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Author Topic: NEW SYSTEM: SINGLE DOZEN  (Read 35421 times)

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TERMINATOR

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Re: NEW SYSTEM: SINGLE DOZEN
« Reply #255 on: March 31, 2017, 05:22:10 AM »
@ Palestis.

Hey there. I will start with the first of 2 triggers you did in Game #3.

TRIGGER #1:

You used the first 3 spins of this game (6-21-1) for the first trigger:

6
21
1

30
14

And you won with this trigger with the #14.

However, shouldn’t you have skipped the first 6 spins, like you’ve been doing in the other games you replayed for me?

When I asked you to look at one of my earlier games (Game #8, I believe), I used the first 3 spins as my first trigger also. But when you posted your play of this same game, you SKIPPED the first trigger. You explained to me that you did not know the spins that came before the first 3 spins, so you delayed the first trigger for a while before choosing the first trigger.

And in another recent game you replayed, my game #18-b, you waited for 6 spins to pass. Then, you chose spin #7-9 as your first trigger.

So, I played our current Game #3 in the way that you have been playing these games, to be consistent. So I skipped the first 6 spins. Can we agree to start this Game #3 by skipping the first 6 spins, like you have been doing with my other losses?

TRIGGER #2

I have a question as to why you picked this trigger the way you played it.

The spins immediately following the above 5 spins are:

19 M
19 M
17 M


Then you used this as a trigger:

12 L
12 L
16 M


According to your recent post, we CANNOT play this trigger and must skip it, because the Target Dozen (16 M) is the same as the dominant Dozen streak that preceded it (MMM). (At least this is how I understood what you said, and this is how I played this entire game).

So, even though this trigger won for you, again, weren't we supposed to skip this trigger as well? Not only for this reason, but because if we skipped the first 6 spins of this game, this trigger would have been skipped as well.

I explain in my Excel Game #3 where my first trigger was (Excel spin #18, which was 22 M), and the reason WHY. HOWEVER, if I may make a suggestion, how about we play this game starting from the START of what caused me to climb to the 10th level? This will save a lot of time.

The TRIGGER which begins this bizarre climb starts at spin Excel Spin #91 (#87 for real) You can double check how I got to this point in the Excedl document, just to make sure we are on the same page.

For clarification, the spins start here, as follows (spin #91 in Excel):

11 L
26 H
31 H
(This is the trigger - LHH)
36 H (bet for L)
26 H (bet for L)
16 M (stop betting, because the first 2 bets are the same as the dominant dozen in the trigger)

etc.

And the above is starting at the first level (1-1-2). It ended up at the 10th level for me (528-528-.
1056), even though I never had to make a 1056 bet, only a 528 unit bet.

I’d like to see how you play this game starting from here, Palestis. Since your first 2 triggers are different than what they should be, the rest of this Game #3 is thrown off by the time you come to this point in the game.

So, if we can focus starting at this point in the game, I could see how you played this sequence  and compare it to my play, to see where the confusion is.

Thanks Palestis!
« Last Edit: March 31, 2017, 05:49:33 AM by TERMINATOR »
 
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Re: NEW SYSTEM: SINGLE DOZEN
« Reply #256 on: March 31, 2017, 05:29:16 AM »
Thank you jekhb76. I very much appreciate all the help I can get.

Like I said, the same game I played where I always played the SECOND trigger after a streak was FINE. I just don't understand how playing the FIRST trigger instead could have such drastic results from the other game.

I'm thinking I misinterpreted one of Palestis's posts again. At least, I HOPE this is the reason. And I just played it wrong.  ::)
« Last Edit: March 31, 2017, 05:51:21 AM by TERMINATOR »
 
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jekhb76

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Re: NEW SYSTEM: SINGLE DOZEN
« Reply #257 on: March 31, 2017, 07:45:15 AM »
@terminator,

hey man, i've just replayed your session, but i have to say, the most spin loss is 7, that's 2 back to back losses. everything else gives me a win before spin 7. it is maybe the way i play palestis version, but i never had a single loss past spin 10 in more then 3 weeks now! like i said before. i included your session below again. these are my betting. take a look. i ignore some flags, but that's just the way i play it. and you know what they say, never change a winning team :)  as you can see i don't believe in virtual losses. when i arive at a table i must be able to play right away. what came before my betting is irelivant.
this may not be true all the way regarding palestis version, but i think i have also some say in this. almost 3 weeks in and not a single lost session. so i must do something right :)

