### Author Topic: How do you manage cluster bets on the felt?  (Read 143 times)

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#### MickyP

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##### How do you manage cluster bets on the felt?
« on: December 06, 2017, 07:23:21 PM »

Cluster bets are your number groupings on the felt like dozens, columns,  double streets, quads, streets and splits. 1-18 and 19-36 can also be included as they split the felt in two.

All players should know where each number is situated on the wheel as a combination of cluster bets will or may cover sections of the wheel that you have identified as a possible winning area within a few spins. In other words, you select one or more portions of the wheel through your own observation and calculations and translate that to cluster bets on the felt. You may have numbers in the clusters that do not fall within the target area or areas. This may be a benefit or may simply dilute  your wagers. Your opinions and suggesions will be wecomed on this issue.

Using cluster bets helps to keep wagers low. You are simply covering all numbers in the cluster at a lower chip rate. Example: R10.00 chip on a spit bet is R5.00 each on the two numbers of the split. The bigger the cluster the smaller the wager per number and that equates to smaller payouts.

Is this a good way to play cluster bets? If not, how would you advise players to translate wheel targets to cluster bets on the felt with the idea of keeping the wagers small?

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#### MrPerfect.

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##### Re: How do you manage cluster bets on the felt?
« Reply #1 on: December 06, 2017, 09:15:29 PM »
And why would you bother?

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#### MickyP

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##### Re: How do you manage cluster bets on the felt?
« Reply #2 on: December 06, 2017, 09:59:37 PM »
It could be a way  to cover areas of the wheel with a few chips on the felt. Call bets on the racetrack dont give you that option.

I know this goes against your play style but your opinion could benefit someone.

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#### MickyP

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##### Re: How do you manage cluster bets on the felt?
« Reply #3 on: December 06, 2017, 10:24:51 PM »
If you mark the numbers coming up on a picture of a wheel you will more than likely notice that a section or two get hits above average. There are hits all around the wheel, some areas have many hits while other have only a few. Transfer that infomation to cluster bets. A simple way to spread risk by using minimum chips.

#### MrPerfect.

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##### Re: How do you manage cluster bets on the felt?
« Reply #4 on: December 06, 2017, 10:26:52 PM »
If you see something worth to bet your money on it, bet high. If you got doubts, do not bet.

#### Reyth

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##### Re: How do you manage cluster bets on the felt?
« Reply #5 on: December 06, 2017, 10:28:34 PM »
If you mark the numbers coming up on a picture of a wheel you will more than likely notice that a section or two get hits above average. There are hits all around the wheel, some areas have many hits while other have only a few. Transfer that infomation to cluster bets. A simple way to spread risk by using minimum chips.

You will notice the same thing on the felt.  AP considerations aside, both the felt and the wheel are simply lists of numbers 0-36 but in a different order.

Maybe I am missing the point.  Maybe everyone that plays B&M is automatically taking AP considerations into their play and I am just slow on the uptake.  That is quite possible....?
« Last Edit: December 06, 2017, 10:30:20 PM by Reyth »

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#### MickyP

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##### Re: How do you manage cluster bets on the felt?
« Reply #6 on: December 06, 2017, 11:18:00 PM »
Reyth if you take any cluster bet on the felt the numbers will spread around the wheel. For example double street four (19, 20, 21, 22, 23 and 24). Now if you take 6 consecutive numbers from the wheel and transfer them to the felt they will also be spread out. Where these numbers are on the felt you can decide what cluster bet to cover them with; if numbers 2 and 4 appear then the quad 1, 2, 4, and 5 will be bet. Numbers 8 and 11 will be bet as a split; 19 and 21 as a single street, and so on.

The point is to identify hot areas on the wheel and cover them on the felt with cluster bets. If you identify a 5 number section on the wheel, your bets on the felt may cover 10 or even 14 numbers depending on the cluster bet selection.

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#### MrPerfect.

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##### Re: How do you manage cluster bets on the felt?
« Reply #7 on: December 06, 2017, 11:33:55 PM »
First of all it is mathematically not motivated. If you wanna bet 5 numbers then bet 5 numbers.
Sometimes you got more then one area to cover, there you could find some splits..ets, but mostly you will have no time for such " tuning" , unless you got yourself predetermined bet of multiple numbers. In this case you may try to find something there before.
Anyway, it's out of the blue qwestion. In game you got no time for it and at home prepared bet you can do it yourself, so no need anyone's help.

