Author Topic: About airball roulette  (Read 18671 times)

Birima

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About airball roulette
« on: December 19, 2014, 12:34:56 PM »
I want to share my experience about playing airball roulette and exchange experience with other players.

I compiled my findings in the youtube video after I started noticing suspicious behavior from these type of wheels.

Alarm bells went of when I came across the following patent US Patent Application No: 2014/0015 194

The links towards the video and the patent can be found in the attachment.

« Last Edit: December 19, 2014, 07:11:20 PM by Birima »


 

TheGenner

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Re: About airball roulette
« Reply #1 on: December 19, 2014, 06:16:58 PM »
Thanks for posting the links Birima,

 I used to play a few of the older style autowheels, however, I won't touch the new ones.

These new air compressed wheels look very strange to me. It's almost like the ball floats into the desired pocket. Reading the patent in the attatchment just confirms that this is the next evolutionary step in taking all the skill out of the game.

One of my local casinos used to have the touchscreen terminals linked up to both the live wheels and the autowheels. Now they only link up the autowheels to the terminals.

Players need to vote with their feet and refuse to play these things, however 95% of the patrons probably don't really care what contraption the casino use as long as they can get a bet down.

 

Birima

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Re: About airball roulette
« Reply #2 on: December 19, 2014, 06:31:21 PM »
If I come to think about it, most of this newer model airball have not less then 16! diamonds and deep pockets. The interblock doesn't show a lot of scatter, actually almost no scatter. Coincidence? I don't think so because scatter and spinners are uncontrollable. It helps them to steering the ball towards a certain pocket or empty sector. It feels like this mechanism takes control when I start betting. If I am only watching without betting, I see very playable repeating patterns. I was able to find them through secretly filming the devices and reverse engineer the spins. In the case of Interblock, machines are configured differently from each other and probably have different software updates.  I will not play any of them anymore and will go back to the live table. Wasted quiet some time on them.

« Last Edit: December 19, 2014, 07:01:14 PM by Birima »
 

kav

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Re: About airball roulette
« Reply #3 on: December 19, 2014, 10:24:47 PM »
This is really disappointing.
I have my doubts about physical roulette wheels on tables too.
People say casinos win anyway so why risk with rigged wheels.
My answer is that human greed is immeasurable.
Here's a related article:
Electronic Airball roulette: Fair or Fake?

and this:
http://www.roulette30.com/2010/04/rigged-roulette-wheel.html
« Last Edit: March 25, 2017, 10:41:00 AM by kav »
 

Real

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Re: About airball roulette
« Reply #4 on: December 19, 2014, 10:26:15 PM »
As an expert on visual ballisitcs, the more diamonds there, the better it is for the player.
 

Birima

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Re: About airball roulette
« Reply #5 on: December 19, 2014, 11:21:38 PM »
Yes Real, I agree with you unless the RNG choses the number before or during actual ball launch as depicted in this patent. It then works the other way around and against you.
« Last Edit: December 20, 2014, 09:21:18 PM by Birima »
 

Birima

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Re: About airball roulette
« Reply #6 on: December 20, 2014, 09:33:16 AM »
Quote
This is really disappointing.
I have my doubts about physical roulette wheels on tables too.
People say casinos win anyway so why risk with rigged wheels.
My answer is that human greed is immeasurable.

Kav,

Besides the link to your article, do you have personal experience with possible rigged live tables?
 

kav

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Re: About airball roulette
« Reply #7 on: December 20, 2014, 09:09:43 PM »
Kav,
Besides the link to your article, do you have personal experience with possible rigged live tables?
I have noticed some strange things, that may not be considered scientific evidence or proof, but made me start thinking. 18 is bet to maximum, the ball hits 18 and last moment jumps to 22 which none was betting. That kind of things I have observed too often in specific establishments. A friend of mine did a test by checking his loss rate in more than 8K spins and it was near 15% instead of 2,7%. At some point, he just gave his remaining chips to the croupier and told him "take these without even betting, it will save me time and frustration". My friend is a mathematician by the way.
« Last Edit: December 20, 2014, 09:11:57 PM by kav »
 

Birima

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Re: About airball roulette
« Reply #8 on: December 20, 2014, 09:19:07 PM »
Hmmm, interesting anecdote Kav. What is this world coming to when you can't even trust casino's anymore.  :-)
 

Azim

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Re: About airball roulette
« Reply #9 on: December 22, 2014, 07:01:07 AM »
Birima,
I am sure you think and so do the rest think the machines are rigged. I don't think so.
I know for a fact that they have to keep a certain profit. The wheel itself is making enough profit for them not to rig it even more.
Do you by any chance have recorded numbers from that machine? If you have how many do you have per session?
If you haven't and are willing to record number's on a busy day, and analyze those number's you will find the following observation.
36 - 37 numbers will hit by spin 160 - 170
35th    number by about spin 125 - 150.
34th     number by about spin 105
30 - 33 numbers by spin 85.
26 - 29 numbers by spin 75.
24 - 25 numbers by spin 50
This numbers are give and take depending on how busy the machine is.
If you want can you upload them. I would love to have a look at them.
 

