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jekhb76

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Re: NEW SYSTEM: SINGLE DOZEN
« Reply #240 on: March 30, 2017, 04:04:59 PM »
Just had a Brain Click  ::)

I found out that a D' alembert progression also works very well with Palestis and my alternate system.

after every loss raise 1 unit - after a win step 3 back.

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 also max 7x3 spin session.
this seems like alot, but i take adventage of the fact that 1 out of 4 triggers i have a win on the first spin.and only needs 221 units to play. this is best used for rng. yes i know what you are thinking, but because the sessions can take quite some time to full recovery, it is not sutable with live play. and because the rng computer hasn't a slice idea what you are doin', it is a real winner for now. i just made over 200 euro profit over 4 hour play today with real money.
the first 4 spins (1 2 3 4) are always profit and on the 5th spin you are playing even. and to take in calculation that most sessions end within 5 spins, it works very well. when you have a hit on the 6th level or above, you then search for a new trigger and start that session on step 3. etc etc. always 3 steps back after a win until in profit. 1 step forwars after a loss spin. this js a good profit system with a recovery method build inside.
« Last Edit: March 30, 2017, 04:32:07 PM by jekhb76 »
 
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Rinad

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Re: NEW SYSTEM: SINGLE DOZEN
« Reply #241 on: March 30, 2017, 04:31:41 PM »


  up 1 down 2 is a good idea, as long as you are making a profit at the end.  are you playing your alternate system only now ? just curious about goal you had set if you are still pursuing it.
Rinad
 
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jekhb76

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Re: NEW SYSTEM: SINGLE DOZEN
« Reply #242 on: March 30, 2017, 05:14:32 PM »
hi rinad,

i still playing for my daily goals and still at level 2. not had one loss in the past 3 weeks. so everything is goin' very well up till now. now making 40 bucks a day. if everything stays the same i'm on to lvl 3 (60 euro a day) by the end of next week. I still use Palestis system but i was searching for a combine method because otherwise you are bored very quick. so i switch systems now. palestis system and my alternate together. and hadn't had any problems. (My alternate system stands now over 15000 spin test, so i can use that safely as an alternate to Palestis system) never went past 4 back to back losses. always a hit before spin 12. but when you use the d' alembert system with these two you have a good recovery inside. let's say you have your first hit on spin 9, then you are down 45 chips. with the 9 spin win you are bein' given 27 chips back, wich leaves a debt of -18.
now you go back 2 levels. level 7 is now your first
when hit on the next spin you will recive 21 chips, next up you go another 2 step back to lvl 5 when a hit comes in the next spin you are back in profit again. and you can restart from level 1 again. it doesn't really matter how far you are into the recovery, you always have a change to be in plus again. i've been at a place where was betting 15 chips but recoverd always. it may take a while but you will. try it out and see for your self. i have a 1 spin hit 1/3 of the time around 22 out of 60 sessions. 17 - 2 spin hits
8 - 3 spin hits, 4 - 4 spin hits 3 - 5 spin hits.
2 - 6 spin hits. 1 - 7 spin hits 1 - 8 spin hits 0 - 9 spin hits and only 2 - 10 spin hits
never above 10. but i'm sure that will happen at some point.
« Last Edit: March 30, 2017, 05:25:36 PM by jekhb76 »
 
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Reyth

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Re: NEW SYSTEM: SINGLE DOZEN
« Reply #243 on: March 30, 2017, 06:36:49 PM »
Just had a Brain Click  ::)

I found out that a D' alembert progression also works very well with Palestis and my alternate system.

after every loss raise 1 unit - after a win step 3 back.

Wow grats!  I am a huge fan!!  This is the approach of the IDG.  I have had some significant success using this approach with a single Dozen (12x7 system).  I think my problem there rose from being too aggressive on recovery in the face of successive drawdowns.

Do you think it can be improved by shortening the progression? 

Sorry if you are repeating yourself, but what happens if you miss on the last step, being down slightly over 220 units again?
 
