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Author Topic: My best advice: Go lose some money!  (Read 3084 times)

kav

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My best advice: Go lose some money!
« on: July 26, 2016, 08:35:24 AM »
Yep. You read that right. My best advice to you is to get up from the couch, leave the computer screen, go to a casino, play your favorite system and lose your money.

There is no substitute for experience. Period. None can teach you what a loss can teach you.
From time to time I receive messages from people who study roulette. Intelligent people. No mater their systems or questions, I can tell they are novices. Somehow it is clear to me that their way of thinking about roulette is the approach of someone who has never tried to win roulette and lost.

The saddest part is that there are many players who have lost money playing roulette and yet they have not learned much. I categorize these people as pure gamblers. Recently I met a guy who plays roulette for 20 years, yet his understanding of roulette strategy is pretty poor. He is not stupid. And I can not explain his lack of deeper understanding.  So my advice does not always work. Losing at roulette is not always a learning experience for everyone.

Every gambling site should warn about the dangers of gambling addiction. We have too. (
Casino self-exclusion and Responsible Gambling hypocrisy , Gambling addiction and compulsive gamblers , Gambling addiction stories )
So if you feel that you lose control of your gambling, please seek help. And only gamble with your extra money, not your food or utilities money. Do not gamble with borrowed money. And do not gamble if you have not studied the game enough. (How to play roulette: Rules, Odds and Payouts, Best Roulette System List )

Still, my point is this: If you can afford to lose some money and if you think you have studied roulette enough. And if you spend most of your time reading and thinking and testing. If you want to make the next step, you have to go out there and play. And lose. And try to understand why you lost and compare reality to your thoughts and tests and readings. It is a fact. You have to pay for your education. And there is no substitute for experience.

If you believe (or someone tries to make you believe) that you can learn (let alone "beat") roulette without being a loser, think again.

Pay the price or leave the game. That's the truth.

Recommended reading:
« Last Edit: July 26, 2016, 04:48:25 PM by kav »


 
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Trilobite

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Re: My best advice: Go lose some money!
« Reply #1 on: July 26, 2016, 09:50:24 AM »
I appreciate your advise, but I really don't like losing.

My belief is that gamblers actually need to lose to satisfy the addiction. So you are advising gamblers to do exactly what they need to do to placate their needs.

True professionals do not fit this bill. They need to win to placate their needs.

Strange but true..
« Last Edit: July 26, 2016, 09:52:30 AM by Trilobite »
 

palestis

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Re: My best advice: Go lose some money!
« Reply #2 on: July 26, 2016, 10:02:04 AM »
It's not a good idea to go to the casino and lose on purpose.
What is more important is to identify the reason you lost, when you lose.
That usually requires going back and retesting the system. That is if you play with a system and not with your luck.
As mentioned in the links above, variance is one of the main reasons people lose. As it gives no warning when it will show up and for how long. You only find out as you play, and in that case it might be too late, as you run out of B/R or have reached a progression level that prevents you from continuing, fearing an even larger loss.
However it shouldn't be that way.
Though there is no way to predict if variance will make its presence as you play, you can wait till variance happens.
Cost free.  (Enter virtual play).
Waiting for variance to reach known peaks, then you can start betting your system.
After a variance happens, most likely things will fall within their statistical expectations.
That is more likely to happen, than seeing the variance proceed to its rare extreme limits.
But the unfortunate fact is the most players/gamblers don't believe in waiting for the right moment.
They see every bet missed as a lost winning opportunity.
It is the chasing of "winning opportunities" that destroys most players

 
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kav

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Re: My best advice: Go lose some money!
« Reply #3 on: July 26, 2016, 10:04:00 AM »
Trilobite,
You don't tell us how professionals become pro. Out of thin air? Without previous losing experiences? Noway.
 
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Bayes

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Re: My best advice: Go lose some money!
« Reply #4 on: July 26, 2016, 10:44:16 AM »
I think the point Kav is trying to make is that of the old cliche "you only learn by your mistakes" or "you learn more from your losses than your wins", which I agree with.