L   
M   Bet
L   
H   
M   Win
---------------
M   
M   
M   
L   
L   
M   Bet
L   
H   
M   Win
-------------------
L   Bet
M   
M   
H   
0
H   
L   Win
--------------------
L   
H   Bet
L   
H   Win
------------------
H   Bet
M   
M   
L   
M   
M   
M   
L   
H   Win
------------------
L   
L   
M   Bet
M   Win
------------------
L   
L   
M   Bet
H   
H   
H   
H   
H   
M   Win
--------------------
L   Bet
H   
H   
M   
L   Win
------------------
H   
M   
L   Bet
M   
L   Win
------------------
H   
H   
H   
M   Bet
H   
M   Win
------------------
H   
H   
H   
H   
M   Bet
M   Win
----------------------
M   
M   
L   Bet
H   
M   
M   
H   
H   
H   
L   Win
------------------
M   
H   Bet
M   
M   
M   
L   
H   Win
-----------------
L   Bet
H   
H   
H   
H   
M   
L   Win
-----------------
L   
L   
H   Bet
H   Win
-----------------
M   
H   Bet
M   
M   
M   
M   
H   Win
-------------------
H   Bet
M   
M   
L   
M   
L   
H   Win
--------------------
M   Bet
L   
L   
H   
H   
H   
M   Win
--------------------
M   
L   Bet
M   
H   
M   
L   Win
-----------------
L   
M   
H   Bet
M   
H   Win
-----------------
M   
L   Bet
H   
H   
H   
H   
L   Win
-----------------
H   
M   
L   Bet
M   
M   
H   
M   
M   
H   
M   
L   Win
---------------
M   
L   Bet
H   
H   
H   
L   Win
---------------
H   
M   
L   Bet
M   
H   
M   
M   
L   Win
----------------
H   
L   
M   Bet
L   
H   
H   
L   
M   Win
----------------
H   
L   Bet
H   
L   Win
---------------
H   Bet
M   
M   
H   Win
------------
L   
M   
H   Bet

M   
H   Win
--------------
L   
L   
M   Bet
H   
H   
M   Win
-----------------
M   
L   Bet
M   
L   Win
-----------------
M   
L   Bet
M   
M   
H   
L   Win
----------------
« Last Edit: March 31, 2017, 07:59:34 AM by jekhb76 »
 
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Bayes

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Re: NEW SYSTEM: SINGLE DOZEN
« Reply #258 on: March 31, 2017, 08:18:15 AM »
Guys, unless we're all on the same page with regard to the system rules then there are always going to be sequences which are disastrous for one way of playing but work out great for another. It's no use saying after the fact that "I would have played this or that way", same for reverse engineering.
 
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Harryj

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Re: NEW SYSTEM: SINGLE DOZEN
« Reply #259 on: March 31, 2017, 09:27:53 AM »
Sorry about the delay. I was a little under the weather and couldn't face the effort of touch screen typing. I don't even lime a laptop. Give me a nice big keyboard with chunky mechanical keys.

       First let's look at the DS.  I posted my philosophy, but it seems you want more. If we choose 1high & 1 low DS in each pair, that seems to give the best results on the European wheel. We have 9 possible pairs.
 14..15..16..
 24..25..26..
 34..35..36.
  Obviously we need to cover the whole wheel(except zero), so each DS can only be used once. Ideally the pair we select should be fairly evenly, but, randomly spaced about the wheel. So that no matter where the ball lands it is never far away from our choice. That gives us the best chance of a hit in a random game.
       The pattern I have found best is at least 1 sector of 3 or 4 pockets, with a minimum of isolated pockets.Let's look at the obvious choice chosen by Bayes.
DS 1,4..19.4.21.2./6./23./5.24./1.20./22./3.
DS 2,5.. 25./27./11.30.8./10./9./29.7.28.12./26.
DS 3,6.. 32.15./17.34./13.36./16.33./14.3./18./35.
       As can be seen not perfect but close. Wherevever the ball lands it won't be far from the chosen dozen. Kav you can see there are a couple of sectors of 3 & 4 pockets there. .we can use this to demo actual play.
 
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dobbelsteen

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Re: NEW SYSTEM: SINGLE DOZEN
« Reply #260 on: March 31, 2017, 09:45:28 AM »

 I have tried to past my Excel program. That is impossible. This reply is limited to 20000 characters and an Excel program exceed very fast this limit.
 Here a small image of the start of the program.
I am willing to send the program by email.

