### Author Topic: Why click- click revolution of ball computers is stupidity.  (Read 835 times)

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#### MrPerfect.

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##### Why click- click revolution of ball computers is stupidity.
« on: August 29, 2017, 01:38:10 PM »
There is a floating semi- constant variable called " reaction time". Its used for example in driving, when person determine nesessary distance of safety from the car in front....
This variable is semi- constant..
Means that it is "x" +/- some value , depending on degree of focus, tireness, ability to switch from one visual focus point to another...ets.
These who drive, they know that they take some time from they see red stop light on front car and hit brake themselves,  this time show variety depending on the car speed.
Same happens in roulette. When player click on ball in determined place ( diamond), his reaction time is almost the same, but timings of revolutions change due to deceleration of ball.
It makes that ball travel in the beginning more distance while player click,  and later less distance. Timings become distorted due to this phenomenon.  While ball is speedy , error in clicking often is bigger then difference in time between revolutions of the ball.
Then such a " computer" has to operate flowed data to "gess" to wich sample belongs current spin click mistakes..  it's a stupidity over stupidity, if you ask my humble opinion.
That's why my rc does not collect revolutions of the ball or care about them.

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#### MrPerfect.

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##### Re: Why click- click revolution of ball computers is stupidity.
« Reply #1 on: October 25, 2017, 02:48:36 AM »
There is a sad moviment in vb community to try and automate players decisions. This is what ultimately leaded to creation of roulette computers at the first place.
Besides problems listed above, there are other problems hardware related... these who are serious about rc creation probably already faced these.
1. Button response time. If incorrect button is used, depending on the vector of pressure upplyed,  response time may show variations.  Example of such a thing would be "acrobat 3" that l bought few years from myrulet website. It took me some time to figure this one out...
Device has huge button ( comparatively) , pressure upplyed to the side of the button or to the centre may vary in recognition time up to 300ms!!! In some cases ( angles ) press wasn't recognised at all.
2. Interapt routines handling... let's face it, if we want multifunctional rc, we need to use Interapt routines. Wich problems may arise? Most common is to wrap some action as a call function and specify Interapt routine outside of it in main block of code. Folks ( stupid programmers) tend to overlook this problem.
What happens is ,while function ( action) is executed , response time for Interapt may be extended , especially if same button is used for both, operating the function and signaling Interapt routine.
Resolution for this one is tricky. ... l overcome this problem using global variable to initiate time interval. Global in this case mean same name of variable  for both main part of code and functions that may be called. This way marking initial time value for time intervals measurements is not affected by response time of Interapt routines. We need accuracy, right?

There are others problems with rc creators... most of them are not players themselves,  or they wanna rc perform different algorithm then if they would play vb.
There are obvious pros for vb , comparing with rc... for vb need just look, for rc need to look and click. ... it introduces errors in measurement of timing intervals... especially for a ball.
I went entirely different road in my rc creation. Essentially,  my rc is just an add for vb player. It doesn't predict at all, l do not inform it of the ball speed observations.... instead of helping to rc to process timings , my rc helps a player to process them , rc is just used to mark precise time intervals ( what it does better) and player focus eyes on the ball ( what vb player does better).
It permits to elminate majority of whatever errors normally introduced by use of conventional rc algorithms.  In simple words, it gives ability to the vb player process timings with accuracy of microprocessor.
How many of you dreamed about having futuristic gadget to predict roulette? Instead of creating such a gadget ( Wich is difficult) l made a player to become one using much more simple and logical solution.

Few more words on problems.... rc has a huge one. It's adjustment for changing conditions. Rc Wich think and processes information to take decisions instead of player require time to adjust it's database...... vb player has similar problems but of different nature...it's a problem to measure timing intervals precisely in order to determine how to adjust and if adjustment is required.
My rc informs.... player using my rc can adjust on the very next spin to the changes observed. With some practice and expirience adjustment is possible on the current spin.
Qwolity and velocity ( how many spins required) does considerable affect on the players margin.

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#### kav

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##### Re: Why click- click revolution of ball computers is stupidity.
« Reply #2 on: October 25, 2017, 06:54:01 AM »
Much needed info and comments - thank you. It is a real life analysis of roulette computers and their many limitations. As much research as I did when writing the Roulette Computers Guide, I couldn't have the insight you have and none was willing to shed more light at the time.

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#### MrPerfect.