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Rinad

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Re: NEW SYSTEM: SINGLE DOZEN
« Reply #244 on: March 30, 2017, 06:52:02 PM »


  good job Eddy

your determination is what you have going for yourself.
word of caution; careful not to slowly deviate to uncharted territory and then wonder what the heck happen to my bankroll. (ahah).  been doing just that in the past. your zeal can sometime make you magnetize to play something different and you fall into a quicksand type situation that you cant get out off.
keep on your good work, you are doing great.
Rinad
 
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Re: NEW SYSTEM: SINGLE DOZEN
« Reply #245 on: March 30, 2017, 07:47:40 PM »
??? What went wrong? I reached the 10th Level ???
I know, I know. Not again! (Why does this seem to only happen to me)?

Hello everybody, in order to help everyone (including myself), I am currently writing a step by step demonstration on how to play Palestis’ Method, since there has been so much confusion in this thread. I thought the best way to demonstrate it is by playing through a few games, and explaining my reasons for each decision I made. So that the reader can follow along in a clear and precise way.

I do not want to say anything in this demonstration that may be wrong.

Palestis, you mentioned basically TWO methods of play. Both depend on what happens AFTER a streak of dozens.

1) The safer way, where we ALWAYS skip the first trigger after a streak, and play the second trigger.

2) The bold way, where we always PLAY the first trigger after a streak, PROVIDING the dominant streak does not appear in the first trigger.

I was in the process of doing a walk through using both methods. The first 2 games went very well. However, this 3rd game requires a closer examination. I play the SAME EXACT SPINS for BOTH methods, and compare the results. I am playing a very unbiased game, and I am not looking forward for whether or not I would win or lose. I play the same way throughout each game. (i.e., after a zero, I restart the count, then I ALWAYS do this for every zero in the same game.)

Keep in mind, I have a stop-loss of 500 units. Each game goes for 200 spins.

To give you a summery of this 3rd game:

FIRST METHOD:
Always SKIPPING the first trigger after a streak:

Highest Level Reached = 4th level
Highest Bet Made = 8 units
Largest Debt = -14 units


There were a lot of weird spins in this game, but the conservative method did very well. The highest bet at risk was only 8 units! And I was never more than 14 units in the hole at any point.

Now, compare this SAME, EXACT game to this one:

SECOND METHOD:
Always PLAYING the first trigger after a streak, providing the dominant dozen not not appear in the first trigger.

Highest Level Reached = 10th level
Highest Bet Made = 528 units
Largest Debt = -2538 units


This seems IMPOSSIBLE. I have detailed notes as to my important decisions. (I intentionally IGNORED my 500 unit max loss in this 1 game to see how far this would go up the progression before going back to level 1).

I played BOTH games according to my current understanding of Palestis’s Posts. I have examined Paelstis's attached games of his play-thru also, and I think I am doing this correctly. IF I made some kind of mistake in the SECOND METHOD, can someone please point it out? I’ve gone over it several times, and I cannot see where I made my mistake.

BOTH games are attached below.

I use Excel. Since I have my explanation next to most decisons, can someone please add THEIR thoughts to my notes in Excel next to my decisions? Or maybe post them in this thread as to how my thinking process was in error?

FOR CLARIFICATION, this game requires an understanding of Palestis’s Progression (which is displayed in the top left of each document). I don’t comment on the amount I bet, only WHERE I chose to place my bets.

The “BET” column is the TARGET dozen that will be bet for THAT spin.
The “DOZ” column is how much lost or won for each bet placed.
The “$D” is a tally of the current amount won or lost after each WIN, as the game progresses.

Thank you for your help.

PS. Sorry to be the only one who is posting these losses, but so far, every time I've done it something came out of it that benefitted everyone.
« Last Edit: March 30, 2017, 11:01:11 PM by TERMINATOR »
 
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Reyth

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Re: NEW SYSTEM: SINGLE DOZEN
« Reply #246 on: March 30, 2017, 08:01:23 PM »
I don't think any of us will mind negative results posted, great job!

I think one question will be, "how likely is it to get similar results from the SKIP method and how does that compare to the likelihood of the NON-SKIP method?".

Excellent work Term!!  Your skills are most valuable!!!
 
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kav

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Re: NEW SYSTEM: SINGLE DOZEN
« Reply #247 on: March 30, 2017, 09:15:05 PM »
Excellent work Term, kudos!
 
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jekhb76

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Re: NEW SYSTEM: SINGLE DOZEN
« Reply #248 on: March 30, 2017, 09:22:55 PM »

Just 1 session with real money on Online RNG table.

