Author Topic: How to Get The Bank to Play Your Game  (Read 2451 times)

BlueAngel

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Re: How to Get The Bank to Play Your Game
« Reply #15 on: March 31, 2016, 09:21:33 PM »
If you have a winning system, then why must you hit and run?  Why wouldn't you want to stay and play for as long as possible?

On this I agree completely. Whether you have a winning system or a tracking software that does the same thing ,applying a strategy of 'hit & run' is more about psychology than the producing profitability of said system or TS.

If your system or TS platform has computational flaws, taking said hit & run and reiterating the former method of 'nibbling small stakes'  from the casino, be it a hundred times or even putting it on an infinite curve, will with good certainty produce a loser on the long run.

I agree, but didn't you suggest otherwise on your ''hexagon blog''??!
 

BlueAngel

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Re: How to Get The Bank to Play Your Game
« Reply #16 on: March 31, 2016, 09:25:24 PM »
If you have a winning system, then why must you hit and run?  Why wouldn't you want to stay and play for as long as possible?


Stress is known as "fight or flight".
Opposed to "Stay and Play" :)

The banks want you to transcend Time - or to forget Time.
No clock is in sight.
They really do want you to stay as long as possible.
You might be smitten by greed, fatique,  noise, lights etc.
Time is still essential.

Here is another popular fallacy from a gambler who suggests bets like ''Tic Tac Toe''!
OMG, what else are we going to see and hear?! :o
 

BlueAngel

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Re: How to Get The Bank to Play Your Game
« Reply #17 on: March 31, 2016, 09:30:16 PM »

You guys tell us there is no difference  between Staying and Playing and Hit and Run.
 As Dobbelsteen has told you we use Hit and Run because , due to OUR experience we have found it more profitable than Staying and Playing.
You also tell us that if we stay then the longer we stay and play the more certain that we are to lose both our bankroll and any profits we have made .
By leaving a table when we have a profit that profit is then put away and not used again in that session . Clearly our  bankroll is not at the same risk as is those who Stay and Play. Also ,  our put-aside profits can  add up to more than  our initial bankroll  and even if the infamous long Run hits us we still have a profit while the bankroll of our Stay and Play friends is totally lost - including any profits made.

REALITY  beats  HYPOTHESES  !

That's your version of ''reality'', not everyone's reality!
 

scepticus

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Re: How to Get The Bank to Play Your Game
« Reply #18 on: March 31, 2016, 11:38:18 PM »
Oh OK, I get it.  replacing the bankroll with winnings?
Replacing the bankroll after a loss but increasing the bankroll when winning- or spending some of it  when we think we have reached the optimal betting bank. I suppose what we do is take advantage of variance when it is in our favour.
Will critics of Hit and Run please explain  their reasoning for their  objections rather than just say that it doesn't work or that it is due to psychology. I think I have explained MY view so why can't you guys explain YOUR view .
I think mine is a reasonable explanation.
 

scepticus

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Re: How to Get The Bank to Play Your Game
« Reply #19 on: March 31, 2016, 11:45:25 PM »
Correct. Stay and play because hit and run is useless.

I stay and play in 3 stage rounds of up to 500 spins total. I expose a small portion of the bank roll for about 350-400 spins, then expose a bit more bankroll for about 100-180 spins, then expose the whole bankroll for about 20-40 spins.
If after the first 2 stages I have lost money then I do not proceed to stage 3 and expose the whole bankroll. I simply start again from stage 1.
Sometimes I will play only the first 2 stages for several or more sessions because I keep losing, but the moment my system is on a winning stretch and shows profit for the first 2 stages (about 450-480 spins) I will push on and play large for a relatively brief period to try and capitalize on the upward momentum.

Yes, sometimes I lose the whole bankroll in 20-40 spins too.

But this is all about creating an edge with a level selection (which is the best we can hope for) and making my bank work for me.

Trilo
Can you explain your method in more detail.
What is your total bankroll for this ?
How much of it for your bankroll do  you use for your first stage ?
How many spins do you actually bet in your 500 spins ?
500 spins takes about 5x 3hours = 15 hours in a Bricks and Mortar ( B&M) casino .Do you really bet for all that time ?
What do you mean by level selection ?
Thanks
 

scepticus

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Re: How to Get The Bank to Play Your Game
« Reply #20 on: March 31, 2016, 11:48:26 PM »

You guys tell us there is no difference  between Staying and Playing and Hit and Run.
 As Dobbelsteen has told you we use Hit and Run because , due to OUR experience we have found it more profitable than Staying and Playing.
You also tell us that if we stay then the longer we stay and play the more certain that we are to lose both our bankroll and any profits we have made .
By leaving a table when we have a profit that profit is then put away and not used again in that session . Clearly our  bankroll is not at the same risk as is those who Stay and Play. Also ,  our put-aside profits can  add up to more than  our initial bankroll  and even if the infamous long Run hits us we still have a profit while the bankroll of our Stay and Play friends is totally lost - including any profits made.

