### Author Topic: How do AP win and what type of bets are used?  (Read 1887 times)

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#### MickyP

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##### How do AP win and what type of bets are used?
« on: December 14, 2017, 06:53:48 PM »
How do AP win and what type of bets are used?

This is a fair question for the many who do not know enough about AP to engage in meaningful discussions. We may presume that AP only bet on single numbers and may bet one to three single numbers at a time. What about splits, single streets and quads? Are these cluster bets excluded from AP play?

How does a newbie AP bet? How big is the section on the wheel that he covers to get his prediction right?

And lastly, what aids do AP use to assist in their game? Is the accuracy of prediction in a live casino still feesable without aids if they are used?

It is IMPORTANT that I state that I am interested in learning more about AP and these are legitimate questions so please refrain from insults and witty responses. Let's have an open honest discussion.

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#### MrPerfect.

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##### Re: How do AP win and what type of bets are used?
« Reply #1 on: December 14, 2017, 08:47:12 PM »
AP bets how he wants, what he wants and the way he wants.  Not the type of betting that make AP an AP.
Some AP bet much wiser then others... others in this case make to much show off.
All l can tell about AP bets is that they are premeditated and precalculated. No AP , if he is AP bet what he shouldn't.
New AP with low level of camouflage and understanding of the game often provide circus... even if someone can win every bet, it's much more wise to create some variance ( controlable)..  like betting less numbers then should, not every spin...ets.
These who ignore camouflage often make game for themselves ( and others) more difficult.  Playing the game  changes the game ... and these who sitt on cameras( cctv) often are worth they pay.
Hope it will give you incites... if not , look " recommended reading " section.

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#### MickyP

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##### Re: How do AP win and what type of bets are used?
« Reply #2 on: December 14, 2017, 09:25:03 PM »
What I understand from your answer is that AP is a generalisation  to describe players who place bets based on wheel layout with a method of predicting where the ball may land.

From your answer I also understand that AP  is haphazard  in general. If I decide to pursue this method of play (AP), how long will it take to learn the prediction skills required to walk away a winner every time? Just a general answer will do and you can base it on an average learner with no AP knowledge.

I'd rather have a discussion with you as a seasoned AP who also teaches others the skills of this approach than find the answers written by a wanna be AP who possibly has no real experience.

You do not have to reveal all the tricks of the trade but just enough to put me and others in a position to make informed decisions.

#### MrPerfect.

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##### Re: How do AP win and what type of bets are used?
« Reply #3 on: December 14, 2017, 10:20:21 PM »
Mickey, it doesn't work like that... winning every time simply... sometimes it's economically or time wise not logical to continue playing.
To arive at the level where you understand when you can win, if you are crazy determined... few month, if moderately... around 3 years. Many skills should be developed... it takes time.
It's a task almoust impossible for individual without help, even with the help, many simply desist. They think it's easy, but descover later that it's work as any other and need to do it in order to be suxsessful.

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#### MrPerfect.

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##### Re: How do AP win and what type of bets are used?
« Reply #4 on: December 14, 2017, 10:50:04 PM »
There are other things to consider as well.... conditions are not same everywhere... some places practice rediculos nmb timings. Where l play now it's 3 sec to make decisions and place your bets, sometimes more, but it's rare there..
You need to be fast thinking. There are no time at the game to count distances for example... you need to be able literally make 3-4 simple math equations in 0.5 sec. It can be something like (3×4)+15 -7 =?  And then remember wich numbers are there and cover 3-4 of them in other 0.5 sec...
Not everywhere it's that extream and there are many opportunities for slow thinking guys as well...  but more difficult in this sense wheels normally are less observed and protected.

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#### MickyP

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##### Re: How do AP win and what type of bets are used?
« Reply #5 on: December 14, 2017, 10:56:43 PM »
Thanks for the informative reply.
I've been reading some of the topics in your visual ballistic section.
Is dealer signature not part of AP strategy?
The reason I ask this question is that if it is then this should not create unfavourable coditions for play. Most casinos have a number of tables operating at the same time with a lot of croupiers. Select the easy croupiers to read and play.

