spin
22
17 *
35
9
17 *
18 W
---------- 1 spin
19 *
2
18 *
1
22 W
---------- 2 spin
26
7
15 *
13 *
30
15 W
---------- 2 spin
32 *
8
17
32 *
34 W
---------- 1 spin
31
35 *
36 *
11
11
17
32 W
---------- 4 spin
25
21
36
15
10
3
34
26
17
1
6 *
4 *
5 W
---------- 1 spin
7 *
20
8 *
36
8 W
---------- 2 spin
35
27
31
8 *
10 *
33
15
34
5 W
---------- 4 spin
16 *
13 *
18 W
---------- 1 spin
22
31
27
1 *
3 *
33
30
2 W
---------- 3 spin
33
14
23 *
22 *
6
13 W
---------- 2 spin
13
20
7 *
10 *
2 W
---------- 1 spin
3
12
8
36
27
18 *
13
3
19 *
34
36
8
35
34
12
2
0
10
23 W
---------- 10 spin
27
32
18
6
27 *
0
11
26 *
0
30 W
---------- 2 spin
16
11
20
5
28 *
30 *
24
20
10
12
16
16
7
27 W
---------- 8 spin
8
30
16 *
17 *
16 W
---------- 1 spin
25
11
15
6
34
11 *
29
8 *
25
2 W
---------- 2 spin
26
20 *
10
34
21 *
2
3
24 W
---------- 3 spin
11
33 *
30 *
2
19
33 W
---------- 3 spin
5
0
6
2
0
31 *
25
29 *
5
3
29 W
---------- 3 spin
21 *
23 *
15 W
---------- 1 spin
33
14 *
15 *
34
1
11
20 W
---------- 4 spin
24
29
11
16 *
1
16 *
31
26
34
14 W
---------- 4 spin
19
14
29 *
30 *
26 W
---------- 1 spin
30 *
33 *
13
16
32 W
---------- 3 spin
36
4
20 *
19 *
16 W
---------- 1 spin
11
16
0
0
18
12
14 *
7
2
14 *
17 W
---------- 1 spin
25
21
33
4 *
7 *
10 W
---------- 1 spin
6
13
36
25
19
30
2
7
26
19
13
36
2
29
11
20 *
18 *
22 W
---------- 1 spin
7 *
7 *
27
14
10 W
---------- 3 spin
28 *
31 *
29 W
---------- 1 spin
19
10
27
3
16
35 *
8
36 *
27 W
---------- 1 spin
30
16
25
24 *
21 *
26
30
0
3
22 W
---------- 5 spin
29
4 *
7 *
11 W
---------- 1 spin
10

Title: Re: NEW SYSTEM: SINGLE DOZEN
Post by: Lemon on March 28, 2017, 12:40:18 PM

Going back to Palestis's original system.  I haven't played this system long enough to make any firm conclusions.  However, I have noticed that I have had excellent results when I get the duel trigger of 3 unique dozens in a row in any order (XYZ, etc.)  followed by a YXX.   It is a strong enough trigger that I raise my stakes when this occurs.  I will post example of my play when I get enough data.

Cheers
Title: Re: NEW SYSTEM: SINGLE DOZEN
Post by: palestis on March 28, 2017, 02:30:59 PM
@ Lemon
Sounds very much like my style of play.
A YXX trigger following an XYZ sequence acts as a reset, from a possible presence of a variance.
I don't mind waiting for hours for things to line in a way, where winning is almost certain.
I have plenty of patience when it comes to certainty in winning. And I care less for the adrenaline of playing, and the disappointment of some lost winning opportunities. 
The core system has performed very well under the standard way I have posted.
But for those who don't have the heart to go thru the cycles of winning, losing some levels, and then recovering, before continuing, the way you suggested is a surefire way to win.  But without the heartaches of some temporary losses on the way to victory.
Any system can be customized  to the player's personality. But the core system has to be a good system to begin with.
The way you suggested is highly recommended for high stakes play, where the end result matters and not how you get there.
Title: Re: NEW SYSTEM: SINGLE DOZEN
Post by: jekhb76 on March 28, 2017, 03:14:22 PM