Quote
It is the chasing of "winning opportunities" that destroys most players

Agreed. It's the mistaken belief that there are "opportunities" which is the problem. In reality there are none, that's why it's better to play defensively and back off when things take a downturn. The only reason why you wouldn't do this is if you think that some event or whatever your system is based must materialise in the next few spins, but of course it need not. It's overconfidence which results in ruin (that and miscalculation of the necessary bankroll to withstand the losses).
 
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scepticus

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Re: My best advice: Go lose some money!
« Reply #5 on: July 26, 2016, 04:38:07 PM »
I agree with kav.
You either Talk the Talk or Walk the Walk.
No one likes to lose or tries to lose but losing teaches you that there is no easy way to win - in any gambling environment. Losing teaches you the reality of gambling -you are risking  real money not play money.  Losing real  money   teaches you to be more cautious and less adventurous.
 Play  Money is for learning only.
Addicts do not deliberately lose - they try to stay IN the game at any cost because they are addicted.
 
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kav

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Re: My best advice: Go lose some money!
« Reply #6 on: July 26, 2016, 04:50:56 PM »
I think the point Kav is trying to make is that of the old cliche "you only learn by your mistakes" or "you learn more from your losses than your wins", which I agree with.
Exactly.
And that reality is different than theory.
« Last Edit: July 26, 2016, 04:53:02 PM by kav »
 

Trilobite

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Re: My best advice: Go lose some money!
« Reply #7 on: July 27, 2016, 06:50:58 AM »
You are right Kav, that we all start from the same place and that we are all likely to lose money along the way.
Its dangerous advice though because scientific studies show that the hormones (natural drugs) released in the brain when we lose are very addictive in nature. This opens up the possibility of people actually craving the hormonal release that comes through losing, without knowing it’s the “natural drugs” they crave and not the actual gambling.

Any drug addiction is hard to overcome, let alone one that you are not even aware of.

Those most at risk would have addictive personality traits, which gamblers usually have on some level.

This is why I’m loathe to advise people to go out and lose, even if it’s a necessary part of becoming a proficient gambler.
 
« Last Edit: July 27, 2016, 06:54:39 AM by Trilobite »
 
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scepticus

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Re: My best advice: Go lose some money!
« Reply #8 on: July 27, 2016, 09:46:28 AM »
You are right Kav, that we all start from the same place and that we are all likely to lose money along the way.
Its dangerous advice though because scientific studies show that the hormones (natural drugs) released in the brain when we lose are very addictive in nature. This opens up the possibility of people actually craving the hormonal release that comes through losing, without knowing it’s the “natural drugs” they crave and not the actual gambling.

Any drug addiction is hard to overcome, let alone one that you are not even aware of.

Those most at risk would have addictive personality traits, which gamblers usually have on some level.

This is why I’m loathe to advise people to go out and lose, even if it’s a necessary part of becoming a proficient gambler.

I don't think kav was advocating people to lose, Trilo. I think he meant " Stop Talking and go to a casino and PLAY ". If they play then they should be prepared to lose because losing is something that happens. Losing  is part of the learning curve and brings newbies down from cloud 9 into the real world of gambling .
 
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Reyth

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Re: My best advice: Go lose some money!
« Reply #9 on: July 28, 2016, 04:17:42 PM »
Playing my Bullseye variation and losing my shirt is part of who my "roulette self" actually is.  The experience is literally BURNED into my mind as a lesson on exactly how successive variance actually works and the dangers of using a static bet selection/unbroken gambling session.  I sat there and spun the wheel over 2000 times before my bankroll finally fell.  It was the stupidest thing I ever did but it definitely made me smarter and what I learned is now part of my work and how I prepare against losses, in roulette. :D
« Last Edit: July 28, 2016, 04:22:44 PM by Reyth »
 
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lone wolf

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Re: My best advice: Go lose some money!
« Reply #10 on: July 28, 2016, 06:16:31 PM »
Addicts do not deliberately lose - they try to stay IN the game at any cost because they are addicted.