 
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Harryj

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Re: NEW SYSTEM: SINGLE DOZEN
« Reply #261 on: March 31, 2017, 10:48:07 AM »
As Bayes has just pointed out. If the tabl3 is f8ghting back and your permanence is going o hell. There is no reason why you should go with it !! Take a break, wait for things to cool down. Th casino will still be there tomorrow.

       Now let's look at progressions. The biggest mistake is to assume the progression is to overpower the casino, and for e a win.WRONG!! the progression is to help you to reduce losses. The object is NOT TO LOSE!! if you can achieve that you are a winner !
    If you can't win in a few spins. Pick another target. Why chase a rainbow that doesn't have a crock of gold but just a driedup carrot. No offence Terminator, but having spent several thousand units working your way up to a bet of 558. How much profit were you g9ing to make ?? I'll ask a similar question of jekb76. Having reached a high and having gone back a few levels a few times before you clear tbe line. What is your profit on the series ? Have you considered just accepting a small loss, and restarting? Chances are that at the end of the day you will be in the same place. Having taken far less risk, with a smaller B/R..

      Having said that, let's get down to the nitty gritty. My posted progression looks quite strong. In fact it is only 9 units, as the base bet is 6u not 1u. So it compares with 1.1.2.2.3./9. I feel that the extra 2 bets gives me 2 levels of safety. I find that I get many fewer 2x back to back losses and 3 is really rare. For intermittent play,  where each trigger is isolated, 3 step level is best. If you are following the flow, and back counting. The 5. Step level seems to work better.
 
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Bayes

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Re: NEW SYSTEM: SINGLE DOZEN
« Reply #262 on: March 31, 2017, 11:58:05 AM »
Harry, I agree that progressions should be used to help you not lose. That's why I think it's madness to use an aggressive progression like 1,1,2 2,2,4 4,4,8... up to 100 units and beyond. My absolute max stake would be no more than 20 units.

If you find you have to exceed this, it just tells you that your bet selection isn't working.
 
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Reyth

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Re: NEW SYSTEM: SINGLE DOZEN
« Reply #263 on: March 31, 2017, 01:50:46 PM »
I base my progressions on % chances of hitting.  I agree that there is no need to raise so massively for a sliver of a single percent increase in chances to hit.
 
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Re: NEW SYSTEM: SINGLE DOZEN
« Reply #264 on: March 31, 2017, 02:40:02 PM »
# jekhb76

Thank you for playing this game through. I appreciate that, but I agree with Bayes. We need to agree and be consistent with the rules. I have played this game with another method and won also, but the point of me showing this is to test Palestis's System of playing the first trigger.

To he honest, I do not understand your way of playing yet. It is confusing to me. It is too different from the way Palestis is showing us. I am just focusing on Palestis's method as he reveals in this thread.

I will be happy to look at your version at a later time, though.
 
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Harryj

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Re: NEW SYSTEM: SINGLE DOZEN
« Reply #265 on: March 31, 2017, 03:14:32 PM »
Bayes I firmly agree.
    I now inte d to play through Terminator's permanence from hell.1st using standard dozens. Then DS”dozens" using the same 14,25,36. Pairing you used in your tracker.

1
2
1 target d2
3
2w.  +1. Last 3 numbers 1,3,2. No bet.
2
2
2 nb
1
1
2 target 2
1
3
2w +2. nb all 3 dozens showing.
1
2
2 t1
3
0
3
1w +0 restart count from 0
1t3
3w + 2.  t3
1
3w  +1.  t1
3
2
2
1w. +0. T1
2
2
2
1w.  +0. t1wn2 eg
3
1 w.  +1  t3
1
2
2
1
1L -9. t2.     Win to date +7 = -2,
 The basic outline should now be understandable I intend skipping over the numbers to speed things up.