Just did another session with my alternate play, these are the results with 1u base bet.
162 spins result in € +40

32
16
28 *
22
30 *
26 W
---------- +2 units
6  *
21
6  *
11 W
---------- +2 units
24 *
1
21 *
21 W
---------- +2 units
23 *
22 *
5
34
22 W
---------- +2 units
28
34 *
22
31 *
29 W
---------- +2 units
4
36
18
10 *
12 *
14
26
5  W
----------- +2 units
13 *
31
6
15 *
28
17 W
----------- +1 unit
6  *
9  *
25
12 W
----------- +1 unit
31 *
19
27
33 *
17
31 W
----------- +1 unit
18
35
7  *
5  *
13
15
4  W
------------ +2 units
3
21 *
29
24 *
13 W
------------ +2 units
3  *
3  *
16
33
22
5  W
------------ 0
23
26 *
27 *
35 W
------------ +2 units
16
36 *
36 *
1
2
12
33 W
------------- 0
11 *
9  *
35
9  W
------------- +1 unit
12
30 *
17
31 *
5
22
31 W
-------------- +2 units
33 *
23
25
31 *
0   no betting
-------------
14
22
6  *
8  *
7  W
------------- +2 units
9
13
24
28
0
24 *
26
30
21 *
18 W
------------ +2 units
10
3
23 *
24 *
21 W
----------- +2 units
33
13
23
8
30
18 *
16 *
20 W
----------- +2 units
18
12
32
9  *
16
6  *
24
25
5  W
------------ +2 units
29
3
9  *
25
6  *
27
21
35
11 W
--------------- 0
21 *
30
21 *
15 W
--------------- +2 units
33 *
4
30 *
15
26 W
-------------- +1 unit
16
1
6
24
32 *
34 *
23
7
35 W
------------- +2 unit
35
4  *
6  *
13
11 W
------------- +1 unit
Title: Re: NEW SYSTEM: SINGLE DOZEN
Post by: Harryj on March 28, 2017, 03:38:53 PM
Terminator has voiced a concern I often get. How do I handle the DS play.1st let me state that I began playing DS about 40years ago. The casino introduced the concept of inside and outside numbers. With different, and less favourable, rules for the outside numbers. It was aimed at curtailing system play. Which concentrated on outside numbers.
        I studied the layout and wheel and decided that DS's looked like the best alternative. I soon four d that DS were much more versatile. I have not bet an outside number since, and will never do so again !!

    How are DS better ? CHOICE ! In the case of dozens I have12 possible dozens instead of 3. With EC's 8 have 20 possibilities instead of 6.
    How is this better ? Many years ago I embarked on research to find the best arrangements of bets around he wheel. EC's alternate, which looked lime a good arrangement. At no time would you miss by more than 1 pocket. Yet I found that 3DS usually performed better. I won't bore you with the painstaking research that followed. Even if I HD the skills. Computers weren't available.

    Mi found wheel sectors were more reliable. Divide the wheel into halves, thirds, quarters, or sixths, ninths or twelves and the results were likely to be better than EC's, dozens, 3 streets, DS, quads or streets. Tohe problem was tracking and betting these sectors was laborious. There had to be an easier way on the layout. So I judged the DS until the results showed a consistent improvement.

     So I don't bet dozens(DS 12,34,56) I bet DS pairs that include 1low DS and 1high DS. That gives me dozens(12numbers)that include an equal number of R.B.O.E. and H.L. I then loomed at the pattern of bets around the wheel. Alternating groups of 1 or 2 wasn't the answer. That was featured on the 2 wheels. If it were bad for them the casinos would have changed it. I found that a group of 4 and 3 with a minimum of single numbers spread randomly around the wheel gave best results. That is the reasoning behind my DS play. It is highly likely that similar results would work for for other bets. You will have to do thàt research yourself.

      So for an EC bet I use 3 DS. For dozens I use 2.

       Terminator you got the betting right. The 2 extra safety (insured) bets seem to pay their way.