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#### Fyodor

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##### Re: How do you manage cluster bets on the felt?
« Reply #8 on: December 07, 2017, 12:38:32 AM »
"Cluster" bets on the felt, are, from my observations, less likely to succeed than "clusters" of numbers appearing in a sequence of outcomes on the wheel.
Have often seen groups of 12oclock (zerospiel) results or 6oclock (tiers), much more often than any street or corner repeaters.
And both of those examples are scattered all over the felt, inc first second and third doz (both) and first second and third col, (both).

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#### Reyth

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##### Re: How do you manage cluster bets on the felt?
« Reply #9 on: December 07, 2017, 12:51:11 AM »
How long of a sequence do you need to prove your statistical point?  I ask because we can run the numbers right here and I bet that we can both show similar statistics!

I will admit however that the only possible wrench in my theory would relate to AP issues...

Maybe we can run X number of spins from the permancies and X numbers from Random.org and compare them?  I would do felt and you can do wheel?

I know that my patterns form within 300 spins (usually much sooner).
« Last Edit: December 07, 2017, 12:53:57 AM by Reyth »

#### Fyodor

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##### Re: How do you manage cluster bets on the felt?
« Reply #10 on: December 07, 2017, 01:23:53 AM »
Hi Reyth, is your question to me?

#### Reyth

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##### Re: How do you manage cluster bets on the felt?
« Reply #11 on: December 07, 2017, 11:52:20 AM »
Yuppers.

#### Fyodor

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##### Re: How do you manage cluster bets on the felt?
« Reply #12 on: December 08, 2017, 01:04:21 PM »
OK Then, My session length is 162  numbers outcomes/results in length, and, in that series I expect to locate (and wager on) between 12 and 20 "cluster" targets, with odds ranging from 9to1 up to 15to1.
The method and graph I use to record results allows me to "read" the targets straight off the graph.
That also highlights the "felt" clusters as and if they appear.
The "felt" clusters that you extol are quite interesting to me, as I calculate various returns should the winnings be allowed to ride.
(Just an exercise, as I would not actually do it.)
I will stick with my wheel clusters, as I can "see" the win or loss, before it happens.
One other point, the deflector "diamonds" play a very minor role in affecting the ball trajectory, as most of the time, the ball does not contact them in the last few "decaying" revolutions.
There are a few ways to establish pattern references, but for this type of play, I overlay a sort of "mental template" on my records graph and any recurring sequence can be anticipated
My permanences are from Bad Homburg, well arranged and quite useful for dry runs.

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#### MickyP

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##### Re: How do you manage cluster bets on the felt?
« Reply #13 on: December 08, 2017, 07:19:58 PM »
This topic goes against the grain of AP, so I understand your sentiments MrPerfect.

It may sound like a "Why would you bother" question but I like the idea of translating things I see on the wheel  to the felt and from the felt to the wheel.
An example of this is the 20 number Kavouras bet. On the wheel you have:
One cluster of 6 numbers; 8, 30, 11, 36, 13, and 27.
One cluster of 5 numbers; 31, 14, 20, 1, and  33.
One cluster of 3 numbers; 0, 32 and 15
Two clusters of 2 numbers; 35, 3 and 17, 34.
Two single numbers; 18 and 2
These clusters are translated from the wheel to the felt as such:
One quad 0, 1, 2, and 3
One double street 31 to 36.
Five splits 8, 11 - 13, 14 - 15, 18 - 17, 20 and 27, 30.

The strategy was made possible by relating  wheel layout to felt layout in a way to minimise initial chip outlay. I know some love the strategy and others think it's a waste of time. Am I wasting my time by trying to understand the makeup of this successful strategy? I don't think so.

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#### Reyth

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##### Re: How do you manage cluster bets on the felt?
« Reply #14 on: December 08, 2017, 11:16:46 PM »
Ok well I am willing to try a spin series of 160 spins; most likely I will find the best bets within that time.  I don't usually choose to play as quickly or often as you do BUT I CAN and have done so with success.

If you throw down a sequence of spins, I will "run it" with my felted patterns and show where the bets are to be.

I won't cheat, I will just point out where the patterns are forming and how they are forming and just track the RNG bias as it continues, noting any changes as they form.

Then, if you want to compare it with your wheel analysis, it could be interesting?

Hahah, its funny because we both have some interest in the other's patterns!
« Last Edit: December 08, 2017, 11:20:12 PM by Reyth »