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##### Re: Why click- click revolution of ball computers is stupidity.
« Reply #3 on: October 25, 2017, 03:04:29 PM »
Thanks, Kav.
Unfortunately,  problems do not finish there... it's just a top of an iceberg.
Computer is just a device. It's ability to predict depends on how good is prediction algorithm ( programme itself).
To create a proper algorithm for prediction need to posses not only programming skills,  but these of engineers as well....
The thing is that to predict we need some point where to account from. Most obvious solution for it is to determine specific ball rotation that takes fixed amount of time. Unfortunately spins are all ( almost all) different and time of specific rotation may never repeat itself, be shifted by some value or belong entirely to different spin type and produce very different result.
A's we can see, most obvious and logical solution for this problem is most wrong possible as well. If computer has a sample constituted of ball rotation timings, it expects current spin to have same timings of ball rotations and "follow" the sample. If there are few samples, computer has to "curve fit " curent spin timings to most probable sample it has into his database.... but who told that current spin has obligations to follow what was there before?
If the timings are shifted( happens almost always) , there is no way for such rc to " curve fitt" properly to the sample it has. Reason is simple- it's a different spin. They all or almost all are different.
So the real qeestion for vb or rc is : " where the hell is that point from wich we should account our time interval to form prediction and control / adjust for a changes? ".  If it's definitely not where we click to obtain timings of ball rotations and not in timing of ball rotations itself... where should we look for it, right?
Answer for this question is what really separate men from boys in this art of predictive roulette play. What if l told you that this point is not really on roulette , but is a result of complex physics equation that deal with wheel & ball velocity, deceleration rate for both , length of ball track ...ets. Yet it still can be observed as a reference number on the rotor , just the position of this reference number is constantly moving together with rotor while the ball spins.
I simplified this complex formula till very simple and easy to upply " rulls" and this is exactly what my visual ballistic system " vb3" is. VB3 points directly on the point required for adjustment on both rotor position and time. It adjusts for differences in ball rotation timings and provides way to measure time intervals from " fixed" point into the ball''s spin process( or ball speed if you prefere) .
The truth is , vb is simple, it's just a way to calculate rotor moviment from specific point into the spin and it uses for it both rotor velocity and time ball has to go. Difficult part of it is to find this point''s precise location. For it need to know vb3 or be an engineer to descover it by yourself.

#### Bebediktus

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##### Re: Why click- click revolution of ball computers is stupidity.
« Reply #4 on: October 25, 2017, 03:58:10 PM »
I not understand aim of such your writings, but mostly you here missed. How you can talk about what you not know ? You start from talks about how click click  create some human react  mistakes, but that only show that you not understand how this part must work.
VB player not only look to runing ball - he do much things when he looks and devices help him to do these things...

If all will go like i think now, one day i will finish mine roulette predictions simulator, on which everybody can check how exact is his prediction simply online. Then all can see how sharp is you or your RC in predicttions  .
Now all talks about what is good what is bad are only words.
Click click is simply start of something, so something what not let player to miss very much. But that is nothing if it is separate and you look to that like to separate event , but it is not separate it is only part of something  .
Looks that you see only pick of Iceberg , but not see main part ....

#### kav

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##### Re: Why click- click revolution of ball computers is stupidity.
« Reply #5 on: October 25, 2017, 04:04:07 PM »
The bottom of the iceberg is that using a roulette computer in a casino is prohibited and you will be in trouble if they catch you.

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#### Bebediktus

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##### Re: Why click- click revolution of ball computers is stupidity.
« Reply #6 on: October 25, 2017, 05:08:41 PM »
That is not important expectattion of such are almoust 0.

The bottom of the iceberg is understanding game....

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#### MrPerfect.

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##### Re: Why click- click revolution of ball computers is stupidity.
« Reply #7 on: October 26, 2017, 10:15:15 AM »
@Kav, Bb... you both are right. It's not easy to spot rc player and it's highly inconvenience to be spotted with rc.
@Bb. "Idea of such wrigtings " is double :
1. Self publicity.
2. Make anyone who wanna develop rc know potential problems associated with the task. At least these that l faced they may escape.
Simulator is a good idea, ld like to play with it a bit when it's ready... keep me updated please.
Idea of "proper" rc is to inform the player, without reliable feedback from such a device it's difficult for individual player to make decisions.  Now... what exactly rc can inform a player about. Most important info is consistency and duration of time interval from moment of prediction to ball drop. For that revolutions of the ball is not very valuable information. Because they are not stable in timings.
My answer to this problem is to focus on ball speed in relation to point on the wheel where to click and account time ball takes from there. If anyone has different answer to this problem, l will be super curios to know how to do it better.
It's kind of " sircular reference " problem. Without proper tools it's imposible to achieve understanding of the game, without understanding we can nor get proper algorithm of prediction and tools supporting it.
That's why feedback and proper data is important. I couldn't in the moment to develop rc that holds days of data due to hardware limitations... so l decided on feedback of time variables. It gave me higher level of understanding of the game. Next step is to actually collect data that reflects this new understanding to see " how deep is a rabit hole"

