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MickyP

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Testing systems
« on: November 11, 2017, 08:50:32 AM »
Testing systems with spins from RNG spin data vs live wheel data.

RNG numbers are influenced by the wagers placed and are therefore not a true representation of the live game. With RNG you are playing against a computer program not against a wheel and ball spun by a human hand.

Systems should be tested for both RNG and live wheels alike. If this is done the live wheel tests will undoubtedly preform better than RNG.

Will someone please prove me wrong.


 

Reyth

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Re: Testing systems
« Reply #1 on: November 11, 2017, 09:50:41 AM »
An RNG is not influenced by wagers; neither a fair RNG nor a fair live wheel (which is a RNG).
 

MickyP

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Re: Testing systems
« Reply #2 on: November 11, 2017, 10:03:32 AM »
I might have my shoelaces mixed up; with RNG I'm referring to electronic/computer based number generation.

I've read about machines catching up on system play and the numbers waged on all fall asleep.

I don't have much experience with electronic roulette but am sceptical by what I've read on this and other forums.

Please educate me.
 

Reyth

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Re: Testing systems
« Reply #3 on: November 11, 2017, 03:43:00 PM »
I am about to be flame roasted for saying what I am going to say because most people on this forum play B&M casinos; they are the REAL roulette gamblers, in the flesh and I respect them.

Roulette is such a difficult game and it seems like it is a superstition magnet.  Unfortunately casinos throughout the centuries have not helped by proveably cheating.

Can an online RNG be programmed to respond to a user's bets and make them lose?  Yes.  Is it a universal fact about all roulette RNG's?  No.  Can an online RNG be fair and truly random?  Yes.  Can we personally test an online RNG to see if it is truly random?  Yes.

The best solution is to find someone who consistently wins on an RNG and what casinos they play at.
« Last Edit: November 11, 2017, 03:48:49 PM by Reyth »
 

McCoy

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Re: Testing systems
« Reply #4 on: November 11, 2017, 04:04:38 PM »
If an RNG isn't fixed then outcomes should not depend on the wagers placed, but I would advise testing using actual spins (there are plenty available on this site) because it's possible that fun play on a casino's RNG is preprogrammed to give you good results, although I have no hard evidence that this is true, just a suspicion. As to which RNGs are fixed and which are not, your guess is as good as mine. 
 
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Reyth

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Re: Testing systems
« Reply #5 on: November 11, 2017, 04:34:32 PM »
Here are results from the same RNG casino; one is real money and the other is fun mode:



Can you tell which is which?  They both are the "worst sequences" that I have encountered betting a single SU number.

So for me, I am confident in my results using a casino RNG in either mode.

Of course everyone knows that fun mode RNG can be a win feeder; I can even link to one.
« Last Edit: November 11, 2017, 04:42:57 PM by Reyth »
 

McCoy

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Re: Testing systems
« Reply #6 on: November 11, 2017, 06:08:13 PM »
Which casino is this Reyth? The problem is that if using a progression it only needs a few extra losses generated by the casino to wipe you out, and those few losses wouldn't show that anything was wrong from a statistical point of view, necessarily.
 

MickyP

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Re: Testing systems
« Reply #7 on: November 11, 2017, 07:09:49 PM »
Thanks for sticking your neck out Reyth. I think it is fair to say not all RNG machines are programmed to milk the player. It has also been noted that B/M casinos have specialised croupiers who are sent in to upset winning streaks and reclaim the "house edge". There are so many variables to content with yet we dismiss unfair influence as random.

If a system can withstand the randomness (fair or not) through vigorous testing then it will surely produce wins in normal play.

 
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dobbelsteen

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Re: Testing systems
« Reply #8 on: November 11, 2017, 08:59:27 PM »
The different internet casinos use the software of different software providers. There are many RNGs. It is useless to compare the roulette from Microgaming, Netent, Playtech or others. It is a certainty that the RNG of Excel is not manipulated. I trust the results of my Excel roulette programs .
I trust also the roulette devices of my B&M casino.
 
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Reyth

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Re: Testing systems
« Reply #9 on: November 11, 2017, 11:37:47 PM »
The problem is that if using a progression it only needs a few extra losses generated by the casino to wipe you out, and those few losses wouldn't show that anything was wrong from a statistical point of view, necessarily.

You are right, because the odds are never 100%. 

I know the paranoia.  I have caught myself suspecting cheating because of the savage way in which I was losing only to analyze the sequence to find everything in accord with expectation.

If we beat roulette, our wins will surpass the effect of only "a few extra losses".  I think eventually we will notice a discrepancy.

One of the casinos is called 1centroulette.

It is a certainty that the RNG of Excel is not manipulated. I trust the results of my Excel roulette programs.

I feel the same way!  The results of my computer testing have consistently been in accord with B&M results.
« Last Edit: November 11, 2017, 11:40:28 PM by Reyth »
 
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McCoy

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Re: Testing systems
« Reply #10 on: November 12, 2017, 09:25:15 AM »
One of the casinos is called 1centroulette.

Thanks. There doesn't seem to be any information on this casino online, not even an 'About' page on their website. Do you know where are they based? They've been around for a quite a while though, since 2003, so I suppose that's a good sign.
 
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Reyth

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Re: Testing systems
« Reply #11 on: November 12, 2017, 05:58:42 PM »
I have heard that they are located in Israel.  All I can tell you is that I have tested their casino extensively in fun mode and real money and find the results fair.  Additionally, as I have said, I know someone that consistently wins in their casino.

They definitely are not a "mainstream" casino and are not reviewed by the standard "review" sites.

I have other casinos that I would consider that ARE in the mainstream and I would choose them because of their positive reviews (payout when requested) and low min. bet & high table limits.
« Last Edit: November 12, 2017, 06:05:29 PM by Reyth »
 
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