I wanted to show you all the D' alembert recovery method, but i can't get my alternate system to loose  :-[

* = Triggers
W = Win
Bankroll 500 units
Session Target: 25 units / +26 units Won.
Playing Time: 22:52 - 23:19

Spin 001   5
Spin 002   21
Spin 003   29
Spin 004   34
Spin 005   5  *   Trigger 1   
Spin 006   6  *   Trigger 2   500.00
Spin 007   1  W   -1   +3     502.00
----------------------------------------------
Spin 008   1
Spin 009   30
Spin 010   36
Spin 011   13
Spin 012   12 *   Trigger 1
Spin 013   29
Spin 014   10 *   Trigger 2   502.00
Spin 015   22   -1                 501.00
Spin 016   20   -2                 499.00
Spin 017   35   -3                 496.00
Spin 018   8   -4   +12          504.00
----------------------------------------------
Spin 019   31
Spin 020   14 *   Trigger 1
Spin 021   35
Spin 022   11
Spin 023   16 *   Trigger 2   504.00
Spin 024   16 W   -1   +3     506.00
----------------------------------------------
Spin 025   27 *   Trigger 1
Spin 026   27 *   Trigger 2   506.00
Spin 027   28 W   -1   +3     508.00
----------------------------------------------
Spin 028   7
Spin 029   27
Spin 030   18
Spin 031   3
Spin 032   8
Spin 033   32 *   Trigger 1
Spin 034   23
Spin 035   3
Spin 036   32 *   Trigger 2   508.00
Spin 037   31 W   -1   +3     510.00
----------------------------------------------
Spin 038   30
Spin 039   7
Spin 040   20
Spin 041   16 *   Trigger 1
Spin 042   11
Spin 043   24
Spin 044   17 *   Trigger 2   510.00
Spin 045   7   -1                   509.00
Spin 046   27   -2                 507.00
Spin 047   34   -3                 504.00
Spin 048   14 W   -4   +12   512.00
----------------------------------------------
Spin 049   12
Spin 050   36
Spin 051   17
Spin 052   7
Spin 053   26
Spin 054   21 *   Trigger 1
Spin 055   21 *   Trigger 2   512.00
Spin 056   22 W   -1   +3     514.00
----------------------------------------------
Spin 057   26
Spin 058   9
Spin 059   5
Spin 060   31
Spin 061   20
Spin 062   27 *   Trigger 1
Spin 063   7
Spin 064   25 *   Trigger 2   514.00
Spin 065   13   -1                 513.00
Spin 066   11   -2                 511.00
Spin 067   34 W   -3   +9     517.00
----------------------------------------------
Spin 068   12
Spin 069   23
Spin 070   2  *   Trigger 1
Spin 071   2  *   Trigger 2   517.00
Spin 072   11 W   -1   +3    519.00
----------------------------------------------
Spin 073   34
Spin 074   28
Spin 075   13
Spin 076   20 *   Trigger 1
Spin 077   20 *   Trigger 2   519.00
Spin 078   4   -1                   518.00
Spin 079   13 W   -2   +6     522.00
----------------------------------------------
Spin 080   19
Spin 081   15 *   Trigger 1
Spin 082   25
Spin 083   14 *   Trigger 2   522.00
Spin 084   9   -1                   521.00
Spin 085   5   -2                   519.00
Spin 086   31   -3                 516.00
Spin 087   21 W   -4   +12   524.00
----------------------------------------------
Spin 088   3  *   Trigger 1
Spin 089   33
Spin 090   2  *   Trigger 2   524.00
Spin 091   11 W   -1   +3    526.00
---------------------------------------------- +26 units Won - End of Session!
« Last Edit: March 30, 2017, 09:27:18 PM by jekhb76 »
 
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jekhb76

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Re: NEW SYSTEM: SINGLE DOZEN
« Reply #249 on: March 30, 2017, 09:49:06 PM »
To Reyth:

Your question was; what will happen when we lost the last step (Step 21)?
Well for one, i don't think i will ever see a session that hasn't had a hit before reaching step 21!
That's the same as 7 back to back losses, a one in a lifetime event. Of course it can happen, it's roulette we are talking about, but the odds of it, are one in a few million spins.
But when we have our first hit on step 21, we have bet 231 chips. but we get a return of 63 chips. we are then down at 168 chips. We then move 3 steps backward and start our new trigger bet at step 18. assume we hit the first spin we are then at -132 chips we continue again at step 15. etc etc etc. it will be along run, and can take a few hours before we are back in profit again, but with 1/3 1 spin hits, it is possible. But again, it's highly unlikly that you reach step 21 without a hit. i've tested and played with real money my alternate system for over 10.000 spin now all together and never reached step 12 without a hit (4 back to back losses) step 10 is the highest up till now, and never lost a session.
 