 t2 w in 1 +2 overall total 0.
t2 w n 2. +1
t3 w n 1. +2
t2 w n 3  +2
t2 w n 4. +0
t2 w n 3. +2
Nb
1
2
1
G
T2 w n 4  +0
T2 w n 2  +1
T3 w n 1. +2
T2 w n 4. +0
T2 w n 1. +2
T3 w n 4  +0
Nb223
T3 w n 1. +2
T2 w n 3. +2
Nb 322
T3 w n 3  +2
Nb133
T1 w n 4. +0
Nb113
T3 w n 1. +2
T1L. +20-9=11
Nb233
T2 w n 1. +2
T2 w n 1. +2
T3 w n 4. +0
Nb211
T2 w n 4. +0
T2 w n 1. +2
T3 w n 3. +2
Nb211
T2 w n 1. +2
T2 w n 2  +1
T3 w n 1. +2
T2 w n 1. +2
T3 w n 2  +1
Nb333
Nb132
Nb122 This long string of Nb is a red flag. We have won a further 16 units to add to the 11 = +27. A good time to head for home. Ourgreastest drawdown is -2. Against a 9 unit bank. However I winll play on. It will need 3 quick losses to break me now.
122
T1 L   -9 27-9=18
T3 w n 4. +0
Nb331
T1 w n 3  +2
Nb232
T2 w n 3. +2
Nb121
T2 w n 4  +0
Nb313
T1 w n 1  +2
T3 w n 1  +2
T1 w n 4. +0
Nb230231 restart from zero.
Nb123
Nb322
T3 L   -9.  18+8-9=17
T2 w n 1. +2
T1 w n 3. +2.  17+4=21 units.

      The flow after that long string of Nb clearly never really recovered.
« Last Edit: March 31, 2017, 04:37:45 PM by Harryj »
 
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Re: NEW SYSTEM: SINGLE DOZEN
« Reply #266 on: March 31, 2017, 03:28:24 PM »
@ HarryJ

Glad you’re feeling better.

I’m going to apologize in advance. I have autism and maybe this is preventing me from understanding some of the things you are saying, Harry. I’m trying to understand what you said in Reply #259, but it was Greek to me. Maybe you can point me to an earlier post if you already explained these things there? So you don’t have to repeat yourself here. Thanks.

When you say “DS”, do you mean “Double Street?” For example, the numbers 1-6 is one DS on the felt?

Quote
If we choose 1high & 1 low DS in each pair,

I lost you. In each pair of what?

Quote
We have 9 possible pairs.
 14..15..16..
 24..25..26..
 34..35..36.

I don’t understand what you mean by 9 possible pairs.

Quote
The pattern I have found best is at least 1 sector of 3 or 4 pockets, with a minimum of isolated pockets.Let's look at the obvious choice chosen by Bayes.
DS 1,4..19.4.21.2./6./23./5.24./1.20./22./3.
DS 2,5.. 25./27./11.30.8./10./9./29.7.28.12./26.
DS 3,6.. 32.15./17.34./13.36./16.33./14.3./18./35.

Did I miss something in this thread? I can’t follow how the above are Double Streets. Sorry.

I reread the posts that Bayes and You posted, when Bayes said, in REPLY #96:

Quote
If we number the DS from 1-6 the possibilities are 12 (leaving aside the standard dozens (1,2), (3,4), (5,6)) :

(1,3), (1,4), (1,5), (1,6)
(2,3), (2,4), (2,5), (2,6)
(3,5), (3,6)
(4,5), (4,6)

I did NOT understand it before, but I think I understand these just now, as I placed it in my reply here. Correct me if I’m wrong but taking the first number (1,3):

Does #1 above refers to DS #1-6 on the felt?
Does #3 above refer to #7-12 on the felt?

And Harry, when you  said, in post #108:

Quote
I prefercto combine DS 1,2,3. with DS 3,4,5.In this way each dozen with include 6 R&B. O&E. H&L.

Would DS 5 be defined as #25-30 (being the 5th Double Street on the felt)? I hope I’m following you correctly?

Quote
       Now let's look at progressions. The biggest mistake is to assume the progression is to overpower the casino, and for e a win.WRONG!! the progression is to help you to reduce losses. The object is NOT TO LOSE!! if you can achieve that you are a winner !

Yes, I agree. But Palestis has said that by following his method and Red Flags, we will never reach certain levels (once in a lifetime event). Or that reaching certain levels, like level 4, is rare. But I am finding that I am reaching these levels quite often in my testing, by following his methods as I understand them.

So, I figured I must be doing something wrong, or I am misunderstanding something .

Quote
    If you can't win in a few spins. Pick another target. Why chase a rainbow that doesn't have a crock of gold but just a driedup carrot. No offence Terminator, but having spent several thousand units working your way up to a bet of 558. How much profit were you g9ing to make ??

I would not have played like this in a real game, Harry. I stated that I ignored my stop -loss for that 1 game, to test how far up the progression it would go, since I was under the impression that I could not lose that many times in a row, if using Palestis’s method and following his red flags.