This is not a truism by an means.  Scores of professionals in the study of compulsive/addicted gamblers believe that many have a deep seated wish to lose for a variety of neurotic and psychotic reasons.  It is in losing, not winning that feeds their habit.
 

Reyth

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Re: My best advice: Go lose some money!
« Reply #11 on: July 28, 2016, 10:21:24 PM »
Addicts do not deliberately lose - they try to stay IN the game at any cost because they are addicted.

This is not a truism by an means.  Scores of professionals in the study of compulsive/addicted gamblers believe that many have a deep seated wish to lose for a variety of neurotic and psychotic reasons.  It is in losing, not winning that feeds their habit.

LOL.  Queue the Al Pacino Pucker VideoTM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HdE-BZoB9SA
« Last Edit: July 28, 2016, 10:28:17 PM by Reyth »
 

scepticus

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Re: My best advice: Go lose some money!
« Reply #12 on: July 29, 2016, 01:33:24 AM »
Addicts do not deliberately lose - they try to stay IN the game at any cost because they are addicted.

This is not a truism by an means.  Scores of professionals in the study of compulsive/addicted gamblers believe that many have a deep seated wish to lose for a variety of neurotic and psychotic reasons.  It is in losing, not winning that feeds their habit.
An opinion is an opinion is an opinion.
Addicts are DRAWN to alcoholism-drugs-gambling. Their habits need to be fed .There are many who advise roulette players  to " enjoy" the game because   they must  " expect " to lose. Are all of  those who heed this advice "addicts" because they "know " that they will lose ?
 
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lone wolf

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Re: My best advice: Go lose some money!
« Reply #13 on: July 29, 2016, 04:06:52 AM »
Addicts do not deliberately lose - they try to stay IN the game at any cost because they are addicted.

This is not a truism by an means.  Scores of professionals in the study of compulsive/addicted gamblers believe that many have a deep seated wish to lose for a variety of neurotic and psychotic reasons.  It is in losing, not winning that feeds their habit.
An opinion is an opinion is an opinion.
Addicts are DRAWN to alcoholism-drugs-gambling. Their habits need to be fed .There are many who advise roulette players  to " enjoy" the game because   they must  " expect " to lose. Are all of  those who heed this advice "addicts" because they "know " that they will lose ?

I think you are drawing a sort of upside Socratic logic to my post.

Roulette players are no different than any others who risk money on games of chance that have odds stacked against them, so this isn't a carve out for roulette--it applies to all other casino games, sportsbetting and horseracing.  And I think it's excellent advice to remind gamblers, whether recreational or otherwise, they should not expect to win. There should be other motivations, such as entertainment, intellectual challenge etc.

And not ALL compulsive/degenerate gamblers  have a lose wish; their disease may have different root causes.  But those that do and don't realize it may only come to understand after getting the proper counselling and professional help.  One size doesn't fit all septicus.
 

Bebediktus

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Re: My best advice: Go lose some money!
« Reply #14 on: July 29, 2016, 06:48:02 AM »

The saddest part is that there are many players who have lost money playing roulette and yet they have not learned much. I categorize these people as pure gamblers. Recently I met a guy who plays roulette for 20 years, yet his understanding of roulette strategy is pretty poor. He is not stupid. And I can not explain his lack of deeper understanding.  So my advice does not always work. Losing at roulette is not always a learning experience for everyone.

I think you mix players and gamblers... :) . Between them are huge diference. Gambler not think - he only believe in wining possibility...
Many, who think - they are players - really are gamblers ...

Then, from players are amateurs and professionals - again huge diference.But here abit other diference - amateur maybe/ about  know what he must do, but not know how.

Professional not only know what to do, but also know how ...

Then, are good professionals and bad professionals ... :)
 
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