#### Bebediktus

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##### Re: Why click- click revolution of ball computers is stupidity.
« Reply #8 on: October 26, 2017, 07:38:26 PM »
Such writings in most cases only will do worse for somebody , you not know who read this forum.
Look to that chinese man, who was banned from casino even not started to play...
So before you write, think twice if is necesarry for you to write and what can be results . Maybe results can be worse than benefit... ?

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#### MrPerfect.

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##### Re: Why click- click revolution of ball computers is stupidity.
« Reply #9 on: October 26, 2017, 07:58:43 PM »
If l do remember correctly, Chinese was given brilliant advice to film in casino, that's why he was banned. And this advice didn't come from me.
I gave him advice to do everything correctly and think before doing something.  Result was a profile on the wheel he was going to play.
Sad that he didn't finish it... desisted or decided to not share profits and play by himself, bit it's already another story...

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#### Bebediktus

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##### Re: Why click- click revolution of ball computers is stupidity.
« Reply #10 on: October 26, 2017, 08:39:42 PM »
Quote
If l do remember correctly,

Looks that here main word is IF....

Quote
Chinese was given brilliant advice to film in casino, that's why he was banned. And this advice didn't come from me.
I think he was banned because used some other texnick, but that is not main - main is that he done that openly !!!
So that is real stupidity - not click click....itself , but writing about that....
I remeber once i posted photo of casino card where possible was to see name of casino... ABCD wanted to kill me for that....

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#### MrPerfect.

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##### Re: Why click- click revolution of ball computers is stupidity.
« Reply #11 on: October 26, 2017, 09:48:29 PM »
In this particular case main word is "film".
Casinos well aware about click - click . They pay attention to these things. Ones l decided to take timings with stopwatch app on the phone... result was similar. I wasn't banned,  but couldn't play either.
Moral of the story: player should think before doing something.

#### MrPerfect.

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##### Re: Why click- click revolution of ball computers is stupidity.
« Reply #12 on: December 21, 2017, 11:22:33 AM »
Simple test to understand error in clicks and visual perception of speeds and timings:
Do following :
Videotape few spins (3-5) from any online casino where video is good.
1. Install avidemux software and take manually timings that wheel and ball does and input in excel
2. Look numbers at most visible diamond when ball pass ( frame by frame) and input in excel...
3. Replay video with vlc or similar..  with voice recorder in your hand..  tell numbers wich you see when ball pass on that diamond.
4. Take stopwatch or something that permits to take timings ( multilap stop watch app)...
Click every time that ball pass on that diamond and collect timings putting them in excel..  side by side with these collected previously. ...
5 Compare both click timings with real, observed numbers with real...
These who do test , will understand something very valuable ..... l would like to receive such test results on my pm for future reference. .. if you do not mind.
Thank you.

#### Bebediktus

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##### Re: Why click- click revolution of ball computers is stupidity.
« Reply #13 on: December 21, 2017, 11:55:58 AM »
You  said nothing new - all know, that peoples have some reaction time, which is random in any moment in some range , so are mistakes - to understand that - not need to make tests....

But which relationship between fact, that peoples do mistakes  ( everybody and everywhere them do ) and  play results ?
Results are not based on mistakes !!!

Good player know, where he do mistakes, you like "best player in the world" must also that know ...  .
If you think that clicks create mistakes and they not let you to win - simply not do them. Nobody push you do that, what  not let you to win !!

#### MrPerfect.

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##### Re: Why click- click revolution of ball computers is stupidity.
« Reply #14 on: December 21, 2017, 12:16:12 PM »
I already did this test for myself. Now lm curios to compare results of my test to results of other people.
I do not say lm the best, but l definitely will become one sooner or later.
You say good player... and how many are out there? OK,  l was lucky to meet You and Real, Toby and others,  so l can say that " lm standing on the shoulders of giants "... even so l had to "reinvent bycicle" by myself.
You could do test as well... it doesn't take much time. I would be curios to see your results.