BetVoyager Portal

Author Topic: Can Roulette house edge be reduced?  (Read 2960 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

McCoy

  • New
  • **
  • Posts: 95
  • Thanked: 60 times
Can Roulette house edge be reduced?
« on: August 31, 2017, 10:46:22 AM »
Playing many of few numbers alone doesn't offer any kind of advantage or disadvantage.

kav I'm not so sure about that. Betting on fewer numbers doesn't expose so much of your bankroll to the house edge, and as for hot versus cold numbers my research seems to show that betting on hot numbers gives better results. I'll open a new thread to post some of my findings later.
« Last Edit: August 31, 2017, 05:27:49 PM by kav »


 
The following users thanked this post: mr j, Reyth

kav

  • www.Roulette30.com
  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2086
  • Thanked: 1075 times
  • Gender: Male
Re: Can Roulette house edge be reduced?
« Reply #1 on: August 31, 2017, 12:10:12 PM »
McCoy,
If you don't want exposure to the house edge you simply don't play roulette.
Exposure to the house edge doesn't relate to how many numbers you bet but to how much you bet.

I totally agree we should open a new topic for this discussion.
 

McCoy

  • New
  • **
  • Posts: 95
  • Thanked: 60 times
Re: Can Roulette house edge be reduced?
« Reply #2 on: August 31, 2017, 03:47:14 PM »
If your aim is to negate the house advantage NOTHING is effective.

That seems to be a strange point of view from someone who runs a site devoted to roulette. What's the point if nothing works?

Quote
Exposure to the house edge doesn't relate to how many numbers you bet but to how much you bet.

I beg to differ. Two people betting the same amount but one on an even chance and one on a single number won't lose at the same rate. The guy betting on the single number will always have more opportunities to quit with a decent profit, and furthermore, the guy betting the even chance will always lose his entire bank first. I can prove it, but not here. I'll start another thread and also post my findings relating to hot numbers.  :)
« Last Edit: August 31, 2017, 04:42:48 PM by McCoy »
 

kav

  • www.Roulette30.com
  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2086
  • Thanked: 1075 times
  • Gender: Male
Re: Can Roulette house edge be reduced?
« Reply #3 on: August 31, 2017, 05:06:29 PM »
The point is that I don't consider the house advantage significant. In order to be successful you have to overcome much bigger obstacles, like the variance. Winning or losing is not about the house edge. The house edge is the entry fee, the rent of the store. You can not avoid paying rent, but the rent is NOT what makes stores make money or going bankrupt.
It is all explained here:


and here:

http://www.roulette30.com/2013/10/roulette-house-edge-strategy.html

If you know how the house edge affects the average expectation you would understand that average expectation is not affected the type of your bets. This is also explained in the video above.

Even throwing your chips randomly on the roulette table will have the same mathematical average expectation like any other bet. The house edge is the rent of the store and you simply can not avoid it. Now what you do with your business in the store is a totally different story.

I'm curious though to read your reasoning that some bets are more advantageous than others.

PS: Only exception is the Basket bet on American roulette bet (both the zero pockets and the numbers 1, 2 and 3) This bet pays worse than any other bet. Also there is the exception of Le Prison and La Partage rules, that make Simple Chance bets more favorable. Otherwise all bets on roulette, depending on how much you bet, offer the same average expectation.
« Last Edit: August 31, 2017, 05:37:54 PM by kav »
 
The following users thanked this post: Reyth

scepticus

  • Hero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 2401
  • Thanked: 521 times
Re: Can Roulette house edge be reduced?
« Reply #4 on: August 31, 2017, 05:12:01 PM »

Mc Coy
If you don't know WHY the  EC or Sole  Number is chosen you cannot PROVE your statement. The only way you can PROVE it is by ACTUAL  real bets. Theory is one thing Reality is another thing. To quote Yogi Berra "
" In theory. theory  and practice  are the same thing . In practice they ain't ". 
 
