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MickyP

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Session goals and Bankroll
« on: December 04, 2017, 04:17:31 PM »
The aim of any type of roulette approach is to make a profit from play start to play stop, namely a session. If you only work in casino chips as some do then it would be the same, to see an increase/growth in your pile of chips.

This is risk vs reward and can be a telltale sign of the strength or weakness of your approach. System players would be happy with 50% of bankroll as profit where AP players would be happy doubling or quadrupling their bankroll. From this statement it's fair to assume that visual ballistics is a more profitable approach.

With most systems discussed on the forum, questions are always asked about bankroll size and stop loss limits. The response to these questions are very seldom comprehensively answered. Instead the focus remains on the working of the system. If one would dig into the financials of a system you may discover that a "working system"  is too expensive to maintain and this may be why the recommendations are to use as small a value of chip possible. A system should not require for examples sake 1000 units to ultimately make a session target of 100 units. To me this is a sign of a weak system and to honest simply playing random may be a better option.

Systems are supposed to win you money, not allow you to spend more time at the tables while you look like you know what you are doing.

Your thoughts.


 
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Jesper

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Re: Session goals and Bankroll
« Reply #1 on: December 04, 2017, 04:36:16 PM »
God bless the player knowing to win big with small LUCK and BANKROLL. The true is it is not possible more than a special lucky streak.

If we want to climb 40 units, we must be prepared to face a streak we are back ten times(sometimes).  Early stop loss, just leave the problem to the next day.

Low goal, many chips, is a better way if you want to play long. If you stake the farm in one spin is something else, you take a chance.

A lot of small winnings adds up.
 
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MickyP

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Re: Session goals and Bankroll
« Reply #2 on: December 04, 2017, 04:47:45 PM »
I agree that a lot of small winning add up but surely if you play like you have described above then you need to reevaluate your approach.

I'm not saying start with a small bankroll of say 50 units and aim for a return of say 500 units. That's playing with fire. What would be a realistic risk/reward to deem a system or approach as credible to you?
 
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Sputnik

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Re: Session goals and Bankroll
« Reply #3 on: December 04, 2017, 05:34:49 PM »


The problem many don't have the solution for is that all system at some point fail and you give all the winnings back to the casino. Bankroll is a good thing as many punters on gambling forums play with there salary money from work during weekends. Having one amount of money just for gambling is a great feeling.

For example my sportbetting service has 2000 Euro only for sportbetting.
And i have a separate bankroll for casino games.
Maybe i will start betting on horses, then i will put aside money for that.

My point is that no session or loss limit or win goal will save you from not giving all the money back.
So my suggestion is to look at how to avoid giving all the winnings back to the casino.

I have my own solution for this and i use regression when i reach a certain level of winnings.
Also use a higher base bet and use three layers of regression then if i win all levels i turn the game into a positiv game where winnings generate winnings until i reach the table limit, if that happen it would be jackpot.

I would read about the staking plan Regression Up & Pull and combine the concept with progressions.
That way you would safe guard profits and operate with casino money during a short period of time.

Cheers
 
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MickyP

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Re: Session goals and Bankroll
« Reply #4 on: December 04, 2017, 05:57:32 PM »
Thanks Sputnik, a nice reply.

By your observation every system fails through time so this could be reduced to the conclusion that system play is not advisable as it will eventually loose. In a perfect roulette world of continuous play this would possibly be true.

Your money management, setting funds aside to play roulette is wise as no matter how strongly you feel about your approach, you still anticipate loosing. Growing profits from roulette and playing with that is also wise but how do you balance risk and reward to get into that position?

We all have to start somewhere. Is a strong thoroughly tested system with an average bankroll not enough to get you to the point where you play with your profits only?
 

Jesper

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Re: Session goals and Bankroll
« Reply #5 on: December 04, 2017, 06:02:33 PM »
Long time winning is a large bankroll (in units). Like the play here won rather safe 5 units, but risking more.
That is the game, we could put all on a number or buy a lotto ticket, get rich, but that is the odds.

Roulette is far better, if we want a million from small money, parlay three  or more times a straight up. Sounds silly, but still better than buy a lotto ticket.
 
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MrPerfect.

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Re: Session goals and Bankroll
« Reply #6 on: December 04, 2017, 06:05:51 PM »
This is all ... how to say it polite? ?? Sorry, do not find other word... so please forgive me for what you will read here...
    IT'S ALL BULL s***T! !!   The only way to not blow off your winnings back to casino is to control what is happening in the game. ONLY WAY. Who tells othervise is simply idiot!!!
    Gambler who lost control is looser, that's why casinos profit. They got super discepline,  it's almost military organisation. You are egainst military organisation who has intent to kill your money. That's why they exist and it's exactly what they do, to you or to anyone who is weak.
Weakling is their food, their butter on the top of the bread.
    Player who is really player is a warior. He chose the field for a battle where he can win. Warior win before the fight, looser loose before the fight. Nothing will change this formulae. It's a law of life.
   These who rely on bankroll to win already lost. Situation is really not advantage for a player, mathematically garanted , it's not even personal , anyone who enters this game is expected to loose. In their mind you are a looser just because you made a " buy in" into the game, your fate is doom. 
   Any game is a model of life, it's a food chain, what you wanna be there? Food? Or you gonna fight for your life? Every spin is reality, it's right now . Every spin matters.  Bankroll.., don't make me laugh,  you'v better find a real weapon instead of extra litre of your own blood for suckers to suck. That's not a strategy at all.
 