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palestis

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Re: NEW SYSTEM: SINGLE DOZEN
« Reply #250 on: March 31, 2017, 12:51:54 AM »
??? What went wrong? I reached the 10th Level ???
I know, I know. Not again! (Why does this seem to only happen to me)?

TERMINATOR
You gonna put me back to work, but I don't mind.
I can only process the numbers manually. I don't know how to import them from excel and make a neat list of the numbers like the one I did by hand in a single sheet. Anyway it doesn't matter.
To be honest this session is the worst session I have ever seen.
But not 10 levels lost. ( that would be 10x3=30 lost spins in a row).
I picked the 1srt trigger that came after a streak with the exception of the trigger that had as target the majority dozen in the streak above it.
I only found 2 level -3 losses and 2 level-2 losses, and another 1    1-2/3 level where the first 2 results were repeats of the dominant dozen in the trigger.
But it was clear from the beginning that those numbers were weird.
If I was in that roulette, using my personal judgment, I would've run as far away from that roulette as I could.
But for testing purposes we can't run away.
Nevertheless it wasn't anywhere near as bad as you found it to be. Certainly a far cry from 10 back to back losses.
At the end, after this madness with those numbers from hell  ( for this system anyway),
there were 7 consecutive hits. To make up for the mess.
Anyway if that's the worst session I will run into,  it's not all that bad. It's certainly better than running into 5 consecutive lost EC bets with Martingale, ( which happens quite often), where recovery would be almost impossible.
The second level-3 loss you see 14-14-34-19-17-33-15 you notice 34 separating 4 M dozens, then 17,15, becomes part of the trigger.  Though you can't make a list of all red flags,( because it will be more confusing than helpful),  some situations require basic common sense.
 Yes we are watching out for consecutive  dozens, but when there are plenty of them separated by one different dozen it rings some bells. We have to be able to observe quite a few XYZ dozens , but in this case they seem to have been rare.  That was the overall summarizing red flag.
In general when you notice things like that you get away from that roulette.
Easy to spot it in a live roulette, not as easy in testing or online.
The bottom line is that I didn't see a level -10 loss (that would be 30 spins lost in a row. Right?)

 
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Re: NEW SYSTEM: SINGLE DOZEN
« Reply #251 on: March 31, 2017, 01:35:58 AM »
Quote
I don't know how to import them from excel and make a neat list of the numbers like the one I did by hand in a single sheet.

Well, you just start at the FIRST number in the column. Place the mouse pointer at the first number, then left click the mouse, and hold it pressed. DRAG the mouse pointer all the way to the last number. This will HIGHLIGHT all the spin numbers. then let the mouse button go. Then you just right-click anywhere in the highlighted column, and choose "COPY." then paste it into  your document.

You can also highlight the NEXT column at the same time, so you can easily see which dozen they are in.

Quote
The bottom line is that I didn't see a level -10 loss (that would be 30 spins lost in a row. Right?)

No, not 30 spins in a row. Did you not look at my game and all my notes? I was hoping you could comment on what I did wrong after looking at my notes. Because everything I did was according to your instructions.

But, to answer your question, during that level 10 loss, I had 3 wins, then a 4th win to bring me back to level 1.

When I have time later, I will look at your game you played. Maybe I will post both of our games side by side, in an actual POST, with my explanations of why I did what I did. And you can clarify why you did the moves that you did?

I will ask any questions I have in that post. Okay? Thanks.