 

McCoy

  • New
  • **
  • Posts: 95
  • Thanked: 60 times
Re: Can Roulette house edge be reduced?
« Reply #5 on: August 31, 2017, 07:03:33 PM »
kav the video is very misleading, in fact it's just plain wrong. I can't imagine why you believe that the problem is variance, maybe it's so scary for you because you chase losses with insane progressions and don't have an edge? Variance works both ways and in roulette there are just as many favourable runs as unfavourable ones. Use a sensible staking plan like level stakes or percentage of bank and the "run from hell" won't hurt you as long as you've made allowances for what the longest losing run is likely to be for the odds you're betting (there is formula for this). And it's wrong to say that you won't win if you're given one chip every 100 spins and there is no house edge, if that's the case then the edge is clearly in your favour at 1% so you will inevitably win over time given those conditions. It's obvious you haven't actually simulated this otherwise you wouldn't have made such a statement.

And I didn't say that the expectations are not the same for both a single number and multiple numbers. What I said was that if betting many numbers your money will run out before someone who is betting only one number. In the long run the bets are no different as regards expectation, but I don't know why you even bring that up because you say in the video that nobody loses at exactly the rate of the house edge, and with that I agree. It seems like you're contradicting yourself.

scepticus numbers speak louder than words. That's how I prove it.
 

kav

  • www.Roulette30.com
  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2086
  • Thanked: 1075 times
  • Gender: Male
Re: Can Roulette house edge be reduced?
« Reply #6 on: August 31, 2017, 07:28:07 PM »
McCoy,
If the average expectation is the same then there is no favorable bet.
Then why do you disagree with my statement that:"Exposure to the house edge doesn't relate to how many numbers you bet but to how much you bet."

I really wonder in what grounds you claim that "if betting many numbers your money will run out before someone who is betting only one number"

Do this test:
Bet $100 on a single number and see how fast you lose $1000
Bet $100 on Red and see how fast you lose $1000
Then do it again.
There is no advantage per se in betting single or few numbers.

Negative Variance is about "more than averagely  (theoretically) expected losses".  It happens independently whether you bet few hot numbers or many cold numbers with crazy progressions or flat betting. 

I see, in your opinion all bad things happen to people who use the martingale on Simple Chances. And the smart guys bet few hot numbers. And for some strange reason people who bet few hot numbers don't experience negative variance. Anyways...

So you believe that if I gave you 1 chip every 100 bets you will be a winner? By betting what? Both Red and Black? By betting everything - which is like no betting at all? I'm asking for a real system. And how long is "inevitably over time"? In the challenge I specifically asked for 100% guaranteed results in say 1000 spins. Think it over there's no such system, even with the house edge in your favour. There is always a spin sequence that can beat you and you can not exclude it.

Anyway, this is my position. I don't want to sound patronizing. You are absolutely free to believe what you want. Every opinion is respected by me even if I disagree.
I would love to read your proof.
« Last Edit: August 31, 2017, 08:04:33 PM by kav »
 

BlueAngel

  • I always express my opinion
  • Hero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 1571
  • Thanked: 243 times
  • Gender: Male
  • Do you want truth? You cannot handle the truth!
Re: Can Roulette house edge be reduced?
« Reply #7 on: August 31, 2017, 09:52:52 PM »
Quote
In the challenge I specifically asked for 100% guaranteed results in say 1000 spins. Think it over there's no such system, even with the house edge in your favour. There is always a spin sequence that can beat you and you can not exclude it.
Kav

Where is that challenge? Or it was more like rhetoric question, like asking and replying to yourself?

Who says there isn't? Just because you cannot find it yourself?

A spin sequence is just a spin sequence, by losing a battle we don't have to lose the war.