REALITY  beats  HYPOTHESES  !

That's your version of ''reality'', not everyone's reality!

Well BA I did say that it was MY reality . MY reality is profitable  so I guess you mean that not everyone's reality is not profitable .
 

BlueAngel

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Re: How to Get The Bank to Play Your Game
« Reply #21 on: April 01, 2016, 12:44:23 AM »


Quote
1.) Prevent your opponent(the bank)  from making you play his game, the style of play he prefers.

2.) Prevent yourself from playing his game.

3.) Prevent him from preventing your making him play your game.

4.) Make him play your game.

You are repeating 4 times the same thing in different words, that's not so clever.

Quote
So how do we prevent the bank from making us play his game?

If casinos wanted their clients to bet in specific way or to prevent them betting in a particular way, there would be already such rule in place.
Or do you mean to bet opposite from what's happening?
Why don't you say casino instead of bank?
We are not talking about the bank of America neither a bank of a river.

Quote
Does that mean we use a positive progression instead of a negative progression because a negative progression chases our previous losses and that is what the bank wants?

Who told you that? How did you arrive to that conclusion?
Did you discussed with a casino owner or a casino's staff and told you that we want gamblers to use negative progressions??
Are positive progressions better? Why?
Do you think that a win after a win is more possible than a win after a loss?
Do wins and loses occur in a specific order?

Quote
Do we play the outside instead of the inside bets because the odds are much better for us on the outside and the inside benefits the house? 

Who told you that?
To win more times because you are betting ''outside'' sections doesn't make ├Żou winner, according your reasoning is even better to bet on 30 numbers with High and 1st dozen for example, but of course couldn't be farer from the truth.
It's the ratio between wins and loses in regards with the payout of your selection which could make you winner.

Quote
These were some of the thoughts and ideas I was pondering this afternoon. I would be interested to hear your prospective on this.

Keep on thinking...!
 

BlueAngel

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Re: How to Get The Bank to Play Your Game
« Reply #22 on: April 01, 2016, 12:57:29 AM »

Quote
Well BA I did say that it was MY reality . MY reality is profitable  so I guess you mean that not everyone's reality is not profitable .

Well, not all realities are the same, there are many realities living in ''parallel worlds'' and all of them are parts of one big, unified reality

What I understand is that every single individual across all forums around the web believes that gambling could be profitable with one way or the other (including illegal activities).
The arguments is the effect of different approaches, but if someone didn't believe that some form of gambling could be profitable then why to bother at all?!

Since you agree that we argue because of different approaches, how could anyone claim that every method is the same?!
Are all people the same? Is what they are doing the same?
Are their knowledge and experience the same?
Of course not, so how each and every single individual should expect the same results??!

Everyone can believe what he wants and be responsible for his doings, you can never blame someone on a forum and after you fail to meet expectations to use the excuse ''he told me to do so''!
He told you? So what?!
If I was telling you that you should wear your clothes inside out for good luck, should you've listened me??
 

scepticus

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Re: How to Get The Bank to Play Your Game
« Reply #23 on: April 01, 2016, 01:41:26 AM »

Quote
Well BA I did say that it was MY reality . MY reality is profitable  so I guess you mean that not everyone's reality is not profitable .

Well, not all realities are the same, there are many realities living in ''parallel worlds'' and all of them are parts of one big, unified reality

What I understand is that every single individual across all forums around the web believes that gambling could be profitable with one way or the other (including illegal activities).
The arguments is the effect of different approaches, but if someone didn't believe that some form of gambling could be profitable then why to bother at all?!

Since you agree that we argue because of different approaches, how could anyone claim that every method is the same?!
Are all people the same? Is what they are doing the same?
Are their knowledge and experience the same?
Of course not, so how each and every single individual should expect the same results??!

Everyone can believe what he wants and be responsible for his doings, you can never blame someone on a forum and after you fail to meet expectations to use the excuse ''he told me to do so''!
He told you? So what?!
If I was telling you that you should wear your clothes inside out for good luck, should you've listened me??

you seem to be unaware that my " Reality beats Hypotheses " remark was in answer to various  members- including yourself - that claimed that our Hit and Run was nonsense and now you say that everyone can claim what he wants .
So why did you agree that Hit and Run was psychological and without merit ?
If you think that everyone is entitled to his opinion why do you criticise others  when they express their opinion ?
If Hit and Run doesn''t work why  do those of us who use it profit from it ?
That it works IS the Reality !
 

BlueAngel

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Re: How to Get The Bank to Play Your Game
« Reply #24 on: April 01, 2016, 02:09:44 AM »
Quote
you seem to be unaware that my " Reality beats Hypotheses "

According to whom?

Should we receive your words as the reality?