MrPerfect.

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Re: Session goals and Bankroll
« Reply #7 on: December 04, 2017, 06:20:24 PM »
So... what to do with a bankroll? ?,
    Bankroll is a money that you need in order to succeed.  You already studied your playing opportunity,  you set up some goal, target..  ets.
  You determined where and when and what is going on when game is total sh'''---t. So you found a way to avoid this "total. ...".
   Later on you look to your data and determine what money you need to fight this situation when it's not " total. ..". Remember " total ..." is to avoid.
   That is session bank. Now you go back to your data and determine how many sessions you are likely to loose even if you are avoiding " total.."...
   THAT'S IS YOUR BANKROLL REQUIREMENT FOR THIS OPPORTUNITY.
    That's all about it.
 
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Jesper

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Re: Session goals and Bankroll
« Reply #8 on: December 04, 2017, 06:20:55 PM »
Mr  Perfect
Acoustic diarrhea in written form, from those who are not winners but live by wordbpoop courses, books or other pseudu.
Try to explain without vague statement and bad rhetoric manner.
 

MrPerfect.

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Re: Session goals and Bankroll
« Reply #9 on: December 04, 2017, 06:40:34 PM »
Jesper, what all here speak about is what really going on... unfortunately no one does it in reality.
  In simple terms..  you have a worst case scenario - your aproach doesn't work at all..  loosing potential is unlimited.  As a player it's your personal responsibility to stop playing all together when it happens, if you not. .. well...
      So you determined and isolated these " doom days" by the factors that provoke them. .
    Now you go back to your data and look how to profit on " good days". Money you need with your aproach ( as little as you can) it's your session bankroll requirements.  It's done to protect you from your own mistakes.
     By doing this you cut at least at 50% your loosing sessions out..  as practice show, that's where folks are loosing the most. By avoiding losses you will automaticall become a winner , that's why a " stop loss". It's not about your " how much money did you got" , but " how proficient you are as a player"..   more of self control then game control actually.
    Now, after determining " stop loss" , you are going to determine " actual bankroll requirements ".... for that you look to your data and determine what you need to take with you in casino.
   Does it makes sense? 
       I'm really tired to read " humster oppinions".   Sometimes it provoking rage in my comments. ... lm trying hard to be as not personal as l can.
             Play roulette is a business,  as any business,  it has to be calculated on actual data, not on whatever someone thinks about it.
 
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MickyP

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Re: Session goals and Bankroll
« Reply #10 on: December 04, 2017, 06:42:41 PM »
I rather enjoyed MrPerfect's response. It should have been written in upper case letters LIKE THIS. But what he has to say holds ground to a point. Unfortunately we are not all at the level of play he is at. Some of us need to consider our bankroll as a relevant part of our game plan.
 

MickyP

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Re: Session goals and Bankroll
« Reply #11 on: December 04, 2017, 06:50:44 PM »
As I stated MrPerfect's response holds ground.

I asked a simple question to kick this discussion off regarding systems that require massive bankrolls. I understand the anger expressed here but it is a grey area that needs clarity.
 

Sputnik

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Re: Session goals and Bankroll
« Reply #12 on: December 04, 2017, 06:52:27 PM »


 You will lose your bankroll if you don't know how to gamble using riskmanagement.

 Good Luck

 
 
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mr j

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Re: Session goals and Bankroll
« Reply #13 on: December 04, 2017, 07:54:38 PM »
Playing straight ups only, no progression. STOP for the day >>

BR needed >> x4 of a gross win. Example, you are using $10 units. ($350)...$1,400 BR needed.

Also stop for the day if you get to x1.5 of a net hit which also includes tipping. Example, you are using $10 units ($350)....When you reach $525, done for the day. Very easy, not rocket science.

Ken
 
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MrPerfect.

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Re: Session goals and Bankroll
« Reply #14 on: December 04, 2017, 08:11:06 PM »
 For most situations  bankroll is 400 units. It's maximum l would ever consider to invest into the game. Situations that require higher bankroll is simply waste of time and effort.
   80 units for vb and 200 for bias. 50 units for bias by vb. If you can not do it with stated amount,  you doing something wrong.... like, big time wrong. Either situation is not understood or not studied at all.
   How many times you guys plan to miss anyway??? What, triggers do not work? Better get yourself a method that pay back. No point to play something you do not understand either.
 
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