Birima

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Re: About airball roulette
« Reply #10 on: December 22, 2014, 08:05:30 AM »
Hi Azim,

I have about 4000 recorded numbers and you wouldn't find odd things. The problem starts when you start putting money on the table. Then the nature of distribution changes especially since these machines can recognize sector playing and betting after ball release. The patent describes that the number is chosen before or during ball release this patent is about a newer machine, I was never able to find a G4 patent. My last experience, I was playing alone which maybe doesn't help also and then, not all the machines have the same software updates or configuration settings. Maybe the one you are playing is good but be warned.

Best regards

 
 

Azim

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Re: About airball roulette
« Reply #11 on: December 22, 2014, 09:06:45 AM »
I like to play alone on those machines when I am testing something.

[/size]I don't think they are rigged.[size=78%]

That could just be me being lucky at the time.

I have actually seen a number go from cold to hot to cold. It's the best and easiest wheel to beat. Mind you I have been studying the 3 wheels we have for about 18-24 months. There is nothing wrong with the numbers getting picked before or after the ball is released.
 

Birima

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Re: About airball roulette
« Reply #12 on: January 17, 2015, 11:37:47 PM »
I digged up some other raw material from patents online for those who still doubt the predictive capabilities of auto/ air ball roulettes (This might become my new hobby).

This...

The location of the roulette ball and the home position may be determined at 608, e.g., when the roulette ball comes to a stop in a slot. Alternatively, predictive techniques may be used to determine in advance which slot will receive the roulette ball. Some such techniques may involve determining a ball position and/or trajectory when the ball has slowed to a threshold speed. Some such implementations provide magnets or the like to influence which slot will receive the ball, e.g.,

And this...

The rotation of the roulette wheel may be stopped at 610 to indicate the winning number corresponding with a random number generated by the random number generator.

And this...

In another embodiment, the separator may not have any separators as discussed above. As such, the sensor may be a plurality of electromagnets coupled to the underside of each of the slots. Once the random winning number is generated, the electromagnet under the slot corresponding to the winning number on the outer and/or inner ring may be activated to attract the roulette ball. The processor may then control the spin of the outer ring, separator ring, and inner ring to stop at the random winner number. In another embodiment, only one electromagnet may be required wherein the ball will always stop in the same slot. The processor may then control the spin of the outer ring, separator ring, and inner ring to stop at the random winner number.
A solution to overcome these problems is provided in US 7 762 883 , disclosing a motorized random number based roulette wheel. When a game of roulette is played, a number generator is arranged to provide a random number to a processor. Thereafter, the ball decreases in speed and enter one of the slots which is noticed by the processor. The rotation of the wheel is then decreased and controlled by means of a motor such that the number provided to the processor by the number generator corresponds to the slot where the ball has entered, i.e. the winning number is the number generated by the random number generator.

Cheers to all
 

Real

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Re: About airball roulette
« Reply #13 on: January 18, 2015, 12:04:46 AM »
Quote from: Birma
In another embodiment, the separator may not have any separators as discussed above. As such, the sensor may be a plurality of electromagnets coupled to the underside of each of the slots. Once the random winning number is generated, the electromagnet under the slot corresponding to the winning number on the outer and/or inner ring may be activated to attract the roulette ball. The processor may then control the spin of the outer ring, separator ring, and inner ring to stop at the random winner number. In another embodiment, only one electromagnet may be required wherein the ball will always stop in the same slot. The processor may then control the spin of the outer ring, separator ring, and inner ring to stop at the random winner number.A solution to overcome these problems is provided in US 7 762 883 , disclosing a motorized random number based roulette wheel. When a game of roulette is played, a number generator is arranged to provide a random number to a processor. Thereafter, the ball decreases in speed and enter one of the slots which is noticed by the processor. The rotation of the wheel is then decreased and controlled by means of a motor such that the number provided to the processor by the number generator corresponds to the slot where the ball has entered, i.e. the winning number is the number generated by the random number generator.


If the machine used an electromagnet to pull the ball to a certain spot, then we could simply use and magnetic detector in order to determine which number had been preselected by the RNG, hopefully before the machine calls no more bets.

It pays to read the patents.

-Real
 

Birima

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Re: About airball roulette
« Reply #14 on: January 18, 2015, 12:19:09 AM »
Quote
If the machine used an electromagnet to pull the ball to a certain spot, then we could simply use and magnetic detector in order to determine which number had been preselected by the RNG, hopefully before the machine calls no more bets.

That might look a little awkward if not suspicious, to hang over the dome with a magnet detector  :-).

I am sure the process takes place after 'No More Bets' (NMB).