Quote
So why did you agree that Hit and Run was psychological and without merit ?

Because this is what I believe or should I say want you want to hear?

Quote
If you think that everyone is entitled to his opinion why do you criticise others  when they express their opinion ?

Now look who's talking!

Quote
If Hit and Run doesn''t work why  do those of us who use it profit from it ?

Every time I'm going at the casino I'm witnessing individuals who win, does it mean that they posses a super hit n run strategy?

Does every time someone wins mean that he's using a winning method?

I think not, hit & run is the thieves mentality, good luck with that because you'll need it!
 

rotaman

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Re: How to Get The Bank to Play Your Game
« Reply #25 on: April 01, 2016, 09:43:50 AM »
By leaving a table when we have a profit that profit is then put away and not used again in that session . Clearly our  bankroll is not at the same risk as is those who Stay and Play. Also ,  our put-aside profits can  add up to more than  our initial bankroll  and even if the infamous long Run hits us we still have a profit while the bankroll of our Stay and Play friends is totally lost - including any profits made.

REALITY  beats  HYPOTHESES  !

What difference does it make whether you leave after making 1 unit profit or 10 units? If you hit and run after 1 unit profit it takes you 10 sessions to make as much as the guy who has a target of 10 units. What you say sounds reasonable but if you actually think about it carefully you will see there's no advantage. All the hit and run guy is doing is just splitting up his playing time into shorter sessions. And like I said in the other post, only if you can predict the future will hit and run be of any benefit. If you are counting cards at blackjack hit and run would actually work because you would only start betting when the count was advantageous and stop when it wasn't, but the situation in roulette is quite different.
 

ernroo1

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Re: How to Get The Bank to Play Your Game
« Reply #26 on: April 01, 2016, 10:02:41 AM »
Hit and run? Seriously is that the best this forum can do? I dont think so.
 

scepticus

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Re: How to Get The Bank to Play Your Game
« Reply #27 on: April 01, 2016, 10:36:22 AM »
oh ! Guys ! Come on ! Come on !
I explained  why I play Hit and Run but that is allied to my Bet  Selection so I am  not  using Hit and Run by itself as you guys seem to think and it is not based on psychology LOL . Small profits add up so don't sneer at them  .
ALL of us play in THE SHORT TERM so, yes, we play shorter terms than you but you also have to choose WHAT to bet- and when , don't you ? What we are saying is that we PROFIT with what we do so just what is your criticism worth when compared to our profit ?   
Our profit is the REALITY !
Your criticism is the HYPOTHESIS  based on your misunderstanding of Hit and Run .

 

Reyth

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Re: How to Get The Bank to Play Your Game
« Reply #28 on: April 01, 2016, 11:32:19 AM »
Correct. Stay and play because hit and run is useless.

I stay and play in 3 stage rounds of up to 500 spins total. I expose a small portion of the bank roll for about 350-400 spins, then expose a bit more bankroll for about 100-180 spins, then expose the whole bankroll for about 20-40 spins.
If after the first 2 stages I have lost money then I do not proceed to stage 3 and expose the whole bankroll. I simply start again from stage 1.
Sometimes I will play only the first 2 stages for several or more sessions because I keep losing, but the moment my system is on a winning stretch and shows profit for the first 2 stages (about 450-480 spins) I will push on and play large for a relatively brief period to try and capitalize on the upward momentum.

Yes, sometimes I lose the whole bankroll in 20-40 spins too.

But this is all about creating an edge with a level selection (which is the best we can hope for) and making my bank work for me.

Ya kind of like a Paroli approach...
 

rotaman

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Re: How to Get The Bank to Play Your Game
« Reply #29 on: April 01, 2016, 11:42:44 AM »
oh ! Guys ! Come on ! Come on !
I explained  why I play Hit and Run but that is allied to my Bet  Selection so I am  not  using Hit and Run by itself as you guys seem to think and it is not based on psychology LOL . Small profits add up so don't sneer at them  .
ALL of us play in THE SHORT TERM so, yes, we play shorter terms than you but you also have to choose WHAT to bet- and when , don't you ? What we are saying is that we PROFIT with what we do so just what is your criticism worth when compared to our profit ?   
Our profit is the REALITY !
Your criticism is the HYPOTHESIS  based on your misunderstanding of Hit and Run .

scepticus anyone can make a claim that they profit but it doesn't really count for much by itself. There are already some doing that on this forum and it just leads to petty and pointless bickering.  Maybe I'm misunderstanding what you mean by hit and run but let me put this question to you-

If two players are using the exact same system is it your contention that the one using hit and run will do better than the one who isn't?

If your position is that hit and run is kind of built into the system itself then I'll agree with you, but that's not what I understand by hit and run. When most players talk about hit and run they mean just a kind of add-on to any system, which, according to them, gives them better results than if they stay at the tables for longer, regardless of the system they're using.