I have picked up that studying wheels to find imperfections creating bias on some numbers is a time consuming exercise. Surely AP is not about only playing on bias wheels. If it is then you have to be in the casino 24/7 to make sure the wheel is not changed or maintained.  If this is the case then you have a very small window to actually play.

In a different topic you mentioned that you only require one spin before you start betting. I've read that all wheels do not behave the same due to small imperfections from wear and tear etc. When you start playing immediately or after one spin you must cover a large amount of numbers to ensure a win or am I wrong?
I have many more questions but this will do for now.

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#### MickyP

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##### Re: How do AP win and what type of bets are used?
« Reply #6 on: December 14, 2017, 11:07:07 PM »
I'll read up on more of your topics so I don't end up repeating what has already been discussed. However, if I am unsure or need clarity I will ask specific questions. Thanks for your willingness to have this discussion.

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#### MrPerfect.

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##### Re: How do AP win and what type of bets are used?
« Reply #7 on: December 15, 2017, 01:22:14 AM »
Mickey, do not confuse things...
What l can do and what is possible for vb player is 2 different things.
Just to begin with... ds( dealer signature)  is a "part" of visual ballistic family, it require same skills if not more, depending on situation...
What l call "ds" is very different of what is associated with it normally. For me ds is what dealer does with all his tricks and habits.
Some dealers are more easy then others, even to play vb, player need ds skills.
Bias game is a bit other... ideally it require all knolidge that player may collect, including vb and ds data. If these additional information points are neglected, player end up in really bad situation playing " players bias of understanding " instead of " playing wheel bias".
Best way to look to it all is as a "coin" with 3 faces.  Bias, vb,ds... they all are individual AP methods in their own right, but all of them work better when player can do all 3 together.
"One spin" is to qualify a wheel. Often information obtained is enough for that.  But these things come with experience. ... after you observed and predicted 1m spins, these tricks will be easy for you as well, you will not need to look specifically for every little thing , it will become so obvious to you that it will be simply difficult to ignore.
Beginner AP has to look all nessesary things separately..  determine if wheel is OK,  if it permits vb, if ball is OK, collect data to determine when he can win, wright down things to remember later..  ets. Even seasoned AP should spend some time to qualify wheel when he finds new model of wheel or unfamiliar type of defects, ball... ets.
Be it vb, ds, or bias... it will require long stay at casino to take nessesary data. With experience time needed for data may be reduced,  but openly speaking,  it's not really a benefit, even if it looks alike. I ,for example,  play with current data only, but it took me few years to arrive to this level and lm not really feel myself very "secure" on it. Problem is, such a play shuts down possibility for detailed studies. These studies may give much easier way of play wich may be more profitable and less flushy as well.
Besides everything , proper studies provide material for future studies and ability to evolve as a player. Game is changing very qweak. 5 years ego rrs for example was seen as a noncence  that may be used someday online... now it's reality difficult to ignore, tomorrow it may be only opportunity avaliable. ..  and after tomorrow

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#### MickyP

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##### Re: How do AP win and what type of bets are used?
« Reply #8 on: December 15, 2017, 06:06:17 AM »
Timing the revolutions of the ball are critical to calculating a fairly accurate prediction and in one of your posts you explain how this should be done.
Are human reflex actions or delayed reactions considered in recording time?
A simple test. Two people participate, one holds out his hand with a coin placed on his palm. The second person holds his ear lobes and from that position tried to snatch the coin out of the other person's hand. Most of the time the coin will be snatched out of the others hand before he close it. Even anticipating the action still results in a delayed reaction.
How do you factor this into precise and accurate  timing?

#### MrPerfect.

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##### Re: How do AP win and what type of bets are used?
« Reply #9 on: December 15, 2017, 10:30:11 AM »
Mickey... l do not really like this " enterview" format... it goes to the things that are sensitive.  I sudjest you following. Add me on Skype. Things like "how to factor in..." l really do not like to speak on publick forum.
Revolution timings are important on initial stage of wheel evaluation. ... they show ball track fitness, boundaries of deceleration profile.. ets. In play l do not know revolution timings. Although l do possess precise mechanizm of how to collect them , l use shortcut that permits to abolish need for these and my rc do not care about these either... same as vb3.
It can be fine refinement for these who get player partner to assist them in play and form 2 man vb team... but for individual player this info is useless,  unless he is genius ninja, wich l'm definitely not. I do not exclude possibility that someone may use such an info in play, but ,on my personal opinion , it's unnecessary complication.