Actually, for that particular game, I won 631 units in 200 spins, because of how high the level 10 bets were. But, like I said, I would never do this in live play, and would have stopped long before that point normally, but I was testing how far up it would go if I followed Palestis’s advice.

Quote
Having said that, let's get down to the nitty gritty. My posted progression looks quite strong. In fact it is only 9 units, as the base bet is 6u not 1u. So it compares with 1.1.2.2.3./9.

Harry, I went back through all 18 pages of this thread, and could not find the progression you are talking about, 1-1-2-2-3. The only progression I can find that you posted is...are you referring to your Post #195 when you said:

(1)3...3....6....6....18....12
(2)4...4....8...14...24....10
(3)5...5...10..24...30.....6
(4)6...6...12..36...36.....0
(5) 9...9..18..54...54.....0 or (5)8...8...16..52...48...-4

Thank you for claryfying these questions, Harry. And feel free to link to any previous posts you made to avoid repeating them here.

 
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Harryj

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Re: NEW SYSTEM: SINGLE DOZEN
« Reply #267 on: March 31, 2017, 03:32:41 PM »
If you followed that post you would have seen how the flow gradually got worse as the game proceeded. It could have ended in half the time with the same profit. On the other hand playing on showed that the method can hold it's own in adverse conditions.

   I have spent my time playing strong and expensive progressions, but I always came back to short progressions whose length was in balance with their odds. eg. 3 steps for an EC. 5 steps for a dozen. 12+ for a single DS etc. More steps get expensive quickly and recovery becomes difficult.
      Harry
« Last Edit: March 31, 2017, 03:35:59 PM by Harryj »
 

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Re: NEW SYSTEM: SINGLE DOZEN
« Reply #268 on: March 31, 2017, 04:04:58 PM »
Thank you for playing through, HarryJ. I am very interested in a safer progression such as the one you suggested.

Can you explain the terminology of the abbreviations you used in post #265?

Such as

Quote
T3 w n 1. +2

Does T3 mean you target the 3rd dozen? w = win. Don't know what "n" is. Even though nb = No Bet.

Thanks Harry!
« Last Edit: March 31, 2017, 05:49:05 PM by TERMINATOR »
 
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Re: NEW SYSTEM: SINGLE DOZEN
« Reply #269 on: March 31, 2017, 04:35:22 PM »
Hi Terminator,
       Sorry if my posts confuse you. I have been playing this game so long I tend to forget that others have less experience.
   DS are in fact double streets.
  Natural dozens are the 3 on the layout.1-12. .13-24. 25-36.
  Unnatural dozens are 12 numbers that are linked to form a dozen. eg. 2DS.

  Natural DS are 1-6..7-12.. 13-18..19-24..25-.30..31-36
  Unnatural DS are 4-9..10-15..16-21..22-27..28-33.
     Personally I ignore the unnatural DS.

   There are 2 DS of 6 numbers that are paired together to form an unnatural dozen.
    If we pair DS 1-6 with DS 19-24 and DS 7-12 with DS 25-30 and DS 13-18 with DS 31-36 we form 3 unnatural dozens. That have the same odds as the natural dozens. 

        There are 9 possible pairs of DS that are made up of high and low DS. The advantage of this arrangement is that the dozens now have an equal number of red and black numbers odd and even numbers and high and low numbers. Natural dozens 1 and 3 consist of all low numbers or ll high numbers.

      Mark off the numbers (pockets) around the wheel for DS pairs 1(1-6) and 4(19-24) you will see that they correspond to the string of numbers that follows 14. In other words they are the order that they appear around the wheel. You can do the same exercise for the other 2DS pairs. The idea is to show how the numbers are arranged around the wheel. Showing that any result will always be close to one of your numbers. Givi g you a good chance of getting a hit.

   There are 15 possible "dozens" that can be formed by pairing the 6 natural DS. They are.
 (1-2)(1-3)(1-4)(1-5)(1-6)
 (2-3)(2-4)(2-5)(2-6)
 (3-4)(3-5){3-6)
 (4-5)(4-6)
 (5-6)
    If you remove the natural dozens(1-2)(3-4)(5-6) you are left with 12 pairs.
The important thing to remember is that when you form unnatural dozens you can only use each DS once. Otherwise your 3 dozens won't complete the wheel.
      The questions in the later part of your post can all be answered yes. So I hope itvis very clear now. This may seem a little complex, but you need to understand completely if you arevto succeed.
     Regards.....
 Harry
 
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