Sometimes the most obvious become subtle as we focus on a maze of details...perhaps you've abandoned reason my old friend but I didn't.
 

kav

  • www.Roulette30.com
  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2086
  • Thanked: 1075 times
  • Gender: Male
Re: Can Roulette house edge be reduced?
« Reply #8 on: August 31, 2017, 10:08:07 PM »
BA,

The challenge is here
This has nothing to do with what I have found myself. This is about the house edge. The challenge says that any system that wins without the house edge can be transformed to a system that wins with the house edge.
But please do not respond before reading the details here
This is not about who has a winning system or a longer penis.
This is about if the house edge is the deciding factor that makes people lose.
« Last Edit: August 31, 2017, 10:14:19 PM by kav »
 

MrPerfect.

  • Hero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 1556
  • Thanked: 878 times
Re: Can Roulette house edge be reduced?
« Reply #9 on: August 31, 2017, 10:24:47 PM »
Is it a house edge that make a gambler loose... many believe it, including casinos themselves.  They bield huge industry around this belive, lands, properties, huge revenues. ... they belive it and pile up the money. Looks like it really work for them. They got a good " system" to play with.
 
The following users thanked this post: BlueAngel

scepticus

  • Hero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 2401
  • Thanked: 521 times
Re: Can Roulette house edge be reduced?
« Reply #10 on: August 31, 2017, 10:26:54 PM »

Mc Coy
So far you have given only words. I look forward to you posting "numbers " .
 

kav

  • www.Roulette30.com
  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2086
  • Thanked: 1075 times
  • Gender: Male
Re: Can Roulette house edge be reduced?
« Reply #11 on: August 31, 2017, 10:41:34 PM »
MrPerfect,
How about the unlimited bankroll of the casino vs the limited bankroll of the player?
How about table limits?
How about players playing for fun or drunk without any strategy?
It is much more than just the house edge.
And btw, many casinos are losing money
http://money.cnn.com/2016/01/08/news/vegas-nevada-casinos-losses/index.html

My point is not that the house edge doesn't work for the casino. It does. I already said it a lot of times that the house edge is an advantage for the casino and a disadvantage for the player. How many times should I say it? My point is that to the serious roulette player the house edge is just a nuisance compared to other bigger obstacles he has to overcome. It is not the deciding factor.
 
The following users thanked this post: Reyth

BlueAngel

  • I always express my opinion
  • Hero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 1571
  • Thanked: 243 times
  • Gender: Male
  • Do you want truth? You cannot handle the truth!
Re: Can Roulette house edge be reduced?
« Reply #12 on: August 31, 2017, 11:00:28 PM »
Quote
How about the unlimited bankroll of the casino vs the limited bankroll of the player?

Irrelevant, money don't make decisions but decisions could make money.

Quote
How about table limits?

When casinos adapt narrow spread between min an max bet, such as x5 or x20 that is important obstacle.

Quote
How about players playing for fun or drunk without any strategy?

This is not my problem but for some means entertainment.
 
The following users thanked this post: kav

scepticus

  • Hero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 2401
  • Thanked: 521 times
Re: Can Roulette house edge be reduced?
« Reply #13 on: September 01, 2017, 12:22:37 AM »

It is generally accepted that some profit when betting blackjack. DESPITE the unfair odds.
It is generally accepted that some profit when betting horses. DESPITE the unfair odds .
So clearly the unfair odds is NOT the dominant. factor.
It clearly is " something "they use to profit..   In those 2 cases it is " information  ".
So we  roulette players  try to find that elusive "  something".

 
 
The following users thanked this post: kav, Reyth

MrPerfect.

  • Hero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 1556
  • Thanked: 878 times
Re: Can Roulette house edge be reduced?
« Reply #14 on: September 01, 2017, 01:33:17 AM »
Kav, serious roulette players get the edge for themselves, HE in this case serve only to scare fools. No serious player even care about HE because players edge is much higher. ... there is other side of coin as well. If player (who disrupt odds) make a mistake it cost much more, HE in this case can be compared to end of the year discount  ( sells) .
    Obviously there are other problems as well, spread sometimes sucks, countermeasures, damn eye in the sky, limit on win due to docs show off nessesity... ets. But how it's related to the loss?
    On my opinion, if player can not win, he shouldn't play, no point to bother with why, need to focus on what makes player win instead.
 
The following users thanked this post: kav