 
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palestis

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Re: NEW SYSTEM: SINGLE DOZEN
« Reply #252 on: March 31, 2017, 03:34:22 AM »
@ Terminator:
I always considered  that each level is the 3 spins played after the trigger. So when you say a 10 level loss I take it as 30 spins.
And you confirmed that a while ago when you said that you encountered a 7 level loss, and I asked you if that was 21 spins. And you said Yes.
Evidently when you say 10 level loss you mean 10 lost spins in succession. Is that correct?
So that we mean the same thing when we talk about  "levels" Traditionally a level is considered to be the number of spins  you play after a trigger.  If in a sysetm a level is 5 spins after a trigger, 2 levels are 10 spins.
I frequently  have said that the max. losses I encountered so far, are 3 back to back trigger  losses.  or 9 spins. Though  it's rare.
 If you worry about  the 10 level loss and you mean 10 spins, we are not too far apart. I have found 9. ( that is 3 back to back trigger losses).
I didn't study your excel sheet, because you include the progression and I get  a little confused when too many things are together.  But it's not your fault.  Indeed, it looks very professional. But I am inclined  to keep things simple.
My long time testings don't include any progression.
All I am  testing for is to find out the max. number of back to back losses.
As long as they stay 3 levels and under ( that is 9 spins),  any progression can be handled with my B/R. With no risk whatsoever.
It's when I start seeing 4+ back to back losses ( 12 + consecutive spins),  and on a relatively frequent basis,  I will worry about the progression. But in that case,  I would probably throw the system in the garbage.
But so far I haven't seen 4 back to back losses. And that alone keeps me going.
 
As soon as you confirm that a 10 level loss is just 10 spins, the confusion is finally resolved.
PS:
I think I know what led to the confusion aside the word "level"
If you lose 3 back to back triggers, ( 9 spins), and on the next rigger you win on the 3rd spin. I don't see it as an 11 level loss (9 already lost plus the first 2 spins on the next trigger).
Because I take each trigger as a separate entity. Even if it wins on the 3rd spin I consider the entire trigger as a total win. Therefore the first 2 lost spins don't count towards any previous consecutive trigger losses.
Does that clear the confusion?
« Last Edit: March 31, 2017, 03:41:07 AM by palestis »
 
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Re: NEW SYSTEM: SINGLE DOZEN
« Reply #253 on: March 31, 2017, 04:26:16 AM »
Quote
I always considered  that each level is the 3 spins played after the trigger. So when you say a 10 level loss I take it as 30 spins.

Hi Palestis. I never said I had a 10 level loss. I said I reached the 10th level. The 10th level being: 528-528-1056. I am using the definition of "levels" that you defined earlier in your posts:

LEVEL 1: 1-1-2
LEVEL 2: 2-2-4
LEVEL 3: 4-4-8      
LEVEL 4: 8-8-16   

To Clarify, using the example above, if I lose 8 bets in a row, and WIN on the 9th bet, that would mean the 8 unit bet on level 3 was WON. However, I cannot drop back down to level 1 yet, because I am still at a loss. So you said to repeat level 3 in this case. So, I would make a 4-4-8 bet (level 3), and if I lose all 3 of those bets, move up to level 4. And if I win a bet in level 4, I keep repeating level 4 until a tie or a win, then drop back down to level 1 when I reach that goal.

So, for the above, I would say I reached the 4th level, even though I had a win(s) while climbing to the 4th level.

If you look at the Excel sheet for Game #3 that I played, the 10 level loss began on spin 94 (it's actually spin 90, but in Excel, under the spin column, it's 94). There were 17 losses in a row. Then a win at level 6 (spin 132). Then 13 more losses in a row. Then 3 wins in a row, each at over 1000 units each. Which put me in profit and I dropped back to level 1.

I looked at the game you did, GAME #3, and the first 2 triggers you used do not line up with what you taught me in previous posts. I will address your first 2 triggers in my next post, and explain where my first trigger was. I guess we can start there.

« Last Edit: March 31, 2017, 02:22:20 PM by TERMINATOR »
 
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jekhb76

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Re: NEW SYSTEM: SINGLE DOZEN
« Reply #254 on: March 31, 2017, 05:13:38 AM »
to Terminator,

17 and 13 spin losses in a row!
Are you sure about the 17 losses? that means that you are in level 6 and just lost 5 back to back losses !!!!!! I can't look at your excel sheet right now because i'm on my phone, but when i have the time i will look into it. a 4 back to back loss os also very rare if you take all the red flags into consideration. there must have been something very wrong. i will try and help.
 
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