#### MickyP

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##### Re: How do AP win and what type of bets are used?
« Reply #10 on: December 16, 2017, 09:29:45 AM »
MrPerfect, as stated earlier, I appreciate your willingness to engage in this open discussion.
The questions in this topic are directed to all AP  and not not only to you. The fact that you are the only AP to respond says a lot about AP in general.
The fact that I am the only person enquiring about AP in this topic also says a lot about others with an interest in the AP approach.
This was never intended to be a one on one interview. My intention was to simply ask questions to better understand the AP approach to roulette with the hope of benefiting all who engage in and are interested in this approach.

I will give a basic overview of the path I have decided to take with regard to play approach in a follow up post. Thank you once again MrPerfect.

#### MrPerfect.

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##### Re: How do AP win and what type of bets are used?
« Reply #11 on: December 16, 2017, 10:02:36 AM »
Mickey, you are wellcome with any qwestions... the thing is that answers for some are sensitive info... so l would prefer to avoid to mention it on publick forum.
There are not that many AP , these who know things normally prefer keep them for themselves as such a knowledge normally results in studing by yourself....
It's a paradox, you know.. these who really care will find out themselfs and these who do not, even with the help will arrive nowhere.
I red few books on bj ... l do not play it and probably never become card counter. Curiosity l had, willing to actually recearch and practice - no.

#### MrPerfect.

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##### Re: How do AP win and what type of bets are used?
« Reply #12 on: December 16, 2017, 10:48:22 AM »
Mickey... simple example... there are lots of video feeds with roulette avaliable now.... online casinos with HD video...YouTube. ..ets.
There are video editing software for free.... did you collected any spin timings??

#### MickyP

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##### Re: How do AP win and what type of bets are used?
« Reply #13 on: December 16, 2017, 11:53:33 AM »
MrPerfect, your sentiments on Blackjack echo my response  to AP.

I've looked at the AP approach from an objective and holistic perspective giving benefit of doubt where due. I like your stance you take in defence of AP and have no evidential reason to doubt your successes with the AP approach to winning.

I'd like to start off by looking at the time we spend at a roulette table. Let's face it, it may look sociable but in fact it's the opposite. The "socialites" are nothing more than bankrupt players looking to continue their play with your chips. Rule one: never take or give advice at a roulette table. Play your own game and win or loose your own money. Being up close at a roulette table is generally an unpleasant experience,  people with cameras watching you, those around the table stare at you expecting you to answer an unasked question. Your personal space is invaded from all angles. You open yourself up to scrutiny if you stay at a table too long. To collect wheel data is not to simply collect spin data. If you are not playing then collecting wheel data can be interupted  at a busy table  by being pushed away from your vantage point. I want the time I spend at the table to yield a win no matter how small. I like short sessions with small wins; big wins would be better but I'm happy with small wins. I also want to limit my risk in every way I can. I know I will loose at times but I would like to control how much I loose. Rule Two: never over extend yourself chasing losses. Know your limits.

I will continue shortly. I have to cook for my dogs... chicken livers.

#### MrPerfect.

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##### Re: How do AP win and what type of bets are used?
« Reply #14 on: December 16, 2017, 12:26:42 PM »
If you wanna get control of game in general, you are better to focus as much as you can.
I do not really care about "sure win"... l know that in any moment l go there and take money l need ( reasonable amounts), so l allow myself relax a bit and abuse on betting as well... it's not really a good way of thinking for a player as player has to be vigilant, but after some time at the game your ability starts to prevailing.
If you wanna sure money, make everything properly, think, count, pay attention... majority of wheels can be assessed this way, you would not win a lot either, but most of time it is "sure win".
If you wanna "rock", then need to take some risks... make dispersion less,abuse a bit on Betts. .  All of this will put your winning sessions ratio down, but is you are sensible,  you gonna get high winning from time to time. Limiting losses to predetermined amount( session bank) will be benefit as well.... higher risk- higher reward...
If you go to full power in study, you may get benefit of both worlds.. stability of winning and higher abuse results...
All things of these are possible, as long as you can achieve and maintaine edge.